Chivalry and Other Romantic Behaviors

From Philippine newspaper The Inquirer comes Leica Carpo’s column about what books turned her onto reading:

I could say it was F. Scott Fitzgerald’s “Great Gatsby,” Dickens’ “Great Expectations” or even Margaret Mitchell’s “Gone with the Wind” that turned me onto reading. But that would be a lie. I must confess that historical novels were my secret passion and I was a Barbara Cartland girl first and foremost.

Right there with you, Leica. Only instead of Fitzgerald, F. Scott or Mitchell, Margaret, it was “High, Sweet Valley” and, before that, Beverly Cleary that brought me into reading.

After ruminating on the Cartland oeuvre, Carpo states, “I no longer read Cartland novels or expect “happily ever afters,” but to this day I don’t expect chivalry — I demand it.”

And then the article ends (BOO) but with enough of a statement to make me wonder, have romance novels influenced the way I view relationships, and specifically my own marriage?


Every romance author gets asked about how they research their sex scenes, or probably has to deal with at least one lascivious comment about how their husbands must loooove that they write romance novels, nudge nudge wink wink. Yeah. That’s not what I mean. I’m thinking more about the construction and maintenance of relationships in terms of working toward a happy ending – has reading about that subject in my fiction influenced my real life relationships? Probably.

Some folks like to dismiss romance as unrealistic, and while I’m not a tycoon’s virgin mistress (eww) or a daughter of a viscount being wooed by a rakish Duke (woo!), I do think that healthy relationships that are loving and supportive and feature bombastic sex are attainable. They’re not easy, but they’re attainable, if one realizes that they take work. Hence I appreciate and savor even more those romance novels that feature relationships wherein the protagonists have to do some serious work, even some backbone-and-balls growing, to earn their happy ending, because happiness can be a lot of work.

I’d love to ask Hubby this question, whether he thinks my reading romance novels have affected my approach to our marriage, but he’d have to lie on the floor laughing for about half an hour because that is so not a question I can ask him without taking a serious amount of shit for bringing up such a doofy non-dude question. What about you – do you think your expectations of the relationships in your life are shaped in any way by the romances you read?

And seriously, if you’re a daughter of a viscount, what do you think of all these titled heroines and heroes running around all over Romancelandia? Serious overpopulation, no?


General Bitching...

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  1. kelly says:

    i’m only popping out of the woodwork because my roomie said this to me today when i was reading a ruth wind book:

    “that’s why you’ll never have a bf.  you have unrealistic expectations.”

    of course, when my expectation is to have a guy who isn’t freaked out by my kookiness, i don’t think that’s asking to much, is it?

    fear29- i fear i’ll be 29 before i finally get laid.

  2. Michele says:

    To me chivalry is synonymous with respect so that’s something I feel every woman should demand. I think a Happily-Ever-After is hard yes, but achievable with a strong foundation. And when I read romance novels I want to believe that strong foundation has been established and will continue on.

    And as for the answer to the last question: lack of birth control?

  3. rebyj says:

    What about you – do you think your expectations of the relationships in your life are shaped in any way by the romances you read?

    expectations? maybe when I was 15 and reading harlequins, I thought there was a handsome billionaire out there waiting for me somewhere. Imagine my surprise when I ended up married to a dirt poor very distant cousin for 18 years.

    Relationships shaped? absolutely not, reading romance does 2 things..

    1. keeps me outta the man’s way so he can watch history channel uninterrupted.

    2.Gives us both a laugh when I read hot passages out loud to him and we try to figure out what kind of boneless acrobat could actually do some of the love scenes.

    I read probably 10 books a week, our relationship is more affected by fighting about the tv show CHEATER’S than by romance novels.

  4. ksquard says:

    Oh absolutely, in the sense that from a young age romance novels inspired me to look for a man who’s my equal, who gets my zaniness and complements it, and not settle for some boob just to say I have a man – despite the rape fantasies of the 80s that I cut my teeth on.

    I too prefer the novels where the couple have to work at their HEA and do some real growing b/c despite the escapism inherent, I believe, in reading, I want something I can relate to and perhaps be inspired by emotionally and possibly practically. And I’ve always known I’d never be a billionarie virgin bride. Plus, I respect such characters more than others and feel they are more full-bodied and relatable, which increases the pleasure of the read.

    Have romance novels influenced my relationships? Absolutely. Thank God for it.

  5. Esri Rose says:

    There are so many variables in this question, plus a heaping helping of chicken versus egg. Do romances shape our world view, or do we read them because they reflect our world view? Or do we read them partially because they reflect some things and partially because they’re entertaining escapism? I mean, there was a time when I thought androids were the height of hot, but I didn’t look for a guy with a key in his back. Was I already married to a logical guy who needed his emotions drawn out? Yup. Do I get all hot and bothered over androids anymore. No. Does my husband still need his emotions drawn out? No. I think that’s a case of reflection, there.

    I’ll say this. I read BUNCHES of Cartland when I was in high school and college, but I didn’t hook up with guys like those heroes. Instead, I married a guy who shares a lot of characteristics with my dad.

  6. closetcrafter says:

    I think HEA’s are relative and I don’t think the final call in real life is made until years later.

    Romancelandia is definitely overpopulated, and yet, it never causes me to stay away.  How about you? I think my life contains a healthy dose of unattractive, unwanted realism, however, I definitely got my HEA, such as it is. Romancelandia has definitely kept me interested in interpersonal relations between my husband and I and although there would be a lot of floor rolling laughter if my husband was approached on the subject, he would have to agree and admit to the number of times he has perused my books and/or requested an out loud performance and certain “passages”.

    I cut my teeth on the twisted love affairs as described in John Irving’s books, most notably, The Hotel New Hampshire.  Love is love in all its many forms.

  7. Georgette Heyer drew me in to romance novels. I’ve been a reader as long as I can remember. But Georgette Heyer was my gateway author for moving into the larger world of romance novels. I’ve read and will read just about anything now, some for their literary content, some for their erotic content, sweetness, meanness, oh my just anything.

  8. Laura says:

    I doubt my reading has influenced my relationships except that in those times where I can’t find anything I enjoy reading, I can be a complete beeatch.  Seriously…when my reading and/or writing are going well, our house works fairly well.  When one or both are rocky, the house sadly lacks harmony. 

    problem88 – hmm…I can only think of 87 problems in my life….

  9. Ros says:

    Well, as the slightly frumpy second daughter of the 14th Earl of Cheshire…

    Oh, all right.  Not really.  But in my head, definitely.  😉

  10. Gail Dayton says:

    Hmm. Nope, at least not originally. Because I didn’t discover romance novels till well into my marriage. I had kids in school… I think I read romances because they reflected my life. I was 19 and mad at my boyfriend when I had an epiphany. (while riding my bicycle)

    I deserved better.

    I deserved to be treated decently, honestly and with respect. And I wasn’t going to put up with any crap. So when I dated, the guys who had those qualities were the keepers. The fella and I are coming up on 32 years this month…

    And maybe that’s why I write the characters and the relationships that I do. I do tend to write good-guy heroes, rather than bad boys. I love the bad boys, but I can’t write them

  11. Miranda says:

    After I got over expecting orgasms to to transport me to an alternate reality where our souls fused, we got along a lot better 😉

    Seriously, I think people get bogged down on what marriage ‘should’ be, whether they get the idea from romance novels or Ladies’ Home Journal, or your parents. People think that the state of being married will change the type of people you and your spouse are. The strain of living up to whatever ideal anyone has, is where I think the ‘work’ comes in.

    We’ve never really had to ‘work’ at our marriage. We were friends long before we started dating. We care about each other’s happiness. We accept each other as we are and don’t force change.

    Outside circumstances have been stressful. I dealt with my mother’s cancer for 5 years, and especially the first half of last year, the strain was great. I don’t think mr.miranda and I had sex more than about twice between January and May. He never pushed me and was always there when I needed a shoulder to cry on or someone to drive me to the hospital. I’ll take that over ‘chivalry’ any day.

    I have supported him when he quit a job he absolutely hated, but I didn’t resent him or anything.

  12. JaimeK says:

    I remember the first romance book I ever read when I was 14 was Palamino by Danielle Steele – I was hooked.  I think no matter how much you grow up there is a part of you that looks for happily ever after – the difference is the books (usually, not always) make it look easy.

    Sarah – if it is any consolation my husband is on the ground rolling around laughing because I dared to ask…so there you go…I feel your pain!

  13. Nicole says:

    Hmm…my husband would probably laugh too.  He does quite like the romance reading in that he thinks anything that gets me thinking about sex is a good thing. Of course, that’s probably true of all men.

    I certainly never thought reading romances gave me a skewed perception of relationships, though.  It’s fiction!  But a little romance in real life never hurts.

  14. Wryhag says:

    Every romance author gets asked about how they research their sex scenes, or probably has to deal with at least one lascivious comment about how their husbands must loooove that they write romance novels, nudge nudge wink wink.

    An especially problematic question/comment for straight women who write gay erotic romance.

    “head83”  HARDYHARHAR

  15. Zelda Hackenbush says:

    I like this blog.

  16. shaina says:

    most definately. i’m 20 years old, and have been reading romances since i was 11 or so. and i most definately have been influenced by all the good—and especially the BAD—relationships i’ve read about. when i give my friends relationship advice? it probably came from a book, since i don’t have that much experience. and i’m a virgin by choice (which, luckily, my bf of five months respects), because i read so many books where the heroine had a horrible first time, and i want to wait til i’m absolutely sure it’s perfectly right.
    so yeah. i’ve been influenced a ton, the way i think about relationships in general, the way i see my own relationships…and also, like kelly said, i kind of do have unrealistic expectations. it’s kind of a problem. oh well.

    spamword: looked73. I DID NOT! TAKE THAT BACK!

  17. Rebecca says:

    My gateways authors were Andre Norton, Patricia McKillip, Patricia Wrede, C. J. Cherryh, and Georgette Heyer.

    I loved the Witch World series. Norton created characters that had dignity and were able to negotiate the perils of being on the road, on the quest with such aplomb and poise. I loved the characters too, for knowing so much about themselves. I envied them.

    I only read Cartland at my grandma’s ‘cause that’s all she had and it was there (boredom can force a person to extremes). I never had much respect for the ingenues and felt that the guys were jerks.

    I was always happy to get back home and cleanse my reading palate with a book by Norton, et. al.

    Quality. All of them.

  18. Tina C. says:

    Some folks like to dismiss romance as unrealistic, and while I’m not a tycoon’s virgin mistress (eww) or a daughter of a viscount being wooed by a rakish Duke (woo!), I do think that healthy relationships that are loving and supportive and feature bombastic sex are attainable.

    I agree that healthy, loving, supportive, bombastic sex-filled relationships are possible, but I’m not so sure that the majority of romances portray them.  This is especially true with the romances from the late-70’s, early-80’s (as we saw when I guest-reviewed Devil’s Embrace).  Sure, when we re-visit said couples in later books of a particular series, we see them all loving and healthy (and the alpha males are particularly doting).  But usually, in the books featuring them, we see lack of communication to epic levels, suspicion, distrust, insecurity, and/or any other exploitable relationship issue that can drive the dramatic tension and keep them from consummating their relationship on an emotional level. (Even if they are having wild-monkey-can’t-keep-from-melting-under-his-punishing-OW!!-kisses-even-though-I’m-sure-he-is-seducing-me-to-get-back-at-my-father-can’t-stop-touching-her-and-punishing-her-with-my-kisses-even-though-I’m-sure-she-kicked-my-brother’s-dog-and-probably-stole-the-secret-plans-sex the whole time.)  Mind you, I’m not complaining about the dramatic tension and people do frequently have to work out their communication issues and their personal emotional baggage to move forward to a good relationship.  It just often seems that there is rarely any real relationship work done in most romances other than a baring of the soul conversation or two.  Usually it’s, “I realized that I love you and want you despite all of this other stuff and that instantly makes it all better and I will feel insecurity and suspicion no more.” 

    That said, I really enjoy reading romances, among other things, and I have to say that I’ll find myself thinking, “I want to read a good/fluffy/paranormal/etc romance next” when I go to the TBR pile and I’ve never once specifically thought, “I think I want to read a sword and sorcery fantasy next”. 

    I’m thinking more about the construction and maintenance of relationships in terms of working toward a happy ending – has reading about that subject in my fiction influenced my real life relationships?

    I can’t say that it has.  I’ve learned how to be in a good, healthy, supportive relationships from many hard years of experience of what NOT to do and who NOT to be with, from a couple of years of therapy, and from non-fiction reading on what it takes to make a relationship work.  Fiction can have many elements of reality but if it was 100% realistic, there would be far too many boring errands, getting stuck in traffic, and arguing with your son about why he can’t wear the same t-shirt to school 3 days in a row.

  19. Kismet says:

    I definitely think that romance novels influenced the way I look at relationships. For one, I learned that you don’t have to like the person sometimes, but you can still love them. I learned that being yourself is best, but just being stubborn and refusing to work with the other person is not.

    This may sound silly, but they were also a good bit of my sex education. My mom’s version of “the talk” was both painfully embarrassing and non-informative, and the school SE program was even more full of misinformation than Romances (sad, I know). But the biggest thing for me is that being a preachers kid, I was sort of raised with a sexuality is bad vibe (not sex in general, just outside of marriage, and forget any kind of experimentation). Romance novels were actually key in helping me accept that part of myself, and helping me realize that normality is subjective.

  20. Anna says:

    I agree with ksguard when she says

    Oh absolutely, in the sense that from a young age romance novels inspired me to look for a man who’s my equal, who gets my zaniness and complements it, and not settle for some boob just to say I have a man

    However, reading romance novels while I was young did make me think it was all easy and fated to be when it was the ‘right’ person.  I also think some of my traditional gender role expectations (in terms of what a man I date “should” do) likely come from reading about all those Alpha heroes.  (I try to ignore those expectations… but it’s not always easy to do so.)

  21. shaina says:

    oh, yeah, kismet, about the sex ed. TOTALLY. i may be innocent in terms of experience, but i have read things my friends cannot even imagine. lol. i just hope that when i get to that point i can remember everything!

  22. Lindsay says:

    This question has been asked for quite some time; Janice Radway asked readers about it in the early 80’s. The answer she most often got was “Of course it has altered the way I look at men and relationships.” Speaking from personal experience, I have to agree. Sure it altered my perceptions a bit. But do I expect completely unrealistic things as romance readers are often accused? The answer is a resounding “no.”
    I, too, really enjoy books where the characters realize that it is going to take a serious effort to make things work with another person. One book that comes to mind in Kat Martin’s The Dream. It’s not perfect, but I love the way the hero makes an effort to change his ways. The heroine is a librarian and he hasn’t read a book in ages. But he picks up a Clancy or Grisham (something of that sort) novel and gives it a try so they might have more in common. It’s a little thing and yet it’s so much more.

  23. orangehands says:

    I can’t seem to think of one romance book that I would want to emulate in my real life, even the ones that have heroes I love or heroines I would lvoe to be.

    I don’t really think most romances show the hard work that goes into having a healthy, strong relationship. (I do, however, think they show why it’s very important to have an open line of communication- for fuck’s sake, ask her/him instead of making pointless- AND WRONG- assumptions!)

    But I figured out what I would want in a relationship with someone else before I started reading romance books, and I started reading them young. The relationships around me showed the big do’s and don’t’s (WTH?), and my list (which is pretty damn basic) hasn’t changed much.

    As for your last question- there’s really only a hundred or so, and they just have split personalities.
    – Viscount Daughter # 4, 58, 102, 168, 214, and 327

  24. rascoagogo says:

    I’d certainly say it’s shaped my views, and in a good way. I started young and haven’t stopped. Romance is probably the main reason I still believe in true love. All that cynicism and the years of dysfunctional lit-fic relationships wear on a girl, you know?

    They’ve reinforced what mom said about it being worthwhile to wait for a man who’s my equal and not intimidated by me rather than taking the first one that comes on the scene. All those quirky heroines with their noses in books have been reassuring. They rounded out the super-Christian model I grew up seeing and provided serious sex ed.

    Yes, I’ve had to adjust ideal stories to reality, but don’t we all have to do that as we grow up? I don’t see that it matters whether those ideal scenarios come from books or movies or cultural archetypes.

  25. Sam says:

    I have just started reading romances again after about 5 years or so. It wasn’t that I thought the books coming out would suck, but I had gone through a bitter divorce and didn’t want to read about anyone else’s happliy-ever-after for awhile. I’ve gone back to romances because I couldn’t believe how hard and cynical I had become and thought maybe reading about some good men (even if they don’t exist) would soften me up a little. Now I have a lot of catching up to do.

  26. Charlotte Evans says:

    Well, yes, sortof. I cut my teeth, as some have said, on the novels of Dick Francis, Margery Allingham, Agatha Christie and Dorothy Sayers. (And I do mean, cut my teeth. Instead of Dick and Jane, my mother gave me Albert Campion.) Mysteries all, not in the romance genre. Except that they were all romantic and had romances and love and all that stuff. rereading a number of Dick Francis books last summer I realized that his heroes were where I got my ideal man. Clearly an important influence.

    mother65—neither I nor my mother are 65

  27. RStewie says:

    Wow!  That last post was at 3:37AM!!  I’m not that hardcore, but I’ll put in my 2 cents anyway,

    I think it HAS effected my view of relationships (I’ve been reading romance novels since about 12) but not to the point that most people think it does (ie I’m not some hair-brained romantic waiting for a Prince Charming).  My Prince Charming came complete with baggage and a son, but we’re happy and I think that’s more from my parent’s exemplary example than any romancelandia innundation I’ve been through.

    But I’ll always remember my mom getting mad at me when I was reading once (and being difficult—I was a teenager) and she told me “It’s not like it is in the books, you know!” 

    That, more than anything, made me re-evaluate what I was thinking reality is and what reality actually IS.

    My mom and dad rock: still together, and still going strong.  I can only owe my relationship’s success to them.

  28. Nifty says:

    I’m not married, so I can’t comment necessarily on how romances have affected my relationships, but I will say that one of the reasons Nora Roberts’ books, for instance, are among my favorites is because I appreciate her characters and the way they handle their relationships. 

    Nora writes about grown-up, mature people who work through things as partners.  Sure…every once in a while, the man makes the mistake of thinking he knows best, and he is quickly disabused of that notion by the strong-willed, independent, highly competent woman with whom he is lucky enough to have a relationship.  Nora’s characters are happy and fulfilled as individuals, and I think that’s why they are happy and fulfilled as couples.  What’s chilvalrous about the heroes—and the heroines—is that they respect each other.  They come together as partners, on equal ground, but they never lose their own distinct individuality.  It may taken them a while to hammer out the details of their partnership at first, but by the time the HEA rolls around, it’s a HEA I can believe in.

    Why wouldn’t I—or any person—want a relationship like that in real life?

  29. snarkhunter says:

    Dear kelly—no offense, but your roommate’s a bitch. :/

    Now, as for me and my unrealistic expectations…I don’t know. I don’t know if I have them. I might, somewhere among the onion layers of Issues I have regarding men, but I don’t think so. I think it’s not too much to ask to want a man who respects me, who can keep up with me intellectually, and whose personality complements (preferably by being not at all like) the bundle of neuroses that masquerades as my brain. Oh, and who can make me laugh.

    Maybe romance novels give me an unrealistic expectation of sex, but I also doubt that, only because I read all the stuff that makes sex sound horrible, too.

  30. Kaite says:

    I’m a little cranky today, so pardon me while I get my rant on.

    One thing in particular that really pisses me off about those people who say reading romance novels has “ruined” real life romance for me is that generally the arse pontificating at me a) has never read a romance novel, and therefore shouldn’t be telling me what’s in the book I’m reading, b) is typically in a crappy relationship herelf, suffering either in silence or frequently, loudly in my ear over drinks, and c) thinks that a man who doesn’t leave his own dirty underwear under the bed for over three weeks waiting for the ‘lil wummun’ to dig it out for laundering is the height of wonderful.

    Maybe, Kelly, your roomie needs to raise her standards. You think? :-p I fail to see what’s so dysfunctional about wanting a man who respects me, accepts me for me, allows me to accept him for who he is AND isn’t afraid to have his own opinions about anything (with, perhaps, some hot monkey lovin’ going on after the fade outs) is having “too high” a set of standards. And when you get down to it, I only like the Romancelandia heroes that meet my criteria for a personal hero irl. No dumb as a box of rocks Alpha for me—if he’s going to be that big a jerk, he better be smart as well.

    Boils. My. Mutton.

    Spaminator word? Came38. Do the fortune cookie game with “in bed” and add an extra “times” in there, and you know what I will be wishing for when I blow out the candles on my next birthday cake…. 😀

  31. For me, the allure of romance was always that it was fantasy.  Once I wanted more real life than fantasy, it did not affect my relationship choices.  But I will say that I used reading (of romance and other genres) as a way to stay hidden in fantasy for a long time.  That’s different than how it affects your real relationships, though.

    My real relationships are and will always be more influenced by my relationships with my family earlier in life.

    But here’s one thing that romance did teach me: pay attention to the good kisser.  I ended up staying with a guy who’s first kiss knocked me off my feet.

  32. About all the overabundance of titled heroes and heroines in Romancelandia:  I always hoped someone would write a novel – sort of a cross between The Eyre Affair and Pleasantville (I know it’s a movie, but if it were a book) – that’s based on the population problem in romance.  I’ve been trying to figure out how I’d start it, but haven’t come up with a great idea for it.

    There could be so many spin-offs:  the veritable plethora of Greek tycoons, rugged cowboys, and sexy vampires alone make me think Earth should be about 10 times bigger just to accommodate them all.

    spamblocker: last68 – The last 68 vampire second daughters of the English nobility have married all the Greek tycoons.  All I have left is this rugged cowboy.

  33. snarkhunter says:

    I have to add that I find the whole concept of chivalry offensive. I’m all about courtesy to everyone. But “chivalry” is rooted in a system wherein women are treated differently because they’re weaker, more delicate, etc. I don’t want a chivalrous man. I want a man who treats all people with respect and kindness.

  34. Suze says:

    those times where I can’t find anything I enjoy reading, I can be a complete beeatch

    Slightly off-topic, but I find my enjoyment of a book seems to be related to my hormones.  I picked up six new books last week, and dropped them all after 2 or 3 pages, regretting the money I spent, and re-reading ANCIENT, sure-to-fit-my-mood books instead.  This week, I’m devouring and enjoying the new ones.

    place77: Place your 77 new books in a huge pile by the bed, because your bookshelves are all full again.

  35. Miss Erin says:

    I think I definitely have to say yes to that question. But then, that yes isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Like most here, reading romance has helped in realizing what I want in a relationship and a life partner(unfortunately devilishly handsome butch trauma surgeons with painful pasts are not a dime a dozen in my world)and that what I want is good and it’s good for me to know. High standards are definitely a good thing.

  36. Gail Dayton says:

    Maybe romance novels give me an unrealistic expectation of sex, but I also doubt that, only because I read all the stuff that makes sex sound horrible, too.

    You know what? I say, Hooray For Romance Novels’ Depiction of Sex!

    Does it raise a woman’s expectation of satisfaction in sex? GOOD.

    Hell Yeah! Because frankly, I think far too many women—of EVERY age—settle for far too little.

    And if men want to whine about it, I say Too Bad. Women have a right to expect satisfaction in sex. They have a right to an orgasm. They have a right to sex that feels good.

    I do think most readers (even virgins) realize that Romancelandia sex can be over the top, especially if you move into the erotica side. The hero’s stamina and recovery time and plenty of other things are exaggerated. But the heroine’s right to sexual satisfaction? Nope.

  37. rascoagogo says:

    Good point, Gail! I would certainly say that it did that for me. Being a romance reader from early-on, I never once had the idea that sex should be anything but awesome.

    @kelly yeah, your roommate has no idea what she’s talking about… and that was super mean.

  38. Being a romance reader (and writer) has definitely affected my relationship with my husband in a positive way.  He teases me about the covers of the books I buy and tries to read over my shoulder while I’m writing love scenes, but it’s all done with affection.  I’m lucky to have a partner who is proud of me and respects what I do.

    Maybe my expectations for him are higher because of romance, but that isn’t a bad thing.  Why shouldn’t women expect true love and great sex?

  39. Julianna says:

    When I was a little girl, my dad would read me fairy tales – and after each one was over, and the beauty and the prince had had their HEA, my dad would say “remember, there’s no prince.”  I heart my dad, and my un-princelike husband, who does treat me like a queen.

  40. NHS says:

    Wow there have been some great subjects lately I just wish I had more time to comment.

    I think we are all, in some small way at least, influenced by what we read. Isn’t that part of the point? I’m a smart independent intelligent woman and I can’t deny that reading romance has had its effect on how I see relationships.
    But then again the influences work both ways I suppose, I tend to enjoy bad boy heroes because I have one but I also enjoy heroes that are very demonstrative and in control because my real relationship is more one of equals. Go figure.

    Spam: Plane37 is that like Mountain4 or Hill99 or Valley12? If so I still got no idea.

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