Part of a series: Cassie Edwards 1: The First Post | Cassie Edwards 2: Savage Longings | Cassie Edwards Part 3: Running Fox | Cassie Edwards Part 4: Savage Moon | Cassie Edwards Part 5: Savage Beloved | Follow-up: Penguin (Part 1?) | Official Statement from Signet | AP Article Contains Response from Edwards | RWA Responds to Allegations | A centralized document for the Cassie Edwards situation
…and, well, read it yourself.
Signet takes plagiarism seriously, and would act swiftly were there justification for such allegations against one of its authors. But in this case Ms. Edwards has done nothing wrong.
The copyright fair-use doctrine permits reasonable borrowing and paraphrasing of another author's words, especially for the purpose of creating something new and original. Also, anyone may use facts, ideas and theories developed by another author, as well as any material in the public domain. Ms. Edwards' researched historical novels are precisely the kinds of original, creative works that this copyright policy promotes.
Although it may be common in academic circles to meticulously footnote every source and provide citations or bibliographies, even though not required by copyright law, such a practice is virtually unheard of for a popular novel aimed at the consumer market.
All credit due to Jane of Dear Author for ferreting out (black-footed or otherwise) the appropriate Signet representative to write to and forwarding the statement to us when she got a response.
Candy says: Here’s a refresher on what constitutes plagiarism and what constitutes copyright infringement. Here it is again in brief:
Plagiarism and copyright infringement sometimes intersect, but not always. The most famous cases we’ve seen—Janet Dailey’s plagiarism of Nora Roberts’ work, for example—do. But it’s entirely possible to plagiarize without infringing on a copyright; all that’s required is copying huge chunks of a work without attribution and passing it off as your own original efforts. If the work has passed into the public domain, or if it isn’t copyrighted, there’s no copyright infringement. It’s also possible to infringe on somebody’s copyright without plagiarizing—if somebody making a movie decides to use a piece of copyrighted music without clearing the rights with the publisher first but acknowledge the musician in the credits, they’ve infringed on a copyright but they haven’t plagiarized.
In short: plagiarism is an ethical issue. It’s concerned with what’s right and what’s not. Copyright infringement is a legal action, and is a way for somebody whose works have been infringed to say “Bitch where my money?” It’s concerned with what’s legal and what’s not.
And that’s all I’m going to say for now.
Sarah says: I’m not qualified or even interested in the legality of the situation, or whether something is within fair-use doctrines. Not a lawyer. Not even in law school.
But I do want to make it explicitly clear that on terms of ethical use, I disagree with Signet and the idea that she’s done nothing wrong.
I’m certainly not a copyright lawyer, and questions of law are not my point. My issue is the ethics of it. Further, I think the ethics of the question are much more important than the legalities. There are a lot of things that can get you failed in English class or fired from a newspaper that are not against the law.
And the idea that she’s done nothing wrong from an ethical stance? Horsepucky. She’s done plenty wrong in my book.
I don’t buy Janet Dailey’s books past or present for that reason. I don’t check them out of the library or read them used. It’s an ethical distinction on my part: as a consumer, I can vote with my wallet. As a reader I can vote with my choices. As a blogger, I can write my opinion. In my opinion, Cassie Edwards’ use of at least 6 documented sources verbatim without attribution or acknowledgment is ethically wrong. It would have been so simple and appropriate to place an acknowledgment at the back of her book. “For more information about the Lakota Indians, I heartily recommend….”
So, let me ask you your opinion, if you haven’t already stated it. From an ethical standpoint, where do you draw the line? Are the usage of passages in Edwards’ books acceptable from an ethical standpoint or not? If you’re a reader or a writer, what do you think?
The “it’s okay because I’m part Cheyenne” it just about the worst to me. What a really bad thing to throw out there as an excuse, honestly.
Totally lame. Presumably she can switch it round to say “it’s okay because I’m part American” if she’s upset (read: plagiarized) any non-Cheyenne Americans.
What really bugs me about this is how LAZY this is. Readers really do appreciate research. But they also appreciate writers who can write.
I think we should all have a go at using these sources to inform some decent prose. [Some stupid prose follows.]
How about: “What did you say was for lunch? Braided intestines? Not again!”
Or. “I just saw a Buffalo with some sunflowers caught on its horns. I shit you not.”
“Wouldn’t boycotting Signet include Nora’s books? Nu-uh, sorry, not gonna do it.”
Boycotting the whole publisher only hurts authors that have nothing to do with this. It’s not Author X’s fault that Author Y plagiarized something, so Author X should not loose sales because of it.
I have no problem with boycotting the AUTHOR that did the plagiarizing, but not the whole publisher.
Just my opinion.
People here have mentioned that they feel bad for the authors who were plagiarized, but now that the tide is turning to talk of boycotting Signet, I find myself feeling horrible for all the *other* authors published by Signet, the folks who didn’t plagiarize and wrote original works and now see their audience potentially diminished by this fiasco. It seems unjust to me that they should have to suffer for CE’s sins and the company’s inappropriate response.
Just a thought…
<
>
Well, I didn’t want to say anything. But I was walking my teacup poodle, Fifi, downtown and a woman with an armful of anthropology books about Indian tribes came stumbling out of the library, got into her Cadillac El Dorado, hit the gas, jumped the curb and RAN OVER MY DOG!!
I didn’t catch her license plate, but she had a bumper sticker that said, “Eat My Savage Dust!” and another that said, “Grass, Gas, or Savage Ass! Everyone’s gotta pay!”
I also hope that this is a case of one employee’s opinion being allowed to speak for the entire publishing house, but I’m not holding my breath.
This email was delivered explicitly as “Signet’s official statement.”
Marta Acosta, I just spit out a mouthful of tea and am laughing my ass off . . . wait . . . Eff! I got tea spots all over my skirt and I have to go straight to my kid’s music class tonight. Damn you! (said in all good humor)
veri word: hell85. which is what I’m mumbling at this very moment.
LMAO @ “I just saw a buffalo with some sunflowers caught on its horns—I shit you not.” Now that? Is brilliant prose.
I don’t feel like I can add anything new to this discussion at this point. Scatter-bombing CE books with bad reviews on Amazon is tempting, but wrong. Boycotting all Signet authors isn’t the slightest bit fair, even if it would hurt Signet the most. As an author, I’d hate to be slammed into a big crap bag because someone I don’t even know is an asshat, so I won’t do that to others.
And am enjoying the very few trolls coming in. Wish there were more.
I have posted some of this at Dear Author today, but wanted to share with the SB’s.
The Penguin Group is an enormous publishing house with at least 23 lines under their aegis. If they are going to acquire this many they should be prepared to police them. Plagiarism is a serious offence and shouldn’t be tolerated. Penguin should come down hard on Signet, but I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
High-profile authors writing for the group should let Penguin know that they won’t tolerate plagiarism in any form. If the authors make no effort to stop this nonsense, then I don’t feel obligated to buy books from The Penguin Group!
Define “use†. . . not to be flip, but you’re sort of making a fruit salad here of the apples and oranges of the issue.
Preachin’ to the choir. I was speaking in a strictly general sense of the words and I’ve already said more or less what you did in your post—in this specific instance, however, I was referring to the Gabaldon quote that Robin was citing and asking her to clarify what she meant.
Then going back and re-reading because my brain was obviously clouded with fifth-grade math and I’d misread the final sentence. *g*
Look, stated baldly, for me, personally, whether or not copyright has expired or not, it’s absolutely wrong to use a source and not cite it. Case in point? My next book is a contemporary reinterpretation of Carmen—which has its origins in an 1845 Prosper Mérimée novella. And you can betcha that even though my story has only the merest hint of resemblance to the original, I’ll be citing Msr. Mérimée and Georges Bizet as well, since my editor’s actual inspiration for the idea was the opera.
Do I have to? No. Do I, personally, have to? Absolutely.
Does that make sense?
LOL Marta Acosta! That cracked me up.
I haven’t got much more to add to the above comments other than to also voice my disappointment at the publishers response.
I wont be boycotting Signet but I will be writing them a letter expressing my outrage that they believe CTRL+C / CTRL+V equals “original, creative works”. Bah.
Well, I’ll tell ya… I wanted to go straight to the source, Cassie Edwards herself, and ask for her take on this situation. It seemed like the logical thing to do and would’ve made for a great interview, to boot. (I’m a big believer in bypassing crap alley and going straight to the crib. Yo.)
However, “You can
NOT
reach Cassie Edwards by email.” Thus spake her fan club site. (They didn’t give no address or phone number, neither—skanks.)
I find it odd that an author would choose to so insulate herself. My curiosity, it runneth over.
~If the authors make no effort to stop this nonsense, then I don’t feel obligated to buy books from The Penguin Group!~
What more, exactly, would you expect authors to do? I’ve certainly come out, again and again, against plagiarism and infringement. I made a very public stand on it years ago, and haven’t backed down since. I know many other writers who have protested and expressed their strong opinions against plagiarism.
Why is one writer’s actions, and the response from her publisher the tar on the brush that paints all of us?
We are not responsible. We are not The Borg.
I agree with Nora on this:
“Why is one writer’s actions, and the response from her publisher the tar on the brush that paints all of us? We are not responsible.”
Let’s be clear that it’s not “authors” being discussed, it’s one author. One writer is accused of plagiarism.
Don’t buy that writer’s books. Write to her publisher and complain that you’re unhappy with their response to the situation. But don’t penalize other authors for one person’s errors.
I had a report about pandas to do once. I went to the library and took out an encyclopedia and copied the whole entry.
My teacher took me aside and told me that was plagiarism and bad. She gave me a bad grade.
I told her that I didn’t know and would fix it.
But I was 7 years old, in the 1st grade, and doing my first real report. (And to tell you the truth, she didn’t really explain that I should get information and put it into my own words…) I was forever imprinted against plagiarism. Even thinking of it causes an acidic taste of embarrassment and anger.
It’s understandable that a child might mistakenly commit plagiarism. She is an adult and has published dozens of novels.
I read one of her books when I was a teen. Since I never read another, it must have been unimpressive. And I never have read Janet Daily books and never will.
In an age where copy and paste is a button away, we need to have standards. I’m glad that this information has come to life. It isn’t hard to use historical information in your books AND to source it.
Other romance novel authors HAVE done so. Susan Johnson, Jo Beverley, and Karen Marie Morning all give their sources. Signet’s reply is not good enough.
“Resistance is futile”
Sorry couldn’t resist-loved the Borg comment.
First of all, I’ve become Nora Roberts’ adoring slave and I’m too indolent to be a slave and roll my eyes too much to be adoring. The woman, however, is a font of wisdom and sense wrapped up with the best in pithy comments.
Secondly, the Signet letter begins with the plagiarism issue and ends with the copyright infringement issue. It seems carefully parsed. They don’t actually address plagiarism – only speak to copyright infringement.
I find the arguments about boycotting Signet vs. just boycotting CE very interesting, since we’re going through a very big strike in another industry—the Writer’s strike, natch. Actors and actresses and so forth are supporting the strike even though it’s hurting business. How far are people here willing to go for a boycott concerning morals and ethics? Totally different situations, some could argue, but there are enough similarities for me to be intrigued by people’s responses.
…This sounds kind of like guilt-tripping on my part, really, which no one should take it as. I doubt a boycott would be all that effective anyway.
There really isn’t anything I can add that has not already been said, but I do want to cast my vote against plagiarism. I do not care if Ms. Edwards’ broke the law or not, she did a really shitty thing and the least she deserves is a tarnished reputation. I will loose no sleep over her treatment here. Two days ago I considered Cassie Edwards a bad writer. Today I consider her a bad person.
Well, Willa. I guess only boycotting CE just feels like a pretty empty gesture since most of us wouldn’t have bought any of her books anyway.
~Totally different situations, some could argue~
Because they are entire different situations. The writer’s union opted to strike in order to fight for issues they deemed important. It’s not a boycott, it’s a union strike, and those supporting it by not crossing picket lines aren’t boycotting anything. They’re not punishing innocent bystanders, but respecting union rules and regulations.
Author X is not part of a union, has no vote. She is not able to do more than express her opinion on this issue. Boycotting her publisher, punishing her because another author crossed a line—and their mutual publisher supports the other author (at this time) strikes me as monumentally unfair and shortsighted.
If one feels strongly enough, one boycotts the offender’s work. Not that of someone who just happens to be published under the same imprint.
A lot of people who are being hurt by that strike still support that strike because they think it’s the right thing to do. That’s the angle I was going for—if authors are unwilling to lose sales for a moral or ethical cause, then that’s that.
Is this even a good tangent to go on? It seems kind of derailing.
Well, I can’t say I’m surprised by Signet’s answer. After all, as a company, their only concern is copyright and possible lawsuits, not ethics. After all, CE has violated no actual law, only the unwritten law of “do not pass other people’s work as your own,” but that’s not here nor there in Signet’s eyes. She’s done nothing that’s actually illegal, so she can’t be blamed for anything in Signet’s (and sadly, many people’s) eyes.
Which is, in my opinion, an incredibly sad state of affairs.
If you want to have a voice in this, you write to Signet. Calm, reasoned, detailed letters regarding why you are unhappy/outraged/confused/disappointed.
This is action, and expression, and a publisher will pay attention to reader letters. If you’re upset, let the publisher know, clearly, why—and how you intend, as a reader, to deal with your upset.
I so have to share this with you guys.
When I mosied over to Cassie’s website to see if theri was any response to the scandal here and surfed around, and clicked on the titles of her upcoming books.
She’s releasing a Dreamcatcher book in 2009 entitled…
wait for it…
‘Stolen Thunder’.
BAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!
I know that there is no “code of ethics” that is handed out to writers (as there is to social workers-my profession), but I do remember Mrs. Scully lecturing me in 5th grade about the importance of not copying an essay out on Ghengis Khan out of the encyclopedia and trying to hand it in as my essay. This is not an easy thing for me to forget.
Did CE skip 5th grade?
Nora, I would love to write them a letter but I can’t find contact details for Signet anywhere. Does anyone have the name/address one should use to contact them?
E.Ann..
Stolen Thunder for reals?
LMAO that has to be the FUNNIEST thing I’ve read in DAYS.
E. Ann Bardawill: OH MY LORD.
*on floor*
As for the post, well. Clearly this is some new definition of “nothing wrong” with which I was previously unacquainted. As they say.
karibelle said,
Exactly. I’m going to continue doing what I’ve been doing all along—what’re the consequences to CE for her theft?
Which is why I’m writing a post on the topic for the online forums I belong to, and will continue naming names—along with their sins—to all the people I know.
spamfoiler: stop45—yup, lets stop’em!
A lot of people who are being hurt by that strike still support that strike because they think it’s the right thing to do. That’s the angle I was going for—if authors are unwilling to lose sales for a moral or ethical cause, then that’s that.
Well, I wouldn’t agree that this is the right direction to take this. Those who are supporting the writers’ strike are those whose livelihoods are directly affected by those writers. Is Author X’s livelihood directly affected by Cassie Edwards? No.
This isn’t really very similar at all to the writers’ strike. They’re fighting unfair (in their opinion) labor practices and pay scales, and The MAN (aka big Hollywood studio execs) is against them. Therefore, they use their only method of putting pressure upon said MAN—they withhold their work until the MAN cries uncle. Each one of them will feel the outcome in their bank accounts. Other Signet/Penguin authors aren’t in the same we-all-sink-or-float boat.
I’m not published by Signet or any other Penguin imprint, but if I were, I wouldn’t be willing to lose money that (as Dub-Ya says) puts food on my family, just because one author who happens to write for the same house has behaved unethically.
So, there I am reading Eileen Wilks’ new book, ‘Night Season’ and lo! On page 110 is a footnote. While what she wrote wasn’t a ver batim copy of someone else’s work, it is still an ‘academic’ moment in fiction. I just thought that was interesting as Signet mentioned that this type of thing was unheard of (though plenty of people have listed examples contradicting Signet).
word: bring98. That’s right, bring 98 more examples.
Ros, per—E upthread:
***
The address for Penguin Group (Signet’s parent company) is
375 Hudson Street
New York, NY 10014
And here’s the list of their top executives,
http://us.penguingroup.com/static/html/aboutus/executives.html
***
Write early and write often, I say.
But again, how can Signet even make a claim that what Edwards has done IS legal?
This statement, IMO, is not what I expected Signet to say, even though I expected a pretty aggressive CYA. IMO this goes much farther. I believe it to be unwise, both from a position of accuracy and public relations. Had I been advising them, I would never have let this kind of statement be issued, because IMO it’s going to accomplish the exact opposite of its intent, which violates the rules as outlines in Spin Control 101.
Why so surprised? I think Signet’s played it exactly right in terms of damage control. They understand how publicity works. Most of the world will never hear of this. Of those who do, most will only see the initial article(s) quoting Signet’s response—which cites fair use and points out the difference between academic and fiction writing. Those responses will be persuasive to many who read the article.
Signet’s a business. They have to CYA and manage press—otherwise they’d be doing poorly by their other authors. They obviously realized they needed an immediate response for the press, but I bet someone behind the scenes is evaluating the book passages quoted here, checking on copyright dates, and looking for an academic opinion or three on fair use in fiction.
If that’s so, should they have said up front “We will look into it”? Maybe yes, maybe no. If someone accused Nora Roberts (sorry, it IS awfully easy to pick on the beloved big names, isn’t it), there would be a lot of anger at Signet for not standing by their author. Given the “I’m going to the press!” statements posted here, Signet was smart to respond quickly without admitting any wrongdoing. If nothing else, they bought themselves time. There’s an innocuous quote out there for the first wave of press, and if they’re smart they’re doing their research now in case the questions get tougher.
This doesn’t mean I support some conspiracy to suppress discourse on plagiarism. All I’m saying is, given the speed of the response, I didn’t expect Signet to say anything other than what they did.
Admittedly, I haven’t waded through all these comments, so pardon if I’ve got the wrong end of the stick.
It appears someone has suggested that other authors pubbed by Signet should boycott Signet or somehow or other go on strike against them, comparing it to the Hollywood/television writers strike. There’s a big difference in those (Hollywood) writers and novelists – those writers are in a union. When they strike, they’re jobs remain secure. Their strike is sanctioned. If writers of books tried that, their publishing houses would just sign other writers. There would be no negotiations, and their jobs would have disappeared the day they tried that on. Totally different.
Aside from any legal or ethical considerations, how crap of a writer do you have to be to not even bother to make a stab at paraphrasing? Putting something in quotes and breaking a kyped paragraph with a bit of action, like “he paused to pick the nit he saw running up her bodice” before continuing with the verbatim “quotation” doesn’t count.
Sorry signet! (truly and not sarcastically sorry to Nora, Jennifer Crusie and Barb) I’m just not going to pay money to any entity with such convenenient ethics. Rather than purchase, I’m heading to the libary for AGNES AND THE HIT MAN and all future Nora Roberts books and signet books.
think Signet’s played it exactly right in terms of damage control.
See, I think the AP article put the statement’s integrity in jeopardy. Even Cassie Edwards’s statement stands in a kind of macabre opposition, IMO, let alone the comment by the “plagiarism expert.” And wow (in a good way) on the AP even picking up the story and giving it as much attention as it did.
Spam word: truth91
I’m new to this blog, having found it after reading an article about Cassie Edward’s plagiarism. I’m not an expert on copyright law but I am a librarian so probably know more than most. I have no idea what Signet is talking about or where they’re getting their information. From what I can see, Edwards definitely, without a doubt, plagiarized. If you lift the exact phrasing from one text, insert it into your own work, and then fail to cite it, it’s plagiarism. College Freshmen learn that in their beginning writing classes.
See, I think the AP article put the statement’s integrity in jeopardy.
In hindsight, sure, but when Signet responded, they didn’t know exactly what articles might come out or who they might quote. So they were smart to get something neutral-sounding out there ahead of time. It worked to some extent—the PW article isn’t bad at all, given how ugly it could have been.
Even the AP article isn’t as bad as it could have been. The first sentence sounds damning, but Signet’s response gave Edwards the line “When you write historical romances, you’re not asked to do that†and she’s running with it. A lot of people aren’t into detail—they’ll read just far enough to see whether she has a response and whether anyone stands by her.
I think to most of the public, the “plagiarism expert” is the most damning thing in the AP article. No comparison of texts or sweet words from the publisher can fix the impression that “an expert said….”
Although it may be common in academic circles to meticulously footnote every source and provide citations or bibliographies, even though not required by copyright law, such a practice is virtually unheard of for a popular novel aimed at the consumer market.
The Miskatonic University (should that be footnoted?) site about footnotes deals mainly with footnotes that are part of the fiction, or interpolated into older books by later editors, rather than the sort of thing we’re looking at with Edwards. In Book: A Novel by Robert Grudin, the footnotes actually rebel against the text in open warfare!
I think the proper procedure for a historical novelist would be to put the cited material in either a foreword or an afterword. Georgette Heyer’s two non-romance historicals about the Napoleonic Wars, The Spanish Bride and An Infamous Army, have pages of documentation at the end, IIRC; and John Dickson Carr’s historical mysteries usually have an afterword dealing with the period and citing references consulted. And authors who change facts for the sake of the story (such as giving a character a Siamese cat long before the breed was introduced into England) usually add a note somewhere to point out that they are doing so.
Remember this? (from Wiki): In 1987, Joe Biden ran as a Democratic presidential candidate. When the campaign began, he was considered a frontrunner because of his moderate image. However, the campaign ended when he was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party. Though Biden had correctly credited the original author in all speeches but one, the one where he failed to make mention of the originator was caught on video. In the video Biden is filmed repeating a stump speech by Kinnock, with only minor modifications.
How ironic! Politicians are more moral than publishers when it comes to punishing plagiarism!
Plagiarism is actually a fairly recent concept, as “imitation” of other writers, as well as reality, was something to be striven for before the Romantic Era made originality a virtue. One always claimed to be following an ancient source, with no concept of distinguishing between his work and one’s own. In fact, if one didn’t have an ancient source, one invented one, like Chaucer’s “mine auctour Lollius,” whom he made up to conceal the fact that he was swiping Troilus and Criseyde from a much more recent author, Boccaccio. And one Old Norse poet was actually known as Eyvind the Plagiarist (Eyvind Skaldspillar). Most of Shakespeare’s plots were swiped from other works; and some of Antony and Cleopatra was lifted word for word from North’s translation of Plutarch.
Barb Ferrer: About the Carmen reinterpretation: I’m not sure you DO have to mention it—or at least, do it in a postscript. The delight of discovering for oneself that such things are going on—like noting that Sharyn McCrumb’s St. Dale, about a bus trip to raceways made famous by Dale Earnhardt, is based on The Canterbury Tales. Or you could name characters Prosper or Mary May or Georges or Beezy, as McCrumb named characters Franklin and Miller.
As for contacting CE directly, she has a MySpace page; there’s a link to it on her website.
Why doesn’t somebody write a “Savage” romance about ME? It was my mother’s maiden name….
Boycotting a publisher…
How can I trust the publisher either? They are supposed to deliver a quality product to me.
When I pick up a book at Walmart or Borders, I trust that the publisher has done their job.
Will I stop buying from Penguin/Signet? No.. I love to many of their authors (Berkly). But now I will look to see who the publisher is. I might not buy it on release week or might wait and check the books out from the library.
My 7.99 may not mean much, but a lot of readers may feel the same way.
This is ugly for everyone. CE, Penguin/Signet and us the readers. Most especially readers.