A few Bitchery readers have sent me a veritable buffet of links regarding a recent J.R. Ward fluff online at her author-hosted bulletin boards. Seems a reader went to Ward’s BB community, and posted her opinion about Ward’s series, specifically about the slang used by some characters, and the gay undertones in some of the scenes, and asked if anyone noticed the same things she noted.
I can’t link to the thread in question as it’s for members only. But from my understanding, the writer of the original post was blasted online by “rabid fangirls” of Ward’s community, and ultimately ended up banned from the boards. Since I can’t directly read the thread or witness the alleged harshness that greeted this reader’s questions, I have rely on what others have said.
What strikes me as curious is that a few bloggers hold Ward responsible for the behavior of the fans on her site. DishingDiva states that the boards are hosted and moderated by Ward and thus the attacks and banning were condoned as she must have been aware that they were happening.
Now, we here at SBTB, we are big fans of authors behaving in entertaining fashion, and we are more than aware that there are some people out there on the wild, wild internet that take their reading very, very seriously. But is an author responsible for the allegedly buttheaded behavior of their readership?
I pose the same question to myself – if we were (un)fortunate to attract a troll, would it be my responsibility to ban and delete that user’s posts until they signed up again under a different user name from a different IP? Looking at it from a “person who hosts the discussion” perspective, I’d have to say that I’m not entirely responsible for what other people say. If someone signed up for membership and started posting after every review how much Candy and I suck and how we’re absolutely horrible people to be so mean to those nice romance writers like Cassie Edwards, it’d be annoying but I’d probably let it stand, since hey, that’s their opinion and they’re welcome to it, even on our site.
In fact, I’d lose credibility if I started deleting the posts I disagreed with, or banning users who caused trouble on the site. I’m not saying I love the squabbles just for their own sake, but no one here has disgreed by name calling or demanding that they be banned from the register of Bitches. If that’s what happened on Ward’s site, if she deleted the original poster because she didn’t want gay undertones discussed on the site, well, it’s her prerogative to edit her boards however she wants, though I’d disagree heartily with that decision.
I also know the community here is pretty intelligent and enjoys a good discussion, even a heated one from multiple points of view, and would probably ignore a troll until it went away. Or at least have some delicious fun at its expense. At the very least, I can always count on the Bitchery members to disagree with class and style, even when heated issues light up the stats like someone farted on a match.
So do I think Ward is responsible for the behaviour of her fans? Nah. Was it a dumb move to ban a user who asked questions that some fans didn’t like? Yup. Does it suck that people can be buttnoids online? Sure it does. But then, some people out there think Candy and I are the buttnoids.
Am I the only one who is now thinking of words that rhyme with cellie?
Jelly
Belly
Telly
Smelly
Deli
Shelly
Banana Fanna Fo Fanna
If only I could haiku…..
I don’t know whether anyone can blame an author for his/her fans’s reactions (including mass hysteria) unless the author him/herself is fanning the flames.
My understanding is that JRWard is paying a company to set up and run the board. Yes, she participates, and more often than say, Suzanne Brockmann does on her own BB. Does that mean JRWard should monitor the forum constantly and nip in the bud any unseemly behaviour? I would think that’s what she hired the company for, isn’t it? From where I sit, JRWard responsibility ends with setting up the basic format and tone of the forum with the company she hired to run it.
(I will say though that for a forum with some 3300+ registered users, having only two moderators is asking for trouble. Those people have to sleep and eat and have those elusive things known as ‘lives’—there’s just no way two people can monitor all the threads sprouting all over the place 24/7.)
spam foiler: should11
I don’t really think the core issue here is whether Ward should be accountable or responsible for what her fans do on her own site’s messageboard. I think it goes to how an author is involved in shaping his or her own public persona. So while I don’t hold Ward responsible for out of control fans per se, I think it’s interesting that a woman who was described in this thread as a “control freak” is involved in this kind of situation. Somewhere there’s a disconnect.
Some authors are really good at spinning their own publicity and some aren’t. But IMO, either through passive or active involvement in the creation and perpetuation of their own public image, they DO play a role in the shaping of that image. Whether Ward is involved in the policing of her board or her mods, she’s a presence. How could she not be? Her work is the reason for the existence of those boards.
I don’t think she necessarily should be chastizing her mods in the forum itself, nor do I think she should or could conceivably be held responsible for the flame wars on her own boards. BUT, I would think, logically speaking, that a woman who is a “control freak” wouldn’t be unaware of what’s going on. And whether or not it’s reflective of her true position on things, I do think her silence sends a message. What kind of message that is will depend on the listener, I guess. But it’s baffling to me why any author would want such vitriol connected to her name, regardless of the source. The list of those authors who seem to have a high tolerance for such drama as directly connected to their websites and therefore their public voice (beyond their work) yields some interesting names. It’s difficult for me to believe that Ward would feel comfortable on that roster, but I guess anything’s possible. Of course it’s also possible that she simply doesn’t yet know how to control or direct her own spin (although her advertised professional background wouldn’t logically lead me to that conclusion). Maybe she’s just hoping it will all die down before she figures out how to handle these types of outbreaks in the future. Since she has a medical and a legal background, maybe she’s working on some kind of anti-venom or anti-viral solution.
As someone who does spin control for a living, I’d advocate for early intervention, but not being a member of that MB, I can’t discern whether she’s already tried that and found it to be unworkable.
I want to get me some crazed fangirls.
All my readers seem so nice and normal. *Sigh* Must be my writing style.
I’m neither an author nor a board moderator, however let me toss in my two cents. First, it seems there is general agreement that no author is responsible for the behavior of his/her fans. So, the concern is coming from the perception that silence implies acceptance of this flame war that occurred on a board that Ms. Ward has running through her site. However, I suggest that board silence may be Ms. Ward wanting the mods to take care of it – she may well having been emailing or otherwise contacting them to make sure they were aware and were addressing the issue. Ms. Ward may well have wanted all of that to be taken care of by the mods, so that they continue to be viewed as the people taking care of issues rather than having people turn to her for such resolutions – or for appeals of mod decisions.
If hosts start having to babysit folks who come to their site and make offending/dumb/inappropriate comments, it’d never end. If it becomes out of hand, you just send an e-mail to the guy/gal and threaten to send them chicken blood by the mail. Works every time.
It’s like if you host a party at your house and 250 people show up, you can’t be expected to check who said what to whom and when and using what sort of tone… that’s the other guests’ job.
Who’s J.R. Ward, anyway?
Ever complain about something “Outlander” on a Diana Gabaldon board? Talk about a feeding frenzy …
Several years back I expressed my distaste for Brianna and was promptly torn to shreds by rabid DG fans. Albiet in the midst there were a few who were rational, but the rabids overwhelmed the discussion I had tried to create.
Now, this wasn’t a site moderated by DG or anything but it’s the same principal. The fans are not a reflection of the author, and perhaps the thread was shut down just because it was too hot and ruined it for rabid fangirls who aren’t normally rabid but just can’t resist responding to a troll as opposed to just ignoring.
Did Ward post a follow-up message warning of bad behaviour? If not, as moderator she really should have taken that upon herself.
… or rather, ruined by rabid fangirls who otherwise aren’t rabid.
Me have bad day & me write good.
A.M.Hartnett said,
JRWard is not a moderator in her forum. She does post there, but she is not a moderator herself.
The moderators did post a warning/explanation on the deletion of two threads related to the latest kerkuffle—Sarah F. posted it up-thread.
Robin, I myself wonder at the control freak comment about JRWard—just as I wonder about the whole “she buys her own hipe” thing. True, I’ve only read the three Brotherhood books a couple of weeks ago, and joined the board shortly after, so I’m definitely not up to date on any history of freakish behaviour on either JRWard’s part or the moderators’s.
(spamfoiler: think18 ha!)
Thanks to the people who responded to my question. I have no doubt that SB Sarah and SB Candy would kick ass and take names if any trolls, buttnoids, or napolis tried to stage a coup.
But this JR Ward and rabid fangirls has gotten me thinking: I still don’t think JR should be held responsible for the behavior of people who think they are her fans but now I ask myself – if it were my writing career, my PR, my fan base – wouldn’t I want to take responsibility and hose the out of control crazies down a little? And yes, I can see some problems with that and where it could backfire but I wouldn’t want people to go crazy and drive off new business.
I’m just saying….
OK, I felt the need to say some thing as a rabid fangirl.
a) I have problems with the boards. Namely the mods. I feel that they are overly biased and unfair in their judgements.
b) The mods did the right thing in this case. I didnt directly see it, but a few friends told me about it, and it basically degenerated into a mud slinging contest, cursing on all sides.
c) The board has a PG-13 rating. The mods stick to this zealously, and that was the main reason I feel the thread we deleted. It went way over the line in that department.
d) Should the participants have been banned? Hell no. As someone who was banned and was obsessed enough to get back on, its a pain in the ass. And frankly, they were kicked off for unfair reasons. (I think I was too, btw. I got booted for being 15)
e) JR Ward is not a moderator in her board. She often gets in trouble with the mods herself. She has never posted when there is a large disagreement on the boards like this. She tends to stay out of them as much as she can.
I do not think an author is responsible for controlling his/her fans. What they do on their own time is their buisness. Would they do as JR asked if she told them to stop? Probably. But I really do not think it is her decision to make, not when she has books due every 3 months (she writes under two names) and moderators she hired to perform that task for her.
(PS, sorry if I offended anyone. That seems to be happening a lot in other discussion about this)
I am not offended at all, FormerlyNightSong, but I wonder… How is it unfair to be banned from a board that clearly states that you must be over 18 to be a member… when you admit you are 15?
I felt it was unfair because I signed up for the boards May 4th. At that time there was an option for members who were under 18 to go through, which basically got permission from your parents to be on the boards. I did that option, got permission, and was later kicked off. So I found that to be unfair and very misleading.
I think I must have a pretty short attention span. I am tickled when I read a great story. I may blog about it and gush about it to friends. I also check out authors sites for new releases and order them as soon as possible when I love a book/series.
But I don’t understand how people can repeatedly visit and revisit some of these messages boards turning themselves into rapid fans just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on someone who does not equally love said piece of fiction.
Once I am done with a story I am usually quickly lured away by other books. I just don’t have the patience to continuely live in a particular fictional world. The more time spent on a single book/series that I have already completed, is less time reading new books.
I guess I am a lovem and leavem book slut or else I am easily distracted by shiny objects. I just don’t get it.
I guess that makes me a book slut, too. Hell, sometimes I even trade off between two or three different books, depending on what I feel like reading at any particular time.
I may be loyal enough to a series or author to auto-order, but I have never become so blindly devoted that I am incapable of seeing their flaws. The rabid fans who insist that their book/author/tv series is flawless often seem to be more in love with their own idea of the book/author/tv series than the actuality.
I’ve read Ward, and I like her series. It’s campy, and chock full of the hoyay. And, yeah, there is something really silly about a bunch of pale-ass, gigantic whiteguys rollin around the hood (are things that different in upstate NY?) throwing ninja stars and stomping on bad guys while listening to Tupac and Ludacris.
But, hey, like Ed Wood (or Johnny Depp, as Ed Wood) said, “Haven’t you ever heard of suspension of disbelief?”. Yes, Ed/Johnny, I have. It’s essential gear for any trip to Camp.
In my opinion, J.R. does have some responsibility with what goes on on the boards. As I recall, she’s listed as the administrator (J. Bird), so doesn’t that mean that she is ultimately the one that runs the site? And plus, as a lurker there myself, I do know that she is a VERY active participant, sometimes visiting and posting messages several times a day. I also know that she’s visited other sites and message boards where discussions of her books have been going on, and she’s always been more than happy to post on those. I’m even willing to bet my money that a few of the “cellies” have pm’ed or e-mailed her to death about the incident and what’s being said about her and the mods. This is why I find it so unappealing that she hasn’t stepped up and addressed this issue…surely she knows that she’s been the talk of the town this past few days. I hate to say it, but my opinion of her is slowly going down the tubes. Just yesterday, she was on the boards raving about how much her “cellies” rock and how fabulous and understanding they are….muah, muah, muah *sigh*
When I first joined the boards, I noticed right away that some of the members weren’t playing with a full deck. I actually felt kinda bad for Ward. I mean, how annoying can it be when you mention that one of the characters drinks Grey Goose and then suddenly, everyone and their mother has to stock their cabinets full of the stuff. I stopped feeling bad for her a while ago. It seems to me that she actually doesn’t mind it at all….If I had to say, she revels in it. Keep in mind that this is only my opinion based on her responses.
I honestly don’t think any changes to the boards are coming anytime soon, but if she had any kind of sense she would at least fire those unfair mods.
Natalie, like your point about hostess and party. My sister invited a few friends over for her 40th B-day. She later heard those friends invited other friends, people she didn’t like and did not want to share her special day hostessing. So she cancelled the party and she and hubby went out to dinner (ie made sure they were absent at party time).
Moral of the story…if your friends associate with rabid fangirls, cancell the party. Isn’t that what happened to JRWard?
BTW…WARDen & cellies? Eeeewh, please.
OMG, speaking of author websites I just read Gail Dayton’s. She was recently notified that Luna will NOT be publishing her third Rose book (as previously advertised in March 2007).
As previously speculated by SB, clearly Harlequin is whack. Since Luna is their only line that I read even occasionally, they have probably seen the last of me as a customer. Should I bother writting to tell them so?
As previously speculated by SB, clearly Harlequin is whack. Since Luna is their only line that I read even occasionally, they have probably seen the last of me as a customer. Should I bother writting to tell them so?
OMG, yes! From what I understand, Harlequin is actually one of the publishers that does actively solicit and pay attention to reader feedback in its publishing choices.
Just yesterday, she was on the boards raving about how much her “cellies†rock and how fabulous and understanding they are….muah, muah, muah *sigh*
When I first joined the boards, I noticed right away that some of the members weren’t playing with a full deck. I actually felt kinda bad for Ward. I mean, how annoying can it be when you mention that one of the characters drinks Grey Goose and then suddenly, everyone and their mother has to stock their cabinets full of the stuff.
Obviously Ward is comfortable enough with this scenario to keep it going on a site she owns and runs—at least for now. On the one hand, I can see how she wouldn’t want to alienate a very enthusiastic fan base, but if her reputation suffers on a wider scale, I would think she’d be aware of that and maybe adjust her approach. Who knows what’s going on behind the scenes, even now. I think this is one of those ‘time will tell’ scenarios.
Whoever mentioned “Ed Wood” nailed the feeling I have for the Brotherhood books. They’re campy and mostly fun, eeven though my reactions to them have been mixed. I can’t take them too seriously, I find aspects of them over the top, I see them as pretty traditional despite all their purported world building, and I am already growing tired of certain things about the brothers and the prospect of however many more books (how many permutations of the same formula can Ward/Bird sell me on?). Phury is really the only brother I’m actively curious about right now, although I’m hoping Butch’s story offers up a different view of the Brotherhood’s world, especially since he is not fully integrated into it yet. At this point, I’m hoping for one big brotherhood orgy to dissipate all that manlove energy.
Yeah DL,
It’s not the hosts’ job to provide the fun (or lack thereof) but the guests’. That being said, that author is enjoying publicity right now, even if it’s not necessarily about her work or the “right” kind of publicity, and I guess that’s all that counts. We’re all talking about her, all been to her site (I have, anyway…I didn’t even know who she was).
So is this a controversy now? Man, I wish I had one of those! You can’t buy these things, you know. They’re a wild beast, and when one happens to you, you hang on and ride the wave!
Okay, I want a controversy. Let me see, I like bunnies on toast. There you go. Nathalie is eeeveel…can I have rabid fangirls now?
The rabid fangurlz were bad enough; I see enough of the capslock emo in middle-schoolers. I agree that an author is not responsible for emotionally overwrought fans, but…
“Phury” as a character name? White gangsta paranormals? “Overwrought” works as an adjective here, too, as does “silly.” Seems to me, books like that get the fans they deserve.
Nancy Gee said,
My apologies but… what?
I am taken aback that this sentence—enough so that I can’t quite put my reaction to words coherently.
Crazy people have read, and become obssessed with, great works of literature as well—do those books deserve that too?
Sorry, can’t follow that logic.
‘Crazy people have read, and become obssessed with, great works of literature as well—do those books deserve that too?’
Right on, azteclady…The Catcher in the Rye is practically the Psycho’s Bible. That’s like blaming Jodie Foster for John Hinkley’s behavior.
As someone who thinks J.R. Ward is responsible for the actions of the members of her board, I thought I’d share my thoughts as well.
As others have said, I hold her partially responsible because she is an Admin of her board, and she spends quite a bit of time there. Can she control the behavior of other people? No, of course not. No one can.
But she could address this publicly, letting the more zealous Cellies know that while she loves them, yada, yada, certain behavior isn’t acceptable. It’s a direct reflection on her if her fans behave badly. Perhaps it shouldn’t be, but there it is.
Just yesterday, she was on the boards raving about how much her “cellies†rock and how fabulous and understanding they are….muah, muah, muah *sigh*
She was also on the board saying/doing this the day after the “incident” with Dylan and Jazz. So I find it very, very hard to believe that she had “no knowledge” of what happened.
I guess what it comes down to, in my mind, is that all fans should be treated equal *g*. Why is it ok for her regular posters to jump all over a new member, but it isn’t alright for the new member – who also happens to be a fan, btw – to state her thoughts and opinions?
By keeping silent, this is the message I get from Ward. I also get the impression, and perhaps I’m biased now, that had Dylan’s original post been “OMG!OMG!I LOVE YOU! I LOVE YOU!” Ward herself would have responded.
I still say she’s at least partially responsible. As I said on our post, if this was a publisher/fan created site, that was moderated by the publisher/fans, I wouldn’t hold Ward responsible. But it isn’t. Ward is the Admin and she’s a regular poster. Therefore, it’s a direct reflection of her when things like this happen.
In my own, quiet, middle-aged chick sort of way, I’m a total fangirl of JRW’s books. I can’t remember the last time I actually paid attention to a release date and went to the store on that date, specifically to buy the book. September 5, I was at B&N, buying Lover Awakened. I’ve read a few vampire romances, but only a few. It’s not the vampire element, or the vocabulary, or anything other than the romance that I enjoy about these books. I’ve read nit-picky reviews about them, and sometimes concur with a lot of the comments.
But I don’t care. The woman has a talent for writing romance.
I’ve never been to her message boards. I looked at her website once, after I read the first book. It’s just not in me to be rabidly obsessed with an author, or her books.
It is in me to seek out good reads – and in my honest opinion, her books are very good.
LOL, Azteclady! Mine was an admittedly gut reaction, not logical at all. That’s what I get for posting just before bed. The word “deserve” did not convey my thoughts properly. No one deserves ill-mannered, overly protective fans.
I’m coming from a feeling that “out there” books with more bizarre plots and characters could well attract a more “out there” fan base.
And yes, indeed, even the most serious mainstream literature can attract strange individuals who go overboard in their devotion, but I seldom see emotional group disputes that spill over into public forums.
I do wonder how much the nature (in terms of genre, concept, or content) of any given book influences the emotional climate of its fan base. Would a more mainstream romance writer see the same emotional firestorm among their fans?
Just my $1.50 I think it’s a mistake for authors/celebs to sponsor bulletin boards. They always run into this kind of trouble.
The freaks vs. the geeks and the whole compettion to impress the celeb in question.
Case in point, the BillyBoyd.net bulletin board. That board imploded under it own weight and was taken off the site. Mostly due to the shitty attitude of the the “regulars” self titled “The Loons” These were the freaks that ruined their own good time.
Authors/Celebs who admin thier own boards fan the flame wars. That quickly disentegrates until the authors own reputation is in shreds.
You ARE known by the company you keep.
I’ve picked up J.R. Wards Lover Awakened on the recomendation on AAR review. and was going to start it this week but after hearing that the author is one of those celebs who by all apperences gets off on having her fans fight over her. Meh maybe i’ll save it for later in the year and start Anthony Bourdain’s new one.
Nancy Gee, I’m honestly not trying to pick on you personally, but the idea that a book is responsible for people’s reactions to its contents. You said,
Not to get religious, but see who has read the New Testament and what they have done with it. You’ll find people devoting their lives to help others, to the education, health, protection, feeding of others… and you’ll help people who would, in the name of the same God, kill all those who don’t believe as they do.
Thinking that certain books foster certain behaviours leads, in my mind, to the idea that censoring such books is a good idea. I don’t like that myself.
On the other hand, are authors responsible for fanning the fires of zealotry in their readers? Some of them are, I’m sure. Authors are people, after all. And some people have enough class to share, and others wouldn’t know what to do with it if it smacked them in the ass. Which of these JRWard is, I don’t know.
But she could address this publicly, letting the more zealous Cellies know that while she loves them, yada, yada, certain behavior isn’t acceptable. It’s a direct reflection on her if her fans behave badly. Perhaps it shouldn’t be, but there it is.
Had it been my job to advise her in the manner of the job I do have to advise on issues of public perception and reception, this is exactly what I would have suggested. The logic behind that advice would be twofold: to set a tone for the “cellies” to respect and follow, and to indicate to her wider and more moderate readership that she respects and welcomes them, as well (and more subtly to indicate her own emotional distance from her more protective fans). Because even if her moderate reader base isn’t active on her MB, they’re reading ABOUT her on blogs like this one and Dylan’s.
Miri, I am like you and get turned off by the rapid fans and on line bitch slapping. It does affect my reading choses. As I stated earlier, I just don’t have the devotion/attention span for these online worship sites. I try not to let authors misbehavior affect my choices, but they ultimately do. Staying away from their blogs and forums when they get heated is a good way to stay oblivious. There are a few authors that I quit reading just because of their on line antics. – That is a shame.
I am the owner of a web design firm and I cannot tell you how many clients I dissuade from using message boards/forums. They clearly have a use for some, but frankly it is my experience they can cause a lot of trouble and grief. Being able to communicate in a faceless world brings out the rudness/bad behavior in some of the most normally behaved people. Most people are raised and taught how to interact in public. It is not usually socially acceptable to be an asshat to strangers, but on the web all bets are off because people feel protected behind their online personalities.
As to the question of whether an author is responsible for their “zellie cellies”. I say ultimately yes. The author has made the decision to provide and pay for the message board. When you provide this type of public forum you will get the crazies. You will have people who feel included and loved and those who will get offended and leave. The author needs to weigh the potential gain of readers against the potential loss of readers. I have not visited the site, but gather that people have been offended and are being vocal about it. I am assuming (maybe wrongly) that Ward is aware of the situation and has decided to keep a low profile. This may be a smart move, but then again it may backfire in her face. I suspect right now she is finding it better to side with her cellies, but if enough people complain and she is a good business woman she will go into damage control. She may also not be a good business women and let her ego and adoration of her loving fans ruin a good thing. Time will tell.
I actually love her books and really don’t want to find out she has no class.
Azteclady-
Oh, goodness, no! Censorhsip is an abomination.
I’m not saying that the *book* is responsible at all, but that certain personality types are more vulnerable to excesses of devotion, and that when they come across a book/film/politician/philosophy that they feel “speaks” to them, they will buy in to it and give up any independent or critical thinking. (Not talking about the mentally ill obsessive, here, but those who would just go overboard with the fannishness.)
The book itself is only a book. It’s the variety in reader response that interests me. Why do some texts or authors generate the kind of flame war we’ve just seen? Do some subjects attract the kind of (otherwise ordinary)people who more willingly engage in that kind of kerfluffle? I’m postulating that texts outside the mainstream will.
I appreciate your help here – I need the feedback in order to sort this out in my own head. 🙂
Because even if her moderate reader base isn’t active on
her MB, they’re reading ABOUT her on blogs like this one and Dylan’s.
That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. By encouraging certain types of fans (even if only by remaining silent) she’s alienating other fans, and in the long run, that could really hurt her.
The book itself is only a book. It’s the variety in reader response that interests me. Why do some texts or authors generate the kind of flame war we’ve just seen? Do some subjects attract the kind of (otherwise ordinary)people who more willingly engage in that kind of kerfluffle? I’m postulating that texts outside the mainstream will.
Personally, I think the authors themselves tend to do this. Not in all cases, but not too long ago, I put up a post about this on our site. Do authors go too far? I have to wonder if they don’t pander to the more “Overzealous” people by creating online worlds, or trying to bring their characters to life.
Hmm, I’m not sure if I explained myself very well. I suppose it just seems that this type of “rabidness” seems to happen more often with authors that really go overboard in trying to bring their characters to life.
Here’s the post I’m referring to:
http://sanctuarysbookblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/how-much-is-too-much.html
You can see what I mean there.
The thing is, Nancy Gee, Suzanne Brockmann attracts just the same type of fans and she hasn’t created the same type of world. IMO, it’s the guys. It’s all about the type of MEN that are created by the authors, not the world they inhabit. Swoon-worthy, completely alpha, completely in-charge, completely under the spell of their women—that’s what’s attracting these fans (myself included, I might add), not the silliness of Phury and completely white guys listening to rap (also guilty, I might add again, except for the guy part).
Sarah F – I’ll bow to your expertise, then, and accept that it may be the hero type evoking the fan reaction. It would certainly explain why I haven’t come across this kind of group behavior before, because I tend to avoid that kind of characterization for the male love interest.
I’ve barely dipped a toe into the romance waters, and assumed that fan etiquette would be fairly consistent throughout the genre. Apparently not!
It’s all about the type of MEN that are created by the authors, not the world they inhabit.
This was my thought, as well, Sarah. And it’s an interesting case of transference, almost, where the most intense fans adopt the extreme territorial protectiveness toward the series and the author that the Brotherhood exhibit toward their mates and their brethren. Although so many Romance readers seem to identify with the heroine, IMO this is one instance where it’s the hero who has that role—perhaps because he has so much power within the world of the novels?
I’ve read the Warden / Cellies thing like a hundred times and I just got it.
Robin,
Maybe I’m defective in some way, but I’ve never identified with a heroine (okay, not true—I can remember one: SEP’s Phoebe in “It Had to be You”)—I’m way more interested in the hero and in following him on his journey.
And most of my romance reading friends are the same. Identification with the heroine is just not high on our list of why we read the books.
I think this holds true for a lot of authors—or at least the ones I read—and their fan base: Linda Howard’s most zealous fans are zealous over the men (“After the Night,” “Mr. Perfect,” the Mackenzie books). Same with SEP. We don’t go all gooey over whatsername the scientist—no, we want Cal, or Bobby Tom. Hell, same with Georgette Heyer or even Austen, although to a slightly lesser degree. It’s all about Dameral (sp?) and Sylvester for me, or Darcy and Wentworth, although I’ll admit the female characters are slighty more interesting here too.
So, anyone else out there more interested in identifying with the females than in following the males?
Maybe I’m defective in some way, but I’ve never identified with a heroine (okay, not true—I can remember one: SEP’s Phoebe in “It Had to be You”)—I’m way more interested in the hero and in following him on his journey.
And most of my romance reading friends are the same. Identification with the heroine is just not high on our list of why we read the books.
I don’t see it as a choice between identifying with the heroine or “following the hero,” Sarah. I think you’re absolutely right that many Romance readers are more hero-centric, and that a hero makes or breaks a Romance for them. But I still think that dynamic—reading for the hero, is different than putting oneself in the hero’s position in regard to the series and the author. Because part of the way we, as readers, experience the hero, is through the position of the heroine as the object of his love and attention.
There do seem to be some readers who overtly need to identify with the heroine, which is where I think a lot of the incredibly high standards for heroine behavior come from, and other readers who don’t need to make an overt identifying connection to the heroine. But what I don’t see is most readers of Romance actually taking on the hero’s characteristics or putting themselves in the position of the hero in regard to the books. And yet in this case, the fans that some people refer to as “rabid” (I’m really uncomfortable with that terminology, no matter how zealous they may be) seem to be actually embodying the roles of the Brotherhood as mediators between Ward and the series. Does that make sense to you, or do you see it differently?
I have to find the hero attractive and interesting to follow, but I also have to find the heroine WORTHY of him. I don’t necessarily need to be her/identify with her. The problem with Bridget Jones that I just could not get past was that I really didn’t think she was worthy of Darcy. Just wanted to slap her. So in that case, even Colin Firth on screen in the movie couldn’t help the darn thing. And if a sexy hero desires a shitty heroine, I lose all respect for him.
I have to find the hero attractive and interesting to follow, but I also have to find the heroine WORTHY of him. I don’t necessarily need to be her/identify with her.
Does it work both ways for you, Salome? Do you need to find the hero worthy of the hero, as well? Personally, I think I read more Romance in which I feel the hero isn’t worth the heroine than the other way around. But perhaps that’s because it’s the heroine who makes or breaks my experience as a reader in Romance. I don’t think I identify personally with either the hero or the heroine, but I’m definitely one of those readers who feels that the heroine is greatly underserved (in general) by the genre.