B+
Genre: Romance, Science Fiction/Fantasy
NB: We have two reviews today for Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen by Lois McMaster Bujold. One from Carrie and one from RevMelinda. Their reviews are similar but distinct in how they react to the major revelations that take place in this story. We’re running them both, but in order to keep the discussion in one place, we’re closing comments on one and directing readers to the other – which is annoying, so we ask your pardon for having to click a little extra if you want to discuss this book. Also: there is no way to discuss this book without spoiling everything, so the whole thing is a spoiler. K? K. – SB Sarah
Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen is a romance that, refreshingly, takes place between two older adults. It’s also a romance that is bound to be divisive, since it involves new information about, and a new love for, a beloved character from a long-running series. While I was open to the idea, at first I disliked the execution…but ultimately it won me over. This isn’t my favorite book by Lois McMaster Bujold, and it’s not a good place to start the Vorkosigan series, but it’s a solid entry in the series as well as a solid romance.
Since RevMelinda did such a great job in her review of explaining the plot and the relationship dynamics in Gentleman Jole, I’m going to concentrate on talking a bit about how the book falls into the larger series and my own reactions to the book.
The Vorkosigan Saga has been running since 1986. It includes seventeen full-length novels as well as some short stories and novellas. While that’s a pretty intimidating length for a series, some of the novels can be read as short mini-series and have been collected in omnibuses (for instance, the collection Miles in Love includes Komarr, A Civil Campaign, and the novella “Winter Fair Gifts,” and works as a stand alone trilogy). Some of the novels work fine as stand alones, period (I jumped right in with A Civil Campaign and instantly adored it, although many people suggest reading Komarr first). My point is that you don’t need to commit to all seventeen books to enjoy the series. Some of the books that have been reviewed on this site include Cordelia’s Honor, Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance, and Falling Free. Hands down the best of her romance-centric novels is A Civil Campaign, which is famously described as “A Regency Romance in Space.”
For the most part, the series involves the lives of the Vorkosigan family, particularly Cordelia, Aral, and their son Miles. The structure of the series allows Bujold to play with different genres, so while all of the books are science fiction in a shared universe with shared characters, some focus more on military science fiction, some are mysteries, some are romances or romantic comedies, some emphasize politics, and so forth. You can read the series based on its chronology as published, based on it’s internal chronology (Bujold’s preference), or based on whichever sub genre you prefer. Gentleman Jole fits best as a romance. This Wikipedia page tells just enough about the books that you can guess at the subgenre, and it lists the internal chronology order as well as the order by dates of publication.
SPOILERS ABOUND from here on out, because to describe the plot in even the most basic terms is to drop big huge spoilers for the series, so if you don’t want spoilers for the Vorkosigan Saga, STOP NOW.
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Gentleman Jole picks up three years after the end of Cryoburn. Cordelia is a widow, and for three years she’s pretty much focused on keeping her shit, and the empire, together, but now she’s ready to move on. The book reveals that Cordelia, Aral, and Oliver Jole had been part of a consensually polyamorous relationship during much of Cordelia and Aral’s marriage. This is a curve ball for fans of the series, because it had previously been implied that Cordelia and Aral were monogamous.
Initially, I thought that the existence of a previous relation was a problem because it’s sprung on us out of nowhere. I didn’t have a moral issue with it, and I didn’t think it weakened my view of Cordelia and Aral’s commitment to each other, but I did think it was a hard sell in terms of plot plausibility. However, I warmed to it after a reader posted a list on Goodreads of all the times that Oliver popped up in the series (well done, astute reader!). He’s always been in the background, not playing a very active role or saying much, but clearly a significant figure in Aral’s life based on where he appears in the scenes. Much of the series is told from Miles Vorksigan’s point of view. Miles is Aral and Cordelia’s son, and the hero of most of the books,and he comes home from various locales sporadically, usually with a lot on his mind. Miles is observant, so it makes sense that he would notice Oliver’s presences, but he’s also pretty absorbed in his own dramas, so it makes sense that he wouldn’t think much about Oliver’s presence in detail. Cordelia, Aral, and Jole kept the relationship a secret for political and personal reasons, so the relationship surprises Miles as much as it surprises the reader.
It’s been previously established (over and over again) that Cordelia’s home planet is much more sexually permissive than Aral’s. It’s also been previously established that Aral is bisexual. Some of Cordelia’s comments can be construed as suggesting that she thinks that if a person is bisexual then they are going to need to have sex with both men and women. At one point she says, “I knew Aral was bisexual when I married him. And he knew I was Betan. Melodrama was never an option.” Her comment is ambiguous – it could simply be intended to point out that she wasn’t surprised that Aral might be attracted to a man, and that she is culturally prone to accept an open relationship. However, it does carry an implication that bisexuals are prone to infidelity, and this bothers me because it reinforces the myth that bisexuals are fated to be more promiscuous than other people.
While romance is an important story, Oliver’s biggest question isn’t whether he wants to renew his sexual relationship with Cordelia, but rather whether he wants to become a father. He’s offered reproductive material by Cordelia at the same time that he’s offered a job promotion. It’s a great promotion for his career, but given the extremely long hours involved, it’s not conducive to single parenting. So one of the plot threads is a man considering giving up his career in order to have a family, which I found to be DELIGHTFUL. I am pretty big on the idea of making family a priority, but I am sick of the “should I choose career or family” story being exclusively about women.
I also loved the second chance quality of this romance. I’m old enough now to have seen from friends and family what widowhood looks like. I love it that Cordelia’s plans to renew her life after three years of mourning are not based on anything that Oliver might or might not do – she knows what life she wants and it’s her turn to have it. The loss of Aral permeates every page, but Cordelia does not intend to lose the rest of her own life. She also adores her sons and her grandchildren and her daughters-in-law, but her life doesn’t revolve around her descendents (somewhat to their consternation). So much of her life has been defined by her relationship with Aral, and now it can be defined entirely by herself. It’s not a kind of freedom she wanted but she’s not going to waste it.
I was less interested in Oliver and Cordelia’s romantic life than I was with their professional lives and their efforts to move beyond them. However, Oliver and Cordelia are a delightful couple. Aside from some hilarious missed signals at flirting, they have an ease with each other that can only come from long association. They are older people who have hot sex, although scientist Cordelia can’t shut up and stop analyzing it during the act. Aside from those initial crossed signals, they don’t deal in misunderstandings – they don’t have time in both the sense that they are both insanely busy and the sense that they both realize that their lives are at least half over.
During the week that I read this book, two things happened – I got confirmation of where my daughter will be attending Middle School in the fall and I went to the funeral of my friend’s husband (they had been together for forty years). So the future was very much on my mind, as was the theme of surviving radical change. This book paints a positive picture of life after the life one imagined for oneself is over. Cordelia’s whole life revolved around politics, her husband, and her son. Now her son is grown up and her husband is dead and she has a chance to move on from politics, so she has to envision a new life or stagnate. Oliver always assumed he’d be single and childless and devoted to career, but suddenly he has the opportunity to picture a different kind of life, which would have costs and rewards that he has never before considered.
So many romances are about the beginning of adult life. The protagonists of romances are often (but not always, of course) in their twenties or maybe their early thirties, starting their first families together. These romances are about first beginnings. Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen is about second beginnings. While you are in the middle of your first story, it’s hard to picture anything past that, but barring accidents we all grow and change and have multiple lives within one single life. Whether we have children or not, marry or stay single, all of us go through periods where we have to take stock and say, “Well, now what?” This book promises that that question can have an answer. The romance between Oliver and Cordelia was a hard sell for me, but I was won over purely because of the thrill of being presented with such a sexy and affirming picture of the later part of middle age and after.
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I read the Baen eARC and have been waiting anxiously for the chance to discuss the story.
I’m ambivalent about a couple of things; the way bi-sexuality is presented is distorted I think and consistently so in the series, and the beginning of Aral and Oliver’s relationship as reported. Open relationships work because of communication and agreement, not the presenting of a fait accompli.
I thought the story presented the present time evolution of relationships and futures nicely but think Mark is missing from the narrative. It’s all about Miles’ reactions. I do have an issue with what seems a consistent authorial choice in post Civil Campaign books to blind side Miles and then blame him for his adjustment reaction. I really enjoyed the glimpses of Sergyar as a place that is very different from Barrayar.
What I wanted was some sense of how the Barrayaran and Sergyaran families were to grow their connections. I have a friend who is the youngest of fourteen children. Her eldest siblings are distant from her – of another generation almost and with different life experiences. They were well out of the house and so from her life growing up, her connection is with their children. I was thinking of this as the story ended and wondering what sense they would have of themselves as a clan whether Vorkosigan or Kosigan.
I too read the arc and have looked forward to hearing other peoples comments.
My overall reaction is – I think this is a book Lois wanted to write, but not one I wanted to read.
I have tremendous respect for her as an author,so I will not waste time wishing she had written a story more like Memory or The Mountains of Mourning. I think it is beyond rude to tell authors what they should write!
But somewhere around mid-book when Miles appeared, I had almost convinced myself that Cordelia was in a medically-induced, post-menopausal coma dreaming up legions of children and grand children, while Miles and Jole investigated corrupt military suppliers and Cetagandan spies. Just imagine my disappointment….
As for Aral and Jole…I recognized the possibility in prior books, but assumed they both would play safe to avoid blackmail. In my version, Cordelia borrowed Jole’s uniforms to play dress-up.
I would not want to be Cordelia when the hormones of those six daughters kicks in! Like R E G, I don’t think this is the book for me.
Several of Bujold’s books and stories are about characters taking their lives on new paths. I enjoyed seeing that in this book – Cordelia retiring to have the horde of children she’d wanted, Oliver taking a completely new path that he’s passionate about. One of my favorite books in the series is “Memory” in which Miles has to remake his life. That said, this isn’t my favorite, or even one of my top few, in the series. But I’m glad I read it; and it was enjoyable having Miles be as boggled by his elders as they have been by him.
My guy and I fell in love over this series, and no joke, we want to name our kid miles Simon. It’s that serious for us. Bombshell much in this book? Yes… But we’re in a relationship like that ourselves, so it was like she solidified everything we love about her stories. I liked that it wasn’t chasing bad guys or dealing with anything outside of daily life, medicine, relationships, sex, understanding and revelation. Life. That’s how it happens for all of us, whether we acknowledge it or not. I don’t rank these books as faves or not. I rank them as part of life, chapters that open and shut, lead to things. She made a bold statement in this book, and it felt good to me, right, real. I’m biased, maybe, but I’m also human, and she strives to make her characters human too. With mistakes and pasts. Arl wasn’t perfect. But he was loved anyway by many. That’s what I got out of this. We love
I sometimes think Bujold could write a shopping list that I’d like to read. So I was really anticipating this one.
It wasn’t the book I expected. I kept waiting for an explosion of some sort (figurative or literal) which never happened. I liked it well enough reading it the first time around.
But when I reread it, I really enjoyed it. All my preconceptions about what it should have been were gone and I could enjoy it for what it was. Probably part of that enjoyment is that I’m not longer the young mother I was when the series first came out.
Lois has said that she thinks people should be able to enjoy this book without the background from the other books (otherwise she hasn’t done one of her jobs as author). It’s hard for me to lose that preconception, but I think it might work as well.
So, not my favorite of the series (yes, Civil Campaign for me, too), but one I think I’ll go back and reread.
I’ve loved this series for awhile now, and this book seems totally a departure from the series, though it’s true that Bujold never follows a formula (why I love it, right there).
However, I’ve got to say that this is absolutely not an entry point for the series. Without a thorough background in the Vorkosigan universe, I suspect this novel would be head-spinningly confusing with all its references to the complicated past. The only thing that might be more irritating would be the seeming plotlessness of this collection of insider references. I may chuckle at every reference to shopping or tear up at Rosemont’s grave, but for a new reader. . . no.
To tell the truth, I made a point of rereading several of the novels before tackling this one, most notably Cordelia’s Honor and A Civil Campaign. Also Cetaganda, just because I like it. I’m very glad I did. Reading Cordelia’s Honor in particular made the underlying structures of Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen much clearer. So many arcs barely identifiable in the first books in the series are brought to extremely satisfying conclusions. For instance, Jole’s ultimate choice of a career reflects the values of Cordelia’s original mission to Sergyar rather than those of militaristic Barrayar.
The tone of Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen is almost contemplative and serves as a wake for Aral Vorkosigan as much as a romance for Cordelia and Oliver. And I guess, as a reader, I needed that, after Cryoburn. The introduction of a three-sided relationsip was kind of hard to get my head around. Cordelia comments at one point (and I paraphrase) that while the sexual aspect of the relationship would be acceptable to a Betan, the age and power differentials would not. So much to think about. Although I had reservations about the pacing and style of this latest book, I found myself mulling it over for days after I finished it. Whatever else Bujold accomplished with this book, she made me think, and I look forward to revisiting the Vorkosigan universe in future.
And just think – Miles gets to deal with SIX much younger sisters and Oliver’s sons … who they know are his half-brothers, but this probably won’t be made public. I can imagine there will be fun when Miles’ own six, plus Cordelia’s six, plus Oliver’s three gang up on the grown-ups.
This is from my Goodreads review: I’ve seen several reviews from die-hard Vorkosigan fans crying foul that Lois McMaster Bujold is ret-conning the relationship between Aral and Cordelia and betraying the series’ integrity. As a casual reader of the series, I don’t have such serious loyalty to Vorkosigan canon. I found this book to be a charming, beautiful reflection on grief, aging, love and parenting. The plot is heavy on relationships and light on swashbuckling action, but it is still filled with trademark Bujold humor and wisdom. And what a pleasure to read about a sexual relationship between two adults of a mature age that isn’t played for laughs.
Yes, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen provides a different perspective on the relationship between Aral and Cordelia that began in Shards of Honor and that may make some readers uncomfortable. But watching Cordelia find happiness again (not to mention having a glimpse of Miles Vorkosigan’s bewilderment at being father of six) is a very satisfying experience.
I actually came to this series via some Doctor Who fanfic (The Countess and the Doctor). And I fell in love with Cordelia right there. Gallifreyan angst, meet Betan therapy. Totally necessary. (I kept hoping it would happen in canon, so I could go back to watching the show without throwing up in my mouth a little.) So I read EVERYTHING BUJOLD. And I love it. She’s now my favorite author.
But this book! WOW
The bi and poly parts weren’t a surprise, really. And, with Cordelia mentioning “Aral with one of his hopeless crushes,” I pretty much figured they’d had the Consent Discussion that Ferrett talks about in his blogs (“You know, Aral, if you want to start a relationship with that fellow, and you’re both comfortable with it, I am comfortable with it”) earlier, long before Jole himself was in the picture.
What I really liked was how Bujold kept Miles from taking over the book. This is Cordelia’s story, kiddo, and she’s not adverse to elbowing him out of her choices. She’s carefully thought through the political ramifications, the medical ramifications, the financial ramifications–she’s even thought through the interpersonal ones. She just doesn’t know how Miles is gonna leap every time. (She was wrong about him choosing the little Admiral, after all.)
With all the losses I’ve been going through (public and private) in the past few years, this book has really hit me hard. Necessarily so. How do you move on after such an immense loss (and I like that she doesn’t call it untimely. Just immense)? Where do you go when the world you had planned for yourself isn’t the world that can be, anymore?
I’ve learned a lot about people via the Vorkosigan books, over time. More than I’ve ever learned about people via literary fiction. And this is a topography I’ve been stuck in for a while. Having a fictional person get out of the crevasse is…inspiring.
I’m sorry other people didn’t want or need this book.
I sure did. And I’m glad it’s in the world.
I’m going to have to go back and reread the series after these two excellent reviews – Adm. Jole’s name had sounded familiar, but I don’t recall him from the past. I wasn’t really surprised about Jole’s relationship to Aral – Aral is known to have had sexual relationships within marriage before, and it hasn’t seemed to me that Barrayaran honor includes fidelity on the part of the male – or that it started while Cordelia was gone. Her acceptance of it also didn’t surprise me (she is Betan after all), but it sounded like it took her awhile to share physical intimacy with Jole and Aral.
I loved the focus on relationships and life and love’s aspects. I see Cordelia protecting both Miles and Mark by choosing to have only girls. I would have enjoyed watching Mark watch Miles deal with everything.
I feel that the big explosions in this book came from the emotions of the characters. Worlds were still remade in this book, they were just inner ones that affected much fewer people. I can’t wait to see how Cordelia’s actions once again affect Barrayar. It really was a lovely way to say goodbye to Aral. Ms. Bujold did an outstanding job of circling around to close the Aral arc and launch Cordelia on a new life path.
I’m looking forward to reading this book and knowing the spoiler I think will help because I’ll be better ready to see how its handled. I trust Bujold when it comes to relationships and I adore Cordelia and want to know her story.
I appreciate pointing out all the different genres of these books, I hadn’t seen it spelled out so clearly before. The ones I tend to reread are the mystery/political/romance ones and that meant I enjoyed Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance more than some others did. Thank you for these dual reviews, I’m looking forward to having another view of this world I love.
When I realized this was a Cordelia book, I went back and reread Cordelia’s Honor before digging in, since it’s been more than a decade. In Barrayar there is a line where Cordelia says something like “he was bisexual, now he’s monogamous.” So yeah, I was a little taken aback by the revelation of Jole.
But Bea said, I took the mention of the previous crushes to hopefully mean that Aral and Cordelia had already had a Consent Discussion. It isn’t stated, but that would be far more in keeping with Aral’s honor than springing it on Cordelia after the fact.
Once I got past the “wait, what?” I did enjoy it.
And now I’m working my way through the big pile of Vorkosigan omnibuses that came on a disc in one of the hardbacks years ago. 🙂 Though I always thought it was funny that Memory was the one book someone forgot to put in an omnibus when they otherwise did the whole series at the time, including standalone books in the same universe.
No news that infidelity is no question of “honor” for males, only women are expected to tow the line or else, & of course be very understanding of their lords and masters peccadilloes. No advanced civilization or science fiction needed for this.
Thanks for the reviews, will pass the whole series.
Perhaps I didn’t make the romance angle clear – Cordelia and Aral were both in a consensual three-way relationship with Jole. Nothing one-sided about it..
As a long time reader of the series, I seriously loved this book: as I believe Bujold mentioned, it’s a book about grown ups. And one thing that Bujold has never done in the VORKOSIGAN series is stick to a genre, even when she was writing the best that that genre has to offer.
Just to note that I believe it was made pretty clear that Cordelia and Aral had had discussions prior to Aral taking up with Jole – when talking with Jole about how she found out about him and and Aral:
“”The only surprise was that you two ever got past all your Barrayaran inhibitions in the first place” Not that she and Aral hadn’t discussed Oliver in theory.”
And that openness is consistent with their relationship and both their personalities. I do believe that Aral would have been sexually faithful to Cordelia if that was what she wanted and needed, but it’s clear that Cordelia didn’t have any such hang ups. From the sounds of things, she had her fair share of enjoyment as well with Jole.
I’ve been reading the Vorkosigan series since it first came out. I must say that Cordelia’s Honor (as separate books) are my favorites. She had great strength and resilience to tackle a culture like Aral’s. And, Miles had his challenges as THE son to a GREAT MAN. Consistently Bujold has thrown us for a loop with this series–example Mark, Mile’s clone. Cordelia accepts him totally from the beginning thus cementing her Betan sensibilities in the reader’s mind. I’ve waited eagerly through the advanced release for this book.
I too was shocked at the revelation of the triad relationship at first. But again from Cordelia’s point of view it was totally fine and natural with Aral’s sexual tastes. The emotions, the grownup decisions being pondered in this book far, far replace any shocking revelations in your mind. I don’t know if younger readers can understand how hard it is to find a romance (much less science fiction!) that deals seriously and matter-of-fact-ly with the challenges of aging women much less aging couples. A worthy wrapup to the series but…..please can we have some more! Miles with a greatly expanded and complicated family. Poor Mark coping so very, very hard with new challenges. And, the kids, the kids. Already I’m half in love with Miles son and so lucky to have Cordelia as a grandma. I echo the other reviewers to read other parts of the series first but DO read this very interesting romance.
I think this is the first Bujold I’ve ever read where no one was ever in serious danger of losing their life, so that took some mental adjustment. The rest I was willing to roll with. Seriously, I kept waiting for another Cetagandan attack or some political assassination attempt or geological disaster or something, until Miles’ family showed. Bujold has promised Miles she won’t put his kids in danger, so I knew violence was off the table at that point.
So it was pretty much about relationships. The polyamory didn’t slow me down, barely even surprised me, really, but the incipient parenthood – wow! That’s actually a hard decision for me to wrap my head around, but I never have been as strong as Cordelia.
I’m looking forward to rereading this.
I think this is Bujold’s farewell to writing. This is the other bookend for Shards of Honor. There are lots of flashbacks tying up ends with lots of characters.
Actually I think this is the 3rd of a trilogy. Miles becoming the Count with Aral dying in Cryoburn, then Ivan ending his playboy days in Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance, and now Cordelia’s moving on after Aril’s death.
My biggest problem with the book wasn’t the primary relationship, but with the lack of a compelling B-plot. I really thought the plasticrete thingy was going somewhere, and then it didn’t. The other romance-oriented books in the Vorkosigan Saga all gave us intriguing sub-plots.
Falling Free deals with the political and ethical repercussions of genetically modifying people. Shards of Honor deals with war and politics. Civil Campaign has Mark and the Butterbugs, Lord Dono, and the Imperial Wedding. Vorpatril’s Alliance has the Cetagandan mystery. This book had none of that. No humor, no mystery, no politics, nothing. I found that disappointing.
Yay! I’m always a bucket of squee when the Bitchery talk about the Vorkisiverse. @Merrian — I’m pretty sure Mark already knew. This isn’t my favorite in the series but I really liked it. it is quiet and unassuming, but strong. @GatorPerson I am hoping that it is both a bookend and a prelude — I would really like to know what happens to the earnest Cetagandan hipster refugee plumber. @Ulrike – he was a little funny, right? In all seriousness, there is hopefully some set up here for things to come…
Well, like a lot of people, the 3-way relationship shocked me, because I felt it was a betrayal of Cordelia. However, Cordelia was fine with it, and probably discussed it with Aral beforehand (she did have that statement about discussing it “in theory” before Aral approached Oliver). I also wasn’t comfortable with the sexual harassment angle of Aral and Oliver’s relationship.
Emotionally, I found the book less than compelling, as it’s mostly about parenting issues; I’m not a parent and never had a desire to be one. So I found it hard to identify with Cordelia’s desire to start a new family at age 76, even if that means middle age to a Betan. The romance was nice, but undramatic (as befits mature participants); I think my favorite part was Cordelia helping her grandson, Alex, get on the road to owning his own dreams, rather than being subject to Miles’s. (Surprise, he doesn’t want to go into the military! I hope Helen becomes the first female admiral in the Barrayaran fleet.)
I do think GatorPerson has a good point about Cryoburn, Captain Vorpatril and GJ&TRQ being a trilogy of farewell, but I hope it’s not her farewell to writing. Myself, I long to see her complete her 5-gods Universe set, which are my favorite fantasy books of all time.
@Mochabean – The characters were all fine. It’s Bujold, of course they were.
Oh, I forgot one thing that I did find squicky: Cordelia using the same nickname for her kid, her grandkid, and her lover. When she called Jole “kiddo”, it felt icky to me.
Vorkosigrrl, re: “I felt it was a betrayal of Cordelia” – why? Why betrayal? Non-monogamous relationship is not the same thing as cheating.
Honestly, for the longest time I didn’t want to ever touch any of those books just because of that horrible “was bisexual, now he’s monogamous” line, and I’m so glad it turned out not to be true, after all.
I finished reading Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen last night. And it made me want to reread the entire series.
I used to read the Vorkosigan books at least once a year and I realised that I’ve not read them since Cyroburn came out. Not even Memory which is my favourite book (if you made me narrow it down to just one book!)
I really enjoyed catching up with Cordelia and the friends and family and I’m hoping this isn’t LMB’s swan song. Fingers crossed anyway.
And boy I wish there was a fly on the wall moment for when Gregor or indeed Miles received her news.
The triad of Aral, Cordelia and Oliver is nothing alarming. As she said long ago, as a Betan she was both aware of, and had no problem with, Aral’s bisexuality. Nor did I ever have a problem with it. And Jole, though he appeared only in cameos, was always made out to be the best of the best, in every imaginable way.
Two issues I do have: First, I like the Buck Rogers-type action/adventure of her previous books. Even “A Civil Campaign” had enough intrigue with Byerly and Dono and Richars and the Vorrutyer countship contest to keep it exciting in that regard. “Cryoburn” left me wanting, and I never read “Winterfair Gifts” all the way through, so I can’t speak to that one. But the rest all had what felt to me like enough swashbuckling to keep it interesting.
And Second, as open-minded as I am about any kind of consensual sexual or romantic relationship among adults, I didn’t get the impression that Aral and Jole’s consummation was initially consensual. Sounded like cheating on his wife while she was out. The fact that she approved after-the-fact still doesn’t make it consensual, in my mind.
Though Bujold is one of my two favorite authors, “Gentleman Jole And The Red Queen” is my second-least favorite of her novels, after “Cryoburn”.
Atlanta Mirror Framer, you express my feelings very well!
Just a note, Bujold intended that the Aral/Jole relationship have Cordelia’s consent all along. When the eARC responses indicated confusion, she added a line (“Not that they hadn’t discussed Oliver in theory“) to be more clear that Aral had Cordelia’s blessing before approaching Oliver.
I just read both of these reviews and I’m with RevMiranda. I read the e-arc ages ago and am still feeling unsettled by the book. I mean, I like the writing but I don’t feel like I like the characters any more, if that makes sense.
Erm, make that RevMelinda, sorry.
Having just read an article linking author age with author reaction to fanfiction (Gabaldan’s ‘makes me want to barf’ vs Bujold’s ‘have fun!’) I would be really curious to attach demographics to reactions to this book. It’s a story about older folks but some style and substance elements really aim it at a younger worldview.
Social moires change; our understandings of appropriate behavior are shaped by our peers. As that other essay pointed out, Bujold is on the progressive side for her age group on fanfic, as well as other liberal values. She was and is very imbedded in fan culture early and late; not so much in the current gender/sexuality/identity discourse, I think.
I find it interesting to see both older(I assume) folks wince at foreign concepts, (“triad marriage” strikes me as old fashioned, as well as outsider, terminology) and younger(again assumption) folks wince at foreign turns of phrase (‘bisexual, now monogamous.’)
Another interesting dimension would fanfic exposure- folks have mentioned romance, but really the genre this book fits best is curtain-fic.
The essay I mention is from an anthology on LMB by Janet Croft; only read a couple so far, decent but not particularly new ideas for me. Kinda more descriptive than analytical, not what I was looking for.
I just finished my first read of Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen, and unlike many of the commentors here, I didn’t find myself all wrapped up around the polyamory aspect. I think some readers find this aspect so overpowering because they somehow weren’t expecting it — and despite recent advances in Western cultural perspectives, such things as bisexuality and polyamory still invoke some gut-level, culturally-instilled revulsion in many people. Even when those people work hard to overcome their imposed prejudices.
I found the polyamory piece a quite well-crafted tool with which to introduce a believable process through which Cordelia could be tempted to a new (well, sort of new) partner-type relationship After Aral. It works as well as it does because it points out that both Oliver and Cordelia were essentially going through the same mourning experience, and Bujold uses that common ground, in addition to their earlier affinity, as a way of getting them together, as well as derailing the plans they each brought to Page One.
To be honest, what I *didn’t* like about the book was that it wasn’t a dramatic narrative in any way, more of a character study. The piece features a series of protagonists, at minor odds with each other but all on the same side. The biggest dramatic concern was whether or not Miles would accept Oliver as his Da’s former lover, and deserving of fathering Miles’ half-brothers. What I *really* wanted to see was Miles stubbornly refusing to accept Oliver as Aral’s lover, up until a slip of the tongue would have revealed that Jole had shared a wonderful week of intimacy with Miles’ old flame (?!), Bel Thorne. The realization that two of the not-women he had loved the most in his younger years, Aral and Bel, each loved Oliver (in Bel’s case, in a deliciously salacious sense, more than romantic), could have been a clever way for Bujold to break Miles out of a somewhat stodgy Barrayaran mindset in re anything beyond monogamous heterosexuality.
Is this Bujold’s last dip into her Vorkosiverse? I would hope not — she has never felt obliged to write the pieces of that universe in any kind of chronological order, after all. There may be some excellent stories to tell of Miles at 12, or the Third Cetagandan War (about which we finally learn a tiny bit, here). But… there is one *enormous* hook upon which Bujold has hung the seeds of another whole aspect of her universe. Paraphrasing:
“We all live at the pleasure and mercy of the Cetagandan haut. Which begs the question, why haven’t they wiped us out, as efficiently as we know they can, at any time they choose?”
I’m looking forward to seeing how she might resolve that concept. And I get the feeling that it might be Lord — or Count — Alex that gets to deal with it. Perhaps as the first Barrayaran count or count’s heir to take a Cetagandan (ghem or haut) as a bride…?
Doug
I didn’t DISLIKE this book, but I did find it frustrating. Less frustrating than Captain Vorpatril’s Alliance, perhaps, but it was still an odd reading experience.
Wrt CVA (spoilers ahoy!) – I was glumly resigned to the probability that Bujold would not have Byerly and Ivan get together, charming though that would be; I was not prepares to see Byerly straightwashed into a relationship with a woman, and I will not be getting over that any time soon. And I say that as a bisexual! But when THE ONLY positive portrayals of desire are constantly defaulting to het pairings, then damn right I want to see that a character can be shown as getting together with/being attracted to their own gender without also being an evil lunatic. Byerly didn’t need to be “cured” by a vagina, but that’s what his plotline smacks of, afaics. (End spoilers)
Similarly, I am sanguine enough about Aral having enjoyed a poly triad marriage, but pretty goddamn frustrated that, once again, on the page all the queerness is neatly tidied away. Just like his previous relationship, we only hear about this after the event.
It’s all well and good to say how nice that Cordelia and Oliver are starting a new chapter – what I’m seeing is a retcon created in order to let Cordelia move neatly and guiltlessly from one heterosexual relationship to the next, without having to deal with writing queer characters being queer in anything but rosy glasses of nostalgia. Who can Cordelia move on to without seeming like a disloyal bitch? Aha! What if we retcon a boytoy for Aral? Then she’s not being disloyal at all! Simples!
I would infinitely rather have READ THAT BOOK – the book at showed me Aral falling for Oliver, and discussing it with his wife, and the seduction and the messy hilarity of reorganising their lives around becoming a triad.
I understand that Bujold wanted to write a book about older people starting new chapters, and eschew melodramatic romance tropes. And that’s fine – but because she did that via a barely sketched in backstory retconning a monogamous het marriage as a poly triad, I’m left feeling like she’s pulled a fast one.
At the start of their marriage, some Vor asshole tried to shock Cordelia with the revelation of Aral’s bisexuality thus:
He’s bisexual, you know.” He took a delicate sip of his wine.
“Was bisexual,” she corrected absently, looking fondly across the room. “Now he’s monogamous.”
And that interchange always stuck in my head as a boggling look at what Bujold thinks bisexuality is. This book seems, on the face of it, to address this odd misapprehension, since of course there is no WAS just because Aral has wed a woman – but again, it seems that Bujold doesn’t understand that bisexuality and polyamory are DIFFERENT THINGS.
Nic, interesting insights. Thanks for putting in your two cents!
I’m another male bisexual, and I’ve known it since puberty (well, I knew I was male before that). But I had no idea my life was going to lead me first into a relationship with a man and then a 40-year marriage, with a 15-year relationship with a woman embedded into that. (My Lord Peter / piffle nick is “a mistress as well as a wife”, from Thrones, Dominations.) I’m establishing my cred just to say that there are lots of ways to be bisexual. Yes, Cordelia says “was bisexual” and that’s a mistake, whether the character’s or the author’s I don’t know. But I read “now he’s monogamous” with emphasis on the “now”, right at this minute he’s not seeing anyone (i.e. his relationship with Jole hasn’t started).
Did I ask my wife before I started my romantic relationship with my other SO? No. I had general consent in advance, of course, but my OSO and I actually met in a mental hospital, and I talked to my wife about it after we both came out (in more ways than one!) We negotiated the ground rules at that point, not that there was much to negotiate.
Odd, but I don’t remember the scene where Cordelia says ‘was bisexual, now he’s monogamous’. What I do remember is her deflecting his verbal attack/accusation of bisexuality with the riposte of ‘why are you trying to divide us’. Paraphrased, of course. But now I’ll have to go re-read the entire series… LOL, such a difficult thing to do.
I love LMB and the Vorkosigan ‘verse. It took me two readings to love GJ&tRQ – but what I initially missed was the hyperactivity of Miles (and all the things that occur simply because he happens to be in the room). I liked Cordelia and Oliver pairing, not because they both had loved Aral but because they found in each other a companion to share an unknown future.