What do we talk about in this episode?
- Attending DJ school and how her love of music found its way into her writing
- Her work as an adjunct professor of American Sign Language
- The importance of showing, not telling, in every aspect
- When did our feelings about phone calls change so much?
- Plus Jen has advice on meditating and caring for yourself, every part of yourself.
❤ Read the transcript ❤
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Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:
You can find JN Welsh on her website, JNWelsh.com.
We also talked about:
- Her Spotify playlist
- Scratch DJ Academy
- The Calm App
- The viral sign language final exam video of Anna performing “Fuck You”
- Bob Marley: “Sun is Shining”
- Bob Marley: “Sun is Shining” dubstep remix
- Kaskade: “I Remember”
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This Episode's Music
The music you’re listening to was provided by Sassy Outwater, and you can find her on Twitter @Sassyoutwater. This is a band called Sketch, and this is “Oidhche Boogie” from their album ShedLife.
You can find it on Amazon, iTunes, or wherever you buy your most excellent music.
Podcast Sponsor
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Transcript
❤ Click to view the transcript ❤
[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 372 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and with me today is JN Welsh. I have sat next to JN Welsh at several book signings – because that’s how the alphabet works: Wendell, Welsh – and I’ll be honest, when you’re in the Ws you’re at the far side of the room, you have all of the AC, and we have really fun conversations, so I thought you might like to listen in.
We’re going to talk about so many different things. We talk about DJ school, we talk about meditation, and we talk about her job as an adjunct professor of sign language. There’s a lot to enjoy. I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation as much as I enjoy sitting next to her at book signings.
This podcast is being brought to you by Fallen by Rebecca Zanetti, and prepare your catnip bingo cards for the following description. Okay, you got your pencils? You ready? All right, here we go: bestselling author Rebecca Zanetti’s second Deep Ops, Fallen, is sharp and dynamic, raves the New York Times. Brimming with action, suspense, and sensual tension, a talented hacker turns security consultant, and her FBI-appointed bodyguard must fake an engagement in order to clear her father’s name from a high-profile mob scandal. Fallen by Rebecca Zanetti is on sale wherever books are sold. For more information, visit rebeccazanetti.com.
Every episode of this here podcast receives a transcript, and every transcript is hand-compiled by garlicknitter. Thank you, garlicknitter! This week’s transcript is being underwritten by the podcast Patreon community. Thank you! [Thanks from me too! – gk] If you’ve supported the show with a monthly pledge, you are making sure that every episode is accessible, and I and many other people appreciate that very, very much!
If you would like to join the Patreon community and support the show, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges, one dollar a month at the starting level, and there’s so many opportunities to support the show. So thank you in advance for your consideration, and thank you to the Patreon community for making sure this episode has a transcript.
I will have information at the end of the episode about the music we are listening to, about what’s coming up on Smart Bitches next week, I’ll have an absolutely terrible joke, and of course I will have links to all of the books and music that we talk about in this episode.
So let’s get started! On with my interview with JN Welsh.
[music]
JN Welsh: My name is JN Welsh, and I write romance, contemporary romance, featuring multicultural women of color, mostly interracial, and these women are looking for love, mostly in the big city, and it’s very humorous, so I feel like the, that is kind of like who I am as an author? On the other side of my life, I’m an educator, a wellness warrior, and a professor!
Sarah: You do a lot of things!
JN: I do! [Laughs] I do. I think that that just kind of comes naturally with, like, interests –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – and what it is that you want to do and how, when you’re, like, going one direction you can always find other opportunities that come your way.
Sarah: Yes, and if you’re open to them, you recognize them.
JN: Yeah! You do definitely have to be open to them, or else you’ll just – it’s so interesting, because when you’re, if you ever sit down and say, okay, now I want to reinvent myself, you forget a whole spectrum of things that you can do, and you just focus on maybe what you’re academically trained in or what you’re doing now as that set of skills, and that’s all you have, but it’s not. It can, it, it can be so much broader than that if we just kind of take a minute to, like, think and brainstorm and say, hey, you know, I’m actually quite social, so maybe I can do something like, on that, like, on that side of career spectrum. We don’t think in those super-broad terms, you know? We only think about –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – what’s present, so.
Sarah: And it’s also hard sometimes to recognize how an interest that you have can be something that you pursue, and sometimes recognizing that you have an interest and that you want to pursue it doesn’t necessarily mean you need to make it a job or, or monetize it or leverage or do any of those buzzy words. You could just do something to enjoy it.
JN: Yes! Exactly! So many things! Like, I love music, but I can’t see myself –
Sarah: Oh, I couldn’t tell at all from the topics of your books.
JN: [Laughs]
Sarah: That’s a complete surprise to me!
JN: Right! I now have a, who knew? But it’s like I wouldn’t, I don’t think that I would ever, like, go into the music industry, because it’s so, it’s, I think it’s, it, it can be great, but I also, you also hear, like, so many things about it, and I feel like it, like, being act-, like, doing the work –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – in the industry would ruin my love for the music, so I just kind of like want to just be, I mean, I just want to enjoy music for what it is and what it can bring to my life and how excited I get and all the other things that are around it as, as a, as a consumer of music instead of someone who, like, either creates music or is in the industry or –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – you know, that kind of thing, so.
Sarah: Is that what led you to writing romances set in the EDM world?
JN: Yes! It definitely started out with an interest. Like, I was, you know, I was writing before that; I was doing, like, some romantic suspense. I put, you know, did, like, short stories and an, another contemporary that wasn’t set in, in a mus-, in the music world, but –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – I was literally at home minding my own business – [laughs] – and turned on the TV, and I saw this electronic DJ on, and his name was Kaskade, and I was just listening to the music, and I was like, oh my goodness, this is so beautiful! This, like, the lyrics, the music, and even though it was electronic, it was so, like, universal. It was specific to electronic, but it was just like a universal feel-good song and very warm and very emotional, and I was like, I love this! And growing up, I think we all have had some exposure to, like, techno or trip house or anything like that’s –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: – in the clubs. Like, we’ve heard electronic music in some shape or form, but when he played it, and he was, like, the DJ on the stage, and I must have missed that whole period of time –
[Laughter]
JN: – where DJs became, like, the sole, like the artist on stage that you, that you stand there and watch, and he was playing to a crowd, and it was just so great, and I was like, oh, I have to know who this guy is; I have to know what the song is, and so that led me down the rabbit hole to go find out what the song was, who he was, who – you know, and he’s amazing – who he worked with on that song, who was deadmau5 [pronounced “dead mouse”], if anybody knows him.
Sarah: Yep.
JN: He did a song, like, that was really popular called “Raise Your Weapon” that had, like, a sick drop in it that was like, it’s just a lovely song, and then to, like, have this sick drop that was like wow, this is amazing? So you’ve got to kind of love them for that, and that’s kind of like, you know, it’s like you’re sitting there, and you’re ruminating and saying, what if a DJ – [laughs] –
Sarah: Mmm!
JN: – and at first it was actually a fan – and a fan got together? And so this book, like, started out as a DJ and a fan, and then it kind of like blew up into, like, the industry, like, on its, you know, on its edits because it was like, well, how do I get them to be together? And it made more sense to have them be working together, and then it became a workplace romance, but that’s how it started, and I mean, talk about inspiration. Like, that, it, that really did inspire me, because it was like, oh my God, I love this! I just want to consume all his music – which I did – and then it just was like, oh, you know, when you’re driving, what if, what if? And –
Sarah: Yep!
JN: – I love those moments.
Sarah: And when you can match the, the, the emotion of the song to a scene?
JN: Yes! Oh my God.
Sarah: That’s, that’s hard work, but it’s so worth it!
JN: It is! So it’s, it really is worth it, and it’s, you know, like, you know, when you see – [laughs] – I mean, on Twitter and you see authors, like, with GIFs, like, crying because they finally figured out a scene, like, it, it literally is like that, because you’re like, wow, how, how can I translate this on paper?
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: And get –
Sarah: How do I write down this emotion?
JN: How can I, how can I get people to feel this? Because, you know, people will say, oh yeah, I went to a show and it, and it definitely, like, feels like it, but if you’ve never been to a show, if you’ve never been to a club, how do you, how do I get that person to, like, buy into where they are and really kind of lose themselves in that moment? And it was hard work, but it was definitely worthwhile.
Sarah: So have you always been a romance reader? Is that part of what led you into the genre?
JN: Yes. I was, I, like, when I was younger, I ingested, like, all books, and then books –
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: – like, all books. Like, I remember, do you remember – I, I might be dating myself, but you know, like, these forms from Scholastic, and you can, like, check off the books that you wanted, and then they, the teacher would, like, get them, and then they give them to you, and then you, like –
Sarah: Yes! [Laughs]
JN: Oh my goodness! I used to tick so many books off, and then, like, before the summer was over, I think my mother was like, I don’t know what’s wrong with my child, ‘cause she, like, is just reading so much? And so then I started to, like, look at this, what was on the bookshelves, and my mother would get a lot of donations of books. Even if she wasn’t reading them she’d just get a, a lot of donations, and my sister would always have, like, these, I don’t know, these books with these couples on there and these, like, weird, like, awkward, like, looking, like, lovey and things like that, and kissing, and I was like, what’s this Harlequin thing?
[Laughter]
JN: And she was like, you can’t read that, and I was like, oh yes, I can! And so I would steal them, of course.
Sarah: Always! Either you get them from someone, or you steal them from some. [Laughs]
JN: Or you steal them. So I’d steal them and then, you know, I’d try to make the bookshelf look like, you know, it wasn’t empty, and – [laughs] – and I would read them, and I really, like, don’t, I, like, really fell in love with just reading romance, and I remember as I got older and I started to, you know, when you write notes in class because you’re bored with your friends and you started to like boys, and I remember very clearly writing with a friend of mine a note back and forth, and we were talking about what it would be like to date this boy, and then I just took it further. You know, there was conflict; there was marriage and kids and a Happily Ever After. [Laughs]
Sarah: You went all in.
JN: I went all in. I think –
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: – actually have the note that we wrote, and it’s like, it’s like, it has to be like six or seven pages of a note, and we just wrote a story out? It was so much fun, and I think that ever since then I was like, wow, I, you know, I really, I really, like, enjoyed doing that, and – but, you know, when you’re younger and everyone’s telling you to, like, you know, be a lawyer or –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – be an educator or be this or be that, because writing can’t really do, you know, things for you, you know, you sort of put it down. You put it, you put it onto the side, and it’s never, oh, I can maybe do both, or maybe I can try to see if I can put both in. You know, it’s, it’s one or the other; at least back then it was. Now I think people are a little bit more flexible with that kind of thing, so yeah. It – [laughs] – I always, like, once I, once I got into romance, I was hooked, line and sinker, hooked!
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: – was never any going back, and I always, like, read and – it took me a while to start writing, but I always read. I loved to read romance.
Sarah: It’s addictive once you start, right? It’s –
JN: It is!
Sarah: – it’s really hard to, to be, to – and it’s hard to explain to people who don’t get it, and it’s hard to put it down.
JN: Yes! Because actually people are like, well, why do you read it? And I was like, have you ever, like, really read one? And I, it’s amazing to me how many people say that they, they, they have opinions about romance, but they haven’t read romance.
Sarah: Yes.
JN: They’ve just read one romance that happened to be the one romance that was, like, maybe not as great as some of the ones that really kind of like, you know, really take you on this, this escapist journey, you know what I mean? And it’s, it’s hard to, like, put into words why we love romance, and it’s, and it’s not like we’re sitting here, women, unrealistic and saying, oh yeah, like – you know what I mean? Like, we understand that we’re reading fantasy. We really love the way that it makes us feel. We really like the stories. We – I learn so much from every romance book.
Sarah: Oh my gosh, me too.
JN: There’s just so many layers. It’s such a dynamic genre. Like, I don’t understand. Like, it, it really blows my mind when people say, oh, it’s just romance, and I’m like, wow, you are missing out!
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: [Laughs] Missing out.
Sarah: So we’ve touched on this a little bit, but your first book, In Tune, and your next book, In Rhythm, are both set in the world of EDM –
JN: Yep.
Sarah: – and they have DJ heroes, and I, I find that, like you, I find that entire performance world so interesting. What specifically led you into that world for your books? What was the point where you were like, I know exactly what I want to do with this book? I know how I want to write In Tune; I know how I want to write In Rhythm. Do you remember your entry point?
JN: I do, and it was a few different things. One was, you know, of course, once I found this DJ, I had to go and see, I had to go and see him perform, and so I went to, I remember it was Las Vegas, and he had a residency at the Cosmopolitan. I think it was Marquee at the Cosmopolitan. And I went, and I was like, okay, this is my first show. Let me go and see how this, this actually looks like. And this was just me personally.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: You know, what is the, what is the draw of bringing, of, of going to see a DJ and not just listening to the music, and they are managing so many things on the stage, but they’re also interacting with the crowd. They are, some of them actually do, like, jump around the stage and run around the stage –
Sarah: Yeah!
JN: – some things, like, pre-, prepared, and they are simultaneously, like, depending on which DJ you’re watching, simultaneously looking at the crowd and making sure that they’re, that everybody’s still engaged, so they’ll do like a call and response. There’s so much involved! [Laughs]
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: And I’m like, wow, this is exhausting. It has to be; if it’s exhausting for me to watch you and to enjoy it, it has to be exhausting for you to, like, do all this. So, you know, DJs are not just, you know, spinning vinyl records. Now they are producers who are working with, like, you know, bigger name artists and doing all these remixes. They, a lot of them say that – and it is actually, because when I was doing my research I actually went to DJ school; I went to Scratch DJ Academy, and –
Sarah: No way! That’s so cool!
JN: [Laughs] I did! A cousin of mine, she al-, has always wanted to learn how to DJ, and I was like, well, you know, I said, I really want to know also how, like – like, I grew up, every, people don’t realize, don’t know this, but my father was a DJ, so I always grew up with DJ music around, and he would, you know, he’s Jamaican, so he would play, like, at a tiny club, and he’d just, like, spin his, like, vinyl and so, and bring his crates around, so I’ve always kind of had it in my life, so it’s just sort of so interesting how I’ve come to, like, you know, still love the evolution of the DJ as they are today.
So we went to DJ school, and in actually doing it, it’s a very simple process, but the creativity is where it gets super interesting. How do you mix music? How do you find these entry points to, like, mix music? The effects that you put on it. You have to be somewhat ambidextrous. It’s, I mean, this, it’s, it just gets bigger and bigger, but the –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: – the beginning point of it is so simple, and it’s still, and it’s also a lot of fun, because you’re like, oh wow, I get to, like – [laughs] – I get to, like, spin records and, you know, do all this kind of stuff. But I think that it’s, that in terms of the entry point, I feel like learning and understanding that and really feeling, like, what it’s like to manage all that gives me, like, an edge to kind of then try to explain that on paper. If I have nothing, and all I’m doing is researching sort of like a flat document and words explaining it, I don’t really get the same feel, so I really have to get a little more tactile with it and say, okay, what does this feel like? What does the vinyl feel like? How are people doing it? Are they using Serato? Are they using CDJ? Like, what does that look like? What does that feel like? What does that allow the DJ to do when he’s not, you know, you know, focusing on the screen and can now interact with people. I, it’s just so much involved with it?
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: So I feel like, in doing my research – ‘cause I love to do research; I can sit for days. [Laughs] Months, and I think that that’s how I, I got this, this kind of like, really, like, hands-on feel for what it would be like to do that. Now I never did it in front of, like, huge crowds, right?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: ‘Cause that’s a whole other element. Like, if you’ve ever watched an awards show and they show you the perspective of the artist on stage, and you’re like, oh my God! Like, my heart stops because I’m like, these people, everybody just sitting there, just staring at you!
Sarah: [Laughs] It’s a little intimidating!
JN: And it is so intimidating, and that’s whether or not, like, you’re doing – like, you get, some people don’t even get any feedback whether or not they’re doing a good job, you know what I mean? At least with the DJ, you know, they’re bouncing up and down, and the crowd is, like, cheering them on and waving their flags. There’s just so many, you know, like, physical cues that you’re doing a good job and that they’re having a good time.
Sarah: That’s incredible.
JN: Yeah. It’s a lot of fun, I think.
Sarah: Did you get to use any of your dad’s music in DJ school?
JN: I didn’t, ‘cause – [laughs] – we have, like, a lot of the, my father’s records aren’t on, they aren’t on digital?
Sarah: Ah, that makes sense.
JN: Yeah. They aren’t on digital, and even, like, in the ter-, in terms of how I was learning, I was learning sort of like the more updated way of DJing, which is to use, like, Serato, and then you, it looks like you have, it looks like a vinyl record, but it’s all digital music, so you can change the music on the screen, and then, because you’re using a needle and a vinyl record that is sort of like connected to that, you know, it transmits to the speakers.
Sarah: Wow!
JN: So it, it’s all digital music, which is, CDJ is another one which doesn’t even use vinyl, so you can scratch and all kinds of stuff with Serato if you wanted to.
Sarah: That’s so cool!
JN: Yeah! Like, there’s so many different levels. There were, there were DJs there who just did vinyl, and so they’d have, like, these scratch competitions and things like that. My DJ teachers were pretty amazing. They’re really sweet as well, and I got a lot of, a lot of information from them and was able to kind of go to clubs and, after I learned something, see them in action? So that was, yeah.
So I couldn’t use his records, but I always, like, like, my father still plays now, but those are such, like, it’s such a, vinyl is so rich? Like, you –
Sarah: Yeah.
JN: – probably be, like, a vinyl enthusiast, and there’s still a lot of vinyl DJs out there playing, like, I wouldn’t say – you can kind of say they’re like kind of like on the underground, but they’re doing, it’s more like the purist form, and so they’re doing a lot of DJing outside of, you know, this sort of like dance music scene and just kind of like bringing people together and, you know, having fun, like, the old school way.
Sarah: What for you are the easiest and most fun parts of writing, and what parts are most challenging for you? I know you love research, so that must be both, both things, easy and challenging.
JN: [Laughs] Yeah. Yeah, ‘cause it could be like, when, when it comes to research is that there is such a thing as too much.
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: Yeah, there’s such a thing as too much, and I’m always like, this de- – you know, I’m like, I always get that kind of feedback where it’s like, you don’t really kind of need that detail. Like, you can kind of take that chunk out, you know, so.
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: But I love dialogue. I love listening to people talk? I listen a lot. [Laughs] I just love listening to, to the rhythm of people talking, so I feel like one of the things that I do really well is dialogue? And, and escalating dialogue, you know?
Sarah: Yeah.
JN: I feel like I do that, I do that pretty well. And it, you know, I try to keep it natural and funny and use everything that, you know, we kind of have today, because that just makes sense, so, like, texting and, you know, sort of, sort of the slang, the current slang things that we’re, you know, that are a little bit more universal now instead of just like, you know, certain groups using them or, you know, they’re a little bit more universal?
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
JN: So I feel like that is something that I, something that I do really well, but that I can also find challenging, because you want to make sure that the dialogue does help to, you know, move the plot along in, in a way that is natural and makes sense? And not just sort of, sort of out of the blue – oh, let’s just throw that in there because we need to have them be in, you know, in some sort of discord right now, you know? So like, I like it when it flows, just like the music, you know? Sort of like –
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: So I find that to be, that I do that well, but it’s also a little bit challenging, as well as all the detail involved with all the research that I gather.
Sarah: I would love to ask you more about DJing, because it’s such a –
JN: Please!
Sarah: – collection of skills!
JN: Yeah, please do!
Sarah: Like, there’s so much in there. How do you convey that in writing, and what are the parts of actually learning to DJ that you found to be the most interesting? Like, what part could you be like, I could do this any day; just give me the equipment; I could do this all day?
JN: Definitely, like, looking for music.
Sarah: [Laughs] Yes! It’s like research!
JN: Oh my goodness, I could, I re-, I remember, I, spending hours, and, and people know this from me, like, because when I used to – my friends know it as well, because when I used to have my, like, I used to have, do, like, barbecues, I used to do these small events at my house, so it’d be a barbecue, be a wine and cheese, and it would be, like, a, a weenie roast? [Laughs] And I spent hours looking for just play-, playlist music to play while people were there, and I would spend, like, the time of the event, and I loved doing that and putting music together and putting moods together and, like, okay, at this time, people’ve probably had a couple drinks, so they might want to, like, dance a little bit. Like –
Sarah: Yeah.
JN: – I loved doing that, and then, like, the wind-down music, you know, like, you’ve got to, kind of have to wrap it up; the neighbors might start complaining. Let’s tone it down. Like, I loved doing that and searching for music and finding new music. Like, I found, like, if anybody know, if you know dub step?
Sarah: Absolutely!
JN: So one of the songs, just a, I love Bob, there’s, there’s, my favorite Bob Marley song is called “Sun is Shining”? It is one, it is probably my, one of my, it is probably my favorite song. And I found a dub step version of that song?
Sarah: No way!
JN: I did, and it is so cool! [Laughs] It is so cool, so in doing that and being part of, you know, the DJ school and having to perform and DJ to pass the classes –
Sarah: Right.
JN: – like, I had to put music together, and I really wanted to, like, impress my teachers and, like, have people, you know, the other students in the class be like, wow, that was unexpected! You know, that I love, ‘cause it, like, it ma-, it gives me so much joy when I’m like, people are like, oh, I get it! That’s cool! And they smile, like – so I can only imagine what it’s like for a DJ who is not just pulling music but actually producing music, creating music, putting, you know, instruments and people and vocals together, and they come out with a, like a hit song, like Kaskade did with “I Remember,” which was the first song that I heard –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – and having it, like, blow up. Like, it has to feel, like, so good when people just get it, you know, because they simultaneously are getting you, you know?
Sarah: Oh yeah.
JN: It’s so, I think that’s so cool.
Sarah: And you’re creating a sort of soundscape that is the background and then later is the reason, is the thing that people are paying attention to.
JN: Right.
Sarah: That’s hard! It’s hard to go from like a background music that doesn’t overwhelm the part where, say, people are sitting and eating and can talk, to the part where the music gets louder so they can go dance. Like, that’s –
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: – that takes skill! That’s, that’s not easy.
JN: It is. So the feature is like, it’s like the music is the feature. I always say, like, oh, here’s my appetizers. These, this, this song is more like an appetizer, like, and then this –
Sarah: Oh, that’s cool.
JN: – this is, like, like the main course, you know?
Sarah: Yeah.
JN: All music for me is like, it can, like, it’s hard for me sometimes. Like, I have to put, I’d rather put on the TV and watch, put on a movie that I’ve seen like a hundred times as, like, background mu-, noise than music because I’ll get distracted by, oh my God, that song is so cool! Oh, I haven’t heard that song in a long time. Like, I’ll get distracted a little bit, but if I need, like, the mood, then I’ll really, like, put the song on so that I can hear it and be like, okay, and then I’ll turn it down, and then I’ll try to write, but it’s always the, the main course for me.
Sarah: That is fascinating!
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: Because I am the exact opposite: I can’t have words when I’m writing or working. It has to be music, and I have this massive list of music that I listen to in the background, all of these different places where I have things that I will listen to when I’m working, but I only listen when I’m working because I can’t have the television or people talking, because I’m going to start eavesdropping on all the dialogue.
[Laughter]
JN: I get it!
Sarah: Yep!
JN: I do get it. I think, I, I think had that moment when Fatal, Fatal Attraction was on, and I was like, wait a second; I haven’t seen this in, like, quite a few years, and it just became the most interesting thing to me. I was like, okay, I’ll take the break and watch a bit of it, but I have to turn it off now because it’s like, it had become new again because it’s so many years since I’d seen it, and I was like, wow! You know, when you get older and your perspectives change and then you watch a movie that you saw when you were younger, it’s so different. It’s so, it, it blows your mind. I –
Sarah: Oh yeah.
JN: – people do that, do, like, Pretty Woman if you haven’t watched it in a long time, or Fatal Attraction. Like, go get these; they’re really quite interesting. Boomerang. Like, your perspective changes as you get older, you know?
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. There are so many things that I will re-experience and look at with everything that I have learned and grown to understand now that I’m so much older, and they just look and sound so different.
JN: Yes, right?
Sarah: Sometimes in a good way.
JN: And sometimes –
Sarah: Sometimes not so much.
JN: Yes! So true.
Sarah: Yep.
JN: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So I know from sitting next to you at RWA signings, because –
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: – Team W –
JN: [Laughs] Yeah!
Sarah: – and all the air conditioning, that you are also an instructor of American Sign Language!
JN: Yes! I’m an adjunct professor at a college for American Sign Language and Deaf Culture.
Sarah: That’s incredible! How did you get started? Could you, could you share more about that part of your life? I think it’s so interesting, especially juxtaposed with EDM, because that is often music that you feel as well as hear.
JN: Yes! Very true, right? So when I was in high school, we had a, we had actually a deaf floor, so it was, like, for hearing-impaired and deaf students, and a friend of mine, with some other teachers and counselors kind of came with this buddy program?
Sarah: Mm-hmm?
JN: And as one of her friends, of course I got dragged into it, and we were paired up with, with a hearing-impaired student or a deaf student, and my friend was hearing impaired, but she was very fluent in sign language, so she signed all the time, and I thought it was so beautiful, and of course I had a great experience doing that buddy program, and then I just sort of forgot about it, you know, kind of went through college, and then my last year of college I wasn’t really sure; I knew that I was probably going to go into education at some point, but I really wasn’t sure exactly whether to do – this is, like, senior year, so kind of have to get your life together, and I –
[Laughter]
JN: – and I took a sign language, and I fell in love with it all over again, like to the point where I was like, I don’t know what to do with my life right now. Like, it’s, it was just like so con-, it was like, you know when you, people say you have a calling and you just feel, like, drawn to it? I was really, like, drawn to it to a point where I was like, I have to make this a career in some way, shape, or form, and I had no idea how I was going to do that, because in my, in my senior year that was a minor in French, and I was leaving the country to go to, to be in France for a year, so I was like, oh, am I supposed to go to graduate school? Am I supposed to go get another Associate? Like, I didn’t know what to do, so I had to do all this research and figure out what I was doing. Was I not going to France? Was I – you know, so I ended up going to France, and when I came back I went to graduate school for education, and after that I taught in Hawaii, taught in Rochester, and, you know, became an administrator for a school and simultaneously taught sign language and deaf culture and have been doing that for the past twenty years! I mean, it’s crazy! [Laughs]
Sarah: It’s, I think it’s extraordinary that you have this ability to recognize what resonates with you and to follow that intuition. It’s hard to, to learn to listen to that oh-this-is-for-you feeling. You have isolated and identified so many things that resonated with you. What are some of the things you love about teaching sign language and deaf culture? What are some of your classes like?
JN: So I, my class is complete immersion, so it’s always surprising to students when they come in and I’m not talking to them. I think they think that I’m mad at them?
[Laughter]
JN: So they walk in and I’m just like, nodding and, you know, I may point to a seat or –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – you know, I may point to something that’s on the board or what have you, and, and then I just start teaching the class in, you know, in sign language and without voice, and I, you know, course I have, like, written queues so that they know what I’m talking about –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – or what I want them to do, but there’s no voice, and then they don’t use any voice, and so then they start to rely on their other – [laughs] – because it’s survival now, right? And it goes on like this, and this is how the first class always is. It goes on like this for quite a while, and then all, and then at one point I’m like, okay, so welcome to American Sign Language; they’re like, oh my gosh, you can speak! ‘Cause they don’t know that, they don’t know if I’m deaf or not. They just know that I’m, like, I, I am not communicating verbally, and so –
Sarah: Right.
JN: – it’s, it’s a highlight of my day.
[Laughter]
JN: It’s a highlight of my day to have students kind of go through this because this is the, what it, what it’s like for deaf people. You know, they don’t hear anything; they miss a lot of stuff –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – unless they’re with another deaf person, and so you, they have to pay attention. Like, all those other skills really do get heightened because they have to rely on visual, and they have to rely on sounds, unless they’re hard of hearing, which they can then sometimes depend on some sounds, or if they have a cochlear implant, and then they can kind of decipher some sounds or what some sounds are. Nothing is a surefire way, right, of making a deaf person hear, but it can help to just sort of, like, maneuver through the world a little bit more, and that’s a whole other, like, ballgame, but it’s all, it, it, that is like, be-, besides that first day of class where the students get it and so they know, like, what’s going to be demanded of them this whole, the entire semester, it’s, it, it really is just, like, fun, but the other thing is like when class is over and it’s like two or three years later and a student comes to me and says, you know, Professor Welsh, like, I was, you know, working, and a deaf person came in, and I can’t believe I remembered all those signs, and thank you so much for, you know, teaching me, and I really appreciate. But, like, those are so few and far between, but it has kept me going for all these years, because that one situation that that student had with that deaf person helped that deaf person to not have to struggle to communicate. Do you know what I mean?
Sarah: Absolutely!
JN: And so –
Sarah: I know, I know exactly what you mean.
JN: Yeah! So that’s just like, that, just giving a couple more people a little, a little more accessibility is so, I feel like it’s just so important because, you know, we always, sometimes we don’t even, like, on a day-to-day basis, like, we’re not always thinking about deaf accessibility or blind accessibility or anybody’s accessibility if we’re able-bodied, you know what I mean?
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: That’s just part of your world. Those two things, I think, the first day of class and always getting some feedback from students later on down the line where what I taught them had impact? I mean, it just, it makes me feel so good and, and, and purposeful, like I did something that is going to be in the world for, you know, that helped somebody in the world somewhere, even if I wasn’t there.
Sarah: What do your students go on to do? Do they often go into professional work in deaf communities?
JN: Some do, but most are taking it for a language requirement. There was a –
Sarah: That makes sense.
JN: Yeah, but some time in, I’m going to say the early, maybe like the mid 2000s or the early 2000s where American Sign Language was accepted as a language –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – that students can take, and it wasn’t just, like, the Romance languages, like Spanish or French or Italian or, you know, other, like, Japanese. They, they had, they could take, now, American Sign Language, especially for any students who had any challenges or disabilities –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – and, you know, cognitively couldn’t get, like, maybe a, you know, like the Romance languages would kind of like default to being, to being able to do a visual language a little bit better. Still a challenge, because I have a lot of students who I have accommodations for? Still a challenge for them, but it’s, it’s an alternative, you know. It’s not just, I have to be able to speak this language and memorize all this thing. I can do it in a mold that’s a little bit more –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – that’s better for me, you know? So I, I always appreciate that the class is able to give that to, to students as well. And students who just were like, I’ve always wanted to learn, or I did it in high school, and I really want to learn more, and so the, I get those students to come into class, as well as some students who just are like, I need to take a foreign language, and this seems like it’ll be a fun way to do that. So I get the, the vari-, I get a bunch of different people. I’ve had like maybe two or three students who have gone on to do more with American Sign Language, and then I have a lot of teachers who use sign language in their class with their young students to keep them from, like, having outbursts, so they use sign language in a variety of different ways.
Sarah: That’s incredible!
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: It sounds like you really love what you do, too.
JN: I do! I feel like I’ve been doing it for a while, so I think, you know, like with anything, like, you get itchy to do, like, other things to see –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – like, oh well, what else can I learn? But I’ll al-, I think that I’ll always do it in some way, shape, or form because I do, I love it so much. I love the richness of the deaf community; I love teaching people about the deaf community. You know, I have a lot of friends who are deaf who are, you know, really successful, and that community is so, like, tight-knit –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – that it’s, I just think that it’s, it’s a lot of fun. I always try to get my students to go where deaf people are and interact and make deaf friends because, you know, if you know the language, you’d be surprised; like, deaf people are mad fun.
[Laughter]
JN: They really are! You know? Like, you go to a club, and you’re like, why is everybody standing against the wall? Well, that’s how they feel the vibration, you know? But they’ll drink you under the table too.
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: – trying to say all, just some. [Laughs]
Sarah: Do you have any favorite stories from your classroom?
JN: I think that one I have, one of the things that we do in my class is when we have the final, the final is always – this is great – the final is, is often, you can read a story in sign language, or you can – part of the final, ‘cause my final’s pretty intense – but you can do a song or a book, and I just love to see the songs that my students choose, because they always somehow throughout the semester learn that I really love music, and so they pick songs that they think that I would, like, really, really enjoy, and I have some students do some really, like, great songs that they just, like, they, like, just nailed it, you know? They just nailed it in terms of their interpretation of the song, and it was just like, I remember one of my students did a Miley Cyrus song, and it was just so – I think she had all, like, all the, all the people in, like, just everyone in the class just glued to her in terms of how she was, like, presenting, and I was like, you did an amazing job! I love those moments, not just because it’s music, but it’s, it shows, like, at that point when it becomes the student who really gets the language?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: And it’s not just, you know, doing a song word for word but is interpreting the song –
Sarah: Yes!
JN: – which is different, because if I say something in American Sign Language or I say something in English and I try, I can’t say, if I say it word for word, it’s not American Sign Language. It’s, it’s called seeing, it’s like seeing exact English. It’s, like, signed English, so it’s every single word in English signed, but if I’m doing American Sign Language it’s more of an interpretation: a lot less signs, and it’s more concise and, and definitely has more impact?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: So it’s very different. And so when I see students do that, it’s so, I feel like those are amazing. So those, I think, are really, like, kind of like some of the moments in class. I feel like during finals is really like where we have the most fun –
Sarah: Yeah.
JN: – because – I have the most fun! I think that they’re a little bit more nervous because they’re like, oh gosh, I’m being evaluated, but I think that it’s, it’s still, like, a, a very fun – like, once they finish they’re like, wow! And they see themselves on videotape, they’re like, wow, I really did that, you know? That’s always so great, I feel.
Sarah: Hearing you talk about your final exams for your students reminds me of this viral video from, like, almost ten years ago of an, of a sign language student who did the sign language performance of CeeLo Green’s “Fuck You”?
JN: Oh yeah! [Laughs]
Sarah: And I completely blanked that, like, I remember the video so well, and every time I hear the song I think of her performance?
JN: Yes.
Sarah: Like, she owns that song now! But –
JN: She does!
Sarah: – I completely blanked that that was for an ASL class. What a fun final exam, that you have to perform a song, especially because so much music contains slang and code, and you have to figure out how to represent that if there’s not an obvious sign for it.
JN: Yes, exactly. And I get a lot of emails at that time. It’s like, um, I don’t know how to sign this, and I’m like, okay, think of what the sign is trying, think of what the music is trying to say, because if you say that, if you say that instead of what is just written on the page, you’ll do better at conveying what that actually means! You know what I mean? Instead of just saying, oh, I opened the door and somebody came through, and you know, versus I’m, I was, you know, I was startled – it’s kind of like showing versus telling in –
Sarah: Oh my gosh, yeah!
JN: Yes. You know what I mean? That’s how I feel; like, that’s ASL versus signing in English, or, or English, in, you know, in terms of a word-for-word.
Sarah: Yeah, that makes, that makes sense!
JN: Yeah! So I feel like that, that is, is, is a, is a kind of a good analogy for it.
Sarah: It is! It is a really good analogy! I hadn’t even thought of it, but it is showing and telling, but more showing.
JN: Yes! And it’s so beautiful, you know? It really is. Do you remember when Nelson Mandela passed away and they had the interpreter?
Sarah: Yes.
JN: And that interpreter, that big thing where the interpreter wasn’t even signing, like, properly? Like, so many people contacted me that, at that time, it was like, JN, what is he saying? And I was like, I really don’t, I don’t know what he’s saying! Like, I don’t even know if – like, I couldn’t tell you. If it’s not American Sign Language, I couldn’t even tell you what he’s saying. [Laughs]
Sarah: Right.
JN: ‘Cause a lot of people assume that American Sign Language is universal, and it’s not.
Sarah: No, no, it’s not.
JN: Everybody has their own sign language, and British Sign Language and American Sign Language, even though they both English, are the most different! It’s actually French Sign Language and English Sign Language that are closest, because of the founders of American Sign Language and how they came to develop it.
Sarah: So American English and French Sign Language are very similar, but British Sign Language and American English Sign Language are very different.
JN: Correct.
Sarah: Wow!
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: So it’s not just extra Us.
JN: No.
[Laughter]
Sarah: Couple extra Us and strange words that everyone says is spelled wrong.
JN: Yeah. [Laughs] And it’s always surprising when people hear that, and I was like, well, think about: Laurent Clerc and Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet came together to create American Sign Language, so, you know, of course they would have that influence. And then eventually, like, British Sign Language came in; you know, like, they have their own way of communicating –
Sarah: Of course!
JN: – which is so interesting. And then, also, the, with not only the language but the introduction of, you know, technology –
Sarah: Oh yeah.
JN: – and how technology has impacted the language in terms of the terminology, in terms of the technology that is, you know, like the cochlear implants that help deaf hear, you know, pick up sounds?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: ‘Cause they’re not hearing from their ear; they’re hearing from their brain, which is another, you know, very interesting thing. Or hearing aids and how those have become, like, really better and better as the years gone by, as technology impacts texting. Especially when it comes to deaf culture, some of those things impact community, right? Because then people don’t have to always get together to communicate; they still can communicate and now be texting or things like that, so it does impact the, the, the greater community in terms of how they gather, right?
Sarah: Of course!
JN: ‘Cause before, gathering was so much more important to, to see the language. Now you have video conferencing, FaceTime, and all this kind of stuff, so all these things impact languages. I would like to think that in some ways it has made it better; in other ways it has kind of like hind- – I think it happens in, in, in hearing culture as well. You know how texting and things like that kind of keep you a little bit detached from people, and when you get together it’s a different feel, you know?
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: I was talking to my husband this morning about how much he and I both hate having phone calls.
JN: [Laughs]
Sarah: Like, we both hate talking on the phone now, and I was like, God, when I was a teenager and the phone rang and it wasn’t for me, I was mad!
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: But now it’s like my phone rings and it’s not spam, and I’m like, ah, damn it! Because –
JN: I know.
Sarah: And, and I realize why it is for me? It’s because I much prefer to have things written, because I remember things better if I’ve read them versus hearing them, and so if someone’s calling me about something, I’m going to have to go write it down anyway, but for me – this is so awful – I hate, I hate the on ramp and the off ramp of a conversation on the phone? Like, with a text it’s noun and verb. Hey!
JN: Right.
Sarah: Going to go to dinner at 8? Yes! Okay, we’re done now. With a conver-, with a, with a phone convers-, it’s like, hey, how are you? What’s going – and, like, I don’t – no! Skip, please. Skip that part.
JN: Yeah. [Laughs]
Sarah: And yet, yet, I love recording my show, which is basically recording a phone conversation –
JN: Oh, right!
Sarah: – because to get to –
JN: It’s so – [laughs] –
Sarah: It’s, it’s, I am a whirlwind of contradictions, and I own this about myself. [Laughs]
JN: I love it. I love every part of it, because I completely get it, you know.
Sarah: I’m so glad I’m not alone!
JN: Like, here’s the text. Okay, I’m coming over, blah-blah-blah, that’s it, right?
Sarah: Yeah, right?
JN: Everybody expects a text to be short and, and concise, unless you’re having, like, group texts and you’re, like, going on and on? And then when you get on the phone, like, sometimes when people call I’m like, how rude! How rude is it of you to call me? Like, who –
Sarah: [Laughs]
JN: – calls anymore? Like, who even calls anymore? And it’s so true: unless you’re expecting the call, you’re like, how, how dare you call me? And I’m like, when did we become this society? [Laughs] But it’s so true! Like, the greetings and salutations are so, like, a little bit longwinded when you’re on a call!
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. There’s a long on ramp and a long on ramp, off ramp, and it’s can’t, you can’t just be like, okay, I’m done talking now; bye! Like –
JN: Right.
Sarah: – you cannot!
JN: Well, I’ve got to go do this – yeah, you’ve got to –
Sarah: I’m going to let you go.
JN: – you’ve got to –
Sarah: Yep.
JN: [Laughs]
Sarah: No! Like, there’s, there’s a very long off ramp. And then there’s, like, the timing of calls and how that changes?
JN: Oh yeah.
Sarah: Like, my mother-in-law called at, like, 9:05, and my husband nearly had a stroke. He’s like, who’s dead? She’s like, no, I’m just calling ‘cause I saw this video! And he was like, you do not call after nine –
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: – unless someone has died. And I was like –
JN: Yep, it’s true.
Sarah: – I had my –
JN: No late calls.
Sarah: I had my face buried so no one would hear me laughing. I was dying!
[Laughter]
Sarah: And I’m like, Adam, when did we become these people who don’t take calls after nine?
JN: I know! It’s so, I mean, it’s so interesting! Do you remember, like, being on the phone with people till like one in the morning?
Sarah: I used to fall asleep with the phone under my head, wedged into the pillow! [Laughs]
JN: I know! And now it’s like, oh my goodness, it’s just, it, it really is a testament to how things have changed!
Sarah: Isn’t it?
JN: And I, I don’t mind a phone call; I just am like, all this, I just have to be expecting it.
Sarah: Mm-hmm!
JN: When people just all of a sudden call me, I’m like, uhhh, you know? Here I go. But it’s, like, I don’t, I love talking to people; I love to talk to people in real time. I do like talking to people on the phone. It’s just that unexpected, I prefer to get an unexpected text than a phone call. [Laughs] So I get it; I get it a hundred percent. But, yes, we have definitely changed when it comes to that.
Sarah: Oh, we have. I knew this was going to be a great conversation, ‘cause you and I spent many hours sitting next to each other chatting in the Ws. Just come and hang out and chat with us, ‘cause it’s fun.
JN: It’s so true. They don’t know, Sarah. They don’t know.
Sarah: Ws, I’m telling you. I know from sitting next to you that you are also very attentive to your fitness and you teach exercise classes.
JN: Yeah.
Sarah: What have you learned about pairing writing and caring for your body as your careers have developed? What do you do to take care of yourself?
JN: I’m someone who, like, I love – like, in, in terms of fitness, like, it has kind of evolved into like a, like, total wellness and mindfulness about all the areas that impact, you know, you as a person –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – impact your, your, you know, mind, body, and spirit, ‘cause they’re all kind of interconnected, right?
Sarah: Oh, absolutely.
JN: And I’m somebody who, from a very young age, I’ve always had weight, and I’ve always wanted to lose weight, and I’ve always gained weight back, so I kind of know that I live in this area where it’s not necessarily like, it is somewhat a yo-yo, where I try to find a balance, but no matter what weight I am, I’m always exercising, I’m always eating healthfully. I sometimes will have those periods where I’m not eating healthy, like I’m actually working on a, on a workshop right now from, related to mindfulness for writers, because – and it’s based around a deadline, because I remember when I started to get deadline, I started to write a lot, I sort of, like, weight started to come back on slowly because I was constantly in front of the computer, and I wasn’t thinking about, you know, did I do my meal prep? Did I, you know, get in, you know, enough exercise today? Did I go outside? Have I been seeing my, my family and friends? You know, and all these things that were happening, I would just, like, focus on the words on the page and being so involved in that world. And so I started to look at, how do I make this routine? How do I make this ritualistic? How do I make this – how do I, how do I stay mindful about making sure that I get all those other areas –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – and still be fit? Because you can be fit at any size. Like, I hope people really get that. Like, they can, you can be fit at any size. You –
Sarah: Yes. Fitness is not a weight.
JN: It’s not a weight. They, they’re not always linked, that you’re overweight and you’re not fit. Sometimes you are fit! [Laughs] You know? A lot of times you are fit, so I always want to make sure that that’s, that’s a clear thing. So you, you know, fitness, like, I do, I love my Beachbody programs by Shaun T, because he’s so handsome, and he’s so motivational, and so I make sure that I, you know, do work out, I do try to get fresh air and walk, ‘cause I love the walk. I also like to run. And I just have to be mindful of where I’m at so that I don’t hurt myself, and, you know, I make sure that I’m really following all the things that I need to do to, to stay safe when I’m, when I’m exercising, and also focus on nutrition that is going to be helpful for my mind, body, and spirit.
And have a good time, too! Like, you’ll see me; I’ll be out at RWA and things like that, and I’ll be, you know, have a nice meal with people, or I’ll have drinks. Like, you have to enjoy your life, because that helps your spirit, right?
But I love fitness. I love moving my body. The class that I taught was called “Cize,” and it is a Shaun T program, and I taught it in corporate America, and I taught it at a studio, and I love that class because it really – one, it combines something that I love, music and exercise, and it breaks it down so that you can, like, do, like, a dance routine, like, at the end, and it’s so much fun! And people who did it with me enjoyed it so much; we had so much fun. I have so much video, which I think you might have seen on my Instagram.
Sarah: I have!
JN: Yeah! [Laughs] And it’s so much fun, and I’m like, see, that’s what exercise is. That’s how exercise should be. I think, like –
Sarah: It’s joyful!
JN: – whatever it is that you want to do, whether you want to lift weights or you want to walk or you want to dance or you want to do yoga or Pilates or whatever it is that you want to do, you know, taking care of yourself can sometimes be very boring! And if you can make it interesting in some kind of way, I think that you’ll, you’ll do, always do better at it, because it’s something that you enjoy instead of something that you’re like, oh my God, this is, I have to do this now? Like –
Sarah: So what are your steps for taking care of yourself? You’re already so mindful of how you’re feeling and what you’re doing in a given moment, and you seem so attuned to the things that resonate with you. What are the things you do to care for yourself?
JN: Okay, so one of the things that I definitely – I have a morning routine that I try to stick to as best as possible. No matter what, where I am; no matter what, you know, weight I am; no matter where I am, if I’m at a conference or anything like that; I try to, you know, I get up; I make sure that I drink a lot of water, because that gets, like, your whole digestion going; I exercise; and I meditate. Those things, ev-, everything, all else fails in my day, I always make sure that I get that in. And even if it’s not a lot of exercise, even if I just, like, you know, do, like, ten or fifteen minutes of walking or I do an hour of workout, whatever it is, I make sure that I do those things in the morning. Some stretching or something, but it’s always those things that I do first thing in the morning.
Sarah: What is your meditation technique? I have started meditating recently, and I have tried different techniques.
Zeb: Woof!
Sarah: Some of them work on some days.
Zeb: Woof!
Sarah: My dog right now –
JN: I hear –
Sarah: – is not meditating, just for the record!
JN: [Laughs] I love dogs!
Sarah: What are some of the methods that work best for you? If you don’t mind sharing. If it’s a private thing, you absolutely do not have to share.
JN: Oh, I love sharing! I share all the time! But I love to, like, I, I sit, I, I learned to meditate doing, it’s called Yoga Nidra. I was, I learned actually in Guatemala. I’d gone to a retreat, a yoga retreat in the, The Yoga Forest by Lake Atitlan in Guatemala, and it’s Yoga Nidra, and it’s all meditation, and it’s long, and you sit on a mat or, you know, on the floor – you’re somewhat supported – for a really long time. Like, you can be doing it for like, you know, forty-five, half hour or forty-five minutes to an hour, you know?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: And I loved that, one, because of course where you are is very picturesque and everything like that, but in order to make it work for me or to take that down a little bit to, you know, doing it every day or do it anywhere, like, I have to make it simple. So even if I just, I love a half hour meditation, but even if I just do ten minutes of meditation, I sit in a chair, I close my eyes, and I’m, you know, I use the Calm app right now, because the meditations are so varied, and I can, whatever it is that I’m feeling at that time, I can kind of zero in on with the different meditations that Tamara Levitt has on her, on, on her app?
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: So I can just play that and, you know, I can listen, you know, I love the ocean, so I can hear the ocean in the background, and what I love about it is that she’s not talking the whole time. She gives you space –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: – to really kind of just like be in, be with your breath. So I really just sit down in a chair; I, you know, I keep the lights dim; and I make sure that, you know, nothing is, like, not in anywhere where it’s, like, too noisy; and then I really just sort of like sit there with my breath. And I have come to learn that my mind is going so fast all the time, and that I –
Sarah: Oh, it is.
JN: I mean, it’s so amazing, and, and now I’ve come to the point where I really do appreciate being able to receive it and let it, and let it go. Like, I’ve gotten to the point where I can like, oh, here it comes. All right, I’m thinking.
Sarah: Yep.
JN: Good-bye. And that’s the thing! It doesn’t have to be a lot of time.
Sarah: No!
JN: It really doesn’t, and you can even be doing it walking. They have walking meditations if you need to be, if somebody who can’t sit still needs to be active? It’s just the act of being mindful of what you’re doing. Are you taking a step? Are you, you know, look at a, looking at a flower or feeling the pavement, feeling your joints move? It’s an active thing, instead of just being focused on your breath, but you do come back to your breath with walking meditations, and they’re also interesting, but I feel like I get such a good recharge from meditating when I take it off the mat and, like, situations happen, and then I can kind of like, I can kind of take a deep breath.
I, I do this with people now too, when people are telling me, like, you know, really horrible things or things that are happening to them, and it sounds like their life is in chaos. I just, like, take a really, like, huge, deep breath, and that makes me more functional throughout the day, and I can do things, and I can say, okay, if I stop forecasting my life – [laughs] – I can maybe get this thing done, because, you know, when you forecast, you sort of like stop seeing things in steps and your next step, and you start seeing, you know, how things can kind of unfold that may or may not be true, so you have to kind of bring, it helps you really kind of bring it back and ground yourself, you know?
Sarah: Absolutely.
JN: Mm-hmm.
Sarah: So I always ask this question –
JN: Ooh!
Sarah: – what are you working on, and what are you reading that you want to tell everyone about?
JN: Oooh! Okay, so I am working on book three in – it’s now called the Back on Top series, which is the in, In Tune and In Rhythm.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
JN: I’m working on the third book now, so that’s in the incubator. [Laughs] And I am also working on some other stuff. I’m working on a soccer story right now, or a soccer series right now, that I absolutely love. First things first is doing book three for everybody, but book two is coming out in December, so book three is actually, like, what I’m physically working on. And what was the other part of your question?
Sarah: What are you reading that you want to tell people about?
JN: Oooh! Okay, so I, I, I read a lot of nonfiction. [Laughs] But –
Sarah: Me too.
JN: – I know – because I feel like I get, like, inspiration from that too. So I’m reading a lot of nonfiction because I’m doing a lot of research for my workshop, but in terms of romance I am reading Writing Her In – that’s a Holley Trent book. That one’s a lot of fun to read.
But the other one that I’m, I read it, and I’m now, that I’m listening to is Adriana Herrera’s American Dreamer? I’m listening to that one, and that is a treat to listen to. I don’t know if anybody has listened to it, but it’s such a treat to listen to, because the actor, the voice actor is so good at doing all, all these different voices?
Sarah: Ooh!
JN: It’s like when – I, I don’t know if you’ve ever listened to Harry Potter on audio? It’s also a real treat.
Sarah: Yes.
JN: It really is a treat to listen to. And it’s kind of like that for me, and I just like, I feel like every time it gets closer to, like, oh, you only have two hours left, I get a little sad. [Laughs] ‘Cause I know, like, the end is coming? So if you get a chance to listen to it – I mean, reading it is great, but I feel like listening to it is a real treat.
Sarah: Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. I’ve had the best time with our conversation!
JN: Oh, yes!
Sarah: Thank you so much!
JN: This is so fun, so much fun. I feel like it’s overdue, and I really do feel like people don’t really understand, like, how much fun our conversations are when we’re, like, sitting next to each other at –
Sarah: Oh gosh!
JN: Oh my goodness! Like, we just have, like, a really, really good time. Really come through, people! Come –
Sarah: Yeah!
JN: [Laughs]
Sarah: Come hang out with us!
JN: Yes! It’s so much fun. So I, I’m just like, this is so overdue, and I’m just, like, so happy to have this time with you, and, you know, talk with you and your, have your listeners listen on in!
[music]
Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s podcast. Thank you to JN Welsh for hanging out with me, both while we talked for this podcast and at book signings. I hope you enjoyed hanging out with us. If you would like to find her online, you can find her at jnwelsh – W-E-L-S-H – dot com [jnwelsh.com], and I have a link in the show notes to her Spotify playlist, should you like to sample some of the music that she talks about.
This week’s podcast is brought to you by Fallen by Rebecca Zanetti, which ticks a lot of boxes on the catnip bingo card: bestselling author Rebecca Zanetti’s second Deep Ops, Fallen, is sharp and dynamic, raves the New York Times. Brimming with action, suspense, and sensual tension, a talented hacker turns security consultant, and her FBI-appointed bodyguard must fake an engagement to clear her father’s name from a high-profile mob scandal. Fallen by Rebecca Zanetti is on sale now wherever books are sold. For more information, visit rebeccazanetti.com.
Every episode receives a transcript. I know many of you listen and read or do one or the other. Thank you to everyone in our podcast Patreon community who have supported the show and have underwritten this week’s transcript. If you would like to join: patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar. If you’ve supported the show with a monthly pledge of any amount, thank you very, very much. Your support means a lot.
The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is a band called Sketch, this is their album Shed Life, and this particular track – and I looked up the pronunciation, so if I screw this up, please let me know – is called “Oidhche Boogie.” I hope I said that right. You can find it on Amazon or on iTunes or wherever you buy your funky music.
Coming up on Smart Bitches this week: it’s time for Whatcha Reading?, our most expensive and popular post of the month, and now we do two of them by reader request. We talk about what we’re reading, you tell us what you’re reading, and then we build our TBRs to heights that have never been seen before. We also have a sponsored post next week from Adam & Eve with a discount code for fifty percent off and free shipping, so if you’re looking for some toys or accessories to spice up the nights that are growing longer in the northern hemisphere, this is an excellent opportunity! We also have reviews of new titles, because October is a month full of books, and we have some really great positive, raving reviews coming up too, plus a new Rec League for all your Goth heroine needs, Books on Sale, Help a Bitch Out. I hope you’ll come and hang out with us.
I will have links to all of the things that JN mentioned, as well as all of the books and movies we talked about, and links to some YouTube videos for the music that she was referencing when she was talking about DJing. They’re all in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast.
And as always, I close with a terrible joke. Are you ready? This one’s pretty dumb. I’m pretty excited about this one.
What does a cloud do when it’s got an itch?
What does a cloud do when it’s got an itch?
It finds the nearest skyscraper!
[Laughs] That’s so dumb! Skyscraper. This joke is from /sburgel on Reddit, and I spend way too much time in the dad jokes forum because they’re great!
So on behalf of JN Welsh and myself and everyone else who hangs out with us in the Ws, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend, and I will see you here next week.
[speedy music]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Excited to listen to this. I really liked In Tune and both covers are spectacular.
I really enjoyed this podcast. I took a sign language course in college from a deaf teacher and really enjoyed it. It didn’t satisfy a language requirement for me, but it was interesting. One night, we joined the teacher and some of her friends at a club. I remember how heavy the bass line was for the music (this was in the 1980s) but everyone was dancing.
I don’t read much contemporary romance, but Ms. Welsh’s descriptions of her books intrigued me and I’ll be checking those out.
I really enjoy these conversations because subjects that I know little to nothing about suddenly become so fascinating.
Thank you for the comments! I’m so pleased you all liked this episode such that you stopped by to say so. Thank you!
I really appreciate that, including your comment, Kate. I love when a conversation includes something that is a person’s passion that I know so little about. It really is fascinating, and I’m so fortunate to get to share those conversations with a wider group. Thank you for listening!