Smart Podcast, Trashy Books Podcast

293: The Elements of Surprise: Untwisting the Twist with Vera Tobin, PhD

Every now and again on Facebook, I learn that friends of mine from kindergarten are doing really, really cool stuff. Today I’m chatting with Vera Tobin, a professor of cognitive science at Case Western, and author of the upcoming book, The Elements of Surprise, which comes out on April 16, 2018.

Her book is all about how the surprises, twists, and unexpected revelations we love in fiction actually work on our brains cognitively. In her work, she breaks down the different ways in which we processes surprises and twists in books and movies, and the structure of different types of surprises. As you might imagine, when I saw her talking about her book on Facebook, I was immediately super nosy.

Harvard University Press was cool enough to send me an ARC, even though I’m not (a) a cognitive scientist or (b) an academic (thank you, y’all!) and it was a fascinating read, and I’m not just saying that because Vera was my best friend in kindergarten. When we recorded this, we probably hadn’t spoken to each other in person or via phone in at least 20-25 years, but we had a great time.

She tells us about:

The importance of surprise and also cognitive satisfaction, especially in genre fiction

The parallels between literary surprises and orgasms

The categorizing of spoilers – different types and different effects

We also talk about the book The Duke’s Wager by Edith Layton, which features a very twisty romance indeed – and yes, we spoil it a little bit while discussing it.

Read the transcript

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Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:

You can learn more about Vera Tobin and her research at her website, VeraTobin.org.

We also discussed

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This Episode's Music

Peatbog Faeries Live at 25 album cover - a red lit stage with hands in the air from the crowd in the foregroundOur music is provided by Sassy Outwater. Thanks, Sassy!

We’ve been playing tracks from the Peatbog Fairies’ live album, Live @ 25, and it is seriously fun.

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Transcript

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  1. Paige says:

    “When You Reach Me” has been in my TBR for a loooong time. I need to finally pick it up. If you haven’t read “Fangirl” by Rainbow Rowell yet I recommend that. I actually prefer that one to “Eleanor and Park”. I think it got too hyped up for me so when I read it, it was a bit underwhelming which is never fun.

  2. Deborah says:

    I think I last read The Duke’s Wager in full 30 years ago (I occasionally re-read the ending because it is everything beautiful, strong, and sad all at once), and I honestly don’t recall a twist or a sense of surprise to the book. I shall have to re-read as soon as possible. The “surprise” can’t be who the hero is, can it? Because, well, mumblespoilermumbletitlemumblesorry.

    I’m also looking forward to reading Professor Tobin’s book. There’s something very satisfying in the confirmation that the constant sifting of expectations/anticipation/speculation I experience when processing a story is shared by all human beings. Except, apparently, Fran Lebowitz. I hope the book also expands on what she was saying about the surprise of visual processing (such as taking in a room), because while I’m incredibly familiar with processing media like this, I don’t much think about it in everyday observational tasks.

  3. Kareni says:

    “…a romance that featured a plot element that hides info from the reader because it’s hidden from a viewpoint character or a romance in which we as the reader are misled because a character is misled…” ~ I think that Joanna Bourne’s The Spymaster’s Lady exemplifies this.

  4. It was so much fun listening to Vera’s discussion of cognitive science approaches to literary analysis! I did my own PhD in cognitive & historic linguistics at Berkeley and I’m always finding useful and peculiar intersections between that field and writing fiction, especially for analyzing the mechanics of point of view.

  5. ms bookjunkie says:

    I need to read The Duke’s Wager already, so I can stop trying to avoid spoilers. (Because I skipped ahead a lot to make sure. *eyeroll*) And now I really want to re-listen to Dan Stevens narrate Murder on the Orient Express to me. OMG, best narration ever!

  6. Critterbee says:

    I was enjoying this podcast so much, the two of you have such great chemistry. Alas, I had to stop it to read the Duke’s Wager – arrrgh! Be back as soon as I am finished.

  7. SB Sarah says:

    Thank you! That’s so kind of you to say – and I really hope you enjoy The Duke’s Wager!

  8. Vera says:

    /me runs off to read The Spymaster’s Lady ASAP.

    Thanks, everyone! Recording this with Sarah was a delight.

  9. Kareni says:

    I hope you’ll enjoy it, @Vera. (I’d say it’s about the first eighty pages that mislead.)

  10. Turophile says:

    I love your podcast, like other listeners, I stopped listening so that I could read the book. OMG, I hated it. I know some people will really like it, but I did not. I could barely finish it. The book was well crafted in some senses, but oh yuck. To explain why might spoil it for other readers so I let it all out in my goodreads review instead. I still love your podcast, but I can’t remember having such a strong visceral reaction to a book in a long time.
    Reading other Goodreads reviews is interesting. Some readers loved it but others had a similar reaction to me. I’ll be curious to see what kind of feedback you get from others.

  11. SB Sarah says:

    @Turophile: I’m so sorry you didn’t like it. It is a cilantro-kind of book: some folks love it, some people are like WAT? NO. I’m sorry that you didn’t enjoy it, though.

  12. hapax says:

    Megan Whalen Turner. Megan Whalen Turner. Megan Whalen Turner.

    Her Queen’s Thief books are the ONLY (and I mean this literally) books that I don’t read the end pages first, because I *know* there’s a twist coming, I’m *always* looking for it, and I’m always surprised and satisfied anyways.

    And they are just as delightful to re-read and watch how cleverly she sets it up.

    Oh, also a beautifully created world and love stories to die for and the best set of characters in any fiction ever.

    Did I mention Megan Whalen Turner?

  13. hapax says:

    Oh, also I deeply admire THE DUKE’S WAGER, but I didn’t love it, and rarely re-read it. But the sort-of sequel THE DISDAINFUL MARQUIS is one of my favorites, and I re-read it practically every year — although the hero is in many ways a different character.

    Speaking of sort-of series in Regency romances, and surprises (which don’t surprise anyone who has read a lot of Regencies) but I suppose one should make an obligatory bow to Georgette Heyer and THESE OLD SHADES and also THE MASQUERADERS, although that one is right there in the title.

  14. chacha1 says:

    Great discussion. I’ve added The Elements of Surprise to my wishlist.

  15. Deirdre says:

    Re: Frixion Erasable Pens

    They’re now available in swish metal bodies. I picked one up on holidays in Hamburg recently. I may be a lot of a pen geek.

  16. Deirdre says:

    Holy broken URL batman….

  17. SB Sarah says:

    No worries – I fixed it! 😀 THANK YOU FOR THE LINK!

  18. Deirdre says:

    I have been referred to as an evil enabler… I do try.

  19. Sharon says:

    I enjoyed this podcast so much I went out and bought the book (both books actually, Vera’s and Edith’s). Just this week I read what is now one of my favorite twisty books of all time – REBECCA by Daphne Du Maurier.

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