289. Intimacy, Trust, and Consent: An Interview with Mona Darling, Kink Coach and Pro Domme

[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 289 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Books, and with me today is Amanda. We’re interviewing Mona Darling, who is a professional dominatrix, kink coach, BDSM mentor, and sexual adventure coach. So we have absolutely nothing to talk with her about; this is going to be incredibly boring. I’m joking. It is not! [Laughs] Mona was introduced to us by Thien-Kim Lam, who was also a guest of a prior podcast talking about Bawdy Bookworms, so thank you, Thien-Kim for introducing us.

First and foremost, I want to give a content and trigger warning for explicit discussions of sexual kink, sexual practice, and rape fantasy.

We also talk about how Mona Darling got her start and how her business works, including the differences between working at a house versus being an independent Domme. We have a very interesting conversation about consent and personal motivations for exploring kink and the struggles of being an introverted Domme. Mona also shares advice for finding kinky resources near you, answers some personal questions, and gives advice for using erotic literature with your partner. I hope you really enjoy this interview.

If you have questions or suggestions or you have things that you’d like me to ask Mona if we connect again, you can contact us at [email protected], you can tweet at us @SmartBitches, or you can find Amanda @_ImAnAdult, or you can record a voice memo and email it to us at [email protected], and that would also be completely awesome.

This episode is being brought to you by GrantStation. If you are passionate about a cause or you work with or support a nonprofit organization, listen up – and I learned you might, because most nonprofit organization staff are women between thirty and sixty, so this may very well be of interest to you! At GrantStation, we provide the tools for your nonprofit organization to find new grant sources, build a strong grantseeking program, and write winning grant proposals. Do you struggle to identify new funding sources? Let GrantStation do the preliminary work for you. We profile a wide range of funders that accept unsolicited requests, including foundations, corporate giving programs, faith-based grantmakers, association grant programs, giving circles, and more. Does the lack of time limit your ability to submit grant requests? We have tutorials on creating time and making space for grant proposals. Do you have a grant strategy for 2018? We offer a three-pronged approach to help you develop an overall strategic plan to adopting a powerful grantseeking program. What is GrantStation? I’m glad you asked, ‘cause I will tell you! The GrantStation US charitable giving database was developed by grantseekers for grantseekers. The goal was, and continues to be, to offer a database that is carefully researched, easy to use, and continually updated. Their narrative approach allows them to include nuanced details about each grantmaker’s funding priorities, geographic focus, and application procedure, which sets them apart from other services which tend to rely on data and statistics. Instead of combing through search results that include sources that are by invitation only, GrantStation allows you to find the grant programs which best suit your organizational needs, including federal grant programs and sources that accept unsolicited letters of inquiry. GrantStation also welcomes you with a clean, user-friendly interface that quickly and easily brings you the information you need. Our job is to profile a wide range of grantmakers open to supporting the work that you do. Your job is to make sure you have access to those grantmakers. You can get an annual membership for just $159 and get funded with GrantStation. A GrantStation membership for $159 is a limited time offer, and the usual one-year rate is much, much higher, so definitely have a look if you are thinking this applies to you or your organization. Plus, you’ll receive their free gift: free attendance to Jean Block’s classic webinar 60+ Great FUNdraising Ideas in 90 Minutes. You will be inspired, and you can learn more at grantstation.com. Thanks to GrantStation for sponsoring this episode.

And as you likely know, all episodes receive a transcript, which is hand compiled by garlicknitter. Thank you, garlicknitter! This week’s transcript is brought to you by A Duke in the Night by Kelly Bowen. If you like Sarah MacLean and Tessa Dare, you will love this Regency romance. August Faulkner has returned with his eye on expanding his business empire. He is a duke, a scoundrel, and a titan of business. He is known and reviled for buying and selling companies, accumulating scads of money, and breaking hearts. It is a reputation he wears like a badge of honor and one that he intends to keep. Clara Hayward, the headmistress of the Haverhall School for Young Ladies, is, on the other hand, above reproach, yet when she’s reunited with August, all she can think of is the way she felt in his arms as they danced a scandalous waltz ten long years prior. Even though her head knows that he is only back in her life to take over her family’s business, her heart can’t help but open to the very duke who could destroy it for good. RT Book Reviews raves, “What a way to start the Devils of Dover series!” Can these two opposites find a second chance at romance? You can find out in A Duke in the Night by Kelly Bowen, on sale now wherever books are sold. You can learn more at kellybowen.net and forever-romance.com.

The music you are listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. As always, I will have information at the end of the show as to who this is.

I will also have, in the show notes at smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast, links to several of the resources that Mona discusses, as well as links to her upcoming book, Kinky Sex Tips for Curious Girls. I’m sure a lot of you just said, what? Yes? I wish to know more about this. Keep listening; it’s pretty amazing.

We have a podcast Patreon, and as part of that, I have some compliments to give out, and this is going to be the most fun part, because this one I had help on. Thank you, Elyse, for this, help with this compliment; it made me laugh so hard.

To Laura M.: Your hair and your smile are so shiny, they make the flat-coated retrievers at Westminster jealous, but they think you’re great nonetheless.

And to Sarah Y.: If you stand under your neighbor’s tree at the right angle, the branches have arranged themselves to compliment you, and right now it says, you have so got this, and that, and everything else.

If you would like a handcrafted compliment of your very own, please have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges beginning with one dollar make a deeply appreciated difference in continuing the show, underwriting the cost of producing a podcast every week, and helping me commission transcripts for older episodes. I am working my way through episodes from 2011, and podcast transcripts are being posted as they come in! Thank you, garlicknitter! So please have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

And I wanted to thank some folks personally, so to Katelyn, Kilian, GreenEyedGal, Beth, and Leslie, thank you for being part of the Patreon community.

Are there other ways to support the show? Of course there are! You are putting the show in your eardrums right now, so thank you; that is amazingly wonderful of you. You can leave a review wherever you listen. That helps other people find the show. You can also tell a friend, subscribe, whatever works. Yell about it out the window. I’m sure no one will mind. But if you are here hanging out with me each week, thank you, thank you, thank you for that.

At the end of the podcast, after the interview, in the portion that is called the outro, which is totally a word, I will tell you all about this music that you are listening to; I will tell you a terrible, terrible joke; and I will talk about what’s coming up on the website. I will also tell you again about our sponsor and our podcast transcript sponsor, so you should totally hang out, because this week’s joke is really, really bad – oh my God, I love it. I told it to my older son, and he groaned and told me never to speak to him again. It’s that good, y’all! [Laughs]

And of course I will have links to all of the things that Mona Darling mentions in this interview, including her online programs and her website, darlingpropaganda.com.

So without any further delay, on with the interview, and welcome to Mona Darling!

[music]

Mona Darling: My name is Mona Darling. I am a professional dominatrix. I am also a women’s and couples’ kink coach, BDSM mentor, sexual adventure coach – I haven’t really settled on a title yet.

Sarah: There’s absolutely nothing at all to talk about if you are a kink mentor, BDSM coach, or professional dominatrix. These are completely boring subjects that everything, everything about them, everyone already knows.

Mona: Everybody. It’s totally well-known facts.

Sarah: Of course! So would you, would you just tell us, how did you get started as a professional dominatrix?

Mona: Funny story: I –

[Laughter]

Mona: No, really! [Laughs] Oh good. So I was working as a professional papier-mâché-er to put myself through college.

Sarah: What does one do as a professional papier-mâché-er?

Mona: I was building papier mâché dogs for Old Navy?

[Laughter]

Sarah: That is amazing! That’s a job?

Mona: I was working at this papier mâché factory, which was actually just sort of, you know, a bunch of underpaid college kids making papier mâché dogs for Old Navy. The woman who was our, our boss got fired because they realized that she had been stealing money from the company, and since I was going to business school at that time, they promoted me, and I sat down with them and went over all the numbers, and they were like, yeah, you guys are so far over production, you’re never going to get caught up, and they said, thank you very much, and then they fired me.

Sarah: [Gasps!]

Mona: I’m in the middle of the semester of college. I have, you know, it’s, it’s a small college, so I have, like, a nighttime class followed by an early morning class followed by, like, why am I, like, what am I going to do with myself? And I ended up going to interview at a fetish and fantasy house in the Bay Area, and I was like, I do crazy stuff and you’re willing to pay me for it? Yes.

Sarah: Okay!

Mona: Well, okay!

[Laughter]

Sarah: Do you remember the interview questions that they asked you? Like, what kind of questions do you ask in an interview to work in a BDSM dungeon?

Mona: I, it was more of a tour of the space, and, so that I could see what was going on, and there was a, a huge, ‘cause there’s, you know, tops and bottoms and people who do all kinds of crazy fetishes, so there’s this huge chart on the wall, and she showed me that, you know, you could, you could go through the chart and say what you were willing to do, what you wanted to do, what you didn’t want to do as a top, as a bottom, like, whatever, and at that point in my life, you know, my early twenties, I was like, I’m doing everything! Except for poop. I don’t poop, do poop. Nope. It was basically just a walking through and checking out, everything out and, you know, seeing how their cleanliness practices were, and their safer-sex practices and – so there wasn’t a lot of questions of what I wanted, like a regular job interview.

Sarah: It was more like, here’s what we do here; do you see yourself in this place?

Mona: Yeah! And I mean, this was long before the internet, so it wasn’t like I looked at their website and went and checked it out. No, it was like I have no job and I do kinky things, and somebody’s, I heard a rumor these people would pay me for kinky things, and so I’m going to get on my motorcycle and head way out into the suburbs and see if this is true! [Laughs] So – it’s a wonder I didn’t end up in the trunk of a car.

Sarah: [Laughs] So what were some of the things on the chart? I mean, what are the more common things that were requested of you?

Mona: Well, there’s, the chart was pretty detailed. So there’s, you know, bondage, spanking, and all of this is, like, top or bottom; golden showers, give or take, give or receive; roleplay, even though that’s pretty, I mean, everybody who worked there, I think, did roleplay, because it’s fun! Girl/girl shows, ‘cause some people just wanted girl/girl shows. Adult baby, whether you did diapers, whether you did brown showers, whether you did Roman showers. That, like, makes it seem so cut and dry –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mona: – when there was actually, like, a lot of really strange things that happened at the house? Everything from weird roleplays where I – [laughs] – this is where I start drawing a blank, and I’m like, oh my God, there’s so many things! Where do I start? And my brains go, my brain just goes out. I did, like, a lot of superhero roleplays, ‘cause that was my thing then; I was, like, nerdy – like I’m not nerdy now. [Laughs] So I did, like, a lot of weird roleplays, tying, you know, being Wonder Woman and tying up people with my rope and making them tell the truth about they really wanted to suck my cock.

Sarah: That’s amazing!

Mona: [Laughs] It’s amazing how well that fantasy’s aged, even.

Sarah: Yes! I was going to say, somebody right now will be listening as be like, uh, yeah! Didn’t realize that’s totally my jam.

Mona: [Laughs] That’s totally my jam! And then some of it was like adult baby, and, like, some of it was just very intimate and a little sad. There was somebody who used to come and just want to watch a girl masturbate and snuggle afterwards, and he was married for fifty years, and his wife died, and he didn’t want to start a relationship with anybody else, and he, but he missed sexual, you know, stimulation and physical connection.

Sarah: And intimacy.

Mona: Yes! So, you know, and, so there was a lot of, there’s a lot of different things. There was, you know, some people that came in for spankings. There was an adult baby that came in, and he had his mommy who worked there, but every once in a while somebody would get to babysit him, and you’d get to be, like, the mean babysitter or, like, this, you know, babysitter that spoiled them, and it was really fun, and then report back to mommy.

[Laughter]

Sarah: It seems like there’s already a fundamentally high level of intimacy when you engage in, in sort of kinky play, because you’re revealing your, your secretly held fantasies to someone who’s going to help you make them happen for you over and over again.

Mona: Yes. It’s, it can be very, very intimate, especially when there’s so much shame around and stigma around sexual fantasies.

Sarah: Yes.

Mona: And you spend your whole life, like, trying to not talk about this giant fetish elephant in the room.

[Laughter]

Mona: And finally you have somebody who’s going to be like, not only are we going to talk about this fetish elephant in the room, we are going to go over all the parts and then turn it around and do it backwards.

Sarah: Yep. And so it’s, it’s, it’s a lot of intimacy and trust, obviously. When you, when you got started, how long did you work in professional dominatrix positions?

Mona: I worked at the house for five years, I think? Before going independent.

Sarah: And how do you, how does being independent work differently? Is it like being an independent contractor or a consultant where you find your own clients and build your own collection of people that you see?

Mona: Yes. When I was working at the house, there’s, you know, somebody answering the phone; somebody doing all the marketing; somebody has all the connections for, like, photographers; and somebody helps you write your, your, at that time, newspaper clippings.

[Laughter]

Mona: Newsprint, kids!

Sarah: Scrapbook! [Laughs]

Mona: Oh, yeah. And so then when you go independent, you’re doing all of this, you know, you, you, I, at that point, like, I was sort of tech-y and nerdy, and so I had a website, but nobody else did. Like –

Sarah: Whoa!

Mona: So I had my very own website; it was sort of crazy, very impressive to some people. And, you know, I would have to do, like, I would have to create my own persona, and I’d have to find my own photographers, and I’d have to answer my own phone and make my own appointments and do my own – you know, there, there’s, at the house it was, like, everybody was, you know, vetted before they came in, and so I had to learn how to vet my own clients. After five years in the business, though, I was, I, I knew what I was looking for.

Sarah: Can I ask you about that process? What is vetting a client like?

Mona: Vetting a client, I, a lot of it, in the most simple terms, it’s asking for a reference and talking to the reference. Sex workers and us Dommes talk to each other freely, give each other references; you want to keep everybody safe.

Sarah: Right.

Mona: And other than that, I, I would have a set way that I wanted things done. I wanted them to fill out an application. I wanted them to, you know, email – I wanted to see if they could write in complete sentences. I wanted to tell them to call me at a certain time and have them actually call me. You know, if you can follow through with all of that, I feel like you’re going to be, you know, showing up.

Sarah: Right.

Mona: And for the most part, I feel like if you’re going to show up, you’re going to be safe, because I don’t mind making the newspaper, right? That’s going to be great for me. [Laughs] I’m going to, you know –

Sarah: Not for them!

Mona: But not for them so much, so safety-wise, I felt like I got a feel for them. I talked to the reference if they had one, and a lot of it is, is going by your gut and making assumptions that serial killers can’t spell with full sentences. I don’t –

[Laughter]

Mona: – think!

Sarah: One of the things that I wanted to go back to is, you mentioned shame and stigma.

Mona: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: One of the questions that I had written down earlier is, much like romance fiction, there’s a lot of shame and stigma surrounding sex work.

Mona: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: What are some of the misconceptions about sex work that you would really like to destroy as soon as possible?

Mona: Oh my God, where do I begin with that one? First off –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: – that it’s so easy, that you just have to, like, be hot and, like, you know, say, I’ll do this, and you give me money! I had so many women come to me and want to be trained, and they want to be a dominatrix because all they see is the, like, fancy website, and you, like, look stunning, and you’ve got fancy clothes, and – it’s fucking work!

[Laughter]

Mona: You know?

Sarah: Wait, wait, wait! Hold up! Hold up! So you’re saying that the work part of sex work is work?

Mona: I, shocking, I know!

Sarah: What the heck?!

Mona: [Laughs] It is, you know, you, you do have to, to work. You know, sometimes you have to see clients that smell funny or have, like, a weird, you know, you’re like, I’m, I really thought that I was going to enjoy you, but now that I see you, like, you’re really just sort of annoying, but we’re going to do just fine; it’ll be fine.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Because it’s work. It’s not, it’s, it’s work. It’s not intimacy. This is your job.

Mona: Yes. And then, and I, I really strived to find clients that I really connected with and –

Sarah: Mm-hmm?

Mona: – tried not to see clients I didn’t connect with, because seeing clients you don’t really connect with as a sex worker can just be the death of you. I mean, it’s like any crappy job, no matter where you work. If you work with people you don’t like, you hate your job.

Sarah: It sucks.

Mona: So, you know, it’s the same thing in sex work. So if you can find the clients that you enjoy, it’s just a much better job. The stigma – I think that sex work is an amazing job for single parents. While your kid’s in school from nine to three, you can see clients, and those clients go to work late or come and see you on their lunch break, and then when your kids are home, you’re home with your kids.

Sarah: Yeah.

Mona: You create your own schedule. Your kids go away to camp for a week? You hustle your ass off.

Sarah: Yep.

Mona: Your kids are off school for a week? You take off on a road trip! You, you know, it doesn’t, like, you don’t have, you know, that nine to five –

Sarah: So you can, you can, as a professional sex worker, fit your work around your schedule as needed.

Mona: Yes.

Sarah: Now you are also a kink mentor, and you teach other people about how to embrace kink and also how to become more kinky, if that’s something that you’re into. What does that involve? How do you teach people, how do you teach people in your, in your online coursework and in person?

Mona: I do a lot of talking with them about what it is that they find erotic. I try to make sure that – first, I try to make sure that they, I, they understand that when you’re working with a therapist, the therapist is working with the past. I’m a coach and helping you move forward. We’re looking at something in the future. So even though I do go over any kind of sexual history, most of it is to get to know you enough to move forward. We talk about things that you find erotic. Sometimes people don’t quite understand what they find erotic. What I find with women is that women’s pleasure education starts with boyfriends and partners, and they end up doing things for those partners to enter-, you know, to help, you know, their relationship move forward, but they don’t really do what they want to do, and they don’t always know what they want to do, because women are shamed for any kind of sex, interest in sex, especially nonstandard interest in sex.

Sarah: Yes.

Mona: So I find a lot of women who I’m working with who are like, you know, either they’ve been in, like, a total sexless relationship and they’ve wanted to try something, but their partner wasn’t into it, and now they’re single and they’re like, or they have a new partner and they’re like, now I want to try all the things, but I don’t exactly understand what all the things are!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: Or it’s somebody who realizes that they’ve been doing the same thing because that’s what they started doing with their boyfriend or their husband, and they’ve been just following their lead –

Sarah: Right.

Mona: – and suddenly they’re forty, and they’re like, I don’t even really know what I want to do.

Sarah: Yes, women are not at all taught to engage with their own desire. What’s so interesting to me in listening to you talk about this is that it’s a very similar process for me sometimes recommending romance novels to people: not just what plots do you like or what characters do you like, but how much sexuality do you want in your books? Do you want extremely explicit material, or do you not want that? Is there specific things you’re looking for? And it’s interesting to me that, by and large, the people who I talk to who want book recommendations, once they overcome the internalized stigma of having this wonderful affection for romance fiction, once they’re sort of embracing the idea that, yes, this is what I want to read, when they begin to specifically name and identify the things that they want, it’s much easier to find the books that make them happy. Is that also true in, in kink work, where once you learn the, the language of what it is that you want, you’re better able to find and identify and fulfill your own desire?

Mona: Definitely, and as much as Fifty Shades of Grey is not a book that I would really recommend, it is amazing the conversations that it has started.

Sarah: How so? That was so one of my questions; you know it was.

[Laughter]

Mona: It, it has given women a language to use.

Sarah: Yes.

Mona: It has given – like, and that’s one of the things: when I’m talk-, when somebody’s like, how do I bring this up to my partner? I’m like, well, over a glass of wine, one glass, maybe two, not three or four or five, because then you’re going to be having the same conversation again tomorrow with a hangover.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: Or during dirty talk. That’s a great time to bring up, you know, nonstandard interests. You know, I, or pop culture, and Fifty Shades of Grey is this huge pop culture reference that everybody knows, and it’s easy to bring up – easier to bring up a conversation, because that’s so in the forefront of everybody’s minds.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mona: I mean, everybody knows, whether you’ve read it or not, Fifty Shades of Grey.

Sarah: Right. And, and, and that Fifty Shades heavily involved kink; not exactly safe or consensual kink, but it involved kink.

Mona: Yes, and then it brings up a conversation of consent. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yes, yes! I can imagine.

[Laughter]

Mona: Because consent is, especially in kink – I mean, consent is a, a tricky thing. You consent to go to Aunt Mildred’s for Thanksgiving, for the big Thanksgiving dinner, when you really don’t want to. You consented, and you’re there. So in kink, you need to look at the reasons why your partner is consenting. Are they consenting because they’re scared –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mona: – that you’ll, like, leave them if they don’t consent? Are they consenting because they’re drunk? Are they consenting because they think they have to? And I think there’s a lot of because she thought she had to in that book.

Sarah: Which is a problem.

Mona: Which is a big problem, yeah.

Sarah: But at the same time, it also presents this opportunity for someone who is curious about kink, having read about it, to learn, not only are there steps to make sure that it’s safe, but that, but the things that are portrayed in that book are not the only form of kink there is, so it’s not like you’re limited to that one thing.

Mona: Right, you’re not. There’s so, so much out there.

Sarah: [Laughs] Are you still seeing clients? Do you still have clients in, in your, in your day?

Mona: I still see a couple of clients, yes. I’m going to see my human pony next weekend. I saw a client last weekend, and I probably won’t see another client for a couple of months. Sort of seems to come in waves-

Sarah: Right.

Mona: I’ve actually spent a lot of time lately just buckling down and writing on my book, so I haven’t seen as many.

Sarah: What is your book?

Mona: I’m so glad you asked!

Sarah: Hey, I’m all about book! You said book, and I was like, okay, so there’s the next hour! Go ahead.

Mona: [Laughs]

Sarah: Is this Kinky Sex Tips for Curious Girls?

Mona: Yes.

Sarah: Yes! Amanda? Amanda, are you excited right now?

Amanda: I am very excited.

[Laughter]

Mona: I’m so excited for this book. It’s something that I started last June. I thought it was going to be a little pamphlet.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: It’s grown.

[Laughter]

Mona: And in fact, I’m seeing more clients, ‘cause I have to pay an editor, and I, yeah. So what it is is, it is a, a BDSM activity book for curious beginners. It’s aimed at people who are novice, who want to get in and do it right. It talks about consent and communication, in addition to, like, the how-tos, but a lot of it talks about the emotional behind-the-scenes that goes on with different games. But then it’s an activity book, so you get to learn about new words, and then you get to find them in word finds and crossword puzzles and mazes and color pages, and there’s even paper dolls on the back.

Sarah: So this is basically like the best activity coloring book ever.

Mona: I hope so!

[Laughter]

Mona: I hope so! Oh my God, I’ve been working on it, a little obsessed. I’m hitting that, like, I can’t do it anymore! state.

[Laughter]

Mona: But, yeah, it’s, there’s all kinds of color pages and all kinds of information. There’s a color, decorate a penis page, and –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Amanda, are you excited for the decorate a penis page?

Amanda: I’m laughing. I think it’s great.

Mona: [Laughs]

Sarah: I think it’s awesome! [Laughs] I know Amanda has questions as well. I have, I have one more that I wanted to ask.

Mona: Mm-hmm?

Sarah: Do you notice, in your, in your experience as a professional dominatrix, do you notice that there are some fetishes or kinks that are much more common than others, and that people think that they’re the only ones with that, with that fetish?

Mona: I think that even with the internet, that people still feel like special flowers –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: – and something, and I mean, the thing is that even if, you know, it’s something as simple as spanking –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mona: – you feel like, I’m into spanking, but I’m not like those other people that are into spanking. I mean, I’m a mom, I’m on the PTA, you know, I just, nobody can ever know this about me, because I, you know, I’m just not like those other people. You know, so I, I run across a lot of that.

Sarah: Oh, that’s interesting! That’s like a whole bunch of stigma and shame internalized into a person.

Mona: Yes. So, and then sometimes people do feel like, working with women, I’ve noticed that women who have rape, rape fantasies or any kind of, like, choking fantasy – you know, basically being physically overpowered – have a really hard time coming to grips with that, because, especially, like, with the #MeToo movement right now, you know, women aren’t supposed to want that, but it’s taboo, and some women want that, and to have that acted out in a safe place can be incredibly erotic and incredibly intimate, but there’s still so much shame about having those kind of fantasies. If that makes sense.

Sarah: No, that does make sense. That’s really interesting. Amanda.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Do you have questions?

Amanda: Of course I do!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: First of all, Mona, you have such an attractive speaking voice.

Mona: Oh, thank you! [Laughs]

Amanda: Do you get that at all? I mean, your voice is really lovely.

Mona: Oh, thank you. I do get that a lot, and I don’t quite understand.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: When I first moved in with my boyfriend, now husband of many, many, many years, I, we had, you know, it was back in the day, we had this thing called an answering machine?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: And it was a, on a home phone, an actual phone that was, like, wired to the wall. These are back in the, back in the days. And when we moved in together, like, I recorded a message on our new together home phone, and we would have, we would have his call repeatedly and listening, and it’s like, dude, we’re sitting right here monitoring our calls, and we see you calling and hanging up.

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh no!

Mona: [Laughs] Hanging up!

Sarah: And, and with your experience in kink, you’re probably like, I know what’s happening here.

Mona: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: [Laughs] Oh no!

Mona: But I’ve also done a lot of erotic humiliation – erotic humiliation – erotic – [laughs] – hypnosis, and my erotic hypnosis instructor told me I was gifted. I was like, aw! How neat! But, yeah, I, I don’t hear it. I feel like I sound like a, a geeky, nerdy, I don’t know, yeah. I don’t see it. I don’t hear it. Obviously.

Amanda: [Laughs] So I read a lot of romance novels that do have BDSM content in them, and I probably would liken romance to kind of getting me into kink and BDSM, but I also wonder how real the portrayal is? In romance, a lot of the time, there’re always, like, sex clubs and sex dungeons, and everyone’s wearing leather pants, and dominatrixes are harder to come by than, like, men who are Doms, so I’m curious in those respects, how accurate is that? Like, are sex clubs and sex dungeons more prominent than I think they are, or are they more, I don’t know, not as popular as romance makes them seem in terms of the clientele and the people who work there? Like, what is the gender percentage? Like, are male Doms more frequent or more popular? That sort of thing.

Mona: I don’t actually go to a lot of sex clubs, but the ones that I have been to – I probably go to more than the average person, but the ones I’ve been to, there is a lot of male energy. The ones that I like to go to have more female energy.

Sarah: Oh gosh, I can’t imagine why.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: Yeah. But I also tend – like, I’m a hard, I’m not a great person to ask about that, because I also, like, if I’m going to go to a sex club or a kink club, I’m going to go with, you know, coworkers of mine, and sometimes we have our own, and it’s really hard to go out to, like, a public play party when you could just call some friends –

[Laughter]

Mona: – and do it in your own dungeon. Yeah, that’s what you get when you get an introvert dominatrix. I’m like, that’s people out there. Oh, I don’t know. But, yeah, there, there’s a lot of male Doms, and the male Doms do like their leather pants.

[Laughter]

Mona: The thing is that there’s so many fetish – when I was in the Bay Area and went to fetish clubs, like, everybody was, like, trying to wear the most fetish-y, like, expensive latex, expensive leather, but I’m in Portland, Oregon, now, and it’s just, I feel like it’s more realistic. You go, and people are wearing, you know, comfortable fetish wear, which is, like, a shiny dress – [laughs] – you know? I’m not good with going out, so, hmm.

[Laughter]

Mona: I can’t answer those questions as well as you want them answered, I’m sure.

Amanda: If, like, someone were looking to find a space like that, is there, or are they any resources you would recommend in terms of vetting as far as, like, a cursory Google search goes? [Laughs]

Mona: What I would start with is finding your nearest sex toy store. Like Good Vibes – now I’m going to draw a blank on all the sex stores I know except for Good Vibes.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Well, we have a few Good Vibrations in Boston, and that’s usually the ones I, the one I go to.

Mona: Yeah, so if you can find those kinds of stores – not, you know, the creepy plastic dildo in a twenty-dollar clamshell case – if you can find a good, solid, ethical sex shop, which I know can be a bit of a unicorn in some parts, those are good places, because those will have the flyers for whatever events are going on. I know that in Portland we have a bunch of places. We’re really lucky that we have a lot of sex-positive spaces.

You can also Google munches in your local area, M-U-N-C-H, and a munch is a kinky gathering of people. It usually takes place in a coffee shop. It’s usually alcohol-, and it’s always play-free, so it’s a time to go and just, in your vanilla clothes, and get to know other people that are in the scene, and you can ask them about where play parties might be. The munches are generally really, like, casual and, like, really on the DL. If you saw people outside you would just, from the outside you would just think they were, you know, talking about the weather.

[Laughter]

Mona: So those are always good places to start your –

Amanda: I have another question that’s a little bit, like, personal –

Mona: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – so maybe you might want to, like, bill me for –

[Laughter]

Amanda: But, so I’ve been, you know, dating my partner for about two years now –

Mona: Mm-hmm?

Amanda: – and when we first started dating I was very upfront with my, like, sexual proclivities and, you know, what I was into, and we did go to, like, Good Vibrations together and, you know, get stuff and, you know, he researched how to, like, do knots for, like, rope work, so –

Mona: Mm-hmm?

Amanda: – at the start of our relationship, we did a lot of, like, kink stuff, and we, there’s, like, a box in my closet with all of our gear and stuff like that, but now I’ve noticed that, like, you know, I spent all this money on, like, awesome toys and, like, kink stuff, and now they never get used.

[Laughter]

Amanda: So I’m, part of me is worried that, I know you mentioned before that women in relationships will do or try new sexual things in order to, like, please their partner and further their relationship, so I’m concerned, like, that’s what happened, is that he was into trying these things and doing these things and has maybe, like, realized it’s not for him?

Mona: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: So, and that’s my concern is, BDSM stuff is not a requirement for me sexually, it’s not a deal-breaker, but it, I do feel like if those elements don’t occur every once in a while that I don’t feel as sexually fulfilled, if that makes any sense.

Mona: It totally makes sense.

Amanda: So what’s your advice on reconciling those conflicting emotions?

Mona: Communication.

Amanda: Yes.

[Laughter]

Amanda: Of course.

Mona: So everybody gets in a rut. Things are always shinier and new and sexier when you’re first getting to know each other, so it might not necessarily be that they are not, that he is not into BDSM; it just may have fallen off his radar because it’s not his, it’s not his thing. Some of that can be rectified with communication. Maybe you can find a class or something to take together or at least point out, hey, this class looks interesting! By the way, we haven’t done this in a long time!

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: And so a lot of it is just, it boils down to communication and talking to them about what it is that they’re interested in. I also find that a lot of people who are getting in, you know, trying to get their partners into kink are teaching them how to do things, and they’re showing them websites on how to do this and how to do that, but the how is, like, several steps down – you know, you have to know how, but you also want to know the emotional, like, needs behind play. You know, if you’re going to be into spanking, are you into spanking because, you know, it’s a playful, fun little thing? Are you into spanking because you really need the release of an intense spanking? Are you into spanking because it’s part of a, a roleplay that is much more involved, involving, you know, your high school teacher and, you know, a cousin? The other thing is that when somebody is getting into kink for their partner, that they may not, they don’t have the same fantasies and thoughts and ideas, and so that creative muscle isn’t as strong in them, so where you, like, read a lot, have all of these interests, and all of these things are going on in your head, and that’s very natural for you, he may just not have those creative muscles flowing, and so a lot of times I suggest reading erotica to each other, and in this case I prefer, like, anthologies, because that way you can go through – you know, it’s sort of like erotic flash cards.

[Laughter]

Mona: You can start reading: nope, that’s not it; nope, that’s not it. Nope! Oh, that’s it! And then, you know, as you know, reading is much more detailed than watching porn. You can watch porn, and you can see, oh, like, I see spanking; I like spanking, but when you’re reading a book that’s about an erotic spanking, it’s more about what’s going on in the spanker’s mind and the spankee’s mind, and so there’s a lot of, a lot more texture there for people who are learning about it. So part of it is communication and, and just how you communicate and talking to them about what it is you want and helping them find what it is that they want, and then mixing them together into a special potion!

[Laughter]

Amanda: I, I think I have one final question, and it has to do with pornography. And I know, like, in my personal life, when I have, like, a partner and I tell them about, like, my kink and what I’m into, they have this preconceived notion of, like – I’m, I mean I’m assuming – from watching porn of, like, I’m supposed to talk like this and do this and act a certain way, and it usually winds up making me laugh because it’s so over the top, and it’s like this is not –

[Laughter]

Amanda: So if you’re seeing a client for the first time or someone who is new to this whole scene, do you find that they have these kind of over-the-top, you know, melodramatic maybe, or, like, preconceived notions about, like, how something is supposed to go or sound like or feel like or look like, you know, because of probably, like, the media that they’ve consumed?

Mona: Oh, so much so! Oh my God.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: First off, we, as humans, get way too much of our pleasure education from pornography, so I see that in women that think they’re supposed to scratch their partner’s back; or that they have to spread their legs, like, super wide; or they have to, like, you know, make strange noises that are really loud –

Sarah: [Laughs]

Mona: – to show they’re having a good time. And I, I, I’ve learned this from neighbors. I’m just like, oh, honey, no.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Mona: Yay, apartment living! So when it comes to kink, a lot of it, you know, it never shows negotiation, and when you hear negotiation, people are like, oh, like, I don’t want to sit down and talk; that just ruins everything. Negotiations should be sort of like foreplay. I really want a spanking. Yeah, I really want a spanking. I really want it hard. I want to, like, do this. Like, it should be a little bit of foreplay. It should all base, be based in reality, not fantasy? You need to talk about things you really want to do, and then if you’re talking about things that you really want to try maybe someday, but you want to dirty talk about now, you need to make sure that’s a set, you know – I want to talk about my rape fantasy while you’re fucking me and tying me up. I do not want to be raped. So anal sex is another good one where people don’t understand that there is prep and cleanup.

Amanda: Oh yeah. They, they just think it’s just going to slip right in. [Laughs]

Mona: Slide that sucker right in there! To the hilt! All the way! Let’s go! And then also I have a lot of problems where clients are coming to see me, and they really feel like they’re supposed to act a certain way; they’re supposed to, like, you know, never make eye contact with me and acquiesce to anything that it is, that I want to do, and, you know, what do you want to do, I ask, and they say, anything! Like, great! I’m going to take your clothes off, put you in a diaper, stick you in the corner with your thumb in your mouth until you can tell me what it is you want to do. People assume that certain things are only, you know, well, I can’t be into this, because I’m a top and, you know, I like my ass massaged during sex, and I would like a little spanking, but I’m a top, so I can’t do that. But that’s not true, because you can do anything and mix up anything that you like. There’s, like, very stereotypical, submissives are self-loathing and, like, dominants are cruel, when just none of this is true. You can mix up any kind of activity that you want; you can mix up any kind of persona that you want. There is no right; there’s only what’s right for you. And what you see in porn is, like, a lot of what you don’t see is the negotiation and the communication and the prep and the cleanup and, you know, in BDSM there’s two humans that are meeting as equal that take on the roles of submissive and dominant. You don’t see any of the communication. Kink and BDSM is extremely intimate.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Mona: So, does that answer your question in a roundabout, roundabout, roundabout, roundabout way?

[Laughter]

Amanda: Yes, it does.

Sarah: When does your book, when is your book scheduled to come out? Does it have a release date?

Mona: I kept giving it those and then missing them, so I’m going to say March?

Sarah: Cool!

Mona: And also I wanted to mention that I do host my own little kink talk on O.school. Do you guys know about O.school?

Sarah: I do not!

Mona: Ohhh! O.school is this new online platform. It’s for, it’s for mixing up the whole sex education and pleasure education; you can get both there, because un-, unlike most people think, both of those are really intimately involved with each other. There’re instructors that talk about everything from vaginal health to gender, and on Mondays I host a talk about kinky sex, so come check it out!

Sarah: I’m gonna, and I’ll make sure to, I’ll make sure to link to it too, because this is incredible!

Mona: Yeah, O.school is really, really – I’m like, I’m so honored to be part of it. It’s a bunch of really amazing people. And most of ‘em are really highly, like, you know, sexologists, and they have doctors of sexology, and then I’m like, hey, I stuck a jalapeño in a guy’s penis once.

Sarah: Ahh!

[Laughter]

Mona: There’re really, really amazing women on there, and men, and people talking about all kinds of sexual health and pleasure.

Sarah: This is brilliant. Thank you so much. And that’s, according to your website, that’s Monday afternoons, six to eight Pacific time –

Mona: Yes.

Sarah: – on O.school Live.

Mona: But it’s not just kink; O.school has all kinds of things, so. They broadcast every night. Log in and see what’s going on.

Sarah: This is so cool!

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this episode. Thank you to Mona Darling for hanging out with us and talking with us about everything that she does.

If you’ve got questions or ideas or suggestions, you want to just talk to us, that’s awesome; you should totally email us. [email protected]. You can also send us a voice memo if you like, or you can tweet at us @SmartBitches. Either way, we love hearing from you, because you are all brilliant people.

This episode was brought to you by GrantStation. If you are passionate about a cause or you work with or support a nonprofit organization – which may be very true because I have learned most nonprofit organization staff are women between thirty and sixty, so this may very well be extremely relevant to your interests, and oddly enough, I worked for several nonprofits, and it was between the ages of thirty and where I am now, so this also applied to me about five, six years ago. At GrantStation, we provide the tools for your nonprofit organization to find new grant sources, build a strong grantseeking program, and write winning grant proposals. Do you struggle to identify funding sources? Let GrantStation do the preliminary work for you. We profile a wide range of funders that accept unsolicited requests, including foundations, corporate giving programs, faith-based grantmakers, association grant programs, giving circles, and more. Does a lack of time limit your ability to submit grant requests? We have tutorials on creating time and making space for grant proposals. Do you have a grant strategy for 2018? Well, we offer a three-pronged approach to help you develop an overall strategic plan to adopting a powerful grantseeking program. Instead of combing through search results that include sources that are by invitation only, GrantStation’s database allows you to find the grant programs which best suit your organizational needs. Their narrative approach allows them to include nuanced details about each grantmaker’s funding priorities, geographic focus, and application procedure, and they have a clean, easy-to-use, user-friendly interface that quickly and easily brings you the information that you need. GrantStation’s job is to profile a wide range of grantmakers open to supporting the work that you do. Your job is to make sure that you have access to those grantmakers. You can get an annual membership at GrantStation for just $159. That is a very low price compared to the normal year-long subscription, but the $159 offer is for a limited time. Plus, you can receive a free gift: free attendance to Jean Block’s classic webinar 60+ Great FUNdraising Ideas in 90 Minutes. You will be inspired. You can learn more at grantstation.com, and thank you to GrantStation for sponsoring this episode!

The transcript for this week is brought to you by A Duke in the Night by Kelly Bowen. If you like Sarah MacLean and Tessa Dare, you will love this Regency romance. Duke, scoundrel, titan of business, August Faulkner is a man of many talents, not the least of which is enticing women into his bedchamber. He is known and reviled for buying and selling companies, accumulating scads of money, and breaking hearts. It is a reputation he wears like a badge of honor, and one that he intends to keep. Clara Hayward, the headmistress of the Haverhall School for Young Ladies, is, on the other hand, above reproach, but when she is reunited with August, all she can think of is the way she felt in his arms as they danced a scandalous waltz ten long years ago. Even though her head knows that he is only back in her life to take over her family’s business, her heart can’t help but open to the very duke who could destroy it for good. RT Book Reviews raves, “What a way to start the Devils of Dover series!” Can these opposites find a second chance at romance? A Duke in the Night by Kelly Bowen is on sale now wherever books are sold. You can find out more at kellybowen.net and forever-romance.com. And thank you for sponsoring this week’s transcript, which, as you know, are compiled by garlicknitter. Thank you, garlicknitter! [You’re welcome! – gk]

The music that you’re listening to is provided by Sassy Outwater. This is “The Naughty Step” by the Peatbog Faeries. This is from their album Live @ 25. You can find it at iTunes and at Amazon, and you can find out more about the Peatbog Faeries at peatbogfaeries.com!

We have a podcast Patreon. I tell you about it all the time, but I’m going to tell you about it again! It is patreon.com/SmartBitches. Every time I get an email notifying me that someone has made a pledge, I am so excited and so honored I can’t even describe it. I get a little teary, to be completely honest with you. If you have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches, you can see the pledge levels. Monthly pledges beginning with one dollar make a deeply appreciated difference in my continuing the show, producing it each week, and commissioning transcripts for older episodes that don’t have a transcript yet.

I want to thank some of the Patreon folks personally, so to Amy, Carisa, Nita, nk, Laura, and Elizabeth, thank you for being part of the podcast community.

Are there other ways to support the show? Yes, and I bet you can tell me what they are. You can Like the show wherever you listen. You can subscribe. You can leave a review, which helps other people find us, and your reviews are fantastic and very funny. But if you are listening right now, I am very grateful. Thank you very much for joining me each week!

Now I have an end joke. It’s terrible. I’m super excited about this joke. It’s really bad! [Laughs] All right.

Why do ducks wear pants?

Do you know why ducks wear pants? Why do ducks wear pants?

To cover their butt-quacks!

[Laughs] I have said butt-quack to way too many people today. It is super embarrassing. My twelve-year-old is horrified by my terrible jokes! I hope you like that one.

On behalf of Amanda and myself, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend. We will see you here next week.

[really nice music]