Smart Podcast, Trashy Books Podcast

252. Academic in Death: An Interview with Dr. Kecia Ali

Today I chat with Dr. Kecia Ali, Professor of Religion at Boston University, and author of a new book, Human in Death: Morality and Mortality in JD Robb’s Novels. We discuss what inspired her to write a book about the series, which is now 45+ books in, and what she discovered with her multiple and attentive re-reads of key novels. We talk about portrayals of ethics, family, friendship, race, women’s work, and of course violence, and we hear what she’s working on next – and of course what Dr. Ali is reading, too.

If you’re at all familiar with the In Death world, this part should not be a surprise: Trigger Warnings for discussion of sexual assault, violence, abuse, and rape in the plots of the In Death books.

I also want to give a very special thank you to Dr. Sara Ronis, Assistant Professor of Biblical Studies at St. Mary’s University in Texas. She emailed me before this book came out to suggest. Dr. Ali as a guest – and she was totally right. I learned so much from this interview. So thank you to Dr. Ali, and to Dr. Ronis.

And! If you’re at all curious about Human in Death, Dr. Ali’s book, her publisher, Baylor Press, has been supremely awesome!

First, we have a giveaway of one hardcover copy, so if you’d like to enter, head over to the podcast entry. There will be a Rafflecopter widget for you to drop your email into. This giveaway is open to US and Canada only, must be over 18 and ready to learn all the things, void where prohibited. By submitting  an entry to the contest as set forth herein, each entrant does acknowledge and agree that, in the event such entrant is victorious, such entrant will perform a ceremony reasonably appropriate to such circumstance, including, without limitation, the Miposian Dance of Joy or all the dances from What the Fox Said.

a Rafflecopter giveaway

We also have a discount code! Use code BSBT at BaylorPress.com, and you ’ll get 20% off the cover price and free shipping. Thank you to Dr. Ali, and to David and Savannah at Baylor Press for hooking us up.

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Here are the books we discuss in this podcast:

You can learn more about Kecia Ali and her work at her website, and on her BU page as well.

And if you’re interested in the romance track at the PCA/ACA conference, there are a ton of details online.

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This Episode's Music

Our music is provided each week by Sassy Outwater, whom you can find on Twitter @SassyOutwater.

This is from Caravan Palace, and the track is called “Maniac.”

You can find their two album set with Caravan Palace and Panic on Amazon and iTunes. And you can learn more about Caravan Palace on Facebook, and on their website.


Podcast Sponsor

Falling for Trouble

This week’s podcast is brought to you by Falling for Trouble by Sarah Title.

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Joanna never thought she’d have to come back to her dull, tiny fishbowl of a hometown ever again. She almost had a record deal for her all-girl rock band. She almost had it made in L.A. And then her deal went sour and her granny broke her leg . . . and now here she is, running into everybody’s favorite librarian every time she heads to a dive bar or catches up with old friends.

He has charm, he has good taste in music—and the sight of him in running shorts is dangerously distracting. But when he loves her old town and she can’t wait to check out, their new romance is surely destined for the book drop….

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Transcript

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This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.

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  1. M Dry says:

    I loved this podcast. I just ordered my copy of the book. Definately do more podcasts like this.

  2. Crystal says:

    I am ready for the Five Guys Dystopia. THEIR FRIES.

    Great podcast, by the way. I’ve been reading those books for 20 odd years, and yeah, this was very enjoyable for me to listen to on my first day back to regular work in two weeks.

  3. azteclady says:

    Heads up: the cover of Secrets in Death is repeated, but the link takes you to the ‘missing’ cover (for White Rage by Carol Anderson)

    As said above, excellent podcast, and fantastic topic. This book (Human in Death) will be mine, on way or another.

  4. Amanda says:

    @azteclady: Fixed, thank you!

  5. Hazel says:

    Thank you for this podcast. It’s great that academics are taking such a thoughtful look at popular fiction. I’ve never been a Nora Roberts fan, but I may try one of the titles mentioned.

  6. Kareni says:

    Thanks for yet another enjoyable interview!

  7. T. L. B. says:

    Great discussion.
    Another Roarke prototype is Brandon Carstairs from Once More With Feeling from 1983.

    And Roarke, except for his newly discovered family, appears to have left all his mates behind except for when they’re necessary to remind us of his past. He’s adopted Eve’s expanding network of family/friends. Surely he should have some business colleagues that he views as equals and friends, where are they?

  8. chacha1 says:

    +1 on great discussion. I’ve read all of the In Death books, some multiple times, and have noticed a lot of things called out here. Would love to see Robb/Roberts get a little more topical with the series. It doesn’t have to be all Issues all the time, but I do think there’s a lot that could be done with race, with gender, with disability, in the context of the In Death world.

    Because Eve’s private world is quite homogenous and it doesn’t make sense that it would be. Not after coming up through the foster-care system, living in what (even in real life) is one of the most diverse cities in the world, working in what (even in real life) is one of the most diverse professions. I think it’s past time for her to accrue a recurring-character close female friend who is not another of the fifty shades of white/straight.

    As to Issues: to my mind, the benefit of being topical in genre fiction – if you are a widely-read writer with a proven ability to be topical without going off the rails into preachy – you can switch someone’s perspective very subtly. You don’t have to beat people over the head.

    I would much rather digress from the core plot a little to deal with Issues than to wallow in serial-killer POV. I hate that. More righteous rage, and less torture porn.

  9. Divya says:

    Okay, this podcast came out on the best day possible and let me explain why.

    So I’m a 20 year old student at Cornell University who is staying in Ithaca for the summer. I’m a voracious romance reader (with a sprinkling of YA and SFF) and I love, love JD Robb. I read Naked in Death as a twelve year old (I started romance very young, lol, and my mom had no idea what books I was reading because these covers didn’t look romancey!) and in less three months, I read *every single book and novella* in the series (by the time I was done, the series was up to PROMISES IN DEATH). Thank god my library didn’t have long hold times. It consumed my every being and it was my very first romance novel (okay, not *exactly* a romance but considering I started to read NR afterwards, it was my introduction). And for the past eight years, I’ve religiously used my book allowance money (my mom let me have $20/month for book money up until I got a job and pretty much spend exclusively on books) to buy these books on release day. So I have a very, very special place in my heart for these books. Which is not to say that I can’t critique these books – I’m a woman of South Asian heritage and like Dr. Ali said, Robb’s WOC readers are very aware that Eve’s inner circle is white. But I think that Robb is more aware of this in recent books (ie the introduction of Dr. DeWinter and even Santiago. The wonderful thing about these books is that Eve definitely has room to expand her inner circle (ie her bullpen) and I hope Robb takes the opportunity to introduce more POC/non-heterosexual characters.

    This long preamble then brings us to today. No one in my real life reads romance (trust me, I’ve tried) and I live in an isolated place where my favorite authors (Ilona Andrews, Julie James, etc) never come for signings. You would think someone in this university reads romances, but I’ve yet to find them. But after work ended today, I got on the bus to go home. That’s when I saw an older black woman (older than college aged anyway) on the bus, and she was reading a library copy of Echoes in Death (the latest book that came out in February). My excited brain totally lost sense of manners and I completely freaked her out with, “OH MY GOD. I LOVE THOSE BOOKS. WHAT PART ARE YOU ON???”. She was startled initially (she had headphones on and who talks to strangers on a bus?!?) but we started talking about our mutual adoration of the series. She told me that she owned every book in paperback at home, but had waited to check out ECHOES from the library because hardcover was too expensive. What then transpired was the most amazing conversation in my life: we gushed over our favorite scenes, the awesomeness of the holiday-set novels, our favorite side characters (mine is Mira; hers is Nadine), and even talked about the lack of WOC in the books (although she did say that she loved that Whitney/Tibble – Eve’s superiors in the NYPSD – were black). I lost track of my surroundings and missed my stop. Feeling like a total fool, I pretended that I was really going to Target (the last stop in the route) and even bought some batteries to maintain my fiction. Even though it took me an extra hour to get home (damn those infrequent bus schedules!), it was so, so worth it. Talking online is fun, but talking in person is it’s own magic.

    Okay, I swear I’m getting to a point in this dissertation. Right after I got home (about 90 minutes ago), I downloaded the new podcast and YOU GUYS WERE TALKING THE IN DEATH BOOKS. I don’t believe in coincidences, but man, this was a pretty great turn of events. I loved, loved the discussion you had (and especially loved that academics write about popular fiction. I wonder if any Cornell professors here read romances!) I’m kinda broke now, but your book sounds super interesting. This has been a pretty awesome Friday evening, and now I just want to reread my favorite JD Robb books this weekend.

  10. Arethusa says:

    That was awesome. Do more of it! I faded out of these series quite some time ago but still enjoyed it.

  11. Susan says:

    Thanks for the great podcast.

    I started the In Death series when it first came out, made it up to about book 10, and stalled. This literally happened 3 times where I reread the first books over again (because I’d forgotten too much to just pick up where I left off). I really tried to like them enough to continue, but just couldn’t. But, for some reason, I decided to try them one more time–in audio this time–last fall. That was the ticket for me and I’m now on book 23 (although I still don’t really like the first 3). The audio books are narrated by Susan Ericksen, and she’s fantastic, btw.

    I have most definitely noticed the dearth of LGBT characters in the books. It stood out even with the early ones, and has become increasingly noticeable. I wondered if that would change with later books, but I guess not. As for race, IIRC, there was a mention in Naked that there had been so much intermingling of races that many people weren’t easily categorized based on appearance. That said, it’s definitely true that white is the default throughout, and especially in Eve’s inner circle of female friends. TBH, I’ve thought about disability issues in the books, but only in passing. I guess, somewhere in the back of my mind, I just assumed that medical knowledge was so advanced that they were able to treat/cure/fix most conditions. (I mean, they have off-planet colonies and the AutoChef, so why not?) But it’s true that that doesn’t jibe with McNab’s injury.

    So much food for thought! I hope I have the opportunity to read Human in Death.

  12. Vasha says:

    Oh, Divya, I live near Cornell too! If you’re on campus around noon tomorrow (Saturday), I’ll be in the Olin Library cafe with a copy of Lord of Scoundrels. Stop by if you want to talk romances.

  13. Divya says:

    Vasha, I’m actually going to NYC this weekend!! 🙁 🙁 But yay for Ithaca romance readers.

  14. John says:

    @Divya and @Vasha Hi, I’m a recent IC grad and avid romance reader as well!! I’m in Ithaca until the end of July if either of you would like to talk romance/exchange books/etc! 🙂 I’m here until I find a full-time job as a post grad and would love the cheery and passionate discussion only romance readers can bring. 😀

  15. Vasha says:

    Hi John! How’s about this, I’ll make a sign saying Ithaca Romance Readers Meetup and try to be on the Commons at lunchtime any weekday it isn’t raining. Anybody from central New York is welcome.

  16. Kecia Ali says:

    So gratified to read these comments! @TLB, I have more thoughts about elements of Once More With Feeling, which i read for the first time last week, that made their way into In Death. And @Divya, I bet Cornell’s library has or could order a copy of Human in Death.

  17. Divya says:

    Vasha, email me at ds927@cornell.edu. 🙂 🙂 I do work from 9 to 5.

    Dr. Ali, I ended up buying a kindle copy but I will also suggest it to my librarian.

  18. Kecia Ali says:

    @Divya, I hope you enjoy it.

  19. Ruth says:

    I think the “In Death” novels may be gateway books for the romance genre. I don’t think I’ve ever been more astonished than when a 60-something man at a literary science fiction con told me that Nora Roberts was his “favorite living author,” and when I said something about JD Robb, he said no, he’d read ALL her books.

    And I have to agree with the good doctor: I’ve suggested both the Chesapeake Bay series and the Born In series as good books for people who’ve never read Nora Roberts (or non-literary, i.e. not Austen or Bronte, romance at all). I also really like the Vows series, especially “Vision in White,” which fits into what you were saying about Roberts writing about people who work in the arts as professionals and also about “made” families. And unlike most of her other series, the Vows series doesn’t have a supernatural element. Unfortunately, the Vows books were the last books of hers I really enjoyed.

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