In an interview recorded at RWA in San Diego, Sarah chats with author Sharon Kendrick, author of 100 books for Harlequin and Mills & Boon. We discuss the particular dynamics of Harlequin Presents, the essential absolute elements Harlequin Presents hero, and the unique connections between people, and between characters. Sharon reveals how she got started writing for Presents and how much she loves her job. (Spoiler: a lot!)
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This Episode's Music
Our music is provided by Sassy Outwater, who is awesome. This track is called “Percolator” and it’s by The Hanuman Collective from their album Pedal Horse. You can find their album at iTunes as well.
Podcast Sponsor
This episode is sponsored by Burn Down the Night by M. O’Keefe.
Set in the world of M. O’Keefe’s bestselling Everything I Left Unsaid, Burn Down the Night follows a beautiful con woman takes a bad-boy biker hostage in this edgy, seductive novel.
The only thing that matters to me is rescuing my sister from the drug-cooking cult that once enslaved us both. I’ve run cons my whole life, and I’ll use my body to get whatever I need. Max Daniels is the last connection I have to that world, the one person reckless enough to get involved. Besides, now that his brothers have turned on him, he needs me too.
The deal was supposed to be simple: a place to hide in exchange for rescuing my sister. Now he’s my prisoner. Totally at my mercy. But I’m the one captivated. Enthralled. Doing everything he asks of me until I’m not sure who’s in control.
We both crave the heat. The more it hurts, the better. But what if Max wants a different life now, to leave the game . . . to love me? I thought I knew better than to get burned. Now I’m in too deep to pull away. And the crazy thing is . . . I don’t want to.
Available August 9.
Transcript
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[music]
Sarah Wendell: Hello, and welcome to episode number 209 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell from Smart Bitches, Trashy Book, and with me today is author Sharon Kendrick. We recorded this interview at RWA in San Diego, and we chat about the one hundred plus books that she has written for Harlequin and Mills & Boon. We talk about the particular dynamics of Harlequin Presents, the essential elements of a Harlequin Presents hero, and the unique connections between people and between characters. We also talk about how much Sharon loves her job – spoiler alert: it’s a lot! – and we talk about how she got started writing for Presents.
This podcast is brought to you by Burn Down the Night by M. O’Keefe. It is perfect for fans of Everything I Left Unsaid as a dark, emotional, and dangerously sexy world where a con woman takes a bad-boy biker hostage, and their battle for control turns explosive. You can find Burn Down the Night wherever books are sold.
The transcript for this episode is brought to you by Happily Ever Afterlives, a two-in-one reissue of sexy Regency paranormal novellas by author Olivia Waite. In Damned If You Do, Lord Lambourne’s sexual prowess has condemned him to hell for lust, but the sharp and sultry Idared, the demoness assigned to punish him, is proving to be his greatest temptation yet. You can find Happily Ever Afterlives wherever eBooks are sold.
Our music is provided by Sassy Outwater. I will have information at the end of the episode as to who this is.
And I want to thank you for listening, for tuning in, for joining us, and to let you know that we have a podcast Patreon, should you be thinking this podcast is so rad. I agree; thank you. I think it’s pretty awesome too. If you’d like to support the show with pledges starting at a dollar a month, you can help me reach goals like transcripts for all of the episodes that don’t have one yet. You can find all the details and the rewards at Patreon.com/SmartBitches. But most of all, thank you for being here.
And now, without any further delay, on with the podcast!
[music]
Sharon Kendrick: Hello, Sarah from Smart Bitches.
Sarah: Hello, Sharon.
Sharon: So, I’m Sharon Kendrick, and I write for Harlequin Presents, which I happen to think is the most fantastic line in all of romantic fiction, but I would say that, wouldn’t I? And I’m just –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: – I’ve just had my hundredth book accepted, and it’s –
Sarah: Hundredth!
Sharon: The hundredth, yeah.
Sarah: Whoa! Congratu- – I didn’t know that!
Sharon: Yes!
Sarah: Holy shit! Congratulations! That’s amazing!
Sharon: Thank you! Oh, I thought that’s why you were doing this interview with me!
Sarah: No, I have been dying to interview you –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – generally because, essentially, you’re fabulous.
Sharon: Oh, darling, thank you. You’re fabulous too!
Sarah: Thank you.
Sharon: No, so –
Sarah: I’m a big fan.
Sharon: Aw, thank you, Sarah. So, no, and I’m getting, you know, I’m getting a, at the Harlequin party I’ll be getting a lovely Tiffany necklace.
Sarah: [Gasps]
Sharon: I know, and –
Sarah: That’s exciting.
Sharon: – and, yeah, just, but for me, writing a hundred books, it was like, it did feel like a really important milestone I, you know.
Sarah: That is an important milestone!
Sharon: But actually, with kind of Orwellian portent, I was much more worried about book 101 because I suddenly thought, oh, what, what if I can’t do it anymore? Do you know what I mean?
Sarah: [Laughs] What if, what if it just ran out, the tank’s run dry, and you’re screwed?
Sharon: I know! I know, but then I thought it was a bit like, you know, if you do judo and you, once you get a black belt, you go back to the white belt that’s the first one again. I quite like that certainly, so the great news is that my hundred-and-first book has just been, well, I think it’s almost accepted because my, the revisions were very light. The revisions were probably very light because I actually discarded twenty thousand words.
Sarah: That’ll do it.
Sharon: Yeah –
Sarah: That helps a lot.
Sharon: – which was hard to do, but, you know, it is that thing, that old-fashioned saying about kill your darlings. It might be the best writing in the world, but if it’s not working then, then it’s the worst writing in the world.
Sarah: And it just needs to go.
Sharon: Exactly.
Sarah: And maybe it’ll go somewhere else.
Sharon: Yeah. No, I know, I can never do that.
Sarah: No?
Sharon: I, you know, in theory, I always think, oh, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s quite good, I could use that for something else, but actually once it’s gone, it’s, it’s gone. The only time, the only time that that did, that that did differ was that they, Mills & Boon needed a book very quickly, and I had written, I’d written, like, you know, almost a complete book, but I hadn’t been happy with it, so I, I’d written something else instead, and, but I got it out and I had a look and, you know, with distance I thought, well, actually, this is all right, and it was fine, and it’s done really well. It’s funny, isn’t it, how distance can – because I’m reading, I mean, am I allowed to plug a book?
Sarah: Oh, gosh, yes. One of my favorite questions is to ask people what they’re reading.
Sharon: Well, I’m reading this book at the moment by a guy called Owen Sheers, and, I mean, it’s, it’s called I Saw a Man. I mean, it’s just, it’s just incredible. I can’t remember why I started talking about that book.
Sarah: Kill your darlings? Editing? Cutting things out?
Sharon: Editing –
Sarah: You were asked to write a quick project for Mills & Boon, and you had something written?
Sharon: Uh, well, as usual, my mind has gone off into a tangent. No, I –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: – I would just say, if you want to really, I mean, the New York Times described it as exquisite. It’s just a fantastically written, page-turning thriller. It’s, well, it’s not really a thriller, but it, it makes you think about life. I mean, I, yeah, yeah. Anyway. So, yeah, that’s that. That’s my introduction. [Laughs]
Sarah: So the hundredth, or the hundred-and-first book –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – has just been through revisions.
Sharon: Yes. And –
Sarah: Are you starting 102 now?
Sharon: Yes, and I’m, I’m very excited about 102, because readers really like a marriage of convenience book.
Sarah: That is a very, very potent piece of catnip, marriage of convenience. Forced proximity, can’t get away –
Sharon: But interestingly enough, it’s quite difficult to do nowadays, because actually, you know, and I don’t personally like the, the kind of book where the hero’s grandfather says, you know, if you want to inherit all the, you know, all the land in Italy you have to marry, because I think, oh, well, you know, just fuck off and, you know, earn your own money.
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: I think that makes him less of a man if he’s just complying in order to – the, the only way I, I thought I could make it work was actually if he was a sheikh, because then, if he was, if his maternal grandfather offered him this oil-rich tranche of land that would benefit his country, in that case he would do it for the good of his people, so it’s an altruistic reason, yeah.
Sarah: That adds a, that adds a, an altruistic nobility to the decision.
Sharon: Absolutely, rather than just self, self-interest and greed.
Sarah: Like, my, my personal happiness in my marriage is way secondary –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – to the overall wealth and benefit –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – for all of the people who are depending on me.
Sharon: And in fact he chooses, he’s going to choose a very ugly, unattractive woman because he’s, he decides the easiest way to do it, ‘cause he’s not intending to marry until he’s about fifty or sixty because men can procreate until, well, look at Charlie Chaplin, until they’re eighty, and so he’ll choose a young wife –
Sarah: Really? [Laughs]
Sharon: – when, when the time suits him, so he’s decided to choose himself an ugly, unattractive bride and, and not consummate it ‘cause then it can be dissolved quite easily, and of course it isn’t going to be quite that easy! [Laughs]
Sarah: No, it never works out the way the hero wants.
Sharon: Because she’s going to have to stain her lips with the, with the, the, the liquid of the, of some sort of fire berry that’s going to, you know, she’s never worn makeup before, obviously, and it’s, he’s going to realize how succulent and tender her lips are.
Sarah: Oh, bugger.
Sharon: [Laughs]
Sarah: Hate when that happens. I used to joke I wanted to go to romance novel law school so that I could write all those wills that required you to get married, stay in one place and –
Sharon: I know! I know!
Sarah: – you, I’m writing a will, and you have to get married –
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: – and live in a one-room shack on a really large tract of land in a very scary place in order to inherit –
Sharon: Absolutely.
Sarah: – and, and then all of that’s ironclad. [Laughs]
Sharon: But it’s funny, isn’t it, you know? You, you mention that, the, the will scenario. You know, obviously I, I, actually, no, I’ve never had a, the reading of a will, but, you know, there are scenarios that are so, that are so cliché that really should be avoided, and I think the will reading is one of them, you know.
Sarah: Oh, I’m totally with you.
Sharon: And also the hero’s, you know, the hero’s sports car hurtling down the high, side of the hill so the heroine has to kind of jump out of the way into a ditch, you know. I mean, come on. [Laughs]
Sarah: Yeah, come on, that, I think I’ve seen that in a movie, different movies, like, twenty different times.
Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: So what do you think are the essential elements of a good Presents? When you’re setting up a book, what are the absolutes that need to be there?
Sharon: The absolute thing is that he is undeniably the most devastatingly attractive, powerful –
Sarah: Potent.
Sharon: – alpha, potent, sexy hero. He’s the kind of man that you, you know, you might think intellectually – well, yeah, I suppose, how else would you think? But anyway, you might think he, I, he’s everything I loathe, I shouldn’t like him, and yet you can’t help yourself.
Sarah: Well, you also know that you have to instill a sort of, a core of nobility –
Sharon: Oh, for sure.
Sarah: – and altruism.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: There has to be some –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – some deeply hidden core of goodness.
Sharon: I was going to say, he’s always redeemable.
Sarah: Yes!
Sharon: But only by the heroine.
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: And that’s the secret, really. And –
Sarah: I never thought of it that way, but that’s totally the case.
Sharon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sarah: She is the key to his redemption.
Sharon: Yeah, she, yes, absolutely.
Sarah: And then you have the inexperienced, overwhelmed, often-virginal heroine who is into a world that she has no idea what to do with.
Sharon: Yeah, you see, I like, I mean, you know, people sometimes say, oh, well, you know, you’re writing a virgin heroine, this is so unrealistic, she’s twenty-four. You know, I don’t write a virginal heroine and then I get a load of people writing, I can’t believe, you know, this woman is a slut, you know?
[Laughter]
Sharon: Then I, then what –
Sarah: Sorry, can’t win!
Sharon: But also, I, well, I like the virginal heroine because everything she learns and everything she discovers is through him.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: And –
Sarah: And, speaking of potent, that’s very potent.
Sharon: It is very potent, and also, I mean, I suppose in a way, if you’re being absolutely honest, it, it’s quite a useful plot device because if the hero thinks she is [potently manly voice] nothing but a useless little tramp [normal voice] then –
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: – then obviously when he discovers she’s a virgin he realizes that that was a, a, a misjudgment. Do you see what I mean?
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: Whereas if she has, if she has had several lovers and she’s behaving in a, like, say she’s had to, you know, in order to save her dying uncle she’s had to – well, he’s not going to die because she’s going to sort something out – she has to dress up in a kind of sexy cocktail dress at, you know –
Sarah: And lure someone.
Sharon: And lure, well, she wouldn’t actually lure someone, but appear to be luring someone –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: Do you see what I mean?
Sarah: Yes, the misjudgment leads to another misjudgment.
Sharon: Yes. Yeah.
Sarah: Like when, like when you’re watching a crime drama, whichever character tells the little lie is hiding a big lie –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – so his little misjudgment –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – helps him see the big misjudgment that he’s made.
Sharon: Yeah, oh, well, actually, going back to that book by Owen Sheers – buy it, everyone! – that’s, that’s a lot about sort of, it’s a lot about those, those tiny decisions that you make that actually, that just have just unbelievable consequences –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – and, you know, he’s, yeah, it’s, it’s a very, it’s a very, it’s a beautifully written book. Yeah.
Sarah: That’s cool!
Sharon: Mm.
Sarah: So, do you read a lot of books that aren’t romance?
Sharon: Yes, I do, yeah.
Sarah: Do you read romance as well? Or do you just write it?
Sharon: I just write it, really.
Sarah: Yeah?
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: What brought you into Harlequin Presents and Mills & Boon?
Sharon: Well –
Sarah: A hund-, a hundred books ago, which, of course, was last week.
Sharon: I was very good at writing stories at school. You know, when I was at primary school, that’s like, I don’t know what you –
Sarah: Elementary school.
Sharon: Elementary school.
Sarah: I was just in England –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – like, two days ago, or actually yesterday. I’m really glad to be back in the States because I can cross the street without thinking about it for half an hour, but I’m very, very fluent now in my comparative terms.
Sharon: Well, yes, it, it’s funny how quickly you pick ‘em up, because I started saying line instead of queue.
Sarah: Queue, line, yep.
Sharon: [Laughs] Yep, yep.
Sarah: I had to correct myself from saying pants to trousers a couple of times –
Sharon: Oh, yes, yes.
Sarah: – ‘cause you’ve got to, you’ve got to hook the mic, the microphone, the lavator-, the lavalier mic into the waistband, and, like, I’m talking to six guys in this, in this conference where I’m like, yeah, you’ve got to slip it in your – trousers, not your pants! [Laughs]
Sharon: Yeah. I know, which is why I can never write, ‘cause I try and, you know, I’m very aware that when I’m writing I’m writing for, you know, an international market –
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: – and so I know that you say pants over here. I can’t, because for me it’s sort of –
Sarah: That’s underwear!
Sharon: It is underwear, yeah! And it just sort of –
Sarah: Is it under-
Sharon: So, yeah, so basically they, in the elementary school, they used to read my stories out, and then in secondary school as well. I tended to have a very good relationship with my English teacher, but then I, I, I wanted to be an actress, I wanted to be a journalist, I, you know, I quite liked art, but, you know, I, I didn’t come from the kind of background where people went to university, and so I left school at sixteen and went to secretarial college because, you know, the, the kind of life I’d been living, girls at that time became either secretaries, teachers, or nurses.
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: And, but all my life I’d, you know, all my life I’d written, so I used to, I used to write, I did a, you know, magazine at school that I, you know, self-published. Well, I published. What am I talking about, self-published? I wrote a –
Sarah: You did self-publish it!
Sharon: Yeah, I suppose I did, yeah.
Sarah: You ran, if you ran it off on the mimeograph machine –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – it’s still self-publishing, even then.
Sharon: There was a lovely cartoon I used to do drawings for called “The Adventures of Edith.” Poor old Edith, she –
[Laughter]
Sharon: – she used to wear size ten Army boots. Anyway, and –
Sarah: All right, Edith!
Sharon: – and then, then I, yeah, I just, I used to love writing, and then I, I did become a nurse, and actually when I was trained to be a nurse I used to write the hospital plays for the doctors and nurses, and then I got married and had a, a child, and I started, I thought, well, you know, you’ve always wanted to write a book, and I just, I don’t know, I’d always thought of writing Mills & Boon because I knew that they were the only publisher in the world, they probably still are, that would look at an unsolicited manuscript, and so I started writing a book where the heroine’s fiancé was a, a barrister, the baddy fiancé that dumped her, and a, a friend was round for lunch who had been a barrister, and he said, well, this is rubbish, you – he didn’t say rubbish; he said something a bit ruder than that – a, a barrister wouldn’t do that.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: So that is when I learnt the number one lesson about writing, which is write about what you know. So I’ve been a nurse, and I’ve been, spent a year in Australia, so I sat down. I, I then had another child very quickly, and when my son was three months old and my daughter was, like, twenty months, and we were living in this tiny flat, I used to write at night when they were asleep. Again, this thing about, well, I would write a book if only I had the time. If you want to write a book, you have to make the time. You have to have that hunger that makes you do it. And I sat down and I wrote Nurse in the Outback, sent it off to Mills & Boon, and it was published without a single change.
Sarah: Wow!
Sharon: So I was very fortunate. Well, I, I felt very fortunate to be, you know, to be able to earn my living as a writer, ‘cause I love writing, and I felt very fortunate that I, I found, found my genre straight away, and –
Sarah: And that was a, a Presents title.
Sharon: Well, it was, that was, that was, like, Mills & Boon Romance.
Sarah: Yes. Different, slightly different –
Sharon: Sorry, Mills & Boon, no, not Romance, Mills & Boon Medical.
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: So I wrote some of those, and then I, I wanted a bigger market, really, so I wanted the contemporary market, and so, so I wrote one, rejected, two, rejected, three, rejected. I, you know, I didn’t like that at all. I wrote the fourth one, and it needed four lots of revisions, and then it was accepted, and funnily enough, Mills & Boon asked me to go in a, a couple of years ago and talk about, you know, to the sales team about my writing career, and when I said that bit I sort of said, oh, gosh, that, you know, rejected three times and then, and I said, that sounds really arrogant, doesn’t it? And Jo Grant said, she said, well, actually, no, not really. She said, you know, that we tend, that writers tend to have, they have to have that, that hunger and that, that real belief that you can do it, that you’ve just got to be –
Sarah: Determination.
Sharon: – yeah, determination, ‘cause actually to write three, having had all those ones published, it was very difficult for them to, to then reject me three times, and quite difficult, you know, but I just thought, no, it’s, I’m going to do this, and –
Sarah: I’m going to figure this out.
Sharon: – and, yeah, and then, and I did, and that’s what I’ve done ever since, and, you know, I’ve been approached by mainstream publishers, ‘cause I, you know, I, I like, you know, I like the sort of PR aspect of it. You know, I’ve been feted and taken to the Ivy and asked to, you know, write a mainstream book, but actually I love what I do, and, and for me, that’s just, you know, it’s a bit like in Macbeth, you know, ambition over vaulting itself. Why would I write something else when I love what I write?
Sarah: Yep!
Sharon: Yeah. And I can do it.
Sarah: And you’ve done it a hundred and –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – one times.
Sharon: Yep, yep. And people always want to, you know, how do you do it? You know, what, you know, how do you, you know, how do you do it time after time, you know, often men, usually men, often with stripy shirts and very red faces say, [condesplaining voice] oh, I suppose you just sort of jumble the, the paragraphs around and change the names, do you? Ho-ho-ho-ho!
Sarah: Oh, fuck that guy!
[Laughter]
Sharon: And –
Sarah: Bless his heart.
Sharon: But every book I write, that man and that woman are completely real to me –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – and also, so the interaction that I have with you is, is unique to us. We wouldn’t, no one else would, would have, be having the conversation we’re having, and the conversation that you have with the woman you meet down the hall, you know, with –
Sarah: It’s unique.
Sharon: – with – everything is unique, so, so, you know, there’s no problem – well, I mean, obviously it’s, you know, I’m, I’m downplaying it. There are ob-, obviously structural problems and problems that occur in books, because that’s all part of the writing process, but actually the, the whole thing about what they say to each other and what they do is different every time because they are different.
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: You know.
Sarah: That’s one of the things I actually really like about your writing. You have a lot of dialog.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: I love dialog –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and if I’m reading a book and it’s, like, a long line of a paragraph I’m like, eh… ooh, the part, the talking part! I’ll read that!
Sharon: But it’s funny, I was talking to someone about just that yesterday and in particular about sex and say, you know, like, readers like sex, and they like to read about sex because these books are about love, and sex is like the, you know, the physical manifestation of love. You know, the sex is big. He’s very big – no, sorry, that was said poorly.
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: And the thing, the thing is that I find it much more potent and erotic if, if you’re, if you’re hearing about it through the dialog. You know, we can all describe the, the, the physicality of what happens –
Sarah: The, the parts of where, which goes where can be described.
Sharon: – you know, and even if you try and make it original, you know, like, he, you know, he skimmed the palm of his hand, you know, over her peaking nipple or whatever, it’s still –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: – it’s still pretty much the same.
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: But what he would say to her would be –
Sarah: Is unique to those two people.
Sharon: Yes, yeah.
Sarah: And talking during sex is, is very intimate.
Sharon: Totally.
Sarah: It’s intimacy on top of intimacy.
Sharon: Absolutely.
Sarah: No pun intended.
Sharon: Yeah, no – [laughs] – well, quite, yeah.
Sarah: Yeah. [Laughs]
Sharon: Well, no, most of these books, ‘cause obviously they do much more than the missionary position. [Laughs]
Sarah: No, they get pretty funky, don’t they?
Sharon: I know, but, yeah, yeah, you’re absolutely right, and actually, you know, a, a sort of wordless coupling is, is the antithesis of intimate, and it’s, it’s not erotic, and it’s actually slightly creepy? You know, you just think of, of, you know, one of those –
Sarah: Well, it’s, it’s showing, not telling.
Sharon: Absolutely. Yes!
Sarah: Unless there’s a compelling reason for there to be no dialog at all –
Sharon: Well, I was going to say, yes –
Sarah: – it’s a whole lot of description.
Sharon: – unless, yes, he would do it to her but she wouldn’t speak to him. Do you know what I mean?
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: That sort of, yeah.
Sarah: But, but that establishes tension in existence.
Sharon: Ex-, exactly, yes, yeah.
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: Even though, yes, that sort of, you know, the mental tussle, you know, and again, I know it’s sort of, but these, you know, these things are universal, you know.
Sarah: They are.
Sharon: You know, the, the, the mind is against it, but the flesh is very weak, you know –
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: – and, and if, if –
Sarah: And we all want things that aren’t necessarily good for us.
Sharon: Absolutely!
Sarah: Including very large, potent, alpha, demanding men.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: Some of us, anyway.
Sharon: Yeah.
[Laughter]
Sarah: So, one of the things that’s interesting about Harlequin Presents is that just about every book takes place in so many different locations. Like, they’ll be in major cities, they’ll be in glamorous locations, they’ll just up and go somewhere else. I, I remember at one point reading one, and I think there were nine different locations, and, and they’re not long books. Like, there was a lot of jet travel and a lot of, a lot of going to Bone Town on the jet because you can when you have your own jet.
Sharon: Absolutely, yeah.
Sarah: Are there locations that you love to write about or that you’ve been and you loved to add to your books?
Sharon: Well, it’s funny, do you know, I’ve just – mph – actually, the Owen Sheers book, the book I’m reading at the moment –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: – it mentions, it’s got Las Vegas in it. Have you, have you read The Goldfinch?
Sarah: No, I have not.
Sharon: Oh, it’s just brilliant. It’s so brilliant. I mean, she’s, you know, I love Donna Tartt, but she, yeah, there’s a, there’s a scene in, in Nevada in it, and just, I mean, it’s, it’s so brilliant, and I went to RT, well, I saw you at, at RT –
Sarah: Yeah!
Sharon: – in Las Vegas. I absolutely –
Sarah: Yeah, I saw you in the elevator at least twice a day!
Sharon: That’s right. That’s right! And I –
Sarah: It was ridiculous! I’d get in the elevator, and there you were!
Sharon: I know! [Laughs] You probably thought I was stalking you.
Sarah: No, I just figured you lived there.
Sharon: Yeah, sadly. And – [laughs] – yeah, the, the elevator.
Sarah: Tiny, mirrored, near the bar.
Sharon: And Las Vegas features a lot in, in fiction, I’ve realized –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – and I’ve decided I definitely want to use it, but, so I will use Las Vegas. I mean, I love to write about Paris, and I love to write about New York, but I, yeah, actually, anywhere can be, has got its own kind of beauty –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – even, even sort of, even, you know, like, I mean, like, quite a bleak, I think, I think of somewhere like, I mean, I find Milan quite a funny sort of city, really. But of, of course it’s got its own kind of beauty, so I think the reason that they switch locations and go to new locations so much is because, because they can –
Sarah: Of course.
Sharon: – and because when you’re reading them you want to escape, literally.
Sarah: Oh, yes.
Sharon: You know, so, through your imagination you are literally escaping from, you know, ‘cause you are in, in this environment, and you’re going to all these wonderful places.
Sarah: Yep!
Sharon: Yep. And for me, one of the things that’s quite difficult is actually getting them from A to B, because I’ve re-, I’ve realized, you know, and you’ve, you’ve just said that, that there’s often, like, a lot of sex, you know, on the plane, in the back, in the back –
Sarah: ‘Cause you’re on, ‘cause you’re on the plane for, like, nine hours.
Sharon: – in the back of the car, so you just have to, because that’s, you know, that thing about time traveling, you know, it, it’s quite easy in a movie, isn’t it, to sort of –
Sarah: Oh, yeah.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Boom, boom, boom, they’re there.
Sharon: Yeah. What do they call it? There’s, oh, there’s a, there’s an expression that they call it in, in films. But it’s, you know, harder in, in a book without, again, sounding cheesy, like, [cheesy voice] December slipped into January, and before she knew it –
[Laughter]
Sharon: – the snows had melted and the first buds were beginning to –
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: – peer through the barren land.
Sarah: Blah, blah, blah, yeah.
Sharon: [Normal voice] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Sarah: Because the Presents have a lot of high, heightened emotion –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and emotional immediacy.
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: And, and a lot of the plots can move very quickly over a short period of time.
Sharon: Yes. Yeah.
Sarah: Especially if there’s forced proximity or arranged marriages –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – or things like that.
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: So you have to make things happen in a short time span sometimes.
Sharon: Well, it’s just that thing of going through all the, you know, I mean, like, people disagree. They say there’re, like, seven, seven plots for fiction, five, thirteen I’ve heard, so Taming of the Shrew, “Cinderella”, “Sleeping Beauty”, “Beauty and the Beast” –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: You know, forced proximity, I, which I would call snowbound cottage.
Sarah: I love snowbound stories –
Sharon: So do I!
Sarah: – they’re my favorite.
Sharon: Mm.
Sarah: It, they’re not dangerous.
Sharon: No.
Sarah: No one’s going to die.
Sharon: No.
Sarah: It’s not a hurricane; it’s not a tornado.
Sharon: No.
Sarah: No, no flooding; it’s just snow.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: You can’t go anywhere. If you’ve got food –
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: – you can, you can make your own heat! [Laughs]
Sharon: But of course, well, and it’s, interestingly, of course, with the snow comes that immense sort of silence. Yeah.
Sarah: Yes, it’s so – if, if, if the windows are partially covered –
Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: – it’s a – and even when it’s snowing, it’s quiet.
Sharon: Yes. I love that.
Sarah: Oh, me too.
Sharon: Yeah. [Sings] Snowww, snowww, snowww!
Sarah: [Laughs] I am, I am a big fan of, and then they get caught in a snowstorm. What?! Oh, I’m listening!
Sharon: Yeah, I know, I know.
Sarah: Oh, yes! I’m listening!
Sharon: Oh, and then, yeah, and then I love it when there’s sort of like, you know, the, the pregnant, gray, heavy clouds and then the first flutter of that snow, like, yeah –
Sarah: Yeah. And then it’s like [bursting noise], yes.
Sharon: – then it’s, like, spilling down, isn’t it? Yeah.
Sarah: We had a huge storm where, where I live, ‘cause I moved from New Jersey to Maryland in December. We had a huge storm in February, and we got, like, two and a half feet of snow, but where we live couldn’t deal with it, and the plowing took forever, and so we were trapped on our street for, like, three or four days, and it was glorious fun! Like, all the kids were sledding. There was – we live in a cul-de-sac – there was just this big pile of snow that the kids would dive into.
Sharon: Oh, lovely.
Sarah: We all traded hot chocolate and made sure –
Sharon: Oh, gorgeous!
Sarah: – all the kids had food, and it was just, it wasn’t even romantic, it was just, just, everyone has to stop.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: You can’t go anywhere.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: There’s nothing you can do. Just accept the way things are right now and make the best of what you have in front of you, and then when you put that into a romantic setting with two people who have to work their business out –
Sharon: Absolutely, yeah.
Sarah: – work their problems out, it’s very, very powerful.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: [Sniffs] Oh, snowstorms! [Laughs] Which I’m in the wrong location to be thinking about snow –
Sharon: I know!
Sarah: – since it’s, like, seventy and sunny here.
Sharon: I know, and the sunlight’s glinting off our amazing bay, and there’s a naval base nearby.
Sarah: Yep, there’re a lot of Navy ships –
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: – and sailboats. It’s really hard to get work done.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: It’s really pretty.
Sharon: It’s gorgeous.
Sarah: It’s very, very lovely. So I want to ask you about my fa-, my favorite of your books.
Sharon: Let me guess. What could that be, Sarah? [Laughs]
Sarah: Oh, well, I mention it in every workshop that I give about reviews, but The Playboy Sheikh’s Virgin Stable-Girl. I love that book.
Sharon: Yeah, I love that book too.
Sarah: I love, I love that Kaliq is a highly-sexed man and describes himself as such.
Sharon: Yes. I mean, he’s quite unashamed in his –
Sarah: Oh –
Sharon: – in his arrogance and his sexuality, but you see, you can’t, I can’t – [sings] Loving that man of mine –
[Laughter]
Sarah: Ooh!
Sharon: Do you know what I mean? He is lovable, isn’t he?
Sarah: Yep! He is what he is!
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: I love that book.
Sharon: I mean, funnily enough, when your review first came out, I hadn’t hear anything about it, someone rang me up to tell me about it, and then, you know, then I, I rang my editor, and then someone, you know, someone had been on the line from Canada, and –
[Laughter]
Sarah: God!
Sharon: – you caused quite a kerfuffle! I think ‘cause it was the amount of comments about it, and then –
Sarah: Oh, my God!
Sharon: – like, Karen Stalker, who was our editorial director, I mean, I don’t know if you knew her, she was, you know –
Sarah: I met her on Sunday!
Sharon: Oh, she’s wonderful –
Sarah: She came up to me after my presentation and was like, I was the editorial director of Presents when that review was written –
Sharon: Oh!
Sarah: – and I was like, oh, my gosh! [Laughs]
Sharon: I know, sh-, I, well, I’ve just, well, she’s such a smart cookie, but funnily enough, so I was on the phone to her, and I, and I, the bit about, the bit about where, basically, I remember she’d, her horrible father, the heroine’s horrible father had demanded his dinner, he, that she’d done him lentils and it had been, like, he’d thrown it on the floor and demanded that, oh, that, that’s right, demanded that her mother go out and buy a chicken from the market, and of course her mother had obviously stumbled and fallen and, and died on the way back, and then I put some like, by the time they found her, the vultures had taken away the chicken, and Karen’s just one –
Sarah: [Laughs]
Sharon: – fantastic comment was, I would have just left out the bit about the chicken.
[Laughter]
Sarah: But the trauma makes it so much more real!
Sharon: I know, but you see, I could, I mean, I can see that scene now.
Sarah: Of course!
Sharon: The poor mother under the heat of the sun and this horrible, abusive father, you know, and then –
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: – you know, get me my chicken, and then –
Sarah: And she will die in the pursuit of a chicken –
Sharon: Yes!
Sarah: – because that’s the life that she’s stuck living –
Sharon: Yes! Yes!
Sarah: – with this horrible human being.
Sharon: So actually, you know, there’s, I mean, I, I felt that there, you know, you know, I did feel that there were a lot of levels of that book, really. I liked it, yeah.
Sarah: There were. Well, there were, they had genuine problems.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: They had real issues, and, and he gets her out of an abusive situation and doesn’t realize that he himself is, in a lot of ways, abusive –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and has to redo his behavior.
Sharon: Abs-, absolutely, and, you know, and I take your point about, I know that the, kind of the line that was, you know, about him dismounting as he would –
Sarah: Remove himself from the body of a woman he just made love to!
Sharon: [Laughs] I know, and it –
Sarah: Oh, my God!
Sharon: – but I –
Sarah: I love it so much!
Sharon: I know! But actually, you, you, you can see that man thinking that!
Sarah: I could totally see that guy –
Sharon: You might not agree with it. You think, this is outrageous! But, and, and –
Sarah: Nope, that’s how he sees himself.
Sharon: – and of course the challenge, as a writer, is to make, is to make you want, is to make that, that couple be happy and to, and to work out their issues, and actually to have you rooting for them at the end?
Sarah: Oh, yes.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Oh, yes.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: The thing that affected me most in that book, I think, is that she was so out of her depth when she moves to, to England.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Everything’s green. She’s wearing traditional clothes.
Sharon: I know!
Sarah: Everyone’s telling her to change, and she’s like, well, no!
Sharon: But, and do you know the bit that got, that, that made me think, actually, was thinking what a girl like that, a young woman like that, imagine she’d been living in the desert with this, in this very basic existence, and then suddenly she gets on an aeroplane. Imagine how strange that would be.
Sarah: Right, and she lands in a place that’s green –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – and raining –
Sharon: Yes!
Sarah: – and more green all the – oh, yeah.
Sharon: Yeah. Yes! Like a different planet, really.
Sarah: Oh, yeah.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: What I love most, though, is that you sent me your next book, and you dedicated it to me, which –
Sharon: Yes, I did.
Sarah: Thank you!
Sharon: I did. Was –
Sarah: That was very touching.
Sharon: Was it Monarch of the Sands?
Sarah: Yes! It was –
Sharon: Yeah, it was, actually, no, it –
Sarah: – Monarch of the Sands, because she was an oil executive.
Sharon: – it, she was a, yeah. Her father had been, that’s right, her father had been an academic.
Sarah: I still have the copy you sent me that was a hardcover, but the cover is printed on the hardcover? We don’t get books like that in the States.
Sharon: Ahhh!
Sarah: I loved it.
Sharon: Yes. Yes, they are gorgeous, actually. They’re quite –
Sarah: They’re beautiful.
Sharon: – yeah, they’re iconic. I mean, yeah, I think I had one – no, you don’t get covers like that in the States, do you?
Sarah: Not unless you do order as special library edition, then you might see that, but the, there’s no dust jacket. Like, the cover’s printed onto the –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – hardcover binding.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: We don’t usually get, especially not for Mills & Boons –
Sharon: No.
Sarah: – ‘cause the Mills & Boons are little and paper.
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: I love that book.
Sharon: Oh, thank you! Yeah, I love it, and, and when I did a, a talk recently at the Romantic Times convention, someone had bought a copy with, for, for me to sign.
Sarah: [Squee!] I love it!
Sharon: Yeah, I love it.
Sarah: Well, recently Harlequin asked me, we’re going to do a sale, would you like to pick some books that you recommend? And I was like, uh, Playboy Sheikh must go on sale. Playboy Sheikh must be $1.99, ‘cause I will pimp the ever-living hell out of that book. I love to tell people about that book because there’s, okay, there’s a wonderful glorious enjoyment in reading a plot and a story in any of the subgenres of romance that’s just completely over the top.
Sharon: Yeah, larger than life. Yeah.
Sarah: Larger than life is really fun, and, you know, I, it’s really interesting because I’ve been, I’ve been writing about romance for long enough that I’ve seen a lot of big trends change, but I always love the larger than life, completely over the top, let’s just go for it types of plots.
Sharon: Yes, yes.
Sarah: And whether it’s a mystery or it’s a contemporary or it’s historical, I love that. Because it, it, it’s sort of like affectionate enthusiasm being communicated in the writing.
Sharon: Yes. And it, and it’s, yeah, and it’s –
Sarah: ‘Cause it shows that you love your job!
Sharon: Yeah, I do really love it, actually. Yeah. I love it.
Sarah: It’s a cool job, too.
Sharon: Yeah, I know. I mean, yeah, it, it’s funny because I went, you know, because I’m, I’m on English time, so I, you know, I woke up at the crack of dawn –
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: – I went to the gym, and then I went into the swimming pool, and I thought the swimming pool, I thought it was completely empty, except there’s my editor who’s swimming along.
Sarah: [Laughs] Who’s also wake.
Sharon: Yeah, and –
Sarah: ‘Cause you’re on British time.
Sharon: – and, you know, just swimming along, and I said, this is incredible. You know, we’re in this amazingly beautiful pool in San, San Diego, and it’s all, you know, it’s, we’re, we’re here because of romantic fiction, and you know, romantic fiction, it, it gets a very bad press. I don’t know about in America, but it certainly does in England.
Sarah: I re-, I learned about that this past weekend –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – how, how much, it’s even, it’s, I think, I mean, we get a lot of shaming of readers and dismissal of the genre, but enough press has started to take it seriously that it’s a little bit more immediate, the backlash of you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about if you rely on antiquated and outdated stereotypes for romance –
Sharon: Abs-, yeah.
Sarah: – but I got the sense from romantic novelists and the people that I talked to there that the, the shame is even greater against them, that they’re treated with a lot of dismissal for what they write.
Sharon: Well, yeah, and I mean, I think, you know, I think, I think shame is the wrong word, but I, yeah, I mean, yeah, people are very dismissive about it.
Sarah: Dismissive, yes, that’s a much better word.
Sharon: Dismissive – I mean –
Sarah: You should be a writer.
Sharon: Oh, thanks! Yeah, you know, that’s a pretty good idea.
Sarah: Yeah, maybe you could just bang one out, you know, couple of days –
Sharon: I know! Oh, that’s, that is what people do say of them –
Sarah: I know.
Sharon: – but actually there was a, there was an article the, just the other day saying that, you know, a marriage guidance service had blamed Mills & Boon –
Sarah: Of course.
Sharon: – for giving, you know, people unrealistic ideas about love and marriage, and I, you know, I actually did tweet, oh, here we go, that, that old problem! Women unable to differentiate between fact and fiction! You know, I mean, people –
Sarah: Come on!
Sharon: – people used to, you know, people watched TVs, drama and stuff, and it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t mean that they think they’re actually living it.
Sarah: Yes, but anything that tells women that their emotions and needs are valuable and validated –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and worthy –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – well, that’s, that’s just –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – we can’t have that!
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Women walking around in ownership of their own orgasms! Ohhh, no! Can’t have that either!
Sharon: I know. And, and actually, the truth of it is, is that, is that women do, you know, women do think about their emotional lives a lot.
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: I mean, particularly at a heightened time when they are on the verge of or in love with someone.
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: And it, you know, it dominates everything.
Sarah: Yep!
Sharon: It’s powerful.
Sarah: It’s very powerful. And it’s, it’s the, it’s the same sort of overwhelm, no matter what the setting of those characters, that, that – one of the things that I realized that was a, a fundamental difference between the books that are described as romantic novels in the UK and the romance novels in the United States is that in the States the romance, the emotions, they’re the main story. That’s the reason that the book exists –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – and so much of what is published that I saw being promoted and talked about at Romantic Novelists’ [Association], romance was one of a number of things that were happening in that book.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: It wasn’t the only thing in the book –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – it was one of a number of other plots that were all going to be resolved –
Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: – which is a different sort of book. Here, and especially with Presents, the emotional courtship is the reason that book is happening.
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: And that’s pretty powerful stuff.
Sharon: Absolutely!
Sarah: And of course it doesn’t get any respect because it’s, you know, girls and their feelings.
Sharon: Girls with feel-, you know, people, yeah, people think because, well, you know, a, a book, I think, I, I won’t read a book unless I find it compelling –
Sarah: Oh, me neither.
Sharon: – you know. Yeah, it’s just, you know, it has to, I don’t want, someone says, well, you have to, you have to really work through the first fifty pages, I’m sorry, you know, no –
Sarah: No! I’m not here for that! Sorry, I’ve got many other fifty pages –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – that I could be reading right now.
Sharon: And I think because Presents are easy to read that people think they’re very easy to write.
Sarah: Nope, nope –
Sharon: But they’re not.
Sarah: – nope, ‘cause I have read bad attempts at Presents –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and it is not the same thing.
Sharon: No, and in fact, in England they’ve got a, we had to teach this very respected political journalist how to write a romantic novel. Now he’s the most fantastic writer, and he’s, you know, lucid and eloquent, appears on TV and, you know, his writing is fantastic! But he couldn’t do it, and it, it, because it reads like pastiche.
Sarah: Yep! And, and if, writing down emotions genuinely is not easy to do.
Sharon: No, it’s not.
Sarah: I think people take that for granted.
Sharon: Yep. And, and, and, and also, you know, writing sex is not, writing sex and making it –
Sarah: It’s easy to do it badly! [Laughs]
Sharon: Yeah, it is! We have a bad sex award in England, did you know that? Yeah.
Sarah: I know you do. I –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – I look forward to it –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – every damn year –
[Laughter]
Sarah: – ‘cause it’s so bad!
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: Glorious!
Sharon: I mean, I’m surprised you haven’t got one in America. Maybe you should introduce one!
Sarah: Maybe I should!
Sharon: Good publicity! You know?
Sarah: You make a good point.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Oh, my God, the number of entries. Holy Moses. [Laughs]
Sharon: Yeah, well – in a manner of speaking.
Sarah: Yes!
[Laughter]
Sarah: I just walked right into that, didn’t I?
Sharon: Yes, you did!
Sarah: Wow! Oh! I am so proud!
[More laughter]
Sarah: So proud of me right now! That’s just, I have capped my day. I can just go to bed now.
[Still laughing]
Sarah: Should do a bad sex podcast. Woohoo!
Sharon: You should.
Sarah: So what romances that you love do you recommend to readers when people are asking for something to read? And do you have a favorite of your books that you’ve written? Or do you –
Sharon: I, I do like The Playboy Sheikh, and funnily enough, I do like Surrender to the Sheikh as well.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: I, yeah, I like, the one at the moment, Crowned for the Prince’s Heir, I, I do, I really like it, actually. It’s got, it’s got, it features some very heavily pregnant sex. But that’s not why I like it, but it, it’s just, I, I like her. I like him; he’s a bit arrogant. Yeah, it’s just, I, I enjoyed writing it. Who do I, who do I recommend? Well, Nora Roberts is brilliant.
Sarah: And there’s, I’ve noticed that, that there are so many different readers that have a, there’s a Nora Roberts for them –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – because she does so many different things. There’s, everyone has a different favorite, but there’s always a Nora Roberts novel, pretty much, that you can align to someone’s tastes.
Sharon: She, she wrote one, and I can’t remember what it’s called. It was about a woman who was being threatened, you know, and, and the, and, and she had a, she had a puppy in it. The, well, the guy had a, the guy had a puppy, and I mean, it was just, it was, it was everything, really. It was, yeah, it was just, the characterization was brilliant, and it just, yeah. It was superb. I mean, it sounds terrible to say that I don’t read romance, doesn’t it, really?
Sarah: No, it doesn’t. I talk to a lot of writers, and there’re a lot of writers who say that they don’t read a lot in the genre because it helps them with their writing –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – to not read too much of it –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – when, when they’re writing. And if you’re always writing, if you’re writing one book and another book –
Sharon: Absolutely.
Sarah: – and another book, you need to keep your style.
Sharon: Yep. And also, I, I want to read books, I want to read books of exquisite writing –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – that make, that make, that, that make me think, oh, I want to make my writing as good as it can be so that my aim is to write a, a book that’s really kind of, you know, full of power and honesty that, I’m not thinking, I’m writing a Presents. Do you know what I mean?
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: For me, I’m writing a powerful love story.
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: It happens to be published by Harlequin Presents –
Sharon: Yeah, yep.
Sarah: – but that’s, that is the venue through which you are creating your –
Sharon: Absolutely, yeah.
Sarah: – best writing that you can.
Sharon: Yeah, yep.
Sarah: That’s cool!
Sharon: Yeah, yeah. I mean – actually, someone’s just recommended a book to me which I can’t wait to, I love a word of mouth book.
Sarah: Oh, yeah, me too.
Sharon: You know? So, there was, I mean, a, a book –
Sarah: I’m just a big mouth, actually. It’s, I’m just the big word of mouth!
Sharon: I, I’m quite a big mouth as well!
Sarah: Yeah!
[Laughter]
Sharon: I, there was one I really absolutely loved that I told everyone to read called Apple Tree Yard. I don’t think you’ve got it over here.
Sarah: No, no!
Sharon: Louise Doughty. And, I mean, it’s, is, it’s not really a thriller. The characterization is just unbelievable. You know, all those subtle, those subtle layers of things that are, you know, she doesn’t even have to say but you know what’s happening and –
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: – and just how heartbreaking life can be, really. Again, it’s that, it’s someone making just the wrong decision, and then from that, so much splinters.
Sarah: Yes. And that one tiny, tiny decision has enormous evolving repercussions for the rest of the book.
Sharon: Yes! Yes! And actually, you know, a, a decision that someone can make can affect so many other lives, you know, and just, yeah.
Sarah: I don’t know what that roar is. I assume an airplane is taking off from somewhere?
Sharon: I think it might be a sort of manly, apparently there’s, there’re Navy SEALs out there.
Sarah: Ohhh, well, we are in the right place!
Sharon: What’s, what’s one of your favorite books?
Sarah: Of romance?
Sharon: Well, any book. I suppose maybe from romance.
Sarah: There are a couple books that I love, and I, and if I pick them up I start re-reading them –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and I can’t stop. One of them, one of the, one of the books that just makes my whole body go completely still is called Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ’s Childhood Pal. It is by Christopher La-, oh, Christopher Moore, and it is the story of one of Jesus Christ’s best friends, whose name is Biff, and they’re missing chapters of Jesus’s life in the Bible. Like, in the Bible, Jesus goes from, like, thirteen to twenty-something, and they’re missing those lives, and so the, the archangels resurrect Biff and stick him in a motel and say, we need you to write the story between here and here, and he’s like, what the hell’s going on? Okay, fine. And he tells the story of Christ between thirteen and twenty-six. From a religious and theological standpoint it’s amazing. It’s, I made my husband read it, and the both of us still talk about it, but what really works is that you’re reading about a larger-than-life character with so many interpretations of that one individual story –
Sharon: Sure. Yeah.
Sarah: – and you’re reading His, His sort of dumb best friend’s story of his extraordinary best friend, and the characters become very, very real. I love that book so much, ‘cause every time I read it I just have this sort of, wow. I can’t believe someone assembled the alphabet into this. This is amazing.
Sharon: Oh, that, yes. I –
Sarah: Like, how did you do that?
Sharon: Yeah. That’s an incredible feeling when you a read a book, isn’t it?
Sarah: Right. Like, it’s the same twenty-six letters –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – if you’re writing in English.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: You put them in an order that was amazing!
Sharon: I know. I know.
Sarah: How did you do that?
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: I also just have been reading recently a lot of Mary Balogh’s older Regencies, the Signet Regencies from the late ‘80s and early ‘90s that she has been republishing under new covers, and older Regencies, the Signet Regencies, are very different from the historical novels that are being published now, and they’re –
Sharon: In what way?
Sarah: There is a lot more focus on minute character development –
Sharon: Mm.
Sarah: – and dialogue and, and a lot of them take place in small towns that are, move into London and then move back to a small town, and there are characters moving in a very limited amount of, of, of ge-, geography. Like, they can’t move around easily! There’s, there’re horses and carriages –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – and walking –
Sharon: Yep.
Sarah: – and those were your options.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: And enormous amounts of emotional development happen in tiny, tiny scenes.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: Like you were saying, that it’s not on the page, but you can see what’s happening?
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: A lot of that happens in the older Regencies that I just, I love. I love it, because you can tell that the conversation on one level is very mundane, and beneath that there’s a whole bunch of tension.
Sharon: Do you know, well, I don’t read them, but it’s a very short period of time, that Regency period, so –
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: – what is it? What is the huge fascination with Regency?
Sarah: [Laughs] I don’t know! I know Kathe Robin from RT says we’ve been reading about the Regency, like, ten times longer than it actually existed?
Sharon: I know!
Sarah: I think that it is – ‘cause there’re more historicals being written in adjacent periods now and a lot more being written about Industrial Revolutionary periods and all of these developments and inventions, but I think with the Regency it was a culture just on the edge of enormous upheaval –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – with a very limited social rules, and there’s this whole, you know, the, there’s the element of the aristocracy and the elite and an astonishing amount of money and formality that, and rules that have to be observed, and there’s tension in that essential rule observation, because on one hand you have men and women who would like to be together, but they’re not allowed to be together –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – except that the women’s moms all want them to be together, but only in specific ways, and the men would like to be with the women, but not in a way that’s permanent –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and so they all want to be with each other –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and not be with each other in different layers, and that tension creates a lot of interesting stories.
Sharon: I wonder, do you think that rules made for, the, the more stringent rules made for a more contented society or, or –
Sarah: That’s a good question. I don’t know. I honestly don’t know, because a lot of those rules restricted women, maintained class lines that were very damaging to anyone who wasn’t in the upper class.
Sharon: Sure.
Sarah: There’re a lot of downsides to those rules, but I also think that, I have a lot of respect for etiquette –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and standards of behavior –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – because it allows you to treat other people with a, with a commonly understood respect.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: And, for example, I’ve just, I’ve been, I’ve been traveling through three different, well, the iron, the Isle of Man is a crown dependency, so it’s not technically its own country, but it’s kind of its own thing.
Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: So maybe three and a half, four countries, and the first thing I always make sure I know how to do in a place where I may not necessarily speak the language is know how to please and thank you and hello and goodbye, because I want to be respectful.
Sharon: I’m always the same, yeah.
Sarah: And if there’s a way from, that, that, if there’s a, a manner of being or a way of being respectful with how I present myself or how I interact with people –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – like, in some cultures shaking hands is too formal –
Sharon: Exactly, yeah.
Sarah: – and if you meet someone you give them kisses, or if you kiss somebody that’s unacceptable –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and so I want to make sure that I am being respectful within the, the societal rules that I have entered. I don’t expect them to be like me as an American. I want to be respectful of how they do their thing because I’m a visitor. I’m a guest!
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: So those rules, I think, are, I don’t think they’re, one set is more important or one set is less important, but I think it’s really interesting to see how different people interact on a social level and then the commonalities that exist beneath that.
Sharon: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sarah: You know what I mean?
Sharon: Yeah, oh, absolutely! Well, it’s, it’s going back to that thing we were saying right at the beginning. I mean, you know, people are just, you know, it’s, you know, in my books, basically it’s about a man and a, a woman, and he may have all the money in the world and, you know, she may be sort of whatever she is, but, you know, ultimately they, they feel the same things at all, and, and –
Sarah: Yes.
Sharon: – and I mean –
Sarah: They’re all a hot mess inside. [Laughs]
Sharon: Well, yeah, ‘cause human nature doesn’t change, does it?
Sarah: No, it doesn’t very much at all.
Sharon: You know?
Sarah: No matter how, what kind of societal rules you place on it.
Sharon: Which, of course, is, is one of the awful thing, is why, you know, why wars happen, because history repeats itself, because in a way –
Sarah: Constantly!
Sharon: – you know, it’s got to repeat itself, because –
Sarah: We haven’t learned.
Sharon: – it’s no good – well, no, because we –
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: – in a way, we can only learn through experience –
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: – our own experience.
Sarah: Yep.
Sharon: You know, otherwise, it, I mean, it, it shouldn’t be that way, but that’s how it is!
Sarah: It is. What do you think? Do you think rules are important as well?
Sharon: Ah, well, I don’t like the idea of, I know, I mean I, I don’t like the class, the rigidity of the class system.
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: I almost think, I almost think, I, I do think, you know, etiquette, I think, really equals respect, and I think almost in a way it’s gone, that freedom has gone, you know, well, you can’t say freedom’s gone too far, because, you know, freedom is a wonderful thing, but I think there should, I think there should be a little bit more respect in society, really.
Sarah: Mm-hmm.
Sharon: You know, just for, you know, for everyone. I mean, it’s funny, you were just describing the Regency thing, you know, this small period, poised, you know, on the brink of this, you know, momentous, I’m just thinking about what’s going on England right now. I mean, my God!
Sarah: Oh! Well, it was, it was very disorienting for me to be in England looking at all of the Brexit –
Sharon: Oh –
Sarah: – upheaval and, like –
Sharon: – it’s been so divisive.
Sarah: – and the whole government is like, yeah, we quit, and at the same time, America has had a hideous week.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: Truly hideous –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and I found myself trying to explain this to people who were asking me about it, and, you know, there’s no simple answer. It is a hideous problem.
Sharon: Mm.
Sarah: It’s bigger than me, I can’t fix it personally –
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: – and yet when I ask them about the problems that are happening in England, that’s the same response they – I, it’s bigger than me, I can’t fix it –
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: – and it affects me horribly –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and it’s terribly upsetting, and I feel powerless –
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: – and I don’t know what to do.
Sharon: I know. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s been seismic, actually.
Sarah: Oh, it’s been very seismic, and I felt very sad that my vacation was essentially 20% cheaper because the pound plummeted right before I left.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: And, and, I mean, that’s not a thing that I enjoy. I, I –
Sharon: Well, funnily, someone said to me, oh, did you buy all your dollars before the, before the Brexit, before the referendum, and I went, of course I didn’t, because I don’t live my life like that. Do you know what I mean? Just –
Sarah: No, no, I have no idea. Although at the same time, I, I went to the Isle of Man last week in between my husband, vacation with my husband and RNA, and I figured, you know, RNA was in Lancaster, I could go to the Isle of Man, just take the ferry over.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: It was, it was lovely, it was beautiful.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: I really enjoyed it, but we’re on the, I was on the ferry from Douglas going east back to England, and all of a sudden the, the ferry, which is this massive thing with cars and trucks and motorcycles inside it and all these people, we take a hard left to the north, and the captain says that we have been requested by Belfast Coast Guard to help identify a yacht that they have been searching for that has been in distress in the Irish Sea all night, and they haven’t been able to find it. And so we, this massive ferry, we pull up next to this teeny tiny little sail boat with two people inside, they have no motor, the sail tore, they had a radio, they didn’t have flares, they’d been out on the sea all the night, and we had to turn off this, the sta-, the boat had to turn off the stabilizers because it would have pushed the sailboat away from us, to keep us very even –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – so we start rocking more, but our job was to shelter this little tiny boat from the weather until Belfast could arrive with two lifeboats.
Sharon: Oh, wow!
Sarah: So there’s this teeny tiny little boat, and we’re this massive ferry, and we pull up right next to it, and our job is to just make sure that they are safe from the weather –
Sharon: Yeah, yeah.
Sarah: – and make sure that they are not in danger and there’re no medical problems, and so, you know, this boat from the Isle of Man is waiting for Ireland, and then there’s a helicopter from somewhere on the English coast circling to make sure there’s not an emergency that anyone needs to be extracted, so essentially, three very different groups of people are coming together in the middle of the ocean to save two people who made a mistake. Meanwhile, on every television on the boat is the Dallas shooting of police officers and the riots in the States, and the president is speaking, so on one hand I’m terribly emotional because this is, you know, this is my country.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: I care very much about it, and it’s kind of in a handbasket going to hell, and it’s, it’s hideous, and at the same time –
Sharon: You’re doing this –
Sarah: – we’re all just humans on a boat –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – helping each other, making sure – and, and the thing about the rule of the sea is that if there is a Mayday call, everyone has to respond.
Sharon: That’s wonderful, isn’t it? Yeah.
Sarah: You drop, and you go.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: And I was thinking, you know, if we could have more of that –
Sharon: Oh, I know!
Sarah: – you know, we could fix a lot of shit –
Sharon: I know.
Sarah: – if we’d all agree, okay, this is bad. Let’s all work together and make sure this doesn’t happen again.
Sharon: I know. I know!
Sarah: That would, that would be a good rule. I would like that rule. [Laughs]
Sharon: Yeah, I think we should campaign for that rule.
Sarah: I think that’s a rule. Behave on land like we’re all at sea.
Sharon: That’s, yeah, that’s very good. So, okay, so behave on land like we’re all at sea –
Sarah: Have a life preserver.
Sharon: Have a –
Sarah: If someone’s in help, if someone needs help, we all help.
Sharon: Yeah, definitely.
Sarah: You can’t ignore anyone in distress.
Sharon: And a bad sex award. [Laughs]
Sarah: That would also be an enormous asset! But I, I don’t know, bad sex at sea might, might be bad. We might not want to make them all at sea. [Laughs]
Sharon: And, and, actually it would be, it would be on a, yeah, on a rocking boat, wouldn’t it?
Sarah: That would not be so good.
Sharon: No.
Sarah: I don’t think that’s the bad, kind of bad sex we want! [Laughs]
Sharon: No. So, and it’s amazing, so they were all, they were alive, and they were well.
Sarah: Yep, they had lifeboat, they had life vests on.
Sharon: Ohhh!
Sarah: The ferry delivered water and snacks.
Sharon: That’s a lovely story, yeah.
Sarah: It was really impressive, and, and I remember saying to somebody, ‘cause we’re all, like, I was surprised the ferry wasn’t leaning –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – to the one side, ‘cause we were all watching.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: You know, I was like, we’re all just, you know, a handful of people. That’s just a handful of people.
Sharon: But, but of course, I bet, I bet just the action united you all anyway, the way that not, yeah.
Sarah: Yeah.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: I mean, we’re all watching the, these life – and the lifeboats were little compared to the ferry we were on –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and I’m like, there’s, like, you know, a handful of humans figuring this out right now –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – and they had to tow this all the way back to –
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: – to Belfast and – it just, it was amazing!
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: It was just amazing. Like, you only need a handful of people to do something really extraordinary.
Sharon: You see, sometimes I wonder if the, the fact that we’ve, you know, we’ve sort of divorced so much of our, our lives from, from the actual, you know, like, we, we buy our food in the supermarket, and it’s all –
Sarah: Packaged and pretty, yeah.
Sharon: -all packaged. A friend of mine, her daughter’s doing, she’s training to be a vet and, you know, and I said, oh, you know, have you wrung any chickens’ necks yet? She said, yeah, I had to do that yesterday, and I said, well, my mother grew up on a farm in Ireland. She had to do that. You know, there’s much more, you know, and, yeah –
Sarah: You’re touching the food that you’re making.
Sharon: Yeah, absolutely. You’re going out there, and of course, you know, it’s very difficult feeding, you know, feeding the planet, but, you know, I suppose when people were out digging their crops they weren’t sitting around saying, am I happy? Do you know what I mean?
Sarah: Mm-hmm. Nope.
Sharon: We, we, we’ve sort of, we have these very –
Sarah: We have time.
Sharon: – sanitized – yeah, we have time, and we’ve sort of sanitized our lives, really, haven’t we?
Sarah: Yep. And we have time because everything is much more automated.
Sharon: Yes.
Sarah: We have to think about what to do with our cognitive selves.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: We have to think about what to do.
Sharon: Yeah.
Sarah: It’s true. Thank you so much for doing this interview.
Sharon: It’s a pleasure. I’ve really enjoyed it.
[music]
Sarah: And that is all for this week’s episode. Thank you very much to Sharon Kendrick for hanging out with me at RWA and talking about books and publishing and her career. A hundred books plus is really kind of amazing, isn’t it? I, that’s a lot of books. Way to go!
If you’ve got questions or ideas or suggestions or you want to ask me a question, you can email us at [email protected]. I have an episode coming up of several interesting questions and email messages and voicemail messages. If you want to leave one of those, you can call 1-201-371-3272. Let us know what question you have or tell us about the book that turned you into a romance reader, ‘cause I have many of those, and they’re awesome, and I can’t wait to share them with you.
This podcast was brought to you by Burn Down the Night by M. O’Keefe. Set in the world of her bestselling Everything I Left Unsaid, Burn Down the Night follows a beautiful con woman who takes a bad-boy biker hostage, and their battle for control turns explosive. You can find Burn Down the Night wherever books are sold.
Our podcast transcript this week is brought to you by Happily Ever Afterlives, a two-in-one reissue of sexy Regency paranormal novellas by author Olivia Waite. In Hell and Hellion, Virginia Greening has always loved the dash and dazzle of London society, but when she’s jilted by the man she rescued from Hell, the pitying looks and backhanded whispers only leave her feeling more left out. Now she’s seeing demons lurking in the corner of every proper parlor. Her soul is off limits, but they don’t make for comfortable company, especially when incubus James Grieve strides naked onto the ballroom floor and asks her to dance. You can find Happily Ever Afterlives wherever eBooks are sold.
Our music is provided by Sassy Outwater. You can find her on Twitter @SassyOutwater. This is “Percolator” by Hanuman Collective from their album Pedal Horse, which you can find at Amazon or iTunes or wherever you buy your fine music.
Thank you again for joining me, for hanging out talking about romance novels once a week. If you’d like to take a look at our podcast Patreon, it’s at Patreon.com/SmartBitches. For a dollar a month, you can help me reach some major goals, but most of all, I am incredibly grateful that you are joining us each week to talk about romance novels, and on behalf of Sharon Kendrick and everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a great weekend!
[music to drink coffee to]
This podcast transcript was handcrafted with meticulous skill by Garlic Knitter. Many thanks.
Transcript Sponsor
The podcast transcript is brought to you by Happily Ever Afterlives, a 2-in-1 reissue of sexy Regency paranormal novellas by author Olivia Waite, who says, “They’re witty and Gothic but not too dark, and they offer the chance to learn just how Lucifer feels about violin music.”
DAMNED IF YOU DO: Lord Lambourne’s sexual prowess has unfortunately condemned him to Hell for lust. But sharp and sultry Idared EYE da red, the demoness assigned to punish him, is proving to be his greatest temptation yet. Too bad Lambourne’s mortal fiancée and her awful violin are on their way to rescue him.
HELL AND HELLION: Virginia Greening always loved the dash and dazzle of London society — but after being jilted by the man she rescued from Hell, the pitying looks and backhanded whispers only leave her feeling left out. Worse, since her return she’s started seeing demons lurking in the corners of every proper parlor. Her soul is off-limits to them, but they don’t make for comfortable company.
Then one night incubus James Grieve strides naked onto a ballroom floor and asks her to dance. Miss Greening has nothing to lose, so she and her incubus are soon indulging in any number of passionate sins and pleasurable vices. Until James develops a most inconvenient soul of his own…
I snagged The “Playboy Sheikh’s Virgin Stable-Girl” right after listening to the podcast and I’m so glad I did!
Sharon Kendrick’s love and delight for the Romance genre is infectious. It has been a few years since I picked up a Harlequin, and I’m so glad I indulged myself. I loved every second with this delightfully arrogant, over the top hero, and this quick learning heroine.
And, of course, you can’t talk about this book without talking about “The Line”. It was *amazing*. It is one of many laugh out loud moments that make this such a fun read. This is Romance with a Capital R!! I got a quick afternoon read and several belly laughs. Good fun!
This was a wonderful interview. Harlequin Presents are extremely satisfying reads for me–perhaps it’s the theme of redemption that seems to run through them as all those arrogant powerful heroes are humbled and then transformed by love. I must admit, though, that what really makes a Presents story for me is the grovel–I just love a really abject grovel from that arrogant hero before the happy ending. Thank you to Sharon Kendrick for writing so many fabulous stories! Sarah, I also loved your story about the ferry and your yearning for “sea rules” for all of life. I agree!
I’m pretty sure the Nora Roberts book that Sharon Kendrick mentioned is The Search. Just my two cents. 😉 Great interview!
Did I hear that right – does Sharon Kendrick know Jo Brand or do you think she was just referencing something Jo Brand has said?
Thanks for providing the transcript for this enjoyable interview!
I’m a huge–HUGE–fan of Lamb! This is the book that compelled me to read passages aloud to the coworker who had read aloud THAT VERY SAME PASSAGE only weeks prior. And neither of us complained about the repetition. That’s how good it is. Besides anything by Connie Willis, this is probably the book I have recommended to more people than any other in the past 15 years. I know Lutheran pastors and rabid atheists who adore this book. That’s quite a feat, frankly. Christopher Moore has never topped it, but that’s okay. I like most of his other work too.
And now I need to go find The Playboy Sheik’s Virgin Stable-Girl. Because, really, how can I resist?
CK – did I really say Jo Brand – as in the English comedian? Cos I actually meant Jo Grant who is Senior Executive Editor at HQN UK.
Shazza
ps. I do actually feel a special affinity with Ms Brand because she was also a psychiatric nurse who had a somewhat chequered path to find her eventual Career-She-Loved…