Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Hi I usually lurk but this issue gets to me.
I will admit that my never buy line is fairly easily crossed but since I do not as a rule visit author websites or celebrity sites in general it is not usually an issue. So far all of my problems have been related to what i think is authors acting unprofessionally towards their customers. And this is by no means a position I reserve for authors, I left Sprint after five years because the one time I had a problem the customer service people were rude and dismissive and I thought screw it, I can get better service elsewhere. The point is that when I see authors berating their customers it puts me in mind of poor customer service reps. Sure sometimes the customer is a douchebag but telling them that is still not a good idea.
Overall, most of the authors I have sworn off of were authors that i had planned to buy or didn’t really like anyway so it was no real loss but I know myself well enough to know that if I see an author acts the fool online it will color my perceptions and prevent me from losing myself in the book.
I apologize if this rambles. I haven’t been to bed yet and it’s like 7:00 eastern so my brain may be slightly fried ;)

Well I don’t think Miss Dawn has actually MET too many gay people, cause last I checked, the ones I know aren’t feeling at all guilty for their sexuality.

I think what peeves me the most are the assumptions she makes about something she obviously has little or no knowledge of. I feel a little sick to my stomach after clicking on the llink and reading that.

Definitely on my DO NOT BUY list.

Kathryn

Spambot ill14, how appropriate!

I have a fairly low flashpoint. My line is here====>.

This works out because my book interests are wide and varied. There are so many authors out there cranking out so many books that I have yet to hit a point where my TBR pile is empty, never mind think, “I’m so bored and there’s absolutely nothing else to do that I just HAS to read this person’s book, even though I already decided not to.”

I think that people’s discretionary spending is getting less as well, which also helps weed out what they’re willing to spend money on. If the throw-away dollars were plentiful, sure. But if all you can afford are a few books a month, why waste that money supporting someone you don’t particularly like?

::boggles::

There is just not… enough… coffee… in the world.

You know, everyone has their own opinions and everyone is (or should be) allowed to express them.  Just as I reserve my right to boggle and wonder what the hell someone is smoking to put forth such blatant falsehoods as fact.

But that doesn’t really address your question, does it?  I’ve only once had a personal Never-Buy line tripped:  and it was when another writer was incredibly rude to me, in public.  *shrug*  Is it fair?  Probably not. Is it rational?  Probably not.  But I can’t help it.  I can’t look at that author’s books without remembering the sting of how it felt to be so completely disregarded.

As far as how much an author should reveal of themselves to the public—well, that’s completely to them and I firmly believe that no one has the right to say how much is enough or not enough.  On my blog, I don’t get overtly political, but I think it’s safe to say that if you read it regularly, it’s not difficult to figure out where I stand.  On other issues, it’s very easy because I don’t exactly keep my mouth shut.  You’ll see me stating a lot of opinions and thing is, these are all things that in some form or another do find their way into my writing.  Maybe it’s because I write in the contemporary genre.

I wonder if authors who write in sci-fi or fantasy or historical find it easier to keep their “selves” hidden as it were?

My no buy line is crossed fairly easily as well. Generally, the thing that trips it is gay rights. I don’t have an issue with people saying “I don’t believe that homosexuality is right.” Whatever their religion has taught them is their personal business. I do get mighty pissed when they want to apply their personal religion and it’s “ideals” to those of us who are not of the same mindset or when they want to deny basic equal rights to others. If you think being gay is wrong, then don’t be gay but don’t tell other people they can’t. Or say things like children grow up to think they are gay because they were sexually assaulted. Umm, ok. That lady goes straight to the no-buy-ever list.

I also do not support organizations that deny entry to members based on sexuality. I haven’t been able to support the neighborhood Boy Scouts in years and it kills me, but I will not spend my hard earned money to fund an organization that excludes gay members. It’s certainly their right to set their membership standards, but it’s also my right to refuse to contribute to them in any fashion. My son will not join the Boy Scouts unless that policy changes. I have a list of all the major groups and companies that funded support for Prop 8 in California and I won’t do business with them, either.

It’s not just gay rights, though. Seeing the way Jennifer Crusie acted in the wake of the CE debacle turned me right off of her. Haven’t (and won’t) purchase anything by her ever. And it’s not some form of “watch me punish you, you evil harpy!” so much as I like to feel good about the things I purchase and I couldn’t feel good about buying a book by Crusie or this Dawn woman.

many readers online have vowed publicly to never spend another penny on an author whose opinion, even an opinion expressed thoughtfully, is too distasteful to them

Actually, the emphasis I placed in there is my tipping point.  Because thoughtfully to me includes politely, and with respect.  If those things are missing, I’ll drop into never again zone.  Luckily, this has never happened with an author I’ve been devoted to. 

Many come from broken or dysfunctional homes.

This is actually kind of hilarious to me.  My mother grew up in a two-parent, perfectly “normal” home. She’s gay.  I grew up in a fairly dysfunctional home and I’m hetero-married with three children, living in suburbia.  Ms. Dawn would brain-melt.

Hmm.  That doesn’t look like a very smart move to me: it’s basically going to alienate a lot of people.  It looks pretty unprofessional.  Then again, maybe alienation is what she’s aiming for.

I don’t exactly have a Never Buy line in terms of making a point about nevah evah supporting an author whose views disagree with mine because OMG if that bitch is gonna say stuff like that then I’m gonna tell everyone to nevah evah buy her books… because I’m not 13 any more.  I’m capable of separating an author from her work.

However, it’s unlikely that someone with an attitude like the author cited above is going to write a book I’ll enjoy.  And maybe she has a point about warning readers up front.  My attitude to readers who swear against me is similar: If you think my opinions or tastes are so abhorrent, you probably wouldn’t like my books anyway, so save us all some angst and don’t bother.

Spamfilter: enough13.

I don’t think you’ll get much debate here on this particular topic…because I’m assuming anyone who believes what this author believes (or anything close to it) won’t come posting here. That would be like walking into a minefield.

I will say this: some people raped as children DO take on the gay lifestyle. And I can totally understand the reasons why.

There are things that will put me off an author, but usually if the writer is good enough I’m willing to keep reading their books. I met one guy a few years ago who totally dismissed my compliment on his writing because I was serving wine at an event. I thought he was a jerk, but I still loved his books.  Good writing tends to trump authorial personality.

Maybe that’s just because the really vile things, things that racism, sexism and homophobia, tend to infiltrate the writing. Even if the author never comes out and says ‘gay people make me feel like barfing’ there’s usually something unpleasant woven through their story.

(Which is weird, because I’ve read stories with sexist or racist main characters and never thought to associate the belief with the author. Other stories - leave me feeling greasy.)

My no-way line is very easily tripped and the list of authors never to be bought again is inexorably getting longer.  Occasionally, I think I was better off before the internetz forced the moron behavior of some folks down my throat.

In some cases, I was disenchanted with the direction in which the author was taking in their writing anyway and it wasn’t a big loss (Coulter, Crusie), but in others I do occasionally get twinges of wanting to read again when their work is praised all over, but won’t because of the complete idiocy the author displayed in public (Deb Smith).

I totally agree with Melissa about the analogy she made about customer service.  In the end, authors want our money.  Maybe they think I’m an idiot for expressing my opinion, but it’s still they who want me to buy their books, so I feel they ought to at least be civil to their customers.

In the case of Brockmann’s Q&A on Barnes and Noble, I felt she was dismissive and disrespectful to all her readers.  Will the vast majority of readers care?  Probably not, but I do and that means, no green for her or her causes, which is a shame, because I am absolutely for gay rights and gay marriage, since I could care less what other people do in their bedrooms and I don’t think anybody should be treated as a second-class citizen because of it as long as it’s consensual and both parties are old enough to understand what they are doing.

So, another author joined the list.  :(

As for the other author mentioned.  I’d never heard of her.  She’s entitled to her opinion, but I think she’s wrong, uninformed and I wish she’d become enlightened.  I won’t buy her books now, but I wouldn’t have anyway most likely.

Whoa. 

I’d say I have a fairly high threshold for differences of opinion, as long as those differences are expressed thoughtfully.  But, oh, man, does that every stampede like a herd of crass and crude cattle over it.

The fact that I have a high tolerance doesn’t mean I won’t buy someone’s books if I disagree with her point of view, but it’s mostly because I won’t *like* the books.  There are lots of books I don’t buy because I won’t like them—whole subgenres full—so it’s not all about the author’s opinions!  I can’t think of a single author I’ve run into that I *was* reading and *stopped* reading when I can found out about a kerfluffle or opinion.

I won’t go see Tom Cruise movies, though.  I want him to stop getting work because the more work he gets the more he can go out on talk shows, etc, and spew his horrible beliefs about people with emotional and mental difficulties, and the more credibility people will give him.  So maybe my threshold isn’t all that high.

Piers Anthony and his repulsive “Firefly”
I had read scads of his stuff in my teens, and then drifted elsewhere.  A couple of years ago, I tried to read him again, and started with his Incarnations of of Immortality and was thoroughly offended by his chauvinistic, nasty, scathing comments about a not-very-fat character in “Bearing an Hourglass”

My brother-in-law recommended and then pushed and pushed and pushed “Firefly.”  I finally borrowed it to shut him up (SO glad I didn’t pay for it!).  The main story wasn’t horrid.  However, the *crap* Anthony wrote about the 4-year-old girl raping the “helpless” adult man was beyond belief.  It was too explicit and too detailed and too well-realized. IckIckIckIckIckIck I wanted to puke but the rage choked it off.

It was bad enough reading that part of the book, but the afterward/apologia in the paperback version left me feeling tainted in an entirely different way.  Waving the “It’s just fiction” banner doesn’t fly for me here.  If Anthony was fishing for reactions, then he is icky and manipulative, and here’s mine:

Not only will I never buy another Anthony book,  I will never again read anything with his name on it.

When an author writing fiction bludgeons me with a particular POV on an issue, where the exposition goes far beyond what’s necessary to advance the storyline, I usually stop reading that person.  That’s more because of the poor writing quality though than the issue. 

I will say I’d have a hard time reading a historical by a creationist author who has cave people co-existing with dinosaurs—and doesn’t label this as fantasy. 

I also won’t be reading Miss Dawn’s novels.  Ignorance is a real buzz-kill for me.  Life’s too short to waste my time that way.

There are a couple of “never-buy” authors for me, although neither are in the romance field, nor is my no buy from the quality of their writing.  First, an award winning [male] author - I read his books until he made a comment on a talk show basically to the effect that he wrote downward of what he was capable in order to be accessible to more readers.  My reaction then, and still, was “you arrorgant prick.”  The second never buy is totally based on prejudice and is embarrassing to me.  I hope to overcome it someday:  After learning that a certain author had participated in a murder when a teen, I could no longer enjoy his/her books.  And I had previously really liked them! It’s best *not* to know anything about the authors.  Books should be found under cabbage leaves - just like babies.

Suzanne Brockmann - I love her books, and I won’t deprive myself of them because she lost it on one message board once. I’ve been caught out more than once by making a remark I thought was clear and it turns out people took it another way, then got myself in worse because I tried to explain - but Brockmann’s opinions are more or less sound, I love her books and I’ll continue to buy them. As it happens, I don’t think she was accusing people who didn’t buy her book as being homophobes, but I bet she’s received some hate mail since “All Through The Night” came through (the first mainstream romance centred on a gay couple will do that).

Autumn Dawn - just checked my TBR, and I had one of her books on it. It’s gone in the “out” box. Someone with that kind of opinion is unlikely to write a book I’ll want to read. Because opinions seep through in books, even if you’re writing books set on another planet. It doesn’t usually bother me, but what she said is too extreme for my taste. I think everyone should make their own mind up about it.

That Bible quotation is often given as ‘proof’ that God condemns homosexuality. It doesn’t, not really Corinthians is one of the “history” books, which are more about the laws at the time of King David and thereabouts. “Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.” We’re all doomed! “Sodomites” are people who engage in anal sex, which isn’t entirely limited to men. Translating it as “homosexual” is anachronistic and misleading (imagine!) And later, St. Paul (also in the Bible!) says, “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (v11). No longer shun such people. Let their sin, or poverty, etc. be your opportunity to lead them to Christ.” So you decide which one you want.

There’s a handful of writers I flat out refuse to have anything to do with, and every last one of them was for acting so horribly unprofessional, it blew me away. My sister reviewed a book, once. It was a bad review, she hated the book-but it was also a solid review, and made fair and valid points. But, the author showed up with his friends and harassed her to death. They were ugly and vindictive and so trollish by the end it was astounding.  One of the trolls was an author I had to that point supported-but for no reason at all, she got involved and harassed my sister as well, all for one little review from a reader that is a pretty quiet voice in our neck of the woods.

The other one I despise is a flat out bully. She yells at her readers, she attempts to guilt them when they don’t buy as many of her books as she thinks, she terrorizes and harrasses and alienates, and refuses to listen to any opinion but her own. Our falling out, I tried to politely point out I was sick of the American-bashing in her journal. She defriended me, blocked me, and refused to give me a chance to say anything after that point.

I don’t care if writers have opinions, so long as they’re professional about them. But I loathe, despise, and detest a writer who thinks he is better than his readers and has no qualms treating them like crap.  My readers mean the world to me, in my little corner. I refuse to ever support a writer who acts like a nasty little princess.

My never buy line normally is very hard to get crossed. My list of will not buy is kinda short. I read what I like and very rarely go out of that comfort box. Which is good for me, being a newbie to the romance genre Ive got awhile to catch up. Though if I found out one of the authors I currently read, behaved like this, I would drop them like a hot potato and purge there books from my library. Most likely by donating them since no book showed be destroyed. This issue bothers me to know end. I only visit authors websites to see when there next book is coming out. I try not to go past there. For this reason.
After reading that expert from Miss Dawn. I am glad I dont read her.  I would never buy a book that she reviewed, wrote, commented on or contributed to.  I understand that she believes thats who she is. But what a limited narrow minded point of view and she shows it be voicing it to her readers and pontential readers.
Maybe the internet isnt for everyone. But honestly just because this women is a writer, dosent not exclude her from general costumer service as someone else mentioned.
Her readers are her costumers, and personally, I would see her butt fired if she pulled that with me any where else and encourage my friends and family to avoid her at all cost too. Im the type of person who will drive the extra few miles for gas just to avoid exxon/ mobile.  I havent bought from them in years. Hell I wont even stop to use there bathroom.

I guess when that personal line is crossed I go to extremes to aviod the person/ situation.

M
simply46

I appreciate a heads-up on authors who have opinions I don’t like, so in an odd way, thanks to this author for expressing herself. I now know what to avoid. Almost all of my books have at least one gay couple in them, usually as friends to the heroine, since I myself have many gay couples who I count as close friends. Write what you know, right?

I don’t mind if authors express themselves. They’re clearly telling people, “this is who I am. Avoid me if you don’t like it and come find me if you do.” She’ll appeal to a large segment of the reading population who may purchase a book only to find there are gay people in it (like mine—I don’t over-emphasize it, but they’re in there, by gum). This way her purchasers won’t be surprised…

Hmmm, having read both of the links, but none of either authors’ books, I would have to say that while I may be disinclined to buy Ms. Dawn’s books, Ms. Brockmann’s response was the one that really made me not want to buy her books.  In terms of politics, I absolutely agree with Brockmann and not at all with Dawn, so for me, I guess it’s not always about the idea expressed as it is about how it’s expressed. 

Brockmann’s response to the reader question seemed really antagonistic and patronizing, which I didn’t think was warranted by the question.  It seemed to me like she wasn’t even replying to the question itself, but to some imagined criticism.  So that even if I may have agreed with the content of her response, it was really the tone which made me not want to buy her books (and although I strongly disagreed with the content of Dawn’s explanation, it seemed like she really cared about answering the reader question honestly and not getting snippy).  Maybe Brockmann did feel attacked by the reader question, which colored her answer, but for me, it was incredibly off-putting.

Before reading this, I would have said that if an author can write, then that trumps personal issues I have with them.  Now I’m gonna have to say that only applies if I’ve already read something by them - if I’m turned off personally before I even get to your writing, then I won’t even give you a chance.  It might make me miss out on some good books, but if I can’t forget about it while reading, then I’m not going to get a lot of enjoyment out of the book, etc. anyway.

Usually my “never buy” authors are ones I’ve never read, who did something to turn me off before I ever picked up one of their books. And actually near the top of my list is an author who posted on this website a few years ago. I don’t remember exactly what she said, but it was roughly “hahaha, I don’t care that you as a reader don’t like my books, I’m still laughing all the way to the bank.” It was just so goddamn smug and distasteful that not only did I want to smack her, but I decided then and there I wasn’t going to ever spend money on one of her books. I don’t like to flounce though, so it wasn’t something I announced, just a personal decision.

I did consider checking one of her books out from the library as an alternative. But then I actually read one of her short stories in a book I bought for another author’s story, and I was so underwhelmed with her writing that I’ve never had any desire to read anything else by her.

I also have a couple authors on my never buy list, simply because their writing has gone so downhill that there’s no WAY I’m spending my hard earned money on their stuff.

I have a line and it usually takes a bit to cross it, depending on the issue. She has crossed it.

As for Suz Brockmann’s Q&A, things don’t always come across on the computer the way they were meant. I read it as, those who have previously read her books and refused to deal with All Thru the Night as being the ones who have the problem. But that is MY interpertation.

I don’t like it when someone starts throwing the bible at me- since it is not a book in my library, don’t expect me to think it is the be all and end all of the way I live my life. She would probably have a heart attack knowing that not only do I have a step-son who is gay, but *gasp* we go out to the movies and I hang with his friends and it’s me he tells his problems too.

And I have always accepted him the way he is. Which is the underlying factor here. She is incapable of accepting people for who they are unless the bible tells her it’s ok. That will then work it’s way into her writing and it’s not something I can read. So she has made my list. I have to check my tbr pile.

I realize my comment may anger some, but I am not an author, so it doesn’t bother me. It’s my opinion. And I don’t degenerate anyone who does read the bible or try to live by the precepts within it. It’s just not my thing. My poor Catholic husband doesn’t know what to do with an agnostic wife, atheist daughter, wiccan daughter, one son who married a woman of Jewish faith, and his gay son and other “normal” son. Ok, that is what we all refer to him as- and for us- it is a family joke. Because we are all different but don’t care. We have more arguments about political standings than we ever do about religion or beliefs.

My never-buy line is pretty clear:
I do not give money to people or groups that will use it to harm me.

Thus, no known Mormon writer will ever get a penny, after their tithes were used to cut the ring fingers off of thousands of married couples.

No known fundamentalist will get a penny.

No sexist, rapist, murder or other such.

@anonymous: there is no “gay lifestyle.” There are people who are gay. And they live all sorts of lives. Lumping me, my 16 year old daughter, the 30ish samba instructor who works for FedEx, the 50-something director of the Gay & Lesbian Center and Miss Trixie Thunderpussy (of the Memphis Thunderpussies) into the category “gay lifestyle” is ridiculous.  Also, if molestation/rape were the cause, 80% of women would be lesbians.

@Lynn
You’ve confused Chronicles (Old Testament) with Paul’s Letter to the Corinthians (New Testament). Paul is very clear that the sexually immoral (anything except het marriage) do not go to heaven. Which is only a problem if you follow that god.

One of my pseudo-jobs is as a music critic, specifically focused on country music, and this is sometimes an issue there, as well. As a pretty liberal even for a Canadian liberal, the political leanings of a lot of American Country singers are pretty far from mine. Not to mention there exists a few of them who have done some pretty offensive sorts of non-political things over the years. When I’m reviewing the music, I can’t let that matter, unless it’s visibly informing the music itself, and then I have to review the record in that context, but try to do it without the context of my personal reaction to their politics.

When it comes to my own reading, or my own music purchases, or my own other purchases, I generally follow a line of ‘if it shows up as part of the product or experience then I stay away’. So, if I lived in California, I wouldn’t be looking up whether the owners of my dry-cleaner gave money to the Yes on Prop8 campaign, but when my favorite Chinese BBQ place put up posters advertising a ‘no on gay marriage’ march in restaurant itself, I stopped going there. I’ve heard that Curves is run by a fundamentalist who puts a lot of money into anti-abortion campaigns, but in the individual outlets, the only campaigns that I see running are pink ribbon breast cancer causes (which I also have issues with, mind you, but it’s not quite the same thing). Similarly, just knowing that a writer was ignorant and bigoted about gay rights and gay marriage wouldn’t necessarily put me off of their books, but if those issues came up in the books, parroting the authors own ignorant views, I would stop reading them.

This may be a slightly head in the sand approach—it’s okay for my gym membership dollars to support anti-abortion campaigns so long as the fact that they’re doing so is not visibly shoved in my face, etc—but for me it’s the most workable line. I have little interest in, and less time for, looking up the moral positions of every company I do business with. Unless it’s in my face as part of the experience of using a product or service, I choose it ignore it. Chances are, if I did the research into a competing product, I would similarly find owners, board members, senior employees, etc, that offended me just as much.

My never buy list is pretty easily crossed—-I have little enough time or money to spend on books.  Why spend it on books that I won’t fully enjoy because the author’s behavior tainted my opinion of her writing.

As others have said above, it’s not the author’s opinion itself, but how the author states the opinion that bothers me.  I don’t know many authors’ political opinions but highly doubt that would stop me from buying their books. 

On the other hand, I agree with most of what Suzanne Brockmann has said, and she definitely crossed over into my never buy list.  She used to be one of my favorite authors, but lately I’ve had more and more problems with her books and was not enjoying them much.  I kept buying for two reasons:  (1) I wanted to find out what happened to characters I’d been reading about for years and (2) I wanted to support her because I respected her outspokenness regarding issues I really cared about.  I liked that she took what must have been a huge risk to her career and wrote the first mainstream book featuring a gay couple.  She put her money where her mouth is and wasn’t hesitant about expressing her feelings.

I think the reason I’m so angry about her comments now is because I did have so much respect for her in the past.  Her comments at B & N were dismissive and condescending.  IMO she was talking down to her readers.

Moreover, she deflected criticism with accusations of prejudice.  I have no idea if any of the posters were homophobic, but I didn’t see anyone expressing any homophobia in their posts at all.  For Brockmann to impute prejudice on these posters with no justification (unless the justification occurred somewhere else such as them sending her emails) crosses the line for me.  I think what makes me angriest here is that if she is receiving hate mail or if there was more going on than what was on the screen it’s getting swept under the rug because I will never believe Brockmann again.  It’s belittling to the causes Brockmann stands for to turn criticism of her writing into criticism of gay rights.

I’ve got to ditto a lot of what’s already been said here. I have put a few companies on my “Do Not Buy” list, but I’ve never put an author on it. Not exactly, anyway.

I’ve seen a few online to-dos which moved authors from my “Never Heard Of, Never Bought” list, to my “Never Gonna Bother To Buy” list. The reason is usually not so much moral outrage, as knowing that there’s so much better stuff out there to spend my money on. I’m sure Ms. Dawn is correct that that sort of stuff does go into her books. I have plenty of other sources for that sort of ignorant shit.  I’m not going to spend my precious book dollars on it. Same goes for some of the horrendous subjects other commenters have said some authors have written about. Thanks for the heads-up. Now I don’t have to waste my money on their crap either.

When it comes to romance novels, my preference is for “smart, funny, sexy.” Yes, that’s slightly redundant, because for me, smart is sexy. Stupid is never sexy. For that matter, stupid is never funny. That’s why I can’t imagine Crusie ever making it onto my “Do Not Buy” list. Certainly not for one off-the-cuff joke and a thoughtful follow-up. (See: funny and smart above.)

As for Brockmann, I didn’t click through to her online kerfuffle, so I can’t really comment specifically. I have been known to blow a mental gasket now and then when I care deeply about something. It sounds like she may have wandered in that direction. I’ll probably click through later and check it out.

So, of the three authors mentioned, one’s (still) on my “Auto-Buy” list, one’s (still) on my “Buy Sometimes” list and one moved from “Never Heard Of” to “Don’t Bother.” That’s about as deep as I can get on my first cup of coffee. Time for a refill.

My standard for my never-buy list seems to be different from everyone else’s: if the author consistently gets easily verifiable facts wrong, time after time, book after book, I’ll stop buying. It tells me that he/she does no research and does not respect either his work or his readers.  I once threw a book across the room because the writer had Germany invading Poland in December 1941. (No, it was not alternative history.)

The only author I’ve stopped buying for any other reason is Orson Scott Card.

I would have said that my line had more to do with disrespect than politics. I would have been wrong. I’ve never heard of Ms. Dawn, but can’t imagine reading anything of hers now. I recently decided not to buy anything else from one of my favorite authors. She has shown a blatant disrespect for her fans. Going so far as to say, that if you don’t like her books now, it’s because you’re reading them too fast.  She threw a little hissy fit on Center Stage that made me lose all respect for her. Being rude to the very fans that put her on the bestseller list, book after book.  Will she still hit the bestseller list, yes. Will her contract still get extended for an obscene amount of money, probably so. But I’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that I didn’t help line her coffers. I know how to hold a grudge, I haven’t spent a penny with Exxon since the Valdez incident, geez that makes me feel really old. :-)

This is why I don’t want to know much of anything about authors, particularly those who write books I enjoy.

I usually blink at these flounces because it takes a LOT for me to reach a point where I am unable to see past my impression of an author to the point where my reaction interferes with my reading that author’s book

Me too.

This may be a little off the subject but also an important point in getting to that never buy again stage.  About a year ago I joined the bbs of one of my all time fav authors.  She had just released a book that I was looking up on Barnes and Nobles and I read some really bad reviews.  I couldn’t imagine any loyal fan not loving any of her books!  Unfortunately, there were six or seven bad reviews from very loyal fans. 

When I mentioned this on my next visit to the site,  I was totally slammed by the guy in charge of the bbs and some of the members.  I wasn’t being mean or bitchy, I WAS CONCERNED!  Not one person mentioned the book.  The only thing they zeroed in on was MY mention of the bad reviews.  All I was looking for was a little reassurance that she was still our reigning queen of the dark…that the new book was yet another masterpiece!  Anyway, after that my whole perception of this author changed from Author Goddess of the Universe to eh, I wonder if she’s as pissy as her employees and fans.  I don’t RUN to the bookstores to get her newest releases anymore and I don’t go to her bbs.

I’ve only put 2 authors on my do not buy list. Terry Goodkind after reading an interview where he stated his books were not fantasy, as the magic followed rules. Most well written fantasy has the magic following rules (of course ones made up by the author. :) )As a long time fantasy reader I felt like he was talking down to me. I also no longer read Victoria Laurie after the whole mess of going after a reviewer. I really like both of the authors’ books, but I can’t read them anymore.
Jenny

There is exactly two people on my never buy list and neither of them write romance.  I tend to stay away from author’s personal opinions unless they spooge them all ove rthe internet.  So right now I’m limited to never reading Orson Scott Card and Dave Sim.

I tend to avoid writers who choose stupid pen names so even if I hadn’t been turned off by Autumn Dawn’s politics I would have been turned off by the fluffiness of her nom de’ plume.

I’ve seen a few online to-dos which moved authors from my “Never Heard Of, Never Bought” list, to my “Never Gonna Bother To Buy” list. The reason is usually not so much moral outrage, as knowing that there’s so much better stuff out there to spend my money on.

I’m right there with you Tara.
I’ve only really been hanging around these parts (“Romancelandia”- TM?)  of the internets for the last year or two, and have probably missed some if not most of the incidents involving authors bad behaviors. And in most of the ones I have seen, it’s really not turned me off entirely. Because most of them have happened with authors I’ve not read/heard of.

As for my “not-in-this-life/next-life- EVAH-gonna-buy” list?

J. Dailey- I used to like her books. But what she did to Ms. Roberts? Now I get PO’ed if I even SEE one of her books on the shelf.
C. Edwards- Read one of her books, didn’t care for it- but that wasn’t enough to put her on my “list”. After what went down last year? Sorry, your fighting with Dailey for first place on the list!

As it stands now, IMVHO, everyone else has a chance. Truth be told, I’ve actually found many more new authors via this ( and other) blogs, than have ticked me off.

My sentiments are similar to many of those listed here. I would find it extremely difficult to read an author whose views or attitude is offensive to me. And as someone said earlier, their prejudice would somehow creep into the writing, methinks, and let the cat out of the bag.

Talking straight from the writing/plot point of view, a character whom I cannot help but dislike (in a series) would put me off a writer. I read one book in the Scarpetta series by Patricia Cornwell (I think I have it right) and the prota was someone I just hated. I’m sure she has a million fans and that’s all right, but I couldn’t get past my prejudice for this character. So, I guess that makes me prejudiced too! Hmmm… Writing this post makes me realize that perhaps I should try another series of hers just to give her (and myself) a chance. Another author I dropped was Anne Rice when I came to the book Armand. The pedophilia in that one totally turned me off! And I couldn’t bear to read any more of hers. Then again, I read somewhere that she found Jesus and did a complete turnaround on all her views, so perhaps I quit at a fortunate time.

-anin

I just buy their books second-hand when I find out that an author is manifestly bat-shit crazy in the bad way (why, hello, there, Anne McCaffrey).  Not reading books I’d otherwise really enjoy seems a bit too much like cutting of my nose to spite my face.

@Lynn
You’ve confused Chronicles (Old Testament) with Paul’s Letter to the Corinthians (New Testament). Paul is very clear that the sexually immoral (anything except het marriage) do not go to heaven. Which is only a problem if you follow that god.

I didn’t confuse them, I just quoted two parts of the Bible (which does contain the New Testament and the Old Testament, at least mine does) which appear to contradict each other. There are lots and lots of these, because the bible was actually written over a couple of thousand years by people who had very different opinions and aims. But against fundamentalists, you can’t win, only waste a lot of your time.

But yes. If I read and love an author’s books it takes a lot to turn me away. If I’ve never read her then no harm, no foul, but I won’t bother. Good comment.

Ditto on the Piers Anthony boycott. He’s the only one on my “never read again” list. He lost me after And Eternity. A lot of railing against the statutory rape laws. There’s a big, giant hole in the wall from that one, and an empty bookshelf.

I think the reason I’m so angry about her comments now is because I did have so much respect for her in the past.  Her comments at B & N were dismissive and condescending.  IMO she was talking down to her readers.

My feelings exactly. I generally love Brockmann - her writing style, her stories, her heroes. She’s an auto-buy for me. Too, I fully support her opinions on homosexuality and gay rights, so there has never been an issue for me.

But now she’s using her personal crusade and message as a club to beat up on people. To imply that anyone who has any issue at all with any of her stories is most likely doing so only because they are homophobic is not only insulting to all of her readers, it’s a form of reverse-discrimination. To infer that readers are incapable of forming opinions based on anything other that whether or not they agree with her stance on homosexuality is pretty darned unprofessional.

So now I’m torn. I’m angry with her, but to deny myself of her stories is to cut off my nose to spite my face. Perhaps it’s a matter of going from buying the hardcover or e-book on immediate release to waiting in line to get a copy from the library. Or does that just make me a hypocrite?

Too many authors confuse their professional blogs with a personal blog.  I also get put off when people go on about politics, especially if I think their point of view are the regurgitated words of a far-wing ideologue, because people who do this can’t seem to express their own opinion without disparaging an opposing viewpoint.

Racist, sexist or gender-preference hate speech would all put an author on my “never” list.

There are too many books out there to support the careers of hateful people.

I don’t know if it’ll ever wear off, but I pretty much refuse to read Anne Rice. It’s mostly because all of her Internet WTF-ery and wank. Also, the only time I DID end up reading her was when one of my friends lent me the Beauty books, and I found them unsettling.

Nora Roberts’ also has a certain tendency to rub me the wrong way.

It’s not so much a would-not-buy thing, though… More of a wouldn’t-even-read-for-free.

It takes a lot for me to hit a “no buy” line as well… and when I do, it’s because of what you said about the politics/religious views/crazy ranting mania tainting what I’m reading/watching/etc.

I’ve hit that point with actors/actresses, where I can’t seem to separate their ridiculousness from the character they’re attempting to portray on the screen. (Although someone told me that Valkyrie would free me from my Tom Cruise moratorium.)

I think it’s why I try to stay away from celebrity news in general.

But it is a peeve of mine. Since my Junior year of high school when my English teacher stood up in front of the class on election day telling us how George H. W. would destroy the world, and how she wouldn’t want to live in a world without Dukakis as president (omg I’m sooo ooooold *headdesk*), I’ve had a pet peeve about people who use their power and authority to front their judgmental agenda… even when I agree with it.

People should be respectful and thoughtful whenever they share their opinions and views, no matter the forum (um, except when mocking reality television… because, seriously…). But really, I don’t care about the author’s background or belief system. If you want to use your storylines as metaphors for your religious beliefs… have at it. (Although I will say I was creeped out by a snarky Twilight review I read recently where someone pointed to all of the hidden Mormon subtext throughout the book. didn’t.want.to.know.)

But to come out after the fact and make statements for political or religious reasons just seems to lack integrity or courage or something… along the lines of Rowlings’ insistence that Dumbledore was gay, even though she never had the balls to include that in the books in the first place.

My never buy or read line is easily crossed.  However, I don’t have a problem if an author wants to support X political party or have a certain position about an issue.  That never makes me put an author on the Do not buy or read list.  But when an author acts like a bully towards his readers or other authors they automatically get dumped into the never buy list. 

Sometimes I haven’t read a single book about the author and because of their words or actions, they get listed on the never buy list.  Perhaps it’s unfair, but I can’t stand bullies.  I also (and I realize that this is a personal issue) have a tendency of shying away from buying authors that do not believe a readers opinion is important at all.  I understand that characters are your creation and you can do with them as you please.  I’m not going to argue about that issue, because I believe you are correct.  However, when I hear authors being rude or talking down to the readers, as someone said, I get disappointed. 

Look, I don’t want an author to write what I want.  Write your story the way you want it to be. But, if I or anyone else, don’t agree, then please don’t be rude.  There is no need to remind us that this are your characters and you do with them what you want; say your sad that they didn’t like it, and move on.  If you wish to discuss the issue, then great! I’m always fascinated by discussions where there are two different point of views.  But again don’t talk down to readers.  In fact a good discussion where the author respectfully defends his/her point of view, story or idea against someone that disagrees, has most times put that author in the Need To Buy list.  I may not like what you did in a book but I will totally support you if you are willing to defend your position in a dignify manner. 

Thankfully, I don’t have time to read authors blogs or follow them around.  So for me to put an author in the Do not buy list the issue has to reach big proportions or show up in a blog/site I follow.

You know what they say about opinions…we’ve all got them like…belly buttons.  I don’t care what an author’s opinion is on anything, but if they did something I found distastful or nasty (oh umm…like get caught on video kicking a homeless person, mocking handicapped people, etc - something that is repulsive & vile) then I would not only wash my hands of them, I let everyone I know in on what they did.  Expose their nasty behavior with the hopes they’d see it and feel ashamed and some remorse.  How they vote or what they believe will or won’t get them to heaven doesn’t make any difference to me.  It’s their opinion and everyone is entitled to an opinion- right or wrong, it’s just an opinion.

Too many authors confuse their professional blogs with a personal blog.

Why should there be a difference?  My blog is my blog, period.  Yes, there are things that I don’t put out there for public consumption, but that’s a personal choice—things that wouldn’t be out there for public consumption regardless.

I mean… I guess I don’t quite get the difference here.  As a writer, I use everything as fodder and a lot of it gets filtered through my blog.

Now, if it was a blog being hosted by a publisher or if I was being paid by a site like Entertainment Weekly or People.com to blog about being a writer, then that’s different.  That’s a “professional blog” and I’d make an effort to keep the topics centered around more professional topics.  Otherwise, though, I just don’t see a need to keep blogs separated into “Writer Barb” and “Person Barb.”  For one thing, it’s too easy to follow links or searches and there would be no real delineation between the two and secondly, writing isn’t just my job, it’s who I am, so from that standpoint, there’s very little line between professional and personal.

Of course, there are authors who manage to maintain separate blogs and personas or only blog as their characters or don’t feel the need to blog at all and that’s fine.  I’m just saying that for me, trying to maintain such a distinction would be a waste of time.

There is very little that will permanently turn me off of a writer, outside of that authors work that is. Cassie Edwards did… but I’ve never had the urge to read her books anyhow, so no love lost there. I’m not sure either Suzanne Brockmann or Autumn Dawn (someone please tell me that her nom de plume) did, though I have never read AD.

What does turn me off of a writer is if in their writing they take the time to beat me over the head with their own personal beliefs. If AD’s opinion comes through in her writing, it would be stuck in the freezer (ala Joey from Friends). I read a book recently where the Female Protagonist discovered she was pregnant, and the author used that to go on a page long pro-life spiel, complete with using “the baby’s rights now were more important that hers”. I couldn’t finish. I can’t make it through books that read like a bible study.

What is this woman smoking? She has to know that she’s royally screwing herself over when it comes to readership, because I’m going to argue here that the majority of romance novel readers are probably more open-minded about these things than not.

That being said, my Never-Buy line is somewhere around here. When an author’s beliefs are as ridiculous and repugnant to me as this, that’s when I draw the line. For some reason, extreme arrogance really turns me off, too - it makes me read the book in question much more critically, trying to see if it’s really worth all that hubris. Nine times out of ten, it may be good, but it’s not the gold standard of writing or the Next Great American Novel - and often it’s just popular, and not actually an example of decent writing (hey, Stephenie Meyer, what’s up?).

I have serious problems when several books by an author reinforce the same negative themes, too, and again I’m thinking of Twilight. When a popular series is telling young girls it’s totally fine and even romantic for their boyfriend to stalk them and control them, that kind of thing is NOT okay.

I hate to come in with what feels like a dissenting opinion. 

[Insert long boring anecdote here]

I was up in the remote kinda hills a while back, sitting on a front stoop talking to an old man who was about to have a delicate and difficult operation.  He had insisted, he said, that the work not be done by the Chief Surgeon of the Department.  He wanted it done by a Resident with much less experience.

“I didn’t want that Jew doctor,” he said.  “I want a good Bible-believing Christian doctor.”

He was unable to separate the work from the man doing it.

If I look at the author and say, “I won’t buy his book because I disagree with his politics,” or “I don’t like her religion,” or “He’s a creep,” or ‘She’s ... I dunnoh ... a bad mother or a shoplifter or overspends her credit cards or says stupid things on-line,”

then how am I different from somebody who won’t listen to music because the man who wrote it had bad morals or the wrong sexual orientation? 
From somebody who wants to throw out art because it’s painted by a man who deserted his kids? 
From somebody who won’t go to a movie—not because of its content—but because it was directed by a Muslim or a Jew or a Black or a Religious Fundamentalist or a Republican or a werewolf?

If I say a book or a work of art can be judged just by who wrote it and not what it says ... I’m using the same rational that led the Nazis to burn books by Jews. 

This is not company I necessarily feel comfortable in.

@job: I don’t think your intolerance-of-intolerance-is-hypocritical shtick is really believable. No one here says throw the books out and burn them. In fact, many people have said that
a. their decision to not buy an author are usually only affected when it comes to authors they’ve never read before.
b. their decisions are affected not because of the author’s beliefs by their personal attitude/behaviour/etc.

Secondly, I don’t think lives are being saved through books. ...Unless it’s a case of BEING IN YR A**, SAVING UR LIFE hahahahahaha, k sorry about that, I just had to weave it in somehow. (I was kidding there, to reiterate). Seriously speaking, art is an indulgence. Not a life saving procedure. So perhaps we need to get our scale of reference turned out right?

-anin

EDIT: I also wanted to add that art is something so personal, it seems impossible to experience it without feeling it. So how is it possible to not feel the creator of that, especially if you know something about that person, in the art? Taking the case of Roman Polanski, I have never watched any film of his. When I first heard of his case, I was like you saying, art is different and why should we judge a piece of art by the character of its creator, but when it came down to it, I just could not stop thinking that the movie was made by a suspected pedophile. It was just the way it turned out and so I stopped lying to myself and decided to join the company that you feel not very comfortable in. Maybe I am being hypocritical or prejudiced myself, but at least I am being honest to myself without hurting anyone else (except the authors and artists I find offensive by depriving them of money, which is not that great a hurt I think).

My “Never Buy Again” line is set pretty far out.  The only authors I absolutely won’t buy are Cassie Edwards (never bought her in the first place) and Janet Dailey (whose old, old categories I read years ago).  Because they plagiarised.

There are a lot of other authors that I used to read but just don’t care for any longer, who have also since either moved away from genre romance or disavowed their romance roots (Coulter, Delinsky, etc.).  I stopped reading them before being put off by their behavior, though.

I would put Brockmann in the category of, say, Linda Howard and J.R. Ward:  authors I once liked, and may read again in the future, but who are no longer auto-buys or even auto-borrows from the library.  That decision was made before seeing the post at B&N, which strikes me as unprofessional.

@job
I am not obligated, in the name of tolerance, to give money to people who will then use that money to harm me and mine. We are not required to tolerate those who wish to destroy us.

I use my money to support people, companies and causes who are beneficial to me and mine.

The money Orson Scott Card and Stephanie Meyers receive from their books is tithed to the Mormon church. The church spent millions of dollars from those tithes to pass Proposition 8, which harms my family.

Now, I’m not calling for a boycott of their books. I’m not insisting they should change faiths. I’m only saying they do not get my money because a portion of it will be used to hurt me. I’m tolerating their beliefs and their tithing. But I’m not required to condone or participate in it.

f I say a book or a work of art can be judged just by who wrote it and not what it says ... I’m using the same rational that led the Nazis to burn books by Jews.

Well, no.

Nazis burning books by Jews is persecution, based on racist prejudice.  Refusing to buy a book/ get medical treatment/ go to the local shop because I don’t like the race or religion or sexual orientation of the author/ doctor/ shop owner is likewise prejudice.

Refusing to buy a book/get medical treatment/ go to the local shop because the author is a convicted paedophile/ the doctor is rude and unkind/ the shop owner sells out-of-date stock isn’t prejudice at all—it’s a perfectly reasonable decision based on what the author/doctor/shop owner has done, not on who they are.

Also, refusing to buy a book or only getting it secondhand is nowhere near burning it.  Really.

Interesting - maybe I’m weird, but I’d never considered boycotting authors because they hold opinions I don’t like or are jerks.  I love books, and I rarely, rarely ever look to find out anything about the authors (usually just looking for release date for new books, or looking up old works I might have missed if I like their work).  I simply looked at whether I liked their work or not.

There are authors I won’t buy because I’ve read their stuff and just don’t care for it.  Perhaps it’s because their views permeate their writing, perhaps their words just don’t speak to me.  I doubt it, because there are plenty of admirable people whose views I agree with - but I just don’t like their writing.

More and more I find myself following authors on the web.  I find it both interesting and frustrating to read about them.  Some of them seem to have read too much of their own press and believe that fans will read whatever they write.  Some of them seem to think that they have ‘godlike’ status and so whatever they say will have no bearing on the book buying public.  Some of them are gracious and witty and entertaining, which makes me enjoy their books more.  This is interesting to me.  I don’t buy or not buy books based on the authors personal views of any subject or belief; I generally purchase books based on the quality of the writing.

Not too long ago I had a bit of a run-in with a well known author on a blog.  The discussion had to do with author photos on the back of books and I expressed my opinion about a certain author’s picture.  I was not the first person on the discussion to mention the photo, which is partly why I expressed my opinion about it.  The author - who is a regular poster on that site - chimed in with what I am sure she thought was a pithy comment about my comment, which prompted others to chime in and agree with the author.  First, I didn’t say anything of a personal nature against the author, just expressed my preference for a professional studio shot, rather than the one shown; the author on the other hand, made a not so veiled reference about me personally and I felt put down and made fun of, by both the author and her supporters.

I have a huge collection of this author’s work - previous to this she had been one of my favorite authors and a must read - since then she has had 2 books come out that I have not bothered to purchase.  I still want to read them, I just can’t seem to make myself spend the money on her. 

I guess for me, it does come down to the customer service argument.  Who am I to judge anyone’s opinions or beliefs?  Just because what you believe doesn’t match what I believe doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t read your books, if they are well-written and of a subject matter which I enjoy.  But when you start treating your readers as peons or assuming that because you have been lucky enough to have been published means you can behave in any manner you wish then I have an issue with your behavior.

Respect your readers and your readers will respect you.

This is a very interesting topic, and I don’t know if I’ve honestly ever hit that line yet with an author.  As someone above mentioned….

I won’t go see Tom Cruise movies, though.  I want him to stop getting work because the more work he gets the more he can go out on talk shows, etc, and spew his horrible beliefs about people with emotional and mental difficulties, and the more credibility people will give him.  So maybe my threshold isn’t all that high.

That’s exactly how I felt.  I will never see another movie of his ever.  But authors?  I honestly have never sought out their personal opinions on anything, so I’m totally ignorant on this topic, so reading through the comments and replies was very interesting.

I will never begrudge someone their opinion on a topic (no matter how ignorant I might feel it is as in the Autumn Dawn example).  However knowing the person is entitled to that opinion doesn’t mean I have to support it by supporting them by purchasing their work.  Just as I feel no obligation to buy paintings of someone who portrays an enjoyment of the mutiliation of women, I feel no need to support someone whose views so widely differ from mine that it offends me on a basic level.

Hate is THE line for me.  It’s actually what got me to vote in the election this year.  Someone starts preaching hate and intolerance and I’m the first person on the line saying, “Whoa!  Wait a minute!” 

When anyone—be it author, actor, singer, etc—uses their celebrity status as a platform to start presenting their beliefs about issues and/or to start preaching to the public about issues (be it rape, abortion, gay rights, religion, etc), I’m instantly turned off.  While I expect any artist to reflect or delve into issues in their writing (or whatever medium they work in) to explore thoughts, once that exploration turns into preaching?  I’m gone.

Just because you’re a celebrity doesn’t mean I care what you think nor that I’m that interested in hearing about it.  LOL.

Oh, and the Piers Anthony thing?  I had no flipping idea!  I used to read his Xanth series all the time but haven’t picked up a book by him in ages.  I do, however, think that authors do delve into touchy subjects at the risk of losing readership.  I did that in a story (written for online) that involved domestic abuse.  It was a dark, twisted event (as abuse often is) and many of the readers were disturbed by their reaction to those events.  Heck, I was disturbed writing it because I had NO idea where that came from.  *sigh*

But yeah.  When an author stops writing to tell a story and starts writing the story to pimp their political/social views to preach to me about how right they are?  I stop buying.

JT

young47

I very rarely put an author on the Never Buy list strictly because they express an opinion that offends me.  Lots of things really bug me and I simply can’t police the world.  I do hate the idea of my money supporting causes I hate, but it’s not possible to know what most people do after you pay them.  Focusing on authors just because I can would seem a little arbitrary to me. 

The thing that will put someone on my bad list is expressing a distasteful POV in a way that makes it difficult for me to not see offensive things in the author’s work.  I do not want to read a book and find myself seeing nasty, horrible things lurking behind the writing.  Both Orson Scott Card & Piers Anthony are in this category.  That causes me pain because I loved Ender’s Game when I first read it but I can no longer read Card’s work without wanting to hit something.

The hard part for me is that I’m an over analyzer by nature so it doesn’t take all that much to trip this reaction.  Because of that I tend to stay away from author websites that have much content not directly related to the books and I never join author-focused BBSs.  I feel like I make a deal with authors—-you don’t shove nasty things in my face and I won’t search out things that will make me mad at you. 

That’s were I am on the Brockmann controversy.  I love her books and don’t want to give them up.  I also tend to agree with her and I understand that she has probably received a lot of feedback that’s tough to take.  Anyone in the public eye needs to have a thick skin but when it comes right down to it the homophobes are talking about her son.  No one’s skin is thick enough for that.  I can see how that sort of thing would make a person touchy enough to see homophobia in some places where it may not necessarily exist. 

And lord knows I have no room to critique people’s inability to communicate effectively under stress.  The world is full of people who think I’m the devil because when I feel strongly about something I tend to get a little worked up.

I’ll wade into the minefield here.

I’ve never read Autumn Dawn’s books and don’t plan to now because I’m not inclined to patronize someone who speaks so ignorantly. It doesn’t seem to bode well for the content of her novels. As a Christian woman (try not to aim too well for the bulls-eye that just popped up on my chest) I am sadden by such statements as hers. My personal faith often clashes with my political stances where what I believe and what I think should be legal or not are often in contrast to each other. Swimming in a world where a pro-life opinion is automatically (and in my case, erroneously) assumed to go along with spiritual conviction is often very difficult. When someone spouts such ignorant opinions as Ms. Dawn did, I feel embarrassed to be even nominally associated with it.

I did, however, stop buying Sue Brockmann’s books for a while. She was a go to author for me (full price hardcover purchases) and I used to salivate for the next Team 16/Troubleshooter book. I’ve got a weak spot for those Alpha boys and my PB copies are well read indeed. But while I love the Jules character, I have no interest in reading intimately about his romantic arc. That’s just not what I read romance for and honestly, it makes me uncomfortable. I don’t think that’s homophobic; I think it’s personal preference, but y’all are welcomed to judge me so if you wish.

So I didn’t purchase the two or three books that intimately chronicled that arc, though I eventually checked them out of the library for the ancillary storylines to keep abreast of the world and flipped past the pages that made me uncomfortable. I also don’t read m/m fiction and prefer straight hetero romance, but I love the SB web site and the DA web site and often make my purchases based on their reviews. I’m not about to stop reading these sites b/c they sometimes feature titles I’m not so keen on. I just scan past the reviews of books I have no interest in be they m/m romances or fantasy titles. Just not my cup of tea.

I have purchased Brockmann’s newest DARK OF NIGHT and loved wrapping up the long arcs of those featured characters (though I think her men are increasingly being defanged, but that’s for another day). And while I really missed her world during my self-imposed break, I believe Sue B. had/has every right to write what she wants and highlight whatever she believes in. It’s her world; we’re just reading it. Likewise, I have every right not to participate in that world and not to spend my dollars on those titles. I don’t post a venomous rant raging “how could she do this?” because of course she should do whatever she feels necessary with her own creation. I just quietly make my own decision regarding it.

This Autumn Dawn person makes us all look bad by hard-lining what can be a complex issue for some people. It can, my friends, and to think otherwise is its own ignorance. We enter into community with each other not because we only share the same opinions or likes but also to explore dialogue and sometimes opposing views if only to cement our own convictions. But we must do this with respect and grace on both sides of the aisle and not with fundamental entrenchment and ignorance, otherwise we might as well just have stayed in the caves.

Still, I am glad to be back with the Troubleshooters.

Also, thanks Angelia for the Chronicles (OT history) and Corinthians (NT Letter from Paul) clear up. No bad juju towards Lynn; I just hate it when people get the words to the song wrong.

It strikes me that many of our “never buy” decisions seem to be tripped not by the subject matter or competence of an author’s novels, but by the way the authors communicate with fans - be it via messageboard, website, blog, and/or personally.

Food for thought.

After learning that a certain author had participated in a murder when a teen, I could no longer enjoy his/her books.

Why so circumspect? The background of the author in question is not a secret, although I admit it made me deeply uncomfortable, especially since she writes murder mysteries.

As for me…my DNR (do not read) list is made of up authors whose works are unreadable (Patricia Cornwell), have pissed me off due to racist comments in the text (Anne McCaffery), have pissed me off due to women falling in love with their rapists (this is specifically focused on Stephen R. Donaldson, b/c there doesn’t appear to be a reason for it in his fantasy novels. I do understand what classic romance novelists like Woodiwiss are doing with it, even if I choose not to read those novels and still find the concept offensive), or authors who are known plagiarists (Dailey, Edwards).

There are others I wouldn’t touch with a ten-foot pole for much of the same reasons listed here (Connie Mason and Nicole Jordan, for example). But I rarely avoid someone just b/c their religious or social beliefs are utterly opposed to my own. If it shows up in the text, I have a problem with it. But if the author’s beliefs are just that, and I don’t see them in the text, or if they somehow work in service of the text without seeming preachy…well, fine. I mean, Michael Crichton was a batshit crazy ultra-right-wing conspiracy theorist, but it worked for his books, even though I’m not a huge fan.

I really don’t care about the personal beliefs of the authors that are on my auto buy list. I only drop them when it’s something that I don’t agree with that bleeds over into their writing that is obviously the author try to speak their personal opinions through the character.

  The main reason I ever drop a writer from my list usually happens when they are writing a long series and somewhere around the fifth or sixth book if the series is really popular they seem to be listening more to their squeeing fanbase than actually working on the books.
 
  Most of the authors that people have mentioned I stopped reading a long time ago as my interests have changed or I found that I just couldn’t enjoy their stuff anymore.

It’s tricky for me. I will rarely scratch an author I really love off my list because of some personal opinion (to which they are entitled.) If that opinion colors their work, however, and I actually see it in the writing, that would be enough to make me think twice before buying again. Or, if that personal opinion is shoved down my throat as an absolute certainty (especially if it’s based on the person’s religious book of choice) they’ll most definitely lose me. But a reasonable, rational opinion that differs from my own just isn’t enough to make me give up on someone. (I’d have to swear off ever opening another one of my own father’s emails if that were the case, as we have such differing views on gay marriage, politics and other issues and frequently debate them.)

Unfortunately, there are times when an author can cross the line and not even realize it. I blog with dear friends, and try to be respectful of their views, which are, on some issues, vastly different than mine. But during the election, I (very carefully, I thought) put up a few posts about how important it was to register to vote, and to actually get out there and pull the lever. I was then told by one of my blogging buddies that she had heard criticism that I was bringing politics into our blog and obviously, because I was encouraging people to register right before the deadlines, I had an Obama agenda. Gee, and I thought I was just encouraging the democratic process.

It was those comments that made me decide to not put up a link to a video I was really excited about, that included a photograph of my daughters in D.C. on inauguration day. If it were a personal blog, I would have done it. As a professional one, shared with other authors, though, I decided not to.

And I’m with Barb on not buying someone who I find just rude and obnoxious in person. Like the romance author who very publicly, in my presence, opined, “I can’t believe I lost to this total nobody” after I beat her in the NRCA many years ago.

No royalties for you sweetie.

Signed—the total nobody.

When anyone—be it author, actor, singer, etc—uses their celebrity status as a platform to start presenting their beliefs about issues and/or to start preaching to the public about issues (be it rape, abortion, gay rights, religion, etc), I’m instantly turned off.

The problem with that argument—and we’ve talked about this here before—is that when any person of “celebrity” status says ANYTHING public, it can immediately be construed as “preaching.” So if Jo Rowling or Stephenie Meyer or Nora Roberts says “I don’t care for corn, and I wish they wouldn’t serve it in schools,” that person has somehow turned their fame into a platform. Basically, a famous person can’t venture any opinion without it becoming some kind of political statement, and being famous should not deprive you of your right to speak.

Personally? I like it when celebrities speak out. Why? B/c they have the power to do so—and they should use that power to make a difference. Maybe I don’t always agree with them (I think Toby Keith is a blowhard, for example), but I appreciate that they’re not just using their fame to spend money or something.

There are quite a few authors I won’t buy because of writing quality.  Some of them also have personal umm… “quirks” that also make me disinclined to buy their work, but that’s not the primary reason.

The few authors who inhabit my absolutely-will-never buy list are those who have plagiarized or attacked readers/reviewers (who was the one on Amazon- McGivilray?).  Oh, and Michael Crichton (who I used to really enjoy) inserted someone who gave him a negative review into a book as a child rapist.  Not cool.

Ohhh, I totally forgot to mention the Dresden files by Jim Butcher. His sexist character, who is so obviously channeling his own views (according to me at least) put me off the whole series. I couldn’t get past book1.

-anin

Ruth (or anyone else!): What did Jennifer Crusie do during the CE debacle that crossed the never-buy line?

Rachel, she basically said only mean girls would be going after a nice old lady like that and then she segued into how she herself had been guilty of being snarky but was now all reformed and would never do it again, and did it right away.  Gack!  Her tone was also very condescending like she thinks she’s somehow better than her readers.

Michael Crichton (who I used to really enjoy) inserted someone who gave him a negative review into a book as a child rapist.  Not cool.

Oh, I agree. I was thinking of his earlier books—before State of Fear.

Dude was *batshit*, I tell you. Absolutely insane.

Why is it that so many authors are that way? I’m thinking of Anne Rice now…(anotherDNR, but that’s more b/c her books just don’t appeal to me).

she basically said only mean girls would be going after a nice old lady like that and then she segued into how she herself had been guilty of being snarky

...that’s really not at all what she said.

I mean, the second part, yes. She said it. And she had horrifically bad timing on her “redemption from snark” post. But all she actually said HERE was “Did Cassie Edwards run over your dog?” Which was funny and I think meant to acknowledge that CE had been a bit of a whipping boy here. A lot of people were upset about that comment, and I think it might’ve been in poor taste, but she never actually defended CE. At all. I think she’s gotten a really bad rap for this—Mrs. Giggles said worse, but people didn’t really call her out.

Leslie, you should have posted the video!  I was the blogging buddy who told you about the email from a reader…not because I agreed with her, but because I was shocked that someone who think that encouraging people to vote possessed some sort of underlying agenda!  If it did, then damn.  I misunderstood the whole democratic process thing, too.

Other than plagiarists and known bat-shit crazy people who have attacked authors I am friends with or just authors I love, I don’t think I have a “will not buy” line.  Mostly because I forget about most crap unless it’s really personal to me.  This Autumn Dawn person is not someone I would have read anyway, but her opinion, which I disagree with, means nothing to me.

ksquard, I agree with a lot of what you said.  I do not read m/m or other homosexual fiction.  I have no desire to.  That, however, doesn’t make me homophobic anymore than if a gay person doesn’t who doesn’t want to read my books makes them heterophobic.  Sometimes, readers want to read to their own experience and I see nothing wrong with that.  I’m glad they have their own books to appeal to their personal love lives.  But I don’t mind gay characters in books nor do I mind if they get a secondary love story.  As long as I have my m/f lovestory, I’m good. :-)

Although I will say I was creeped out by a snarky Twilight review I read recently where someone pointed to all of the hidden Mormon subtext throughout the book. didn’t.want.to.know.

I’ve seen that before.

My do-not-buy line is when people take a jab at people from the South—especially people from my own state, Alabama. For this reason, I’m not buying anything by Tom Clancy.

I’ve been known to change the channel on a comedian I’ve been otherwise enjoying when he starts talking about how you can tell a woman from India is married by the jewel on her forehead, and, in a similar vein, a married woman in Alabama has a black eye. It absolutely infuriates me to hear that kind of stereotype enforced, because I’ve met people who assume that because I live in Alabama, I’m from a farming community of 20 people and related to 17 of them in more ways than one, and have amorous designs on my first cousin.

Or, to put it another way, a woman who sat next to me in college was from West Africa. Before moving down here, she lived in New Jersey. When she gave her friends the news that she would be moving to Alabama, her friends in New Jersey, bless their hearts, tried to worn her that ‘people in Alabama don’t like black people.’

It gets really fucking depressing to find out that your home, which isn’t a bad place to live, makes you a target for derision.

Also: Keyword—Science45. SCI-ENCE. KNOW-ING. Too may people think they know something, but what they know isn’t true.

I use my blog and website to promote my books.

I figure anything else would likely bore my readers.

Snarkhunter wrote:

The problem with that argument—and we’ve talked about this here before—is that when any person of “celebrity” status says ANYTHING public, it can immediately be construed as “preaching.” .... Basically, a famous person can’t venture any opinion without it becoming some kind of political statement, and being famous should not deprive you of your right to speak.

Personally? I like it when celebrities speak out. Why? B/c they have the power to do so—and they should use that power to make a difference. Maybe I don’t always agree with them (I think Toby Keith is a blowhard, for example), but I appreciate that they’re not just using their fame to spend money or something.

Ah, but for me there’s a difference before standing behind a cause or an issue and speaking out or sharing an opinion on a topic (because so many people do hold a celebrity up and find inspiration in them to, say, come forward about date rape because the actress or singer steps forward to say they were a victim of the same and experienced XYZ) vs. preaching and “abusing” (for lack of a better word) their status to bring those opinions forward. 

Celebrities do enjoy a wider opportunity to take those stands than most will ever have.  But for me there’s a line between appropriate places and venues to express those opinions and clear instances when its not.  The Tom Cruise is a perfect example.

For me there’s a clear difference between speaking out and getting involved in causes and “preaching”.  Shrug.

JT

Dude was *batshit*, I tell you. Absolutely insane.  Why is it that so many authors are that way?

Because in our society they can be.  We think artists are supposed to be eccentric so the BSC (batshit crazy) can be nuts and still be allowed to function.  We think people in other jobs are supposed to be “normal” so when they’re BSC they get locked up and/or put on serious meds.

I did. I printed out her entire blog post. I use it to raise my blood pressure when I’m feeling lazy. Or, barring that, to urge me to run another 5 minutes on the treadmill.

:) You’re right. I was thinking in the larger community. I felt like a relatively important person in the review community got away with being pretty nasty—but you guys did call her out for that.

I can’t always remember what was said then. Just the ones that stood out.

(I should try this “remember people who make you angry” thing to get me to exercise. I bet I could lose 10 pounds on Ann Coulter alone. It’s the first good use I’ve ever thought of for her.)

Huh.  I didn’t find Brockmann’s statements that dismissive of her fans.  I thought she was speaking very honestly and openly about her writing process, and that fan sentiment just doesn’t play that big a role in it. 

She didn’t say that ALL the criticism of DON was homophobic, she said that some surely was, and if you’d spent any time on her message board, you’d know that was true.  She received several hateful, personal messages that caused the board to be shut down for a while.

She spent a lot more time talking about the negative fan reaction to the Sam and Mary Lou arc than the Jules arc.  I personally didn’t like DON much, but that’s just because the characters weren’t among my favorites, not because I felt cheated or deceived in any way.

There are a few authors I refuse to buy because of their hateful views or behavior, but that’s usually reflected in their writing, so I wouldn’t read them anyway.  FWIW, there are FAR more writers that I started buying (whose works I used to just get from the library) because they were nice to me online or in person.

Ditto, Julie. I know you felt the same way I did about it, how crazy it was that someone considered encouraging voter registration an obvious ploy to support one political ideology over another! I was pretty shocked by it, and thought it served as a good illustration of how an author can be “offending” someone or “crossing lines” without having any idea whatsoever!

The other one I despise is a flat out bully. She yells at her readers, she attempts to guilt them when they don’t buy as many of her books as she thinks, she terrorizes and harrasses and alienates, and refuses to listen to any opinion but her own. Our falling out, I tried to politely point out I was sick of the American-bashing in her journal. She defriended me, blocked me, and refused to give me a chance to say anything after that point.
I don’t care if writers have opinions, so long as they’re professional about them. But I loathe, despise, and detest a writer who thinks he is better than his readers and has no qualms treating them like crap.  My readers mean the world to me, in my little corner. I refuse to ever support a writer who acts like a nasty little princess.

I think I know of the bitch you’re speaking of, and in all honesty, she’s the only person who writes my favorite genre (m/m) who I will not touch with a ten foot pole.

wrong27.  Well, this chick has been wrong about 27 ways to Sunday, and no one has had the balls to call her out on yet yet.

The other one I despise is a flat out bully. She yells at her readers, she attempts to guilt them when they don’t buy as many of her books as she thinks, she terrorizes and harrasses and alienates, and refuses to listen to any opinion but her own. Our falling out, I tried to politely point out I was sick of the American-bashing in her journal. She defriended me, blocked me, and refused to give me a chance to say anything after that point.

I don’t care if writers have opinions, so long as they’re professional about them. But I loathe, despise, and detest a writer who thinks he is better than his readers and has no qualms treating them like crap.  My readers mean the world to me, in my little corner. I refuse to ever support a writer who acts like a nasty little princess.

I think I know of the author you’re speaking of, and have had my share of traumatic experiences with her.
She’s the one author in my prefered genre (m/m) that I won’t touch with a ten foot pole.

Wow. Well I’ve written the author’s name down (from o.p.) and she’s going on my no-buy list for sure. This is a really interesting topic, and very good read this morning (all the comments).

I don’t visit author blogs, websites, face book, message boards, etc. hardly ever unless I’m cruising for new books to read or want to see what’s coming. So I’ve yet to have an author cross my ‘no buy’ list from their opinions/politics/etc. That said, if I knew an author was some form of evil (rapist, murder, child abuse…) or believed in something very serious and at a fanatical level that went against what I believe in (such as author mentioned in post) and I found out they’d be off my read list for sure.

I am anon. in my romance-related posts here, on my blog, etc. for this very reason: I work in an industry where my opinion on politics, let alone reading of romance and love of the sexy books could actually cost me money and turn people against me. Might sound dumb- but it’s true. Oh, it’s known I love ‘chick lit’ and ‘happy romantic books’ but not my steamier reads. Rather than be ‘known’ and loose income (in this economy who can afford that?) I choose to keep my mouth shut or go anon. As myself I share (on-line) as much as I would at a gathering with strangers present, and I believe that to be a good rule of thumb.

I really, really don’t want to reopen the plagiarism thing but I’ll offer my perspective on the Crusie’s comments.  I didn’t say anything about it at the time because, as someone said earlier, I’m not in jr high and I really try not to flounce in public.  However, privately I lost a lot of respect for her.  It didn’t move her to the Do Not Buy list, but it took a bit of the glow off my love for her older books.  (I’m not thrilled with the newer ones for reasons that have nothing do with this, but that’s a whole other topic.) 

Her comment about “what did she do, run over your dog?” was, to me, pretty offensive.  It implied that the Bitches were continuing to post about CE and people were continuing to talk about the situation because they were petty & mean.  The reality was that new posts were going up because new instances of plagiarism were being found in every single CE book. 

It was, and still is, difficult for me to understand why an author would value a veneer of Nice over respect for the integrity of people’s writing.

As for Mrs. Giggles, her stuff wasn’t directed at me so it doesn’t raise me blood pressure or inspire my work outs the way it does for Sarah but I do remember it and I changed my web surfing behavior in part because of it.

I’m not sure about the logic behind my very short Never Buy Again list. I’ve been off Crusie since the whole CE mess. I’ll probably buy her books again, just not yet. Another author took exception to requests that she state an opinion on the matter. I still buy her books, but I no longer participate in discussions on her blog. Again, that may change eventually.

The one person I used to buy books by, but don’t anticipate buying ever again is Laura Lee Guhrke. She pushed one of my personal buttons in an AAR discussion a few years ago. I think she started by posting a reply to an editorial on wallpaper history. Ms. Guhrke maintained that she didn’t understand use of the term and no amount of explanation seemed to help. I thought that was pretty disingenuous of her, considering wallpaper history was what she had been writing since her move to Avon, but whatever. The discussion then moved to epublishers and Ms. Guhrke dismissed them as inconsequential and alleged that they ‘pay their authors next to nothing.’

Jaid Black got into a fairly well-reasoned discussion with her on the matter. Ms. Black posted some round numbers, saying that the top tier of authors at EC made what amounted to $60,000 a year. I was impressed. That’s quit your day job money.

Guhrke’s response (copied from Karen Scott):

60K a year gross isn’t what I call good money. It’s respectable, but it’s not what I define as good. Again, it’s my personal opinion. As Karen said, by the time you pay agent fees, taxes and expenses, you’re taking home about $1500 a month if you’re lucky. That’s not what I call good money.

I’m really not sure why this irritated my so much, although I do know that $60,000 a year is quite a bit more money than I earn. Anyway, I haven’t bought a book of hers since. Every time I read a review or see a new title by her, all I can think is, ‘Nope. Laura Lee Guhrke doesn’t need my money.’

I didn’t read all of the B&N discussion, but I read the first few pages at the time - my take on it was that it was some of the readers who were behaving badly.
I think that’s the problem with on-line discussions, that they move from site to site, and depending which bit you happen to come across, that your understanding of the discussion is coloured by your familiarity with, and attitude towards, that poster. (I’m not talking about Brockmann’s response to that particular poster: just my impression of that discussion - as far as I read it - in general.)
As for the Never-Buy line - it’s permeable. Don’t understand it myself, but some people give up Brockmann with each new book. I think it’s a kind of inverted fandom.

Naturally, my biblically based beliefs include “one man, one woman”
relationships. ... Contrary to the propaganda, I believe that
homosexuality is a choice, like stealing, like drinking, like drugs.
Addictive, sure, but a choice, one that can be overcome.

ACK I was raised in a religion that taught if a boy was raped or even masterbated he’d “turn” gay. What bullshit. I’m shocked that in this day and age people still believe those theories have any merit whatsoever. 

  Evidently God/Jesus of the bible can mean whatever mankind wants him to say. That’s why there are over 34,000 versions of Christianity then add in all the sects of Judaism, Islam , Eastern religions, Wicca etc.  Pretty sucky odds of sticking your hand into a hat and drawing out the only one that will win the lottery and lead to salvation huh?

Whatever anyones belief is , how can a free country base human rights on religion?  Which religion? Ultimately ,why do so many pass judgement and devalue THIS life and dispose of people because they bet on the “next” life?

I had only been a very occasional visitor of Mrs. Giggles, but after her rant I haven’t been back. 

The reason, Crusie got more attention is that she’s a writer, who despite all claims to the contrary was and is endorsing CE and her plagiarism by vilifying the people who exposed it.  It’s especially galling from her, since not only is she a writer who could suffer the same fate as CE’s victims, she’s also an ex-academic, who has used that fact to improve her stature in the community or lend authority to her statements.

Snarkhunter, I did not say that she said these things here on SBTB, I was referring to her blog posts and her comments on those blog posts.

Wow, I didn’t mean to stir up the hornet’s nest again!  Thanks for the clarifications, and I’m sorry for dragging up the past!

Marianne,

there was a particular post towards the end of the Q&A that triggered my ‘oh, no she didn’t’ meter for Brockmann.

Originally, it was the ‘folks who don’t like DoN must be homophobes’ bit that made my jaw hang open, but I now think the beginning was really where she disqualified herself the most in my opinion.

I know that there’s been noise about DARK OF NIGHT, but from what I understand—without soiling myself too completely in the ugliness—that noise has been from just a relatively small group of disgruntled people—who seem to have more of a beef with me than with the book.

I just cannot find this opener in any way professional and the argument that writers are human, too, just doesn’t fly in this context.  She’s a purveyor of goods she wants the readers to buy.  Smart PR dictates that you don’t talk down or insult the potential customers.  I think she ‘soiled’ herself quite considerably with that particular post.

My “author I won’t buy” story is:  Several years ago legislators in The Big City in our state started talking about banning pit bull dogs after a summer during which several people had been maimed and a couple people were even killed by that breed of dog.  One author whose books and blog I had read off and on (and who doesn’t even live in this state) opined about the ban on her blog. She didn’t agree with it.  Ok, fine.  But then she went on and on and even let her “personal assistant” have some time on the blog to opine about it.  Their arguments boiled down to accusing every person in the STATE – not just every person in The Big City, but the entire freaking state – of being mega-awful animal haters.  By the end of the multiple postings over multiple days the author and assistant had worked themselves into a good lather about it all.  I don’t even live in The Big City yet here this author and her BFF are calling me an animal hater/killer because of the fact that I live in the same state as The Big City.  That was it for me.  It’s one thing to say, “Hey, here’s this issue I feel strongly about and here are my arguments for/against it.”  It’s a totally different thing to scream hysterically and accuse everyone in shouting distance of being a horrible evil person.  I wouldn’t have been able to read another one of her books if I’d tried because the whole time I would be sitting there thinking, “This is the author that hates me, or at least thinks I’m an idiot, because of the state I live in!”

We’ll have to agree to disagree on our interpretation of what Crusie said and wrote in several venues, on her own blog and elsewhere.

As I said and you pointed out in your original post, our respective meters of what’s over the line are set pretty differently.

I don’t really have a problem with the Brockmann comment because I interpret it quite differently the GrowlyCub did.  Face to face communication is tricky enough.  When you take away facial expression and tone of voice human beings are really disadvantaged. 

One a happier note—-I agree with an earlier poster who said that online interaction with authors has actually been far more positive than negative for me.  I’ve been inspired to search out books by several people whose online comments have been smart and funny and kind.  It’s far easier to remember the very negative things, but that’s just how the human brain is wired and it often doesn’t reflect reality.     

I don’t make New Year’s Resolutions but this year I am trying to be just a bit more focused on the good things.  It’s not in my nature to be Little Mary Sunshine, but I am trying to reward/reinforce the positive more often.

I don’t go out of my way to find out about authors’ personal lives, political views ethics or manners, but when they rub my face in it, I do notice.  Most of the time, the authors who by doing so cross my “never buy line” are ones whose books I have never read, and now I won’t, kthx.  That’s true in fantasy as well as romance.  Never read Terry Goodkind anyway, nor Cassie Edwards, nor most of the others on my list.

Orson Scott Card?  Yeah, that one hurt.  A lot.  But I just can’t pick up one of his books now, even beloved old favorites, without getting that slimy feeling.

Anne Perry?  Doesn’t really bother me.  She did her time, after all, and was a juvenile; I’m a fan of rehab over retribution in penal systems (giggle @ “penal”), and it seems to me that she’s a good example.

I do avoid contributing to certain companies (Domino’s, Smoking Loon come first to mind) when I know that the owners give large sums to social causes I don’t support.  When I know that, it’s because they’ve made big public announcements about it—they are obviously trying to attract certain people’s money, and those people are not me.  I figure that’s my choice.  If an author did that and I knew about it, he or she would go on my NBL.  But like I say, I don’t go looking for that sort of thing.

My never-buy line is fairly easy to cross because I read heavily in several genres—romance, YA, sci fi, fantasy, mystery, historical.  So when an author says something repulsive in the book or online, it’s pretty easy for me to take my time, attention, and money elsewhere. 

Still, when I won’t buy an author it’s not necessarily meant as a statement… some are just so obvious in pushing their politics in their books that it’s unpleasant and distracting and I avoid the author thereafter.  My latest experience of this was Star Bright by Catherine Anderson, a real throw-it-against-the-wall piece of poorly written drivel.  I couldn’t even finish… I lost it after the third rant about how NEUTERING YOUR PETS IS INHUMANE, OMG. 

I mean seriously, neutering????  I cannot deal with a debate over neutering in a romance novel. 

I did skip to the end to catch the scene where the villain takes drugs to make all his hair fall out so he can’t be identified by his DNA when he murders his ex-wife.

UM, WTF????  ... I do not need just72 more reasons not to finish this book, the anti-neutering thing was enough.

NoBuy Authors for me tend to behave badly, online or elsewhere.  I don’t take offense easily, and can usually see both sides to any story.  Well, except the anger/annoyance/hair pulling over the Sophia/Decker ‘ship.  I guess they didn’t make that much of an impression on me over the course of the books.

Anyway, there is one author in particular who I felt crossed a line on a site.  I can’t remember the site or the argument, just that the author told a commenter that they didn’t know what the f*ck they were talking about and to shut the f*ck up.  I had never even heard of her before then, but she is always the first author who pops into my head whenever anyone mentions Authors Behaving Badly.

My personal “do not buy” line consists of book content. If the writers “values” are so blatant that they preach throughout the book, and those “values” don’t mesh with my “happy, everyone’s equal because we are all in this together” utopia, then…well… they don’t get bought. Frankly, they can op-ed whatever on their web sites, it’s called freedom of speech here in the US of Amerika…well, so far it still is. And they can op-ed anything in their books too.

Two-somes, hetero relations, three-somes, homosexual relations, cross-species, etc. It’s all good. I read paranormals and you get “all” kinds there. Mostly, the writing sells it…or not.

Amy

As I get older, I get more and more picky about what books I buy. Generally I only buy things I KNOW I will enjoy, from authors I have enjoyed in the past. But occasionally I’ll pick up something new, as I think we all do.

What usually puts me over the ‘I will never buy anything by this author again ever’ line is bad writing, plotting and/or bad research. Back at the start of my romance reading, I read a book in which the hero got himself into a corner, plot-wise, and about 3/4 of the way through the book, a guardian angel - that had never been mentioned before - appeared and poofed him out of all his troubles. I heaved the book across the room and have never spent a penny on the author’s work again. These sorts of things annoy me.

Bad research, I can forgive, depending. If it’s a nitpicking detail, I get over it. If it’s a huge glaring error, and there has been more than one, bye-bye. Not reading you again.

I don’t read author web sites (except for Jenny Crusie ‘cause she makes me laugh like crazy, and think really hard). So when I hear about something from an author’s web site, that means it’s so bad it’s made the press. Which means I will usually quit buying. (When Laurell K Hamilton insulted all her fans, I’d have quit buying her stuff then. But I already had quit buying it for the previously mentioned sucky plotting issue.)

Ethics I am also rather blase about, but since I’m a writer myself (non-fiction), I will NOT donate my cash to the income of a plagiarist. Haven’t bought (or read) a Janet Daley novel since the whole mixup with Nora Roberts. (And I’d have quit reading/buying Cassie Edwards, but I’d already quit because of how offensive her treatment of Native Americans is.)

So that’s about it. Of course there’s also the ‘I just don’t like it’ issue, but I’d say that’s pretty common among all of us.

I usually put people on my do not buy list for writing bad books.  That’s pretty much the only qualification.

And while it’s not quite the question you asked, I would like to address the idea of rape making a person gay, which I hope most people do not believe.

I live in San Francisco, the self-proclaimed gayest city in the world.  I live with both a gay man and a lesbian.  I have lived with homosexuals for over eight years, even helping one friend go through her very painful coming out.  Every other weekend or so, we go to gay bars and dance to supposedly gay music.  And I’m not gay.  If someone can “catch the gay” I’d be so flaming, the ocean couldn’t put me out.  Yet I still like, even sleep with, men. 

When I was fifteen, I was nearly raped by someone who I thought was a friend.  I managed to fight my way out of his clutches (ladies, you CAN fight back) and get away somewhere safe.  And while the incident did profoundly affect my trust in the male species, it didn’t turn me towards women.  I brought up this point to someone making the raped-means-gay argument, and they implied that had I not fought off the person and actually been raped, I would have been gay.

They managed to make my save-them-last-out-of-a-burning-building list. And that one’s hella harder to make than my DNB list.

If you ever hear someone making that claim, please, feel free to give them my email.  plainjanelane at gmail dot com.  I’ll explain to them how the difference of about six second and a swift kick to the groin was not the deciding factor in my sexual preferences.

And sorry this is waxing poetic, but I would like to mention that romance novels actually played a big role in my eventually learning to trust men again.  That, however, is a subject for another time.

I had written a long-ass post but I suppose it’s somewhere in Electronic Hell. Here’s the SparkNotes version. My blog I write what I want to write. Do I offend people? Yep. But then, I’ve been offending people since I got kicked out of Sunday School for calling Saint Paul a sexist. Didn’t change my opinion then, won’t change my opinion now. I loathe religious extremists of any stripe and won’t knowingly have anything to do with them. People have warned me that my views probably impact my bottom line. That’s unfortunate, but I remain ‘unbought and unbossed’ to take Shirley Chisolm WAAAYY out of context. Presumably those authors who expressed their views understood as I do that people often speak with their pocketbook. I respect that, as I sure as hell do.

PlainJane, I’m so sorry about the assault and glad that you were able to save yourself.  And I totally hear you about how delusional people are if they think that bad experiences and hanging around w/gay people can turn you gay.  My continued fondness for the dudes is also proof.   

I have to add that I LOVE this:

They managed to make my save-them-last-out-of-a-burning-building list.

It sounds like something I would say.  I mean you can’t just abandon a person in a burning building because s/he’s an ass.  That would be wrong and I like to think of myself as being a good person.  But you can totally save the more deserving first.

Count me among the people who can distance themselves from an author’s personal views, so long as they don’t express them in a hateful, ignorant, or offensive manner.  I’m more likely to get turned off an author based on how he/she acts in public, or to me, when I meet him/her.  I come back from RT every year with a list of “Will buy/Will never buy” based on those factors alone.  One author I was on a panel with in Houston was so flat out dismissive and rude, rolled her eyes after every answer I gave and mocked me for laughs, yeah, I don’t care how great her books are, I will never buy them and, because I’m childish and spiteful, I tell everyone what a total d-bag she was.

I have to admit that I am careful about stuff I say on my blog as it pertains to certain topics… and anyone who has ever read my blog is probably making a jerking-off motion right now and going, “Yeah, right,” but really, I am more restrained on the internet than I am in real life.  Why?  Because I want to sell books.  There are things in this world that I find flat out freaking stupid, but I am aware that others might totally love them and they might be offended by my staunch anti-those-things attitude if I threw it out there.  Their offense might be so great that they no longer buy my books… and I love money more than I hate the things that piss me off, so I make that choice.

That said, I know I lost readers during this last election because of my vocal support of President Obama on my facebook and my blog.  But I felt strongly about the subject and, you know, oh well.  I figure that loss of those readers is the price I paid for speaking my mind about something that was important to me, and it was worth every cent I lost.

There are a lot of people in here talking about how writers respond to reviewers, or whatever, and that turning them off… well, how would you like it if someone strolled into your job and started talking shit about you?  That’s what happens to authors, at times, and everyone has a breaking point.  Sometimes, reviews cross over from “I didn’t like this work,” to “I didn’t like this work, and it means the author is a bad person.”  That Laurielikesbooks woman called me a sadist when my first book came out.  It was the worst book of the year, it was terrible, okay, lady, I get that you didn’t like it.  You are totally free to not like it.  You are not free to call me a sadist and imply that I’m some kind of sick freak because you couldn’t handle the gore in my books.  Criticize my work all you want, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to play nice so that I don’t offend readers if someone comes after me personally.

When Anne Rice lashed out at her fans, I was like, “Ugh, puh-leeze,” but then I put myself in her shoes.  I do the same thing when Laurel Hamilton goes off about her negative readers.  With both those authors, the readers aren’t just criticizing the work.  They’re making judgments against the authors personally, talking about their religion, or their marriage situation.  That’s ridiculous, and they have every right to lash out at the reviews that cross that line.

They’re making judgments against the authors personally, talking about their religion, or their marriage situation.  That’s ridiculous, and they have every right to lash out at the reviews that cross that line.

The thing is that both Rice & Hamilton made those things very front & center and used them in their work.  They were happy to have it out there when it was perceived as a net positive, but got mad when people started to criticize. 

I have HUGE personal space issues and I think fighting dirty really sucks so I normally have no patience with personal attacks.  Calling you a sadist was over the line.  I do think things get a little trickier when the personal stuff becomes a big part of the work.

:::sighs::::

Bigotry makes black-footed ferrets cry.

Suze Brockmann is a terrific writer, and she can write whatever she wants.

I have several gay friends, of both genders.

I do NOT want to know what they do behind closed doors, any more than they want to know what I do behind closed doors.

And I don’t want to read about what Brockmann’s gay characters are doing to each other in their intimate moments.

It trips my “ick” meter, plain and simple.

Does that make me a homophobe? No, no more than having my “ick” meter tripped by watching just a couple of minutes of a hard-core porn (hetero) film that someone I knew brought over once makes me a heterophobe.

There are some things I would really rather not know, or read about. And that is my opinion and my opinion alone. Your mileage may vary.

As a certified Rape Crisis counselor, I just have to say that if being raped made you gay, there’d be a hell of a lot more gay people in the world.
My never-buy line is hard to cross, but if I feel like I’m being lectured to instead of just being offered a good story, it annoys me no matter what the “message.”

I’ve seen a writer who has a very, very good way of handling bad reviews.

He doesn’t read any reviews. He writes things, he mails them off to magazines, and sometimes they send him a letter with a note of acceptance and a check.

The next day, he writes more. As long as he gets paid, he figures he’s getting the last laugh. (Hah! Pun! That’s the name of a column he often writes!)

http://www.mcmanusbooks.com/biography/dear_bio.html

I’m more likely to get turned off an author based on how he/she acts in public, or to me, when I meet him/her. 

I agree with this statement. At National last year I had the misfortune to run into an author whom will forever be in my DO NOT BUY list and when the opportunity arises, I share my experience with others because this young woman was a complete asshat. I won’t go into details here but I will gladly share with anyone privately because the golden rule at National is you never know who is listening or who is friends with who so watch your mouth and be on your best behavior.

Reading this, I realized that I really don’t have, at this point, a do-not-buy author.  I never have bought Janet Dailey or Cassie Edwards, and just kinda gloss by their books on the shelf, but I hadn’t bought any before I learned about their plagiarism, so I don’t think that counts.

I will say that I am a conservative Christian, and there was a time when it seemed like every time I turned around, someone was calling for a boycott on someone or something.  I know it makes people feel good to think they’re sticking it to a TV network, etc;, but when I really think about it, I don’t believe that I have that much control.  For example, if a guy stops me on the street and says, “hey, I need a few bucks so I can buy some crack,” well, I’m not going to help him out.  But the money I spend at the grocery store will contribute to the paychecks of plenty of men and women who are doing things that they shouldn’t, or that I don’t agree with.  To avoid accidentally supporting anyone who is doing anything immoral, I would pretty much have to be completely self-sufficient….and then, am I all that holy myself?  Nah, not the last time I checked.  Now, a boycott targeting a specific local business, say, a restaurant, for a specific practice like discrimination, would be useful.  But other than that, I think it just makes people feel good to make that personal stand w/ their wallets. 

Personally, I would probably quit buying an author who was a pedophile.  That would really bother me and I would not be able to dismiss it.  I would quit buying a non-fiction author who purposely lied in his/her books.  I don’t buy people like Ann Coulter who seem to be just plain mean.  I haven’t read Patricia Cornwell in awhile because I wasn’t that interested in Scarpetta’s personal life, which seemed to be usurping the mystery; also, I have a pet peeve about too many coincidences/personal involvement in crime thrillers, and her later Scarpetta books had a lot of that.  I haven’t read Anne Perry for awhile, for no particular reason, but I admit that I think about that case every time I see her books.  It always makes me wonder how she deals with that event, mentally and emotionally—the impact it has had on her life.  What would it be like?  I feel bad, because I am sure that is not the first thing she wants people to associate with her name and work.

Oh—OJ Simpson is a do-not-buy.  For obvious reasons.

But for the most part, I believe that most of us are basically decent, don’t have it all figured out, and are trying to muddle through as best we can.  We have things that we’re screwing up, but still have something of value to offer, whether it’s a novel, or advice, or a skill.  Maybe that’s a little wishy-washy, but it keeps me sane!

@job:

There’s a salient difference between a doctor and an author.  That difference is that a doctor’s religious/political beliefs do not normally encompass religion.  On some small occasions, they interact.  I do care about a doctor’s religion if he comes from a religion that for instance, doesn’t believe in surgery, and he lets that effect his performance.  I do care about a psychologist’s beliefs if he thinks that gay people are mentally disturbed and need treatment to be helped.  Caring about a doctor’s beliefs in those circumstances makes sense; caring about them when they couldn’t make a damned bit of difference is irrational.

There’s more occasion to care about authors’ beliefs, especially with authors who write books that end with feminine fulfillment.  If an author believes women are best staying at home and losing careers, her HEA might reflect that, with the heroine giving up her day job in favor of family and making casseroles—something I would find unsatisfying.  You can’t help but put some of your beliefs in your books.  Even if you don’t try to club readers over the head with your beliefs, what you think is “happy” is somewhat determined by how you view the world.

Putting authors on the non-buy list because you think their political/religious beliefs, as expressed, mean you won’t be able to enjoy their books is just smart use of resources.  Can it become creepy?  Yes, if you’re creepy about it—anything taken to the extreme sounds like a terrible idea.  But the solution is to not be extreme about it, not to avoid the behavior all together.

The other thing that differentiates exercising personal choice from, say, Nazi book-burning, is that censorship is something governments do, not something individuals do.  Sometimes, governments should not do things—like say which books can and can’t be purchased—precisely BECAUSE that decision should be left to individuals.

Think about it this way—it is ultra-creepy when a government says, “You can vote for whoever you want, as long as it’s for Mugabe.”  Even if that statement is not backed up by force, it’s just wrong for a government to put its finger on the scales that way.  But it is perfectly fine—acceptable—if an individual endorses Barack Obama.  (Or John McCain, y’know.)

It’s not censorship if I don’t buy a book.  It’s not book burning if I decide to avoid certain authors.  It’s a personal choice—and just because I exercise that choice personally does not mean I support the government’s right to exercise that choice for all society.

Warning: long post.

It is a great relief to me that most books I purchase or borrow from the library are well-written. What puts me off a book or an author is bad craft and shoddy art.
I don’t expect authors to be nice or gregarious or politic. That said, it is *always* nice to be greeted with politeness and grace - by any creative person. Moodiness is no longer romantic or mysterious - it’s rude.

Never buy thresholds:
-Bad editing
-Consistently bad writing (technical)
-Dumb plots
-Inconsistent characterization
-Inconsistent world-building
-Mis-use of period jargon
-Overall lack of verisimilitude
-Plagiarism
-Purple prose
-Rampant use of anachronism in a historical (that would make a great prize title)
-Sloppy fact checking
-Sloppy history
-TA heroes (Too Alpha)
-TSTL heroines

Re Brockmann:
I read through a lot of the B&N interchange and am not bothered at all by Ms. Brockman’s response to hopefloats. Hopefloats seems to have predicated her questions on the concept that authors write to respond to reader rather than to serve the story that’s in their heads. Do

She used hopefloat’s four paragraph question to respond to what sounds like a hailstorm of criticism and wacko anger surrounding her new book. There are four sentences in hopefloat’s 4P question that, I think, set Ms. Brockmann off:

How do you keep a pulse on what your readers are thinking?  Are you concerned that relying on your own BB, which by nature has more fans than critics, your opportunity to hear/learn/understand valid criticism from your readers is limited?

and

IMO, the biggest criticism of DON and this story arc is many readers feel they were shown one thing and then told something very different….How much weight should your readers give to what is shown vs. what is told when reading your books?

It is my opinion that Ms. Brockmann responded to hopefloats’ question with great frankness. I detected frustration and some temper in her response to hopefloats, but no flippancy. So Ms. Brockmann was frustrated by the premise, so what. This won’t turn me off of reading her books.

Also, did you all notice the length of her responses to each question? She spent a lot of time on those answers. She obviously took time to respond to each question. That level of care signals to me that she does care about her readership.

Not, of course, to imply that there are a lot of authors I avoid.  Just that where I set my personal line—or where someone else sets their line—is also a matter of personal choice, and I don’t think it’s even vaguely Nazi-like to say “I won’t buy X because I don’t like what she said about Y.”

@CrankyBeach: I’m sorry, but I have to ask you to clarify about the ick factor. Do you really think gay romance is at the same level as HARD CORE het porn? Doesn’t that sound a bit… biased?

-anin

Argh, too many posts to read, not enough time to read them.

Usually, people with politics I disagree with don’t write books I enjoy reading, or at least don’t allow their politics to pollute their writing.  What moves an author off my reading list is that their books become unenjoyable.

Piers Anthony fell off my preferred-author list in the 1980’s, when his Author’s Notes become longer than the novels they were attached to.  Self-righteous egotist.  I stopped reading LKH not because she went crazy, but because her books started to suck.  I still enjoy her early ones, and I would probably still enjoy Anthony’s early ones if I felt like going back to re-read them.

When an author posts something I disagree with, I can get past it and still enjoy a well-written novel.

When an author does something that reveals the author to be so freaking credulous and STUPID, as Dawn’s note about rape causing people to become gay, their dumbness taints everything they’ve written.  Or, when they’ve done something so foul I can’t get past it (no specific examples come to mind, but if I found out a favourite author was a child molester, I wouldn’t be able to read anything by him or her again, without CHILD MOLESTER shouting out from every page).

After I know that an author believes something so completely idiotic (for example, that Christians in North America are discriminated against), then nothing they say or write is at all believable.  I can’t trust anything they say, and even if they write something interesting, articulate, and well, I dismiss it, because it was written by somebody too dumb to be published.

I have to say that if I think about it there are few things that an author could say that might make me not want to read him/her.  I don’t know what that says about me but it is true. Then again, if the book were just so good, you see, I’m not sure.  If it were Ann Colter, no problem, I know I"m not buying anything by her but if it is fiction, that is different. Interesting topic

I just buy their books second-hand when I find out that an author is manifestly bat-shit crazy in the bad way (why, hello, there, Anne McCaffrey).

I admit to being boggled here; my “home genre” is SF/fantasy, and whereas I’m more or less familiar with many of the kerfuffles and figures of controversy in the genre (Anthony and Card being two of the most prominent, as others have noted above), I don’t think I’ve ever run across a sentiment of this kind concerning Anne McCaffrey.  Ms. Manna, I’d be very interested in the context of the above comment. 

In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that a friend of mine is a very long-standing friend of Ms. McCaffrey’s; through that connection I’ve met the author herself, briefly, on one occasion.  This does not predispose me to judge new information one way or the other; I’d just like to know what the story is that’s given rise to the above conclusion.

I don’t want to read about what Brockmann’s gay characters are doing to each other in their intimate moments.

It trips my “ick” meter, plain and simple.

Do you read steamy hetero love scenes?  Because if you enjoy those, and gay love scenes ick you out, then that would make me question your statement that you’re not homophobic.

Why compare gay love scenes in a romance to hetero porn videos?  Why not compare them to hetero loves scenes in a romance?

If I say a book or a work of art can be judged just by who wrote it and not what it says ... I’m using the same rational that led the Nazis to burn books by Jews.—Job

Nazis burning books by Jews is persecution, based on racist prejudice.  Refusing to buy a book/ get medical treatment/ go to the local shop because I don’t like the race or religion or sexual orientation of the author/ doctor/ shop owner is likewise prejudice.—Imogen Howson

This line really bothers me because while I personally think it is foolish not to read/patronize/etc someone who is really good at what they do because of their race, religion, gender, creed or sexual orientation, I also think it is a big leap from one individual making that choice to a whole regime enforcing brutal oppression, censorship and genocide.  They are both prejudice and certainly individual prejudice may feed into greater regime prejudice, but maybe it’s just me, I hate when an individual’s choice to be a narrow-minded, prejudiced biggot gets conflated with a regime that killed millions of people. To me, it belittles the horrors of the latter. 

People make all sorts of narrow-minded choices as individuals. Lucky us, they have the freedom to do so in this country. I also have the freedom to call them bigots. Once my government starts burning books of a particular group that’s a whole different kettle of fish.

That said, and my apologies if I was heavy handed, my do-not buy line is pretty hard to cross.  Plagiarism definitely crosses that line. I will not buy or read the work of plagiarists. 

I have some issues that I personally do not want supported by my dollars. For those authors I enjoy but disagree with, I buy second hand or borrow from the library; for businesses, I simply boycott. 

The real kicker for me is bad writing though—or bad acting, bad customer service etc etc—and if I read 2 books in a row from an author that are no longer at my minimum standard for writing, if I am spending a lot of time diagramming their sentences instead of enjoying the story, well, I stop buying. 

Of course, if an authors opinions are really contrary to mine, I am unlikely to buy their work as I will not enjoy their subject matter or their handling of the stories. For example: the Left Behind books ... I’ll never read these because they are so contrary to my world view that I simply wouldn’t enjoy the story.  I suspect that the work of Autumn Dawn falls into this category for me too since she says her views inform her work.  But for me, these examples are more in the category of “do not try” rather than “do no buy.”

Some parts of this discussion could be seriously depressing for me as a writer…the no. of people who says their “don’t buy” buttons are easily tripped, for example.  Argh!  How do I know I’m not doing that right now? And those who say they’re anti-Brockman or anti-Cruisie.  I haven’t seen those 2 authors’ comments and don’t plan to look them up, but Jenny’s always been funny, edgy, opinionated, and brilliant, and I can certainly imagine her saying something that bugged people.  But enough to stop reading her books?  Oh, my.

Sometimes the Internet reminds me of jr. high, with lots of “he said, she said, omg, she didn’t?”—when the truth is she really didn’t, but the quote was taken out of context, or was garbled, or whatever, but it’s to late now—everyone’s choosing sides.

But the original question is whether we ever refuse to buy an author because of her views.  My answer is: yes, of course.  And no, of course not.

For the yes part of the answer: how could an authors’ views not matter?  The way we see the world—our viewpoints—informs what we write, how we write it, what our characters are like. 

For the no part of my answer:  it would be dull, dull, dull to read only writers who agree with me about everything.  I get to spend plenty of time in my own head; I read (in part) to see what it’s like in other people’s worlds.

But an author like Dawn Autumn (or was it Autumn Dawn?) who wants to write about a world in which gay is a lifestyle choice made by people who were abused as children and are condemned by her version of god . . . well.  It isn’t just that I disagree with her, though I certainly do.  Her beliefs don’t invite me in; they shut me out.  It’s hard to imagine that I’d be interested in the world she creates for her characters.  I’d guess that, from her POV, that’s okay.  She isn’t trying to connect with me.  She has a different sort of reader in mind.

So I guess I agree with those who say it’s more about how and author expresses her views, in most cases.  With the caveat that a few viewpoints are inherently alienating.  Pedophilia is an easy example. For me, religiously cloaked homophobia does it, too.

But I also lol’d over Marie’s post:

I did skip to the end to catch the scene where the villain takes drugs to make all his hair fall out so he can’t be identified by his DNA when he murders his ex-wife.

UM, WTF????  ... I do not need just72 more reasons not to finish this book, the anti-neutering thing was enough.

Yep.  I’ll add anti-pet-neutering rants to my list of inherently alienating views.  And thanks for the chuckle.

Eileen

I think if I were a true homophobe, I would not care to include gay people in my list of friends. Close friends, even.

Okay, setting aside the hard-core porn for a moment… here’s another thing that really, REALLY trips my “ick” meter.

The thought of my parents doing . . .  that which accounts for my very existence on this planet.

Not homosexual relations, not hard-core porn, just normal male-female relations. Between two married people. My parents. Relations that would be sanctioned (and even encouraged) by just about any religious belief system you might care to name. And yet….

YUUUUCK!!!

I’ve never done anything resembling a scientific poll… but I’ve never run across anyone who was NOT really, really grossed out by that thought…. I think it’s universal. So what kind of ‘phobe is that? Not being a smart-aleck, just curious. Really.

@ Jennifer Armentrout:
There are a lot of people in here talking about how writers respond to reviewers, or whatever, and that turning them off… well, how would you like it if someone strolled into your job and started talking shit about you?  That’s what happens to authors, at times, and everyone has a breaking point. 

I would like to point out that a reviewer responding negatively to an author’s work is different than someone coming into my office and bashing me because the author has presented his/her work for public approvial and the person sitting in his/her office has not.  There is quite a difference there IMO.

I do agree with you that a review of a book should not encompass any personal remarks about the authors beliefs or supposed beliefs.  A good review should focus on the content of the book itself whether postivie or negative and leave personal opinions about the author out of it. Some reviewers step over the line, which I am sure, is difficult for an author to take.  However, my opinion of both reviewer and author can be and is shaped by how the reviewer reviews and how the author responds or doesn’t respond.

I don’t think I have ever seen an author or celebrity garner greater respect by responding to a negative review.  Most times it just makes the responder look like a petulent child.

@job
While I respect your opinion, I think the comparison only really works if an individual decides to stop reading Author X (for whatever reason), decides that no one else should read this author either, and takes steps to make the books inaccessible to others (by stealing all the library copies, for example, or complaining to the library management in order to have them removed).  If the individual decides to impose their choice on other people (or if, as Courtney says, a government does so) then we have a problem.  But an individual making a choice on how to spend their money or time - no matter how bigoted or wrong-headed I might find the reasons for their choice - is their own business.

As for my personal never-buy line, it depends on if I’ve read the author before.  I can overlook bad online behaviour if I really love the author’s work (unless their behaviour is really heinous), but if it’s a new to me author it will put me off ever picking up one of their books.  This is why I avoid blogs and messageboards for authors I really enjoy, because I don’t want to know what it would take for me to feel I couldn’t read one of them anymore.

PlainJane: That, however, is a subject for another time.

And I, for one, would love to read about it.

For those wondering about Anne McCaffrey, please google “Anne McCaffrey” and “Tent Peg Controversy”.

It’s fascinating stuff.

I actually have some ongoing dilemmas there, not at all romance novel specific:
My entire, somewhat Jewish [it’s complicated] Austrian family love the author Heimito von Doderer [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimito_von_Doderer]. That despite the common knowledge that Doderer was a card-carrying Nazi even before Austria was annexed by Germany in 38… Well - we sometimes discuss this puzzling fact of our tastes, and his political leanings are actually never apparent in his novels. In his rather hefty tomes, I cannot recall a single negative mention of any ethnic or religious group.

On the other hand, George Orwell [for one], in Down and Out in Paris or London, writes a few throw-away sentences about some nasty Jews [and how they are accruing money by exploiting others] that made it hard for me to read on… I also read the Italian Communist Antonia Gramsci lately [Prison Notebooks - at this point I feel the urge to reaffirm I DO also read trashy novels] and in an aside [I guess the correct term would be analogy] he refers to ‘those nasty Jewish ways’. Now, Gramsci was recommended to me by all kinds of radical friends but I still remember that more than his ideals of revolution and equality…

As regards romance, I actually cannot deal with any novels featuring military heroes, so that includes most of Brockmann [I will, however, not bash individual soldiers in daily life, when I met them]... But that’s more a choice based on personal taste than any ideological boycott attempt.

So, my summary would be, it is definitely about the writing first and foremost, which I would argue [as discussed above]...

I did not by a book about Palestine once, though, because it was for donations to a sectarian group [read: encouraging violence] I really had no wish to support…

... Rambling…

CrankyBeach: I’m curious to know if you read romances, and if so, what kind are they?

I’m not trying to bash it into the ground, I’m just confused.  There are a lot of sweet romances that allude to sex only gently, if at all, but Suzanne Brockmann doesn’t write that kind.

Do you read romances with love scenes in them at all?  Can you read the scenes without picturing your friends and family standing in for the characters?

I can read about Susan Elizabeth Phillips’ characters Jack and April Patriot without imagining my parents having sex.  I can read about Brockmann’s Sam and Alyssa without imaging my neighbours having sex.  I can read about Robin and Chad without imagining my gay friends having sex.

So I guess I’m wondering why gay love scenes ick you out and non-gay ones featuring non-parental figures don’t.  Assuming you read them.

@CrankyBeach: I get the feeling that you’re now coming up with stuff just to argue against the bias comments. NOONE in this ENTIRE WORLD would want to know about their parents having sex. It is an EXCEPTION. I also do not care to know about the intimate sex life of my friends and other family members. This somehow does not stand at the same level as calling an entire sexual orientation’s romance scenes “ick”.

Typing this before delving into the responses…

I think writers have a right to share their beliefs and I don’t think people should spitefully punish them over it. However, I don’t think it’s spiteful for a reader to legitimately realize they can no longer read someone whose believes are butting up against the reader’s beliefs. I also think a writer has to consider the possibility they might lose readers.

It’s brave for a writer to speak out on matters that are important to her, knowing there might be backlash. It’s admirable, even if I don’t agree with their stance and even if it means I’ll stop buying them. What I don’t respect is when a writer seems to think that they should be able to say anything without repercussions—that’s too have-cake-and-eat-it-too-y for my tastes.

The great thing about the internet is that you don’t have to share everything—ever belief or moment of pique. That means you can choose which swords you’re willing to fall upon, which battles to fight, which beliefs are worth the loss of some readers. It also means that most of the meltdowns are a pathetic example of no impulse control.

Anything a writer types they need to be prepared to own.

Coming92: Wow, am I getting the interesting words today.

For example: the Left Behind books ... I’ll never read these because they are so contrary to my world view that I simply wouldn’t enjoy the story.

For years now Slaktivist has been proving that a huge amount of enjoyment can be mined from reading Left Behind. 

He also watched the 1st movie, but found that it was much too bad to be enjoyable on its own merits and not nearly bad enough to be really funny. http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/index.html

Why are we treating this as anything but consumer choice and expression?  It isn’t anti-art to decide not to support an artist.  We support institutions and individuals with our dollars when we spend… or NOT.  Period.

I don’t shop at Walmart for a million reasons.  Does that mean I don’t like what they sell?  Does it mean I don’t support capitalism? 

No, it means I don’t want to empower anyone or anything I find to be morally repugnant.  So while I do like Keds sneakers I will buy them elsewhere or not buy them at all (actually I wear Ed Hardys but whatever).  I’m not anti-sneaker.  I’m anti-asshole.

If an author’s books have sucked consistantly I stop buying.  If an author is a jerk, harms others, or does not deserve my money because he or she is a bad person in my view, they don’t get my money. 

I also don’t go to the garage 15 miles away even though they are cheaper than my local guy.

1. the owner of the cheap place is a conviceted pedophile and I’m anti-child-rape
2.  the owner of the local place is a nice guy and I want to support local places
3.  it’s my freaking money

Why complicate it?

It’s interesting; my Don’t-Buy line is different than my Don’t-Read line. I’m willing to keep reading an author via second-hand books and the library long after I’ve decided to never give them another dime of royalties.

Orson Scott Card, I am looking at you.

All of my do-not-buy books are based on past reading of that particular author. Sometimes, I have started out loving an author and then their works take some torturous paths and they lose me.

I will admit that some of my-do-not buy authors have made asses of themselves in public, but it still wasn’t the reason I quit reading them.

It all comes down to enjoyment of the books.  That’s why I read.

GrowlyCub,

I didn’t read the whole thread, and may have felt differently if I had. I do think, at the sites I personally visit, that the observation that there is a small and vocal group who dislike both the books and the author just seems to be true. (Lots of people, of course, just don’t like the book - which is a different thing.)
I posted on Brockmann’s MB forever, so I’m in the deeply suspect fangirl category.

For John C. Bunnell:

Anne McCaffrey allegedly made a rather infamous statement in an interview about a single homosexual experience [including rape] turning straight men gay.  You can find references to it around the web—mostly if you search for “Anne McCaffrey” and “tent peg.”  This contains the main section of the transcript at issue.  (The other links to the full transcript online seem to be dead at the moment.)

The only line that concerns me at the bookstore is the one in front of the register. As long as I find the books interesting and well written, I will continue to buy. Once I am bored, I’ll check out the back cover and consider my purchase a little more carefully.

I kinda still feel guilty every time I hear a Michael Jackson song on the radio, but I still tend to sing along.

When Anne Rice lashed out at her fans, I was like, “Ugh, puh-leeze,” but then I put myself in her shoes.  I do the same thing when Laurel Hamilton goes off about her negative readers.  With both those authors, the readers aren’t just criticizing the work.  They’re making judgments against the authors personally, talking about their religion, or their marriage situation.  That’s ridiculous, and they have every right to lash out at the reviews that cross that line.

I was a very active member of LKH’s messageboard at the time of her Negative Readers rant, and yes there were comments made about her marriage and her religion and the similarities between her books and real life. Of course there were when she constantly puts it all out there for the world to see on her blog.

She has said time and time again that Anita is her avatar and that Anita won’t do something that LKH herself hasn’t done. So yeah, the threesomes and moresomes that Anita engages in cause a lot of speculation. She came right out and said in an early interview that Richard was based on her first husband. So yeah, the Richard bashing that has occurred in the books following her divorce can logically be construed as bashing her ex-husband. And if you read the description of Micah and look at a picture of her current husband, you can definitely see the similarities. Right down to the “no cutting of the hair” promise they made to each other.

When your life and your books intertwine as much as hers do, then people are going to notice and talk about it. They’re going to connect the dots and read between the lines. Especially when your husband and personal assistant constantly lambaste anyone with a negative opinion no matter how polite that opinion is stated. If it weren’t personal why such vitriol from otherwise supposedly impartial people?

I was a member of the old LKH board back in the day, and right before the meltdown of that board, I and members of several snark boards were systematically banned from the LKH board for no reason. When we contacted the board admin about it, we were told that it was a board error. Uh… yeah… right. A board error that alphabetically banned almost all members of those snark boards and nobody else. 

I don’t feel sorry for her at all. She has given us all of this information of her own free will, yet when people talk about it and come to the obvious conclusions, she gets huffy and pulls the you’re all mean, spiteful, jealous haters card. 

Almost every year she writes a blog where she talks about how she doesn’t feel the need to over share on her blog. How she doesn’t engage in TMI because there are some things that total strangers just shouldn’t know. Yet, her last couple of blogs have talked about the sex toys her and her husband bought. There was a blog a couple of months back with specifics on what they did with a candle.

Uhh… sorry that kind of degenerated into a rant. What it all boils down to is that LKH is the one and only author who is on my definitely will never buy or read again list.

An author can say, think, or do whatever they want. Their political, personal, religious beliefs are of no concern to me unless they use it to bash other people. Criticizing and insulting readers just because they are intelligent enough to add two and two together and call you on it is crass and childish.

Jennifer Armintrout said:

There are a lot of people in here talking about how writers respond to reviewers, or whatever, and that turning them off… well, how would you like it if someone strolled into your job and started talking shit about you?  That’s what happens to authors, at times, and everyone has a breaking point.

Sorry, not trying to pile on here. I’m really, really NOT trying to start a pissing contest, but I have to disagree with your analogy.  Someone walking into a working stiff’s job and talking shit about them is more like someone walking into a publisher’s office and talking shit about one of their authors.  Someone going to an author’s website, blog or online reviews and talking shit is like some one going to a working stiff’s website or blog and talking shit. Sure, the author is hoping to use the online presence to promote their writing career and some idiot with above average verbal skills and/or below average humanity (read: troll, bully or just plain asshole) could possibly screw with your income, that’s not gonna happen to the 9-to-5er, but that’s not the important part of this equation. The important point is that they are both on the internet, and that means that they are pretty much available to any dipstick with a phone jack.

Count me among the people who can distance themselves from an author’s personal views, so long as they don’t express them in a hateful, ignorant, or offensive manner.

I agree with you here, and I think many of the others who have commented do, too. It seems to me like a lot of them would also add “and knows how to pick their battles,” which is what I mean by not responding jerks on the ‘net. We’ve all seen trolls, we’ve all seen the foul-mouthed twelve-year-olds that are bored and decide to make rude comments, and we’ve all seen the morally-outraged flouncers. Why respond? And why do so in as nasty a manner as they used? I just don’t get authors who decide to take these people on.

As to responding to online reviews, specifically, I think most readers can distinguish between a review which takes a personal slant and one that merely says “this wasn’t my cup of tea.” (I’ve actually bought several books with bad reviews because I knew the reviewer’s sticking point was precisely my cup of tea.) Just like most folks can distinguish between the 5-star, gushing fangrl reviews that pad so many of the online sites, and the well thought out glowing review.

I know it’s hurtful. I know what it’s like to have something you’ve put your heart into get shit on. I know what it’s like to see lies and exaggerations and half-truths directed at you. I just think responding to the personal attack is bound to lose more readers in the long run than the nasty review would drive away in the first place.

I chose against reading certain authors because I think they are annoying (LKH—I’m talking to you!) but many of those authors would be off the list anyway.  When you use similes like “it was dark like things that are dark” or mix up lose and loose in every book, it gets old.

I read some author blogs and they make me like them more.  I used to keep a reading journal online and Colleen Gleason commented on it.  It made me MORE of a fan and I enjoy her blog.  I like Rachel Caine’s blog.  There are others.

And I don’t find Jim Butcher’s books misogynistic—I adore them!  I also respect Butcher’s choice to remove a character who was becoming an extreme Mary Sue even though he liked the character.

When I was fifteen, I was nearly raped by someone who I thought was a friend.  I managed to fight my way out of his clutches (ladies, you CAN fight back) and get away somewhere safe.

PlainJane, I am profoundly grateful that you were able to defend yourself and get away. I wish with all my heart that every assault situation would end similarly. I hesitate to bring this up at all, but there may be other assault/rape survivors reading this thread—and I just wanted to say that rape happens even when we do fight back. And that sometimes there are reasons why we don’t (a gun, fear for our lives, a disability). Our culture is so full of victim-blaming when it comes to rape—and so many women end up blaming themselves—I just wanted to say it: Rape is no one’s fault but the rapist’s. It is not the responsibility of women (or men or children) to fight back, but of rapists not to rape.

I am 100% for self-defense training, but it cannot be the whole solution.

/threadjack.

To make my previous comment clear: I didn’t mean to imply that PlainJane believes it to be the responsibility of women to fight back, but I was worried about how her sentence might read to someone who is struggling with guilt and self-blame.

To be on topic: I agree with many posters above that I have a hard time using my money to support an author or celebrity that I find personally distasteful. Tom Cruise is someone whose films I used to enjoy, but now I can’t just see him as a character—his personal life and opinions have tainted my image of him. There are authors that I’ve avoided picking up because of stuff I’ve read online, but none that I loved and then had to leave.

There have been authors that I’ve been encouraged to spend money on because of their blogs, though—Bettie Sharpe comes to mind.

I’ve been offending people since I got kicked out of Sunday School for calling Saint Paul a sexist

WIN. You must’ve been an awesome child.

I was worried about how her sentence might read to someone who is struggling with guilt and self-blame.

Thank you for saying this. I didn’t want to denigrate PlainJane story or start something (not that you did either), but that line about fighting back did take me a bit aback. I’m not a rape survivor (thank God), but I know all the fighting in the world may not save you.

My never-buy list is not large, but once you’re on it, you’re pretty much on it for life. There are very few things that cause me to stop reading a certain author.

I won’t read from an author who has women in love with a hero who has raped them or otherwise abused them. I won’t read from an author who is constantly shoving their religion in my face via their book. I’m not saying that a character can’t be religious or have beliefs, but when that character starts to monologue it’s pretty damn annoying. Or when the whole book is about “This is right and if you believe otherwise you are wrong ... and you’re going to hell.” If your writing style makes it impossible for me to get into the story, and I’ve tried more than one book, I’m just not going to pick up your stuff.

The one thing an author can do, not related to writing, that will put them on my list is to put it about that they are donating money to causes I strongly oppose. If I give you my money and you are using it to support something I’m against, then it’s like I’m supporting it by proxy. Won’t do that. If you spout off in an offensive manner about something, whether I agree with the opinion behind it or not, your probably going on the list. And I don’t mean that I just didn’t like what you said. I mean if you go being all ignorant and insulting towards people. Why would I want to give you my money if I think you are an complete @$$? Also, for that same reason, I won’t read an author if they are jerks to their readers. If you can’t treat the people who buy your stuff with a little respect then you just aren’t someone I want to give my money to.

Except this site, I don’t read too much of the opinions of authors.  It has to be a well-publicized kerfluffle before I’ll hear about it.  So, like anyone else, mostly I don’t buy what doesn’t interest me (CE’s subgenre did that long before I found this blog) or where the quality simply isn’t there.  My line in the sand for opinions/scandal isn’t real hard and fast; if whatever I know keeps my head out of the story, then I don’t want to read the book.  So, this Autumn Dawn person, nah, not even from the clearance rack at HPB now that I know her views.  And there are some world-views that can be gleaned from the writing that will break my focus from the story to the author.  Like, it’s not too difficult to tell when an author is big-time anti-choice in the way they write an unexpected pregnancy.  Or, here’s a funny little example:  an author that I do enjoy but had previously moved to “library first, clearance rack later” because quality didn’t merit hardback prices mentioned that her characters were watching Fox News.  I can’t stand Fox News, and the rest of the book, found myself thinking “Fox News?  Seriously?” Now, who wants to be thinking that instead of focusing on smokin’ hot sex or ass-kicking action?

I usually don’t put authors on my “do not buy” list, just the books.  I am not going to quit reading an author I enjoy simply because one book contained an element that I didn’t care for.  I have gay friends and am not homophobic in the least.  However, I am not gay and therefore really have no desire to read books with strong homosexual content.  I just simply can’t relate to these cases any more than a gay man/woman could relate to heterosexual romance.  If I wanted to read a gay romance I would do so.  The content is not for me, doesn’t mean I am going to totally dismiss the author.

That being said, everyone has the right to their own views and opinions.  I have no problem with people expressing these views as long as it is not presented in an offensive manner.  I DO have a problem when someone’s views are as stupid and unfounded as Autumn Dawn’s.  Her comment on how children who are raped grow up beliving they are gay was the most rediculous thing I have ever read!  Being gay is not a product of traumatic events nor is a choice. 

I think Autumn Dawn may have the distinct honor of being the first author on my DO NOT BUY list.

Kerfluffle, indeed.  There seems to be one paragraph where Brockmann lost her cool.  The rest was very well thought-out.  I thought.  But, then, I giggle at the word “maverick,” too. 

Autumn Dawn?  I personally find her beliefs about homosexuality offensive.  But that is not what put me completely over the edge.  At the beginning of her chatter, she writes:

“And here’s a quirk of mine—if I don’t like the language, I keep a pen handy. I also use it to throw in the occasional forgotten question mark, quotes, etc. I read a favorite author’s book lately and I swear that the copy editor never got their hands on it.”

But later, we see:

“Angles are messengers of God and demons are agents of Satan.”

...ummm…angles? 

That’s what crossed the line with me.  A writer may have one opinion or another, but a professional at least proofreads his or her own work before denigrating anothers.  Cross Autumn Dawn (if that is her real name) off my list!

FLOUNCE!

Really, at the least the demons are upfront. It’s the fallen angles that you have to wary of.

Hey, I was just wondering-What did Orson Scott Card do? I looked him and found some sites that talked about his stance on homosexuality and on premarital sex. Were either of these what was mentioned? Or both? Or something else I didn’t find?

As far as why I wont read some authors-I agree with those that said they don’t like it if the person’s politics spills over into the writing. I hadn’t ever really paid attention to Ann Coulter, but after just reading the titles of her work I was turned off.

I just simply can’t relate to these cases any more than a gay man/woman could relate to heterosexual romance.

Who says they can’t?

I get gay romance not being your cuppa, that’s cool, but just because you personally can’t get into a same-sex romance doesn’t mean other heteros can’t. I personally enjoy them so long as the writing is good. Seriously, m/m, f/f or m/f makes no difference to me so long as the story is good and well writen. I’m sure there are homosexual people out there who pick up a romance and are more interested in the author’s writing ability than the sexual orientation of the characters.

Mine is mostly a don’t bother list because of the writing or storylines are bad/not interesting.

But my newest don’t buy is not because of those but for what I call greed and stupidity. She has stopped writing ebooks, not for any other reason then she believes that if her books show up as pirated versions then she’s losing out. Sorry but your big NY publishers books are being pirated just as much if not more. Actually I think more seeing as how she switched from ebook to print mid series and people don’t want to pay those ebook prices or wait until the bookscan numbers come in.

She is now punishing all her law abiding loyal ebook readers just for what looks to me profit. She’s also saying bad things about her epub by now deserting them for NY and all it’s supposed glory.

I probably would never have thought anything about the switch and continued to buy her books if she hadn’t ranted about all the hours she spends combing download sites versus actually writing books. Hire the local computer savvy teenager to do this for you and quit whining about something that happens to every author, musician, actor and director that makes something digitally formatted. You don’t have to like it but there is truly nothing you can do to stop it other than quit producing work.

Personally, I don’t necessarily see it as a “flounce”, although there have been times that’s how it can come off. If the reader has been quiet and/or lurking most of the thread and pops up to say such, I’m more likely to see it as a statement that, “I don’t believe this behavior is okay, and I’m not going to support it with my money.”

For me, it’s when an author is intentionally cruel to a reader.

There is one example, that was actually publicized some on Karen Knows Best… I had actually already stopped buying this author’s work new because of her prior behavior, but this took the cake. She received a private e-mail from a reader disagreeing with something on her blog, printed the e-mail on said blog, and called the reader a litany of names. I’d say it was juvenile, but I don’t think I’ve seen many kids express that level of vehement hate.

I will not buy a certain author that launched into a rant about how I was not a good enough feminist because of an analogy I used in a SF/F reader’s community. When I tried to clarify what I meant, the author continued to berate me and lecture me about what “my mothers and grandmothers” went through. The author was male. Even if the author had been female, I still would’ve been pissed off, because it made an absolute mountain out of a teensy little molehill. His objections to my phrasing could have been explained calmly, but instead… it was wild crazy frothing at the mouth. *sigh*

Although not *quite* falling into the “cruelty to readers” category, another author recently made my list with her antics on Dear Author and Karen Knows Best. I’ve seen true forum trolls that behaved better than she did.

There are a lot of books out there. I would rather my money go to an author that I like and want to support. Particularly as my income is not that great these days. There are some authors that turn into complete raving lunatics after I have started reading, and I’ll then start buying their books used. (Though this isn’t possible for e-pub.)

It takes a lot to get me to the point I won’t buy someone. Currently, there are 3 people on that list, the ones I have mentioned above. That’s it.

Hey, I was just wondering-What did Orson Scott Card do? I looked him and found some sites that talked about his stance on homosexuality and on premarital sex.

I haven’t followed the matter closely, but I believe some of Card’s statements on homosexuality have severely angered elements of the gay community.  He is also, as it happens, a Mormon of long standing, and has written novels specifically targeted to the Mormon community, as well as a number of SF/F novels with varying degrees of Mormon themes and resonances.  His political views may also be in play here, as they have become more widely reported via his own blog and elsewhere on the Web.

@ Courtney

(waves)

>>>If an author believes women are best staying at home and losing careers, her HEA might reflect that,  ... something I would find unsatisfying.<<<

<

Me too.
Avoiding such books would seem an excellent idea.

This is judging a book on what is IN the book.

>

>>  You can’t help but put some of your beliefs in your books.  <<

<

Mebbe.
I am less convinced of this than I might be.

The thing is, I'd say most deeply held beliefs just aren't

relevant to what folks are writing.  They don’t show up in the story.

Presented with 20 Harlequin Historicals, it is unlikely most people could separate Catholic writers from Jews, heterosexuals from homosexuals, and those who believe the National Debt should be addressed by raising the interest rate from those want to impose tariff barriers. 

Yet the politics, sexual orientation or religion of authors do show up as factors that influence book choice.

>>>Putting authors on the non-buy list because you think their political/religious beliefs, as expressed, mean you won’t be able to enjoy their books is just smart use of resources.  <<<

<

I go along with this when the beliefs are expressed in the fiction ... Oh, yes. Agreed. Certainly. This can kill enjoyment of the book.

>

>>>The other thing that differentiates exercising personal choice from, say, Nazi book-burning, is that censorship is something governments do, not something individuals do.  <<<<

And public morality is different from private morality. 
I have chosen my example badly if this is seen as a question of public versus private morality.

A better example might be the friend of mine who will not listen to Wagner because of Wagner’s political beliefs.
The work of art is ‘poisoned’ for him because of the artist.  The music is not judged on its merits, but on its maker.

This choosing books on the basis of who wrote them rather than what is IN them. leaves me puzzling over the way we relate the work of art to the creator. 

Take the example of the reviewer. 
Ideally, a reviewer considers the merits of the book alone.
Bad reviews are criticism of the book, not the author.

Is the reciprocal true? 
Why does condemnation of the author become a condemnation of the book?

“Angles are messengers of God and demons are agents of Satan.”

...ummm…angles?

And this is why I try never to publicly complain about anyone’s grammar, editing or typing skills.  Mine are far from infallible, especially the spelling, and I would be sure to make a total ass.

And Julia, I won’t go into the problems with Orson Scott Card here because I have a tendency to rant about him in a way that I would rather not display in public.  In this as in so many other things, Google is your friend.  Type in “Orson Scott Card + asshole” and take your pick.

here’s a funny little example:  an author that I do enjoy but had previously moved to “library first, clearance rack later” because quality didn’t merit hardback prices mentioned that her characters were watching Fox News.  I can’t stand Fox News, and the rest of the book, found myself thinking “Fox News?  Seriously?” Now, who wants to be thinking that instead of focusing on smokin’ hot sex or ass-kicking action?

I had a similar reaction to Linda Howard’s book (Up Close & Dangerous, I think) that features the H/H surviving a plane crash in the mountains.  Howard’s a guilty pleasure of mine, I enjoy her over-the-top, superhero heroes.

This one though.  Strong alpha male, check.  Ex-military, check.  Flies a passenger in a small plane without a survival kit.  WTF?  What kind of idiot doesn’t have a survival kit in his plane?  I can see it in a jumbo jet, but a small passenger plane flying over vast tracts of wilderness should ALWAYS have a survival kit in it.  Failure to have a survival kit means you’re dumb.

This particular failure to have a survival kit was apparently necessary for the plot, but I spent the entire book (after the crash) being thrown out of the story, boggling at the idiocy of the hero.  He was dumb.  He didn’t deserve to be the hero.  His dumbness cast doubt on all of his good, hero-like qualities.

My own buy/not-buy filters are probably skewed in that I’ve been a reviewer (on the SF/F side of the genre fence) for many years, and as such have often had more books and proto-books on hand than I could hope to read if I had a spare decade and no other commitments. 

This is less true now than it once was, but my decision matrix is still much more often focused on what to read rather than what to buy.  In practice, it works out to rather the opposite of a “don’t buy” list—there are a handful of authors whose works I buy (even when I don’t have to) as a deliberate expression of support for their work.

Out of all that reviewing and reading, I’ve remained largely neutral on authorial scandals whether political or personal.  There is, however, exactly one author whose books I’ve resolved never to buy new—Gregory Maguire.  As a longtime fan of L. Frank Baum’s Oz stories, I was profoundly annoyed with Wicked to the extent that I actually took the book back to the store for a refund.  Understand here that I am by no means an anti-fanfiction zealot; quite the contrary, in fact.  I will readily buy and/or read Sherlock Holmes pastiches, some excellent and some dreadful.  But Maguire pushed one of my English-major buttons with Wicked, and as a result he gets no more royalty tithes from me.  [This presents a minor moral dilemma with respect to the musical, which I understand to be a somewhat different animal.  Perhaps fortunately, my budget isn’t likely to extend to a ticket when it comes through town this spring.]

@linday

> I think the comparison only really works if an individual decides to stop reading Author X ... , decides that no one else should read this author either,

<

I have chosen my comparison badly, then.

The salient point is not that judging books by some aspect of the author's race, religion, ethos or lifestyle is a slippery slope to censorship, bookburning and chaos ...

or that people should not, individually, judge books on any basis at all ....
Good heavens.

The point, for me, is that judging a work of art by the race, religion, ethos, lifestyle etc. of the artist
rather than by the value of the art

is an act engaged in by many folks I cannot approve of.

So I ask myself to what extent one is justified in condemning the art because we condemn the man ...

>But an individual making a choice on how to spend their money or time - no matter how bigoted or wrong-headed I might find the reasons for their choice - is their own business.

<

Oh yes. (applause)
The right to be bigoted and wrong-headed is absolute and I would defend to the death their right to do so except most of them already seem armed to the teeth and I'd probably get caught in the crossfire.

>

>>This is why I avoid blogs and messageboards for authors I really enjoy, because I don’t want to know what it would take for me to feel I couldn’t read one of them anymore.<<<

I agree.  I’d like to preserve my illusions.

Since I actually don’t buy that many books, this isn’t an issue for me.  I use the public library to test drive books and then buy the ones that I want to own or re-read.  However, I do have a “DO NOT READ/ AGAIN” line.  Most of the time, it’s when I read a book that utterly bores me or infuriates me.  I just try and avoid the books I’m pretty sure I won’t like.  I have a pretty high tolerance for authors and what they do and say.

I can’t give up Orson Scott Card.  His Ender books are some of my favorite books and Ender’s Game is usually how I turn people on to Sci/Fi. I know what his beliefs are, but I don’t think they leak all that much into his writing (exception Home Coming series). 

I love Suz Brockmann and I don’t know if there’s anything she can say that would make me stop reading her books or buying them.  I also think that as the mother of a gay son, she probably reacts a bit more strongly to negative criticism to the gay storyline in her books.  Though, most of the bitchery readers seemed to be upset about the lack of sex scenes between Robin and Jules, than the gay romance itself.

Does anyone wish we could revert to when books were bought by a familiar author’s name, cover art, genre, word of mouth, jacket copy—whatever caught the eye/imagination—and the author’s personal life, politics, religion, ad nauseum, were blissfully neither at issue or known?  Much less now sort-of demanded to be on cyberspacial display by that author’s publisher? 

Seriously.  I ask as both a writer and reader.  Because in my experience, most writers tip toward introverts.  Some are and always have been not nice people to be around.  It’s hardly a surprise that tongue-slips happen, but now the risk that slip goes global in seconds is scary.  Time was, not so long ago, when author photos weren’t common on book jackets.  Now the author blog craze alone—honestly, I know few writers whose personal lives and certainly, work days, wouldn’t put an insomniac to sleep.  Years ago, my then-3rd grader son lost points because I couldn’t participate in a career day, host-a-classmate thing.  (The rule was, Parent had to host randomly selected classmate at his/her workplace.  I asked whether drop-ins at bookstores, or other promo-like activities were acceptable.  They were not).  Now can you imagine anything more hideously boring for anyone of any age than watching some broad in sweats and bad hair type, stare at the ceiling, type some more, thumb through a reference book, type, stare, mutter, etc?

Do your favorite authors’ real lives or opinions or what-have-you matter to you that much?  By most of these posts, I’m guessing not, other than confirmed plagiarism.  It still seems to be a story well told that earns your hard-earned dollars.  If so, do you disagree with and/or ignore the whole author-as-brand/celebrity/blog blather/MySpace/YouTube push?  Do you follow many?  Or would you prefer writers spend more time crafting books and less flinging themselves into cyberspace?  If, of course, publishers would just let them . . ..

What I read for pleasure and what I vote on two VERY VERY VERY different things.

If the author stops producing good WORK and begins witting in a shoddy manner then I do not buy.

If I find out they take all proceeds from the books they sell and put it in something I disagree with then I utilize the library.

My money talks.  It says “Entertain me.”  Not “Use me to further your own personal political view points.”

Doesn’t matter what side of whatever issue they fall on.

The one and only author I refuse to buy anymore is Laurel K. Hamilton.  And that was because her quality of story tanked and tanked fast.  Not to mention hardback prices are rising. :(

I would like to point out that a reviewer responding negatively to an author’s work is different than someone coming into my office and bashing me because the author has presented his/her work for public approvial and the person sitting in his/her office has not.  There is quite a difference there IMO.

No, it’s not like someone walking into an office job, but let’s apply the analogy to just about anyone who works closely with the public, who do put their work out for public approval… a chef, let’s say.  Someone comes in and orders spaghetti, and they don’t like it when it gets to them.  Maybe it’s a little cold, maybe it’s angel hair and not spaghetti and they feel it has been misrepresented, whatever.  If they say, “I didn’t care for this particular dish,” that’s acceptable.  If they say, “I didn’t care for this dish, and since it was not up to my standards, I can tell that you are not too bright,” that’s not.  Just because the job someone does puts them in the public eye or creates product for public consumption does not mean that the public can, in turn, treat them like garbage if they feel like it.

I guess what I’m saying is, paying 6.99 for my paperback book is not the same thing as buying my unconditional good mood if that person then chooses to verbally assault me.

I was a very active member of LKH’s messageboard at the time of her Negative Readers rant, and yes there were comments made about her marriage and her religion and the similarities between her books and real life. Of course there were when she constantly puts it all out there for the world to see on her blog.

Yeah, in hindsight, that wasn’t such a good example, because the waters get a little muddied with this particular author in light of how much she shares online.  I’m talking about the reviews that were downright nasty, the ones that said things like “she should have never gotten a divorce, because it made her writing suck,” that were really, really over the line.

I know what it’s like to have something you’ve put your heart into get shit on. I know what it’s like to see lies and exaggerations and half-truths directed at you. I just think responding to the personal attack is bound to lose more readers in the long run than the nasty review would drive away in the first place.

Honestly, the bad reviews don’t bother me, if they make a point.  I get a lot of reviews that are like, “I didn’t like it because it was too gory,” “I didn’t like it because the heroine won’t make up her mind,” and I can look at those and go, “Okay, I can see why you don’t like it, and I understand that my writing isn’t for everyone.”  But honestly, if a reader is going to say, “I won’t read your books unless you let people talk smack about you on the internet,” well, I suppose their thirty-nine cents aren’t destined for my wallet.

Now, I’m not talking about “OMG DON’T BE MEAN TO ME AND ALSO YOU SOUND FAT” type author tantrums.  But if a reader is on Amazon saying, “I didn’t like this author’s book, and because of its contents I can deduce that she obviously kicks puppies,” why shouldn’t an author say, “You know, I would appreciate it if you didn’t circulate false information about me, that’s super uncool.”

Though, most of the bitchery readers seemed to be upset about the lack of sex scenes between Robin and Jules, than the gay romance itself.

Ditto, Tae.

They (the private scenes between Jules and Robin) are about the tamest scenes in the book. In fact, even the former nun’s story had heavier sex.

“coming87” I got a better one this time…

Lawdy, if I started talking about the in story book events or per-story basis Never Buy Again Line (editing, story elements, character actions, etc) my list would be much, much longer than the whole topic of when you stop buying books based on author behavior/beliefs/comments.  As I mentioned somewhere in a reply above, I rarely bother to read anything about an author’s life… which is why this post cracked me up:

I use my blog and website to promote my books.

I figure anything else would likely bore my readers.
~ P. N. Elrod

Taking off my reader hat for a moment and putting on the writer hat, I have to say I totally agree with this sentiment.  As potential publication (woohoo! and knocking wood) looms on the horizon for me, I’ve done a lot of thinking about a website and the content and how everybody always tells me, “You have to have a blog!”  All I keep thinking is Why!?  I am so not interesting and who would care what I have to say about anything????  I’d totally bore everybody to death!  LOL.  :D

When I bother to look up an author’s site, I’m there 99% of the time looking for upcoming releases or a full list of their works so I can dig up all their books and not miss a single delicious one.

JT

Orson Scott Card IS my Do Not Buy list, and I’m with Moi when it comes to him.  I managed to read nine of his books and meet him before I found out about his homophobic views, and now that I know I can’t stand the thought of giving him money, knowing what it might go to support.  But I still like the Ender’s Game series, and I’m not going to get rid of nine books I like because of things that the author wrote somewhere other than in the book.  I got Ender in Exile from the library to keep up with the characters, and I will pick up books of his from the library book sale if they look good.  The reason that he has to be on the Do Not Buy (firsthand, anway) list is that I mostly like his writing.  If I didn’t then not buying him would come naturally.

For the few authors on my Do Not Buy list, they made it there because they were rude to myself or a reader. Usually it has to be something I’ve witnessed.

I can’t say an author’s politics would stop me from buying their books only because a good book is a good book. Now if they tried to force their politics down my throat….that’s another story.

I think my never buy line is pretty hard to get to.  I tend to go there not because of the authors personal opinions or politics but instead in relation to the actual book quality itself.  For example, an author whose books progressively deteriorate in quality goes to the never buy list.

In my case, I read Autumn Dawn when she wrote ebooks and I liked her one series.  Unfortunately, she never seemed to quite make that leap in writing and I was always left hungry for something.  So, I stopped buying.  So, she is now on the never buy, don’t borrow from the library, and do not even glance at the book in the bookstore list.

I recently read a book, can’t recall the name, that posited that the writer becomes a sort of character in his or her books—that the reader comes away with a perception of the person writing the story. I think there is a certain truth to that.

I’m not talking about readers thinking horror writers are deranged or what have you, which is absurd, but that readers tend to have a feeling on whether or not that’d like the writer and perhaps his or her stances on certain things.

A blogging or opinionated writer risks showing herself to be different than the perception or going from subtly making her presence known in her stories to being too present.

On the other hand, some writers gain readers this way, too. They like the online persona and so they give the writer their support.

My no buy zone is more related to whether I enjoyed the book or not, whether I found the writing good, etc.  I suppose I’d wouldn’t buy Cassie Edwards or Janet Dailey but those books don’t appeal to me anyway, so it’s no great sacrifice.

I love Jenny Cruise’s books.  If she made a joke in poor taste, well it’s no worse than I’ve done.  The internet means we can stuff up to a wider audience!

I didn’t read all of the B&N Q&A, just the last post by Hopefloats and Ms. Brockmann.  I have mixed feelings about her response.  However, I really enjoy her books.

I haven’t read DON yet.  I am waiting to see what I think of the various pairings but I did expect Decker and Sophia to get together and was suprised at the end of ITF.  I don’ really know what I think about it yet.  It may be in DON, but I don’t feel that up to the end of ITF there was that many clues that Deck and Sophia weren’t going to get a HEA with each other.  I thought that Dave would be swept of his feet by someone else.  Does anyone know whether it was always the plan for Dave and Sophia to get together or was it a fairly recent move?

I did think that Ms. Brockmann copped out a little in ATTN - her other novels have steamy sex scenes but with Jules and Robin, it stopped at the bedroom door.  She did write that she didn’t want to offend her readership.  I thought that ATTN was pretty stand alone though and those readers who didn’t want to read explicit scenes could skip the book.  I wanted to see what she would do with it.  In the end, I felt a little cheated. I mean, if you’re gonna do it (write a mainstream m/m romance), go all the way.  Just my opinion though.
Great thread. Have enjoyed reading the posts.  Must get back to work now!!

My DO NOT BUY/READ ANYTHING BY AUTHOR DOE line is pretty much at this point: an author commits treason (against country or in personal life) for personal financial gain. I’ve not yet come up against this scenario, thank goodness. Other than that, there are certain genres I don’t buy or read, but that’s just my general taste, not author specific squick.

My no-buy line is kinda fuzzy, and sometimes easily tripped.  Other times, not so much.  It’s an individual thing.  I won’t buy plagiarists—if they’ve been proven guilty.  I pretty much won’t buy anything on Oprah’s list out of the understanding that anything she likes, I will probably hate (we all read for escape, and she must read to escape the life of joy, fame, fortune, good luck, and happy endings, LOL).  Most of the time, an author’s political opinions or pet issues are things that, if discovered, I will hold separate from the author’s work.  Unless and until that author either goes batshit crazy about them, uses the work to preach or push the author’s agenda (thus making the “tell a good story” goal take a backseat), or those opinions are truly loathsome to me. 

Authors Behaving Badly is occasionally amusing, and I’ve been known to drop some silver on an author with an opinionated presence, sometimes just to throw a little good mojo their way for taking a stand and sticking to it, or for being insightful, if less than tactful.  I’m an author myself (albeit a very very small potato), and I try to be polite and respectful in public (including the internet) while still trying to be myself, and my quirky sense of humor is bound to end up rubbing someone the wrong way.  I’m hoping that I’m articulate enough that whenever that happens, I’ll at least get points for “generally inoffensive.” 

Authors can be passionate about issues, as long as their writing is still good.  Whoever posted about the “we interrupt this decent story for a two-page screed on pro-life issues”—I totally hear you.  More than one dent in my walls comes from just that thing.  And some from other issues—some I even agree with.  But dude—if you have to STOP THE STORY to get your issue position out, then UR DOIN’ IT RONG.  Move two spaces backwards to the “tell a good story” space and lose a turn. (Y HALO THAR TOM CLANCY)

This Autumn Dawn’s opinions would normally not affect me as much—she’s entitled like everybody else to her own opinions.  But not her own facts, which is where she trips the trigger onto the “avoid like the plague.”  Her idea that “one man+one woman=biblically based” makes me wonder if she’s read the same Bible, considering most of the relationships in the Bible are “one man+all the women he can afford”—as per the reality of life in the ancient near east at the time.  If she’s that light on facts in her bio, what kind of sloppy work will I see in her writing?  I read many a Christian author, I have no doubt, but you wouldn’t know that because they don’t feel the need to advertise it when it’s completely irrelevant to their skill in telling a story.  It’s like sex—if you have to brag about it, you ain’t gettin’ it.

Now on the other hand, this author’s declaration is also a marketing move in itself.  While it turns off the folk like me, it’s also a siren call to folk on the other end of the spectrum.  She’s branded herself as a Christian, and that brand calls to mind a certain type of product.  One that a certain demographic is looking for.  Like any marketing effort, it’s bound to both attract and repel.

As for me—I’m a little more likely to seek out a new-to-me author for something insightful or funny or brave that they do than I am to cross them off when they do something stupid or ignorant.

As someone else said I love the Dresden series and Jim Butcher doesn’t seem chauvinistic at all.

I will never read C.S. Harris again after she cursed out and ranted against a so/so review at Amazon. 

I won’t support people who have plagiarized or support plagiarism.

My DNB list is populated by authors who’ve jumped the shark with me in terms of what they’re bringing to the story.  LKH, R.A. Salvatore (with the exception of his Sellswords series- that was fantastic), Dean Koontz;  they’ve all hit a point with me where it seems like they’re writing by formula.

Here I go about to cross some readers lines…

There is one author that took my don’t buy line and crossed off her whole genre.

And I was a huge Fan through the first seven books or so. I was a regular on her board and drove 12 hours to see her in person.
But after watching how on message boards and in person she isolated herself in a world where nothing was allowed but lackeys and fan girls/boys that she could feed her flagging self esteem with much like her characters feed off their mates I was done. Done not just with her but the whole genre. But she didn’t really want me as a fan anyway, I’m not her size. (that’s not snarky that was basically what she herself said)

I know there is still great stuff out there by other authors but I just can’t bring myself buy any of it.

But hey she did hire my favorite adult film star in basically a non- porn role so that’s one good thing she’s done.

Also @ Alex. I’ll with you. Southerns hard to capture correctly if you’re not one. So please don’t try if you know not what you do. There is one author that personally I like but won’t buy her books because she got her southern hero so so so wrong.

I wonder if Ms. Dawn shared Anne McCaffrey’s beliefs about the life-changing dangers of tent pegs?

LKH for me too.  Normally there aren’t many authors on my “never read” list because I don’t know anything about the authors, though my enjoyment of their works could be easily swayed in the same way every time I try to watch Braveheart, my mind goes “GRRR!” and I cannot enjoy it, even if it’s being presented for free.

If books I read by an author are bad, I generally won’t buy other books by that author because it’d be a bad investment, but a well regarded best-seller could easily persuade me to by again.  Similarly, if an author has a bad stretch and then recovers (Stephen King), I’ll more than happily return.

When LKH’s books took a nosedive, I was really disappointed, but didn’t know much about her at that point.  I went online to see if my opinion to her latest at the time had just been me on an off day or if others found it garbage-tastic as well, and found her response to criticism to be that people simply were not *sophisticated* enough to understand what she was trying to do.  My response was “Uh… I loved your first 8 books, but even I wouldn’t have confused them for requiring sophistication.”

Now, even if her books do or have recovered, don’t care.  Not interested.

I am always disappointed if an author I really like turns out to be a jerk, so when I do stumble across an author’s good attitude or similar opinions, I always have an internal sigh of relief.

My lines:

1. Plaigiarists. I’m sorry, but this is our uber-professional ethic. Wait, no. I’m not sorry. This is our uber-professional ethic.  You plaigiarize, you are dead to me.  I will tell everyone I see even picking up your book that you are a plaigiarist. What they do with that information is their own decision.

2. I don’t like the writing. I’ve got way too many books to work my way through that I just don’t have time to waste my time on books whose writing, for whatever reason, make me want to bang my forehead on the closest desktop. This is usually due to poor grammar usage, and if I get annoyed by poor grammar, it is beyond poor. (There’s a reason why I have crit buddies and they save my bacon every time.)

For the record, reason #2 is usually enacted after a series of disappointments with regular reads. I will then move them to the “get them from the library” list if it’s a series I’ve been invested in. If the writing continues to irk me, I’ll just give up on it altogether.  For most authors who are BSC, 99% of the time, I wasn’t aware of them before they went BSC so I’m not likely to have been invested in them enough to buy in the first place.

Trial76 - Yeah, I just hit the delete key on a too snarky comment.

Maybe my first comment didn’t go through?

I’m not sure about where my never buy line is so I can’t answer that question. I’ve bought books from obnoxious self-righteous authors and I’ve also bought books from authors whose views I don’t see eye to eye with. Maybe all that matters to me is the writing itself. That might not be true in all cases. If I do get hooked to an author, I fall very hard for him/her, which brings me to this comment.

aninsomniac said on…
02.09.09 at 09:10 AM

Ohhh, I totally forgot to mention the Dresden files by Jim Butcher. His sexist character, who is so obviously channeling his own views (according to me at least) put me off the whole series. I couldn’t get past book1.

Just to talk about book one…

As a reader of this series (I’m on the third book now), I highly doubt that Jim Butcher is sexist. I hate it when readers or anyone else, take cheap shots at an author when they don’t know an author personally. Maybe I’m too sensitive to this because I saw this happen to Josh Lanyon recently, and he was an author I also loved reading and interacting with. Anyway, Jim Butcher might not be sexist, but Harry Dresden (the character) most likely is sexist, by his own admission, and when it’s been pointed out to him by other characters around him.

This is a deliberate character flaw that gets him into loads of trouble and it couldn’t be more obvious that it is a flaw[/flaw]. Dresden makes a guess (a sexist guess) at who the killer might be at the beginning of the first book, and he’s wrong. (I’d actually say that about half of Dresden’s guesses/assumptions are wrong, sometimes he’s waaay more wrong than right.) He thinks that women need to be saved, and that creates more trouble for him than it’s worth because he didn’t trust Murphy. And the female characters in that book were solid and independent if anything. They’re the take-charge kind of people, even Susan the reporter (she’s the one who takes the initiative and asks Dresden out, when Dresden clearly likes her but doesn’t take the step). I really don’t think Jim Butcher is sexist.

I dunno ... I was sexually abused most of my young life and I’m bi ... so she might be half right ... or ... you know ... not.

I have weird no buy rules.  As a historian, some (okay 95%) of the sources I read/own are offensive to me personally.  But, I have to have them for the degree. 

For funzees, I refused to buy/read Mr. Anthony’s works (writer of Firefly), Catherine Coulter, and Kristian Britian. Anthony because I condones sexual assult, Catherine Coulter because her heroes rape, and Kristian Britian cause she’s kinda a dick.

On the Jim Butcher thread… (Sorry for going off topic SBTB!)

aninsomniac said on…
02.09.09 at 11:30 PM

Reg. Dresden files, as I said before, I read only book 1. So, my views are based on that. Okay, I’ll give in to the person who said I shouldn’t pin qualities of the prota on the author, but I have read reviews of his other books (Codex Alera) which also call out on the sexist plots and characters.

I was only talking about book one. I never discussed the other books in my example.

You mentioned the Codex Alera series, but we both haven’t read that so I’ll just stick to the Dresden Files.

All the women characters are either mommies, “whores” and damsels.

I’m not sure I remember any mommies, so I’ll have to double check for that one. Unless you’re talking the one mommy where she and her husband are bent on revenge because their child was killed in a cross-fire during shootings. She and her husband were equally villainous/easily manipulated because they were both power-hungry and revenge-hungry. I don’t think that’s sexist.

There are whores because the murder mystery revolves around a brothel house and a powerful mafia gang.

I’m not sure what’s meant by “damsels.” Maybe weak women? I’d have to really disagree with that. All the women main characters are superior to Dresden. Murphy is smarter and more determined and has better nerves of steel. She may also be obnoxious, but the fact remains that if she had half the magic talent that Dresden has, she’d whoop his ass any day. And Susan is much more take-risk and maybe more of a strategist than Dresden is. She walks circles around him when they have conversations. Bianca is a powerful vampire.

Secondly, I’d better specify what I consider sexist because one of the commentors does not consider the books so.

I’m assuming this is referring to what Sarah LTB said, but I want to address it anyway. She’s right. The books are not sexist. The main character is (and even in the first book, he’s called out on it and he gets in trouble for it). His opinion of women is what I’d consider chauvinistic, but Jim Butcher doesn’t let Dresden get away with that. There are consequences to Dresden’s attitude. I don’t know what clearer indication of Butcher’s personal stance is needed. This is a series. I’m assuming (and hoping) Dresden grows as a character.

Some questions to the Dresden fans (and I want to know genuinely):
Is the detective, Murphy, ever shown fighting? She is a martial arts specialist, after all. Does she ever contribute anything to the case other than the formality she can bring by being a cop? What are the number of times she has rescued Dresden vs the times he has rescued her?

I can’t answer this one completely because I’m only on book three. But yes, she does use her martial arts abilities. She’s in better physical shape than Dresden. He’s kind of skinny and gets easily winded. She does contribute to the case, but not by much because she knows nothing about magic that Dresden doesn’t tell her. And Dresden purposely doesn’t tell her a lot of things. I don’t know the number of times she’s rescued Dresden vs the other way around. At least for the first two books, she’s not trying to rescue Dresden much, just trying to arrest him because he withholds information and therefore obstructs her investigations. But she does kill a man who would’ve killed Dresden in the second book.

I am one of those people who consider any kind of (unwarranted, generic) prejudice unappealing ... Would Dresden be considered “oh, it’s a protagonist with an interesting character flaw” if he had been racist?

I wouldn’t call it an “interesting character flaw.” It’s what it is. A flaw. I don’t consider it an unusual flaw either. There isn’t a single person on earth who doesn’t have a twinge of sexism, racism, bigotry buried in their hearts, whether you’re aware of it consciously or not. All we can do is try to make sure that we acknowledge it’s not a good attitude to have, try not to let it show through in what we say and in our actions, and try to change that way of thinking.

And in the case of this book, it just happens that Dresden let his subconscious need to protect the women around him affect his judgment. I’m going to stick around for the series to see him work past that. And yes, I would say the same if were racist. I’d want to see him get past that.

I can understand how you might be turned off by Dresden’s attitude. And I’m not trying to convince you to like the series. I just wanted to point out that yes, you’re right, Dresden is sexist; no, that does not mean the author is sexist. And it’s inconsiderate and rash to accuse him of something as serious as sexism based on just one book that I don’t think you even finished. I could be totally wrong on this one and please correct me if I am. It just seems almost impossible for you to have read it and not see that Dresden doesn’t get off the hook. He solved the case, but he lost Murphy’s trust at the end of the book.

And this is totally turning into a rant/critical essay of the book, but I think it’s important considering the topic of the post. If we want authors to treat readers with courtesy, we should do the same. We shouldn’t go around slapping accusations on authors based on thin evidence.

Dragoness, a couple of years ago I started quite a long discussion of the term “wallpaper history” and we didn’t come up with one simple definition, but I think the short version would be that the term “wallpaper history” is a way of describing history used as a kind of backdrop in novels (so pretty clothes, big houses/castles, a good excuse for plot developments that couldn’t happen in contemporaries) but the author doesn’t otherwise integrate the history into the characterisation and plot. In a “wallpaper historical” romance you might expect to find characters with very modern attitudes, for example.

Okay, yes, writers who can’t be bothered to get the history right. I look at my list of “Do Not Buy” (a very short list, btw) and most of the entries are writers who insult history by sticking Carrie Bradshaw in the middle of it, and adding a hero who does something so improbable I can’t believe it.

BTW ladies, when I click on the link in the email, it takes me to this blog, but not to the link I’d clicked.

Oh, my God.  I just went and read the Q&A session.  Suzanne Brockmann is a *saint*.  I can’t believe how polite she was in the face of so many people showing up to post variations of, HEY, I DON’T LIKE YOUR DUMB PAIRINGS, WRITE MY FAVOURITE PAIRING INSTEAD!!!  I thought fanfic readers had epic self-entitlement, but, wow.

Also, I really didn’t think she was accusing all people who didn’t like her books of being homophobic.  I got a pretty clear sense that she was saying *some* of the people who didn’t like them didn’t like them for that reason.  And, hey, unless we suddenly woke up in a completely different, happy, shiny world, that has got to be nothing but the truth.

Weighing in rather late on this discussion:

I wouldn’t want to read or buy a book by a known plagiarist or someone who misrepresents fiction as fact or vice versa, but otherwise I think my never-buy line is rather flexible and on a case-to-case basis.

More often than not I simply lose interest in the works of a particular author rather than swearing off him or her.  I’m not all that interested in author-as-product and usually disregard or separate a writer’s personal beliefs from his/her work, unless said beliefs start to bleed into the writing in such a way as to become a distraction.  I dislike being preached to and lectured, even if I happen to agree with the views presented.  And as many here have already pointed out, authors who hold real lunatic fringe viewpoints are fairly easy to weed out, as the writing inevitably comes to reflect these views after a while.

On the other hand, I quite enjoy the poetry of Catullus and Francois Villon, even though I suspect both were people I’d have crossed the street to avoid meeting in real life.

(By the way, this applies only to fiction; if I wanted to create a Nazi character, for instance, I would have no problem reading Mein Kampf as research, even though I deplore the author and his views.)

Bottom line:  what matters most to me is the quality of the writing and the author’s ability to tell a good story.  Sorry if this post is a bit incoherent; I’m still waking up.

@job:

Me too.
Avoiding such books would seem an excellent idea.

This is judging a book on what is IN the book.

*waves back*

In an ideal world, I would judge a book based on what’s in the book.  That’s because, in the ideal world, I would have a bazillion dollars and (more importantly) a bazillion hours to read every day. In the actual world, I read between juggling day jobs and writing deadlines.  I don’t get to read 50% of the books I *want* to read anymore.  (weeps quietly)  And I still want to give a chance to authors I haven’t met yet, in hopes that I will find even more books I *want* to read.  I doubt I am alone.

So I do what everyone does when they can’t judge a book based on what is in the book:  I rely on proxies.  Sometimes it is reviews.  Sometimes it is a prior book.

In my case, of the authors who have landed on my do-not-buy list (e.g., Orson Scott Card) it is a combination of prior book + knowledge of how they view the world—in other words, I know I disagree with them, and I found the treatment of a particular subject in a book written by that author distasteful.  In other words, I disagree with them, and in the past that disagreement has showed up in fiction.  Is it a perfect proxy for a future book?  Nope.  But I have to rely on proxies.  I am not going to condemn books I haven’t read that the author has written—I haven’t *read* it, after all—but I am not going to spend my valuable money and my even more valuable time chasing after a read that I have good reason to suspect will not be satisfying.

So far, nobody has landed on my do-not-buy list purely because of the things they say online—although I suspect that an author who makes it a point to post things on her business site that I disagree with may also make it a point to slip those things into her book.

But I don’t want to condemn people who apply different proxies than I do to the authors they read.  We have to apply proxies.  None of them will be perfect.  “I didn’t like her first book” may have no bearing on how good an author’s book—in a different genre—may be, but people make that decision all the time.

As for Wagner . . . Wagner is an unholy genius.  I adore Wagner’s music, even though everyone knows Mahler is better.  But I’m not sure that this is the best example, because you don’t have to read too far into his librettos to find echoes of Aryan superiority/German nationalism and superiority.  (I say this, having grown up with a sister who was Wagner-mad, who has read everything there is to read about Parsifal.)

If you can’t hear the Ride of the Valkyries without the hojotohos casting long shadows that end in Ausschwitz, is it wrong for you to avoid Wagner’s music?  You can’t hear with any ears but your own, and if you hear things that are adjunct to the music, it’s a feature of being human, not a bug.

Put another way (and coming back to Mahler), the first time I heard Mahler’s 6th was when it was played by the San Francisco Symphony on September 12, 2001, the day after 9/11.  It’s the only performance I’ve ever gone to where people literally wept in the audience—and not just because the performance was spectacular, but because the music encapsulated everything we’d lost as a society in the last two days.  From here on out, I can’t hear Mahler6 without connecting it to that feeling of despair and a loss of innocence.  Is it “fair” to attach that emotion to Mahler?  It had nothing to do with the music, and everything to do with the context.

Art is rich, and it forms dense connections in the brain.  Not all those connections are going to be rational—but art, and especially art that survives year after year—*requires* that we attach to it those irrational moments.  Art is *never* judged solely on its own merit; it can’t be, because its merit depends so much on where it comes from, where it is going.  Art isn’t about itself; it’s about how it interacts with us as humans.  There is no vacuum to judge these things in.  Sometimes people will not be able to appreciate a piece because the context in which it was written comes attached to all sorts of spiky, dangerous things that aren’t part of art itself.

That’s what art is.

Here’s where I think we differ.  I think we both agree that *some* proxies can be allowed—e.g., reviews by those who have read the book, prior books by the author.  But what I hear you saying is that proxies based on the author’s make up that make you uncomfortable.

So, for instance, someone might say, “I don’t read books by black authors”—and we can all agree that’s a horrible thing for that person to say.

In my mind, I think our disagreement comes down to one of procedure versus substance.  That is, you’re saying, the procedure of picking based on author make up is suspect.

I think the procedure itself is okay, but that certain classes of author make-up should not be applied.  If you use a bigoted, racist way to exclude authors, you’ll end up with a bigoted, racist choice of books.  It’s the substance of the proxy that determines whether it’s okay—not the very nature of using author make up itself.

In short, I don’t blame people who choose bigoted, racist proxies because they end up reading books that were chosen in a bigoted, racist manner.  I blame them because they are bigoted and racist.  This may be a very fine line to draw in the sand, and I can already feel it obscuring in all this blowing wind, but that’s kind of how it shakes down on my end.

@ Ms Manna:  Word.

I do have to wonder, though, if there is any overlap between people who say “My DNB line is where the woman falls in love with her rapist” and those who say “I’ll no longer read SB because she deceived me about Decker and Sofia.”

Because I read that whole story arc as an explicit refutation of the rapist fantasy.

I didn’t care much for DON because I’ve never liked Sofia and Dave is a doormat, so the triangle left me cold.  But not as much as the “You betrayed the Glittery HooHah trope!” does.

My Never Buy list is usually based on really bad writing but really egregious behavior by the author can trip it too. LKH and Stephanie Meyer are on my list for poor writing and ego-tripping. I don’t tend to look up anything on an author unless I’ve really enjoyed their work and want more, so that limits my exposure to online drama.

On the Jim Butcher / Dresden Files line - I’ve read all of the books in the series so far and I can say that while Harry certainly starts off a bit chauvinistic in the first books, he seems to grow out of it. Murphy and [other female characters I won’t name to avoid spoilers] quite frequently kick-butt and take names. Harry is mostly a guy who doesn’t get laid nearly often enough and gets into far more dangerous situations than you’d think plausible. The Dresden Files are on my auto-buy list.

I also sincerely doubt Butcher himself is sexist; I’ve teamed with him on an online game and lurked on his website for years and not seen anything that indicates he’s not a pretty cool guy.

Continuing the off-topic subject of Butcher, so skip if you aren’t interested…

I’m baffled by the notion that Butcher is sexist. Of course, I live in West Texas and guys open doors for me all the time.  I’m cool with that.  I’m a feminist, and am often frustrating by young women who think there is no longer any gender bias—well, they’ll learn, but the hard way.  But opening doors does not push my feminist buttons.  Nor does Butcher.

I’ve read all the books.  Love them, recommend them.  IMO, the female characters start out kind of flat; it’s the one problem I have with the series.  But not flat in a sexist way—flat in an “a guy wrote these books” way.  Fortunately, the gals develop as the series proceeds.

Back OT for a moment:  loved Courtney’s post about art and the “spiky, dangerous things” that come attached to it Beautifully stated.  We aren’t all going to respond in the same way or use the same proxies because we each bring a different context to the work.  And that’s okay.

Eileen

Last Jim Butcher/Dresden files comment from me (I swear!): Okay, I will retract my statement on Jim Butcher being sexist, because I do agree that I cannot take a sum total of one book and get a character profile of him right.

However, I still believe that the Dresden Files are completely chauvinistic in tone. Perhaps my sexism threshold is way low. I do want to say that when I was in high school, I LOVED this character from a book (Sean Murphy from Terminal by Robin Cook) even though he was a total MCP and treated the heroine horribly. I thought he was cool and whatnot. When I re-read it some years ago, I couldn’t stand the bugger. And I couldn’t understand how I could have ever liked him. However, I have a friend who still likes him. It’s her choice and that is cool. So, it’s going to be the same for the Dresden files and its protagonist for me, I’m afraid. The construct of the female characters are just not good enough for me (that is, their description vs their action/behaviour).

I did read the one book but it was such an excruciating process I skimmed through most of it. Don’t care to repeat it.

-anin

Purely as a datapoint in the Butcher thread: his wife, Shannon K. Butcher, is now writing paranormal romances (the first, says her Web site, is due out in a few months).

Extremism will often push me over the line.  Too often, those who go to the extreme to defend their stance get insulting.

This has nothing to do with homosexuality, gay rights…it’s just about extremist views in general.

I’ve run into some extremists from both sides and they are the sort of people I basically don’t want anything to do with, and it has nothing to do with their beliefs, their passions, their lives…it has to do with how they express themselves.

No matter how justified their beliefs and passions are, when you get lost in the extremism and lose objectivity, you become insulting.  Too often people lose sight of the fact that others may or may not agree with you.  Too often you don’t see that just because somebody disagrees with how you SAY things doesn’t mean they disagree with what you are saying.

So extremism will, and has, turned me off of some authors.  Insulting behavior will turn me off. 

Somebody’s religious beliefs, political beliefs, societal beliefs won’t make me stop reading their work.  How they live, what they believe, whether they are democrat, republcan, or a blue man from the red planet doesn’t make any difference to me. 

But if they act in a way that is belittling to others or insulting or cruel, that will turn me of their writing.  Real quick.

The most jaw dropping moment for me was the TENT PEG quote from Anne McCaffrey closely followed by Anne Rice’s batshit crazy religious freakout and finally the LKH-TMI white trash hall of fame entry.

Now any and all of these writers do have books that I like and have read and I totally get why people read them. I myself would not recommend using them for any type of example of great writers in history so I just put them on my handy dandy THE CRAZY AUNT ETHEL IN THE ATTIC LIST.

THE CRAZY AUNT ETHEL IN THE ATTIC LIST is something shared like a wink and a nudge with other readers who totally understand we might discuss the “author in question"s early writing that made them bestsellers but we know better than to actually take them or their actions in public seriously. I think it adds something to the typical humdrum book review when you can add a quote about TENT PEGS.

I have very few authors on my NBL, and most of them I haven’t read in years.  Like Cassie Edwards (hey, I was 12!  I didn’t know any better!) or Anne Rice.  Or they are authors I used to adore, but the books now read like they were written on an assembly line by stoned ghostwriters instead of by the original author.  This is why I quit buying Stephanie Laurens.

A few are on my buy-in-mass-market-paperback only.  Like the one who was cold and dismissive when I met her at RWA.  Most authors were very friendly but she wasn’t.  I used to buy her in hardcover but decided she didn’t deserve that much of my money.

The rest of my authors I buy in a variety of formats.  And I’ve discovered my library is a great place to get hardbacks at a reasonable price when they sell their leased books.  I got Agnes and the Hitman for $3 when the paperback came out.  Score!

Just my two cents.  Your mileage may vary.

P.S.  My spamword is ‘your28’.  I sure wish I was!  :)

Suz said:

Does anyone wish we could revert to when books were bought by a familiar author’s name, cover art, genre, word of mouth, jacket copy—whatever caught the eye/imagination—and the author’s personal life, politics, religion, ad nauseum, were blissfully neither at issue or known?

I think it’s worthwhile to consider the role that technology plays in this equation.  Before the internet, blogs, messageboards, websites etc. existed, the only reader/author interaction which was remotely feasible was for the reader to write a fan letter, take a class, or stand in line to get an autograph. 

Authors are putting a lot more of themselves “out there” these days - perhaps at publisher/agent request - and while it might work as a PR… as we’ve seen from people’s stories above, such interactions can also backfire. 

As someone who is increasingly uncomfortable with the blurring boundary between what’s public and what’s private, I often err on the side of preserving privacy.  As an aspiring author, I anticipate that this attitude might cause me some problems in the future.