Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Given how few self-published authors sell more than a handful of books, I think the vast majority of the money in this case will be flowing to Harlequin and Author Solutions from authors rather than from readers.

I think it’s a bad idea, and Harlequin’s reputation (such as it is) will be harmed by this brand.

Before getting excited about this, check out ASI’s track record:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2009/01/victoria-strauss-author-solutions.html

I am just all around impressed with Harlequin and the all sorts of awesome they seem to be churning out!

Color me clueless, but as a “maybe-this-is-the-year-I-actually-finish-a-book-and-submit-it-to-publishers-author” with the start-up of Carina, why would one choose to go for the self-pub instead…is it because Carina is exclusively digital and the self-pub includes pb’s?

While we’re on the subject…is it still better to seek a lit.agent prior to sending out submissions - even to an e-pub?

I hope all this awesomesses from HQ does much to stem the negative attitude associated with e-pubs…that or roll over it in BIGCRUSHINGWAVE mwah hah ha!

Wow!  This is big news.  I mean with the proliferation of self-publishing and in some cases, leading to a regular publishing contract, Harlequin is making a bold and probably savvy step. 

A friend of mine self-published a series of books that were very successful.  That success brought her to the attention of Sourcebooks who is now her publisher.  It seems that Harlequin means to jump on the bandwagon early on or at least engage in a low risk/high reward business model.  If the self-published authors already have a platform (my friend did) and write well (my friend really writes beautifully) but perhaps might get lost in the traditional publishing channels, then Harlequin skips the part where they come in late after the author/book has proven that they can drive sales and build an audience.

I think it’s genius. 

Would I want to do it myself?  No, not yet, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s a brilliant idea and an equally bold and strategic move.

Jesus Christ on a pink pogostick.  $360 for a one-page press release?  $600 to buy a review somewhere (which might not even get published!)? $479.00 plus $29 *a month* to create and host an author website?  Oh, but a mere $90 to get into Google Booksearch and Amazon Search Inside (and another $90 for Barnes and Noble!).  I guess that’s supported by the $8,399.00 it costs for the six week publicity package.

Crikey.  If I had that kind of money to throw around, I wouldn’t need to sell any books.

$342.00 for a 1700 word sample edit.  $204 for US copyright registration. Dude.

Nice money if you can get it. Actually picking up any new authors is just going to be gravy on top.

*koff* I have a knitting Etsy shop, and can make you some socks if you like…there’s nothing in the shop right now, because I’ve only been taking custom orders.  madberry.etsy.com.
Okay, shameless plugging done now.

Great way for them to make money in a down market. Nothing against self-publishing but I think they are deluding their brand.

The vast majority of self-publishing services are essentially parasites on the hopes and dreams of aspiring writers.

This one, by dint of its connection with Harlequin, is worse: because now it will make people believe that at the low, low cost of $599 (more, if you want to sell anything), they may be able to get an Actual Publisher interested in their work. It’s an audition, if you will, at a huge cost in terms of promotion.

This actually makes me feel sick to my stomach.

I also don’t see how this can be “ground breaking” when Harlequin is the second publishing house to partner with ASI. And I think it is an insult to Angela James, Carina, and DRM-free content to mention them in the same sentence as self-publishing.

Yeah, I’m not thrilled. A brilliant financial move for Harlequin (I’m sure Torstar is rubbing its hands in glee) but the potential for author exploitation is worrisome.

Writer Beware’s post on Thomas Nelson’s recent deal with ASI has some rather prescient comments, given this news.

Dear Anonymous,

I take exeception with your comments. We’re thrilled to be partnering with Harlequin on this project. Tens of thousands of authors have realized their publishing goals with an Author Solutions brand. Self publishing has become a popular option for an increasing number of authors who have struggled for years to bring their stories to the marketplace.

I would encourage you and all readers , to contact me directly with any questions or concerns you have about this partnership.

Best,
Kevin A. Gray
Author Solutions, Inc.
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

So, let me get this right: HQ has affilliated themselves with the “pay-to-play” market? Wish I was the proverbial “mouse in the corner” at RWA headquarters right about now.

Kevin, I take exception to your thrill.

Those tens of thousands of authors generated work that was deemed unworthy of publication—in most cases, by more than one agent or publisher. Yes, a small percentage of your authors go into self-publication with full knowledge and don’t have any illusions about their books’ legitimacy in what you call “the marketplace.” But most of them refuse to see the forest for the trees.

There is a reason those stories “struggle,” as you put it.

If people who write unpublishable books want to spend their own money to put them between shiny covers, then they’re entitled. But when Harlequin attaches its name to this process, it disappoints me beyond measure. And it makes me see your gleeful, arrogant thrill as nothing more than arrogance.

I hope this blows up in the face of everyone involved.

Sorry, I agree wholeheartedly with Nobilis and Anonymous. I am totally shocked that Harlequin would dilute its brand and take advantage of writers in this fashion.

Kevin A. Gray, I have some questions for you. Of those “thousands of authors” who’ve used your service to print their books, how many of them have sold over, say, 75 copies? To people other than themselves, I mean. (75 is the average number of copies a self-published book sells, if memory serves.) Also, how many copies did your best-selling title sell, and did it remain with you or did the author move on to a commercial publishing house? 

What were their “publishing goals”? Because most writers I know don’t have “sell copies of [their] book out of [their] garage and personally beg local bookstore managers to stock it” as a “publishing goal.”

What is the typical price of your books? Are they trade paperbacks, like most print-on-demand titles? Are they POD, or do you do print runs, and how much do you charge writers for those?

What is the distribution system you have in place for these books?

How many of those books have made it into bookstores? How much did the writers of those books pay for your services, and what did they get in return? Do you have an in-house sales/marketing staff who will push your books to buyers, which is really the only way books make it into bookstores nationwide (and is something commercial publishers do for free, in addition to paying authors for their work)?

Do you have any evidence that your “marketing packages” make any difference in sales at all?

I’m with you, Anonymous. This makes me ill. With all the work so many of us do to teach aspiring writers how publishing really works, and that they deserve to be paid for their work rather than the other way around, and that writing is a craft which must be learned and practiced…all this does is set more new writers up to lose money and have their dreams crushed. How many of them will see this and fall for the sales pitches of self-publishers, when their books could have earned them money rather than cost them, and could have led them into a real writing career?

And NO, this is not the same as legitimate epublishing.

I’m so disappointed in Harlequin, and in any major house that does this.

Wow, really?  So, do they lose their RWA affiliated publisher status now?

Yeah, I’m fairly eager to see the big RWA back-pedal that must be coming.

Is this self publishing (where author keeps all rights, monies, etc while hiring others to do things like create formats or covers) or vanity publishing (where author pays to get a book in print while also giving up rights and monies to the printer)? I didn’t see a contract anywhere on the new website.

Either way, I’m sure Harlequin won’t be the second publisher (saw something about Nelson on Writer Beware) to “leverage” their thousands of rejects into revenue.

Awesome.  The more options the better for everyone, I think. 

I went to the site and no where does it make promises of book sales, contracts or make mention of anything to prey on the hopes and dreams of authors.  They’re offering a service that some will think is worth the price and others won’t. I imagine they’ll do well with it too the same way wedding planners, travel agents, personal shoppers and real estate agents do well with the services they offer.  It’s a solid business model not a scam.

Just watching the back and forth in the comments here is incredibly educational for me. I am new to all of this, have yet to ever try submitting anything anywhere, so have yet to be rejected, accepted or fill in the blank. I most certainly have no intentions of going the self-pub route now (or maybe ever) but it’s clear that the publishing world is changing and the more options available to authors the better, I suppose.
However, reading the responses, I realize how HQ’s new self-pub offer could take advantage of a writer…though in my book if you don’t do your research before writing a check, you deserve what you get. Someone posted some excellent questions and I am interested to see the answers.

My “real job” is teaching children’s theatre - and one of the first things I tell parents is to never pay an agent to help make their kid famous or fall for those star search contests that have huge entry fees. Like many have said, if you are good enough to make it - people will pay YOU to work with you.

I’m still flabbergasted that HQ has signed on to this.

Dear Authors, if you really, really, really want to get a book out there, any book, why not try an epublisher first. Not all are top rate, but even if you get in with a less than stellar house, you will get some form of editorial services without paying for them.

Take that information, learn from it, apply it, and keep going. Learn more with each edit or rejection form. (Because most of the editors in the eworld will provide some feedback even with a rejection.)

And yes, I understand that some houses only focus on sex, but others aren’t that way.

Or, better yet, find a set of critique partners with like-minded writing interests. Then hone your craft together and submit.

MamaNice, I just left you a message on your blog. :-)

MamaNice said: 

Like many have said, if you are good enough to make it - people will pay YOU to work with you.

This may be it in a nutshell.  They’re going after those aspiring authors who are tired of submitting, tired of getting rejected, and who might simply be willing to pay someone some $$$ to finally get their words between two covers. 

I imagine there is a market for this.

Dear Kevin,

I’m the first Anonymous.

I have no problem with the concept of self-publishing, but if you think offering a $3900 “personal media valet” package here: http://www.harlequinhorizons.com/Servicestore/ServiceDetail.aspx?ServiceId=BS-6175 to a self-published author who can’t even get their book in most Barnes and Nobles is doing anything other than preying on hopes and dreams, you are as delusional as your authors.

That is wasted money. If you don’t think so, then give up the statistics so people can make an informed choice—of the people who purchased that package, what kind of sales did they get? How many of them came close to selling enough books to justify the price tag?

Put up the information, or shut up about the “opportunity.”

I do freelance editing and book design in addition to my day job (I have 15+ years of experience in both magazine and book publishing, just FYI), and all I can say is, wow, these prices seem really high.

The next time someone gives me crap about a quote on their project, I think I’ll send them over to the Harlequin Horizons site and open their eyes a little bit to what these services can cost at a big outfit. ;-)

Secret word: market48. Guess the people at HH think the market can support $4,800 book packages!

So if I were, with eyes open and fully aware of my responsibilities and risks, to take the Horizon option, how is that in any way detracting from another writer’s experience?

It’s the line about “eyes open” that is where the anger stems from. ASI in particular I think specifically deludes its authors as to the possibility of reward, and provides no statistics for people to form their own profit/loss statement in their mind. It appeals to peoples wants and fears, rather than laying it out in a business-like manner. That’s what makes it predatory.

For me, it’s personal because there are people near and dear to me who have been burned, particularly by ASI. Should they have done more research? Yes, I definitely think so.

I have no problem with self-publishing, or with authors spending $ on promotional dollars. But in my mind ASI is barely one cut above “Hello, my name is Dr. Nginrina, and I am the former bank treasurer of Nigeria.”

Through this strategic alliance; all sales, marketing, publishing, distribution, and book-selling services will be fulfilled by ASI; but Harlequin Horizons will exist as a division of Harlequin Enterprises Limited.

I’m appalled by the improper use of semi-colons. One hopes this does not represent the quality of the Harlequin editing services.

There was a pertinent tweet yesterday from Paper Tyger, a former Bantam editor with 11 years of experience:

papertyger the slush pile: it’s way worse than you think. imagine textual Regretsy - 99.9% misguided, incompetent, or obviously insane.

I don’t know why we (or Harlequin) would expect self-published books to be any different. Yes, there will be gems. But I can’t help but wonder if the prospect of digging out that .1% is really worth the dilution of Harlequin’s brand with the inevitable tremendous load of dreck.

I published a book through this company and have to say that they took pretty good care of me. I haven’t made my initial money back, but I don’t necessarily expect to either. Some people spend $1000 on golf clubs or quilting fabrics and a sewing machine or paints and canvas. I spent my hobby (writing) money on getting my book published. How is that a scam? I got what I paid for. My salesperson was really upfront and honest. He said that I need to market my book myself if I want to succeed and I do that. I’ve sold just under 100 copies in three years, which is pretty good I think.

The people who get burned are the ones who are so deluded that they think that they will become bestsellers. And these people are the ones who will yell SCAM faster than anyone else. They just don’t listen to what the company is actually saying, I think. I LISTENED so I knew what to expect and I got exactly what I expected. I don’t feel ripped off becuase I didn’t make my cost back yet. Honestly the thrill of holding my own book in my own hand is worth every penny I paid.

If you know anything about what the publishing industry is going through, you know that even “real” writers (with degrees and books already published and agents and everything) are having problems getting published. The rest of us are on our own, so I’m glad that someone stepped up to offer the service for sale. If you don’t think your work is worth investing in, why should you expect anyone else to? Stupid people who have unrealistic goals may feel burned by this, but if you asked the questions and listen to the answers, you will find it’s a pretty good deal. And if you don’t think that, follow your gut and don’t sign up and give them your money. Its not that confusing.

And, btw, I’m not sure if this is self-publishing or a vanity press.  It seems to me that the “promotion package” makes it the latter (real self-publishing is when the individual actually becomes the publisher, hires the designer, printer, etc, does the promotion, and arranges distribution. It doesn’t include “distribution help” from the “publisher).  This is an opinion seconded at teddypig:

Harlequin will distance themselves from Digital Only Publishing with Carina Press but slap their “good” name all over a Vanity Imprint. Sorry, this was a totally bad business move. Ripping off writers usually is and Harlequin sold their “good” name to Author House.

The full article is here:

http://www.teddypig.com/2009/11/reader-beware-harlequin-becomes-a-vanity-press/

Sarah, I will try to answer your questions from my viewpoint. I cannot speak for others.

When you published, you had a viable product that the house thought they could sell. They paid you an advance, whatever amount, and put their team to work on it. Cover art, editorial, etc. In epublishing the advance is usually nothing, but the royalty rates are higher, just to distinguish between the two.

In either case, you as the author, pay no upfront costs. The eceteras are handled by the house taking a risk on you. And trust me, they don’t want to toss their moola into the wind in hopes you sell ten books. They plan on volume, even if they miss the mark on that estimate now and again. And they usually have more contacts to get books listed for sale than a lone author. Not always, but most often.

But if you want to self publish, no criteria exists. If you can’t string two sentences together, it is of no matter to them. If you can’t sell more than ten books, it is of no matter to them. You paid for all the bells and whistles and that is that. They are happy.

Truth be told, in either instance you will still have to fork over bucks to promote your book. It’s the norm now.

And I agree that if you go into the Horizon option well-versed, then no harm done. To work it, an author should well versed in all the ins and outs of such a venture.

The reason why many of us are up-in-arms is because the majority of newbie writers aren’t well-versed. If they pay, they will have a published book. And everything must be kosher because HQ endorses it, right? You know, that whole idea of “star” endorsement.

Why the anger? Because it’s Harlequin, who brands themselves as the largest publisher of women’s fiction in the world.

Had it been xyz press, that’s another matter. Harlequin is tainting its “real” authors with this.

Now a self-pubbed author, who just wants a book with her or his name stamped on it, can pay to have the Harlequin name and say, “I’m a Harlequin author!”

How long before Harlequin stops paying its regular authors advances and decides to chuck that model into the can because now they can fish out gems from their pay to publish authors?

Gag me.

No serious writer who strives for a career in the publishing industry should consider any venue that violates YOG’S LAW:

“Money always flows toward the writer.”

http://www.sff.net/people/yog/

Or its corollary: “The only place an author should sign a check is on the back, when they endorse it.”

Both from author James D. MacDonald.

$599.00 buys an awful lot of postage for sending out queries, sample chapters, and outlines. Sometimes you don’t spend anything at all, as many agents will look at e-queries now.

Though I’ve been told it’s a bit out of date, this site shows just how much some Harlequin authors make on books placed in the HQ lines:

http://www.brendahiatt.com/id2.html

The lowest advance a first novel can snag for a new writer is $2,600.00 for an American Romance.

Crunch the numbers, new writers.

Should you pay $599.00 for a book that *might* sell 50 copies (if you’re REALLY lucky).

Or should you go for a $2,600.00 check that puts a pro sale solidly on your resume and decisively opens the door for additional book deals?  For pro writers it is not about selling ONE book—it’s about selling all the others they want to write.

You will also have copies of YOUR book stocked in every supermarket, drugstore, Target, Wal*Mart, Borders, and B&N across the US and Canada.

That should be a no-brainer.

The HQ announcement says “possible pickup” of one’s title for its “traditional imprints.”

“Possible” is the key word! Look up the definition. There is no guarantee that will ever happen.

If you have amazing sales in the thousands, then hell yes, they’re going to check you out, but as has been stated above, most self-pub books don’t sell well, if at all. If you unload 50 copies, then consider yourself VERY lucky indeed.

I *can* see that this self-publishing venue will serve better for already published writers wanting to get out-of-print titles in front of readers again, but there are lower-cost services for that. Heck, you can upload a book for nothing on Lulu!

One may buy 10 ISBN numbers for 275.00
http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/us/isbn-fees.asp

And electronically file for copyright registration for 35.00
http://www.copyright.gov/docs/fees.html

Compare those costs to the ones offered on the HQ site.

Here’s what author Patricia Simpson did with some of her previously published titles:

http://www.patriciasimpson.com/articles/publishing.aspx

It cost her some cash, but she’s gradually getting it back.

Please note that she’s pro-published with a wide readership base, not a first-timer.

A neo hoping to match her numbers with a first novel should not expect to do it.

She also states at the end of the article that she will shop her next book around to the New York houses BEFORE she considers self-pubbing it.

Mama Nice—If you can get an agent, do so, but I do not think a *good* one will be shopping books to e-houses, since they tend to pay on royalties only, not writing you an advance check against royalties.  With very few exceptions e-books are generally not considered to be a pro-credit.

Also, it is a rookie mistake to shop a book to e-houses and small presses. Most e-pubs don’t pay an advance, and for some books the advance is the only money you’ll ever get.

Some small presses may be wonderfully reputable, but they don’t pay much and have to be VERY picky since they have high overheads and low profits. Some print less than a dozen titles a year, compared to big houses who print 100s.

When shopping your book you ALWAYS start with the biggest publishing house you can find and work your way down. They are in a better position to take on new writers.

You never know—they might LIKE your book!

I’m asking honestly, without rancor or sarcasm: why is this making you angry, if you’re pissed off?

Hey, Sarah. I would never suspect you of asking that question with anything but honesty and a lack of rancor or sarcasm, and I’m going to do my best to answer it, so bear with me, please. :-)

I understand that source of your anger, clearly, from the perspective of having spent time educating aspiring authors on the intricacies of publishing. But why does this make you and others so angry?

It makes me so angry for several reasons. One, yes, from the perspective of helping aspiring authors, many of whom did not see the warnings until it was too late and ended up hurt and broke, with their dreams destroyed, because they were promised they’d get to be “Published Authors” only to find they weren’t, not really. People who spent lots of money above and beyond printing costs to promote a book readers couldn’t find. People who tried to get their books stocked in bookstores, as they’d been told they could do, only to have the employees inform them it was never going to happen. People who thought this was the way it worked and discovered it wasn’t. People who got out of their vanity contracts and tried to sell the book to a commercial publisher only to find their first publication rights were gone. People, some of them talented, who gave up because of it, who lost years of their lives and thousands of dollars.

But there’s a larger reason as well, which I’ll get to in a bit.

The experience of publishing a book taught me that I must expect to pay for some of the effort of marketing, publicizing, and basically selling a book after it’s been produced. Yes, we received an advance. But I paid for travel, promotional items, and other expenses after the book came out.

Of course. We’re expected to shoulder some of those costs these days, you’re exactly right. But every dollar you or I spent or spend on promotion is backed up by the fact that our publishers actually get our books into stores, through their sales force. They get us table or endcap placement. They get us mentioned in bookseller newsletters. They ask popular authors in our genres to blurb the books to get us more attention. They put us in newsletters people who read our genres actually read, because the publisher puts the weight of its reputation behind it. A reader hearing about our book can go out and buy it in a store, for a reasonable price, and it will appeal to them because they have a pretty good idea what they’re getting.

If I were to write another book, even with a contract from an established publishing house, I’d likely pay for an editor who works for me, not the publishing house - because with the cutbacks and layoffs inside publishing, for every one editor there may be 10 or more books, to say nothing of the possibility that the editor who has my mythical book now may not be the same editor who bought it. The environment within and around publishing is such that as a prospective author of a book, I would want to have more oversight into the editing and production of the book.

This is where you and I disagree. I know all about changing editors; I lost my original editor at Del Rey when Random Houses made its cutbacks late last year(?) and yes, had some extremely tense and nervous days before discovering I was lucky enough to have been given a new editor who loved my books just as much as the original one had. It’s stressful and confusing and flat-out terrifying, absolutely.
But I wouldn’t hire an independent editor, because I believe as a professional writer self-editing is my job. And I’ve never felt pressured into making edits I didn’t want or carrying my books into areas where I didn’t want them to go. I’ve never felt I couldn’t voice my opinion to my editor(s) or that I don’t know what’s happening with my book, or that I can’t ask questions. My writer friends have all had the same experience.

I write fiction; you write non-fiction, and you know I admire your work as a writer. The two worlds are a bit different, so I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that as a fiction writer I wouldn’t go that route. (Incidentally, for non-fiction self-publishing can be a much better bet. I don’t have an issue with self- or vanity publishing per se, I just believe it’s harmful for fiction writers and readers, for reasons—the Big Reasons—I’m about to discuss.

This is one hypothetical experience, but it’s not uncommon. So if I were, with eyes open and fully aware of my responsibilities and risks, to take the Horizon option, how is that in any way detracting from another writer’s experience?

It’s not just writers. It’s readers. I did a couple of blog posts about this a month or so ago, actually, and here’s the gist of my problem with self-publishing for fiction, especially as it relates to the possibility of such being this Great New Horizon in publishing:

When self-publishing becomes the only option, only the rich will be able to publish. When publishers can make more money taking cash from aspiring writers than by selling books to the public, writers and readers both suffer. Writers who can’t afford to publish will be lost, or we’ll have to go back to the 18th century model and whore ourselves out to rich “patrons” who might agree to pay for our publishing—not pay us, but pay to produce the books themselves.
Imagine a world where the only books on the shelves are those written by people with enough money to pay to have them published. Very little quality control, no attention paid to whether or not the book is actually worthwhile. How much fun will reading be then?

From my blog:

We’d have books written exclusively by those who could afford it. Much like in the 18th century, when so many books were diaries of some peeress’s trip through Europe with titles like, “My Gleanings.” FUN. I know I can’t wait to read books written exclusively by the wealthy, with no viewpoints other than their own. I’m sick of hearing what baby boomers think already; I can assure you I don’t want to read more of their “Gee, the sixties were sooo great!” back-patting. I know I can’t wait for a world where books written by those from other cultures have no chance to be translated into English and released here, when we become even more ignorant of the lives of those in the world outside because there’s no way to get their books in front of English-speaking audiences. Oh, and of course, given that self-published books tend to be much more expensive, thanks to POD technology, I can’t wait for a world when reading and books are even less available to the poor. When they don’t have the same opportunities thanks to their inability to get hold of books.

Oh, what’s that you say? Oh, right. The internet will provide all of that. Of course. Because I know when I want something to read I’d much rather spend hours and hours slogging around online looking for something decent than just go to a bookstore. I know people who can’t afford books totally have the money for laptops and ereaders and the internet. So in seeking to democratize literature, what you are actually doing is STEALING IT from those less fortunate than you.

We’d also have a lot more unreadable books. I’m sorry, but it’s true. For every excellent work of self-published fiction–and they are out there, make no mistake–and for every one that’s not bad, just not terribly polished or professional or interesting, there are dozens of horrible ones. Really.

Let’s not forget that the way most people learn proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling isn’t through school. I mean, we do learn those things at school, but we develop those skills by reading. So you tell me, how literate will we be as a society when there are no professionally written books? When there are no people to judge if a work is even readable or not before it gets published? When anything goes? Would you like to go back to the middle ages, when words were just spelled however they sounded? Because I wouldn’t.

To go back to my original question: why the anger?

The anger is because I love books. I love reading. I love writing. And I don’t want to see those pleasures—and I’m not exaggerating when I say there have been long periods of time in my life when they have been my ONLY pleasures—disappear.

It won’t happen overnight. I hope it won’t happen at all. But this is, IMO, a huge step in the wrong direction, toward a future where books are irrelevant. To me, that’s a future without hope.

I am sad, very sad because i think many authors who could be better, do better, and have real writing careers might get diverted by the perceived value of the Harlequin brand into this kind of package—in which the great majority of authors do not even end up in the black, and their books essentially go unread. 

They make no promises but neither do they say that their avergae sales figures are almost certainly in double-digits.

Your confusion about the outrage, SB Sarah, is understandable because you’re thinking of this like a business person, looking at this as a possible way to go about self-publishing as a business opportunity.  From your perspective, there is nothing outrageous about this proposal, since you understand about marketing and you have a platform built in with this blog. It might be a good bet for you.

But this isn’t aimed at you. It’s aimed at Jane Book-of-my heart, who doesn’t see beyond having her name on a Harlequin book.

Look at the phrasing here. Dare to dream. Achieve your dream of being published. The sad fact is that self-publishing carries a taint for a reason. Too often it trades on people’s artistic dreams. People with no head for business, no idea what kind of time and money output is going to be required for this to be anything other than a costly venture.  There are many many writers who will pay out their money certain they will be that .1% that is “discovered” by Harlequin and brought into the fold.  It’s not wise, it’s not logical, but that’s the type of person on whom self-publishers make their bucks.

I mean, we’re ALL already pinning our hopes on being the next Roberts, King or Rowling, all playing the lottery of first getting in front of the right editor with the right project at the right time.  However, in traditional publishing models, no one is making money off of our unpublishable submissions. We’re only out our time, and some ego points. In this case, the enterprise stands to make a substantial profit off of someone’s “dream” of writing a Harlequin novel.

PLUS… Romance writers are already struggling against the stereotype of “oh, anyone can write one of those books.”  I hear this all the time. “If I ever wanted to get rich quick, I’d just dash off a couple of those trashy romances and make easy money.”  This makes it literal:  Anyone with cash can get their name on a book with “Harlequin” on the cover.

What Stacia said.

And there’s also the inherent cruelty of the copy on the site. “Have you always dreamt about being the center of attention at a book signing event featuring you, the published author? If so, then the Marketing Plus Package is for you.”

REALLY? A self-published book will make someone the center of attention at a book signing event? Not in any actual bookstore I’ve ever been in. Most won’t even order the books. For this to happen, they’ll need to pay for their own venue and throw a big party. Maybe they have the resources to do this—and that’s fine. But it’s not what’s being described above. Additionally, if this is what the prospective author wants, there are other services that can assist with it, and at far less cost.

I’m traditionally published and I’ve had my share of signings where I wasn’t even remotely the center of attention. I was confused for the coat check, information, and customer service tables, but not center of attention. I think the whole site encourages unrealistic expectations. It’s not a way to buy the dream, just the fastest way to an empty bank account and a broken heart.

Everything that Stacia Kane said. Wow. Excellent posting! Brilliant and insightful.

Anna J. Evans

(Sorry, everyone. I don’t mean to take over the comments section here. I’m just very passionate about this subject.)

@Shana:

I published a book through this company and have to say that they took pretty good care of me. I haven’t made my initial money back, but I don’t necessarily expect to either. Some people spend $1000 on golf clubs or quilting fabrics and a sewing machine or paints and canvas. I spent my hobby (writing) money on getting my book published. How is that a scam? I got what I paid for. My salesperson was really upfront and honest. He said that I need to market my book myself if I want to succeed and I do that. I’ve sold just under 100 copies in three years, which is pretty good I think.

Those are fairly decent sales for a self-published book, yes, and I congratulate you. And I’m glad you feel it was worth losing money, and that you viewed this as a hobby. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I’m genuinely pleased to hear you’ve had a satisfactory experience.

I also don’t believe anyone here has called this a “scam.”

The people who get burned are the ones who are so deluded that they think that they will become bestsellers. And these people are the ones who will yell SCAM faster than anyone else. They just don’t listen to what the company is actually saying, I think. I LISTENED so I knew what to expect and I got exactly what I expected. I don’t feel ripped off becuase I didn’t make my cost back yet. Honestly the thrill of holding my own book in my own hand is worth every penny I paid.

Here’s where I find myself a bit offended. It’s not “delusional” to write a book and believe it could sell to the public in great numbers, and it’s not fair to call the authors of such books names. Especially not when Harlequin itself uses language like:

Titles published through Harlequin Horizons will be monitored for excellence and retail potential for possible pick-up by Harlequin’s leading traditional imprints.

I can tell you that were I a newbie, just starting out, and saw THAT, I’d be thinking this was a way to bypass the slushpile, with its year-long waits. That my book would be the one that Made It. Did someone read you that line before you self-published? I’m guessing no, from your comments here, but I’m perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong.

Am I delusional? Well, I’ve thought a few of my books so far were good enough to be commercially published, and guess what. I was right. Not everyone who dreams of being a professional writer is delusional.

If you know anything about what the publishing industry is going through, you know that even “real” writers (with degrees and books already published and agents and everything) are having problems getting published. The rest of us are on our own, so I’m glad that someone stepped up to offer the service for sale. If you don’t think your work is worth investing in, why should you expect anyone else to? Stupid people who have unrealistic goals may feel burned by this, but if you asked the questions and listen to the answers, you will find it’s a pretty good deal. And if you don’t think that, follow your gut and don’t sign up and give them your money. Its not that confusing.

Yes, publishing is a difficult business. Always has been.

But again, I take exception to the idea that anyone who thinks their work has wide commercial appeal, and believes the lines on the HQ website, is “stupid.” Publishing is a confusing business. There are a lot of people out there spreading as much misinformation about it as they can in order to line their own pockets. It’s not “stupid” to fall for a line like “Titles published through Harlequin Horizons will be monitored for excellence and retail potential for possible pick-up by Harlequin’s leading traditional imprints.” It’s not “stupid” to believe in oneself, or to have dreams, or to try to make those dreams come true.

I think my work is worth investing in, you bet your ass I do. But I DID expect someone else to invest in it, and again, both Random House and Simon & Schuster agreed. Because I’d learned enough to know that’s how it should work and that I *shouldn’t* be expected to invest in it myself. I worked hard to get to a point where others would invest in my work. It’s not an impossible dream. It’s just one that shouldn’t cost you that much.

But seriously, guys. I COULD win the lottery if I buy enough ticketz! Iz not lie!

Massive.  Shark.  Jump.

It’s interesting to see how many people gushed without hesitation, and how many people shut up and hid, too.

Wow.  Massive mistake.  They are now a Vanity Publisher.

What if Coca-Cola started let people bottle their own soda and label it Coke Horizons?  What if 90% of those colas were horrible, as they inevitably would be?  What would it do to the Coke brand?

That’s the source of my dismay.

I can’t help but laugh that it’s Stacia K the “phone psychic” who is all up in arms about “aspiring authors, many of whom did not see the warnings until it was too late and ended up hurt and broke, with their dreams destroyed” because an adult spent money to get their book published. 

All this talk about an “empty bank account and a broken heart” just because HQ is offering a service for a fee seems pretty far fetched. I get that the authors who’ve posted here don’t like the direction HQ is taking the publishing world with this new venture but spare me the poor-stupid-author-scammed-by-harlequin outrage—I’m not buying it.     

“Stacia Kane has been a phone psychic, a customer service representative, a bartender, and a movie theatre usher.”

*Falls over laughing*

Tabetha, if you don’t believe authors will spend their last pennies, trying to make their dreams come true, you’re dead wrong.

I once read a very moving account from Sherrilyn Kenyon. They were literally down to their last few dollars, and she used it to post a manuscript. Her story had a happy ending. She’s enjoyed phenomenal success and deserves every bit of it. But what about all the people who spent their money and have nothing to show for it? It’s fine for you not to care, but don’t say it never happens.

Tabetha since when are authors or artists not allowed to take other jobs to make ends meet. Seriously if you think publishing pays enough for authors not to take other jobs to make ends meet you are sorely uninformed..What difference does it make if someone is a phone psychic an astrologer or a waiter? We all want our dreams to come true and will do what is necessary to make them happen..

The biggest issue with self-publishing is it kills a book for submitting. Most epress won’t even accept a book after it’s been self-published because once it’s out there, it’s tough to market.

Another issue is that everyone needs an editor. If you can’t afford an editor, they will not supply one…your book goes out as is. For an aspiring writer, having inferior product out there doesn’t help get contracts.

I don’t think Harlequin is trying to hurt or take advantage of authors, I think they just want to make a buck. It’s the author’s responsibility to research their options and make a learned decision. For some people, self-pubbing works.

In my experience, “customer service representative” and “phone psychic” were the same thing, if customer expectations were to be believed.

You want to know why people are truly upset by this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

It’s the same thing. Those who strive to make a profession living as a writer, not a hobby, not a seond job, but a living at it, are worried this will undercut the market and that publishers (not just Harlequin) will get so use to getting paid to produce books by authors willing to do anything to get their book out there that they’ll question why they have to pay their professional writers at all.

Of course I believe people will spend their last pennies on all sorts of things trying to make their dreams come true but what does that have to do with Harlequin offering a service?  FFS, these people are adults—they don’t need protection from themselves or Harlequin.  It’s ridiculous.

I spend as lot of time writing book reviews for self-published authors—but I still have to say this: most self-published books go unread.  They never find their readership. 

Harlequin-branded vanity publishing is like Coca-cola-branded antifreeze.  It may be lovely anti-freeze, but people are gunna get the wrong idea.

This is no huge loss to readers who will find other books by other authors.  But the author response is predictable and, I think, reasonable.

What if Coca-Cola started let people bottle their own soda and label it Coke Horizons?  What if 90% of those colas were horrible, as they inevitably would be?  What would it do to the Coke brand?

LOL Yes, THIS! Exactly!

And I’m still giggling. :)

I think self-pub serves a purpose. It’s great for cookbooks, craft books, and other non-fiction. It’s also a nice way for e-pubbed authors to offer bound collections of previously digital-only releases.

But for most self-published fiction (with a few wonderful exceptions), I tend to think “vanity” is the key word.

To the informed, discerning writer, I say go for it. If you know what you’re getting into, and you have the cash to back it up, jump on in.

But for those writers who *are* disillusioned and desperate to get their work out there, I think dangling the “maybe we’ll scout you” carrot and slapping a big name brand on it is kind of…well…cruel. Sure, it’ll get you published. But it still probably won’t get your books into the hands of the target audience you really wanted to reach in the first place. And it’ll come at a pretty significant price.

At Absolute Write, in a discussion about this issue, they’re pointing out that this isn’t self-publishing but actually vanity publishing.

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162391

Just an FYI. Now I’m going to scroll back up to read all the comments.

This looks like a very slippery slope to me.

Self publishing is perfectly fine for people with certain types of books.  Grandma’s handwritten poems and recipes come to mind.  Or perhaps I’d like to format and publish a children’s book on butterfly gardening for my Mom’s classroom.  Maybe this is just a hobby, and I’d like to have a book I can hold and I know that going in…

That can be fine.

I’m concerned because the marketing for this certainly doesn’t seem to be geared toward people with those books.

The hook of the language on the site seems to be targeting “dreams.”

Dreams can be both powerful and dangerous.  That’s all I’m saying.

There is a HUGE difference between vanity press and self publishing and the two are not interchangeable. This is a vanity press, not self publishing. Here you have a system designed to prey – yes PREY – upon authors who do not know the system or have been rejected. The wording is designed to give false hope and the belief that for $$ you can bypass the conventional system.

Not to mention some of their costs are clearly meant to cheat an unsuspecting author. $200 to copyright your book? Someone can do that online for less than $40 and it takes no real technical savvy. This entire set up is meant to bring in cold hard money to Harlequin while allowing the authors some false sense of hope and accomplishment.

I find the set up horribly misleading and cruel.
Will Harlequin next pay for spots on the New York Times Bestseller list so their authors can say that too?

Um, Tabetha, I don’t see what “phone psychic” has to do with anything.  Believe me, loops all over the place are saying what Stacia has said.

Plus, she knew you were going to say that.

So did I.

Quick, before anyone hears - what’s the Powerball numbers going to be for tomorrow’s drawing!

:D

on topic - I do not see this going anywhere but into a bad, bad, place. I don’t know if HQN is desperate for money or what, but this can’t end well.

HQN isn’t desperate for money but their parent company Torstar probably is:
http://www.quillandquire.com/blog/index.php/2009/02/26/harlequin-rakes-in-cash-for-ailing-torstar/

You don’t have to be hard up for cash to be stupid or greedy, though.

Now… does anyone else find it hysterical that the top of this blog features a massive Harlequin banner?  LOL Cus I do.

I’m sure it was unplanned, but it’s still funny.

Being a self-published author myself, I’d like to point out a basic fact about self-publishing vs. vanity publishing. And please understand that by no means does what I’m about to say apply to traditional or digital publishers in any way.

If the ISBN connected to your work is furnished by or registered to a company that you do not own, you are vanity published. Even if you personally did all the editing, cover design, formatting, marketing, promotion, or all the countless other tasks involved, and even if you retained all rights to said work, if your ISBN can’t be traced directly back to you or your own publishing company, you are not the publisher of your work.

As for the current issue with Harlequin, I’m torn. On one hand, I think it’s great that romance authors whose stories haven’t found a home could be connected in some form to such a publishing powerhouse. But on the other hand, I worry a connection as such might breed into those authors a somewhat skewed sense of entitlement, where they feel as though they should just automatically be treated like any other HQ author who followed the traditional road to publishing, be it print or digital.

Honestly, the announcement today plus all the opinions I’ve read regarding it, forces me to straddle a fairly uncomfortable line. My first novel has sold over 1,500 copies and is still selling well. I’ve been reviewed by some of the same places traditionally published authors are and received great ratings, Coffee Time Romance (5), Romance Junkies (4.5), Bitten by Books (5), Mrs. Giggles (77). So, of course, there’s a part of me that feels like I deserve at least a little of the same “legitimate” recognition a traditionally published paranormal romance author gets. After all, I’m being judged by the same standards they are.

But, in the same breath, today…I can also understand why some of Harlequin’s authors might be a little pissed. Harlequin’s reputation has always been solid, and I’m sure most of their authors chose to build their careers with HQ because of that solid reputation. But now that HQ has essentially branched out into a “pay to play” venue, what does that mean for the authors who’ve been with HQ for years? How does that decision impact those author’s reputations, or because of HQ’s irrefutable place as the top publisher of romance, the entire romance genre as a whole?

We all know that in this business reputation means everything. From the quality of your work as the author, to the finesse of your agent then hopefully editor, even down to the publisher’s name stamped on the spine of your book…reputation says it all. And while not every reader knows what company published a book they loved, many know exactly who published one they didn’t. And I think that’s the real issue here. If Harlequin starts stamping their name on books they haven’t put through the same high quality vetting process as all the other books they publish, how will their readers respond when they pick up a book that isn’t what they’ve come to expect from Harlequin? Will they do any research to find out that the Horizon imprint is just a self-publishing branch of HQ, not to be confused with any of HQ’s other imprints, or will they just assume that HQ isn’t what it used to be?

Like I said, I’m torn. As one of those authors who couldn’t find my way to NY because my characters didn’t quite fit, and in turn worked hard to make my own place in the publishing world, I’m excited that this option has opened up. But as a romance author who understands what Harlequin’s reputation means to the romance industry as a whole…I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t a little nervous.

Wow!  This is big news.  I mean with the proliferation of self-publishing and in some cases, leading to a regular publishing contract, Harlequin is making a bold and probably savvy step. 
A friend of mine self-published a series of books that were very successful.  That success brought her to the attention of Sourcebooks who is now her publisher.  It seems that Harlequin means to jump on the bandwagon early on or at least engage in a low risk/high reward business model.  If the self-published authors already have a platform (my friend did) and write well (my friend really writes beautifully) but perhaps might get lost in the traditional publishing channels, then Harlequin skips the part where they come in late after the author/book has proven that they can drive sales and build an audience.
I think it’s genius. 
Would I want to do it myself?  No, not yet, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s a brilliant idea and an equally bold and strategic move.

I totally agree.  I think its a bold brilliant move that will pay off for them AND for new authors.  A win win situation in my opinion.

Interesting… I noticed Harlequin is discontinuing their manuscript critique service for “business reasons.”  Guess we know what those business reasons are now… they will charge more for it as part of this publishing package.

I said this at Dear Authors post but it’s still just some random food for thought with this discussion (Yes some of it has been pointed out here so ignore that it was not pointed out - just some two cents to add to the food for the thought) :

Another reason for the outrage that was not mentioned in the post is the fear of what this will turn the publishing world into in a broader horizon. Much like the popularity of Ebooks scared a lot of readers into thinking the local library would turn into stacks of computers rather than bookshelves, does this turn mean that publishing as an unknown or first time author will become a thing of the past unless you can afford to do so?

Another concern no one has hit yet is does this mean more rejections of even viable published works because they now stand to make more on rejecting you than publishing you? Does this mean you can write the next “better than” Meyers or Rowling only to find yourself in every slush and rejected pile out there because they want you to PAY for your chance? While at the same time your paying for your chance at fame and fortune, Barnes and Noble and bookstores across the country are LAUGHING over the phone when you ask them to stock your “chance”, readers are seeing your promotions and rolling eyes at yet, another, “self published” promotion – and you have sold 25 copies to your friends and family. It doesn’t matter what your potential once was now.

Stacia, you were a phone psychic!  That’s so cool.  Another aspect to your multi-talented specialness.

I just bought Personal Demons from the Sony store and can’t wait to read it.

(I’m not really here. Just want this conversation to come to my inbox to minimize refreshing and scrolling.)

FFS, these people are adults—they don’t need protection from themselves or Harlequin.  It’s ridiculous.

I agree that nobody needs “protection.” But nobody here has advocated for “protection.” Nobody here has said this venture should be illegal.

I think it should be legal to issue short-term loans at 300% interest rates. I think people should have the option, when desperate, to use those check-cashing quick-title-loan places. I also think that those check-cashing quick-title-loan places are scum, and I would advise everyone to stay far, far away from them unless there is literally no other way to get the money, and they absolutely have no other choice, and I support legislation that requires these people to state upfront the interest rate charged, and the charges that will be accrued over the life of the loan. That’s because information isn’t “protection” in the paternalistic sense of the word—it frees people to make valuable decisions.

Likewise, providing information—for instance, that most people who publish with vanity presses sell fewer than 100 copies of their work, notwithstanding major investments of time and money—is not “protecting” anyone. It’s stating facts so that people can walk into the relationship with their eyes open—or decide to walk away from it, if it doesn’t advance their dreams sufficiently.

Vanity publishing is legal and allowable, and nobody needs to be “protected” from it. For some tiny percentage of the population, even valuable. But like those check-cashing-title-loan places, it is for most people both predatory and scummy—and insisting that they should provide more information, rather than engaging in puffery, is not about “protecting” people from vanity publishing but allowing them to make rational decisions.

There is nothing paternalistic about the truth.

I belong to a couple of big writing lists which have everything from multi published, big name authors to beginners. You learn a lot on those lists.
On both the lists publishers and providers of services are either banned or asked to join as writers, if that’s what they do.
Often, we get brand new writers, excited at having finished their first manuscripts who ask “so how much does it cost to get published?” as if that’s the norm. So someone explains to them the differences between self published, vanity published and traditionally published.
How many other writers aren’t savvy enough to join writers’ lists or boards? How many will assume that you have to pay to be published, that a company like Harlequin wouldn’t be doing it if it wasn’t a road to success?
I’m most definitely with Stacia on this one.
“You too can be a Harlequin author. For a price.” That’ll make their authors happy. But hey, it’s all about the bottom line, isn’t it?

I don’t know a thing about corporate law, but as far Harlequin’s RWA publisher certification goes, this Horizons venture must be a separate entity from regular Harlequin. right? It must be its own thing… I’ll be curious to see how they make the books available, but I highly doubt they’d “market” them through the eHarlequin website. They’re smart bitches on a corporate level, and I have to imagine they’ve got their asses covered.

I don’t think the idea’s genius, but neither do I think it’ll be a total shit-storm. I think this will do for self-publishing what Cafe Press did for folks who want their design on a tee-shirt. Yeah, it looks streamlined, with lots of the complicated stuff taken care of on the other end, and good production value. That said, how many world-famous tee-shirt designers can you think of who were discovered through Cafe Press?

Then again, Cafe Press is a lot cheaper. Maybe I’ll publish my next book as a series of novelty coffee mugs…

Oh please, broader horizon?  Straw man alert.  I have read thousands of self-published books and support the model with my hard-earned cash by buying self-published books and ebooks.  But Authorhouse is the *last* place I would recommend for any author.  That would be more like throwing them off a cliff.  Createspace or Lulu, even Aventine or Booklocker, but not anything in the so-called Author Solutions stable.  Harlequin chose the option that makes them money and requires no input—not the best option for authors..

Doesn’t saying “Partnering with Author Solutions… is an innovative and original approach to discovering new authors to add to our traditional publishing programs.” equate to saying “You can buy a chance at a Harlequin contract through this venture.”?

No it’s not illegal, and yes authors should be smarter, but it doesn’t make me think nice things about Harlequin. It makes me think they’re being shady by feeding off authors’ hopes and dreams.

Now if they offered this service without the Harlequin name? I’d be fine with that.

Maybe I’ll publish my next book as a series of novelty coffee mugs…

Bwhahaha. 

The next-generation business model for publishing.

I just cannot WAIT to see how fast RWA will tie themselves in knots deciding which HQ imprints are acceptable and which are not.

Folks, if you want to publish something yourself, take a gander at Lulu. You’ll probably get a similar product a hell of a lot cheaper.

Of course, you won’t be able to call yourself a Harlequin author, but…

Wow, finding this online community of readers and authors is making my MONTH.  I want to thank Stacia K., the first Anonymous, New Anonymous, Ann Aguirre, P. N. Elrod, Paula Graves, JenTurner and others who have been so informative and truly caring about new authors and their dreams, and quality control and misrepresentation in the publishing industry.

I’ve always meant to finish the two half-written novels lounging under my bed, but apart from the sheer WORK of writing, getting published seemed to involve some sort of lottery-win-plus-blood-sacrifice. I think my writing has potential, but it’s not GENIUS, though it means so much to me. It is hard enough to consider sending it out to face certain rejection, without the added uncertainty of wondering if I might be taken advantage of, or somehow undervalue my creation. 

Reading well-written, logical, insightful comments at this site - with handy links no less - makes me think that I COULD find solid advice if I looked in the right places, and I want to pick up my pen and finish that novel in earnest!

Maybe I’ll publish my next book as a series of novelty coffee mugs…
Bwhahaha. 
The next-generation business model for publishing.

T-shirts (that you wear when you leave the house) would be better. Or perhaps car door / window clings. More exposure!

Ooooh, better—yard signs! You could run a whole campaign, sort of like Burma Shave, and entertain drivers on particularly boring stretches of road. On the last one have a cliffhanger and your web addy.

Hey look, I AM a published author!  I published right here!  I bet I could pay someone to go around the internet, posting links to my comment . . .

Here’s question: What incentive does this leave for Harlequin to pay its employees to dig through the slushpile—which, I believe, is where most first-time category romance authors are discovered? I understand very few sell through agents, as only a few agents rep category romance.

Why would Harlequin bother with a slushpile for category romance, when they can find the next star author among the ranks of those who have already paid for the privilege of “submitting” their books, and now couldn’t sell them anywhere else if they were dipped in platinum and printed in dark chocolate.

What’s the average advance for a first-time category author? About $3K? Let’s say a writer pays around $2K to be “published” by ASI with all its promo package bells and whistles and under the Harlequin name, and her book does well (by whatever standard Harlequin chooses to employ.)

Harlequin then plucks her out of obscurity and pays her the standard advance. So she’s got her first “traditional publishing” contract in hand—having paid $1K for it—and Harlequin has profited, both by being paid their cut of the author’s initial outlay and by getting to choose a “proven” winner.

The author, on the other hand, paid to submit to Harlequin’s own, private, profit-generating slushpile. And if they don’t like the terms, they likely won’t be able to sell the book anywhere else.

To support my theory, I’ll point out that Harlequin’s popular critique service will be closing as of December 1st.

Meh. Maybe I’m light years off. But if I’m not? Gotta hand it to ‘em. It’s a really clever plan. And by “clever,” yes, I do mean “evil.”

I belong to a writer’s group in which a few of the members have self-published. They are not dumb people. Most the people in the group, though, don’t really seem to grasp that there are, in fact, professional houses that pay you to publish your book. There is an awful lot of confusion out there, and deals like this only prey on it.

It’s okay to say that people should be more aware, but they aren’t, and this site is pretty obviously deceptive. I think it’s reasonable to be disgusted by it. Of course it shouldn’t be illegal, but that doesn’t make it right.

Before you laud this decision as the greatest thing since peanut butter spread on sliced humanity, ask yourself when was the last time you bought a vanity-published book?  Or a self-published book?  Did you walk past one in the store and think, “Hey, neat!”  Did you follow a random link and think, “Hey, neat!”  Did you see one in the return stack at the library and think, “Hey, neat!”

If not…how likely do you think that anyone else will, either?

True self-publishing is a viable venue for certain authors of certain subject matter, at certain points in their careers.  This site isn’t selling to those authors.  It’s selling to the ones who’d normally be receiving rejection letters (sometimes helpful, sometimes not) and spending their hard-earned money and time honing their craft rather than buying pixie dust.

I recently encountered a discussion I think at Dear Author where several midlisters, and folks writing multicultural romances, were dropped (by HQ) in mid-series due to low numbers.  I’m guessing these folks will very shortly receive excitable invitations to reverse the advance model and pony up for the “privilege” of paying Harlequin cash money to publish the completions of their series.

Savvy authors can do this on their own, without Harlequin’s fingers in their profits, and I hope they do.  This is a money grab, pure and simple.

And if enough people piss in a bottle and call it “Coke Horizons,” the rest of Coke will become synonymous with “piss,” too.

Linz - you don’t even have to pay the comment I posted at dear authors is already quoted in an article on this summarizing what is being said LOL

Here’s the thing: If your paying Harlequin more than the advance they would have paid you, to get their name on your book - new authors will have an even smaller chance of ever breaking into the industry the fair routes.  It’s a simple matter of money sense.  I can pay you 200.00 for your comment on this matter or you can pay me 400.00 to publish your comment on a site where everyone who’s anyone will read it.  I will always go with B and reject A if I want to make more money than I spend and stay in the red.  In addition, my readers will suffer because I no longer care if said comment was worthy of my distribution.

You know, I had seriously considered submitting to Carina Press.  I thought “Okay, it’s another viable epub, backed by Harlequin and when NY decides to open their eyes and take a gamble on my currently niche genre, I bet they might look at the authors in their own epub first to fill that demand.”  So yes, I considered submitting to Carina as a possible, maybe foot in the door to Harlequin.  Admitted.

However, if Harlequin is going to have a bunch of clueless newbs running around saying they’re HQN authors because they paid 1600 bucks for the privilege, yet HQN won’t give legitimately vetted and edited and quality-controlled epubbed books their brand name?  No thank you.  Crossing Carina and HQN in general off my lists.  Carina because I’m sick of being shat on by the big dogs and to be shat on while self-pubbed dreck gets branded by what’s supposed to be the pinnacle of this industry is beyond insulting.

What difference does it make if someone is a phone psychic an astrologer or a waiter?

—synde

Um, Tabetha, I don’t see what “phone psychic” has to do with anything.

—Chrissy

Phone psychic is synonymous with being taken advantage of and ripped off in my mind so I found it ironic considering all the—take advantage, this makes me ill, set more new writers up to lose money and have their dreams crushed, fall for the sales pitches of self-publishers, ended up hurt and broke, with their dreams destroyed, who lost years of their lives and thousands of dollars—BS I was reading. 
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=phone+psychic

Another concern no one has hit yet is does this mean more rejections of even viable published works because they now stand to make more on rejecting you than publishing you? Does this mean you can write the next “better than” Meyers or Rowling only to find yourself in every slush and rejected pile out there because they want you to PAY for your chance? While at the same time your paying for your chance at fame and fortune, Barnes and Noble and bookstores across the country are LAUGHING over the phone when you ask them to stock your “chance”, readers are seeing your promotions and rolling eyes at yet, another, “self published” promotion – and you have sold 25 copies to your friends and family. It doesn’t matter what your potential once was now.

And this is an *excellent* point. When it becomes more profitable for them to reject you than to accept you…

Nice ad hominem, Tabetha.

You do the term “forum troll” great justice.

Nice ad hominem, Tabetha.

Agreed.  So let me repeat:

“All this talk about an “empty bank account and a broken heart” just because HQ is offering a service for a fee seems pretty far fetched. I get that the authors who’ve posted here don’t like the direction HQ is taking the publishing world with this new venture but spare me the poor-stupid-author-scammed-by-harlequin outrage—I’m not buying it.”

I think everyone is adding on the “poor author” bit to pull at peoples heartstrings…not because they care. Just my opinion.

I should also put out here, considering some of the comments that came after mine, that to date - I have paid less than $500.00 out-of-pocket to publish my first novel. And that figure includes everything from the cost of registering my own ISBN’s and business name w/my state, to paying for promo materials and ads on various romance sites. To date, I have earned just over $6,000.00 in profit. Self-publishing worked for me because I easily made back every penny I’d spent, but that’s not the case for everyone. And, I didn’t take out ads or buy fancy chocolates as promo items until I’d already made the profit to pay for them.

Under no circumstances would I ever encourage a new author to spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars on publishing with any press, be it a vanity press or some other cleverly disguised self-publishing entity. You don’t have to. Period.

And I agree whole-heartedly with what others here have said, no matter which direction you go in publishing, there is absolutely no substitute for doing in-depth research. You have to take responsiblilty for arming yourself with best information available, you have to know what you’re getting yourself into, and more than anything, be able to read beyond all the promises of fame and fortune and really look at the numbers that will potentially make up your bottom line.
Because unless you’ve written the next “The Shack”, you’ll most likely never make back the thousands of dollars you pulled out of your bank account.

I know it sounds cheesy, but in this case, knowledge really is power.

It’s not making a publishing dream come true; it’s paying an expensive printer to put your book between two pieces of cardstock. Anyone with a bank account can do it. There’s no skill, no effort involved. It works just as well with a book that’s been through twenty rounds of revision as a book that was churned out with a robot generator on the Internet. It cheapens the Harlequin brand and the authors who put real effort into trying to get published, because most of those books are simply not ready for publication.

@Tabetha:

Phone psychic is synonymous with being taken advantage of and ripped off in my mind so I found it ironic considering all the—take advantage, this makes me ill, set more new writers up to lose money and have their dreams crushed, fall for the sales pitches of self-publishers, ended up hurt and broke, with their dreams destroyed, who lost years of their lives and thousands of dollars—BS I was reading.

I’m sorry you feel that way, Tabetha, and sorry you felt it necessary to insult my character in such a fashion because of a job I performed honestly and to the best of my ability almost fifteen years ago. (I stole a lipstick from a Kroger store when I was twelve, too; does that also mean I am unworthy to speak about publishing or have an opinion on this aspect of it?)

I read tarot cards professionally, over the phone and by email. I gave people honest readings, and honest advice. Many, many people who call those lines are in pain and just want someone to talk to or to tell them it will be okay, and for whatever reason they are not comfortable talking to people close to them or have no one close to them. I told them what the cards I laid out for them said, in as much detail as I could. I encouraged them to believe in themselves, and to work for their dreams. I encouraged them to leave abusive relationships and gave them numbers for shelters. I encouraged them to seek professional help. I reassured the woman who called twice a month to cry over the baby she’d lost to SIDS that it wasn’t her fault and urged her to speak to a professional, and cried myself every time I did so. I told them honestly that tarot cards are not infallible and that their choices were what made their lives.

If the fact that I once did that job, as honestly and as professionally as I could, infuriates and upsets you to the point where you feel I am not trustworthy and am simply spewing BS, and could not possibly believe what I’m saying or care about anyone but myself (since that is what you’re actually saying; that I’m a selfish hypocrite because at the age of 21 I read tarot cards for a few months and that makes me a liar who took advantage of people), perhaps you could listen to many of the other professional writers who’ve agreed with me, and made their own comments?

Or perhaps you could actually discuss/refute what I said on this topic. You seem to disagree with my comments, but haven’t yet really said why aside from your personal attack on me. You are of course welcome to think whatever you like of me, and to say whatever you like about me, but I think you’d do your position more good by expressing some logical thoughts or points, aside from simply saying, “Stacia Kane’s a big old hypocrite and is obviously not to be believed about anything at all because she was a phone psychic once.”

Just my opinion, of course.

So what you’re saying Stacia K is you offered a service to people who were willing to pay for it and they valued that service?  Were happy with it even? Why is that ok for you but not for Harlequin?

So what you’re saying Stacia K is you offered a service to people who were willing to pay for it and they valued that service?  Were happy with it even? Why is that ok for you but not for Harlequin

?

Because I wasn’t promising them I could make their dreams come true. I wasn’t misrepresenting myself. I wasn’t telling them that by paying the company I worked for $2.99/minute for a max 30 mins they could achieve all of their goals. I didn’t tell them spending 20 minutes on the phone with me made them professional writers, or would earn them money, or would make their boyfriends love them, or solve all their problems. I didn’t tell them that if they paid that money they would make successes of themselves or that it would get them noticed by People Who Mattered, or that they could, by making that phone call, be the Star at their Very Own Book Signing (caps for emphasis) and get credentials they hadn’t earned.

And I’m done discussing this with you. You obviously have no real points to make on this subject, and instead simply want to malign my character. Like I said, you’re welcome to do so, but I’m not responding to you any longer. If you want to talk about all the reasons why HQ’s new line is unethical and disturbing, and the implications it presents for writers and readers both, great. If not, I have nothing further to say to you, and I wish you the best of luck.

Because a phone psychic does not promise you “a chance” at becoming a Harlequin author by paying to have your book published with them.

Under no circumstances would I ever encourage a new author to spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars on publishing with any press, be it a vanity press or some other cleverly disguised self-publishing entity. You don’t have to. Period.

Exactly. I self-pubbed one novel because I had (foolishly) put huge chunks of it online, thus killing my first publication rights. OK, learned my lesson on that one.

It cost me exactly $99 to publish my book through Lulu. Now, I’m lucky because I’m a graphic designer now and have been a copy editor in the past, so I was able to take on production duties that a lot of other people have to farm out. I won’t tell anyone not to self-publish because that would make me a hypocrite, but if do your research you’ll find that it can be done economically, should you decide to go down that road.

I guess my hope is that this discussion will propagate across the internet, and that people who were considering going with Harlequin Horizons just because of the name will do more research so they can choose the option that works best for them.

Oops sorry Stacia that was such an easy one.

But they’re not promising that at all, Teddypig.  I’m sorry but I just don’t believe that any reasonable adult would read this section from their website and think that.  And frankly, if I was a new author trying to get/be published I would be insulted by this thread.  Just because people have hopes and dreams doesn’t mean they’re idiots.  And just because someone is willing to pay for something they can do themselves for less doesn’t mean they’re being victimized. 

Harlequin Horizons is a division of Harlequin Enterprises Limited, a global leader in romance and women’s fiction. The intent behind creating Harlequin Horizons is to give more aspiring romance writers and women’s fiction writers the opportunity to publish their books and achieve their dreams without going through the submission process with a traditional publishing house.

However, we understand you may aspire to be published with a traditional house – a noble aspiration. While there is no guarantee that if you publish with Harlequin Horizons you will picked up for traditional publishing, Harlequin will monitor sales of books published through Harlequin Horizons for possible pick-up by its traditional imprints.

Speaking of RWA, how is this venture different than RWA’s selling for the price of membership the dream of New York publishing, which so very few of its members will ever achieve?

Also, I’m completely confused by some of the differences articulated between fiction and non-fiction publishing. I do believe that there’s a perception held by some that fiction is more “special” than non-fiction but not sure if that’s what’s operating in some of the comments here and elsewhere.

Also, given the general disdain aimed at self-publishing, are there any circumstances under which self-publishing would be perceived as a legitimate, respectable avenue to publication?

Tabitha,
I believe it is this paragraph under their “Our Advantages” page that is offensive and misleading:

Dare to Dream: Potential Discovery Opportunities

Harlequin Horizons is a division of Harlequin Enterprises Limited, a global leader in romance and women’s fiction. The intent behind creating Harlequin Horizons is to give more aspiring romance writers and women’s fiction writers the opportunity to publish their books and achieve their dreams without going through the submission process with a traditional publishing house.

However, we understand you may aspire to be published with a traditional house – a noble aspiration. While there is no guarantee that if you publish with Harlequin Horizons you will picked up for traditional publishing, Harlequin will monitor sales of books published through Harlequin Horizons for possible pick-up by its traditional imprints. Review more benefits.

As an aspiring writer and long time romance reader, I am sad to see Harlequin lending their name to this endeavor. To lure aspiring writers who have not been fortunate enough to discover the wonderful online communities of writers who so generously share knowledge and wisdom of the craft and the industry, with the above language, is underhanded and sleazy at best.

Oh, sorry guess you had the right qoute. Must have misread, but my comments still stand.

I guess my hope is that this discussion will propagate across the internet, and that people who were considering going with Harlequin Horizons just because of the name will do more research so they can choose the option that works best for them.

JS - I’m with you all the way.

I’m not exactly the most compassionate being on the planet, and truth be told, I rarely care about what anyone else is doing unless it directly effects me or what I’m interested in. However, I do hope this discussion gets around just so no newbie author mistakes Harlequin’s name being attached to a vanity press for instant and credible success.

I expect that anyone who’s truly serious about publishing, in whatever format, would call on their own good common sense and take the time to research and learn what’s too good to be true and what’s not. And if they don’t do the proper research and end up whining about it later, I assure everyone reading this that you’d probably be able to collect the tears I’d shed over their self-imposed misfortune in an upended contact lens.

“And frankly, if I was a new author trying to get/be published I would be insulted by this thread.  Just because people have hopes and dreams doesn’t mean they’re idiots.  And just because someone is willing to pay for something they can do themselves for less doesn’t mean they’re being victimized. “

The problem is, not everyone is as brilliant as you are.

There’s a reason why author advocates like Writer Beware and the Absolute Write forum exists - to help writers avoid the sweet-talking scammers that are out there, using vague phrases and words to promise anything and take everything.

You might as well ask why any organization exists to help anyone, with that thread of logic…

I can only speak for myself, Robyn, but these are my thoughts:

Also, I’m completely confused by some of the differences articulated between fiction and non-fiction publishing. I do believe that there’s a perception held by some that fiction is more “special” than non-fiction but not sure if that’s what’s operating in some of the comments here and elsewhere.

The difference is, lots of non-fiction has a built-in audience. Say for example you’re a model train enthusiast, and have written a book on model trains. A major house may not want to take on that book, given the relatively small audience (no offense to model train fans), but if you self-published the book that audience, while perhaps too small for NY numbers, may be very interested in your book, because they’re specifically looking for books on that topic.

It’s got nothing to do with being “special” and everything to do with subject matter (and to a lesser extent, platform). A nonfic book on a niche topic with an enthusiastic group of followers/fans/enthusiasts/whatever has a shot, self-published or not. A novel doesn’t have that same built-in audience, and has tons more competition; those nonfic readers WANT to learn about that particular topic and seek out books on it, whereas fiction readers have thousands of other stories they could be reading—and those stories are on bookshelves, in stores and libraries, with the names of familiar and trusted publishers on the spines, for a better price.

Also, given the general disdain aimed at self-publishing, are there any circumstances under which self-publishing would be perceived as a legitimate, respectable avenue to publication?

See my answer above. Self-publishing isn’t illegitimate, it just generally isn’t a good choice for fiction.

@Selah March
> The author, on the other hand, paid to submit to
> Harlequin’s own, private, profit-generating slushpile.

When you look at it like that, it does have a certain evil genius to it.

(I’m honestly still boggling at anyone having the brass neck to charge $204 to register copyright.  $35 to register online, plus, say, $15 to post the deposit copies.  That’s $154 left over for Harlequin/ASI. They must pay their admins really well.)