Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Such a great album to get it all out on the table with…

Not The Doctor

I don’t want to be the filler if the void is solely yours
I don’t want to be your glass of single malt whiskey
Hidden in the bottom drawer
I don’t want to be a bandage if the wound is not mine
Lend me some fresh air
I don’t want to be adored for what I merely represent to you
I don’t want to be your babysitter
You’re a very big boy now
I don’t want to be your mother
I didn’t carry you in my womb for nine months
Show me the back door

You’ve actually hit on all the problems I have with the entire series within the space of the first book. I’m on the last one at the moment, and have had to stop reading altogether at points to keep from throwing the library’s copy at the wall.

I think the worst part for me is that I love Gothic novels and the series had so much potential, but Meyer’s style does very little for me. I’m still reading them, mostly out of morbid curiosity at this point and because they’re very quick reads, but Bella bothers me so much. That being said, I’m beginning to wonder if this is one of the few cases where the film will turn out to be better than the novel. As far as I’m aware, Meyer isn’t writing the screenplay, and it does have a very good cast, so it’s possible that all the things that bugged me about the novel won’t be an issue in the film. Although I dread the sparkly vampires.

You know, I read this book a lonnngg time ago (2-3? years? it feels like a while) and remember really liking it, but since then I’ve noticed people either really liked it or they pointed out this problem - Edward is pretty controlling and there is a disparity between him and Bella, and they really disliked it. It’s interesting. If I had this mentioned to me before I read the book maybe I would have paid more attention, but I was more into the action going on (what’s going to happen next here?) that really looking closely at their relationship. When I read it there wasn’t as much of this HUGE crazy fandom going on (that I knew about), so I didn’t have expectations either. Sometimes I think things just get so built up, when you read them just to see what the fuss is about it tends to be a letdown.  The fandom makes a small part of me eye the rest of the series in a more jaded way.. which I shouldn’t do, but still. I haven’t read past Twilight, but I have the rest of the books.

All I know about Twilight I learned from Fandom_Wank and that’s more than I ever wanted to know! D:

I haven’t read the book or even picked it up, so I have a general plot question. My understanding is that these vampires in his house all look like teenagers, so in order to blend in, they go to school. But, uhhhh… am I understanding this correctly? This really bothers me. In order to be inconspicuous, they go to SCHOOL? Couldn’t they just jazz up a few birth certificates to show they’re all eighteen and just living in a party house or something? 

Thanks for the help. This is really stuck under my skull and won’t get out! But I’m too lazy to read the book. Heh.

F.A.S., let me introduce you to F.A.K.  Formerly Angst Karen really liked this book.  It really took me back to high school and those years of obsessive puppy love (yes, I’ll admit to them).  FAK was thrilled that this moody, broody, hunk-a-burning goth obsessed about teenaged me, I mean Bella, right back.

But I’m glad this book was fast reading.  While escapism is fine for a while, FAK is actually long gone and I really couldn’t love this book due to the reasons you’ve pointed out in your review. 

I looked for and found the spoilers for the next 3 books in the series and know I will leave it at Twilight and move on. 

That being said, I might actually buy Midnight Sun when that comes out, which is Twilight from Edward’s point of view.

I keep eyeing this series in the bookstore, thinking I should read it because obviously it’s got some serious mojo since it’s so popular.  But then I look at it again and realize it is the thickness of a city phone book and it is so not going to fit in my purse…and therefore I’ll be 110 before I finish it.

And now that you tell me the hero is moody, needy and stalkerish and the heroine is channeling her inner kicked puppy.  Blah.  Two of my least favorite character types and sure to make me throw the poor defenseless book…and put a hole through my wall.

I am so glad you have taken the fall for holdouts like me who have been on the fence about this book. I am sorry for your suffering, but you have saved me and probably countless others some dough and untold amounts of icky aftertaste.  Thank you.

In case, like me, you’ve been under a rock for awhile (how’s your rock? Mine’s awesome!) and haven’t read or heard of this series…

My rock is WAY COOL, thankyouverymuch!

whatever you do, don’t search “Bella” or “Twilight” on Etsy or you’ll get so much jewelry with swans and crap you’ll want to set your eyeballs on fire.

Don’t try to search for “flair buttons” on Facebook, you’ll get 62,233 of them about Twilight or Edward or some other reference to teenaged vampires.

I hadn’t heard of this series until a few weeks ago and had no clue what all of the fuss is about.  When my pal Lisa pointed me in the direction of a review of the final book (which then pissed me off even more when I read the commenters calling this story a “glorified romance novel” with “no plot” or “intelligent heroine”), I knew this series wasn’t for me.

And since I’m afraid to even remember the ANGST I suffered as a teenager, I’m happy to leave this book on the shelf and let the rabid fans have it.

I bailed halfway through the first book.  I found Edward’s behavior to be creepy and stalkeresque, not all swoony and romantic. 

Being that so many young girls are reading this series, I start to wonder how many of them might be more apt to accept this type of domineering behavior in their first boyfriends.  And I shudder a bit.  YMMV.

You know, I really love great vampire novels. I heard the hype about this one, knew it’s supposedly geared more to the YA market. But I gotta tell ya, I have an angst filled teenager at home, who has been getting worse over the past three years, the typical “the world revolves around me and my mood swings and you all must bow down” and frankly, I don’t need to read about more, which is why I passed on this series when it came out.

Now, I’m glad, after reading other reviews such as yours, that I did!

Janicu, I read the book when it first came out ,as well, before any of the squeeing or fandom, and I really enjoyed it. I felt it was a lovely coming of age book. I haven’t read the rest of the series, as I started New Moon and just couldn’t get into it. But I never really thought that Bella would stay with Edward. I kind of thought that he was the foil to which Bella would grow. He was safe as a first love because there wasn’t ever going to be a HEA with them. Which was fine with me; I didn’t need them to have an HEA. I also did not catch the power play while reading the book, but I guess because it seemed totally normal for a teenage girl to do those things.

I kind of love to hate Twilight. On the surface of it, it seems like something my melodramatic inner teen would love, but it misses somehow. And it’s not really the quality of her writing (or lack thereof), or my (pretty much non-existant) aspirations towards being a reader of Literature. Or even - although I’ve claimed this - Edward’s creepiness (intense), or the imbalance of power in their relationship (disturbing), it’s Bella.

If Bella was a kick-ass heroine and could hold her own against… anyone really, let alone all of the supernatural beings she comes across, Twilight would absolutely be my guilty pleasure.

I own my shame. I bought the Night World Omnibus just this year and read it in public! Whoelse has been waiting ten years for Strange Fate?

Check out Liz Hand’s review of the most recent book in the series here—YES THERE ARE SPOILERS if you care.  But she has the Best Line Ever in this review.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080702528.html

I didn’t want to read these books before—a friend got an advance copy of the first one, and ranted about it to me at length—and now I really, really don’t need to do so.

It’s funny… the farther away from my initial read of this book I get, the more I want to go in and analytically rip it to shreds.  I completely agree about the complete and utter creepiness that is Bella and Edward’s “relationship,” Edward’s bizarre moodiness, Bella’s complete lack of a spine, a personality, or a brain…  I work with feminist theory, particularly the idea of tough women in popular culture, and my inner feminist critic would have a field day if I let her loose on Meyer’s books.

I used to think the books were like Pop Rocks.  Most of the time, I want nice, smooth dark chocolate, but every once in a while, I crave some Pop Rocks.  But lately, I’m beginning to think Twilight is less Pop Rocks and more those nasty peanut butter candies that cheapskates hand out at Hallowe’en.  Sure, some people like them, but everyone else wonders ‘Yeeacchh, why, god, why?’

Okay, I just read all four books in the course of about six weeks, so all of them are pretty fresh in my memory.
Why I completely see your problems with the book (and I completely agree), I really liked Twilight, it was cute. Unfortunately, the series goes pretty much downhill from there, New Moon and Eclipse being sweet, but sometimes dragging and the Bella-Edward and the Bella-Jacob relationship went a bit on my nerves, Breaking Dawn being disappointing. Disappointing, because instead of resolving a few of the issues I (and apparently you, too) had with the books, Meyer even strengthened everything bad about it…

Oh well. I guess I should have known better than to read an angsty teenager series, because that’s usually not my thing.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?! 

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

I"m a member of the fandom.  I’ve read the series a couple of times and each time the action just grabs me.  Stephenie Meyer isn’t the most spectacular writer, but she is pretty good at sucking people in. 

As for the relationship between Bella and Edward, I don’t see the problems other people see.  Bella is written to be a semi-adult in a teen’s body.  She’s taken care of her flightly mother most of her life, down to moving to a place she doesn’t want to be to make her mother happy.  She cares more for others than herself and doesn’t see herself as special. 

The book is completely from her point of view.  The point of view of a girl with slightly below-average self-esteem who can’t believe the hottest guy in school wants her.  I remember being in the grips of love and not ever wanting to leave the guys presence.  Bella just gets a wish fulfilled most girls don’t.

And yes, the relationship is unbalanced.  When you don’t think you’re good enough for someone, you give them all the power. But how often in real life are relationships truly balanced?  The work it takes to keep a relationship balanced is part of making a relationship work.  Not to mention she’s a weak and fragile human who’s trying to live in a world of strong, nearly indestructible vampires and warewolves.

I have been waiting for this thread for a while now….my 14/15 yr old self was ready to pimp myself out to the local high school looking for Vampire McHotties after I read this book.  Now for the funny part…...

My 41 yr old self read the book because my 4th grader came home telling me she NEEDED TO READ this book because her 5th grade friend on the bus read and “highly recommended” it. And wasn’t she SORELY DISAPPOINTED aka had a screaming s*%& fit,  when I said she needed to wait until she was twelve.

It so hard to be a tween.

I thought the angstyness was perfection and I had a few innocent stalkeresque male friends in high school, so I wasn’t thrown off by that. But with respect to the parental point of view, I didn’t want my almost 11 yr old to think “Now that is the man for me” and “where so I get me one of those?”

It’s entertainment baby…..

Huh. Well. I liked it. Of course, I wasn’t really reading in analytically at all. I was reading it, I guess, mindlessly. I screened it for a young teen niece and she loved it so much. I really enjoyed the book. But, like I said, I wasn’t really reading it as anything but fluff and to make sure it was appropriate for my niece. I’ve read the other two and have the fourth to read, but have been nervous to start because of the backlash against it.

Anyway, I get why you disliked it, and in fact, really appreciate your analysis. But for me, on a purely mindless bubblegum level, I liked it.

I thought it was just me.  The books didn’t do anything for me, I was glad I was reading the library editions, and having said all that, I truly enjoyed The Host, the author’s new sf novel aimed at an adult audience.  I had a few problems with the world-building in The Host, but I enjoyed the characters and story much much more than the Twilight series.

I understand your objections to the book, and understand your dislike of them.

However, and this is a big however, I did love the series because I did think it was a great study of two really disturbed characters who have a horrible relationship (in terms of the health of it) and yet it makes them both happy.  It is their HEA.  It was exciting to read a story where the two “protagonists” were people that I would never want to be, nor probably want to know - who are not healthy or good or deserving.  It’s a story that I don’t think gets told very often, which is the reason I love it like Christmas (or Rpattz, if you are in the know).

As such, I think the series is brilliant.  Subversive.  Not what it appears on the surface.  I thought the point of the series was that there was no line that these two disturbed characters wouldn’t cross for love.  I do think Stephenie Meyer understood how damaged and wrong her characters were and I think that it was precisely this aspect of them that appealed to her as an author to explore.  I think these points are even clearer within Midnight Sun (Twilight as retold from Edward’s POV which S Meyers has released the first chapter of on her website).  Edward understands he is a big obsessed stalker who shouldn’t be doing any of what he is, and Bella is a sado-masochist who loves everything he does to/for/with her.  They are perfect for one another, *because* of their freaky freakiness. 

I get why other people don’t like the books, and I wouldn’t try to convince someone who hated it that they should re-explore the book.  However, I do think that many of us who loved the books didn’t love them because we panted over Edward or Bella or their relationship but because it was so subversive and wrong and damaged.  And they both know this, and they both love this.  It might not be the relationship that any of us would want to be a part of, but both of them give informed consent to the crazy that they choose over and over and over again.  Weird, damaged but compelling as all get out to me. 

If anything - the series on a whole seems to be a re-imagining of Romeo and Juliet meets Wuthering Heights where the ‘protagonists’ get their happy ending against all odds or even reason.  Bella and Edward are overwrought, they do make terrible choices, they aren’t sympathetic at all…but they love one another and they get their own HEA within the messed up world they choose to inhabit.  It was a big wow for me. 

I think the books were also snarky as all get out, as well as much more knowing that many give Stephenie Meyer credit for.

I am definitely past my teen angst years, yet I’ve read every book in this series at least twice. Ok, I read Twilight at least three times. I don’t think that Edward is creepy and stalkerish at all. He’s a vampire in love for the first time in his loooooooong vampire life. And I don’t think that Bella is weak, either. I think she’s actually quite strong. She identifies what she wants and she goes after it. Sure, there are situations that she allows him to control, but who among us remains in control of every situation with our partners all the time?

This is a fantasy, not reality, folks. And some plot devices are necessary in a book. How’s a girl in a secluded town in High School going to meet a young man? You’ve got to get the vampires in her orbit every day somehow.

I think each one of these books is a beautiful love story with some great action tossed in for fun. Open your mind and try to enjoy it. I think Meyer’s writing is earnest, at times beautiful, at times cheesy. But, most of all, these books have provided me with hours of entertainment. I’ve got a big stack of other reading to get to, but I read the last book in this series twice anyway. :-)

Everything I know about Twilight and its ilk I learned from Cleolinda. And FW.

But your review is one more solid brick in the wall of I Don’t Think This Is The Series For Me.

This one’s in my TBR pile mostly for analytical reasons.  I’m always interested when a group of people are moved to rabid fandom behavior (Jacqueline Carey’s tattooed readers, Firefly’s Browncoats, Trekkies) when other people are left utterly cold.  I’m down with all the above examples, so maybe I’m prone to geeky group-think.

Reading this review had me thinking 1) that this relationship is a huge set-up for abuse, and 2) this could also be an interesting example of Total Power Exchange (TPE) that goes on in S&M;Master/slave relationships.

Since this is a YA book and it does not sound like there is any acknowledgement of the ways in which TPE is made safe for each partner, it seems unlikely that this is even a possibility…and even if it were would probably lead to #1, anyway.

To all the teenaged girls angsting out there, run run run far away from potential Edwards.  You know those nice guys that you aren’t so interested in…cultivate an interest.  Or better yet, wait for awhile til the interest comes up on it’s own.

I picked Twilight up randomly in the bookstore and read it in a few hours. Like you, it appealed to the angsty teen in me. I wouldn’t ever want my own Edward now, but I definitely would’ve then! I then read the next 2 books and thought they were so-so. THEN I found out the huge phenomenon that was the Twilight fandom. The fandom scares me.

I never picked up on the creepiness of their emotional attachment or Edward’s control over Bella. I’m glad I didn’t, because I really enjoyed Twilight.

Breaking Dawn sucked ass. Seriously. I want those few hours of my life back. I could’ve lived without knowing the ending, just to have not read it. I love me some Twilight, I hate me some Breaking Dawn.

I thought it was sweet. 
I thought it was every Harlequin Romance I’d ever read as F.A. Amy Lane, except without the sex.
I thought if I had to spend eternity as a high school student, I’d be… oh, wait—I’d be a high school TEACHER, and you know, it ain’t half bad, but I’m warped that way. 
I thought my daughter loved it, and I was glad—no matter how much I tell her she’s my beautiful girl and cater to her every whim, she’s convinced she’ll never be as lovely as Bella Swan, but she still has hope she’ll land an Edward (however fucked up he may be.) 
I thought that every girl goes through a period in her life when she loves a guy who appears to mug nuns for a living and who justifies this relationship with the phrase, ‘But he’s nice to me!’.  I married this particular crush—he’s an excellent family man who’s nice to us all.
I thought that if I’d been a thirteen year old, I would have eaten it up with a spoon and chocolate sauce. 

As a 40 year old, I wish we’d find the next big thing.  Harry Potter mania was SO much more exciting.

I like Twilight.  I didn’t like Edward because the thought of some random dude watching me sleep freaks me THE FUCK out, but I liked Twilight.  I thought it was an interesting story.  My friends were total fangirls and obsessed with the story to near Harry Potter lengths, so I kept reading the series. 

I liked New Moon as well, but mainly because I liked Jacob.  Bella was too much of a mopey teenager for me, but I’m all over that werewolf action.

Eclipse wasn’t great, but I finished it because I had to, and because of the werewolf action.  (Vampires are cold like stone.  Werewolves are huge (well over 6 foot) and burn at about 110 degrees.  Guess which one is more of a fantasy for the spank bank.) 

Breaking Dawn made me angry to a pretty absurd level.  The lack of consequences for Bella’s decisions in life and the rampant Mary Damn Sue-ness of it all just made my blood boil.
 
The Host was pretty good.  I did experience some frustration but I could see how characters were developed and behaved in a consistent and understandable manner.  I just didn’t like what they did.

Stephenie Meyer has definite talent making you feel for her characters.  What I’ve figured out is that she needs to write single books as opposed to series because she sah-HUCKS at writing an epic story arc.  She does write romance, and anyone who tries to deny that is fooling themselves.  I probably won’t read any more of her books for the simple fact that I prefer to have more deep dickin’ in my romance novels, but that’s me and I’m kinda pervy.

God, I’m having a nervous breakdown.  If I read about one more angsty, tortured vampire hero with a mysterious past, then I am going to recommend a hearty dose of slap therapy for him in hopes that he comes around.  You are Handsome, Rich, and Immortal- please stop bellyaching. 

Is there no wry stoicism in Vampire Romancelandia?  Seneca would have made an awesome vampire.  So would Epicurus, for that matter- he would have been the happiest vampire ever.

Hello, sometime reader, first time commenter! :)

But what really bothers me is the degree to which Bella subsumes her identity at every turn.

YES!  I agree completely.  This drove me nuts in the first book AND the second book, but I kept going b/c it’s got such a following (including one of my sisters).

it’s awful, omg, alert the vampires that a terrible insult has been laid upon them.

*dies*

Bella mopes from meh to meh.

And again with the YES!  I felt this even more so in the second book, but the seeds of it are in the first book.

Well reviewed!  And I share your wtf? regarding what could possibly be so life-altering about it.

Background: I’ve only read the first one and I’m 24. I decided to read it more because of the movie trailers and light touches of fandom and hype that I’ve allowed through my defenses, than hearing exclaimations of: “Oh my God! This book is amazering!”. So a pretty blank slate as far as expectations go.

That said, I thought it was both hysterical, and a few good ideas. I don’t think it lived up to its potential, and Bella is SO irritating. I don’t think Edward’s squick value (I hear you on that Sarah) would be so high if Bella were different. Also the pacing felt like it was all over the place in my opinion, but that might just be me. I could still see me at some point picking up the next one. Maybe. But it wouldn’t be a rush.

Someone tell me though, does it ever turn out that that there’s something special about Bella? Just a yes or no, no spoilers please. It’s just there’s a big deal made about her being able to smell blood, and she herself smells special, etc. It ended up really bugging me.

I had to read Twilight a couple of months ago, just because I had to know what all the fuss was about.  I have to say I can see both points of view on this thing.

Yes, it’s creepy that he’s watching her sleep, and all the power in the relationship rests on his *gorgeous*, *handsome*, *sparklely* shoulders.  And someone needs to tell Bella that you don’t drive on icy roads with tire chains.  And she does seem to be the ultimate Mary Sue…

But, for all that, I can absolutely understand why this series is so popular.  It is a complete teenage fantasy.  (And, by “fantasy,” I’m not referring to the vampires and werewolves.  I’m talking about the kinds of things you spend you time in study hall daydreaming about.)  Edward is the ultimate bad boy with the heart of gold.  He’s dangerous, but he’s so in control that Bella knows he’ll never hurt her. (I think I’d have been a little more skeptical than she was about that - but that’s just me.)  Twilight portrays all the obsessive stuff that goes along with first love, perfectly.  Bella does seem to spend most of her time thinking about how good Edward looks, but didn’t we all do that with our first boyfriends?

I found myself mildly enjoying Twilight, but I was left with no desire to continue on and read the sequels.  When Breaking Dawn came out and I started reading the (hilariously-bad) plot summaries, I applauded myself on my decision.

To Eunice -

Someone tell me though, does it ever turn out that that there’s something special about Bella? Just a yes or no, no spoilers please. It’s just there’s a big deal made about her being able to smell blood, and she herself smells special, etc. It ended up really bugging me.

Yes, she ends up having a very special vampire power and some really cool abilities.

I own my shame. I bought the Night World Omnibus just this year and read it in public! Whoelse has been waiting ten years for Strange Fate?

DUDE. THE NIGHT WORLD BOOKS WERE THE FAVORED BOOK SERIES OF MY EARLY TEENAGERHOOD. CANNOT. WAIT.

Sorry to get all capslock, but. I reread the first Night World omnibus (which was never my favorite - I preferred the later books, especially Rashel’s story and Jez’s story) and omfg it was just as good as I remember it being. Which is, of course, SO much better than Twilight. It pisses me off that such amazing young adult supernatural romance/thrillers are only getting re-released because of Twilight and that people will be even speaking of them in the same sentence as that tripe. LJ SMITH ILU.

I am so happy you finally got to read Twilight even though it wasn’t your cup of tea.
I adored this book. I am sucker for broody heroes with mood swings but still is a pussycat with the heroine. For some reason I didn’t see Bella moping around as everyone else did. I did enjoy her voice, and her teen angst shall we say?
My inner 13 year old spirit sucked this book up like Edward wanted to do with Bella’s sweet blood. LOL

Someone needs to do a retrospective post on RL Stein.  Those books by Stein where my guilty teen read along with Sweet Valley High.

Even after I’ve read the trainwreck that is Twilight, I still find myself pausing every time I walk by the display in the bookstore.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

Still firmly under my rock and have no plans to come out. Thankyouverymuch.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?! 

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

I think you’ve just hit the nail on the head as to why I can’t bring myself to read this series.  The illogic of a 100+ year old CHOOSING to be in high school (even if he looks the part) is just too much for me.

Is there no wry stoicism in Vampire Romancelandia?  Seneca would have made an awesome vampire.  So would Epicurus, for that matter- he would have been the happiest vampire ever.

If you’re looking for a generally angst-free vampire hero, check out PN Elrod’s The Vampire Files, which feature Jack Fleming, a vamp private eye in Depression-era Chicago.  Jack has a sense of humor, a solid relationship with his nightclub singer girlfriend, and a fairly flexible moral code.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

I adore the covers too, especially the bicolored tulip one.  Simple, elegant, and just lovely.

Sasha wrote:

However, and this is a big however, I did love the series because I did think it was a great study of two really disturbed characters who have a horrible relationship (in terms of the health of it) and yet it makes them both happy.  It is their HEA.  It was exciting to read a story where the two “protagonists” were people that I would never want to be, nor probably want to know - who are not healthy or good or deserving.

Pattinson has almost convinced me to watch this movie with his comments:

“When you read the book,” says Pattinson, ... “it’s like, ‘Edward Cullen was so beautiful I creamed myself.’ I mean, every line is liked that. He’s the most ridiculous person who’s so amazing at everything. I think a lot of actors tried to play that aspect. I just couldn’t do that. And the more I read the script, the more I hated this guy, so that’s how I played him, as a manic-depressive who hates himself. Plus, he’s a 108 year-old virgin so he’s obviously got some issues there.”

Just like guy’s, there’re some books you want to date, and some books you want to marry.  I’m having a quick fling with this book, and I’m enjoying the twist.  True, with a newborn, I have zero attention span and my sleep-deprived life can only take something as deep as a mud puddle.  I mean really, at 3am feedings its not like I could concentrate on War and Peace, something flighty for me please.  When its over, I’m guessing Twilight and I will go our separate ways without any regrets.  Until then I’m enjoying the brief affair.

Uhm…wow.

Ditto

to all the reasons NOT to read this series. I’m way too old for such nonsense and the doctor told me I had to watch my blood pressure. I get the feeling that Bella would just piss me off. Royally.

SBSarah and Leslie Dickenson, our rocks must be in the same neighborhood. *waves* Howdy, neighbors! *happily crawls back under mine*

Darn clicked to fast.  Meant to say I think Sasha may have something there considering Pattinson’s remarks. 

Haven’t read the book but angsty teenager is long gone.

You might be interested in seeing a take on the book which explores Mormon influences on various characters and their behaviors (the review is chock full of sparkles—and Bjork— what’s not to love?).

Between Stoney’s review in that link and the others I’ve seen like this one, I feel like I’ve been granted a few hours of life that might otherwise have been spent introducing a book to a wall.  Now I just have to figure out something extra fun I can do with my un-Twilight time.

DUDE. THE NIGHT WORLD BOOKS WERE THE FAVORED BOOK SERIES OF MY EARLY TEENAGERHOOD. CANNOT. WAIT.

Sorry to get all capslock, but. I reread the first Night World omnibus (which was never my favorite - I preferred the later books, especially Rashel’s story and Jez’s story) and omfg it was just as good as I remember it being. Which is, of course, SO much better than Twilight. It pisses me off that such amazing young adult supernatural romance/thrillers are only getting re-released because of Twilight and that people will be even speaking of them in the same sentence as that tripe. LJ SMITH ILU.

I think Jez may have been my favourite! But I liked the one with pancreatic cancer, and the rogue vampire sisters too. And the witch sistercousins. And the revenge-crazed vampire hunter. I think the only ones I didn’t really like are in the econd omnibus, the one whose dead cousin speaks to her and the one with all the past lives, each lamer than the last.

I love LJ Smith so very much. I would pay money to see the Forbidden Game series reviewed here. Or the series with all the vaguely incestuous multiple witch-cousin happenings. Or the Vampire Diaries! It’s like Twilight, but the heroine knows all the boys are love with her and is an obnoxious bitch. And everyone acknowledges her shallowness.

Maybe I’m not selling these well?

“When you read the book,” says Pattinson, ... “it’s like, ‘Edward Cullen was so beautiful I creamed myself.’ I mean, every line is liked that. He’s the most ridiculous person who’s so amazing at everything. I think a lot of actors tried to play that aspect. I just couldn’t do that. And the more I read the script, the more I hated this guy, so that’s how I played him, as a manic-depressive who hates himself. Plus, he’s a 108 year-old virgin so he’s obviously got some issues there.”

ILU RPattz.

I’m curious to know whether the moms who love the series and Edward find it a tad bit disturbing the Bella loses herself to him so badly.  She turns into a completely different person once she starts falling for him and seems to lose her identity one small bit at a time.  Now, with Jacob, she seemed to be a little more believable and self-assured, but it was ridiculous to think she might chose the right kind of guy instead of the one she falls in lust for. 
I’m glad I don’t have to worry about that whole teenage angst and worrying about the possibility of my daughter going through all this crap.  These books are for pure entertainment and it’s one thing for girls to lose themselves in them, but when their moms are behaving worse than they are, well, that’s even scarier!  I read someplace that the women were the bigger fans and were making the most noise at the Twilight events.  Did any of them get the real message or were they so in love with Edward that they didn’t see the problem with the message in these books?

I’m not going to say too much, because I’m reading the series and then am going to write a long piece on it, but I think the draw of Twilight is in the fact that Bella can have this guy in her life who continues to insist on how dangerous he is but who also—we know—will always act to protect her. 

Now that may backfire in all sorts of spectacular ways, but I think that cocktail of danger and safety is a powerful draw in Romance, and IMO, Twilight is one of THE MOST CONVENTIONAL ROMANCES I have ever read.  In fact, I think it’s more conventional than most adult paranormal Romance (in fact, I keep joking that I can no longer say I don’t read inspy Romance).  And in it you have the typical geeky, angsty girl and the brooding, beautiful, isolated and wounded male, and voila! true love (innocent love, at least sexually). 

It’s an added bonus that Edward finds himself so objectionable, because it creates the urge on Bella’s part to insist that he is not a bad guy, and by extension, for the reader to embrace Edward and to see the depths of goodness in him despite his own sense of self.  So you have all that, plus the sexual innocence (Edward barely allows kissing!), the whole outsider thing, and the intensity of the coming of age stuff, and I think Twilight serves up core Romance .

Now, if you make it to book two, you get the Bella who uncritically defines herself solely by all the men in her life.  And then the overt Wuthering Heights parallels start rolling out.  That’s when things really get scary, lol.

I’m still under my rock…I love it here.  Nope, haven’t read it although I have bought this one.

I keep hearing people rave about it, but I just haven’t worked up the enthusiasm to try it.  I will, sooner or later.

I am still waiting to read Twilight (only 22 people ahead of me at the library)...
I won’t buy it because of all the reasons stated above, I’m afraid I won’t like it and then I’ve just wasted my precious money. I buy books I love so I can read them over and over and over until their covers fall off… I don’t see that happening with this one, but I can’t help myself, I have to see what the hype is all about…
I think I married Edward though, even though I am nothing like the descriptions of Bella… :) Thankfully he doesn’t watch me as I sleep (creepy alert!) but he is moody as all get out and def that guy I never thought I could get that all the other girls want, and he does live up to the hype in the ways that REALLY count >:)
Still, I would hope that no one uses my own (or Bella’s) dysfunctional relationship as an example of what to hope for, and it bothers me that so many girls are going apeshit about this series…
Love your site btw, only just discovered it about a week ago, my kind of gals

She turns into a completely different person once she starts falling for him and seems to lose her identity one small bit at a time.

This is my current situation with DD2. Over the past two years, she’s become a child I don’t know as she’s let her boyfriend consume her life to the point where, at 19, she’s moving in with him.

Mind, I’m disgusted with DD2 more for the fact that she’s not grown one iota since meeting this boy and for that fact is not ready for any kind of adult commitment. Were she more mature, more willing to accept responsibility rather than his word for everything, it might be different.

Did any of them get the real message or were they so in love with Edward that they didn’t see the problem with the message in these books?

I’m guessing they’ve totally overlooked everything in these books that says it’s okay to be so submissive to the guy you lust for that you’re willing to give up yourself, everything you are, to be with him.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

Yes, yes, yes.  The covers are stunning.  I’m partial to the red-ribbon one.  Can’t for the life of me tell you which book that is, but it’s beautifully nonspecific and evocative.  Romance novels ought to look like that.

Even my most angsty teenage self would never have wanted a relationship with a vampire.  Real boys, as I recall them, were complicated and challenging enough.

I had suitably angsty intense relationships with really awful, unsuitable, self absorbed guys who were interested more in screwing with my already ruffled emotions than they were any genuine efforts at being a couple. One particular guy was an absolute waste, and I am horrified that I spent so much time trying to make this fool happy.

You just described my 4 years of high school. Oh, I dated a couple of normal guys, but I spent 4 YEARS angsting over my BFF Jason. I had to save him from himself you know!  GAH!

The only good thing that came out of that experience is I knew what NOT to look for in a boyfriend!!  I married the exact opposite of “you are my best friend, let me tell you about myself. Oh no, I revealed too much I must ignore you for a month” Jason!

I wouldn’t go through high school again for a million bucks. Srsly!

This book will not be on my TBR list b/c like damn, high school was hard enough as a teen, I’m 35, I’m too old for that crap!

I’ve a theory about the book’s appeal to teenagers.

My 13 year old still plays with dolls (Bratz, so according to internet wisdom, a career as hooker awaits) and my 17 year old plays with Boyz. My fifteen year old has given up dolls and is interested in boys in a theoretical sense. She’s the one that likes Twilight.
I read a research paper on the internet, which talked about the reasons teenage girls put posters of boys on their bedroom walls, and the author argued that it’s part of a specific developmental stage - where girls almost rehearse feelings of what it might like to be in love - imagine caring for someone.
My guess is that for my fifteen year old, and her friends, Edward Cullen = the Bay City Rollers. A safe figure to focus those adolescent yearnings on.

I read the whole series so she could talk to me about them - and honestly, I thought they were fine. Not for me, but I’m not YA. I’d more difficulty getting through the Libba Bray book which everyone seems to love.

I believe it was an article in Entertainment Weekly that was mentioning the number of women going to these signings thanking Meyers for her books, blah, blah, blah and then presenting her with their babies named Bella!  They credited the books for bringing romance back into their lives (I guess because Edward didn’t touch Bella in that special kind of way that it got readers hot and horny!)  After reading that section of the article I fet a little creepy—don’t know why exactly except if the older women are doing this, I hope young girls don’t follow in the same path!

Normally, I’m not this critical of books and their messages, but this was geared to the younger group and girls need as much guidance as they can get at that impressionable age.  I used to be a Bella and trust me—I was so misguided.  I’m glad I got my sh** together after high school.

True about the covers. They’re absolutely gorgeous, and the first thing that made me take notice of them.

LA> Thank you for answering my question.

katiebabs> If we’re talking R.L. Stein then it has to be the Fear Street books! Don’t even get me started, they’re still a guilty pleasure, if in a different way. I have a secret stash that I use to cleanse my literary pallette inbetween meatier books.

Erin> A fling, yes, exactly. That’s the perfect way to put it.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?!

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

This is the thing that makes it the archetypal teenage romance, and the reason that so many of us got chided for reading romances at too early an age on account of it would give us unrealistic expectations.

I’ve been reading Romance Manga lately (thank you onemanga.com), which are mostly aimed at teenage girls.  So, so many of them have the hero being:

- 17, or at least in the Senior year of high school
- yet somehow emancipated from parental control (so mature!)
- class president
- a self-made millionaire
- a genius
- a rock star (or model, or actor)
- a martial arts expert
- ridiculously good looking
- the object of every other girl’s lust and obsession
- and sometimes all of the above

And the heroine being:

- ordinary

This is the teenage girl fantasy of ordinary ol’ me being the Chosen One for the guy who’s SO MUCH BETTER than all the losers I go to school with.  But, I’m in school.  How do I meet this paragon?  (Being ordinary, I never go anywhere besides school.)  Why, he must go to my school!  I shall ignore any gyrations that make his attendance at my school unrealistic.

I haven’t read any Meyers, and probably won’t because my silly quotient is being filled by manga, but I can (from a distance) see the appeal.

The review in the Washington Post was hysterical.

Educators, readers and parents have all made much of the fact that the Twilight series promotes a wholesome version of teen love for its dreamy, predominantly female readership, citing how the books’ protagonists practice abstinence (as opposed to, say, the lewd excesses of Harry Potter’s cohort, or those out-of-control Pevensie kids).

Reminds me of The West Wing episode which examines the impact of abstinence-only education. The briefing memo that went around was nicknamed, “Everything But(t),” full of suggestions to keep randy teens happy but baby-free.

Waiting for someone to write slushy paranormal YA about anal.

I haven’t read any Meyers, and probably won’t because my silly quotient is being filled by manga, but I can (from a distance) see the appeal.

That reminds me: Vampire Knight. It’s everything that Twilight fails to be.

This article explains it all:

“There are a bunch of other SEXY VAMPIRES and a few other humans in the series, but they’re not important - the point of Vampire Knight is for Yuuki, Kaname, and Zero to be involved in the most gasp-worthy, gut-wrenching love triangle EVAR. Kaname saved Yuuki from a much more evil vampire when she was a child, so she’s in love with him, but he’s a gentleman vampire who won’t bite her no matter how much he wants to. Zero comes from a family of vampire hunters, and since a vampire killed his family, he hates vampires more than anything - and thus hates Kaname. But Zero was also bitten by a pureblood vampire, so he’s turning into a mindless vampire himself, meaning he’s physically and emotionally tortured 24-7. Yuuki’s his friend, and they have sexual tension, but she also has sexual tension with Kaname, who has mutual hatred (and sexual tension!) with Zero.”

Ok, having read Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse and now Breaking Dawn, I think as a writer I’ve figured out why readers are hooked on Stephenie Meyer’s books like addicts on book crack.

While Edward is a vampire, and that just brings in a whole slew of readers right there, he’s also got the whole bad-boy-who’s-still-safe thing going for him. He’s older (though not in physical years, if you aren’t counting not aging the nearly 100 years he’s been changed), he’s smart, he’s got money, he’s got a dangerous edge about him with his supernatural strength. But he’s also not going to initiate anything physical with Bella (in order to protect her). It’s a safe protective relationship for a girl who’s never really been around her father much…makes sense.  All the other stuff, money, power, total adoration, cool factor, belonging to the “other”, what’s not for a tween-teen girl to fantasize about?

The thematic that love is self-sacrifice only adds to the whole deal. He’s sacrificing his desire, his need to eat, to save her mortal life. She’s sacrificing who she is to fit into his immortal world. Jacob is sacrificing his whole culture/world for Bella’s happiness. Bella is sacrificing her former love of sunshine to keep her flaky mom happy.  Bella’s father is sacrificing his better instincts to keep his daughter happy. Bella and Edward are sacrificing themselves for…you seeing a pattern here?

Reader excuse Bella’s whining, her fit of utter morose depression, her near cultish following of the Cullens, because dammit, it’s for love. And love is worth any price (see references to Romeo and Juliet between the pages of Meyer’s books for further explanation.)

But what really struck me was how completely wrapped up my tween and a fifty-year-old step-father could be in the same set of books. Meyer’s (and I am NOT saying this because our names are so similar - and we are NOT related - I’ve got an “s” on the end of my married name) excells at bringing people to the base level of their emotions that can cut across gender, age, ethinicity and class. Beyond fear, anger and love (as basic as you get) there is guilt, sorrow, pain, trust, devotion and hope.

As writer’s we really get into what makes readers experience the book like we see it in our heads. As readers, well hell, we just get into the story and appreciate one that makes people start talking.

Not everyone is going to move beyond the multiple squick factors in this book (domination, age-differences, self-sacrifice like WTFBBQ).  I get that. I also get that she did something right in causing such a hate/love reaction in readers. If you can polarize people you’ve hit something right.

dear god - spaminator - father44…they always said daddy issues sells, guess this is a good example.

And this oh so neatly sums up why I will never read the series.

Oh, as well as Cleolinda’s summerizations.

God, thank you.  I was unable to finish the first book.  Then, after listening to a friend rave about the last book in the series (Breaking Dawn - link to ebooks version, which is priced pretty well), I purchased it.  Breaking Dawn is better… to an extent, because the storyline actually progresses.  However, this is not a book I could justifiably recommend to my teenage cousins, because the main character is weak and whiny and incredibly immature (even though she gets married - right out of high school - and has a BABY).  I hope that the teenage girls who comprise the majority of Meyer’s fan base are able to distinguish the difference between things that work for idiotic characters in fiction and behavior that will only attract the dumbest of men.

I have to say that in general I liked Twilight...and the rest of the series as well. 

I think they are light and frothy, fun and readable and sweet…and about as deep as a sheet of notebook paper.  It’s all surface.  There’s no complexity to the characters or to the overarcing storyline.  Nobody particularly changes and grows.  The initial conflict of human-girl-falls-in-love-with-a-vampire never really amounts to much because, of course, the Cullens are all good.  They are intrinsically kind, decent, God-fearing, thoughtful, generous people who happen to have REALLY white skin and keen senses.  They have no real vulnerabilities and pose no threat to anyone.  Like I said…superficial. 

But when I (finally) got around to reading the first one, I read it quickly and happily went and picked up the others.  Again:  light and frothy, fun and readable and sweet.  Angsty?  Oh, sure.  (Especially the third book, which felt way forced to me with all that manufactured love triangle crap.)  But I thought “angst” was pretty much synonymous with “teenager”?

Anyway…some of the reviews and comments I read online make me wonder what people expected these books to be.  I can totally get that they’re not everyone’s cuppa…and I can’t understand really why anyone over the age of about 17 would think these were the Best Books Ever (unless they just didn’t read a lot)...but the disappointment and the tenor of the criticism of this series by adults at times bewilders me.

I liked Twilight. New Moon wasn’t bad - I would have rather Bella ended up with Jacob than chasing after Edward. Eclipse was all backstory, and Breaking Dawn - ugh. Yes, I find Edward creepy and controlling.  And as someone else commented earlier, Bella has been taking care of her mother and being more responsible than most of the adults in her life. I don’t see her as spineless, just a teenaged girl.  I think we should remember that Twilight is marketed for the Young Adult, in other words tweens and under 18 year old girls - who those 62K+ fan sites or whatever it was, prove it is LOVED.

I just finished this on Sunday on a flight from NYC to LA.  Apparently, I’m the only person on earth who hadn’t heard of Stephanie Meyer, then my husband heard about it on NPR and suggested it.  (It’s a romance - you like romance).  A few weeks wait and my copy arrived from the library.  Other than the endless control issues, I found the writing stilted.  He gulped.  She winced.  He sighed.—it was endless taglines.  I also couldn’t find the plot.  He’s moody.  He saves her,  She finds out he’s a vampire.  He saves her.  They fall in looove.  She gets trapped by another vampire, he saves her.  I just kept reading in case something happened.  Since other reviews indicated it just gets worse from here.  I’m going to stop now.  There are too many other books and too little time.

I just read this. Had the same reaction as you, Sarah. I disliked the main characters—particularly Bella. She seriously irritated me. So it was hard for me to engage myself in the story.

Plus, I just didn’t get it.

Seven out of eight of the class of 15 year olds I taught last year were crackwhores for the Twilight series, so I bought Twilight and number 2 (eclipse?) to see what the fuss was about. Read Number 1 but number 2 is still there in the TBR pile and I can’t seem to find any enthusiasm for it at all. I had just read Cassandra Clare’s City of Bones, which I found much more interesting, and as a big Buffy fan, Bella Swan left me totally WTF.

As an ex-angsty teen myself, I thought I would feel more sympathy for her, but by the end of Twilight, I wanted to slap both Edward and her. She was beyond TSTL, but I was always conscious that this was just a dumb book and that Bella Swan was the uber-Mary Sue (especially when I found out that she first featured in the author’s dreams).

When my lovely students asked me what I thought, I glossed - it was fine, but I am a died in the wool Buffy addict and found Bella and her vampires too vanilla. In my view, vamps can’t do sunshine and Bella needed more of a spine.

As for the role model for abstinence business, well. That’s a bit like thinking that reading Lolita is going to turn us all into Humbert Humberts. Books don’t get people to do anything except think.

The thing that really does worry me about the Meyers fanbase is the adult women who are getting all tingly about Edward. That’s what I find even more icky than his stalker-schtick.

The Salon.com review is very perceptive on both the romance and the fantasy aspects of the books.  Note the *appropriate* use of the placeholder theory to describe *teenagers* (not all women, or all romance readers) trying on different possibilities—much like Marianne McA’s reading on developmental stages.

the Twilight books ... are—in essence and most particulars—romance novels, and despite their gothic trappings represent a resurrection of the most old-fashioned incarnation of the genre. They summon a world in which love is passionate, yet (relatively) chaste, girls need be nothing more than fetchingly vulnerable, and masterful men can be depended upon to protect and worship them for it.

Bella is not really the point of the Twilight series; she’s more of a place holder than a character. She is purposely made as featureless and ordinary as possible in order to render her a vacant, flexible skin into which the reader can insert herself and thereby vicariously enjoy Edward’s chilly charms.

But the best part of the review, I think, is the understanding of fantasy’s allure:

Twilight succeeds at communicating the obsessive, narcotic interiority of all intense fantasy lives. ... it finds its voluptuousness in the hypnotic reduction of its attention to a single point: the experience of being loved by Edward Cullen.

I didn’t like the book.  It had too settings, in my opinion, and they were ‘boring’ and ‘oh fercryinoutloud’.  However, I do have a somewhat knowledge of the fandom from witnessing a few hilarious fandom wars. 

A few MONTHS ago a webcomic artist made a parody comic that is still getting her praised and bashed all over the internet on a regular basis:

http://shinga.deviantart.com/art/Head-Trip-Twilight-Sucks-85504254

She hadn’t read the book at the time of making the comic, so the fandom called shenanigans and told her to read it.  So she did, and created a summary of each chapter that while being absolutely hilarious is also still getting her praised and flamed to no seeming end:

http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html

Based on observation I’ve noticed four distinct groups in the Twilight fandom.  There may be variations within the categories, but these are the general ones:
1- the hardcore Meyers can do no wrong, or at least not wrong enough to turn away from, but they’re under the age of seventeen so we just smile and hope they grow in taste eventually.
2- the crack readers, who know it isn’t good, but still read it anyway because they either want to know what happens next, or they find it hilarious
3- the hardcore reader who hates one of the characters.  Aparently a lot of fans hate Bella because of her whining/uselessness/MarySue qualities or an umber of other reasons the least of which being she’s an annoying narrator
4- the ‘Twilight Moms’, women who by all acounts are old enough to know what both a good book looks like, and what a good relationship looks like, but for some reason think Twilight is the best thing ever and want to go cougar on Edwards seventeen year old body (but its okay, because really he’s older)

Many times I’ve run into the teenager with low self esteem who says she likes Twilight because it gives her hope that even though she doesn’t think she’s pretty or popular or talented, she can still find true love.  But the book doesn’t teach anything like confidence, it just says that if you move to a new town the boys will suddenly be all over you and you’ll get your very own stalker just for showing up.  Through no effort of your own will you become popular, and you’ll still have no self esteem to speak of even with the boyfriend. 

Personally, the reason I think it’s so popular is because it’s fun to be part of a fandom.  It’s reached the point where the group mentality has made people interested, like a joke everyone knows but you, and teens are very prone to cliquing and finding outside reinforcements to combat their trying years with.  It’s like how watching a bad movie with a group of friends makes it about fifty times more fun than watching it alone, and the fun of watching it makes the movie seem better than it really is.

Eventually most of these girls will either grow into better reading or not, but most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?” and others will just have happy memories of being a part of something that gave them and their friends a lot of good times. 

-
LOLsecurity text:  always94 “How long have you been 94?” “A very long time”

karmelrio said:

I bailed halfway through the first book.  I found Edward’s behavior to be creepy and stalkeresque, not all swoony and romantic.

And I agree.  Edward = stalker = creepy = I’m way out of touch because if any guy had pulled that shiz when I was in school my mom would have kicked the crap out of him, my brother would have killed him, and my daddy would have buried him (of course being a vampire it would have been ash I suppose, but whatev).

My rock is nice and comfy, thanks! I haven’t read any of the series but my book friends are all over them with varying opinions. If I was F.A.C., I’d be all over them like a bad rash as well. Angst, vampires, lurve! Swoon!

I just read The Silver Kiss, by Annette Curtis Klause, 1992. Angsty teenage vampire meets soul mate in mortal girl who’s mother is dying. They bond over death. A gorgeous little book with a strong heroine.

Just offering it up as a palette cleanser.

Evie

judging by the snippets I’ve seen, and the description from my friend who read it, the plot is sound, but the author isn’t and needs to take both English and Creative Writing again. We’ve both concluded that the vast majority reading it, outside of those who recognize it’s bad, but like it anyway, are a bunch of morons who wouldn’t know good writing even if it slapped them repeatedly…. which would incriminate a bunch of teenagers and tweens because almost everyone as a teenager and a tween thinks this sort of thing is OMG!~ SO DEEP!

also… look it up on fandom wank wiki.

I had just read Cassandra Clare’s City of Bones, which I found much more interesting

How much of it was Cassie Clare’s own voice, and how much of it was “borrowed” from other sources?

/cattiness. Sorry. CC was at the heart of what I’m pretty sure was the first really major plagiarism scandal in the Harry Potter fandom. It annoys many that she went on to become a published writer.

(Whatever you think about fic, know that the overwhelming majority of the fic community is *violently* anti-plagiarism. You can borrow characters and worlds, but you do. not. touch. others’ words.)

Can I recommend PC and Kristin Cast as a great alternative for angsty kids who are a little too smart to buy Edward’s stalkerific 105-trapped-at-18-so-I-aint-a-pedo deal?

Haven’t read the books, but am enjoying the hell out of all the parodies.  My oldest girl isn’t quite old enough for the series, as boys are yucky and vampires would give her nightmares. 

Peaches said:

Eventually most of these girls will either grow into better reading or not, but most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?” and others will just have happy memories of being a part of something that gave them and their friends a lot of good times.

This struck a chord.  How many of us in our 30’s/40’s devoured early Rosemary Rogers, Johanna Lindsey, Kathleen Woodiwiss and the ilk when we were teens?  Edward Cullen don’t have nothing on Steve Morgan in the dysfunction sweepstakes.  (Although the infant imprinting thing described in many reviews skeeves me out like nails on a chalkboard combined with cotton out of an aspirin container all wrapped in metal chair dragged across a hard floor.)  We look back and laugh, mock, and groan at our insipid adolescent taste that forgave Brandon for raping Heather because he was rich, hawt, frothing with jealousy, and eventually good in bed.

How many of us in our 30’s/40’s devoured early Rosemary Rogers, Johanna Lindsey, Kathleen Woodiwiss and the ilk when we were teens?

Me!

But they weren’t aimed at us and we knew that.  I didn’t know anyone else who read what I read, adult or teenager, so I also had no chance to work myself into a fanwanking frenzy.

  If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?!

  That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

Add me to this small, baffled group! Seriously, when one of my Twilight-loving friends tried to get me to read this series, I stopped her at this point in her summary. Why, I asked her, would a hundred-something year old choose to spend all of eternity in high school? Was high school not four years of Hell on Earth? Who would choose to relive that forever? Whereas college was the best four years of our lives - a feeling shared by many of the twenty-somethings we know. (She conceded that I had a point). If Edward were smart, he’d spend eternity college-hopping and lettin’ the good times roll!

I agree with your review - these books (and I’ve read them all) pretty much make me want to spork my eyes out.

If Edward were smart, he’d spend eternity college-hopping and lettin’ the good times roll!

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

And since someone else is groovin’ on Annette Curtis Klause, Blood and Chocolate is The. Best. Paranormal. YA. Novel. Ever.  Werewolves instead of vampires, but OMG! angst, self-centredness, horniness!  I was so there.  I wanted to be Vivienne so badly.  (And I was WAY past teenagerhood when I read it.)

Also,

most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?”

I love-love-LOVED Laura Ingalls Wilder’s books as a tween.  Reading one of them again in my early twenties, I wanted to go back in time and choke the prissy little git.  Did not like the characters AT ALL.

passed21:  a long, long time ago.  But I still loves me some YA romance.  Went out of my way to watch High School Musical.  *ducks head and blushes*

This may be mean of me, but I really want you to keep reading and reviewing until you get to Breaking Dawn.  I can never get too much of reading about peoples’ reactions to parts of that book.

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

I second this. LOVE that book.

Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed these books—any clue as to why they are so freaking popular? They seem to be somewhat-less-than-average-quality examples of a niche that has many better samples to offer. Why aren’t the same readers going crazy for L.J. Smith, Amelia Atwater-Rhodes, Annette Curtis Klause, Vivian Vande Velde…? These authors all have relationships between teens and hot, brooding vampires, but generally healthier relationships described in better prose. What quality makes Twilight so crack-like?

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

Oh, good GOD, yes.

Though I’ve never quite forgiven my college for not being Blackstock. :) (Where’s MY Thomas Lane?)

Has anyone mentioned that the first 12 chapters of Midnight Sun have been leaked?  The Amazon boards can’t decide if this was done by SM’s publishers to distract interest from the Breaking Dawn backlash or if it was Rob Pattinson because he hated Edward so much. http://www.amazon.com/Sooo-Midnight-Sun/forum/Fx1GAA6GYWX8459/TxKRNTM1LREH6X/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=031606792X

Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

As a publicist in my day job, I’d tend to go with the “distracting from the backlash” theory.  Now that the book has been released, what else are you going to do to get more publicity?  Rile up the rabid fans of course! Get them talking.  Meh.  Seriously, as a writer can you imagine what it’s like to have to rewrite an entire book from another characters POV? Sounds hellish to me personally.

Not to appear stupid, but why is there backlash? and does she have to write it again from another character’s POV?

Sasha:

I think the books were also snarky as all get out, as well as much more knowing that many give Stephenie Meyer credit for.

I kind of disagree with that since almost every interview with SMeyer has her waxing romantic about how perfect Edward is and how perfect their love is, blahblahblah. If she was really writing what you think she was writing, you think she might have spelled it out for the dumb - even just in her interviews.

And the whole “I shouldn’t do this, it’s bad” thing in Midnight Sun is totally one of those “Oh, I shouldn’t have another cookie, it’s WRROOOOOOOOONG!” and then does it anyway. And where are the consequences for his actions? He gets his girl anyway. And Midnight Sun is just the first book, it doesn’t justify the next four piles of steaming crap.

Er… that is, Midnight Sun just covers the first book.

It’s funny to see this now-I just did a marathon reading of all the books. They were OK, but nothing special. The second in the series made me want to beat my brains out.
Bella and Edward seem more creepy obsessive than romantic.

Apparently she wanted to rewrite Twilight from Edwards POV.  I haven’t read any of the leaked chapters but from what I’ve heard there’s some unintentionally funny moments as Edward tries to figure out how he could kill Bella without giving himself away. 

Someone else is going to have to explain the book returning rage that seems to have consumed a number of her former fans.

Thanks, DS. All the SM stuff is new to me. Like I said in an early post, I have an angsty teenager who’s been that way for the past two or three years. I deal with her every day. Somehow, I just can’t bring myself to read about them on top of that. :P

Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

I don’t think it is either, especially since when I found my copy, it was in the regular scifi/fantasy section, not the YA section.

But yes, that’s another book I liked well enough to reread multiple times.

Forget S. Meyers.  The Japanese have it all over her on the wangst.  And they do it better.  AND SPARKLIER!

Someone mentioned Vampire Knight (and it gets OH SO MUCH BETTER WITH THE INCEST FACTOR YES YES!) and that’s just the proverbial tip of the angst iceberg.  The quality of the stories (beyond the first stirrings of self insert) are typically higher and the characters more well rounded.  There is always SOMEONE making sure the heroine grows one way or another BEFORE she gets her man.  It’s pleasing.  In a squealy kind of way.

As for these books.  I cannot stand them.  I’m fighting them in my classes now and having to explain to girls that boys their age are NOT going to act like that.  Nor should they EVER expect them or want them too.  It’s an uphill painful battle.

my word is want48 - I want 48 more YA stories that don’t involve relationships and luuuuuuuv but engage and excite the kids and REMIND THEM that being kids is awesome too.

warning, spoilers of plots points within the Twilight Saga contained within this response. 

luxdancer

Stephenie Meyer is on record as talking quite a bit about her characters in less than glowing “oh, Edward is perfect” terms.  If you read the personal correspondence she wrote to the Twilight lexicon - she is pretty clear about the fact that 1. the Cullens are murderers, 2. they are criminals above and beyond just murder, 3. they are not living a life of repentance, yada yada yada - nor are they interested in this.  They have had to move several times over the past hundred years because family members have “oops, killed a human, and the family basically says, ‘try harder next time - we love you’”.  It is pretty interesting reading if you have any curiosity about this topic.  There are around 15 different long responses that she gave to multiple questions that fans have asked hat give a lot more background about all the characters and why they respond in different ways.  Also, quite a bit about moral hazard and the lack of morality to be found within the Cullen clan.

As for the interviews she gives that have been much more mainstream/widely disseminated - well, I think she is actually pretty cagey about how she describes Edward.  I think a big part of this is that her publisher chose to publish these books as YA and many of the (teenage) fans do in fact have those “ooh, it is so romantic, Edward is a dreamboat” view .  Stephenie Meyer has always said that she did not write this intending it to be a YA novel (or series) and that she wrote what she, 29 at the time she wrote Twilight, wanted to read. 

But in the interviews that I have read/watched with her - she states a few things over and over again.  1. She would never choose to be a vampire, 2. She thinks a lot of the choices Bella makes are terrible, but true to the character, 3. She (the author) loves both Jacob and Edward. 

I think there is a lot of nuance though to her love that doesn’t play very well in most kinds of conversations.  And as I think that Stephenie Meyer is a shrewd business woman as well as a great storyteller - I don’t think she is going to court controversy about the fact that while she loves Edward - he is still a damaged, disturbed individual.  It doesn’t seem like that would go over very well, and really doesn’t create a good soundbite.  That doesn’t change what she wrote and I am not the only person seeing these themes. 

I don’t think that my interpretation of the series is all that hidden in what is actually within the pages.  In fact, it is pretty explicit.  In Eclipse, Bella and Edward have a whole long conversation about how messed up/disturbing/damaged Wuthering Heights is (with Bella stating that the only redeeming part of that love story in her mind is Heathcliff and Cathy’s love for each other), and then go on later to describe their feelings for one another by quoting sections of the book to each other.  In New Moon - Bella talks about their relationship in terms of Romeo and Juliet and wonders to herself what would have happened if Romeo had dumped Juliet and Juliet had ended up married to Paris after all.  Would Juliet have been able to create an ok life with Paris?  Bella obviously doesn’t have to make that choice because both her ‘suicide’ attempt and Edward’s are foiled and they are given a chance to work through the misunderstanding as opposed to dying. 

Truly, I don’t think that an author who (in her works) describes the hero as “a stalker, a peeping tom, a murderer”, the heroine as “selfish, weak, obsessed” doesn’t see her characters as damaged and disturbed.  I think one of the powerful aspects of Meyer’s writing is that she clearly loves her characters with these flaws and allows them to have happiness.  I also think that the lack of judgement of the morality of what the characters choose to do is quite deliberate.  These are not 4 (soon to be 5) books about how awful it is that the Cullens and many of their vampire friends have killed and continue to kill innocent people.  As Kristen Stewart said in an interview, “These situations do not facilitate happy people”. But whether Bella and Edward are good, whether vampires (even vegetarian ones) should be contemplating moral hazard isn’t the point of the story. 

This story is one of two people who should not be together being together.  Both of them choosing exactly what most of us would say is exactly what they should not choose.  Over and over and over again.  And it working for them.  You know, as much as I was happy to see Bella become a vampire by the last book - I wouldn’t qualify that ending to be a “happy” one.  yes, Bella and Edward are happy and I think it is true to them as characters - but dude, she dies/becomes a vampire to be with this guy.  She is now potentially going to be a murderer (even if it is unlikely).  If one of the other Cullens slips and kills a human (as many of them have in the past) - I think it is pretty clear that she will be saying the same thing all of them have said at one time or another which is “Oops, we forgive you, lets move on”.  The unconditional love that the Cullens (as couples and as family) show to one another is all the more powerful for exemplifying both the disturbing/damaged/effed to all that aspects of their vampire family and the unbreakable bonds of love that they share. 

Ultimately, I think it interesting how many people bring up the idea of Edward and Bella not getting ‘punished’ enough as one of the reasons that the book isn’t good.  That somehow, they should have had to lose more than they did to make it ok that they get their HEA.  But as William Munny says, “Deserving’s got nothing to do with it”.  If we can suspend disbelief that super hot, super wealthy, criminal vampires are hanging out in Forks, Washington and fall in love with a human girl - I don’t really have a problem with them getting their improbable happy ending.  It seems life is always unfair in favor of hot, white wealthy people.  Why should this be any different?  It just seems like white privilege taken to a whole new level.  And Stephenie’s vampire canon (pretty different from the usual) would support most of it.

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

Oh, YUCK, I HATED that book. Just hated it. But I still love the Little House books. Just goes to illustrate how different people’s tastes are, I guess.

I don’t think this quote from salon.com hase been brought up yet:

Twilight succeeds at communicating the obsessive, narcotic interiority of all intense fantasy lives. Some imaginary worlds multiply, spinning themselves out into ever more elaborate constructs. Twilight retracts; it finds its voluptuousness in the hypnotic reduction of its attention to a single point: the experience of being loved by Edward Cullen.

Very intriguing. I can see why people would drink that up. Sounds kind of delicious, really.

Not to appear stupid, but why is there backlash?

theo, it’s my understanding (from watching the fandom backlash with irrepressible glee) that Breaking Dawn broke the Twilight fandom.

Somewhere between the “omg sex now plz,” the “must have babies to be Fulfilled Woman,” the Demon Death Baby Nessie, and the ex-imprints on infant child, Twilight fans got mad. It is my understanding that even among the hardcore fans, Breaking Dawn was almost universally disliked.

Reasons varied, from some feeling like SM was not true to her world, that the pedophilia/imprinting overtones were too much, just general wtf crackery badness…

And somehow, instead of just complaining about it, they ‘organized’ a vocal response in which unhappy fans encouraged each other to return their copies to their places of purchase. This, of course, led to some interesting discussions as to whether this mass return was a valid method of protest/voicing an opinion, or if it’s only theft.

Either way, most fandom involved individuals I’ve talked to were surprised by how strong the reaction has been; most people had never even thought about returning a book just because they didn’t like it, much less encouraging mass returns all across the country.

Oh, YUCK, I HATED that book. Just hated it. But I still love the Little House books. Just goes to illustrate how different people’s tastes are, I guess.

You are seriously the first person I’ve ever seen critisize Tam Lin.  I’ve heard praise from everywhere and figured I ought to read it, but it seems to be out of print (or never printed) in the UK. 

I haven’t read Twilight, but I did scan through the leaked chapters of Midnight Sun.  My favourite part is where he plots the murder of an entire classroom of people.  Romantic!

Lyra, THANK YOU! :D Gives me a much better idea. Makes me even happier that I passed on this series. I’m already disgusted with one author whose last two books felt like a betrayal to me however, I would never consider returning them!! I just won’t buy anymore!

CateM:

B&N;has Tam Lin in stock. Ships within 24 hours. $8.99 and it’s a reissue.

I started reading this series with a lot of optimism. And although I had a lot of problems with the feminist nightmare Bella was, I looked past it. I am 3/4 away from the end of Breaking Dawn, and I can barely stomach to finish it. The sexism is rampant within all the characters. I love frothy fun teen angst books, but having a female character that cannot live without a man’s attention is just pathetic.

And I hate to double-post, but I’d just like to respond to Sasha‘s description about the series.

Maybe you’re right about Twilight (and SM’s later reactions that Edward Cullen is one messed up MF), but I find it very hard to believe that there’s some hidden depth to it all, for two reasons:

1) Your mention of her correspondence is the first and only mention I’ve heard of where SM has less-than-glowing things to say about Edward Cullen. I have, however, seen many interviews where she calls Edward the “perfect man.” Where can this lexicon be found? I’m rather curious to see her give an alternate explanation for her character, especially given the sheer number of times she’s waxed poetic about his perfection.

2) In my own opinion, the Twilight books simply weren’t that well written. The research was shoddy; the prose was clunky at best and mindnumbingly painful at worst; and her characters all felt one-dimensional and flat; and her pacing was atrocious. I’m not saying that poorly constructed stories can’t be deep, but it is twice, maybe three times, as hard to believe the depth being attributed to Stephenie Meyer’s writing than I would to something that had more depth in its prose and construction. Or maybe this part is a product of talked to Twilight fans. I find it hard to believe anyone’s writing can be deep when even their most fervent fans claim it is nothing but fuffy, trashy, escapist reading.

Still, it is a different perspective, and makes me want to reread the first from a purely analytical point of view, to see if maybe there is something more buried under all the sparkling.

WHOOO! that was my reaction to your giving Twilight a D+.  I agree with EVERYTHING you said, so this comment is pointless, but just so you know, WHOOO!  I hated this book and it makes me angry (yaa obsessing) that people like it so much and go so far as to compare it to Harry Potter.  I’m not going to let myself rant here, so I’ll stop here.  Again, WHOOO!

No opinion on these books or their author, though my 14 year old is gulping them like Sour Punch Straws.

Kudos, though, to those of you who said you were vetting these books for a young relative. Brava!

Somewhere between the “omg sex now plz,” the “must have babies to be Fulfilled Woman,” the Demon Death Baby Nessie, and the ex-imprints on infant child, Twilight fans got mad. It is my understanding that even among the hardcore fans, Breaking Dawn was almost universally disliked.

Yeah.  I have friends who read the book and hated it so much that they returned it to the bookshop for store credit.

Lyra

You can find her personal correspondence on the Twilight lexicon, link below:

http://www.twilightlexiconblog.com/?page_id=4

I will admit to having watched/read quite a few interviews with Stephenie Meyer and off hand, I cannot recall a single one where she says that Edward Cullen is the perfect man.  She does talk a lot about him being a ‘gentleman’, that she loves him, that she can understand why he is so attractive, that she has him kiss Bella’s neck more often than her mouth becuase S Meyer’s thinks it is sexier but I can’t recall her saying he is the perfect man.  She has said she wouldn’t choose Edward and wouldn’t be a vampire which seems to negate the idea of him being the “perfect man” in her view.
 
But hey, I would love to read more Stephenie, so please direct me to these interviews because it would be interesting to read them.

I read and enjoyed the first three books but have no interest in Breaking Dawn (although I’ve loved the satires of it).  Doesn’t mean I don’t see the flaws, however, but enjoyed them nonetheless.  I don’t think Meyer is a great writer, but I do think she’s a very good storyteller—she creates a world, draws you in, and has you turning the pages feverishly to find out What Happens Next. 

Maybe it’s because I don’t have daughters and it’s been a long time since my own angsty teen years, but I didn’t think of Edward’s behavior as stalkerish.  I did find Bella annoyingly one dimensional and whiny.  Her only attribute seemed to be her obsession with Edward, and it didn’t make me think well of him that he was so drawn to her.  OTOH, that’s a not infrequent aspect of romance novels (and, to be sure, Real Life), where you wonder “what does he/she see in her/him?”

I think one of the reasons teenage girls like Edward so much is because he is everything the real boys in their lives are not:  polite, rich, astonishingly handsome, and controlled.  Edward doesn’t hold belching contests with his friends, or bond over first person shooter video games, or push sexually farther than Bella is willing to go.  Bella never has to worry that Edward will want more than she’s willing to give.  I remember reading of studies that said that girls have sex sooner than they want to because they feel pressured to do so, but in Twilight it’s Edward who says no.  So as dangerous as vampires may theoretically be, in many ways Edward is far safer than the real teenage boy who sits next to the YA reader in biology class. 

Spamfilter = word17 A lot of words have been written about these 17 y.o.

Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed these books—any clue as to why they are so freaking popular?

Stephanie Meyers won the publishing/word-of-mouth lottery.  She did nothing to deserve it or earn it, she just won it.  Good for her, more power to her.

It’s a continual mystery to me why some product will be insanely popular, and the better product will languish.  (VHS vs beta?  chia pets? pet rocks? vs something else that has languished its way out of my consciousness)  Is it marketing, fluke? Act of god(s)?

The comments I’ve been reading have been reminding me of the shitstorm unleashed by the publication of J.R. Ward’s Lover Enshrined.  Lots of fans (including me) of not-terribly-well-done books.  They are literary crack.  I deeply enjoy them, but I don’t expect much from them.  But there were a LOT of people who felt OMGbeTRAYed! by the story.

Maybe Meyers plugged into that same crack-muse.  Maybe the publishers are slipping heroin into the ink.  Does anyone have statistics on how many fans do the lick-finger-to-turn-page trick?

Sasha,

Thanks for the link. As to the “perfect man” comments, here’s two I found on a quick google search (ironically, neither of them is the one I read before. The one I saw first compared Edward to a couple of the ‘great’ romantic heroes and claims he’s better than all of them because he’s perfect, if that helps any?):

http://chbookstore.qwestoffice.net/fa2006-08.html
“Edward is too perfect to exist in reality” (At least she agrees that he wouldn’t exist in real life)
“I have these perfect men in my head all the time”

And from Newsweek: http://www.newsweek.com/id/148993
Q: Edward is so perfect—you’ve ruined regular men for a lot of teens. Do you feel bad?
A: Oh, a little bit, I guess. I just wanted to write for myself, a fantasy. And that’s what Edward is. But it could be a good thing, too. There’s nothing wrong with having high expectations, right?

With the second one, one might say that Meyer didn’t explicitly say he was perfect, that the interviewer put words in her mouth, but if she really felt that he wasn’t perfect, that he was this deeply flawed character, wouldn’t she have corrected the interviewer? Maybe something like “Well, he’s not perfect, he’s a sociopathic stalker, but he’s pretty hot.”

The person, incidentally, who commented that the Cullens didn’t suffer any consequences for their slip-ups wasn’t Meyer. It was Tennyo. Meyer goes on to excuse everything her vampires do; biological imperative for blood-drinking, whatever. And points out how “good” the Cullens are for even trying to not eat humans and for viewing humans as good. [Personal Correspondence #12]

As for Edward killing lots of people, see Personal Correspondence #12:

A note on Edward’s victims: we’re not talking about some guy who killed his wife ten years ago and has a guilty conscience. We’re talking about serial killers and serial rapists. He always hunted the hunters. As he says in the first chapter of Midnight Sun: “My victims were, in their various dark pastimes, barely more human than I was.”

I cannot recall a single one where she says that Edward Cullen is the perfect man.

Stephenie Meyer: “WHAT IF… What if true love left you? Not some ordinary high school romance, not some random jock boyfriend, not anyone at all replaceable. True love. The real deal. Your other half, your true soul’s match. What happens if he leaves?

  The answer is different for everyone. Juliet had her version, Marianne Dashwood had hers, Isolde and Catherine Earnshaw and Scarlet O’Hara and Anne Shirley all had their ways of coping.

  I had to answer the question for Bella. What does Bella Swan do when true love leaves her? Not just true love, but Edward Cullen! None of those other heroines lost an Edward (Romeo was a hothead, Willoughby was a scoundrel, Tristan had loyalty issues, Heathcliff was pure evil, Rhett had a mean streak and cheated with hookers, and sweet Gilbert was much more of a Jacob than an Edward). So what happens when True Love in the form of Edward Cullen leaves Bella?”

Gag.

How long before fandom_wank picks this up?

Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

Really? I love Sunshine, but I don’t think it’s YA. I’d probably rec it to older teens, but there’s some stuff in it that’s maybe not appropriate for younger readers (ditto Deerskin, imo). Also, the protag is in her twenties.

Handyhunter

How long before fandom_wank picks this up?

I know!

Sorry, sorry. I’d edit if I could, instead of double posting.

Pattinson has almost convinced me to watch this movie with his comments:

Heh. He has also called Edward a moron and likened him to a piece of cheese.

I liked Breaking Dawn. It was cracktastic! And the lulz are making it even more entertaining, especially, but not limited to, Growing Up Cullen (which, per the leaked chapters of Midnight Sun, is canon now!).

handyhunter,
Thanks! That was the one I was talking about. Sure, she doesn’t use the exact words “perfect man”, but it’s implied with the force of a wrecking ball to the brain, isn’t it?

Lyra

Ok, the first link you provided when Stephenie Meyer says that Edward is perfect squicked me out.  Majorly.  Unless (oh please I wish I could truly believe it) she just meant that he was perfect for the freakfest that is Bella.  Unfortunately, I don’t think I can really believe that.  Though, thanks for the link because I had never read that article and the ones I read seemed to have the interviewer suggesting perfection and Stephenie not challenging (much like the 2nd article you provided) - which I thought was her being cagey, not her agreeing.  Like she did in many interviews about subjects that came up in later books.

For the record, though, I still stand by my interpretation of the books and why they are interesting - sadly, I may well have to let go of the belief that Stephenie Meyer completely meant to make them this way.  I have to admit I wish I could believe that she meant for it to be as disturbing as it is because as I have said from the get go - it is way disturbing and that was the interesting part for me.

Though, Handyhunter, the quote you provided doesn’t so much negate my original theory.  Few of those stories ended well, and many of them had pretty unappealing or unsympathetic characters.  And yet they are still considered to be romantic classics.  Which would still come down to S Meyers (intentionally or not) giving a HEA to the damaged characters who usually lose everything. 

luxdancer

Thanks for the catch, but actually I was more thinking about this quote from Stephenie about what happens after one of the Cullens killed an innocent human

Do the Cullens feel bad when, let’s say Emmett, accidentally kills that person who sets a fire in his throat, the “singers” in his past (“singers” is a relative term by the way. They range from mildly more appealing to five alarm fires)? Of course they do. They mourn what they’ve done. They recommit to their cause. They do better in the future. The family of the victim never sees them or knows of their involvement. If the Cullens wallow (and they have), does that make one thing better or worse for the mourners? Answer: it has no effect on their pain either way.

None of them have been disowned from the family or shunned for killing a person.  They have felt bad, been told to recommit and the family moves to a new location to start over after making sure that their move won’t trigger suspicion on any of them for the disappearance of the dead person.  Sounds pretty forgiving and unconditional to me

Also in Correspondence #12 she talks about the huge difference between the Cullens and other vampires making the Cullens good.  I thought she meant that in comparison to other vampires who look at humans the same way most human look at cattle - the Cullens still attempt to look at them as human.

The Cullens do not look down on humans. Other Twilight vampires see humans as beef or poultry, it’s true. And it’s a hard viewpoint to resist—after all, vampires are physically and mentally superior to the nth degree. Their life spans measure in centuries and millenniums. Human lives are so short—sort of like fruit flies that only live a day in comparison. Humans die so easily, too, in their sleep, from tripping, from a tiny heart glitch, from a virus, from getting bumped a little too hard by a car. It’s sort of hard for an average vampire to take them seriously. They’re going to die soon anyway, right? (I know it might be difficult to step away from a human perspective and see it through their eyes. The question is, is it really wrong for them to see the world that way? Vampires are at the very pinnacle of the food chain. Should they feel bad about that? Or are they simply following the dictates of nature?)
The Cullens struggle to reject that viewpoint. They work (and it is work) to hold on to their human perception of the world. Are they arrogant about it? Some of them, at times. As it has been argued already, maybe you would start to feel a bit superior, too, if you were smarter and faster and stronger than everyone around you (let alone intimately aware of all their petty thoughts). Most humans I know who are great athletes or geniuses have a strong streak of arrogance in their personality (men in particular—sorry, boys, but it’s true). It seems hard to avoid.

When I thought that Stephenie was actually writing more purposefully than she may have been doing, I thought that part of what she was exploring was the idea that good people can do horrible things and not lose that parts that made them ‘good’.  I still believe that it part of what she was exploring, and again I do think it gets into nuance.  Can Edward be an obsessed, stalk ing murderer and still love his family and Bella?  Can Carlisle be good as a doctor who has saved countless lives and is gentle even though he was turning people into vampires for several years, condemning them to life as a vampire?  Again - something interesting within the books that I thought was much more intentional than it may or may not have been.

As to Edward being kind of damaged/disturbed and Stephenie understand this

Another Edward point: Edward was never trying to be a superhero—some darker version of the dark knight. That was not his purpose. He was rationalizing, pure and simple. Edward was tired of being in pain, but no so far gone that he would hunt innocents. Back to the burning hand metaphor—he was determined to quench the fire, but for his conscience’s sake, he was going to be particular about which bucket of ice water he used. He was not so much of a vampire after being “raised” by Carlisle that he could be cavalier about it. But he doesn’t share Carlisle’s faith to think he’s got anything to lose in the process. Hopelessness + pain = compromise.

The relative morality of this is something that she is clearly aware of.  And the quote you picked out seems to be more Stephenie trying to rationalize her own feelings towards Edward much the same way he tried to as well.  It still makes him damaged and disturbed.  He was rationalizing the fact of wanting to be a murderer.  It doesn’t make him less of a murderer.  The interesting part is that Stephenie then tries to forgive it and in the book, so does Bella, saying something to the effect of “Well, that seems pretty understandable to want to rebel against the strictures your vampire dad set up.”  Again, seems to prove my thoughts on how damaged Bella along with Edward and how much she is willing to forgive/overlook because she wants to be with him.

Thanks for all the interesting quotes and links - I hope I used the quote function correctly.

I had to laugh when I heard people hated Breaking Dawn so much they were returning it for a refund, because that’s what I did with this book. 500+ pages of me waiting for something to happen, and when I got to the end, I went, “Huh? You mean that’s it?”

Meyer’s prose was competent, but nothing remarkable. I think I fell asleep a couple of times when I was reading it.

Although I still haven’t gotten over the vampires playing baseball!

Hey, I can hold the theory that the entire saga was the product of a meth-addicted girl who lost her grip on reality, descending into a fantasy world of her own creation in order to escape the brutal reality of her life.

That doesn’t make it the truth (in this case, the story that SMeyer was trying to tell).

I am reminded of a brilliant interpretation of that horrible Lindsay Lohan picture, I Know Who Killed Me, which delved right into Lynchian symbolism. However, it didn’t detract from the fact that the movie was a pile of steaming manure even if the original intent of the filmmakers was the interpretation of that one viewer.

luxdancer,

I know!

And it’s there!

That doesn’t make it the truth (in this case, the story that SMeyer was trying to tell).

Yeah. I don’t see what’s subversive at all by giving two Mary Sues a HEA.

And I am not arguing with the fact that Edward is, in fact, a deranged sociopath. My argument is that Meyer wrote him to be a hunkahunka burnin’ love with the tortured angst of a classic bad boy wrapped in a vampire shell without realizing that her character was REALLY FRACKING CREEPY.

I remember reading somewhere that Meyer said she identified more with Edward than with Bella. I’ll have to go find that quote.

And here’s the quote, from SMeyer’s interview with MTV for Twilight Tuesday.

MTV: Which character do you relate to more: Edward or Bella?

Meyer: I think they all have little pieces of me. It was pretty natural for me to write [the books] from the perspective of a human female, because I am one. But I’m doing it again [with “Midnight Sun”], and I think Edward’s perspective actually suits me a bit more. He sees the world similarly to me. He sees very black-and-white. He has a lot of rules for himself. He has his life very much orchestrated. Bella’s just like, “Whatever goes. As long as you’re not bothering anyone else, just do what you want to do.” So I relate more to his perspective of the world.

I don’t think Meyer sees Edward as a sociopath. I think she sees him as a Perfect Man with Bad Boy (tm) flaws that are designed to make him more appealing. He kills people? Yeah, but they were all murderers and serial killers. He stalks Bella and destroys her car? It’s okay, because they’re in lurve.

And he’s morally superior because he’s not having any premarital sex.

If only Midnight Sun were narrated by fratboy!Emmett…

Spot on!

I have nothing more to say, except to wonder if there will be any reviews for the other three in the series? (Despite what they claim, this is not a “saga”.)

Suze wrote:

The comments I’ve been reading have been reminding me of the shitstorm
unleashed by the publication of J.R. Ward’s Lover Enshrined. Lots of
fans (including me) of not-terribly-well-done books. They are literary
crack. I deeply enjoy them, but I don’t expect much from them. But there
were a LOT of people who felt OMGbeTRAYed! by the story.

The shitstorm as you call it, is not because I felt betrayed by the story. I felt betrayed by the AUTHOR who marketed the book as a romance. EVERYTHING screamed Romance! The great romance, hot, steamy, passionate, whatever you want to call it, between Phury and his shellan. Emails galore, her message board, the marketing, the back blurb even (yes, I know the author has little control over that but…) all screaming romance for a character so many of her fans were dying to read about.

And what do we get? Maybe 100 pages from a 500 page book that had the H/Hn in them, and half that time, the Hn sat around in a room alone playing with toothpicks and peas!

I would never have been upset had the author, whose elite message board is a farce in itself, fessed up that she was changing genres mid-stream and don’t expect much romance anymore because her secondary characters were taking over the story line and she was turning to UF. I just wouldn’t have bothered to waste my time because that’s not my cuppa but would at least have appreciated her honesty to her fans.

Her first four were not perfect by any means, but they had the right amount of romance, action and angst and a world that sucked us in. The last two were crap, each an advertisement for the next book in the series, and nothing more.

The book didn’t betray those fans who were sucked into her world. SHE did. It’s that simple. Consequently, I have never returned a book, but will waste no more money on hers.

As for the SM stuff, as I said, I haven’t read them because of personal reasons, but it does sound to me like she’s a bit Wardish in that her characters are almost too real for her. No matter what we write, and yes, most authors will say the characters ‘speak’ to them, I have lately read a few who are convinced the character actually sits across the table from them while they write.

That’s scary!

“cattiness. Sorry. CC was at the heart of what I’m pretty sure was the first really major plagiarism scandal in the Harry Potter fandom. It annoys many that she went on to become a published writer.”

I didn’t know any of that. City of Bones seemed very derivative but I wasn’t aware of any direct plagiarism. And let’s just say, I haven’t rushed to buy number 2 in that series - Twilight and New Eclipse Dawn Moon taught me that much.

But I think that’s the problem with the whole vampire genre. I’ve tried a few, but the only world that ever sank any claws in me were the Charlaine Harris Sookie Stackhouse books. I think Whedon has spoiled me for paranormals and especially high school type paranormals. When I think of the great women in BTVS/Angel - Buffy of course, but Faith, Anya, Cordy, Fred, Willow, Glory, Dawn…. well, Bella comes off as utterly tedious and charmless. Nothing I’ve seen in book form about vamps compares to the Whedonverse. Symbolically/metaphorically rich, witty, twisted, funny, compassionate and layered.

The books I kept thinking of as preferable reads to Twilight - Annette Curtis Klause’s ‘Silver Kiss’ and ‘Blood and Chocolate’, Robin McKinley’s ‘Sunshine’, L.J. Smith’s fabulously junky ‘Forbidden Game’ with her hypnotic twilight-eyed antihero - have all been brought up here already.  Librarians, take note - you could do a great YA display with this lot…

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

While I enjoyed parts of this book very much indeed, my primary emotion at the end was anger—at the author, whose attitude I felt was both intellectually arrogant and condescending toward her readers.  It seemed to me that long stretches of the narrative were nothing more than Ms Dean saying, “See how clever and educated I am!  I know all about obscure Elizabethan playwrights, literature, and philosophy, and if you don’t share my passion for these things you’re not worthy of my respect and consideration!”  I did find it a very imaginative retelling of the ballad, but thought it could have been cut down by about half without losing anything relevant to the story.

I agree with so many of the comments and they said it so much better than I would. I must say it did appeal to me initially cause I am a sucker for the ordinary girl getting the mysterious, fabulous guy that all the other girls want (i.e. Hairspray!!!!! the original with Ricki Lake). But if you want to read a really good book about vampires check out Marked, Betrayed, Chosen, and coming next month Untamed by P.C. and Kristin Cast. I read the first one after Twilight and it blows Twilight out of the water. There should be a huge fangirl movement for this series. It is awesome. There is however more sex since the main character is 16.

I didn’t know any of that. City of Bones seemed very derivative but I wasn’t aware of any direct plagiarism. And let’s just say, I haven’t rushed to buy number 2 in that series - Twilight and New Eclipse Dawn Moon taught me that much.

It’s worth noting that, to my knowledge, no one’s done a real study of Clare’s novels to see if she was still pulling the same stunts, but I do believe there were a lot of us who saw the passages from her fics compared with works by Pamela Dean and others, and were appalled.  People started looking more closely at her fics and started finding more and more passages that were lifted.  She would take lines from Buffy and a plethora of other shows, often without giving proper credit.  When she did attempt to credit the wittiest lines of her fics to other people, the credits were often incomplete or just plain incorrect.  (As of a couple years ago, there were still websites that attributed these funny lines to her instead of to Buffy, Hitchhiker’s Guide, Blackadder, and a whole host of sources.)  It made it really difficult to trust that anything she posted was really hers.

In my opinion, it really looked like she didn’t understand that saying something was “inspired” by another’s writing does not, under any circumstances, mean you’ve lifted page after page of another’s writing.

If you want to read an account written by the person who first spoke up about the plagiarism, start reading here.  There are links at the end of each post to navigate to the next one.  You might want to skip the part on the fandom’s complete explosion once CC was banned from fanfiction.net, but if you’re interested in the dynamics of online communities (Harry Potter fandom at the time was much like Twilight fandom is now, if you ask me), that part is worth reading.  And if you’ve got a lot of time to kill, check out the comments too.  ;)

You are seriously the first person I’ve ever seen critisize Tam Lin.  I’ve heard praise from everywhere and figured I ought to read it, but it seems to be out of print (or never printed) in the UK.

The reason I disliked the book so much is basically the same reason Elizabeth Wadsworth did.  I remember my reaction to the book being something like: Oh, look, a bunch of self-indulgent and boring college kids wander around quoting Shakespeare at each other! Wow! So exciting! Look, more quotes! Don’t these kids have anything original to say? No, apparently not.

YAWN.

And,

GRRRRR.

Very condescending, very empty, very meaningless, and in the end I had no reason to care about these characters who mostly just seemed to enjoy hearing themselves talk. Yuck. And I almost worry that people will think I’m being anti-intellectual and that’s why I didn’t like the book, but please, no, that’s not it. I’m being anti-intellectual when I don’t like Thomas Pynchon. I hated “Tam Lin” because the characters were just so awful, and the book felt so masturbatory. It’s not intellectual. It’s just wanking.

But the premise was pretty cool! Tam Lin in an Eastern (?) college in the 60s! Kinda fun. Too bad the characters themselves were so worthless.

I actually got so fed up with this book that I ditched it on the cruise ship where I read it, hoping to never see it again. I was disgusted with Edward’s sparkly vampire nonsense and Bella’s bull.

The cruise ship mailed it back to me.

Luckily we were doing yard work at the time, so there was a convenient trench for the sprinkler system where I buried it.

    Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

I don’t think it is either, especially since when I found my copy, it was in the regular scifi/fantasy section, not the YA section.

I found it in HORROR.  :-)

I used to read ‘Tam Lin’ every year as my university exams approached to remind myself why I’d chosen to study literature.  Every time I read it, I remember that heady sensation of being an undergraduate with difficult flatmates, temperamental professors and a boyfriend who often seemed a mystery to me, and being half-drunk on good literature all the while - I think that this is what Pamela Dean was trying to convey, and she did it very well.  I honestly didn’t see any intellectual wankery or condescension, and after nine years in academia, I can usually spot it at a mile away.

My main problem with the book was the way that it spent forever dawdling through Janet’s first year, and galloped wildly through her final year.  I wish it was longer, to be honest.

I found it in HORROR.  :-)

Same here, after looking for it in all the other usual McKinley sections - YA & SF/F.

It’s being re-released with a new cover! (via Robin McKinley’s blog)  The US version is similar, but the girl is centered and I think smaller/farther away.

I wish it was longer, to be honest.

Me too. I quite like Dean’s Tam Lin. I don’t think it’s a perfect book, but I liked the characters, especially the very prickly Janet.  And given who the characters were, the way they talked didn’t bother me. Half the fun of the book was trying to figure out where all the quotations/allusions were from.

I started reading the Twilight books before I’d heard the hoopla.  Somehow I had the second book on my TBR pile.  I got the other two out at the time and read them and liked them.  I just enjoyed them for the story and not any political/sociological message that might have been there.  But the best part was that I got my 15-year-old daughter to read them, and she hates to read ANYTHING.  She liked them so much that she begged me to get Breaking Dawn.  I’m just glad she’s reading SOMETHING that’s not a comic book.  Not that there’s anything wrong with a comic book, but she doesn’t get any school credit for reading them, and she will get credit for these.

Not that there’s anything wrong with a comic book, but she doesn’t get any school credit for reading them, and she will get credit for these.

That’s too bad. Joss Whedon’s Astonishing X-Men, as an example, is much, much, much better than Meyer’s series, both plot and character-wise. Theme-wise too. And writing-wise. The artwork is great as well. Highly recommend.

I’m just glad she’s reading SOMETHING that’s not a comic book.

I’m an avid reader of books both comic and not, but I did go through that phase in high school where I read more of one than the other.  Are we talking american comics? Because I could recommend many very smart ones that have a reading level over Twilight.  If she’s reading manga (japanese comics) then it’s been a while since I was in fandom, but I could probably point out the smarter ones that were around back in my day (erm….seven years ago).

My advice is to buy her The Princess Bride (novel).  It’s intelligent, hilarious, and has a love story everyone can enjoy.  It was my favorite book when I was fifteen, and is still in my top 5 now.  Maybe it can bridge the gap between Twilight and the books that are worthwile.

I honestly didn’t see any intellectual wankery or condescension, and after nine years in academia, I can usually spot it at a mile away

Me either. I first read Tam Lin as a *very* well-read fifteen-year-old, and it was like a revelation. It made me believe there were other people out there who were like me: who read too much—gulping down books like their peers gulped down Coke or whatever—and remembered quotes and liked to use them and occasionally used them against others.

Even now, almost fifteen years later and with over a decade of academia under my belt (counting undergrad), I still look at this book and delight in identifying the quotations (when I can) and revel in the headiness of that feeling I had as a teenager. Intertextuality is not intellectual wankery.

Dean does have serious pacing problems—in all of her novels, actually, which is why Tam Lin is the only one I really love. And I love it unabashedly—for its sheer delight in literature, it’s almost unrivaled, particularly on the fantasy shelves.

I honestly didn’t see any intellectual wankery or condescension, and after nine years in academia, I can usually spot it at a mile away

Holy wow.  Me neither, either.  No years in academia (except as support staff, and I can totally recognize wankery, having been subjected to it on an almost-daily basis). Many of the literary references blew right past me.  Others caused me to go looking (and I have to say Ouroubouros was not a pleasurable attempt to read for me).  I didn’t feel condescended to at all, I felt included into a group of weird friends. Not the cool kids, but the strange ones who hung around outside the drama class, with the funky hair and courageous choices in clothing.

I did remind me of the phase my siblings and I went through where we would have entire conversations consisting solely of Monty Python quotes.  And they made sense, too.

But, as someone upstream said, it just goes to show how tastes differ.

I enjoyed Twilight well enough. Granted, I didn’t read it with any sort of thought as to how stalkerish Edward’s behaviour was or how much of a limp-rag heroine Bella turned into. I admit to be very disappointed that the conflict that showed so much premise - Edward’s craving of Bella’s blood - took a backseat to an action plot that came out of nowhere in the last third of the story. IMO, Meyer had a gold mine on her hands with the whole forbidden love premise and dropped the ball on it. Especially given that Edward completely mastered his ability to control that craving that the conflict disappeared in a tiny poof of smoke.

However, after having read New Moon (it was meh), Eclipse (hated it with a passion) and only a third of Breaking Dawn (couldn’t get any farther than that), any pleasure I’d gotten out of Twilight is gone. Bella turned into a girl I’d cross the street to avoid, Edward became a doormat, and the forced love triangle so much damaged the soul-mates aspect of Bella and Edward’s relationship that I can now no longer enjoy Twilight. It’s like I’ve seen behind the Wizard’s magic curtain and found out he’s a balding fat guy. I should have stopped reading at Twilight and called it a guilty pleasure.

I give props to Meyer for putting out four commercially successful books because becoming a published author is a great accomplishment, love or hate the finished product. But I’ve said it before in other places; every time the comparison is made between Meyer and JK Rowling, I wince. Not. Even. In. The. Same. Universe.

It’s being re-released with a new cover! (via Robin McKinley’s blog) The US version is similar, but the girl is centered and I think smaller/farther away.

Noooo Ms. McKinley.  SEQUEL.  Not re-release.  SEQUEL.

I found Sunshine in the general fiction section.  The staff turned the store upside down looking for it, half convinced the only copy had been stolen by some unscrupulous vampire/baked goods fan.

I dont know why, but i really did enjoy the series, yes, even though Belle was a clutz.

It’s being re-released with a new cover! (via Robin McKinley’s blog) The US version is similar, but the girl is centered and I think smaller/farther away.

Really? I didn’t see it on her blog.  Interesting.

Dean does have serious pacing problems—in all of her novels, actually, which is why Tam Lin is the only one I really love

I wouldn’t disagree with that, although I actually like the weird pacing of Tam Lin.  The slow crawl through freshman year, and then the way each following year is shorter and shorter?  That’s absolutely representative of what college felt like to me.  So despite the fact that it made the PLOT pacing weird, as a novel where its major draw is the representation of the college experience, I think it works very well.

I haven’t reread TL in a few years; I should do that.  And actually it’s a nice counterpoint to Twilight, given that the basic plot is rather similar, with young innocent girl falling in love with a boy who’s a lot older and far weirder than he seems at first.  Although I would suggest that Janet wins her victory at the end rather more fairly than Bella does—Janet uses her wits and her love and her determination, at least two of which Bella appears to be lacking.

Noooo Ms. McKinley.  SEQUEL.  Not re-release.  SEQUEL.

Wouldn’t that be awesome? She did give out this little tidbit about Pegasus (2009): “Although I was quite a way into PEGASUS before I discovered that it has something rather significant to do with another of my books.  No, of course I’m not going to tell you which one, or what the significance is.”

I’m thinking it’s more likely to be a Damar connection, though, which is just fine by me.

Really? I didn’t see it on her blog.  Interesting.

Here’s the blog entry.

I’m thinking it’s more likely to be a Damar connection, though, which is just fine by me.

Really? I didn’t see it on her blog.  Interesting.

Here’s the blog entry.

Thanks! Guess I didn’t go back far enough.}:)  Nice cover.}:)

Pattinson because he hated Edward so much[/quote

This from a man who when asked what he wanted to be called chose Ransom Spunk or Spunk Ransom for a name.

I read all of the books except for Breaking Dawn and really liked them.  And after having read many romance novels I don’t really think that Edward Cullen is the worst hero or stalker that you could come up with.  I’d be more worried about the historical heroes who would do anything to get the heroine, even ruin her reputation and her life.  Paranormals also have worse stalkers and general creepiness factors than the Twilight series.  As for Bella being weak, not every woman in the world is a kick-butt heroine so it’s nice to have a story about a somewhat average girl.

I wouldn’t disagree with that, although I actually like the weird pacing of Tam Lin.  The slow crawl through freshman year, and then the way each following year is shorter and shorter?  That’s absolutely representative of what college felt like to me.

That’s completely true, and it’s one reason why the pacing doesn’t really *bother* me that much. I notice it, but it’s never, ever disturbed my enjoyment of the book.

I never thought of the TL/Twilight comparison. There is a certain similarity there, but I think I’ll come down on TL’s side every time.  Of course, I always thought Thomas was just your average human—unlike Nick, who is far older and far stranger. Isn’t that why Thomas is the sacrifice? (Oh, for a novel all about Medeous’s little clan…)

(By the way…um…are you *that* cofax? Who was in Farscape fandom back in the day, and in XF in ye olde Internet Bronze Age before that?)

I’m just glad she’s reading SOMETHING that’s not a comic book.  Not that there’s anything wrong with a comic book, but she doesn’t get any school credit for reading them, and she will get credit for these.

Not even for graphic novels like “Persepolis”?  :-(

(heh—i wish I had “53 ideas”— then I’d give novel-writing a go)

You were saying you don’t understand the popularity—for an excellent (imo) theory as to why, see Cleolinda’s review of the first book.

Oh, and another thing—as far as Bella’s willingness for self-exile? How about the fact that she wants to *die and become a vampire for him*, at which point she won’t be able to see any of her family or friends again. Ever. And what happens after you’ve been with him for two years, sweetheart, and the sparkle’s worn off and you really wish you’d gone to college? Yep, you’ll regret it then.

Glad I’m not the only one. Working at a chain bookstore, I voluntarily read it to keep up with the Jones’ and be prepped for the release party. Not to mention that EVERY other female (ranging from 19 to 48 years old) told me the books were awesome and I would LOVE them. My other coworker who was simultaneously jumping on the Bella bandwagon quit at page 385. She said she just couldn’t take it anymore. I felt the same way, but plowed through. And lo and behold there was a small blip of a plotline in the last 100 pages of the book! And I was STILL disappointed. Even my inner thirteen year old was telling Bella to shut her yap and Edward to grow a pair. I guess I just didn’t get it.
And more than half of the the big Twilight fans at work totally hated Breaking Dawn.

Stephenie Meyer: Midnight Sun “on hold indefinitely”.

handyhunter, you beat me to it!

I am laughing so hard I am making myself sick.

I am chagrined, I tell you. Chagrined!

How long before she writes that she’s going to finish the book because she received so many pleas from fans to do so?

And who leaked MS? SM, herself? R.Pattz? An editor?

From the tone of her whining, I am going to hazard a guess that it was someone from the Twilight movie. If it were R.Pattz, I would love him forever (I already kind of love him for the creaming comment).

You know, the last place I saw this kind of juvenile hissyfit was on Fanfiction.net, average citizen age: 12

Someone forced me to listen to Stephanie Meyers reading the “Books on Tape” version of Twilight.

My ears burned. Burned, I tell you. It especially didn’t help that someone gave me a description of how Stephanie Meyers envisions Bella looking like, and then gave me a picture of Stephanie Meyers herself. It was like hearing the manic-depressive teenaged girl who thinks that her ability to wallow in self-pity makes her the best darned girl on the planet talking about paint dry. Blech.

No matter how any of us feel about the book Twilight, I would think everyone here would understand why an author would be upset over having her work illegally distributed.  It is theft, pure and simple.

I would think a site (and it members) who rallied around Nora Roberts when her work was plagiarized and those affected by Cassie Edwards thefts within her books could understand why any author would be hurt and upset to have through work taken without permission and posted. 

Quite frankly, I am disappointed by the response here.  Theft is theft - whether you like the author’s books or not.  And this has nothing to do with age or maturity.  To think of anyone laughing over this author’s pain is actually pretty pathetic.

Sasha,

I agree with you that theft of anyone’s material is very hurtful and disturbing to any author however, in this case, I wonder if she’s using this as an excuse to not go further at this time because of the backlash of this latest book.

If it were me (and I read a few excerpts. Thank God, it’s not! I think I write better than that!) it would fuel me enough to want to finish the book and make it the best possible, not abandon it because I’m traumatized.

control48…that’s my word, something I bet she wished she’d had more of when she was passing out those MS

I am wincing for her.  I know what my first drafts look like, and I wouldn’t want hordes of people getting their hands on them; I can also see why she might be put off finishing the book entirely.  Exposing a work of fiction in the embryonic stages could kill off gestation altogether.

Quite frankly, I am disappointed by the response here

To be fair, Sasha, the “response here” comes from two people whose voices do not necessarily represent the majority of SB commentors or the ladies themselves.

While I do think Meyer’s post was pretty funny (simply for its resemblance to a standard fandom flounce), I really do feel for her, and I was slightly uncomfortable myself with Lyra and handyhunter’s comments. (Though it’s not theft so much as it is…what? Illegal previewing? Well, maybe copyright infringement. Halp! IANAL!!)

theo

Seeing as she could have made mad money (backlash or no) on the re-write of a book that most people, even those who hated the last one, loved…it seems particularly mean spirited to assume that the reason she put the project on indefinite hold was out of some sort of, “Oh, thank goodness I now have a reason to drop this” philosophy.  While I understand many people don’t like her work, and think her writing is awful - she clearly works hard on it and is very proud if it.  Just like any of us who write (well or not).  And I think selling over 10 million books would make one realize that their work is well loved, even if their latest effort had a mixed reaction.

You might continue to work on the project, I might continue to work on the project - but to ascribe less than generous motives to the victim of theft on how she reacts is pretty sorry.  To tell someone that they should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps the same week their trust was violated and their hard work was stolen and distributed in a manner that is not what they wanted is sorry.

I have to say that I thought her message (and her willingness to put the Midnight Sun draft out for people to read) was quite gracious.  Honest as well.  Perhaps when she has longer to think about this, she will feel differently. 

But I think one thing is clear - she is a best selling author who is still going to have absolutely no problem selling her next work.  Whether or not everyone who bought her last book liked it or hated it.

snarkhunter

In no way was I implying that all people here felt the same way as Lyra and handyhunter.  However, I also hadn’t seen anyone else respond to their comments.  And I stand by my response that I was disappointed by that attitude being displayed by anyone who reads/comments here.

One of the reasons I love this site is the strong line that SB Sarah and Candy have taken towards plagiarism and copyright infringement.  My assumption when I first heard about the leak is that neither of them would think it was funny or take it lightly, whih I still believe wholeheartedly.  I guess one of the reasons I was so disappointed with the glee/schadenfreude some here expressed is that I would think this would be the last site that anyone would feel it is ok to take pleasure in an author having their work appropriated without their permission.

Please do not take my comments as an indictment of everyone here, but rather my disappointment and dismay that even here there are those who would laugh at this as opposed to realizing how horrible and damaging it is to the author concerned.

WOW! Sasha! I’m really sorry I made a speculative comment!

Won’t be making any more!

sheesh

I’d probably have more sympathy for Meyer if 1. I liked her writing, 2. her response to this was professional, 3. she wasn’t handing out copies herself. Doesn’t make leaking the chapters right, of course, but. . .I don’t know, there’s a sense of inevitability to it.

I know what my first drafts look like, and I wouldn’t want hordes of people getting their hands on them; I can also see why she might be put off finishing the book entirely.  Exposing a work of fiction in the embryonic stages could kill off gestation altogether.

But it reads just like all her other books. And she’s basically already written it—MS is Twilight from another POV.

My bet is that she still makes money from this eventually.

theo

My response was strong because any speculation about why Stephenie might not want to finish this project at this time (or ever) seems to be clearly blaming the victim.  The best analogy I can come up with with why this bothers me so strongly is that it would be like hearing someone got raped and start wondering what they were wearing at the time of the attack (as if that should make any difference).

Other people’s mileage may vary on this issue - but that’s where I stand.

sasha,

You have every right to take any stand you feel is necessary, as do we all, but please don’t attribute things to me that weren’t said.

I in no way stated this, nor did I imply it to her:

To tell someone that they should just pull themselves up by the bootstraps the same week their trust was violated and their hard work was stolen and distributed in a manner that is not what they wanted is sorry.

Your words, not mine. I simply stated what I would do were I in her shoes. I have no idea what’s in her mind and to insist she do something like the above would be stupid of me.

I also did not assume this is the reason she’s not going forward with the book at this time:

it seems particularly mean spirited to assume that the reason she put the project on indefinite hold was out of some sort of, “Oh, thank goodness I now have a reason to drop this” philosophy.

Again, your words, not mine. I made a speculation. Would you have preferred if I’d thrown out a half dozen others I thought might also be the reason?

I understand your being upset with what has happened, but please don’t twist my comments to suit your anger.

However, I also hadn’t seen anyone else respond to their comments.

Perhaps no one else has read them? This thread is rather tl;dr, after all.

Breaking Dawn?  Train wreck.

spoilers may follow…...

one of the utterly squickiest moments of it: when Edward suggests that maybe Jacob should ‘make puppies’ with Bella, since his own vampiric spawn is like, breaking her pelvis and stuff with rapid development of their mutant hybrid vampire baby.  Wow.  Is heroic the right word for that?  HELLO? (even the most rabid teen fans I know - and I know ‘em - admit to disquiet at that.  Although they don’t necessarily use the term, disquiet).

The series jumped the shark good and plenty with BD - the rest are pageturning angsty crack, such as one sometimes reads, but subsequently forgets. (I discussed the train wreck that is BD on my blog).  With BD, Meyer disappointed in so many ways.

There are some hilarious forums on Amazon.com’s page for BD.

I think the PC and Kristin Cast series (another vampire skool) isn’t particuarly well written and has little steam, of what it had, left by book 3.  I couldn’t care about the main characters any more (rabid fans say ditto).

When I point the rabid fans in the direction of Sunshine, some don’t get it, but some do.  They come back and say, yes, that one REALLY has something.  Doesn’t stop ‘em liking Twilight, but it does set them some measure of comparison in plot/character/structure/quality.

On the basis of the film trailers, there are boys interested in reading Twilight.  Not sure what they’re going to make of the print version vs the vavoom of a brief, action-packed trailer - screeching cars, fights etc…

I am, however, trying to remember the last time I saw a modestly sized suburban bookshop devote an entire island of four to five cubic feet to multiple multiple (multiple) copies of four books by one author, as per the Meyer Cube I saw last week.  I can’t.  Apart from HP, and that’s a phenomenon all its own.

One version of events I garnered somewhere was that Meyer originally imagined Twilight then Forever (now Breaking, and how appropriate that is?) Dawn, and publishers said, well, what about a bit more high school life before Bella trots off to get married moments after graduation?  Which argues to me that BD needed to change from its original incarnation to properly incorporate the later plot developments.

Must admit they are great covers, though.  Kudos to the designer.

On the sneaky marketing front, the original Twilight paperback was on sale in Australia for $16.95 (average for a paperback).  Then, when the series got popular, the publisher pulled this edition and issued a ‘special edition’ - maybe slightly larger format.  What makes it special?  That would be including the first chapter of Midnight Sun, WHICH YOU CAN READ ON THE NET FOR FREE.  Oh, and the other special thing?  The price.  $24.95.  KerCHING!

theo

are we really going to have a semantic discussion about the differences between the words “assume” and “speculate”?  Because while they are not exactly synonymous - they aren’t that different either.  If you would like, feel free to replace the word ‘assume’ in my post with the word ‘speculate’.  It doesn’t change the meaning of what I was trying to convey. 

As to my reading that many were telling Stephenie to pull herself up by her bootstraps or put on her big girl panties or whatever analogy/description people would like to use…my point was that the leak of the MS manuscript happened within the last week.  She has been dealing with having her trust broken, her work stolen and published without her permission within a very short amount of time and I think that anyone saying what they would or wouldn’t do in conjunction to talking about what she has done/says she will do implies (at the very least) that they think her choices aren’t the right ones.  Especially with the ad hominen attack on her writing abilities that you threw in (unnecessary in my opinion within this discussion) and the seeming lack of understanding you have over the idea that Stephenie might truly feel traumatized or what her choices should be.  Those thoughts in such close proximity to one another seemed to imply (to me) a connection.  Since you say I was mistaken in that reading, I will take your word for it.

I feel sad and upset that an author has been violated and her work appropriated without her permission.  I am sadder and more upset that anyone would feel it is ok to speculate on whether this author is using a clear violation of her work & trust to deal with a backlash (blaming the victim for their response to an attack), or that it is ok for an author to have their work appropriated if we don’t like it, or we don’t agree with the response someone gives after being victimized, or if they gave copies of the work for others to read (shame at Stephenie Meyer for trying to help make a film of her work better.  How stupid could she get trusting people!). But pointing out why responses have disappointed me here is me not “twisting comments to suit my anger”.  It is me talking about how I read those comments, and as I said, if that is not how you (or others) intended your words to be understood, I will take your word for that.

Hmm..I just read P.C. Cast and Kristin Cast’s YA books this week.
(Marked, Betrayed and Chosen) I enjoyed them. I’m already a Cast fan from the “Goddess” books and thought the added Wiccan elements to a vampire story in the YA books were interesting .

I’m too old for YA books anyway and don’t really want to spend money on them other than maybe at a UBS. I was toying with the idea of reading the Twilight series but after reading all this….... I’ll save my book money for something else.

  It’s been my experience that the ratings of books reviewed here are usually pretty darn accurate.

sasha,

Then by all means, please DO take my word for it. I’m not the one taking any of the comments here personally.

I am also not alone in my comment on her writing. We’ve all seen horrendous writers who have been published and make a ton of money. So be it.

As I said, you’re entitled to any stand you wish to take. However, I stand by my statement that you took my words and twisted them to suit your anger. However, I’ll take your word for it that you didn’t. Whether or not I agree is another matter.
______

Does it upset me that things were leaked? Of course. No author wants to see that happen. However it did. How any author recovers from it is a personal decision for them. Whether I would handle it differently or not is no indication of whether I feel they are doing the right thing.

As for all the comments, I thought this was a place of discussion. If there is no disagreement, then there is never a need for anyone to make comments here and eventually, no need to read this great site.

I am finding it very hard to believe that the so called ‘leak’ was not deliberate.

She’s been compared to JK Rowling, whom, if i recall correctly, also had one of HER later books ‘leaked’. So it stands to reason, that either Stephanie Meyer or her publishers would want to capitalize on the comparisons being made, and draw more similarities between the 2 authors, in just this way.

As far as the indignation over handing out drafts and someone decided to share their copy- she gave them copies. In that sense, it was THEIRS to do with as they chose.

Does it make it right? No. Not in anyway. But it was THEIR property from the moment she gave it into their possession.  As long as no one is attempting to claim the work as their own, or attempting to change passages, and get it published, she really has little that she can do, other than quit writing it. Which, if she has a contract with the publisher, and most writers, especially the really smart ones, DO (it’s the *publisher* that dictates when the book is released, the writer usually has a set deadline as to when certain drafts are supposed to be to the editor and the final draft needs to be to the publisher.  Yes, extensions can be granted, but it is still the *publisher* that dictates when the book is released. As we’ve seen with Jewel of Medina.)

As far as her posting a draft copy of Midnight Sun on her blog, well, I tried. I really did. I could barely get through the first chapter. I get it- Edward hated Bella with a passion. It did not need almost 3/4 of a chapter to tell me this in various ways.

I don’t throw books, but this draft copy, even in PDF form, made me really want to.

As far as being too ‘old’ for YA, one is NEVER too old. In fact, I just picked up Delia Sherman’s ‘Changeling’ a few weeks ago. I have books I read in high school, that I’ve looked for and found, original, first printing,  hardcover editions for, that hold cherished places of pride on my bookshelves. 

So yes, there are those of us who do read the comments, even if they become TL;DR. Mainly because, I have it set up to email replies to me. Heh.

Which, if she has a contract with the publisher, and most writers, especially the really smart ones, DO (it’s the *publisher* that dictates when the book is released, the writer usually has a set deadline as to when certain drafts are supposed to be to the editor and the final draft needs to be to the publisher.  Yes, extensions can be granted, but it is still the *publisher* that dictates when the book is released. As we’ve seen with Jewel of Medina.)

Didn’t finish that thought, sorry.

Anyway, while, yes she can quit writing/working on Midnight Sun, if she has a deadline, she’ll have to meet it.  Even with extensions, she’ll still have to fulfill her contract, or risk being in breech. After she hands over the finalized draft, it’s then up to the publisher as to when the book is released.  Technically, not her.

FYI for the Tam Lin fans: The fictional Blackstock College is a very thinly veiled copy of Carleton College in Northfield, MN, which is Pamela Dean’s alma mater. The building names have been changed but otherwise it’s Carleton in just about every detail: the arboretum, the man-made lakes, the erudite graffiti in the (now-closed) tunnels, the tradition of stealing a bust of Schiller, etc.

When the web team was working on a site redesign, some of the mockups said Blackstock College. :)

Let me just address Sasha’s “for shame!”:

I found out Meyer’s “response” when it broke on fandom_wank late last evening. I don’t know if you’ve seen fandom_wank, but this kind of thing, in that context, is pretty hilarious (the macros, oh the macros). So, my response was directly influenced by that, and I apologize for not making that clear.

Furthermore, while I sympathize with the hurt Meyers is going through, I cannot respect the way in which she chose to respond. She is, to put it plainly, acting like a child. Despite her talent (or lack thereof), she is a paid, published author. I expect a certain level of professionalism from authors (and indeed, from all adults), a level of maturity where they do not flounce about saying the equivalent of “People hurt my feelings. I’m not going to let you play with my toys anymore.”

Her juvenile behavior overshadows whatever sympathy I have for her. I’m not saying she’s not entitled to feel this way. I’m saying she should know better than to pitch a big public fit. And THAT is why I am laughing so hard that it hurts (aside from the macros). Because I cannot believe a grown woman is doing this. Sometimes you’ve got to laugh to keep from crying.

found out Meyer’s “response” when it broke on fandom_wank late last evening. I don’t know if you’ve seen fandom_wank, but this kind of thing, in that context, is pretty hilarious (the macros, oh the macros).

Heck, it made SF-Drama on LiveJournal today!

That’s some hilarious reading there as well.

Y’know, I haven’t read Meyer’s books (they don’t sound like my sort of thing), but I have complete sympathy with her reaction to the theft and illegal posting of her work. I see nothing to mock and laugh at there.

It’s her intellectual property. It doesn’t matter whether her books are good or bad. It doesn’t matter how many millions she’s made from her fans already. It’s a violation and a betrayal—and from the sound of it, perpetrated by someone she trusted and perpetuated by the same rabid fans who purport to adore her.

I read her statement, and it doesn’t sound like a “flounce” or “unprofessional” to me. It sounds sad, and hurt, and very human. That she’s being ridiculed for it is just insult on top of injury.

Going back to the content of the books I found this explanation “Writing from the hips” both intelligent and funny -

http://maculategiraffe.livejournal.com/84297.html

walked46: how many miles I’d go to avoid reading Stephenie Meyer

I can definitely understand the draw in Edward’s character - brooding, handsome, intelligent, chivalrous, witty, musical - but it gets totally drowned out by how condescending and controlling he is.  He slings Bella over his shoulder and carries her downstairs for breakfast in her own house; he pulls her to his car by the back of her jacket; they’re tussling around, someone comes in, and Bella “struggles to free [her]self” while he complacently rearranges her.  He’s always smirking at her.  It drives me nuts.

Something I thought might be interesting in this discussion:

http://www.stepheniemeyer.com/bd_faq.html

Just wait until the carnivorous fetus comes in…

Reminds me of the Buffy/Angel “perfect love” deal. My daughter got into these books, then my son, so I had to find out what the big deal was. The story itself isn’t bad (so far - I’m through book 2, so I couldn’t read comments for fear of spoilers!) but there’s a lot of BLAH BLAH BLAH exposition… if I were the editor, I could have cut these tomes in half, at least. And really, I expected more innovation - just another vampire/werewolf thing… haven’t we been there, done that enough already? I guess not the TEEN version, right? *sigh* I’m stuck now, have to see how it all turns out, but I do have a tendency to speed read the angsty parts… :)

...please, SK, save yourself from the cannibalistic fetus. Get out while your brain isn’t scarred forever again. There’s no hope for me, but… *choke* maybe there’s some for you.

(Am I the only one who would kill to see this specific scene put in a supposedly teen-rated movie? Just because it would be hilarious and mind-scarring for Sue-loving teens? I mean, it might kick them up into something a bit MORE…)

While I’m at it, let’s not forget the imprinting on said cannibalistic fetus. eegh.

(Am I the only one who would kill to see this specific scene put in a supposedly teen-rated movie? Just because it would be hilarious and mind-scarring for Sue-loving teens? I mean, it might kick them up into something a bit MORE…)

If RPattz continues to be as… eloquent as he has been about the movie, I’d love to have that scene in the movie if only for his colour commentary during the interviewing process!

Reminds me of the Buffy/Angel “perfect love” deal

Yeah, except Angel goes bad and illustrates exactly WHY acreepy stalker boyfriend is BAD. Edward never does.

My advice is to buy her The Princess Bride (novel).  It’s intelligent, hilarious, and has a love story everyone can enjoy.  It was my favorite book when I was fifteen, and is still in my top 5 now.  Maybe it can bridge the gap between Twilight and the books that are worthwile.

No, not everyone enjoyed that book. I found it tiresome and hated the author’s “Oh look I’m so clever” self-consciousness.

hell15 - Where I was when I was reading that garbage.

I’m late on the bandwagon but I just want to get this out once and for all. For the Love of all that Holy and Sparkly Vampire…STOP comparing Twilight to Wuthering Heights b/c while I try not to be judgemental person, I would so judge you if you think the former is on the same par as the latter. T^T

I mean I hate every single characters in Wuthering Heights but god, the writing is spectacular. The tone..the atmosphere…the whole mood as created by Emily Bronte is simply brilliant. I mean I could actually feel the cold creepy moor wind sending its tendrils out at me as I read the book…Meyer’s writings can’t even be close to that.

Please once and for all, agree with me on this and stop killing Wuthering Heights!!

<3

This post is so refreshing after all the “Twilight” praising blogs everywhere! Bella and Edward are both weird, an she gets weirder in the coming books. I read through all of them just to see if it will get better, it doesn’t. Wait till you reach “Breaking Dawn”.

I totally agree, I don’t know why so many people are fussing about this!

If you don’t analyze these books, they are fantastic. Meyers has a gift for storytelling even if the writing gets a bit repetitious and annoying. They are addictive, fast paced, and yes…romantic.

I will admit to not liking the two main characters. Meyers tried to force feed the idea that they were so selfless and would do anything for each other….but Bella was so bland and Edward was a 110 year old pervert sneaking into her room watching a 17 year old sleep.  I just couldn’t swallow their relationship…and I my suspension of disbelief when reading the series was at an all time high.  I found myself hoping that good old Jacob would win her over, but alas….Bellas intellect was on par with her personality…that is to say…stunted.  I was relieved to have Jacob take on some of the storytelling later in Breaking Dawn….but it was unfortunatley obvious that his and Bellas voice were emanating from the same place.  My final opinion of Bella was the same one she had of herself through much of the saga….she just wasn’t worth it.

A D+ is a bit harsh.  It was fluff, but really more a C+/B- for the fluff that it was.

Allie, I’m really not trying to be facetious here. I honestly want to know. If you had so many problems with the two main characters and didn’t really like either one of them, thought the relationship was a 110 year old pervert and a stunted 17 year old, how can you call them romantic? Especially since you said yourself that you just couldn’t swallow their relationship and at the end, your opinion of Bella was that she just wasn’t worth it.

It just seems to me that with those kinds of faults, a D+ is really generous. Which is why I’m asking.

And I’m curious too that, if they were that…ugh, why one would keep reading them.

Honestly, I really am being serious here and not flip. I would think the tendency would be to stop reading even the first one when ideas of the main characters ran so against the more typical ‘romantic’ mold for lack of a better word. Does one continue reading in the hopes that things will get better?

I use “romantic” as a general feeling for the book.  The settings, the idea…more “romanticism” than actual relationships between the characters.  I actually enjoyed some of the supporting characters very much and was actually hoping at some point Bella and Edward would be killed off and other characters storylines fleshed out more.

I definatley agree with the points you’ve made about the book.  There was so much to forgive in them….but they were such an addictive guilty pleasure that even looking at them figuratively after the fact I still have to admit that I enjoyed them in the moment.  I found the writing to be very descriptive and involving…and it wouldn’t be the first book I read where the main characters were flat out unlikeable.

I’m not gaga over them….I’m not wearing a Team Edward shirt to work or designing Bella bracelets or anything….but I do enjoy mindless fluff for escapism now and again.  I also don’t read many YA titles so I guess I was pleasantly surprised that it was enjoyable for me period.

Don’t worry…I didn’t think you were being flip or facetious.  There is a lot to pick apart about this series. I just don’t spend much time analyzing fantasy.  I still think the D+ is harsh….:)

Thanks, Allie! :)

I understand a bit better now what you were trying to say. I have to say though, this:

actually hoping at some point Bella and Edward would be killed off and other characters storylines fleshed out more.

almost sent my coffee across my keyboard! ;-)

I probably would find a lot more books to enjoy if I didn’t have to like the characters to keep reading them. I read lots of excerpts for this series over the past few months, when all the hype started for the latest release and recently, the ‘author leaked’ first twelve chapters of the book-that-shall-never-be-completed (which I only made it through two) and kept hoping the next excerpt would draw me in. But I didn’t find any growth in the characters even in those short sections. They were annoying to me and that kills the ‘romance’ factor for me.

But I can understand what you’re saying and see your points. Thanks for having the patience to explain :D

OK, I think everyone reads differently. Some read for characters, others for locations. Some read with a critical eye and others just read. I am pretty analytical. I enjoyed the first book. I think the author has some skill with a metaphor and I didn’t hate Bella too much. She’s rather flimsy but I read it feeling that I’d enjoy watching her grow up. Didn’t happen. If you are interested in my review, it is on my good reads URL listed above.

Anyhow I wanted to address Sasha. I really respect your perspective. I love to read books about damaged people.  I don’t care about penance for murder or anything like that, but I’m annoyed with their relationship in general.

Ultimately, I think it interesting how many people bring up the idea of Edward and Bella not getting ‘punished’ enough as one of the reasons that the book isn’t good.  That somehow, they should have had to lose more than they did to make it ok that they get their HEA.

I don’t care that they didn’t get punished. I care that they didn’t earn their melodrama. I had to sit through 300 pages of driveling angst in the second book, with people who love each other for no good reason. U smellz gud, I can haz angst now? That is not good enough for me as a reader.  If you can make me care about them, I could understand what they see in each other. I love damaged characters but I have to be able to like them and to understand why they love each other so tenaciously. I don’t care if it’s improbable as long as you can make me buy the love. I didn’t.

Bella is a good person, but she’s a dishrag. It’s one thing to make others happy, it’s another to disappear to make their lives easier. It doesn’t feel like low self-esteem to me, that feels like a complete lack of basic sense of self-worth. When I first met her, I liked her and wanted her to grow. Then she meets Edward and simply wraps all her lost identity in his. Grrrr. Sexy vampires are awesome but Edward is… he’s spam rolled in diamond dust. Oh sure it looks good, but just taste it. It’s still spam.

For me the books were one interesting girl falling for one boring guy and then she becomes as dull as he is. They don’t “earn” their happy ending because I didn’t believe in their love story. I can’t sit back and be happy that they’ll be able to handle the difficulties that lie ahead because they love each other so much. I think their love is destructive and unhealthy and doesn’t serve either of them. It’s not two people being bettered by being with each other. It’s one person groveling while the other slavers. For eternity.

I guess that’s not my kind of happy ending.

Oh my goodness, this review made me so happy! I read Twilight a couple of years ago, and it literally made my brain hurt. I’m almost sixteen now, and it saddens me to see so many girls my age accept and glorify Edward’s abusive “love” for Bella. The whole book is so cliche, it makes my head spin. And a sparkling vampire? Come on! God forbid the characters have anything scary to go through!

I could write pages on this, but I’ll stop now.

I loved this review! Nailed the damn book (um, staked it in its angsty heart?) perfectly. I just read Twilight, got all caught up in the hype beforehand, talked to people who just loooooved the series, etc. ad nauseum.

So, bought books. Read first one and thought, Huh. I don’t think this is very intriguing, actually. In fact, I have major concerns. (Which this review encapsulated quite well, thank you.) With trepidation, I picked up the second book in the series and began.

I think I tossed it down in disgust on page 27 or thereabouts.

Let’s hope the movie shoots some sense into this ridiculous storyline. Because god help our nation’s girls if this is the sort of message they keep getting—and devouring.

LOL. my little sister was all crazy about this book, so finally i tried to start reading it last week. from the first few chapter, I already know Meyer’s strategy to make it so popular with the teenage girls ( mostly girls below 20)

Twilight series = romance trashy novels MINUS the sex scenes.

Of course those teens are all hooked. They have never read christine feehan. *wink*

Thank you for reviewing the books, now I can avoid them and the movie(s) like I avoided Jurassic Park and Titanic. I’ll stick to my Buffy DVD’s where Joss Whedon kind of already cornered the market on the high-school-girl-loves-vampire-but-they’re-doomed storyline.

And what’s with all the references to “sparkly”?? Who’s sparkly? I thought sparkles were out like glitter….

I am not looking forward to next term with a bunch of 18-yr-old girls in my classes going apesh*t over this.

I read the first two books in the series then went to Meyer’s site and read some spoilers for the other two.  I have to admit, I’m glad I did that because I am no longer curious about the rest of the story.

Overall, I enjoyed Twilight even though I had MANY problems with it.  It had a strange way of hooking me in.  As pointed out in the review, Bella’s a bit of a doormat though the whole missing parent thing is also welcomed by her character (and convenient for Edward to sneak in the house). 

One of the biggest things that annoyed me, though, was Edward’s angsty-ness!  I mean, he’s 107 years old—his body is stuck at 17, not his mind/emotional state. 

In any case, there’s a definite market for Twilight, as we’ve seen.  And the movie wasn’t bad—it definitely entertained.  BTW, has anyone noticed the massive output of vampire/fantasy YA novels lately?

Reading this review and the comments made me realize something. When I was the right age to have appreciated having an Edward of my own enough to have overlooked his creepy, stalktastic made-of-failness, I was watching Beauty and the Beast on prime time TV. Edward Cullen? Vincent, you’re not.

So it’s possible my guilty pleasure quality bar was set just a smidge too high at an early age for me to imagine ever enjoying Twilight.  Not that my preferred angsty fantasy drama was perfect, mind you, it was purple as all-get-out, but for goodness’s sake, the title characters had actual personalities and real relationships with the world around them and the occasional flaw that got them in trouble (not “aw shucks aren’t I clumsy” trouble, but, like, plot-driving trouble) and they didn’t just fall in love with each other’s smells.

That said… this thread appears to have died out since before the movie opened. What did y’all think? Me and my posse were pleasantly surprised at the vast improvements made on screen, given the source material. Plot! Happened! In the first quarter of the movie even! And Bella actually seemed to be trying to relate to her schoolmates! Personally, I’d see just about anything the director turns her hand to next. I think she worked a miracle.

(Verification: “suddenly91”, which would be perfect to describe my all of a sudden nostalgia for the show if that had been the year it aired. Only it wasn’t. That was the year of Disney’s movie, not the Ron Perlman/Linda Hamilton TV drama. *sigh*)

I read this monstrosity of a series in four days, and could not help but notice how… quaint the writing style was *sighs*
And sorry, but did anyone catch the falling into love bit? I guess I always thought the point of being an audience was to get an inside scoop on the psyche of the characters - what they think, what they feel,  how they react to whats going on… never caught that.
It was like Meyer fell asleep in between the “meeting each other” and them “madly in love” and forgot to include the unfolding of the relationship.

Anywho, parting words… Bella’s character sucked.

He’ll watch over her while she sleeps, he’ll sneak into her home, he’ll insert himself silently into every part of her world.

Is this creepy only to me, although it does kind of sound like Santa Claus.

He sees you when you’re sleeping/
He knows when you’re awake…

Sorry, I’ve always been a little perturbed by that song.
Anyway, my rock was nice and cozy too up until the moment Twilight became a movie.  One of my friends swears by this series, and I thought I might read it, but now i’m seriously creeped out.