Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Such a great album to get it all out on the table with…

Not The Doctor

I don’t want to be the filler if the void is solely yours
I don’t want to be your glass of single malt whiskey
Hidden in the bottom drawer
I don’t want to be a bandage if the wound is not mine
Lend me some fresh air
I don’t want to be adored for what I merely represent to you
I don’t want to be your babysitter
You’re a very big boy now
I don’t want to be your mother
I didn’t carry you in my womb for nine months
Show me the back door

You’ve actually hit on all the problems I have with the entire series within the space of the first book. I’m on the last one at the moment, and have had to stop reading altogether at points to keep from throwing the library’s copy at the wall.

I think the worst part for me is that I love Gothic novels and the series had so much potential, but Meyer’s style does very little for me. I’m still reading them, mostly out of morbid curiosity at this point and because they’re very quick reads, but Bella bothers me so much. That being said, I’m beginning to wonder if this is one of the few cases where the film will turn out to be better than the novel. As far as I’m aware, Meyer isn’t writing the screenplay, and it does have a very good cast, so it’s possible that all the things that bugged me about the novel won’t be an issue in the film. Although I dread the sparkly vampires.

You know, I read this book a lonnngg time ago (2-3? years? it feels like a while) and remember really liking it, but since then I’ve noticed people either really liked it or they pointed out this problem - Edward is pretty controlling and there is a disparity between him and Bella, and they really disliked it. It’s interesting. If I had this mentioned to me before I read the book maybe I would have paid more attention, but I was more into the action going on (what’s going to happen next here?) that really looking closely at their relationship. When I read it there wasn’t as much of this HUGE crazy fandom going on (that I knew about), so I didn’t have expectations either. Sometimes I think things just get so built up, when you read them just to see what the fuss is about it tends to be a letdown.  The fandom makes a small part of me eye the rest of the series in a more jaded way.. which I shouldn’t do, but still. I haven’t read past Twilight, but I have the rest of the books.

All I know about Twilight I learned from Fandom_Wank and that’s more than I ever wanted to know! D:

I haven’t read the book or even picked it up, so I have a general plot question. My understanding is that these vampires in his house all look like teenagers, so in order to blend in, they go to school. But, uhhhh… am I understanding this correctly? This really bothers me. In order to be inconspicuous, they go to SCHOOL? Couldn’t they just jazz up a few birth certificates to show they’re all eighteen and just living in a party house or something? 

Thanks for the help. This is really stuck under my skull and won’t get out! But I’m too lazy to read the book. Heh.

F.A.S., let me introduce you to F.A.K.  Formerly Angst Karen really liked this book.  It really took me back to high school and those years of obsessive puppy love (yes, I’ll admit to them).  FAK was thrilled that this moody, broody, hunk-a-burning goth obsessed about teenaged me, I mean Bella, right back.

But I’m glad this book was fast reading.  While escapism is fine for a while, FAK is actually long gone and I really couldn’t love this book due to the reasons you’ve pointed out in your review. 

I looked for and found the spoilers for the next 3 books in the series and know I will leave it at Twilight and move on. 

That being said, I might actually buy Midnight Sun when that comes out, which is Twilight from Edward’s point of view.

I keep eyeing this series in the bookstore, thinking I should read it because obviously it’s got some serious mojo since it’s so popular.  But then I look at it again and realize it is the thickness of a city phone book and it is so not going to fit in my purse…and therefore I’ll be 110 before I finish it.

And now that you tell me the hero is moody, needy and stalkerish and the heroine is channeling her inner kicked puppy.  Blah.  Two of my least favorite character types and sure to make me throw the poor defenseless book…and put a hole through my wall.

I am so glad you have taken the fall for holdouts like me who have been on the fence about this book. I am sorry for your suffering, but you have saved me and probably countless others some dough and untold amounts of icky aftertaste.  Thank you.

In case, like me, you’ve been under a rock for awhile (how’s your rock? Mine’s awesome!) and haven’t read or heard of this series…

My rock is WAY COOL, thankyouverymuch!

whatever you do, don’t search “Bella” or “Twilight” on Etsy or you’ll get so much jewelry with swans and crap you’ll want to set your eyeballs on fire.

Don’t try to search for “flair buttons” on Facebook, you’ll get 62,233 of them about Twilight or Edward or some other reference to teenaged vampires.

I hadn’t heard of this series until a few weeks ago and had no clue what all of the fuss is about.  When my pal Lisa pointed me in the direction of a review of the final book (which then pissed me off even more when I read the commenters calling this story a “glorified romance novel” with “no plot” or “intelligent heroine”), I knew this series wasn’t for me.

And since I’m afraid to even remember the ANGST I suffered as a teenager, I’m happy to leave this book on the shelf and let the rabid fans have it.

I bailed halfway through the first book.  I found Edward’s behavior to be creepy and stalkeresque, not all swoony and romantic. 

Being that so many young girls are reading this series, I start to wonder how many of them might be more apt to accept this type of domineering behavior in their first boyfriends.  And I shudder a bit.  YMMV.

You know, I really love great vampire novels. I heard the hype about this one, knew it’s supposedly geared more to the YA market. But I gotta tell ya, I have an angst filled teenager at home, who has been getting worse over the past three years, the typical “the world revolves around me and my mood swings and you all must bow down” and frankly, I don’t need to read about more, which is why I passed on this series when it came out.

Now, I’m glad, after reading other reviews such as yours, that I did!

Janicu, I read the book when it first came out ,as well, before any of the squeeing or fandom, and I really enjoyed it. I felt it was a lovely coming of age book. I haven’t read the rest of the series, as I started New Moon and just couldn’t get into it. But I never really thought that Bella would stay with Edward. I kind of thought that he was the foil to which Bella would grow. He was safe as a first love because there wasn’t ever going to be a HEA with them. Which was fine with me; I didn’t need them to have an HEA. I also did not catch the power play while reading the book, but I guess because it seemed totally normal for a teenage girl to do those things.

I kind of love to hate Twilight. On the surface of it, it seems like something my melodramatic inner teen would love, but it misses somehow. And it’s not really the quality of her writing (or lack thereof), or my (pretty much non-existant) aspirations towards being a reader of Literature. Or even - although I’ve claimed this - Edward’s creepiness (intense), or the imbalance of power in their relationship (disturbing), it’s Bella.

If Bella was a kick-ass heroine and could hold her own against… anyone really, let alone all of the supernatural beings she comes across, Twilight would absolutely be my guilty pleasure.

I own my shame. I bought the Night World Omnibus just this year and read it in public! Whoelse has been waiting ten years for Strange Fate?

Check out Liz Hand’s review of the most recent book in the series here—YES THERE ARE SPOILERS if you care.  But she has the Best Line Ever in this review.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/07/AR2008080702528.html

I didn’t want to read these books before—a friend got an advance copy of the first one, and ranted about it to me at length—and now I really, really don’t need to do so.

It’s funny… the farther away from my initial read of this book I get, the more I want to go in and analytically rip it to shreds.  I completely agree about the complete and utter creepiness that is Bella and Edward’s “relationship,” Edward’s bizarre moodiness, Bella’s complete lack of a spine, a personality, or a brain…  I work with feminist theory, particularly the idea of tough women in popular culture, and my inner feminist critic would have a field day if I let her loose on Meyer’s books.

I used to think the books were like Pop Rocks.  Most of the time, I want nice, smooth dark chocolate, but every once in a while, I crave some Pop Rocks.  But lately, I’m beginning to think Twilight is less Pop Rocks and more those nasty peanut butter candies that cheapskates hand out at Hallowe’en.  Sure, some people like them, but everyone else wonders ‘Yeeacchh, why, god, why?’

Okay, I just read all four books in the course of about six weeks, so all of them are pretty fresh in my memory.
Why I completely see your problems with the book (and I completely agree), I really liked Twilight, it was cute. Unfortunately, the series goes pretty much downhill from there, New Moon and Eclipse being sweet, but sometimes dragging and the Bella-Edward and the Bella-Jacob relationship went a bit on my nerves, Breaking Dawn being disappointing. Disappointing, because instead of resolving a few of the issues I (and apparently you, too) had with the books, Meyer even strengthened everything bad about it…

Oh well. I guess I should have known better than to read an angsty teenager series, because that’s usually not my thing.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?! 

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

I"m a member of the fandom.  I’ve read the series a couple of times and each time the action just grabs me.  Stephenie Meyer isn’t the most spectacular writer, but she is pretty good at sucking people in. 

As for the relationship between Bella and Edward, I don’t see the problems other people see.  Bella is written to be a semi-adult in a teen’s body.  She’s taken care of her flightly mother most of her life, down to moving to a place she doesn’t want to be to make her mother happy.  She cares more for others than herself and doesn’t see herself as special. 

The book is completely from her point of view.  The point of view of a girl with slightly below-average self-esteem who can’t believe the hottest guy in school wants her.  I remember being in the grips of love and not ever wanting to leave the guys presence.  Bella just gets a wish fulfilled most girls don’t.

And yes, the relationship is unbalanced.  When you don’t think you’re good enough for someone, you give them all the power. But how often in real life are relationships truly balanced?  The work it takes to keep a relationship balanced is part of making a relationship work.  Not to mention she’s a weak and fragile human who’s trying to live in a world of strong, nearly indestructible vampires and warewolves.

I have been waiting for this thread for a while now….my 14/15 yr old self was ready to pimp myself out to the local high school looking for Vampire McHotties after I read this book.  Now for the funny part…...

My 41 yr old self read the book because my 4th grader came home telling me she NEEDED TO READ this book because her 5th grade friend on the bus read and “highly recommended” it. And wasn’t she SORELY DISAPPOINTED aka had a screaming s*%& fit,  when I said she needed to wait until she was twelve.

It so hard to be a tween.

I thought the angstyness was perfection and I had a few innocent stalkeresque male friends in high school, so I wasn’t thrown off by that. But with respect to the parental point of view, I didn’t want my almost 11 yr old to think “Now that is the man for me” and “where so I get me one of those?”

It’s entertainment baby…..

Huh. Well. I liked it. Of course, I wasn’t really reading in analytically at all. I was reading it, I guess, mindlessly. I screened it for a young teen niece and she loved it so much. I really enjoyed the book. But, like I said, I wasn’t really reading it as anything but fluff and to make sure it was appropriate for my niece. I’ve read the other two and have the fourth to read, but have been nervous to start because of the backlash against it.

Anyway, I get why you disliked it, and in fact, really appreciate your analysis. But for me, on a purely mindless bubblegum level, I liked it.

I thought it was just me.  The books didn’t do anything for me, I was glad I was reading the library editions, and having said all that, I truly enjoyed The Host, the author’s new sf novel aimed at an adult audience.  I had a few problems with the world-building in The Host, but I enjoyed the characters and story much much more than the Twilight series.

I understand your objections to the book, and understand your dislike of them.

However, and this is a big however, I did love the series because I did think it was a great study of two really disturbed characters who have a horrible relationship (in terms of the health of it) and yet it makes them both happy.  It is their HEA.  It was exciting to read a story where the two “protagonists” were people that I would never want to be, nor probably want to know - who are not healthy or good or deserving.  It’s a story that I don’t think gets told very often, which is the reason I love it like Christmas (or Rpattz, if you are in the know).

As such, I think the series is brilliant.  Subversive.  Not what it appears on the surface.  I thought the point of the series was that there was no line that these two disturbed characters wouldn’t cross for love.  I do think Stephenie Meyer understood how damaged and wrong her characters were and I think that it was precisely this aspect of them that appealed to her as an author to explore.  I think these points are even clearer within Midnight Sun (Twilight as retold from Edward’s POV which S Meyers has released the first chapter of on her website).  Edward understands he is a big obsessed stalker who shouldn’t be doing any of what he is, and Bella is a sado-masochist who loves everything he does to/for/with her.  They are perfect for one another, *because* of their freaky freakiness. 

I get why other people don’t like the books, and I wouldn’t try to convince someone who hated it that they should re-explore the book.  However, I do think that many of us who loved the books didn’t love them because we panted over Edward or Bella or their relationship but because it was so subversive and wrong and damaged.  And they both know this, and they both love this.  It might not be the relationship that any of us would want to be a part of, but both of them give informed consent to the crazy that they choose over and over and over again.  Weird, damaged but compelling as all get out to me. 

If anything - the series on a whole seems to be a re-imagining of Romeo and Juliet meets Wuthering Heights where the ‘protagonists’ get their happy ending against all odds or even reason.  Bella and Edward are overwrought, they do make terrible choices, they aren’t sympathetic at all…but they love one another and they get their own HEA within the messed up world they choose to inhabit.  It was a big wow for me. 

I think the books were also snarky as all get out, as well as much more knowing that many give Stephenie Meyer credit for.

I am definitely past my teen angst years, yet I’ve read every book in this series at least twice. Ok, I read Twilight at least three times. I don’t think that Edward is creepy and stalkerish at all. He’s a vampire in love for the first time in his loooooooong vampire life. And I don’t think that Bella is weak, either. I think she’s actually quite strong. She identifies what she wants and she goes after it. Sure, there are situations that she allows him to control, but who among us remains in control of every situation with our partners all the time?

This is a fantasy, not reality, folks. And some plot devices are necessary in a book. How’s a girl in a secluded town in High School going to meet a young man? You’ve got to get the vampires in her orbit every day somehow.

I think each one of these books is a beautiful love story with some great action tossed in for fun. Open your mind and try to enjoy it. I think Meyer’s writing is earnest, at times beautiful, at times cheesy. But, most of all, these books have provided me with hours of entertainment. I’ve got a big stack of other reading to get to, but I read the last book in this series twice anyway. :-)

Everything I know about Twilight and its ilk I learned from Cleolinda. And FW.

But your review is one more solid brick in the wall of I Don’t Think This Is The Series For Me.

This one’s in my TBR pile mostly for analytical reasons.  I’m always interested when a group of people are moved to rabid fandom behavior (Jacqueline Carey’s tattooed readers, Firefly’s Browncoats, Trekkies) when other people are left utterly cold.  I’m down with all the above examples, so maybe I’m prone to geeky group-think.

Reading this review had me thinking 1) that this relationship is a huge set-up for abuse, and 2) this could also be an interesting example of Total Power Exchange (TPE) that goes on in S&M;Master/slave relationships.

Since this is a YA book and it does not sound like there is any acknowledgement of the ways in which TPE is made safe for each partner, it seems unlikely that this is even a possibility…and even if it were would probably lead to #1, anyway.

To all the teenaged girls angsting out there, run run run far away from potential Edwards.  You know those nice guys that you aren’t so interested in…cultivate an interest.  Or better yet, wait for awhile til the interest comes up on it’s own.

I picked Twilight up randomly in the bookstore and read it in a few hours. Like you, it appealed to the angsty teen in me. I wouldn’t ever want my own Edward now, but I definitely would’ve then! I then read the next 2 books and thought they were so-so. THEN I found out the huge phenomenon that was the Twilight fandom. The fandom scares me.

I never picked up on the creepiness of their emotional attachment or Edward’s control over Bella. I’m glad I didn’t, because I really enjoyed Twilight.

Breaking Dawn sucked ass. Seriously. I want those few hours of my life back. I could’ve lived without knowing the ending, just to have not read it. I love me some Twilight, I hate me some Breaking Dawn.

I thought it was sweet. 
I thought it was every Harlequin Romance I’d ever read as F.A. Amy Lane, except without the sex.
I thought if I had to spend eternity as a high school student, I’d be… oh, wait—I’d be a high school TEACHER, and you know, it ain’t half bad, but I’m warped that way. 
I thought my daughter loved it, and I was glad—no matter how much I tell her she’s my beautiful girl and cater to her every whim, she’s convinced she’ll never be as lovely as Bella Swan, but she still has hope she’ll land an Edward (however fucked up he may be.) 
I thought that every girl goes through a period in her life when she loves a guy who appears to mug nuns for a living and who justifies this relationship with the phrase, ‘But he’s nice to me!’.  I married this particular crush—he’s an excellent family man who’s nice to us all.
I thought that if I’d been a thirteen year old, I would have eaten it up with a spoon and chocolate sauce. 

As a 40 year old, I wish we’d find the next big thing.  Harry Potter mania was SO much more exciting.

I like Twilight.  I didn’t like Edward because the thought of some random dude watching me sleep freaks me THE FUCK out, but I liked Twilight.  I thought it was an interesting story.  My friends were total fangirls and obsessed with the story to near Harry Potter lengths, so I kept reading the series. 

I liked New Moon as well, but mainly because I liked Jacob.  Bella was too much of a mopey teenager for me, but I’m all over that werewolf action.

Eclipse wasn’t great, but I finished it because I had to, and because of the werewolf action.  (Vampires are cold like stone.  Werewolves are huge (well over 6 foot) and burn at about 110 degrees.  Guess which one is more of a fantasy for the spank bank.) 

Breaking Dawn made me angry to a pretty absurd level.  The lack of consequences for Bella’s decisions in life and the rampant Mary Damn Sue-ness of it all just made my blood boil.
 
The Host was pretty good.  I did experience some frustration but I could see how characters were developed and behaved in a consistent and understandable manner.  I just didn’t like what they did.

Stephenie Meyer has definite talent making you feel for her characters.  What I’ve figured out is that she needs to write single books as opposed to series because she sah-HUCKS at writing an epic story arc.  She does write romance, and anyone who tries to deny that is fooling themselves.  I probably won’t read any more of her books for the simple fact that I prefer to have more deep dickin’ in my romance novels, but that’s me and I’m kinda pervy.

God, I’m having a nervous breakdown.  If I read about one more angsty, tortured vampire hero with a mysterious past, then I am going to recommend a hearty dose of slap therapy for him in hopes that he comes around.  You are Handsome, Rich, and Immortal- please stop bellyaching. 

Is there no wry stoicism in Vampire Romancelandia?  Seneca would have made an awesome vampire.  So would Epicurus, for that matter- he would have been the happiest vampire ever.

Hello, sometime reader, first time commenter! :)

But what really bothers me is the degree to which Bella subsumes her identity at every turn.

YES!  I agree completely.  This drove me nuts in the first book AND the second book, but I kept going b/c it’s got such a following (including one of my sisters).

it’s awful, omg, alert the vampires that a terrible insult has been laid upon them.

*dies*

Bella mopes from meh to meh.

And again with the YES!  I felt this even more so in the second book, but the seeds of it are in the first book.

Well reviewed!  And I share your wtf? regarding what could possibly be so life-altering about it.

Background: I’ve only read the first one and I’m 24. I decided to read it more because of the movie trailers and light touches of fandom and hype that I’ve allowed through my defenses, than hearing exclaimations of: “Oh my God! This book is amazering!”. So a pretty blank slate as far as expectations go.

That said, I thought it was both hysterical, and a few good ideas. I don’t think it lived up to its potential, and Bella is SO irritating. I don’t think Edward’s squick value (I hear you on that Sarah) would be so high if Bella were different. Also the pacing felt like it was all over the place in my opinion, but that might just be me. I could still see me at some point picking up the next one. Maybe. But it wouldn’t be a rush.

Someone tell me though, does it ever turn out that that there’s something special about Bella? Just a yes or no, no spoilers please. It’s just there’s a big deal made about her being able to smell blood, and she herself smells special, etc. It ended up really bugging me.

I had to read Twilight a couple of months ago, just because I had to know what all the fuss was about.  I have to say I can see both points of view on this thing.

Yes, it’s creepy that he’s watching her sleep, and all the power in the relationship rests on his *gorgeous*, *handsome*, *sparklely* shoulders.  And someone needs to tell Bella that you don’t drive on icy roads with tire chains.  And she does seem to be the ultimate Mary Sue…

But, for all that, I can absolutely understand why this series is so popular.  It is a complete teenage fantasy.  (And, by “fantasy,” I’m not referring to the vampires and werewolves.  I’m talking about the kinds of things you spend you time in study hall daydreaming about.)  Edward is the ultimate bad boy with the heart of gold.  He’s dangerous, but he’s so in control that Bella knows he’ll never hurt her. (I think I’d have been a little more skeptical than she was about that - but that’s just me.)  Twilight portrays all the obsessive stuff that goes along with first love, perfectly.  Bella does seem to spend most of her time thinking about how good Edward looks, but didn’t we all do that with our first boyfriends?

I found myself mildly enjoying Twilight, but I was left with no desire to continue on and read the sequels.  When Breaking Dawn came out and I started reading the (hilariously-bad) plot summaries, I applauded myself on my decision.

To Eunice -

Someone tell me though, does it ever turn out that that there’s something special about Bella? Just a yes or no, no spoilers please. It’s just there’s a big deal made about her being able to smell blood, and she herself smells special, etc. It ended up really bugging me.

Yes, she ends up having a very special vampire power and some really cool abilities.

I own my shame. I bought the Night World Omnibus just this year and read it in public! Whoelse has been waiting ten years for Strange Fate?

DUDE. THE NIGHT WORLD BOOKS WERE THE FAVORED BOOK SERIES OF MY EARLY TEENAGERHOOD. CANNOT. WAIT.

Sorry to get all capslock, but. I reread the first Night World omnibus (which was never my favorite - I preferred the later books, especially Rashel’s story and Jez’s story) and omfg it was just as good as I remember it being. Which is, of course, SO much better than Twilight. It pisses me off that such amazing young adult supernatural romance/thrillers are only getting re-released because of Twilight and that people will be even speaking of them in the same sentence as that tripe. LJ SMITH ILU.

I am so happy you finally got to read Twilight even though it wasn’t your cup of tea.
I adored this book. I am sucker for broody heroes with mood swings but still is a pussycat with the heroine. For some reason I didn’t see Bella moping around as everyone else did. I did enjoy her voice, and her teen angst shall we say?
My inner 13 year old spirit sucked this book up like Edward wanted to do with Bella’s sweet blood. LOL

Someone needs to do a retrospective post on RL Stein.  Those books by Stein where my guilty teen read along with Sweet Valley High.

Even after I’ve read the trainwreck that is Twilight, I still find myself pausing every time I walk by the display in the bookstore.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

Still firmly under my rock and have no plans to come out. Thankyouverymuch.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?! 

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

I think you’ve just hit the nail on the head as to why I can’t bring myself to read this series.  The illogic of a 100+ year old CHOOSING to be in high school (even if he looks the part) is just too much for me.

Is there no wry stoicism in Vampire Romancelandia?  Seneca would have made an awesome vampire.  So would Epicurus, for that matter- he would have been the happiest vampire ever.

If you’re looking for a generally angst-free vampire hero, check out PN Elrod’s The Vampire Files, which feature Jack Fleming, a vamp private eye in Depression-era Chicago.  Jack has a sense of humor, a solid relationship with his nightclub singer girlfriend, and a fairly flexible moral code.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

I adore the covers too, especially the bicolored tulip one.  Simple, elegant, and just lovely.

Sasha wrote:

However, and this is a big however, I did love the series because I did think it was a great study of two really disturbed characters who have a horrible relationship (in terms of the health of it) and yet it makes them both happy.  It is their HEA.  It was exciting to read a story where the two “protagonists” were people that I would never want to be, nor probably want to know - who are not healthy or good or deserving.

Pattinson has almost convinced me to watch this movie with his comments:

“When you read the book,” says Pattinson, ... “it’s like, ‘Edward Cullen was so beautiful I creamed myself.’ I mean, every line is liked that. He’s the most ridiculous person who’s so amazing at everything. I think a lot of actors tried to play that aspect. I just couldn’t do that. And the more I read the script, the more I hated this guy, so that’s how I played him, as a manic-depressive who hates himself. Plus, he’s a 108 year-old virgin so he’s obviously got some issues there.”

Just like guy’s, there’re some books you want to date, and some books you want to marry.  I’m having a quick fling with this book, and I’m enjoying the twist.  True, with a newborn, I have zero attention span and my sleep-deprived life can only take something as deep as a mud puddle.  I mean really, at 3am feedings its not like I could concentrate on War and Peace, something flighty for me please.  When its over, I’m guessing Twilight and I will go our separate ways without any regrets.  Until then I’m enjoying the brief affair.

Uhm…wow.

Ditto

to all the reasons NOT to read this series. I’m way too old for such nonsense and the doctor told me I had to watch my blood pressure. I get the feeling that Bella would just piss me off. Royally.

SBSarah and Leslie Dickenson, our rocks must be in the same neighborhood. *waves* Howdy, neighbors! *happily crawls back under mine*

Darn clicked to fast.  Meant to say I think Sasha may have something there considering Pattinson’s remarks. 

Haven’t read the book but angsty teenager is long gone.

You might be interested in seeing a take on the book which explores Mormon influences on various characters and their behaviors (the review is chock full of sparkles—and Bjork— what’s not to love?).

Between Stoney’s review in that link and the others I’ve seen like this one, I feel like I’ve been granted a few hours of life that might otherwise have been spent introducing a book to a wall.  Now I just have to figure out something extra fun I can do with my un-Twilight time.

DUDE. THE NIGHT WORLD BOOKS WERE THE FAVORED BOOK SERIES OF MY EARLY TEENAGERHOOD. CANNOT. WAIT.

Sorry to get all capslock, but. I reread the first Night World omnibus (which was never my favorite - I preferred the later books, especially Rashel’s story and Jez’s story) and omfg it was just as good as I remember it being. Which is, of course, SO much better than Twilight. It pisses me off that such amazing young adult supernatural romance/thrillers are only getting re-released because of Twilight and that people will be even speaking of them in the same sentence as that tripe. LJ SMITH ILU.

I think Jez may have been my favourite! But I liked the one with pancreatic cancer, and the rogue vampire sisters too. And the witch sistercousins. And the revenge-crazed vampire hunter. I think the only ones I didn’t really like are in the econd omnibus, the one whose dead cousin speaks to her and the one with all the past lives, each lamer than the last.

I love LJ Smith so very much. I would pay money to see the Forbidden Game series reviewed here. Or the series with all the vaguely incestuous multiple witch-cousin happenings. Or the Vampire Diaries! It’s like Twilight, but the heroine knows all the boys are love with her and is an obnoxious bitch. And everyone acknowledges her shallowness.

Maybe I’m not selling these well?

“When you read the book,” says Pattinson, ... “it’s like, ‘Edward Cullen was so beautiful I creamed myself.’ I mean, every line is liked that. He’s the most ridiculous person who’s so amazing at everything. I think a lot of actors tried to play that aspect. I just couldn’t do that. And the more I read the script, the more I hated this guy, so that’s how I played him, as a manic-depressive who hates himself. Plus, he’s a 108 year-old virgin so he’s obviously got some issues there.”

ILU RPattz.

I’m curious to know whether the moms who love the series and Edward find it a tad bit disturbing the Bella loses herself to him so badly.  She turns into a completely different person once she starts falling for him and seems to lose her identity one small bit at a time.  Now, with Jacob, she seemed to be a little more believable and self-assured, but it was ridiculous to think she might chose the right kind of guy instead of the one she falls in lust for. 
I’m glad I don’t have to worry about that whole teenage angst and worrying about the possibility of my daughter going through all this crap.  These books are for pure entertainment and it’s one thing for girls to lose themselves in them, but when their moms are behaving worse than they are, well, that’s even scarier!  I read someplace that the women were the bigger fans and were making the most noise at the Twilight events.  Did any of them get the real message or were they so in love with Edward that they didn’t see the problem with the message in these books?

I’m not going to say too much, because I’m reading the series and then am going to write a long piece on it, but I think the draw of Twilight is in the fact that Bella can have this guy in her life who continues to insist on how dangerous he is but who also—we know—will always act to protect her. 

Now that may backfire in all sorts of spectacular ways, but I think that cocktail of danger and safety is a powerful draw in Romance, and IMO, Twilight is one of THE MOST CONVENTIONAL ROMANCES I have ever read.  In fact, I think it’s more conventional than most adult paranormal Romance (in fact, I keep joking that I can no longer say I don’t read inspy Romance).  And in it you have the typical geeky, angsty girl and the brooding, beautiful, isolated and wounded male, and voila! true love (innocent love, at least sexually). 

It’s an added bonus that Edward finds himself so objectionable, because it creates the urge on Bella’s part to insist that he is not a bad guy, and by extension, for the reader to embrace Edward and to see the depths of goodness in him despite his own sense of self.  So you have all that, plus the sexual innocence (Edward barely allows kissing!), the whole outsider thing, and the intensity of the coming of age stuff, and I think Twilight serves up core Romance .

Now, if you make it to book two, you get the Bella who uncritically defines herself solely by all the men in her life.  And then the overt Wuthering Heights parallels start rolling out.  That’s when things really get scary, lol.

I’m still under my rock…I love it here.  Nope, haven’t read it although I have bought this one.

I keep hearing people rave about it, but I just haven’t worked up the enthusiasm to try it.  I will, sooner or later.

I am still waiting to read Twilight (only 22 people ahead of me at the library)...
I won’t buy it because of all the reasons stated above, I’m afraid I won’t like it and then I’ve just wasted my precious money. I buy books I love so I can read them over and over and over until their covers fall off… I don’t see that happening with this one, but I can’t help myself, I have to see what the hype is all about…
I think I married Edward though, even though I am nothing like the descriptions of Bella… :) Thankfully he doesn’t watch me as I sleep (creepy alert!) but he is moody as all get out and def that guy I never thought I could get that all the other girls want, and he does live up to the hype in the ways that REALLY count >:)
Still, I would hope that no one uses my own (or Bella’s) dysfunctional relationship as an example of what to hope for, and it bothers me that so many girls are going apeshit about this series…
Love your site btw, only just discovered it about a week ago, my kind of gals

She turns into a completely different person once she starts falling for him and seems to lose her identity one small bit at a time.

This is my current situation with DD2. Over the past two years, she’s become a child I don’t know as she’s let her boyfriend consume her life to the point where, at 19, she’s moving in with him.

Mind, I’m disgusted with DD2 more for the fact that she’s not grown one iota since meeting this boy and for that fact is not ready for any kind of adult commitment. Were she more mature, more willing to accept responsibility rather than his word for everything, it might be different.

Did any of them get the real message or were they so in love with Edward that they didn’t see the problem with the message in these books?

I’m guessing they’ve totally overlooked everything in these books that says it’s okay to be so submissive to the guy you lust for that you’re willing to give up yourself, everything you are, to be with him.

Why can’t such a gorgeous set of covers have been slapped on something wonderful?!

Yes, yes, yes.  The covers are stunning.  I’m partial to the red-ribbon one.  Can’t for the life of me tell you which book that is, but it’s beautifully nonspecific and evocative.  Romance novels ought to look like that.

Even my most angsty teenage self would never have wanted a relationship with a vampire.  Real boys, as I recall them, were complicated and challenging enough.

I had suitably angsty intense relationships with really awful, unsuitable, self absorbed guys who were interested more in screwing with my already ruffled emotions than they were any genuine efforts at being a couple. One particular guy was an absolute waste, and I am horrified that I spent so much time trying to make this fool happy.

You just described my 4 years of high school. Oh, I dated a couple of normal guys, but I spent 4 YEARS angsting over my BFF Jason. I had to save him from himself you know!  GAH!

The only good thing that came out of that experience is I knew what NOT to look for in a boyfriend!!  I married the exact opposite of “you are my best friend, let me tell you about myself. Oh no, I revealed too much I must ignore you for a month” Jason!

I wouldn’t go through high school again for a million bucks. Srsly!

This book will not be on my TBR list b/c like damn, high school was hard enough as a teen, I’m 35, I’m too old for that crap!

I’ve a theory about the book’s appeal to teenagers.

My 13 year old still plays with dolls (Bratz, so according to internet wisdom, a career as hooker awaits) and my 17 year old plays with Boyz. My fifteen year old has given up dolls and is interested in boys in a theoretical sense. She’s the one that likes Twilight.
I read a research paper on the internet, which talked about the reasons teenage girls put posters of boys on their bedroom walls, and the author argued that it’s part of a specific developmental stage - where girls almost rehearse feelings of what it might like to be in love - imagine caring for someone.
My guess is that for my fifteen year old, and her friends, Edward Cullen = the Bay City Rollers. A safe figure to focus those adolescent yearnings on.

I read the whole series so she could talk to me about them - and honestly, I thought they were fine. Not for me, but I’m not YA. I’d more difficulty getting through the Libba Bray book which everyone seems to love.

I believe it was an article in Entertainment Weekly that was mentioning the number of women going to these signings thanking Meyers for her books, blah, blah, blah and then presenting her with their babies named Bella!  They credited the books for bringing romance back into their lives (I guess because Edward didn’t touch Bella in that special kind of way that it got readers hot and horny!)  After reading that section of the article I fet a little creepy—don’t know why exactly except if the older women are doing this, I hope young girls don’t follow in the same path!

Normally, I’m not this critical of books and their messages, but this was geared to the younger group and girls need as much guidance as they can get at that impressionable age.  I used to be a Bella and trust me—I was so misguided.  I’m glad I got my sh** together after high school.

True about the covers. They’re absolutely gorgeous, and the first thing that made me take notice of them.

LA> Thank you for answering my question.

katiebabs> If we’re talking R.L. Stein then it has to be the Fear Street books! Don’t even get me started, they’re still a guilty pleasure, if in a different way. I have a secret stash that I use to cleanse my literary pallette inbetween meatier books.

Erin> A fling, yes, exactly. That’s the perfect way to put it.

If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?!

That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

This is the thing that makes it the archetypal teenage romance, and the reason that so many of us got chided for reading romances at too early an age on account of it would give us unrealistic expectations.

I’ve been reading Romance Manga lately (thank you onemanga.com), which are mostly aimed at teenage girls.  So, so many of them have the hero being:

- 17, or at least in the Senior year of high school
- yet somehow emancipated from parental control (so mature!)
- class president
- a self-made millionaire
- a genius
- a rock star (or model, or actor)
- a martial arts expert
- ridiculously good looking
- the object of every other girl’s lust and obsession
- and sometimes all of the above

And the heroine being:

- ordinary

This is the teenage girl fantasy of ordinary ol’ me being the Chosen One for the guy who’s SO MUCH BETTER than all the losers I go to school with.  But, I’m in school.  How do I meet this paragon?  (Being ordinary, I never go anywhere besides school.)  Why, he must go to my school!  I shall ignore any gyrations that make his attendance at my school unrealistic.

I haven’t read any Meyers, and probably won’t because my silly quotient is being filled by manga, but I can (from a distance) see the appeal.

The review in the Washington Post was hysterical.

Educators, readers and parents have all made much of the fact that the Twilight series promotes a wholesome version of teen love for its dreamy, predominantly female readership, citing how the books’ protagonists practice abstinence (as opposed to, say, the lewd excesses of Harry Potter’s cohort, or those out-of-control Pevensie kids).

Reminds me of The West Wing episode which examines the impact of abstinence-only education. The briefing memo that went around was nicknamed, “Everything But(t),” full of suggestions to keep randy teens happy but baby-free.

Waiting for someone to write slushy paranormal YA about anal.

I haven’t read any Meyers, and probably won’t because my silly quotient is being filled by manga, but I can (from a distance) see the appeal.

That reminds me: Vampire Knight. It’s everything that Twilight fails to be.

This article explains it all:

“There are a bunch of other SEXY VAMPIRES and a few other humans in the series, but they’re not important - the point of Vampire Knight is for Yuuki, Kaname, and Zero to be involved in the most gasp-worthy, gut-wrenching love triangle EVAR. Kaname saved Yuuki from a much more evil vampire when she was a child, so she’s in love with him, but he’s a gentleman vampire who won’t bite her no matter how much he wants to. Zero comes from a family of vampire hunters, and since a vampire killed his family, he hates vampires more than anything - and thus hates Kaname. But Zero was also bitten by a pureblood vampire, so he’s turning into a mindless vampire himself, meaning he’s physically and emotionally tortured 24-7. Yuuki’s his friend, and they have sexual tension, but she also has sexual tension with Kaname, who has mutual hatred (and sexual tension!) with Zero.”

Ok, having read Twilight, New Moon, Eclipse and now Breaking Dawn, I think as a writer I’ve figured out why readers are hooked on Stephenie Meyer’s books like addicts on book crack.

While Edward is a vampire, and that just brings in a whole slew of readers right there, he’s also got the whole bad-boy-who’s-still-safe thing going for him. He’s older (though not in physical years, if you aren’t counting not aging the nearly 100 years he’s been changed), he’s smart, he’s got money, he’s got a dangerous edge about him with his supernatural strength. But he’s also not going to initiate anything physical with Bella (in order to protect her). It’s a safe protective relationship for a girl who’s never really been around her father much…makes sense.  All the other stuff, money, power, total adoration, cool factor, belonging to the “other”, what’s not for a tween-teen girl to fantasize about?

The thematic that love is self-sacrifice only adds to the whole deal. He’s sacrificing his desire, his need to eat, to save her mortal life. She’s sacrificing who she is to fit into his immortal world. Jacob is sacrificing his whole culture/world for Bella’s happiness. Bella is sacrificing her former love of sunshine to keep her flaky mom happy.  Bella’s father is sacrificing his better instincts to keep his daughter happy. Bella and Edward are sacrificing themselves for…you seeing a pattern here?

Reader excuse Bella’s whining, her fit of utter morose depression, her near cultish following of the Cullens, because dammit, it’s for love. And love is worth any price (see references to Romeo and Juliet between the pages of Meyer’s books for further explanation.)

But what really struck me was how completely wrapped up my tween and a fifty-year-old step-father could be in the same set of books. Meyer’s (and I am NOT saying this because our names are so similar - and we are NOT related - I’ve got an “s” on the end of my married name) excells at bringing people to the base level of their emotions that can cut across gender, age, ethinicity and class. Beyond fear, anger and love (as basic as you get) there is guilt, sorrow, pain, trust, devotion and hope.

As writer’s we really get into what makes readers experience the book like we see it in our heads. As readers, well hell, we just get into the story and appreciate one that makes people start talking.

Not everyone is going to move beyond the multiple squick factors in this book (domination, age-differences, self-sacrifice like WTFBBQ).  I get that. I also get that she did something right in causing such a hate/love reaction in readers. If you can polarize people you’ve hit something right.

dear god - spaminator - father44…they always said daddy issues sells, guess this is a good example.

And this oh so neatly sums up why I will never read the series.

Oh, as well as Cleolinda’s summerizations.

God, thank you.  I was unable to finish the first book.  Then, after listening to a friend rave about the last book in the series (Breaking Dawn - link to ebooks version, which is priced pretty well), I purchased it.  Breaking Dawn is better… to an extent, because the storyline actually progresses.  However, this is not a book I could justifiably recommend to my teenage cousins, because the main character is weak and whiny and incredibly immature (even though she gets married - right out of high school - and has a BABY).  I hope that the teenage girls who comprise the majority of Meyer’s fan base are able to distinguish the difference between things that work for idiotic characters in fiction and behavior that will only attract the dumbest of men.

I have to say that in general I liked Twilight...and the rest of the series as well. 

I think they are light and frothy, fun and readable and sweet…and about as deep as a sheet of notebook paper.  It’s all surface.  There’s no complexity to the characters or to the overarcing storyline.  Nobody particularly changes and grows.  The initial conflict of human-girl-falls-in-love-with-a-vampire never really amounts to much because, of course, the Cullens are all good.  They are intrinsically kind, decent, God-fearing, thoughtful, generous people who happen to have REALLY white skin and keen senses.  They have no real vulnerabilities and pose no threat to anyone.  Like I said…superficial. 

But when I (finally) got around to reading the first one, I read it quickly and happily went and picked up the others.  Again:  light and frothy, fun and readable and sweet.  Angsty?  Oh, sure.  (Especially the third book, which felt way forced to me with all that manufactured love triangle crap.)  But I thought “angst” was pretty much synonymous with “teenager”?

Anyway…some of the reviews and comments I read online make me wonder what people expected these books to be.  I can totally get that they’re not everyone’s cuppa…and I can’t understand really why anyone over the age of about 17 would think these were the Best Books Ever (unless they just didn’t read a lot)...but the disappointment and the tenor of the criticism of this series by adults at times bewilders me.

I liked Twilight. New Moon wasn’t bad - I would have rather Bella ended up with Jacob than chasing after Edward. Eclipse was all backstory, and Breaking Dawn - ugh. Yes, I find Edward creepy and controlling.  And as someone else commented earlier, Bella has been taking care of her mother and being more responsible than most of the adults in her life. I don’t see her as spineless, just a teenaged girl.  I think we should remember that Twilight is marketed for the Young Adult, in other words tweens and under 18 year old girls - who those 62K+ fan sites or whatever it was, prove it is LOVED.

I just finished this on Sunday on a flight from NYC to LA.  Apparently, I’m the only person on earth who hadn’t heard of Stephanie Meyer, then my husband heard about it on NPR and suggested it.  (It’s a romance - you like romance).  A few weeks wait and my copy arrived from the library.  Other than the endless control issues, I found the writing stilted.  He gulped.  She winced.  He sighed.—it was endless taglines.  I also couldn’t find the plot.  He’s moody.  He saves her,  She finds out he’s a vampire.  He saves her.  They fall in looove.  She gets trapped by another vampire, he saves her.  I just kept reading in case something happened.  Since other reviews indicated it just gets worse from here.  I’m going to stop now.  There are too many other books and too little time.

I just read this. Had the same reaction as you, Sarah. I disliked the main characters—particularly Bella. She seriously irritated me. So it was hard for me to engage myself in the story.

Plus, I just didn’t get it.

Seven out of eight of the class of 15 year olds I taught last year were crackwhores for the Twilight series, so I bought Twilight and number 2 (eclipse?) to see what the fuss was about. Read Number 1 but number 2 is still there in the TBR pile and I can’t seem to find any enthusiasm for it at all. I had just read Cassandra Clare’s City of Bones, which I found much more interesting, and as a big Buffy fan, Bella Swan left me totally WTF.

As an ex-angsty teen myself, I thought I would feel more sympathy for her, but by the end of Twilight, I wanted to slap both Edward and her. She was beyond TSTL, but I was always conscious that this was just a dumb book and that Bella Swan was the uber-Mary Sue (especially when I found out that she first featured in the author’s dreams).

When my lovely students asked me what I thought, I glossed - it was fine, but I am a died in the wool Buffy addict and found Bella and her vampires too vanilla. In my view, vamps can’t do sunshine and Bella needed more of a spine.

As for the role model for abstinence business, well. That’s a bit like thinking that reading Lolita is going to turn us all into Humbert Humberts. Books don’t get people to do anything except think.

The thing that really does worry me about the Meyers fanbase is the adult women who are getting all tingly about Edward. That’s what I find even more icky than his stalker-schtick.

The Salon.com review is very perceptive on both the romance and the fantasy aspects of the books.  Note the *appropriate* use of the placeholder theory to describe *teenagers* (not all women, or all romance readers) trying on different possibilities—much like Marianne McA’s reading on developmental stages.

the Twilight books ... are—in essence and most particulars—romance novels, and despite their gothic trappings represent a resurrection of the most old-fashioned incarnation of the genre. They summon a world in which love is passionate, yet (relatively) chaste, girls need be nothing more than fetchingly vulnerable, and masterful men can be depended upon to protect and worship them for it.

Bella is not really the point of the Twilight series; she’s more of a place holder than a character. She is purposely made as featureless and ordinary as possible in order to render her a vacant, flexible skin into which the reader can insert herself and thereby vicariously enjoy Edward’s chilly charms.

But the best part of the review, I think, is the understanding of fantasy’s allure:

Twilight succeeds at communicating the obsessive, narcotic interiority of all intense fantasy lives. ... it finds its voluptuousness in the hypnotic reduction of its attention to a single point: the experience of being loved by Edward Cullen.

I didn’t like the book.  It had too settings, in my opinion, and they were ‘boring’ and ‘oh fercryinoutloud’.  However, I do have a somewhat knowledge of the fandom from witnessing a few hilarious fandom wars. 

A few MONTHS ago a webcomic artist made a parody comic that is still getting her praised and bashed all over the internet on a regular basis:

http://shinga.deviantart.com/art/Head-Trip-Twilight-Sucks-85504254

She hadn’t read the book at the time of making the comic, so the fandom called shenanigans and told her to read it.  So she did, and created a summary of each chapter that while being absolutely hilarious is also still getting her praised and flamed to no seeming end:

http://shinga.livejournal.com/478415.html

Based on observation I’ve noticed four distinct groups in the Twilight fandom.  There may be variations within the categories, but these are the general ones:
1- the hardcore Meyers can do no wrong, or at least not wrong enough to turn away from, but they’re under the age of seventeen so we just smile and hope they grow in taste eventually.
2- the crack readers, who know it isn’t good, but still read it anyway because they either want to know what happens next, or they find it hilarious
3- the hardcore reader who hates one of the characters.  Aparently a lot of fans hate Bella because of her whining/uselessness/MarySue qualities or an umber of other reasons the least of which being she’s an annoying narrator
4- the ‘Twilight Moms’, women who by all acounts are old enough to know what both a good book looks like, and what a good relationship looks like, but for some reason think Twilight is the best thing ever and want to go cougar on Edwards seventeen year old body (but its okay, because really he’s older)

Many times I’ve run into the teenager with low self esteem who says she likes Twilight because it gives her hope that even though she doesn’t think she’s pretty or popular or talented, she can still find true love.  But the book doesn’t teach anything like confidence, it just says that if you move to a new town the boys will suddenly be all over you and you’ll get your very own stalker just for showing up.  Through no effort of your own will you become popular, and you’ll still have no self esteem to speak of even with the boyfriend. 

Personally, the reason I think it’s so popular is because it’s fun to be part of a fandom.  It’s reached the point where the group mentality has made people interested, like a joke everyone knows but you, and teens are very prone to cliquing and finding outside reinforcements to combat their trying years with.  It’s like how watching a bad movie with a group of friends makes it about fifty times more fun than watching it alone, and the fun of watching it makes the movie seem better than it really is.

Eventually most of these girls will either grow into better reading or not, but most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?” and others will just have happy memories of being a part of something that gave them and their friends a lot of good times. 

-
LOLsecurity text:  always94 “How long have you been 94?” “A very long time”

karmelrio said:

I bailed halfway through the first book.  I found Edward’s behavior to be creepy and stalkeresque, not all swoony and romantic.

And I agree.  Edward = stalker = creepy = I’m way out of touch because if any guy had pulled that shiz when I was in school my mom would have kicked the crap out of him, my brother would have killed him, and my daddy would have buried him (of course being a vampire it would have been ash I suppose, but whatev).

My rock is nice and comfy, thanks! I haven’t read any of the series but my book friends are all over them with varying opinions. If I was F.A.C., I’d be all over them like a bad rash as well. Angst, vampires, lurve! Swoon!

I just read The Silver Kiss, by Annette Curtis Klause, 1992. Angsty teenage vampire meets soul mate in mortal girl who’s mother is dying. They bond over death. A gorgeous little book with a strong heroine.

Just offering it up as a palette cleanser.

Evie

judging by the snippets I’ve seen, and the description from my friend who read it, the plot is sound, but the author isn’t and needs to take both English and Creative Writing again. We’ve both concluded that the vast majority reading it, outside of those who recognize it’s bad, but like it anyway, are a bunch of morons who wouldn’t know good writing even if it slapped them repeatedly…. which would incriminate a bunch of teenagers and tweens because almost everyone as a teenager and a tween thinks this sort of thing is OMG!~ SO DEEP!

also… look it up on fandom wank wiki.

I had just read Cassandra Clare’s City of Bones, which I found much more interesting

How much of it was Cassie Clare’s own voice, and how much of it was “borrowed” from other sources?

/cattiness. Sorry. CC was at the heart of what I’m pretty sure was the first really major plagiarism scandal in the Harry Potter fandom. It annoys many that she went on to become a published writer.

(Whatever you think about fic, know that the overwhelming majority of the fic community is *violently* anti-plagiarism. You can borrow characters and worlds, but you do. not. touch. others’ words.)

Can I recommend PC and Kristin Cast as a great alternative for angsty kids who are a little too smart to buy Edward’s stalkerific 105-trapped-at-18-so-I-aint-a-pedo deal?

Haven’t read the books, but am enjoying the hell out of all the parodies.  My oldest girl isn’t quite old enough for the series, as boys are yucky and vampires would give her nightmares. 

Peaches said:

Eventually most of these girls will either grow into better reading or not, but most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?” and others will just have happy memories of being a part of something that gave them and their friends a lot of good times.

This struck a chord.  How many of us in our 30’s/40’s devoured early Rosemary Rogers, Johanna Lindsey, Kathleen Woodiwiss and the ilk when we were teens?  Edward Cullen don’t have nothing on Steve Morgan in the dysfunction sweepstakes.  (Although the infant imprinting thing described in many reviews skeeves me out like nails on a chalkboard combined with cotton out of an aspirin container all wrapped in metal chair dragged across a hard floor.)  We look back and laugh, mock, and groan at our insipid adolescent taste that forgave Brandon for raping Heather because he was rich, hawt, frothing with jealousy, and eventually good in bed.

How many of us in our 30’s/40’s devoured early Rosemary Rogers, Johanna Lindsey, Kathleen Woodiwiss and the ilk when we were teens?

Me!

But they weren’t aimed at us and we knew that.  I didn’t know anyone else who read what I read, adult or teenager, so I also had no chance to work myself into a fanwanking frenzy.

  If you were an immortal vampire why would you choose to spend your immortal “life” IN HIGH SCHOOL?!?!

  That idea is just something I can’t wrap my mind around.

Add me to this small, baffled group! Seriously, when one of my Twilight-loving friends tried to get me to read this series, I stopped her at this point in her summary. Why, I asked her, would a hundred-something year old choose to spend all of eternity in high school? Was high school not four years of Hell on Earth? Who would choose to relive that forever? Whereas college was the best four years of our lives - a feeling shared by many of the twenty-somethings we know. (She conceded that I had a point). If Edward were smart, he’d spend eternity college-hopping and lettin’ the good times roll!

I agree with your review - these books (and I’ve read them all) pretty much make me want to spork my eyes out.

If Edward were smart, he’d spend eternity college-hopping and lettin’ the good times roll!

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

And since someone else is groovin’ on Annette Curtis Klause, Blood and Chocolate is The. Best. Paranormal. YA. Novel. Ever.  Werewolves instead of vampires, but OMG! angst, self-centredness, horniness!  I was so there.  I wanted to be Vivienne so badly.  (And I was WAY past teenagerhood when I read it.)

Also,

most of them will eventually grow bored with Twilight.  In years to come, some may look back at the book with embarassment and think “Why did I like this?”

I love-love-LOVED Laura Ingalls Wilder’s books as a tween.  Reading one of them again in my early twenties, I wanted to go back in time and choke the prissy little git.  Did not like the characters AT ALL.

passed21:  a long, long time ago.  But I still loves me some YA romance.  Went out of my way to watch High School Musical.  *ducks head and blushes*

This may be mean of me, but I really want you to keep reading and reviewing until you get to Breaking Dawn.  I can never get too much of reading about peoples’ reactions to parts of that book.

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

I second this. LOVE that book.

Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed these books—any clue as to why they are so freaking popular? They seem to be somewhat-less-than-average-quality examples of a niche that has many better samples to offer. Why aren’t the same readers going crazy for L.J. Smith, Amelia Atwater-Rhodes, Annette Curtis Klause, Vivian Vande Velde…? These authors all have relationships between teens and hot, brooding vampires, but generally healthier relationships described in better prose. What quality makes Twilight so crack-like?

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

Oh, good GOD, yes.

Though I’ve never quite forgiven my college for not being Blackstock. :) (Where’s MY Thomas Lane?)

Has anyone mentioned that the first 12 chapters of Midnight Sun have been leaked?  The Amazon boards can’t decide if this was done by SM’s publishers to distract interest from the Breaking Dawn backlash or if it was Rob Pattinson because he hated Edward so much. http://www.amazon.com/Sooo-Midnight-Sun/forum/Fx1GAA6GYWX8459/TxKRNTM1LREH6X/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=031606792X

Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

As a publicist in my day job, I’d tend to go with the “distracting from the backlash” theory.  Now that the book has been released, what else are you going to do to get more publicity?  Rile up the rabid fans of course! Get them talking.  Meh.  Seriously, as a writer can you imagine what it’s like to have to rewrite an entire book from another characters POV? Sounds hellish to me personally.

Not to appear stupid, but why is there backlash? and does she have to write it again from another character’s POV?

Sasha:

I think the books were also snarky as all get out, as well as much more knowing that many give Stephenie Meyer credit for.

I kind of disagree with that since almost every interview with SMeyer has her waxing romantic about how perfect Edward is and how perfect their love is, blahblahblah. If she was really writing what you think she was writing, you think she might have spelled it out for the dumb - even just in her interviews.

And the whole “I shouldn’t do this, it’s bad” thing in Midnight Sun is totally one of those “Oh, I shouldn’t have another cookie, it’s WRROOOOOOOOONG!” and then does it anyway. And where are the consequences for his actions? He gets his girl anyway. And Midnight Sun is just the first book, it doesn’t justify the next four piles of steaming crap.

Er… that is, Midnight Sun just covers the first book.

It’s funny to see this now-I just did a marathon reading of all the books. They were OK, but nothing special. The second in the series made me want to beat my brains out.
Bella and Edward seem more creepy obsessive than romantic.

Apparently she wanted to rewrite Twilight from Edwards POV.  I haven’t read any of the leaked chapters but from what I’ve heard there’s some unintentionally funny moments as Edward tries to figure out how he could kill Bella without giving himself away. 

Someone else is going to have to explain the book returning rage that seems to have consumed a number of her former fans.

Thanks, DS. All the SM stuff is new to me. Like I said in an early post, I have an angsty teenager who’s been that way for the past two or three years. I deal with her every day. Somehow, I just can’t bring myself to read about them on top of that. :P

Sunshine by Robin McKinley is a much better book. Don’t think it was packaged as YA originally, but it really is.

I don’t think it is either, especially since when I found my copy, it was in the regular scifi/fantasy section, not the YA section.

But yes, that’s another book I liked well enough to reread multiple times.

Forget S. Meyers.  The Japanese have it all over her on the wangst.  And they do it better.  AND SPARKLIER!

Someone mentioned Vampire Knight (and it gets OH SO MUCH BETTER WITH THE INCEST FACTOR YES YES!) and that’s just the proverbial tip of the angst iceberg.  The quality of the stories (beyond the first stirrings of self insert) are typically higher and the characters more well rounded.  There is always SOMEONE making sure the heroine grows one way or another BEFORE she gets her man.  It’s pleasing.  In a squealy kind of way.

As for these books.  I cannot stand them.  I’m fighting them in my classes now and having to explain to girls that boys their age are NOT going to act like that.  Nor should they EVER expect them or want them too.  It’s an uphill painful battle.

my word is want48 - I want 48 more YA stories that don’t involve relationships and luuuuuuuv but engage and excite the kids and REMIND THEM that being kids is awesome too.

warning, spoilers of plots points within the Twilight Saga contained within this response. 

luxdancer

Stephenie Meyer is on record as talking quite a bit about her characters in less than glowing “oh, Edward is perfect” terms.  If you read the personal correspondence she wrote to the Twilight lexicon - she is pretty clear about the fact that 1. the Cullens are murderers, 2. they are criminals above and beyond just murder, 3. they are not living a life of repentance, yada yada yada - nor are they interested in this.  They have had to move several times over the past hundred years because family members have “oops, killed a human, and the family basically says, ‘try harder next time - we love you’”.  It is pretty interesting reading if you have any curiosity about this topic.  There are around 15 different long responses that she gave to multiple questions that fans have asked hat give a lot more background about all the characters and why they respond in different ways.  Also, quite a bit about moral hazard and the lack of morality to be found within the Cullen clan.

As for the interviews she gives that have been much more mainstream/widely disseminated - well, I think she is actually pretty cagey about how she describes Edward.  I think a big part of this is that her publisher chose to publish these books as YA and many of the (teenage) fans do in fact have those “ooh, it is so romantic, Edward is a dreamboat” view .  Stephenie Meyer has always said that she did not write this intending it to be a YA novel (or series) and that she wrote what she, 29 at the time she wrote Twilight, wanted to read. 

But in the interviews that I have read/watched with her - she states a few things over and over again.  1. She would never choose to be a vampire, 2. She thinks a lot of the choices Bella makes are terrible, but true to the character, 3. She (the author) loves both Jacob and Edward. 

I think there is a lot of nuance though to her love that doesn’t play very well in most kinds of conversations.  And as I think that Stephenie Meyer is a shrewd business woman as well as a great storyteller - I don’t think she is going to court controversy about the fact that while she loves Edward - he is still a damaged, disturbed individual.  It doesn’t seem like that would go over very well, and really doesn’t create a good soundbite.  That doesn’t change what she wrote and I am not the only person seeing these themes. 

I don’t think that my interpretation of the series is all that hidden in what is actually within the pages.  In fact, it is pretty explicit.  In Eclipse, Bella and Edward have a whole long conversation about how messed up/disturbing/damaged Wuthering Heights is (with Bella stating that the only redeeming part of that love story in her mind is Heathcliff and Cathy’s love for each other), and then go on later to describe their feelings for one another by quoting sections of the book to each other.  In New Moon - Bella talks about their relationship in terms of Romeo and Juliet and wonders to herself what would have happened if Romeo had dumped Juliet and Juliet had ended up married to Paris after all.  Would Juliet have been able to create an ok life with Paris?  Bella obviously doesn’t have to make that choice because both her ‘suicide’ attempt and Edward’s are foiled and they are given a chance to work through the misunderstanding as opposed to dying. 

Truly, I don’t think that an author who (in her works) describes the hero as “a stalker, a peeping tom, a murderer”, the heroine as “selfish, weak, obsessed” doesn’t see her characters as damaged and disturbed.  I think one of the powerful aspects of Meyer’s writing is that she clearly loves her characters with these flaws and allows them to have happiness.  I also think that the lack of judgement of the morality of what the characters choose to do is quite deliberate.  These are not 4 (soon to be 5) books about how awful it is that the Cullens and many of their vampire friends have killed and continue to kill innocent people.  As Kristen Stewart said in an interview, “These situations do not facilitate happy people”. But whether Bella and Edward are good, whether vampires (even vegetarian ones) should be contemplating moral hazard isn’t the point of the story. 

This story is one of two people who should not be together being together.  Both of them choosing exactly what most of us would say is exactly what they should not choose.  Over and over and over again.  And it working for them.  You know, as much as I was happy to see Bella become a vampire by the last book - I wouldn’t qualify that ending to be a “happy” one.  yes, Bella and Edward are happy and I think it is true to them as characters - but dude, she dies/becomes a vampire to be with this guy.  She is now potentially going to be a murderer (even if it is unlikely).  If one of the other Cullens slips and kills a human (as many of them have in the past) - I think it is pretty clear that she will be saying the same thing all of them have said at one time or another which is “Oops, we forgive you, lets move on”.  The unconditional love that the Cullens (as couples and as family) show to one another is all the more powerful for exemplifying both the disturbing/damaged/effed to all that aspects of their vampire family and the unbreakable bonds of love that they share. 

Ultimately, I think it interesting how many people bring up the idea of Edward and Bella not getting ‘punished’ enough as one of the reasons that the book isn’t good.  That somehow, they should have had to lose more than they did to make it ok that they get their HEA.  But as William Munny says, “Deserving’s got nothing to do with it”.  If we can suspend disbelief that super hot, super wealthy, criminal vampires are hanging out in Forks, Washington and fall in love with a human girl - I don’t really have a problem with them getting their improbable happy ending.  It seems life is always unfair in favor of hot, white wealthy people.  Why should this be any different?  It just seems like white privilege taken to a whole new level.  And Stephenie’s vampire canon (pretty different from the usual) would support most of it.

MMMMmmmm, Pamela Dean’s Tam Lin.  Immortal boys in college. Angst. Magic. Melodrama.  Personal growth.  Read it.

Oh, YUCK, I HATED that book. Just hated it. But I still love the Little House books. Just goes to illustrate how different people’s tastes are, I guess.

I don’t think this quote from salon.com hase been brought up yet:

Twilight succeeds at communicating the obsessive, narcotic interiority of all intense fantasy lives. Some imaginary worlds multiply, spinning themselves out into ever more elaborate constructs. Twilight retracts; it finds its voluptuousness in the hypnotic reduction of its attention to a single point: the experience of being loved by Edward Cullen.

Very intriguing. I can see why people would drink that up. Sounds kind of delicious, really.

Not to appear stupid, but why is there backlash?

theo, it’s my understanding (from watching the fandom backlash with irrepressible glee) that Breaking Dawn broke the Twilight fandom.

Somewhere between the “omg sex now plz,” the “must have babies to be Fulfilled Woman,” the Demon Death Baby Nessie, and the ex-imprints on infant child, Twilight fans got mad. It is my understanding that even among the hardcore fans, Breaking Dawn was almost universally disliked.

Reasons varied, from some feeling like SM was not true to her world, that the pedophilia/imprinting overtones were too much, just general wtf crackery badness…

And somehow, instead of just complaining about it, they ‘organized’ a vocal response in which unhappy fans encouraged each other to return their copies to their places of purchase. This, of course, led to some interesting discussions as to whether this mass return was a valid method of protest/voicing an opinion, or if it’s only theft.

Either way, most fandom involved individuals I’ve talked to were surprised by how strong the reaction has been; most people had never even thought about returning a book just because they didn’t like it, much less encouraging mass returns all across the country.

Oh, YUCK, I HATED that book. Just hated it. But I still love the Little House books. Just goes to illustrate how different people’s tastes are, I guess.

You are seriously the first person I’ve ever seen critisize Tam Lin.  I’ve heard praise from everywhere and figured I ought to read it, but it seems to be out of print (or never printed) in the UK. 

I haven’t read Twilight, but I did scan through the leaked chapters of Midnight Sun.  My favourite part is where he plots the murder of an entire classroom of people.  Romantic!

Lyra, THANK YOU! :D Gives me a much better idea. Makes me even happier that I passed on this series. I’m already disgusted with one author whose last two books felt like a betrayal to me however, I would never consider returning them!! I just won’t buy anymore!

CateM:

B&N;has Tam Lin in stock. Ships within 24 hours. $8.99 and it’s a reissue.

I started reading this series with a lot of optimism. And although I had a lot of problems with the feminist nightmare Bella was, I looked past it. I am 3/4 away from the end of Breaking Dawn, and I can barely stomach to finish it. The sexism is rampant within all the characters. I love frothy fun teen angst books, but having a female character that cannot live without a man’s attention is just pathetic.