Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Writers getting screwed sucks no matter what color they are.

Something to do:  Sci-fi writer Piers Anthony is involved in e-publishing and he keeps a good pub/bad pub list here:  http://www.hipiers.com/publishing.html

It’s not a formal list like the Better Business Bureau, but it’ll warn new writers of what they can expect.  (My sister found her publisher on his “good guys” list and is pretty happy with them.)

Come to think of it, Monica probably should complain to the Better Business Bureau in whatever city Genesis is registered.  In fact, she should get as many writers as possible to file written complaints… The BBB requires a written complaint, but they will investigate and try to resolve the complaint.  Info on complaints and resolution is kept on file so anyone who thinks of doing business with a company can check their record first.

Thanks for the interest!

We are doing more, but you understand we’ve got to keep it on the dowlow. 

Another thing we’re doing is starting an organization.

This organization’s focus will be black writers.  Topics such as how to interface with the nonblack literary community and grow the black writer’s niche will probably be among things addressed, because we don’t share the same readers, marketing or distribution as white authors. 

We don’t have an effective organization for black writers for various reasons.  We’re trying to start one and we need all the support we can get. 

We will be taking nominations, voting in officers, bylaws, etc.

I don’t think integration is the answer.  I don’t think it’s possible the way things are now. I think autonomy, organization and strength are—but that doesn’t mean we can’t work together to achieve those ends.

Nonblack folk, if you’ve had an interest in the black niche or want to support us, sign up!  We welcome everybody. 

Sign up at http://monicajackson.com/blackwriters.html

Lia, I’ll pass that idea on.

Sarah as far as romance sites and bloggers taking this on, seriously, can you imagine PW coming out with an issue this big that affected white romance authors and it not being the talk of the romance blogosphere? 

That article came out a couple days ago.  Who’s picked it up?

It does illustrate clearly to the black romance author that we aren’t a part of the romance community. 

But maybe that’s what some needed to realize.

Was Ellora’s Cave screwing their writers and suing them picked up by all the romance blogs a couple of years back? I don’t remember that it was. It was pretty much confined to those affected by the case: e-pubbed writers and those aspiring to be e-pubbed writers. Those ladies got hung out to dry and had to defend themselves at their own expense.

Once we’ve been told not to date (publish with) the asshole, there’s nothing we can do about those who won’t listen and would rather be in an abusive relationship than be alone.

Monica, I ask this: What exactly is it that you’d like the larger writing community to do?

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/

This is a great site. There’s a whole page on where to go when you get screwed.

I second on Piers’ site as well.

‘What exactly is it that you’d like the larger writing community to do?’

From what I’ve seen, those who screw writers are banking on the fact that newbies don’t know the law and/or don’t have the money to hire legal council. Nine times out of ten, the authors give up, even if it’s blatently obvious they’re right and the publisher is wrong. They get away with it, they keep screwing people.

You really want to help these people out? Find pro bono counsel or a CPA. It could be a friend of yours, even.

Newbie authors need mentoring and legal counsel. Only then will they be protected from the conniving and the unstable. Blogs and exposure are wonderful, but as you said, some people ignore the obvious.

Even if law type folk volunteered a couple of hours a week to review cases and give advice…or even read through contracts. Experienced authors would even be helpful in this.

Did PW write such an article about Ellora’s Cave and the romance blogosphere wasn’t in an uproar?

With the support and encouragement given to every little blip of erotic romance, I’m astounded. 

I don’t expect the romance community, since it is as it is, to do anything. 

If we were a part of the romance community, it would be evident.  As it is, it’s evident we’re not.

If you’re excluded and marginalized from a community, there’s nothing to do but make your own.

We’ve been excluded for years, but the hope that we were romance writers and would eventually be included in the romance community as full fledged members, with romance readers considering us the equal of any other romance author.  After over a dozen years, it comes time to face reality that this isn’t the case, and do something.

If you want to do something too, you’re welcome to sign up.

http://blogginginblack.com/blackwriters.html

You’re still not answering the question. You’re simply rehashing your accusations and casting aspersions.

One more time: EXACTLY what is that the “romance community” could/should do that it’s not doing? How is it “evident” that you and yours are not a part of said community?

To reiterate what I stated on my blog:

The romance community is made up of people who write romance, who read romance, who buy romance, who review romance, who talk about romance, who promote romance, who care about romance, and yes, who blog about romance.

These people very rarely read, buy, review, talk about, promote, care about or blog about black romance authors or our work.

Example:  Erotic romance is also a sub-genre. It gets read, bought, reviewed, talked about, promoted, cared about and blogged about. Erotic romance authors are part of the romance community, no matter how much some traditional romance authors and readers wish they weren’t.

Yes, black authors are discriminated against and excluded from the romance community by the will of its members as a whole. What I don’t understand how admitting the obvious is so difficult.

I recommend you read this excellent article, then you might finally get my “accusations and aspersions.”

I wish everybody would

http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/whatcard.html

‘Example:  Erotic romance is also a sub-genre. It gets read, bought, reviewed, talked about, promoted, cared about and blogged about. Erotic romance authors are part of the romance community, no matter how much some traditional romance authors and readers wish they weren’t.’

Righhht….Because we stood by what we did and fought our asses off, not to mention created a highly marketable genre that the mainstream pubs eschewed until they saw the numbers EC was racking up. You’re seeing several years of heads hitting brick walls.

Do the same, and you all will be just fine. I totally support your wanting to step up and fight. Being oppressed and ignored sucks monkey ass.

I know less than nothing about law or publishing contracts, but might a class action suit be possible? Viable? Perhaps the ‘downlow’ mentioned in the 2nd comment addresses this.

Regardless. No author should be stolen from & then lied to & expected to sit at their computer & smile like a good little girl. I wish all success to Monica & her fellow authors in their efforts~

I swear as stimulating as these discussions are, I’m beginning to get tired. 

So I did it advance.  I hope you don’t mind. 

The next salvo will be somebody writes, “I read an African-American romance (or “two or three) and it just wasn’t that great.”

Answer:  Sorry, you will not be able to convince me that I’m inherently inferior to any white romance writer because I’m black.  I’ve read far more three white author’s romances that sucked.  So?

“Sputter, sputter, fume, fume.  You’re such a bitch, how dare you say anything bad about white (nonblack) people?  You’re the racist.  I hate you!  I will never read your books!”

Answer:  Yawn.  I bet you were going to run right out and buy my books to add to your shelf of black romance authors.  I’m devastated.

“I am not a racist.”

Answer:  Sorry, but if you’re so defensive about intent on denying raicsm exists, you probably are.  Fortunately, you’ll be able to live quite well with that fact.  Us, since there are so damn many of you, not so much. 

“It’s so much trouble to find those books.  I never know what to look for.”

Answer:  Sorry, I know it’s harder.  We are segregated and marginalized by race and that’s what makes it so.  That’s the way somebody wants it.  That somebody is not us.  We’d love for you to spend your money on our books.  We really would.  You can look in the direction of my books first. Excepts on my site.  ;-)

“What can I do?”

Answer:  That’s a hard one.  You can care, I guess.  SB has always cared.  It’s a big thing and means a lot.  The problem is that this society is a racist one, no different from when blacks weren’t allowed in the city pool.  It’s changed, but not as much as people think. 
I don’t think MLK had the right answer.  As a race, we haven’t progressed, we’ve slid backwards.  We have more tokens and a class of house Negros, but as a whole, no, we haven’t progressed even as we’ve become more integrated.

Malcolm X was on the right track in some ways.  He preached integrity, organization, strength, and autonomy.  I think that’s the only way we can prevail against the crushing weight of oppression.

If you think that the fact that black romance authors can’t really be romance authors and enjoy the same market, distribution and potential as any white romance author although we write romance, if the fact we’re considered the inferior of any white romance author (or we’d would be a part of the romance community) isn’t a crushing weight of oppression, you’re kidding yourself, not me. 
 

That’s it, I’m out.  Sorry if I missed a post.

I don’t want to be a bitch, but I’ve been wrangling and explaining to me what seems to be the obvious for what seems to be years and am fresh off a stint at AAR, which is always trying. 

Ananda, we have stuff up our hat. Many more authors are coming forward with stories of nonpayment. 

He has been threatening people one-on-one so we have to be very careful about letting him know our moves. 

Mistress Stef,
Thanks. Erotic romance does step up mightily to those horseheads who try to diss you, but you are a part of romance.  The response is always vociferous.  You’re supported.

If we step up the silence is deafening.  I’ve heard many black romance writers say if they mention race at all, their ears get blistered by the silence or otherwise, the immediate denial of their perceptions. 

I’ve stepped up for years, and sigh, I know.

Mistress Stef,
Thanks. Erotic romance does step up mightily to those horseheads who try to diss you, but you are a part of romance.  The response is always vociferous.  You’re supported.

**Yes. Now. You should have been with me three years ago, which I got constant emails from folks trying to save my soul and blasted in forums by people calling me a pornmonger. Believe it or not, I do know how you feel.

If we step up the silence is deafening. 
I’ve stepped up for years, and sigh, I know.

***Well, you have one more very loud bitch stepping up with you. I signed up on your link. As anyone who ever met me at RT can attest, I’m pretty damned hard to ignore. I also have a severe case of bullshit intolerance.

Pardon my ignorance, but do people really look into the author’s race before they read them? If it’s a book written by a Native American, specifically about being a Native American trying to fit in a white culture, not everyone will be able to relate or be interested in following that character’s journey. But if a Native American woman wrote a book about being a kick-ass heroine, living in a suburban city and looking for love- what’s to stop me from relating to the character? It seems to be about content not race to me.

People only look at the race if the author is black.

From what I’ve heard that’s when they make the assumption that the content is inferior and avoid it.

On her blog, Monica said,

“My ancestors have been here working to build this country for free, longer than many white immigrants, with a greater contribution to this country than most of them have made.

This is our country. My family has no memory of Africa. We remember the South.

They should have left a Southern state or two to us after the civil war and made all the white folks move. Now, that would be fair. And they wouldn’t have to be around us today.

The agenda for us to force integration isn’t realistic. We’re a minority, around 13% of the population, and the majority of the people we live among are hostile to us.

What we have is a survival complex.”

This fails the smell test at its most basic level. If a Latino, Asian, Caucasian, Middle Eastern, Aboriginal, or Native American person said that, would we then call it what it is on its face? I leave the determination to the reader as an exercise.

The determination should be that I’m sick of being discriminated against and shat upon to a degree that no Latino, Asian, Caucasian, Middle Eastern, or Native American suffers from presently in this country. 

If Latino, Asian, Caucasian, Middle Eastern, or Native American wrote a romance they wouldn’t be segregated to any Nigger section.  (I excluded the dark and nappy haired Aboriginal who certainly would be put in the African American romance section, no matter whether American or not).  Romance readers would read them as any other author.

The response was to a black reader who said we weren’t clever enough to force the romance community and publishing to integrate with us or move back to Africa.

It comes a time after years of trying to integrate, to fit in, to placate and pacify racists, to give up.  I think the time is now. 

What I wrote was true. Blacks suffered horribly at the hands of hostile whites during Reconstruction.  Entire towns were looted and burned and people killed because whites didn’t want prosperous blacks within their midst.  We would have been far better off if ceded our own area after the Civil War.

And from now on, if you want to comment on one of my remarks on MY BLOG, you can do it there.  It’s a public blog with no restrictions and anon posting if desired. 

It is unfair to take comments from my space out of context, and post them in a white arena to try to deny racism for your own comfort and try to tar me.

I’m not sure I’m understanding your point. This is not an attack—I truly want to understand where you’re going. This is a heated discussion, and sometimes meaning can be skewed.

Are you saying that African-American authors should cecede from the romance industry because they’re treated like redheaded stepchildren and basically start their own area?

If so, isn’t that defeating the purpose of attempting to bring African-American writing to the front of the bus, so to speak, and gain it the attention it deserves?

We can’t secede from the romance genre because we aren’t a part of it. 

We aren’t treated like step-children.  We treated like dogs kept outside. 

Before 1985 we weren’t allowed in romance, period.  After 1994, we’re allowed, but not as a part of romance.

We have different readers, Stef.  Totally different readers. Your readers will not read my books with the same content as yours, for various reasons, no matter what I write. 

They’ll read a mystery first. 

We are marketed by demographics.  My books simply aren’t carried where your books are.  My books are only carried in places where there are significant blacks.

In the town I live there are never any books by any black author of any genre.

A white romance author’s distibution is far more massive than I can dream about. 

So I don’t have the same readers, the sanme prints runs and distributions, nor are my books in the same place. 

What is there to secede from?

I think we need to deal with the hard hand we’ve been dealt. 

And what’s more, the romance community and industry will wind the clock back to 1993 before integrating. 

We won’t be able to publish and sell.  This is a fact.

Hmmm.

So is it black literature in general you feel is treated this way, or simply black romance?

Also, you mentioned that erotic romance is part of this genre—my sales data actually shows black and interracial sells quite well in erotica/erotic romance. But an issue I had was a lack of submissions of that type, and I saw very few at other epubs as well.

Could part of the issue be that there are less African-America writers, possibly for the reasons you cited?

I think black commercial literature is marginalized, but it’s particularly severe in black romance. 

In other genres there are at least tokens, the hope that a black writer can rise to be a Mosley or Butler as can happe in mainstram (McMillan) or literary (Jones) fiction if deemed “universal.”  Black writers can’t speak the human experience, only the racial one, unless white folks pronounce we can as an exception. 

Kim McLarin, a literary writer has written a great piece on that.  There is bitterness among the ranks, because most black writers are treated differently (less than) a white one but the situation in romance is utterly ridiculous.

I mentioned on my blog that erotic romance has a different racial history toward blacks than romance and what applies to romance doesn’t apply there.

‘I mentioned on my blog that erotic romance has a different racial history toward blacks than romance and what applies to romance doesn’t apply there.’

As it does to GLBT content. Erotic romance is more openminded because we’re closer to our market, and able to switch trends faster. Also, I personally don’t care who does what if it’s a good story and hot.

Iactually asked whether you felt it was specifc to romance because I’m pondering the idea that the treatment is not necessarily racially motivated, but merely the same reason for the recent kerfluffle at RT, where a M/M book was denied a review:

That certain factions of the romance industry cling desperately to the basic romance formula and anything ‘different’ from the basic Conservative outlook and HEA is considered an issue. Black. Interracial. Gay. Lesbian.

Perhaps it’s not quite so personal.

Monica, I have written about the plight of the black romance author…way back in April in a blog post at Accessromance.  It was not the focus of my blog—I was talking overall about culture and if a heroine is from one culture (Latina, in my case) would readers automatically put a book down because of it.

I’ve always believed that black romance should NOT be shelved in its own section, but in the regular romance section where all romance readers can find it.  I’ve seen stores do this—usually stores with independent shelving, like my local Waldens, and the books sell great.

Trouble is, the romance community does NOT decide where the books are shelved.  The publishers and the bookstores do.  In my opinion, you are railing at the wrong people.

Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez, the noted Latina writer, is constantly fighting this battle.  Bookstores often put her books in the Spanish language section despite the fact that a) her books are written entirely in English and b) she’s 100% American.  Boy, that last name must really throw them off.

I totally get where you are coming from, but I hope that when you organize, that you bring your arguments to the right people.  I’ve come to believe very strongly that readers don’t much give a crap about the details so long as you give them a good story. But first, they have to find the book—and that’s not the romance community’s call.  (Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by romance community.)

Julie, all the publishers really care about is money.

We are handled the way we are because of what people who read, buy, review, talk about and care about romance have chosen to do.  If the romance community treated our books like any other romance author’s books, we would be integrated today.

Harlequin tried.  Didn’t work.  Other publishers have tried.  White romance readers won’t buy us as soon as they peep the cover.  If we’re not identifed as black, and they buy, they get mad too.  After seeing how rigid romance readers are about their heroines, looks, body size, Lord knows what, on AAR, I can understand why they definitely can’t related to a hated minority. 

All pubs care about are sales numbers and money, and as far as black authors how we sell well is to sell is to other blacks only.

From what I’ve observed, Latina romance and chick lit writers are regarded as white and not segregated.  You’re definitely not regarded as less than as and your books avoided because you’re Latina. 

If you were black, you couldn’t enjoy sales to the same readers.

Mi abuela is Latina, is that enough to cross over and get some romance readers?  :-)

Monica, I think you’re demonstrating aptly exactly why some of us don’t read ‘black romance’.

I, personally, don’t really care what color the person on the cover is. In general, I pick up a book and look at the back cover and read the blurb, and if it looks interesting, start reading the first chapter. From what I can tell watching other people in bookstores, this is common behavior. I’ve bought plenty of good ‘black romances’ this way. (most of them have ended up being ‘African’ romanace novels, which were just really cool, and one or two of which I even re-read.)

On the other hand, if the main charecter is an angry female who wants to blame all her problems on the world and not take responsibility for her own issues? I put that book down and move away. Quickly. I dispise the victim mentality, because it is a choice. You can choose to be a victim of everything or you can choose to deal with it to the best of your ability. And don’t tell me that I have no clue what it’s like.

The sub-genre that I find that in most commonly is the ‘black romance’. Yes, it happens in most of the other sub-genres, but I find it over and over and over again there. So, if the books are labeled as ‘African-American Romance!’, I’ll start looking somewhere else. It is not the race of the charecter which turns me off, it is the prevailing attitude frequently displayed.

I second Susuile.

I don’t believe I can identify with the racist / opperession issues so frequently mentioned by black authors, who seem very interested in them and talk about them often.  So I prefer to read books with characters who aren’t likely harp on these issues.

There they are, I knew they show up.

And if you think we’re victims, wanting something from the likes of you, you’re mistaken.  My sole purppose here is to wake people up to what you really think of black authors, especially if we dare to speak about our reality, because you can’t stand to look in the mirror at your ugliness.

I’m very aware your sort would never buy anything from me as long as I stay black, no matter whether I kiss your ass so hard my lips look chapped.   

I’d rather not.  I’d rather hold the mirror up so you can see what you look like. 

Thank you for making it easier.

You can tell when racists have never cracked the spine of an AA romance.  Race issues are seldom, if ever, approached within romance.  It’s about love and relationships. 

The main complaint from racists about black romance is that it isn’t black enough. They expect a different experience and are shocked when the characters are just like them and have love affairs just like they do.

We are handled the way we are because of what people who read, buy, review, talk about and care about romance have chosen to do.  If the romance community treated our books like any other romance author’s books, we would be integrated today.

When you say this, do you mean to say that it’s the readers’ and reviewers’ fault that the black romance books are segregated?

If many romance readers won’t read a romance because of the race of the authors, whatever the excuse they choose to give, (mentioning race or being oppressed, making them uncomfortable, being angry, loud, or a victim—which are common lies racists use to excuse their hate, btw), and many, many romance readers won’t even read black authors when the books were put under their noses as Harlequin did several times, who else fault is it?

These romance readers have the right not to read blacks and to hate us too if it makes them feel good.  That’s not my point.

We’re organizing to help ourselves finally, because we’re waking up to what the readers like those above really think about us. 

Our readers are different. They are the market we need to grow and nurture, not those other people who despise for what we are.

White romance readers won’t buy us as soon as they peep the cover.

Wellllll, based on your response to my post on AAR, I just ordered In My Dreams, and yes, I saw the cover on Amazon before I clicked on that “buy” button.  I am so craving more variety in Romance heroines, especially when it comes to body image issues. 

What I don’t want, though, is to go into the book with all of your comments about race shaping my response to your book, because I don’t think that would be fair to your work as Romance.  Obviously I’m not going to be seeing white where you write black, but I also don’t want to be so conscious of the racial issues as you draw them outside your books that I lose the integrity of the story inside the book.  And yet, I feel right now like I’ve got to work a little to divorce my book-reading self from your out-of-book comments, because your talk ABOUT Romance is so steeped in race.  I’m not making any kind of judgment about that—I understand why you feel you need to say what you say, and I admire that you can stick to your guns when people get upset with you.  I’m just commenting on the fact I sense some tension between your insistence that Romance is Romance and all the race-talk about what Romance readers and writers will and won’t do, etc.  Because I don’t want the latter to “color” my reading experience of your book beyond what’s there.

Oh, and a comment about the idea of AA authors organizing into a more coherent group for the purposes of self-representation.  I think this is a crucial step for ANY self-identified group that aims for mainstream acceptance and power.  Because I’ve yet to see any group that doesn’t sit smack in the middle of the circle gain a more central position without a critical mass of representation.  For the most part, IMO, NO ONE willingly gives up what they perceive to be an important power position, and getting that power shared usually requires some form of insistence on the part of those who see themselves as bereft.  I just think this is the pattern of group behavior, regardless of the characteristics defining each group.

Robin, I’m an activist sort.  I can’t sit silent at injustice, even when it doesn’t affect me.  I’d get into arguments with the Phelps about their hatred of homosexual people when I lived down the block from them and I’m not homosexual and those people are crazy.

If I knew how the romance genre was going to be, I can honestly say I would have never written it. I was very naive, just wanting to be a writer, not thinking my race was such a big deal. 

But just because I’m an activist, doesn’t mean I’m not a person.  When I write, I’m not thinking about being black any more than a white author thinks about being white and in how white she is into her book.

I just write a story about people. 

I separated my site from my blog.  There is no link.  Only a few of my readers frequent my blog, more go to my site. 

I should stop posting in the romance community.  The only reason I do is because I know the majority of the people here aren’t my readers.  So I’m my normal activist self, writing whatever I feel. 

I probably would be a lot more circumspect around my readers.

That’s why I think seeking power from romance is futile.  We need to grow our own readers, our own niche, and support each other.  The best thing would be to forget romance.

The disappointment when the Ritas come around, the constant kicks in the teeth.  Give it up and make our own community, I want to scream.

The only good thing about Genesis Press is that we’re finally feeling empowered about doing something about something for once, and some are waking up the the reality that they aren’t a part of the romance genre and thus are ready to move forward and get something done instead of waiting on people who despise is to do it for us. 

Thank the Lord.

I have to agree with Monica’s 06:47 PM post. There is this unspoken “law” that when black authors use the racial background of themselves and their characters to flesh out the story, it’s a “black” novel. There’s no such thing as a black author writing a novel(horror,romance,mystery,thriller,etc) simply about characters and their journey, who just so happen to be black.

Why can Arthur Golden write “Memoirs of A Geisha” even though he is a white American? Why is it that hordes of readers of all colors flock to movies and books about the Holocaust, or Amy Tan’s experiences as a Chinese-American are lauded? Or why black authors are looked at askance if they:
a) don’t write books where the characters are the second coming of “Good Times”
b) want to write characters of a different ethnic background than they are?

Or worse(to use a more relevant example), when a white author writes black protagonists in their romance and it’s accepted—the romance is even fangirl gushed about—but these readers won’t even look at a romance branded as “African-American romance”.

That is the point I feel Monica was making in terms of black authors of (romantic) fiction.  Erotic romance is a sub-genre all to itself: as long as the spine says “erotic romance”, fans, new and old, will try it. Not so for “AA” romance.

FYI, the link won’t work to the post on my blog that referred to Genesis Press.  I was advised that some are seeking to punish authors who expect to be paid according to contract for their work.

Exactly right, Shay.  We can’t do a thing about other people’s choices, but we can empower ourselves and enlarge our base of readers. 

We need to raise our rep with the black reader who’s into E. Lynn and Kimberla Lawson. 

We also needed to broaden out in sub-genres among our base readers.  I’m editing an anthology out next June, paranormal erotica, very hot and edgy with LA Banks Donna Hill, Janice Sims and JM Jeffries.

When I first started reading this comment thread I thought ‘whoa, it can’t really be that bad, can it?’. See, I’m from the Netherlands, so I feel a bit out of my depth when it comes to African American romance, or even fiction as a whole. But then I started thinking. I don’t believe I’ve ever read AA romance. I say I don’t ‘believe’, because I’m not sure. It’s not common practice here to have pictures of the author on the book (it does happen, but it’s not a rule, nor an exception). And I wouldn’t know it from the author’s name. So unless I Google an author, I can never be 100% sure of the author’s race. And I’d like to think that it wouldn’t matter to me.

However, we experience the same problems with second generation Dutch Moroccan and Turkish writers. Unless the press picks up on them (usually because they write something poignant or stinging about integration of minorities in Dutch society), you’ll find them somewhere on the bottom shelf of the bookstore.
As for romance by authors of that descent, I’ve never even seen it. I mean, I guess it should exist (I think Meg Cabot writes about Saudi romance in Princess Diaries), but I never heard a peep about it. And yet in that community there are probably writers who try to get published, or read, but fail miserably.

So in conclusion, I started off thinking that the situation can’t be that bad. But even if it was all in the minds of the AA authors, even if it was just a feeling of being ‘discarded’ and undervalued (which I’m not saying)... Even then, wouldn’t it still be awful? I can’t imagine anyone who loves to read, whether it be romance, SF or detectives, wanting talented writers to be abused like this.

‘I should stop posting in the romance community.  The only reason I do is because I know the majority of the people here aren’t my readers.  So I’m my normal activist self, writing whatever I feel. 

I probably would be a lot more circumspect around my readers.’

Honestly? I don’t think you should stop posting. You can’t change a bad situation by going off by yourself. 

But being more circumspect is a good idea. You can still write what you feel, but readers do take the attitude of the author into consideration when purchasing, and losing your audience won’t help your cause. You can get your point across a little more subtly and less confrontational in these venues and still get your words out.

I personally think you have some very valid points. I’ve seen this crap going on myself. It’s one of the reasons I went into the biz…I felt screwing the author wasn’t a prerequisite to being a publisher, and I wanted to prove it.

But at the risk of starting ire, when I first started reading your comments, I felt like apologizing for being white and wasn’t getting your gist. That’s why I asked you to clarify some things. THEN I got what you were really saying, and for me, it was part, “oh yeah, that’s a fact” and part major eye-opener.

The Internet is notorious for confusion, and not everyone is going to ask for clarification before getting defensive.

Just keep that in mind.

I appreciate your points, Stef.  It’s automatic for whites to get defensive when a black person mentions race.

We are taught very early to be careful around white people about the topic.  Most blacks are very leery to talk about discrimination, no matter how much they’ve suffered.

I’ve operated from the position that those whites who immediately get defensive when race is brought up, and don’t seek clarification, rather immediately deny there’s such a thing as racism and label me a bad black person for bringing up the topic and making them uncomfortable—that sort of person is never going to be my reader anyway.

They’ll get mad and might even seek to harm me because of their hate, but they are treating me is no different than they’d treat any black person who brought up race and made them feel uncomfortable about their racism. 

I have no desire to coddle them as they are used to being coddled, or beg them to not hate me because of my race and treat me like any other human being.  All I want to do is hold up that mirror so they can see their ugly faces.

I always try hard to be reasonable to reason, even if it’s questioning.  But why should I pander to racism and racists?

These people are never going to consider me fully human, no matter what I do.  The most I can be is a good Negro to them and I’m not a good Negro.  It might be hard for another to accept this about people they know and do treat THEM like human beings, but it’s true. 

I probably should step down, write my books and channel my creative energies into my fiction.  I’ve said all I can say, all there is to say.

Thoughtful people have heard it and will think about it. 

Racists rarely change.  They just avoid mirrors.

Monica’s theory as to why the authors tolerated this treatment from a publisher is that it stems from a mentality among minority authors that treatment like that from a publisher is better than not publishing at all, or self-publishing.

This attitude is not unique to minority writers. A lot of people feel that way.

What can you do about it? EDUCATE THE AUTHORS about the scummy publishers. Genesis is listed on Preditors and Editors as “not recommended,” the worst rating they’ll give anyone.

If new authors don’t know where to look for scam warnings, the rest of us are not doing our jobs:

• Preditors & Editors
• Writer Beware
• The Beware Blog

I seriously do not understand why these sites aren’t better-known in the romance community. Because they’re run by SFWA members? Who cares? They monitor everyone, not just SF publishers and agents.

These sites do a wonderful job and needed service.  I e-mailed Victoria at Writers Beware a while back.  She’s extremely helpful. 

Also people may not be aware, but Genesis Press publishes white authors, who are also part of our group.

I always forget who’s white or not, so I can’t tell you which, but I know there are several. 

Genesis publishes mostly AA, but they still publish books with characters of all races.

One of the authors in the JM Jeffries team (who writes kick-ass paranormal erotica and I tapped her for my anthology) is white and owns a bookstore.

I don’t feel it’s your bringing up race that put people on the defensive per se. That seems to be a bit of oversimplification.

People are leery to discuss race not necessarily because they’re racist, and they don’t always become defensive for that reason either.

Sometimes they get tired of being called racist every time their opinion or outlook differs from a person of different race. Perhaps you don’t, but it’s common in online forums. So assuming people are leery to discuss race because they’re racist is closed-minded.

The idea is to educate as you did me and spread the word, which makes it harder for publishers to get away with their misdeeds.

I have said before that you have a valid argument, and the facts are there. I have issues with the romance community myself.

As for ‘coddling’, being respectful isn’t coddling, it’s plain common sense respect.

Let’s turn it around and say hypothetically that the black romance community is responsible for my books not selling, and I’m getting poor placement because the black authors are getting priority. What do you think would happen if I posted that in a public forum?

Bingo. I’d be called racist.

It’s automatic for whites to get defensive when a black person mentions race.

Certainly I get *defensive* when a black person brings up race—I become afraid I’ve offended them without even trying, not meaning to tender offense at all, and they aren’t going to let me apologize because now I’ve shown myself to be a racist, and therefore everything I say from that point on is suspect. Any apology I make is going to sound as if I am trying to redeem my image to other whites and remove the stigma of the word ‘racist’, not actually because I feel remorse. I was never taught how to intentionally insult black people, how will I know if I’ve done it unintentionally unless someone is willing to actually tell me and speak with me constructively? I grew up in the South and while my parents are not (obviously) racist, how do I know what horrible things my friends might have taught me?

I’ve seen this happen to others, and frankly, I’m terrified to talk conversationally to a black person that isn’t a friend of a friend anymore. I offend white people often enough, I’m sure I must be making enemies left, right and center in the black community every time I open my mouth!

I signed up for your list, but I really don’t think you want me there, particularly as I’ve written this and now you’ll think I’m a racist bitch. I’m sorry.

When will people learn to deal with each other as people and not a bunch of fucking labels?

Maybe ignorant folks would call you racist.

But if it were true, some others would step up and call you right.  Given our common experiences, it might be quicker to happen on a black forum. 

And if it were true on a wide scale, you’d be a fool for not speaking out. 

From what I’ve observed most of the time when folks are called a troll, they’re bing trollish one way or another.  Most of the time when whites are called racist, they are really being racist, as much as they don’t want to admit it.  This is my honest opinion.

They have no idea what the term really entails, just some idea that admitting it will make them evil like Hitler or in the KKK or something. 

In my honest experience, and I’m not trying to be inflammatory, many white people are flat out racist.  They all will deny it.  It doesn’t make it any less true. 

Some of my best friends are racists.

It’s true.  Racism is a product of this society and as long as a person is aware, and sees me as a human being, I can work with them when they cringe when a black guy walks past.  I’ll try to get them to see more black people as individuals and there will come a point when dang, they realize that they’re not racist anymore.  Folks have to start somewhere.

That’s why I don’t understand why whites get so worried about being racist.  Yeah, they’re racist, but not necessarily one-on-one and that’s where the bridge starts to build.

‘When will people learn to deal with each other as people and not a bunch of fucking labels?’

I’m raising my kid under the idea it’s what you do and be that matter, not your color, size, looks or cash value.  That’s exactly how I was raised; actions dictate the person you are, not preordained situations and characteristics you can’t control.

To a six-year-old, none of that matters anyway, if you can derail the marketing TV throws at them.

Maybe we should take lessons in maturity from them.

‘That’s why I don’t understand why whites get so worried about being racist.  Yeah, they’re racist, but not necessarily one-on-one and that’s where the bridge starts to build.’

And you’re purple polka-dotted.

Well, you must be, because all people named Monica are purple polka-dotted. They just don’t admit it, and may even keep it under wraps. But it’s okay, because we can work with that. You can’t help being purple polka-dotted, because you’re named Monica.

Believe it or not, some white people just aren’t racist. I really don’t give a tin shit what color anyone is or what their sexual preference is if they’re good people. Sorry about that. Being raised by a very openminded mother did that to me. Blame her.

What I object to is closemindedness, stupidity, and the use of the racist label to push a point through when it’s completely unjustified and deliberately inflammatory.

I don’t object to the statements because I’m racist. I object because they’re unjustified, rude, and a very broad generalization. Which I would take issue with no matter who posted them.

But I can see that anything posted, no matter how concise, will just be responded to with more accusations of racism, so I think I’ll move on. I wish you the best of luck with your group, and I’m still interested in helping out if I can.

Stef,

I agree a different word should be used because the r-word is a push button word to your people, like the n-word is to others.

Similarly it closes ears and hearing.

Ethnocentrist is a good word because it applies to folk of all races while the other taboo word only applies to the majority, and it means the same thing. 

I never said all whites are ethnocentrist.  Of course they aren’t.  What I said is that a LOT more whites are ethnocentric than they will admit.

I invite you to live in blackface for a month and experience the truth of my words.  The change in the percentage you estimate will be a complete life-changing shock. 

But the point is that it doesn’t matter.  Working to understand and see people as individuals is what matters, not how society has shaped us.

‘But the point is that it doesn’t matter.  Working to understand and see people as individuals is what matters, not how society has shaped us.’

But darling, some of us already do that.

I need the luck.  And I need to move on too.  This is not where I belong, obviously.

It is making me dislike writing, and become really blocked.

The blindness and meanness is making me angry to the point of tears. 

So I need to go.  Maybe one day another black person will show up to be the sacrificial lamb.  I’m tired of it and am stupid to do it.

Wow Kaite, you have said what I would have liked to say about giving offense, but would have done a poor job of. 

I was disturbed by the modeled conversation that Monica imagined would shortly take place here.  Maybe some places, and of course we have anonymous buttholes who post here just like anywhere else.  But this is smart bitches - there seems to be such a variety of reader and writer who post here. 

I am white, I have taken those tests meant to show your racism, and come up showing a preference for white people and been left going huh?  I don’t think of myself that way.  - but of course, of course some of that is inevitable.  We have to realize, and of course it has been recognized again and again, that of course we are a product of our upbringing, our color, the way people treat us in regards to our skin color, our weight, the country we are from etc.  How can we be anything less than the sum of our experiences?  We can only try to be more. I do not wish to diminish the trials of being an African American in this country.  I know they are real in a way I never understood before, being a southern transplant (that is, born on the west coast, settled in NC - I know it’s not deep south, but a huge change for me).  I know also that I will never -really- know or understand what it is to be the minority.   

All of that is just my background, not really that important to this thread, but I wanted to put it out there for some reason. 

I bought a Monica Jackson - Too Hot to Handle - as part of my summer reading.  I didn’t do it as ‘I’m going to find out what this black subgenre is all about’, it was ‘I’m trying to read authors who are part of the Smart Bitch community’.  Integration may not be the key to your struggle here, I can see your point on that, but in this case, I believe it has helped on some level, even if it’s just little me, buying a book. 

I’m wondering why it seems you have made such an effort to separate yourself from us.  I can definitely see having a solid support base of AA romance authors around you.  I can absolutely see the value of that solidarity.  BUT - Does it have to be either/or?  In this case, I, in all seriousness, think of you as part of this community.  I know I’m just a teeny tiny fish.  I’m not an author, or a pub, or a critic, just a reader.  I have no pull or power, but I am part of the teeming masses, and I value your perspective, and your work. 

- and this is a side point only, but I really enjoyed the book.  I got alot of perspective on ‘the white woman’ that I hadn’t had before, and I felt just like I feel after reading anything that is a product of a culture I didn’t grow up in; educated, a little more understanding - all of that with the distinct advantage of it being a romance novel, my favorite genre.

- and now I see I’m posting this after Monica says goodbye to the thread.  That’s what I get for being so slow.

That’s why I don’t understand why whites get so worried about being racist.  Yeah, they’re racist, but not necessarily one-on-one and that’s where the bridge starts to build.

I don’t get this at all.  Why is it that white people are racist by default?  Is it because they’re born white?

It’s automatic for whites to get defensive when a black person mentions race.

I’m not white, but I also don’t get too enthused when I hear the R word.  From what I noticed here, it seems to me that black people’s problems are so much bigger than any other minority groups’.  When Julie Leto mentioned the plight of Alisa Valdes-Rodriguez (who is segregated based on her last name!), your response wasn’t to sympathize, but to say, “From what I’ve observed, Latina romance and chick lit writers are regarded as white and not segregated.  You’re definitely not regarded as less than as and your books avoided because you’re Latina.”

If this is how you react to other minority groups’ issues, why do you expect others to blog about black writers’ problems and create more awareness, etc?

These romance readers have the right not to read blacks and to hate us too if it makes them feel good.

Your insinuation that people who don’t read black romance novels are also black-haters makes your stance less than sympathetic.  I don’t generally seek out black romance novel, but I don’t avoid it either.  I read whatever I feel like reading given the blurbs, online interactions, etc., and I don’t think I’m a racist because I choose to spend my money any way I want.

Lastly, you said, “all the publishers really care about is money.”  Given this, you should ask why the publishers currently have the AA romance programs set up the way they are now.  Perhaps this is the best way for them to maximize their profit.

Ah, the joys of the internet. Monica, you don’t know me, you’ve never seen me, and yet, when I start talking about the victimhood of the african-american community, you assume I’m white and declare me racist.

There are several classes availble on muliculturalism at the university level. I would suggest you take one. They’re quite useful for pointing out the trends in different mental triggers and cultural ‘themes’ that pervade different communities. It is not just my opinion that the AA community has an issue with being victims and being angry at the world, it is the opinion of those who professionally study this, and those people are mostly black. In fact, I don’t think I’ve had a mulitculturalism class from someone white, and the acedemic conferences on the subject are certainly darker than, say, ancient history.

Your stories may be free of this particular ‘taint’. I don’t know. I don’t think I’ll ever find out. But a majority of the AA romance books that I’ve picked up *do* have this problem, and turn me off fairly quickly. It is not color of the skin of the charecters…if it was, I’d have really serious issues. It’s an attitude problem.

Hrm. Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of bed this morning but Monica, after reading through this entire thread of comments, the original article and all the other things involved, I am just plain irritated…at you.

Am I racist? No. I am of Native American descent and could, as they say it..play the race card, but I don’t..and my last involvement was with a black man. So before I say anything I wanted that to be clear.

I felt horrible at your plight when I first read about it, not because you were black..but because you were an author who was being screwed over by a publishing company. Simple as that. I thought it was great that SB took up the flag and posted about it to get more interest in it on your behalf, and what did you do?

Whined, bitched, sniveled, cried, pity-partied and sobbed that it was ALL about race and nothing more. What a load of shit..and Custer had it coming too, yes we know. Pull your head out of your boohiney and realize..this is bad business practices made by a company who is there for black authors. Clearly they can’t manage to maintain their business, so nail them on it and stand tall and proud..not just as a black woman…but as an AUTHOR who stood her ground and won her battle. Cripes.

If any white person took up this same fight and wrote the letters you wrote verbatim but for whites…do you KNOW what kind of response would have happened? Give me a break. It’s only blacks, NA’s and others who are given this ability and that in itself is reverse racism and you used this forum and the kindess shown to you and tossed it back in SB’s faces to go sulk.

Get over yourself, stand up and fight like a woman. I don’t give a rat’s ass if you are purple, fight like a WOMAN and win against this company and STFU about the other, stop clouding basic issues with race and fight the issues you need to.

I invite you to live in blackface for a month and experience the truth of my words.

I’m sorry, but if Mistress Stef, a white woman, did that, she’d probably get beat up by white AND black people.

They have no idea what the term really entails, just some idea that admitting it will make them evil like Hitler or in the KKK or something.

Then what does it mean? No, what does that term mean to you, because you have a different definition. I was taught both by my parents and my educators (granted, who are all white, so perhaps this is a cultural difference in definition?) that racism is a feeling of superiority over other ethnicities or cultures, not just a level of discomfort with the other culture’s practice or a preference for living in one’s own.

I admit I got very emotional in my response, but that’s because as a white reader, I was beginning to feel a little more than unwanted by the black author community. I want to help you, I want to be a part of promoting the growth of understanding and mutual support as artists, but if we’re using different basic definitions for the same words—or even different contexts for those words—and we never bother to explain what we mean, how are we ever going to understand each other long enough to get past the surface statements?

Talk amongst yourselves and trash a lone black author for speaking out.  Enjoy.

What other black author is going to show up for the abuse?  Get your bats out just in case.

Okay, as someone who sparred with Monica on this very issue here not that long ago, I just wanted to make a comment on her behalf (at least I feel it’s on her behalf, even if she doesn’t interpret it that way), because I feel we’ve reached the ‘pile on’ stage here, and no matter the victim, I am way more uncomfortable with pile ons than with black people. :)

One thing I came out of my last discussion with monica on this issue with was the conclusion that she uses the word “racist” like some of us might use the word “stupid” or “bitch”—it’s not a gun toting word for her.  It’s not a word that has all the baggage or the deeply offensive connotations that it does for some of us.  As someone who uses the word quite sparingly, because I feel it’s a big accusation, I was really taken aback at first and it took me a long while to realize that Monica’s threshold judgment for what constituted racism was much much lower than mine.  That’s why she can call herself a racist and not get all skeevy about it. 

So while I personally think she’d benefit from using the “r” word more judiciously, I generally think it means more to some of us than to her.  For me that means I’ve had to adjust me responses by defusing the word in my mind when I read her comments.  Because I really do think that some of what she has to say about the persistent segregation of AA Romance is extremely important, especially for those of us readers who are constantly looking for more diversity in our Romance.

I’ve never in my life looked to see what race an author is (sometimes it’s obvious by their name, sometimes not). And I don’t buy books based on the race of an author (or the characters). Hell, I don’t even know if some of them are male or female (this can be even trickier in romance and sci-fi/fantasy as many authors take opposite gender or sexually ambiguous pen names). Same goes for music, painting, photography, etc. Who freaken cares? If it’s good I’ll read it, listen to it, put it on my wall.

I was pretty excited in Atlanta to receive a slew of books by AA writers I’d hadn’t read yet (I think half my book bag was AA romance). And after meeting the fabulous Wayne Jordan I sought out his books (Slow Motion is in my TBR pile and Embracing the Moonlight is on its way from Amazon). I got Brenda Jackson’s No More Playas at her publisher signing to add to the pile (I will admit to a moment of confusion about the title cause a “playa” is a dry lake bed where I come from and it took my brain a second to process the title).

The only proof of “discrimination” that has been offered up so far is that some stores in some parts of the country choose to shelve AA books of all genres together rather than with their actual subgenre (and lord knows we’ve hashed this issue to death on more then one occasion). To me this hardly equals the entire “romance community” being openly discriminatory about AA writers and AA romance. Perhaps we can/should add to this list the fact that there are AA romance lines? Should be consider Arabesque and Kimani racist, or are they a good kind of segregation that promotes a subgenre that would otherwise be nonexistent? I can make the argument either way . . .

I live in a predominantly black neighborhood in East Oakland (CA). I asked my neighbors last night about the shelving thing (a bunch of us had gathered on one porch for an after-work beer), and they overwhelmingly liked the idea of a section for what they called “their books”. It’s a convenience thing, they want to be able to find AA books quickly and easily without having to comb through piles of books by and about white folks. When I pointed out that this means that the vast majority of readers will miss these books as they might not even be aware that there is a separate section for them they shrugged it off. It’s this attitude that some book sellers are catering to, and they’ll continue to do so as long as they’re convinced it makes them $$$.

‘It’s not a word that has all the baggage or the deeply offensive connotations that it does for some of us.’

I did at one point try to tell her to tone down her posts because she had a valid point that was getting lost because of a confrontational attitude. She chose to escalate instead.

So while I respect your process of elimination—and tried to do it myself—I don’t quite agree that her inflammatory terminology was inadvertant.

I should stop posting in the romance community.  The only reason I do is because I know the majority of the people here aren’t my readers.  So I’m my normal activist self, writing whatever I feel.

I probably would be a lot more circumspect around my readers.

If you mean that you’d keep quiet about how you really feel I don’t think that’s a good thing.  All I’m saying is that coming as I do from a highly integrated, highly educated, somewhat affluent, and very diverse community, the reality I experience around racial and cultural issues is quite different than your experience of reality.  So while I shrug off those “all white people” connotations in your commentary, I DO think that things are not the same everywhere, and that perhaps some of the all-inclusive generalizations might not be accurate, let alone palatable, depending on where you live, with whom you associate, your profession, etc.

I think you should keep speaking out, for one reason because you’re sharp and articulate.  But some of us might simply disagree with you because our own communities might not fit in your paradigm—and as much as you want us to know how it is for you, we want you to understand how it might be for some of us.

Monica, sometimes things happen not because you are black or white or polka dotted or purple.  It’s because bad shit sometimes happen to people.  I guess that makes me a racist.

As for the problems with royalties and publishing companies screwing over their authors.  About 10-15 years ago, Robin Lee Hatcher, former RWA president and white woman, sued Leisure over their accounting policies.  I don’t remember a huge outcry over Leisure’s policies.  I don’t remember everyone racing to back Ms. Hatcher, white woman, on her lawsuit.  I’m sure she was supported. And I totally support the authors at Genesis as well. But it’s a human problem, not a racial one.

I live in a predominantly black neighborhood in East Oakland (CA). I asked my neighbors last night about the shelving thing (a bunch of us had gathered on one porch for an after-work beer), and they overwhelmingly liked the idea of a section for what they called “their books”. It’s a convenience thing, they want to be able to find AA books quickly and easily without having to comb through piles of books by and about white folks. When I pointed out that this means that the vast majority of readers will miss these books as they might not even be aware that there is a separate section for them they shrugged it off. It’s this attitude that some book sellers are catering to, and they’ll continue to do so as long as they’re convinced it makes them $$$.

I agree, Tonda, and in fact, having lived in both Northern and Southern California for many years (man, parts of Oakland have really revitalized themselves, haven’t they?), I find the separate shelving thing everywhere for every possible sub-group.  It goes back to that same old debate, IMO, about whether there’s more power in being integrated or in having a dedicated separate territory. 

Why can Arthur Golden write “Memoirs of A Geisha” even though he is a white American? Why is it that hordes of readers of all colors flock to movies and books about the Holocaust, or Amy Tan’s experiences as a Chinese-American are lauded? Or why black authors are looked at askance if they:
a) don’t write books where the characters are the second coming of “Good Times”
b) want to write characters of a different ethnic background than they are?

I think we should do a poll to determine whether the people commenting come from the Western US or the Eastern US—because I really think that makes a huge difference in this conversation.  My experience has been that in the Eastern US race is still very much a black/white issue, but in the West, it’s more Latino/White, Latino/Black, Native American/White/Black, Asian/White, Chinese/Vietnames, etc. etc.  Where I live, in the way out West, multicultural literature is embraced, mainstreamed, and lauded.

Also, I think we need to look at different genres differently.  For example, look at the tremendous success of authors like Alice Walker, Terry MacMillan, Toni Morrison, and Maya Angelou in lit fic and poetry.  Or Frank Yerby.  Or Octavia Butler in Sci-fi.  In lit fic especially, the non-white perspective is actually elevated to some degree, I think.  In fact, one discussion I’ve heard quite often is over the question of whether non-white authors feel they must represent an entire cultural perspective.  And this, I guess, goes to your point about white authors writing other cultures and races v. non-white authors doing so.  That’s a really interesting point and perhaps part of an Anglo-American colonialist mentality, perhaps?  My question, then, would be whether people here think that point holds or not.  I don’t know—I can think of some examples in both directions, but it’s IMO a very interesting place to start a discussion.

Or you can discuss why you can only sit around and discuss black people and their issues when none of them are present to comment.

How do you know? This is the internet, not somebody’s backyard party.

I could say nobody who dares to speak up and admit they are black and how they feel about about tings affect them. 

I can see how that would be scary up in here.

I could say nobody who dares to speak up and admit they are black and how they feel about about tings affect them.

And you’re assuming you will be able to anticipate this because all black people think alike?

Isn’t that the whole problem we’ve been bitching about? People assuming they know what black people think and what the stories they write will be like?

I’m tired of this whole discussion. ALL people are assholes, in their own special, beautiful ways. If others must pigeon-hole them to feel better about their world, fine. Put your thoughts and feelings into little tiny boxes and label them and store them up for next Christmas. Just understand you are missing the incredible beauty and variety of humanity by doing so. Not all white people think alike. Not all black people think alike, either.

And I’m not so disingenuous to say that they do.

Back in the day, when black people were in a lynching mob, they all thought alike.  The thought was,
“RUN!”

Haha

Shaking my own head.

Anonymous post and no linkback. At least Monica had the intestinal fortitude to show who she really was, no matter how unpopular her views. That’s worth respect.

You, however, are not. Anonymous posts are chickenshit.

I’m with Mistress Stef on the Anonymous posts are chickenshit, and while I have no idea of the race of most of the people posting here I know for a FACT that Candy and I aren’t white, and I’m not about to assume that Monica is/was the only AA person who reads and posts on this site.

Oh, only the people saying bad things about black people get to post anon.  I get it.  Will go away too, now.  Carry on.

I’ve tried to write a response to all this many times and much of what I meant to say has been said. 

The original intent of this post was “what can we do to help?”

That never got an answer.  I can’t quite see the catch-22 of “all whites are racist, but you’re welcome to join this black writers’ blog, but we have to stay separate to be strong.”  And I’m posting anonymously, but the SB’s have my email from previous communication—I just prefer not to post it and invite spam or hatemail.

I do have a suggestion for something that might be helpful in alleviating some of the neglect of a/a romances, at least in e-books:  Joyfully Reviewed has, for several weeks, been posting ‘help wanted’ for people to review a/a, multicultural, and f/f books.

I thought about volunteering… but y’know—I didn’t.  Not because I wouldn’t like to read the books, but because I did not need somebody labeling me racist if I didn’t like an a/a book.  Then again, to be fair, quite a few black men jumped all over Alice Walker for the mysogynistic SOB in “Color Purple,” even though he was probably drawn from life.

But there’s something constructive that anyone can do:  sign up and review some a/a romances.  If reviewers start saying “This is a Good Book!” odds are readers will be willing to pick it up.

It’s got to beat yelling at people who really do want to help.

The really sad thing about racism ... it goes in both directions and hurts all of us.

What I don’t get is how one single person expressing her experiences that none of you have ever shared or can know gets so much group anger and judgment?

Who asked you to do anything?  All it was
communication and one AA person trying to share their point of view about something that might interest you.

Bet you get a lot of AAs around here sharing their point of view.

‘Oh, only the people saying bad things about black people get to post anon.  I get it.  Will go away too, now.  Carry on.’

No, chickenshit is chickenshit, regardless of race.

Bet you get a lot of AAs around here sharing their point of view.

Last I checked, the only people who said they were white was me and Kaite.

Several have said they were AA, several most posted they were members of other minorities.

So yeah, I guess they do. Thanks for the observation. That’s the most helpful thing you posted.

Posted by Anon

PS. It’s still chickenshit.

People are going on like I hate white people and think they are all the R-word because I spoke my truth and experience on this board. 

It was a mistake.  I apologize.  I should never have shared my perceptions and experiences with you.

I will try not to ever do it again on your venues. 

A final word from Tim Wise, a white male. 

This is how I sincerely feel some of you regard me.  This is how it feels to venture out here to hostile territory and and share my feelings on this sensitive topic.

How many of you have the courage to discuss your feelings on our boards and places?  You won’t even respond on my blog, but copy and paste what I’ve written here, where you are safe among you own, no matter what abuse and meanness you hurl at me for speaking my truth and perceptions. 

Denial is its own form of racism: the racism of people who don’t hate, perhaps, but who, with the simple act of denial, obliterate and negate the reality of people of color. In many ways that’s worse than hate. To hate someone, you at least have to see them, acknowledge them. But to deny that person’s reality altogether is to make them forever invisible. It denies them their humanity in a way that hatred never can.

Okay, depp breaths.  Sorry I’ve come to the party late, ladies, but when I’d visited this site on Tuesday, I didn’t see a mention of the PW article and thought (wrongly) that it wouldn’t be discussed here.

And I would like us to get back to discussing it here.  I posted about it on my own blog.  I would like for those who feel irritated, outraged, or just generally P.O.d that a publisher would do this to its writers, to also blog about it.  I don’t know how long news takes to proliferate through the internet, but it’s out now.  If you’re concerned, spread the word.  Thanks.

All authors and readers and people aren’t like.  I would urge everyone to dial it back on the blanket statements.

I would also urge those who think all AA romances are about the race of the characters/being put down by the man to actually walk over to the AA section of the store and flip through more of them.  (The romances, not the urban fiction.  Since they’re all grouped together, it may be difficult to tell which is which.) My interracials deal with race in a glancing way.  My AA romances are not about race at all, but people struggling with various issues.  I think you’ll find more AA romances are like other romances than not.  But you won’t know if you don’t flip through them.

Thanks for reading this far.

‘People are going on like I hate white people and think they are all the R-word because I spoke my truth and experience on this board.’

Well, allow me to quote you:

‘I swear as stimulating as these discussions are, I’m beginning to get tired.’

‘So I did it advance.  I hope you don’t mind.  (Followed by a post where you place words in everyone’s mouth before they respond on their own.)’

Choice comments like:

“I am not a racist.”

‘Answer:  Sorry, but if you’re so defensive about intent on denying raicsm exists, you probably are.  Fortunately, you’ll be able to live quite well with that fact.  Us, since there are so damn many of you, not so much.’ 

Those are YOUR words. You essentially told us that by stating we’re not racist, we’re denying racism, and therefore are racist.

How else are we supposed to take it?

You made assumptions of how you would be treated and started in on us before we said a single negative thing to you. I don’t know what thread you’re reading, but it’s all right there.

‘You won’t even respond on my blog, but copy and paste what I’ve written here, where you are safe among you own, no matter what abuse and meanness you hurl at me for speaking my truth and perceptions.’

I didn’t respond on your blog because it’s rude to go to someone’s personal forum and blast them in their own arena just because they don’t agree with your beliefs or terminology.

But you wouldn’t know anything about that.

‘I would like for those who feel irritated, outraged, or just generally P.O.d that a publisher would do this to its writers, to also blog about it.  I don’t know how long news takes to proliferate through the internet, but it’s out now.  If you’re concerned, spread the word.  Thanks.’

If there’s an offical press release somewhere, let me know. I’ll post it to my private author list; they’re a good bunch of bloggers.

I’m certainly PO’d.

Mistress Stef

Thank you for accepting and not denying my heartfelt apology for having the gall to share my perceptions and previous experiences with you, and understanding exactly what I meant.

I accept your denial of me and everything I said and have experienced. 

Denial is its own form of racism: the racism of people who don’t hate, perhaps, but who, with the simple act of denial, obliterate and negate the reality of people of color. In many ways that’s worse than hate. To hate someone, you at least have to see them, acknowledge them. But to deny that person’s reality altogether is to make them forever invisible. It denies them their humanity in a way that hatred never can.

Monica…

The only person denying anything is you. The rest of us actually read the posts.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

Now THERE’S a quote.

Did you?  I really don’t think you did. 

The people who made thoughtful posts didn’t deny their racism.  They rarely bought it up.  The angry, mean posters inevitably did.  In fact, that’s all their posts were generally about—how I was a awful person for implying they were R, exactly what I’d ALWAYS experienced before and what my inital post referred to. 

When you asked me to tone it down, what I tried to communicate what the word meant to me.  I said everyone was, even myself because we were ara product of this society.  I said I had no problem relating with people like that as long as they were willing to see me as a individual and it was a bridge to understanding.  You took the post as a dire insult and insulted, put me down and degraded me.

I never called indivudals the r-word unless their posts clearly reflected it.  I never called you teh r-word.  You’ve insulted, denigrated me and said what I’ve experienced in my life simply wasn’t true. 

I accept that you mean that.  I can move on despite you dislike me, misunderstand me and everything I’m about and dismissing my perceptions or anything i say about my life.

You can’t seem move past the experience I shared about how people treat me in my world. 

And I apologize for unsettling you and whoever else I did by sharing my world.

Stef:

Publisher Weekly’s online post about it is here:
http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6372747.html?display=current

If the link doesn’t work, I link to it from my own lonely part of the blogosphere: http://www.seressia.com/blog

Thanks.

Sent to my author list, Seressia. I’d blog myself, but my author site’s what you call in transit. I will once my web goddesses get it back up.

Other than that, is there anything else? Would writing letters to anyone help?

Thanks for showing up, Seressia. 

I leave it to your tact and prudence. 

Later!

Quote “You’ve insulted, denigrated me and said what I’ve experienced in my life simply wasn’t true.” Unquote

Pot meet kettle.

Quote where I called Stef names or insulted her for what’s she’s experienced or shared. 

All I ever said was something most people like me but are too wise and tactful to state openly.

What upset Stef and the rest was of you was when I stated that I found most whites the r-word.  And then worse, tried to explain what I meant. 

I wish I hadn’t shared that.  It was something that never should have been said on such a venue.  I apologized. 

What else do you want me to do?

‘Thanks for showing up, Seressia. I leave it to your tact and prudence.’ 

So you’re the night shift? Cool. Tell me more about your books.

I blogged about it and I e-mailed Miss Snark. She and I have corresponded sporadically about other things. She even wrote me a haiku, once. I hope she’ll blog about this because she has a huge readership. If you can think of something else I can do to get the word out, let me know. I could e-mail Agent Kristin too; I correspond with her sometimes as well. I will get people talking about if I can.

‘I blogged about it and I e-mailed Miss Snark.’

I think she’s the cool chick I met at RT last year.

Trying to recall, I think they’re called the Absolute Write Water Cooler? It’s a forum for people to check out pubs. I wonder if they’re on it yet.

Hee. I just posted a thread about it on Absolute Write. I’m doing what little I can.

I don’t see the point in debating whether I am racist. I’m a white woman living in Mexico. I am a minority here. I try to help people when I can and speak no evil, and I do the best I can with what life has handed me. It is what it is.

‘I try to help people when I can and speak no evil, and I do the best I can with what life has handed me. It is what it is.’

You rock. That’s like the best thing I’ve heard in this thread.

All I’m saying is when you make blanket statements or you use words or phrases such as “you people” or “you venues”, you deny any other indiviuality except for your own. You deny all others personal experiences. And yes, you’re right, denial is a form of racsism.

And now to quote Gump, That’s all I have to say about that.

I remember you, Ana.  Is your husband’s family treating you okay?

I wish I had somebody to hit me on the noggin when I bring it up.  Every other black person in the universe has more sense, but I get emotional.  There is nothing worse a black person could ever do. 

The more the word gets out about GP, the better, especially to the larger literary community.

LOL!  Hardly the night shift—more like the pinch hitter since this is more posting than I think I’ve ever done in one day. (Was the FMA in your early post referring to Full Metal Alchemist?  I have to go buy the DVD tomorrow!)

My first book was an interracial called No Commitment Required, published in 2000 by Genesis Press.  Race wasn’t an issue for the characters but some people around them had issues.  They had their own issues to deal with (deaths, suicide attempts, etc.) but they found common ground in each other. 

Its sequel No Apologies came out in 2002, also through Genesis, featuring their friends.  My third book with Genesis was Three Wishes in 2004, with the biracial heroine and white hero.  Race was a mild issue for them, but again, more for the people around them.  She couldn’t have children, his daughter wanted a mother, he wanted someone to love him and his child.

Through the Fire came out this year, my last book with Genesis Press.  Brandt is Maya’s brother grappling with the deaths of his wife and child, and the heroine is a famous self-help guru with issues of her own.  I have my first paranormal featuring a family of AA werewolves, in an anthology called Vegas Bites coming out in November.  New publisher, new hope.  But I can say I got paid the advance for that way before the book came out, which is refreshing—an advance that’s actually paid in advance.

I like writing interracials in that I like to show how people from supposedly disparate backgrounds can have similarities that bind them together.  Everybody wants to be loved and accepted, right?

Lord, that’s enough. I think I need a drink now.

Good deal, Seressia, you’re a wonderful example of how to carry oneself.  And your books rock, esp. No Commitment Required

I like writing interracials in that I like to show how people from supposedly disparate backgrounds can have similarities that bind them together.  Everybody wants to be loved and accepted, right?

I said something similar myself.

Monica, the less said about that, the better. I am officially a non-person.

(Was the FMA in your early post referring to Full Metal Alchemist?  I have to go buy the DVD tomorrow!)

Oh, HELLS yes. I’m going to take a break at 12:30 and watch Inuyasha and FMA. I have the movie, but I’m making myself wait until I’ve seen all the episodes, and it’s torture! The curse of it not coming on until 1 am when I have to get up for the day job at 6; I missed a lot of them and saw others out of sequence.

‘My first book was an interracial…’

Nice. They sound more like mainstream contemp than the usual ‘romance’.  Is that right?

Now, are you one of the folks getting reprinted by Kensington?

‘I like writing interracials in that I like to show how people from supposedly disparate backgrounds can have similarities that bind them together.  Everybody wants to be loved and accepted, right?’

Spoken like a true FMA fan.

Definately. I think that factor combined with the exotic aspect are most important.

Ana,  Oh no! 

Sigh.  Feel free to e-mail me privately if you want to talk.

I should be in bed.  There’s a full time job out there with a conference call at 9 am followed by a staff meeting that I must be properly caffeinated for.

I understand that people see red when the “R” word or the “N” word are used.  It’s hard not to cringe or get defensive or flame or hit delete.  That tells me that we still have a long way to go.  I mean collectively we, not ethnically we.  I think there still needs to be discourse on racism, because there are multiple levels of racism, most of which don’t involve white sheets or burning crosses.

This isn’t the forum for that though— unless we talk about it as it relates to romance, which it seems we’ve gotten away from.  Can we go back?  Please?  Mulligan?  (please, if you’re Irish, don’t be offended at that last one)

Can we stop the Monica bashing?  She’s explained.  She’s even apologized.  Let it go.

Thanks to those who are spreading the word.  We appreciate it.  I’ve really got to go to bed now.

I was over at Monica’s site yesterday reading about some of the ideas for promoting AA fiction and the idea of a website/blog of honest reviews of AA fiction came up.

I think this is an exciting idea, especially for AA/IR Romance. I have never read an AA romance - not because I’m against it, but because I really can’t tell from glancing at an obviously AA book if it’s Chic Lit, Lit, or Romance without name recognition. (In most of the bookstores I’ve been to they’ve all been grouped together.) Everybody knows Nora Roberts is a romance author, but the only AA romance author I can name off the top of my head is Monica because she posts here. I can’t say how many times I’ve read a review here of an author I’d never heard about, only to run out and buy it. I’ve even had to resort to ordering on-line at times. I think it’s only my ignorance that keeps me from doing the same for AA romance, esp. since some days I get so bored with the same old authors I would kill for something with a different perspective, to whatever degree.

...I know this yearning isn’t about Genesis, but I just thought I’d throw it out there.

‘I understand that people see red when the “R” word or the “N” word are used.  It’s hard not to cringe or get defensive or flame or hit delete.  That tells me that we still have a long way to go.’

I have one last thing to say on this. I am not attacking Monica—I have seen this behavior numerous times on many forums, which is why I want to comment. This is intended to clarify and help.

It doesn’t matter how you personally feel about a button-pushing word or term when you use it in a public forum, what matters is how other people react to it, and whether you use it in reference to behavior or apply it directly to a group.

I may consider motherfucker to be a fairly benign word with only mild negative connotations and many ranges of definition, but that’s doesn’t mean I can say a certain group of people are motherfuckers and not expect several members of that group not to get on my case about it—and most likely miss what else I have to say.

Even if the world ‘all’ isn’t actually used, speaking of a group suggests it.

You can’t expect the members of a group not to feel singled out if you’re talking about their people, and then complain you weren’t talking to them directly. While admirable that it’s possible to view people as entities outside the generalalities of race and creed, the human tendency is to assume they are part of any generalization. That’s not paranoia, that’s logic.

However, it’s usually safe to say a certain group has tendencies toward behaving like motherfuckers without calling everyone in that group directly a motherfucker, and then mention why.

Then those who aren’t don’t apply the label to themselves, because hey, I posted that SOME people in a group ACT like motherfuckers, and I presented a damn good argument. I’m commenting on the BEHAVIOR of SOME, not applying to label directly to all. Semantics? Maybe. But it works.

If they read the post and my reasons for motherfuckerism don’t apply to them personally, they don’t get offended. In fact, they’ll probably share similar experiences. God knows, we’ve all been around motherfuckers.

Then the learning can start, and views passed on and debated clearly without the initial “What did you call me?” reaction.

Those who are motherfuckers will probably cause problems, sure. Most likely, my message won’t reach them, but true motherfuckers have no interest in changing anyway.

The reason for saying what I did was to reach a better understanding with members of the group who aren’t motherfuckers, but may not be aware of the members of the group who are, and what they do. Then instead of the whole group getting up in arms, only the true motherfuckers show their colors.

Then the people who SHOULD get a ration of crap get it, instead of the well-meaning folk who actually bore no ill will other than being angry and wanting to share.

Thank you.

I know this yearning isn’t about Genesis, but I just thought I’d throw it out there.

I have read Kayla Perrin, personally—I believe she’s a Genesis author, or was. I really liked it—had a Terry McMillan feel. Brainfarting on the title, but it was about three women done wrong who kick the bastards’ asses.

I’ve worked with Wanda Hudson, Adrienne Kama, and Felicia Cummings at my old ebook company, and I recommend all three. Great voices. Kr Wilson as well.

I know there are more, but those are the ones I recall offhand.

Thanks. I’ll look into them.

I am new to this site and cant believe I am choosing this thread to delurk. I was very disturbed by reading this thread and the subsequent responses to the posting on September 21st. I think lots of great points were made that were totally lost in the vitriol and defensiveness on September 20. I think what people need is a little introspection. And found a great article at www.stockton.edu/~teaching/bildner/TalkingAboutRace.pdf that could help explain why the discussion devolved into name calling and defensiveness as it did.

Interesting marketing strategy.

1. Accuse all non-Blacks of racism.
2. Offer solution in form of buying one’s books.

(Apologies to Mistress Stef for chickenshittery.)

Yeah, but you admit you’re chickenshit. That gets you half respect.

*deep breath*

Glad to see Monica’s sticking around, and will continue to contribute to SB as a place to communicate with a more diverse range of readers and writers in the genre. Good to hear the warning about Genesis, and to collectively offer sympathy to those affected by the shady business dealings.