Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

I would certainly love it if there were more romances with happily plus-sized leading ladies.  Or men too, I suppose.  I think there tend to be more body variations in lesbian romance, which is my cup of tea anyway but not for everyone.  There are also some younger romances and fantasies and so on with wonderful plus-sized heroines.  “Princess Ben” by Catherine Gilbert Murdock is a wonderful example, but it is mostly a fantasy/magic/adventure with a little romance thrown in at the end.

Susan Donovan tends to use larger women in her stories… although ‘large’ is defined as size 14-16 instead of size 0-2. Still, that’s progress, to have average sizes being ok, without glorifying Barbie proportions.  Insecurities and cellulite are allowed.

Her story HE LOVES LUCY is about a gal who is 100 pounds overweight. He’s her gorgeous trainer, and both are involved in a bet to get her in shape by the end of the year.  They’re doing it as part of an advertising campaign that is being tracked by millions on TV as it happens.

I really enjoy her books. Light and funny.  In fact, I wish she’d hurry up and write another one.

Diane

He Loves Lucy was one that angered me because she didn’t get her HEA until she lost weight. The Next Big Thing was another one. When someone touts a book as a larger sized heroine oftentimes the larger sized is the anti-heroine and she becomes the heroine with her HEA once she’s not larger sized.

Pet peeve I have to admit. Confident, fat and happy just aren’t found in classic romance. And I want so desperately to read them.

The first book that I have ever read which had a plus-sized leading lady was Night Play by Sherrilyn Kenyon and I liked the fact that she wasn’t a twig and even more I liked the fact that her hero loved that there was something to her. It’s been a long time since I’ve read that book and I don’t recall reading another one since then.

It would be nice, though, and also more realistic to have plus sized women starring in these roles. I’m going to have to check out that Susan Donovan book. I haven’t read her yet.

Bet me by Jennifter Crusie is one of my favourite romance books and stars a character whose plus-size is a great part of the story.

STA: Lula in JE Stephanie Plum annoys me.  If she’d just stick with the descriptions she’d be fine. If you are skinny DON’T PUT   A NUMBER ON THE WEIGHT b/c you have no idea what you are talking about!!  Before I started loosing weight I was really close to Lula’s “stats” and nowhere near as big as Lula was described. I could not sit on a 6’3” grown ass man and squish him into crying “uncle” like Lula could!!  200 lbs may sound HUGE to JE but it’s not as big as she described Lula AT ALL!

UGH.

I want a plus size heroine that does NOT diet herself into a happy ending.  I was skinny when I met hubby and now I’m not so skinny and guess what? He still loves me and finds me SEXY! What do ya know?? LOL

I’m gonna try out the books you mentioned Sarah!

My eBooks/eBook stash, let me show u them. I have mb on mb worth of BBW romance!

This is one way eBooks are miles ahead of their tree counterparts. BBW’s abound!

The majority of my stories have BBW heroines - not that their size is necessarily a major part of the story. I’ve even got a heroine with a disability who is plus sized. And their men? The men love them that way, they aren’t stories about changing who you are to be suitable for the hero/es.

LI even has a full figured heroine category, as does EC.

I have many issues with NY versions of BBW romance (not all, but a majority), but if I listed them I’d be here for hours.

Lori,

I agree—I’d like to see plus-sized being an ok HEA too, w/o losing weight.  But I think at least LUCY addressed some of the issues and insecurites, and did a better job than most books do.  It was good for a few chuckles, too, which never hurts.  And at least Theo loved her long before she lost the weight, which is more than can be said for a lot of plus-sized books. 

I remember reading several categories over the years about women who were overweight, got slim during the course of the book, and the hero begged them to put the weight back on because they were ‘too skinny’  and he’d loved her just the way she was.  Of course, I can’t recall the titles at the moment, and they are long out of print anyway. Sigh.  Another book (also a category), both the heroine and hero were overweight.  Of course both had to lose the weight before they got their HEA, which was annoying.

Helen Brooks recently had one w/ a heroine with more curves than currently in fashion (whatever that means). The hero loved the curves.

Diane

The book that got me into romance novels had a bigger heroine, though not that I’m thinking of it she may fall into category 4 haha.  I’m talking about Min from Jennifer Crusie’s Bet Me.  But I didn’t care about her dress size, what I cared about was her insecurity about her weight, and most of all, how Cal didn’t care about it.  I think Bet Me has become my major comfort novel when I think the whole world is being crappy to me.  There are so many great scenes (like the one where he’s telling her she’s not fat, just “lush” and turns himself on, or the one in the dressing room where he makes her try on another dress that fits her better…sexy), and I didn’t feel like Cal was betwitched by her Magical Hoo Hoo, so it rang true for me.

I also really liked Jennifer Weiner’s Good In Bed, and Cannie (I think that was her name, I read the book a few years ago) was DEFINITELY plus sized.  It’s a chick lit as opposed to a romance, but it was really well done.  She doesn’t diet or anything, but comes to terms with herself.  Hmmm I read Liza Palmer’s Confessions with the Fat Girl recently but didn’t like it as much as Good in Bed.  But it was still good :)

He Loves Lucy was one that angered me because she didn’t get her HEA until she lost weight. The Next Big Thing was another one. When someone touts a book as a larger sized heroine oftentimes the larger sized is the anti-heroine and she becomes the heroine with her HEA once she’s not larger sized.

Pet peeve I have to admit. Confident, fat and happy just aren’t found in classic romance. And I want so desperately to read them.

Oh you and me both!! This and why plus sized heroines always seem to be in comedies - as if being plus sized is a perennial stand up comedy. Now I like comedies - heck I even wrote a BBW comedy of my own - but I want some gripping suspense stories, urban fantasies and all the rest to go with it!

Like Anon, I enjoyed Donovan’s He Loves Lucy, and appreciated the fact that while *Lucy* was geared to lose the weight, by the end of the book the hero proves that he fell for her before she did so. I think it put a real focus on the fact that what we think goes through others’ minds when they see us, we can’t read what’s up there and may be pretty darned off!

SORRY. That’s Liza Palmer’s “Conversations with the Fat Girl” for any who are interested in reading.

The wonderful Renae Johnson, author of full-figured-heroine erotic romance, has a story out with Loose Id in an anthology called Going Up, Going Down. In fact, I think both of the stories in the book are about plus-sized heroines. Not that you can tell that from the teensy little cover model. Bless her heart.

Also, agent Nathan Bransford said he’s gotten a slew of queries lately for women’s fic with plus-sized heroines, and for whatever reason, he’s perplexed as to the source of this sudden influx.

Bet Me by Jennifer Crusie features a heroine who learns love her curves, it’s clear by the end of the book that dieting is not going to be a part of her happily ever after.

I will make one note in defense of He Loves Lucy, there’s curvy (I describe myself as Rubenesque personally) and then there’s the point at which your courting health issues. I was reading Lucy’s starting point in that book as physically as well as emotionally unhealthy regarding her weight. So the diet didn’t bother me profoundly, but do definitely like seeing heroines who aren’t trying to a size 2-much less 0 (now there’s a size to give a girl a complex, if your trying for zero your trying be nothing).

And finally with the caveat that I haven’t read most of them All About Romance has a list of titles of books that feature curvy heroines. http://www.likesbooks.com/curvy.html

I remember reading a book with a plus sized heroine that got her HEA without losing weight. But I can’t remember the title, nor the author.

She is an baker with her own bakery, close to a mall or something, and she also does catering. She usually doesn’t serve at the catering events herself, but this time she had to, and she meets the hero. I think he owned a restaurant and wanted her to make desserts for him, and she baked him different things to test. I seem to remember her having a beautiful skinny sister. The heroines insecurities about her size led to her breaking up with the hero, and not believing him. At the end there was something with a blue dress, and her being proud of wearing it, and a HEA.

Why can’t I ever remember important information, like titles, but I can see the plot in front of my eyes?

Considering that I’ve never met a plus sized, “average,” or fat woman who isn’t obsessed or concerned or worried about her weight and society’s perceptions about her, I don’t know how realistic this heroine would be.

I think the plus-sized heroine in Time Traveling Romances is almost #5 in your list, and at the very least, a distinct variation of #4.  (It might not be either, if it’s a numbers game, as I imagine it doesn’t have the size base that 1-4 have.)

You know, the heroine who is overweight (but it’s established that it’s the kind of overweight that is simply not the pop-culture standard of thin/beauty), and she travels back in time to a period wherein the historically-native hero thinks she’s A) normal or B) thin by his time period’s standards.

Also, there is the case of the voluptuous in paranormal, particularly with weres & shifters, who are, apparently, so freakin’ big (in body as well as…spirit) that they need/want a larger woman. 

And what do these say about our current culture?  That HEA is still not available for the real woman today?  I don’t know.

One of the things that first drew me to Karen Marie Moning’s Highlander series was the fact that her heroines were on the plump and realistic side. And they stayed that way.

Before I started loosing weight I was really close to Lula’s “stats” and nowhere near as big as Lula was described. I could not sit on a 6’3” grown ass man and squish him into crying “uncle” like Lula could!!  200 lbs may sound HUGE to JE but it’s not as big as she described Lula AT ALL!

AMEN, Tracy! At 5’6”, 209 lbs., I wore a size 18. I’ve lost nearly 20 lbs. and now wear a 16. (Have to lose weight for health reasons not for body image/feel good about myself reasons). Writers need to get a firm grip on body types. 6’4”, 170 does not well-muscled mantitty make. That’s skinny.

Well, should we then start having fat heroes, then? Have the educated and wilful baronet’s daughter fall for the rotund, but witty and good-hearted earl?

Plus-sized heroines are rare, but there are hundred times more of them than plus-sized heroes.

Now, before you get on my case let me say I’m finally glad there’s a double-standard that goes against men because there are way too many against women, but think about it.

I saw the trailer for the Mo’nique movie Phat Girlz, and it’s the one where Mo’nique, a fat woman, falls for a sexy Nigerian doctor. Now, I’m fine with Mo’nique, but the trailer involved her obviously checkin’ out the Nigerian’s rock-hard abs. She’s tired of being judged by her appearance and yet she’s doing the same thing to the doctor!

If we can have physically imperfect heroines, why not physically imperfect heroes? They can be witty, funny, smart, rich, and good in bed regardless of weight. I’m frankly tired of all those “beauty and the beast” stories where the hero has, like, one scar or some pock marks but is still sexy regardless (I’m looking at YOU, Raven Prince).

As for curvy heroines (because, yes, we still need more of those too), Bet Me is the highest on my list (Mmmm….donuts) - I especially liked how turned on the hero gets when Min the heroine’s happy eating. I loved that, that he found who she WAS (and not what she was trying to be) sexy. He also made this comment in the novel about how some dishes just weren’t tasty enough without oil and butter and sugar in them, and he means Min when he’s saying it. Le sigh…

Second on this would be maybe The Wicked Ways of a Duke by Laura Lee Gurhke - which has the heroine struggling (entirely unsuccessfully) to have a fashionable twenty-inch (!!!) waist. She has trouble with her weight (and often goes without eating), but once the hero’s in the picture she completely forgets about it and he’s too horny to even notice. It’s only at the end when the hero’s lie is revealed that her weight issues come back, but in a realistic way.

I’m not plus size, but I’m no 2 either, and I hate the cultural pressure to be super-thin. What a friggin’ waste of time. I LOVE reading books where the heroine is physically different in some way. Give me someone with a big rump, a space between her teeth or big feet any day. It’s interesting. It’s real.

But here’s a question for us all: How do we feel about a less than McHotterson Hero? Big nose seems to be okay (and I think you’re right about historicals being more accepting of imperfections). Scars, sure. How about a pot belly? Uh-huh. Not so certain now, are we? My favorite example of this was Charlotte’s HEA in Sex and the City. Actually, Miranda’s Steve, although certainly hot in his own way, was also interestingly imperfect (leaving aside the one testicle).

Just finished a humongous rewrite and have missed hanging out here, but look forward to seeing you in San Francisco!

Ah! I see Anime June and I were tuned into each other’s thoughts!

In mine, I have 3 female protagonists.

Female #1 lost the weight before story begins, eats low-carb and doesn’t deviate from (except oh, the chocolate in bed, which is negated by the ah…protein factor), but it’s just a part of her life so it’s mentioned but doesn’t get a lot of play.

Female #2 is Rubenesque and is going hungry trying to lose the weight.  Her insecurities about it are only briefly mentioned, but her male counterpart likes Rubenesque women so when she takes up female #1’s eating habits, stops going hungry, and loses weight (side effect, not the goal), he is NOT a happy camper.

Female #3 has no issues.

I guess this is going to get me hated on, but I just have to say it.  I hate reading books with plus-sized heroes/heroines.  Very rarely will I find one that has the person being ok with their size.  I hate reading a book that is filled with inner angst that sounds really neurotic and obsessive.  Even if they do find their HEA I find it very unbelievable.  I really don’t think that you will ever accept that someone really loves you if you can’t even like yourself.  The fact that more often than not every other page has the character thinking about being fat really jars me out of the flow of the story.  Let it go people.  If you want to be thin, then exercise.  If you like your body type how it is then fuck everyone else who doesn’t.

I’m not sure I’ve ever read a romance with a fat heroine that I’ve been entirely pleased with.

I will be following up on other people’s recommendations here.

It would be nice to read about heroine’s being more realistic in size or insecurities, but the hero’s need to be also.  How believable is it that they are all devastatingly handsome, built, well-endowed, titled, etc.

There should be no weight loss to appease, only a change in attitude in how a character sees his/herself. 

There should be more focus on how the characters fall in love with the personality and not just the looks or the “amazing” sex.

The market is just too flooded with these unbelievable stories and I don’t know if it’s the readers or the publishing houses fault, but things need to change.

Considering that I’ve never met a

plus sized, “average,” or fat

woman who isn’t obsessed or concerned or worried about her weight and society’s perceptions about her, I don’t know how realistic this heroine would be.

I think it’s possible to write a believable story about an “overweight” or even an “obese” woman, who is not trying to lose weight, who is dealing with society’s perception of her body, and who is also having hot sex.  These women do exist in the real world.

What about Katie McAllister’s romance novels? I’ve never read her paranormals but her contemporaries (Corset Diaries, A Hard Day’s Knight) had plus-sized heroines and I don’t think that they felt they had to lose weight in order to do anything. (It has been awhile since I read them so I might be wrong…)

But here’s a question for us all: How do we feel about a less than McHotterson Hero? Big nose seems to be okay (and I think you’re right about historicals being more accepting of imperfections). Scars, sure. How about a pot belly? Uh-huh. Not so certain now, are we?

Well, there’s Miles Vorkosigan from Lois McMaster Bujold’s series - he’s not likely to win any beauty contests (the cover art on some of those books doesn’t help this impression in the slightest), but I have to say, he’s one of the “sexiest” heroes I’ve ever encountered in fiction.

Personally, I don’t really care about a heroine’s size, so long as her behavior makes sense and she’s not whiny about it (and I found Cannie Shapiro in Good in Bed to be extremely whiny). I think variety in terms of heroines’ sizes and looks is good, but I do agree that we’re not exactly seeing tons of rounder heroes, either. And I also agree that most women I know who are, say, higher than an American size 12 are not happy about their weight (full disclosure: I’m neither a 2 nor a 12). Body type matters - some women look and feel fine with bigger, curvier bodies; for others, it just doesn’t work, regardless of what society is or isn’t telling us. The key thing is to be healthy and to be happy with yourself, and yes, both can be hard to do.

Recommendations: Min from Bet Me is definitely good. I think Penelope in Romancing Mr. Bridgerton was a bit on the plump side, as was Cecilia, the heroine of A Woman of Virtue by Liz Carlyle. Both of those books are enjoyable (I prefer A Woman of Virtue). Celeste Bradley had a book with a plus-sized heroine but the title escapes me. And Claire in Outlander is not overweight, but she’s not exactly waif-thin, either, and neither she nor Jamie seem to be bothered by that.

Homely heroes?  I’d read ‘em.  Of course, I’m one of those drab, boring people who likes beta heroes, too :).  Mostly I like variety—in personality, in appearance, in status, etc.  It is nice when, at the end of the story, you can believe their lives together are going to be awesome, so for them to be comfortable financially, emotionally, mentally and maybe physically (with any health risks) is preferable.  But they don’t have to be gorgeous or insanely rich or the rulers of a make-believe country for me to believe in their personalized HEA.

SarahT—anything is possible, but that’s not necessarily the heroine people want to read about. I don’t want my men in romance and erotica to be unnatractive and I don’t want my women that way either.

I don’t read that type of fiction for a dose of reality but to escape into a world of impossible, unnatainable ideals, where the hero and heroine can ride horse back through grueling country for a week straight without showering, still look good, and then still have hot, tittilating, beautiful-looking sex.

If women are looking to their fiction to feel better about themselves, and they need “average” looking women to attain that—that’s a problem. You can have all the fat women you want in a book or movie happily fucking away with no regard to their appearance, but that won’t actually make anyone feel good about their own bodies or lives if they didn’t already have that confidence to begin with.

I think the reason it’s impossible to find fat heroines who aren’t super obnoxious and totally obsessed with losing weight to get their happily ever after is because the majority of those heroines are written by authors who are struggling with their own weight issues, and using these heroines as an outlet for their frustration.

It’s hard to say what I want to say here, because, being a fat person myself (no, not a “I don’t look like Jennifer Aniston” fat person, but an honest-to-God, over 100lbs. overweight fat person), I don’t have a lot of the same insecurity issues that some fat people have.  But I have fat friends, and I find that a lot of what they blame their weight for—loss of relationships, loss of friendships, general unhappiness—has nothing at all to do with the physical state of being fat, but the mental state of being fat, and being totally consumed with being fat, to the point that they equate being fat with being worthless.  They treat themselves that way, they let others treat them that way, and they use “I’m fat” as an excuse to not work on other glaring flaws with themselves.  They honestly seem to believe that if they just lose the weight, they’ll be instantly a better person, not just a thinner person with all the same baggage and insecurity.  And in books, you never see a heroine coming to that realization, ever.

In too many books with “fat” heroines, she usually does something stupid to fuck up her own life, and the reader is supposed to go, “Awww, it’s okay, sister, I feel you,” because she’s fat.  Like the situation with the roommates in Jemima J.  I remember reading that book and thinking, “Okay, Jemima, they’re not being rude to you because you’re fat… you come home, you go straight to your room, you avoid any contact with them because you’re so sure they’re hateful because they’re skinny and have social lives, and now that you’re getting skinny and ‘getting back at them’ I’m supposed to be pumping my fist and going, ‘Yeah, bitches, take that!’  No way in hell.  I’m not going to feel sorry for you because the only way you can have self confidence is by becoming what you think everyone wants you to be.”

Also, it seems you can’t have a book with a fat heroine without the skinny bitch trying to sabotage her, who she later has to get back at.  I’m sorry, but as a fat person, I can throw my own anecdotal evidence into the ring and say that I’ve never run into a skinny person who was out to destroy me just because I’m fat.  Actually, I’ve never run into anybody who was out to destroy me.  Is it possible that these skinny evil women in these books are not believable villains?  That perhaps *gasp* the real force the fat heroine needs to overcome is her own insecurity, her own belief that when she enters a room, everyone is talking about her weight, that no guy could ever possibly love her until her thighs no longer touch when standing up, that her sister deliberately picked yellow for her bridesmaids dresses in order to make her look fatter?

But no, those problems are never addressed, because the author wants to believe, and wants to make readers sympathetic to the belief, that fat women in our society are powerless little Cinderellas, waiting to be rescued from their fatness by a dreamy prince who will never, ever be tempted to look at the airbrushed perfection of a Playboy bunny, and that they’ve somehow won when that happens without losing weight.  I’m sorry, that’s just not the type of heroine I can root for.

This post has brought up a lot of really good points, Sarah, and it’s really timely.  I have a presentation for a local RWA group coming up about heroines, and I think I’ll put in a category about the fat heroine and all the pitfalls contained therein.

Re: “imperfect” heroes, C. E. Murphy’s Joanne Walker books have a romantic interest who’s described as a “superhero gone to seed.” Oh, until the third book when he abruptly turns out to be thinner than she thought, at which point I got all whiny. I liked his pot belly!

There was a book called Waking Beauty that came out a few years back, and it had a heroine who actually sounded unattractive at first (I forget, exactly…there was something about her face involved, as well as weight…), but then woke up gorgeous and had all that awareness of the social differences. She also had this romance aspect with a not-that-attractive video store clerk. The book’s by Elyse Friedman, and it was notable for a couple reasons, one of which was that it didn’t pull back punches or gloss over any of the emotions involved.

Isn’t Agnes in the Cruise/Bob Mayer latest Agnes & The Hit Man also a curvy cook?  But unlike Min, Agnes didn’t have any issues with her weight.  The only real mention (as I recall; I loaned my copy to my mom) is that the hero finds her shape lush & appealing.  Anyway, I had a mental image of Agnes as plus sized, but that was just what she was, not WHO she was.

Most of the time, I’m not fond of body issue stories (whether obesity or anorexia or anything between) because I want the problems to be bigger & deeper than that.  For me, coming of age stories & TV after-school specials can deal with looks & peer pressure & fashion magazine standards.  In the adult stories I read, I just prefer issues of a grander scale, and I don’t care where my heroine tips the scales.

In all honesty, I do want a hero who is tall, strong and lean (also smart, attentive and passionate).  I read romance for that fantasy.  I read comics’ biographies for the reality of life as a short & pasty man.

Katie MacAllister did one called “The Corset Diaries” which was sort of a reality show historical romance.  It was fun but eating wasn’t the focus of anything really.  But she did have some hysterical description from the heroine (who was happy to have some good sexin’ no matter what) who wanted to turn off the light because she didn’t want to be seen going “smooshy”.  And she was worried her boobs (all product of a size 18) would look funny going into her armpits (all boobs do this… it’s just a matter of time and gravity!).

The main focus though was on being a strong person.  Not becoming a different someone for somebody else.

There were a few others from her that mention that the woman is NOT model size but leave it up to the reader to assign actual physical persona.  Mostly though the focus becomes on the people themselves which is really more important than anything.

She DOES flip the other coin on the looks though.  She’s got her guys being average but decidedly what the heroine likes.  I think if most authors indicate that the man is normal but still nice (You can have nice abs and keep them under shirts… you can have a handsome guy without being movie star perfect… in fact some of the better looking men out there are not perfect and have more than a pock mark!).  As long as there is an indication that the HEROINE finds them panty wetting hot then that’s pretty much good for me.

Hi, Jody W! I’m with you. I like the gamma/beta males, and I like a guy who isn’t conventionally good-looking, too.

Jana said,

You can have all the fat women you want in a book or movie happily fucking away with no regard to their appearance, but that won’t actually make anyone feel good about their own bodies or lives if they didn’t already have that confidence to begin with.

It would be great if our confidence about our looks were completely separate from what society considers attractive, but I don’t know of any culture where it is.  I think the above scenario would make a huge difference.

I remember reading a Harlequin in the late 70s maybe early 80s, where the heroine was what was described as hugely fat ( probably a size 12 lol) , then she was in an accident and was in a coma and woke up to a beautifully thin and toned body. She probably caught her a greek cowboy billionaire too!

I think i fantasized about being in a coma till i was in my 20s and realized what being in a coma for an extended period of time REALLY did to ones body.

Now I’m in my 40s with bigger problems than my weight.. geeze gray hair, thinning eyebrows and eyelashes, saggy tits, cankles, you name it.  I need to do some body snatching to be thin and beautiful LOL.

Now, I might be a little biased because I work for the publisher that publishes this author, but Michele Ann Young has written two books: No Regrets and the upcoming The Lady Flees Her Lord. They are both regency romances, BUT the heroine in NR is plus sized, and the heroine in LFHL is average in all aspects of appearance. I think they are fabulous books and give a different type of heroine for that time period. They address a modern issue in a time where being thin and almost frail was considered a GOOD thing, and translates well into the modern controversies with models and actresses.

Great topic!

If you want to find fat heroes, look no further than sitcoms. Going as far back as Jackie Gleason the mismatch of beautiful wife with pot-bellied husband has been presented.

Slate has an article about the trend, though they’re a little more harsh about it than I would be.

http://www.slate.com/id/2111762/

this is why I write things as I see them, whether they’re in my head or in the real world.I also draw things, most times, as I see them as well. I’m overweight and have always been larger than every girl around me since I was born. Kids used to call me Ehren Fatten and sing it with the twilight zone theme tune.

:3 therefore, I enjoy writing about a woman who’s built like a valkyrie who likes chocolate a bit too much who’s able to kick ass and think on her feet a bit. But, as I said, I like to keep to what I see, be it inside my head or not, so if the character is thin, I write them thin, if the character is big, I write them big. I don’t have many thin characters, by the by. XD

now, to get paid for this head of mine… :: grin::

Back in the 80’s there was a Harlequin Temptation that featured an overweight Hero AND Heroine who meet at a fat farm! (I shit you not!) They fall in lust as they lose weight and then have to go back to their lives and relationships. About a year later, they meet again, back at the fat farm because they both gained the weight back! As they met, they looked into each other’s eyes and he said “Pizza” and she said “Ice Cream” and that was enough. Magic ensued.  I will think of the name anon.

ALSO do not forget Terry Pratchett! In GUARDS GUARDS Sam Vimes has an extremely sweet romance with Sybil Ramkin, a wealthy, large size aristocrat who is an awsome buttkicking heroine.

Also Agnes in MASKERADE is overweight and totally frustrated that her fabulous voice is unappreciated until the beautiful blonde stands in front of her and pretends to sing. It was a novel that showed a genuine understanding of how it feels to be fat and invisible. Mr P Rules!

I have to weigh in (haha) to agree AnimeJune and Esri Rose’s comments. I can’t think of a single regency or contemporary romance that has a fat alpha male, or even a hero with a bit of a gut. 

Jack Aubrey (from the Aubrey-Maturin series by Patrick O’Brien)was overweight, and a very believable hero, but those books are not romances.

And I don’t believe fat sitcom husbands are the same as romance heros.

Is this a double standard or am I missing something here?

AMEN, Tracy! At 5’6”, 209 lbs., I wore a size 18. I’ve lost nearly 20 lbs. and now wear a 16. (Have to lose weight for health reasons not for body image/feel good about myself reasons). Writers need to get a firm grip on body types. 6’4”, 170 does not well-muscled mantitty make. That’s skinny

LOL Silver! For sure. My Brother-in-law was 6’4”, 180 when my sister started dating him.  I called him “Ribs” because you could count them one by one!  He’s now 240 (bulked up and filled out as he matured)~much better!

I was 197 at my heaviest (I’m 5’3”) and wore a size 18.  I’ve lost 20 lbs (high blood pressure, not anymore!) and am a size 14 or 16 depending on who makes the clothes. I honestly lost the weight for health reasons. I was body conscious sometimes, but my hubby is so hot for me that I still had confidence. LOL

I think authors are best to stay away from exacts unless they know someone with the stats and that’s what they are going for.

As far as “imperfect” heroes.  I’d go for it.  My hubby is imperfect and I find him sexy as hell.  Really, I’d read a book about a guy with a pot belly. If the heroine found him sexy then we would too.  It’s all in perception.

But no, those problems are never addressed, because the author wants to believe, and wants to make readers sympathetic to the belief, that fat women in our society are powerless little Cinderellas, waiting to be rescued from their fatness by a dreamy prince who will never, ever be tempted to look at the airbrushed perfection of a Playboy bunny, and that they’ve somehow won when that happens without losing weight.  I’m sorry, that’s just not the type of heroine I can root for.

Jennifer, RIGHT ON! Your whole comment hit the nail on the head. I wish I could come to your presentation.

This whole conversation reminds me of the early days of bodice-rippers and virginal semi-rape because, like, you know, good girls can’t have consensual sex and like, you know, enjoy it! ARGH! Luckily, as our views about sex matured, so did our romances. Now if we could just get over the “heroines have to be dead sexy and heroes have to be hawt mancandy” attitude. Yes, there’s something to be said for “fantasy” but I prefer mine with a dose of reality. I’d like to think that the HEA could happen for me, or my best friend, or my daughter, or my hairdresser, or…the widow down the street. (I’ve been married 25 years so I don’t really count - but you know what I mean.)

If the weight issue is the main driving force of the book then I’m not buying. Period. Books about bigger sized women that are perplexed/bothered/bewildered by their weight bore me as much as the the dainty, fairy-like creature who is fading away from lack of appetite. If the heroine is whining then the book hits the wall.

If the hero is attracted to her and he’s lovin this female then she looks good enough for me and the author has done his/her job.  I don’t want to talk or read about calories and dress size when I’m in the middle of a fantasy/romance book.  This is suppose to be take-me-away-fiction. Not Prevention Magazine.

Thin, fat, tall, short, the description of the heroine is just that, it’s not suppose to be the story line. Is it? It isn’t in my TBR pile. I hope.

Fat hero? Is that big fat or sloppy fat? Sorry but I’ll take a double standard in my romance reading and the hell with politically correct.

For my heroine? Can she make the hero’s jaw drop? Then she’s just the right size.

The heroine of Theresa Medeiros’ The Bride And The Beast is fat, and the hero loves her that way.  Why are women supposed too look like concentration camp survivors? Personally, I tend to agree with the heroine of Leslie LaFoy’s Grin And Bear It: “Yeah, I could go on another diet. Yeah, I could join a health cluband get something resembling a shape other than roundish.  But it’s such a shallow thing to do.  I don’t enjoy deprivation or physical abuse.  If I did the diet and workout thing, it would only be because I want to look good to men.  And that is just way too pathetic.”  Of course, she doesn’t get any in the course of the book.  She meets two men who seem interested, but decides that one of them is so gorgeous that sex with him would be humiliating, and the other reminds her of vanilla pudding - sweet and bland.  I guess you could say her standards are too high. Spamword is Shall 61 as in ‘Shall 61 pounds stand between me and a fashionable figure?”

I thought Kelley Armstrong did a good job with Paige in Dime Store Magic and Industrial Magic. Paige is chubby, but still a kickbutt heroine.

One book that had a chubby main character and I loved was The Frog Prince by Jane Porter, but it’s chick lit and the previous example was Urban Fantasy. I don’t think I’ve ever read of a plus sized heroine in a straight up romance novel.

And, let me remind you, “fat” and “unattractive” are not the same thing. The only thing that makes a person “attractive” is if you are attracted to them. Looks can certainly help, but so can personality, humour, morals, personal taste, dreams and goals.

I mean - the cliche of the stick-thin gorgeous ICE QUEEN who’s the Hero’s Eeeeeevil Ex is a great example. She’s gorgeous (often more so than the heroine in contemporaries), but she’s not attractive to the hero.

I can think of several roly-poly (or at least not wash-board abbed) men I find attractive - true, most are comedians, but I find humour sexy. Ricky Gervais, Mark Addy, Seth Rogan…

Some are sexy on the basis of playing intelligent and dangerous men on televison - Robbie Coltrane on Cracker, Anthony Anderson on the Shield.

There’s Suzanne Brockmann’s Into the Night with Joan, who is a little overweight.  She’s angsty about it, but Mike does a great job of convincing her she’s hot and sexy and she doesn’t lose the weight to get her HEA.  In fact, she’s described later in the series as still Queen size, but hott.

There’s Laura Kinsale’s Seize the Fire, the Most Perfect Book of All Time, wherein Olympia is fat and Sherry loves her anyway.  He spends page and pages and pages saying how hot and sexy she is, and she doesn’t lose her weight either.

Those are the two I can think of.  Neither woman is really happy with her weight, but the heroes think they’re hot and they get their happy ending without losing the weight.  Ditto Min, in Bet Me as many people have already said.

Katie MacAllister did one called “The Corset Diaries” which was sort of a reality show historical romance.

Thank you!  I was trying like crazy to think of the name of this book and couldn’t!  The part I remember most is that when they put her in the corset, her breasts are all but entering the room about 5 minutes before she gets there and the hero is all agog.

There’s another book where the heroine is bigger and has a hard time believing that the movie star hero really wants her when he could have any twig-sized starlet he wanted.  It’s called Jude’s Law, by Lori Foster.  While it’s not one of my favorite Foster books (I tend to prefer her mixed-martial-arts fighter books), it’s very enjoyable.

Excerpted from the back cover:  “There’s only so much frustration a guy can handle before he gets a little nutty.  For Jude Jamison, his frustration has a name—May Price.  She’s everything the former Hollywood bad boy actor came to Stillbrook, Ohio, hoping to find:  open, honest, lovable, and full of those luscious curves you don’t find on stick-figure starlets—curves May doesn’t seem to appreciate in herself.  Every time Jude tries to get close to the skittish business woman, to take her in his arms, she thinks he’s joking.  Joking?  Joking does not involve lots of cold-shower therapy.”

Regardless of the implication on the back cover, the book is really much less to do about her weight and more about her learning to value herself more.  Granted her weight does come up, however, it’s because she has a hard time believing that Mr. Rich-and-Famous is really interested in her and not just toying with her because he’s stuck out in the middle of nowhere and he’s bored.  That said, I don’t recall thinking that May spent an inordinate amount of time whining about her weight.

Didn’t have time to peruse comments so far, so this may be a repeat:

NO REGRETS by Michelle Ann Young, Sourcebooks Casablanca

historical romance, i think it’s one of the nominees for favorite book of the year in a list whose name I forget

Suzann Ledbetter in her direction books has Hannah Garvey.  She starts out uncomfortable with her size and her age in the first book and by the time she and The Sheriff are engaged she’s comfortable within her skin and with being five years older than the sexy sheriff. She’s not angsty, she’s real.  Complaining about her hair color and seeing the micro-imperfections in herself no one else sees or pays attention to.  Something I think more of us do than are willing to admit to.

Don’t know whether they’re available in the US but an Australian author named Kerry Greenwood, who is plus-sized herself, has a series of mysteries featuring a zaftig heroine who used to be a professional CPA in suits and now owns a bakery and is happy with her size. First one is EARTHLY DELIGHTS, in which she gets a gorgeous Israeli detective boyfriend and so far has kept him :->

As for imperfect heroes, you can’t do better than Carla Kelly - most of her heroes are not ultra-confident Corinthian types. Even if you don’t want imperfect heroes, I’d recommend her books, which feature very believable characters.

[[Considering that I’ve never met a plus sized, “average,” or fat woman who isn’t obsessed or concerned or worried about her weight and society’s perceptions about her, I don’t know how realistic this heroine would be.]]

Pleased to meet you, Jana. I’m plus-sized (6’ tall, size 22), have incredibly great sex with my husband, wear the clothes I want to wear (get compliments all the time), and don’t obsess at all about weight. Could I lose a few pounds? Of course! Do I worry about it? Not at all.

Don’t get me started on numbers. I’m 6’ tall. 165 lbs is hotness on me.

I like my heroines offbeat for looks. The lady who is plain enough to pose as a man. The one who is too plump and curvy for her time. The one who is all austere angles in an era of curves. Conjoined twins.

My heroes are mostly ordinary. Middle-aged, a little paunchy from a desk job. Too short to be taken seriously. The guy who wears a beard to cover up an ugly scar on his jaw. Older, tired and limping from being shot.

I’d just like to see more bodies, period, in books. Make it fit the story.  But don’t whine. Whiny heroines—who are not clearly putting on an act—are a deal killer.

Horse16. Yep. that’s me.

Let’s get real about this.  Most (not all, but most) readers don’t want to encounter heroines beyond a size 12 any more than they want to encounter heroes and heroines beyond the age of 40.  Big-name authors might be able to get away with “bigger or older” pairings, but most writers will stick with young-and-gorgeous, just to be on the safe side.

The Western media’s pretty much got us by the ‘nads when it comes to standards of desirability.

Wow, Jennifer Armintrout! What you said, totally.

One thing (among many) that gets on my nerves in romances is the fascination with unusually tall men. It’s just a little too “me big man, you little woman” for me.

MASSIVE SPOILER ALERT!

The only book I can recall at the moment with an overweight hero is Carla Kelly’s Regency, Libby’s London Merchant.  Part of what made the book enjoyable was who got the girl—not the handsome, rakish Duke, but the bumbling and chubby country doctor.

Speaking for myself ...

When I was fat (5’1” and size 16), I majorly wanted to read about fat heroines.  The reason is obvious. 

Then nearly three years ago I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, suffered eye damage, high blood pressure, etc., and everything changed.  It took two years, but with a very serious life style change (diabetic diet and LOTS of exercise) I am now a size 4 or 6, and I have never felt or LOOKED better in my life.

I would NEVER NEVER NEVER go back to being a fat woman.  NEVER.  Not just because of health reasons, but ... let’s be honest here:  given the choice, how many of YOU would honestly chose to be a size 16 over a size 6? 

And frankly, “curvy” and “fat” are NOT interchangeable.  I am “curvy”—34 D.  But fat?  No way, no how. 

I don’t want to read about fat women now, and I surely don’t want to read about fat men.  It doesn’t feed my fantasy.  Sorry. 

If I’m going to invest a few (or many) hours losing myself in a romance, I’m not going to do it trying to “identify” as a fat heroine.  Sorry—but been there, done that, and that t-shirt is just way too big now.

Don’t have time to read all of this but I can mention a Regency where the hero is plump—Joan Aiken’s The Smile of a Stranger I think. It doesn’t have any sex but I really liked the characters. 

A book I hated—in fact I never got past the first few pages with the set-up that the heroine was told by her boss that she would never advance in the company because her uncontrolled weight was a sign of an uncontrolled mind or some such crap.  Instead of getting a lawyer and suing his butt off she went on some weight loss program like Jenny Craig and lost so much weight that she was won a cruise from the weight loss program.  At this point the book went sailing across the room and I have successfully eradicated the title and author’s name from my mind.

I’m not sure if I imposed my own body image on some of the books I’ve read, but I’m noticing a lot of what people are calling “plus size heroines” here are really just rounder, more realistic women, but not actually fat.

I also don’t like most “fat” romances because of the whineyness (I forget who posted it, but I agree with you, whoever you are!). When I moved to Japan, all of a sudden my size M was a size XXL, and people reacted accordingly—men in charge would make rude comments about diets, female coworkers made jokes about my size, etc. Did I feel like crap when they did that? Of course I did! But did it define my entire life in Japan? No! My life story is about my experiences, the people I meet and the things I do. My life story is not about coming to grips with my body.

You can argue that I had a healthy body image from being an M in America for so long, but reading a book after book about woman vs. her self image gets old. I certainly don’t mind her battling body issues while also doing something else, but if her weight defines her whole story, I don’t want to read it.

There was the “Living Large” series of anthologies featuring Donna Hill, Brenda Jackson and others.  The second book is “Big Girls Don’t Cry” and the third anthology is “A Whole Lotta Love.”  You’d have to find them used, though.  “A Cinderella Affair” by A.C. Arthur is also good.

rebyj said on…
07.26.08 at 12:34 PM |

I remember reading a Harlequin in the late 70s maybe early 80s, where the heroine was what was described as hugely fat ( probably a size 12 lol) , then she was in an accident and was in a coma and woke up to a beautifully thin and toned body. She probably caught her a greek cowboy billionaire too!

Barbara Cartland!  The heroine had just been forced into a marriage and for some reason after the ceremony and before the sexoring, she fell into a coma for about three years.  When she woke us she was gorgeous and toned—uh huh, just like Kay Hooper had a character in one of her Fear books wake up from a six month coma with a great manicure.  I really laughed at this one.

Also I think we may be getting a bit close to the self insertion discussion here.  I don’t care what size the heroine or the hero is as long as the book is well written. 

Seize the Fire is a favorite book but not because of the heroine’s size.  It’s the author’s skill.  And it might be used as evidence ito support Armintrout’s argument because the only pictures I have seen of the author show her as thin.

let’s be honest here:  given the choice, how many of YOU would honestly chose to be a size 16 over a size 6?

Holy projecting weight issues, Batman!  Maybe I’m out of the norm here, but I’m pretty sure that being fat is the result of my choice to eat a steady diet of cookies and candy.  I choose to be fat. 

I don’t see what your weight loss has to do with other people’s reading choices.  Don’t like romance with overweight heroines?  Fine.  But you seem to be saying, “Hey, all you have to do is get skinny and you won’t mind whether or not people like you are correctly portrayed in the books you like to read.”  Which is kind of weak, yo.

All I can think of, off the top of my head, are the fake plus-size heroines, especially during the Regency-era historicals. Eloisa James’s Josephine and Annabel from that quartet (uh, Pleasure for Pleasure and Kiss Me, Annabel! respectively) were both roundy women who didn’t look all that great in the empire-waist sack-dresses of the era, but who looked great in other clothes. I bet they were probably size 14 or so by today’s standards, but hourglass figures, so of course they were amazingly beautiful in the right clothing. Or no clothing.

(And no cellulite or thigh dimples, either. Nor body odor.)

That series also had an overweight hero . . . until he stopped drinking and of course turned out to have the perfect romance hero build under the beer gut. *sigh*

Edith Layton had an unattractive hero, can’t remember his name . . . he wasn’t fat, though. Rail-thin, with a horsey face, and the most attractive voice EVER, apparently.

let’s be honest here:  given the choice, how many of YOU would honestly chose to be a size 16 over a size 6?

And, uh, this has to do with “What books have you read with good plus-sized heroines?” how?

Well, there’s Miles Vorkosigan from Lois McMaster Bujold’s series - he’s not likely to win any beauty contests (the cover art on some of those books doesn’t help this impression in the slightest), but I have to say, he’s one of the “sexiest” heroes I’ve ever encountered in fiction.

Amen to that sister!!!

My heroes are mostly ordinary. Middle-aged, a little paunchy from a desk job. Too short to be taken seriously. The guy who wears a beard to cover up an ugly scar on his jaw. Older, tired and limping from being shot.

The older, tired and limping from being shot, describes my hubby perfectly. So does the paunchy part, although he is no longer middle aged- unless we are now living well over 100!! But I haven’t kicked him out of bed yet!!

I am around 5’3” and finally am under 200lbs. I think. I don’t do scales, even at the dr’s office. My figuring on that is this- first, it doesn’t sabatoge me when I do my exercise and eat right or binge every now and then. I wear a size 16/18 down from a 20. So as far as I am concerned that is good.

Secondly, I don’t have health problems because of my weight. I used to be a size 0-2, before I got preggers with my daughter almost 25 years ago. Then I got sick. Then we discovered I have intense allergies, ok, deadly, to most over the counter medicines. So I occassionally end up on steroids. The side effects suck, but they work.

I do not have high blood pressure, diabetic problems, cholesterol problems or any other myriad health problems that people automatically assume over weight (or obese or any other term you want), people have. When they ask me what meds I am on, I love the looks I get when I tell them Flintstone chewable vitamins and the occassional Tylenol. That’s it. I like busting stereotypes.

I did lose 35lbs (I was measuring then) by dropping soda, including diet soda, from my diet totally.

As for books, if anyone is still reading this, Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner is probably my favorite. She’s large, writes for a magazine, her ex makes the mistake of writing a magazine series about dating a plus sized woman (for a competitor) and she gets even. And she even gets her HEA with someone else. I laughed quite a bit when I read it. The sequel that just came out was quite good too, although a tear jerker. And she was still not a skinny minny.

let’s be honest here:  given the choice, how many of YOU would honestly chose to be a size 16 over a size 6?

by today’s standards, Marilyn Monroe would be around a size 12. She sure as hell had no problems getting men!!!

Even at my size 16, I never lack for finding someone to flirt with. I may be married, but I still get the offers. And I love to keep up my flirting skills. Hubby on the other hand, just rolls his eyes. Cause he knows who I am going home with. And he just isn’t the flirting kind.

Thank you Sarah and everyone for all the recs (and that awesome list).  I was the one who asked about the books.  It’s been fascinating to see the responses.

I’m a fat woman and working on the ever challenging issue of building my self-esteem in a society that is not terribly accepting of women with bodies as large as or larger than mine.  Having worked with women in my therapy practice who deal with body issues (and yes this really isn’t just an issue that fat women face), I know that having role models or positive images in media is really helpful.  That, along with my own desire to read fat-positive fiction, is what spurred my interest.

I second the issue about heroes who are not conventionally attractive.  Although is skinny and strong, my partner is a geek who definitely presents that way.  But I think he’s sexy as hell!

My word: lay46!

On the “double standard”:  I think some women find it easier than others to empathize with a plus-size heroine, whether that’s due to personal experience or just a different imagination.  But trying to find a less-than-hot hero attractive is harder—let’s face it, most romance readers are straight women, so it’s the ability to imagine being attracted to the male that is the main ingredient.

And what about M/M romance?  Do both men need to be hotties?

Me, I’d welcome a few more books with physically imperfect heroes, but that’s because I’m older (and wiser?  more cynical?) and prefer a bit more realism in my romance. 

FWIW, my daughter-in-law (to be, in six days!) is a gorgeous and confidant plus-size lady.  She doesn’t stress out about her weight, and most of the men I know (including my tall, skinny and handsome son!) find her very attractive.

I’m plus size, and I don’t see the “plus size girl gets the super mega hottie” storyline as realistic. In real life, we see far more hot women with “imperfect” men than hot men with “imperfect” women (though I know there are exceptions to every rule…yada yada yada).

I read a contemporary romance once in which the heroine constantly complained about her weight and considered herself fat. Then we find out she weighed 135 pounds. Shit.

Let me add ...

My husband is a handsome man, fit and strong ... but paraplegic.  Imperfect?  Yeah.  But damn, he’s hot!  He’s a frickin’ chick magnet, frankly, which I find gratifying ... though sometimes I do experience a twinge of jealousy. 

Let me add, too ... (after having read some of the comments following my earlier post) ...

... that I far prefer being a size 6 to a size 16.  I have been both.  This is MY preference. 

If you have worn both sizes and still chose the size 16, then ... you go, girl.

I prefer romance novels with average-looking heroes and heroines, though perhaps there aren’t very many of them. My favorite is

The Raven Prince

by Elizabeth Hoyt. Neither hero nor heroine is overweight, but the heroine is described as plain and mousy, and the hero has smallpox scars. I find characters with imperfections easier to relate to, and more interesting than those who personify today’s standards of beauty.

I don’t see what your weight loss has to do with other people’s reading choices.  Don’t like romance with overweight heroines?  Fine.  But you seem to be saying, “Hey, all you have to do is get skinny and you won’t mind whether or not people like you are correctly portrayed in the books you like to read.” Which is kind of weak, yo.

Fat heroines don’t feed MY particular fantasy—as I said in my earlier post. 

I’m not going to spend $8.00 putting myself in a fat-chick’s shoes.  I want a fantasy—so I’m taking it all the way, girlfriend!  I’m gonna be slim, beautiful, and witty!  And I’m gonna catch me a smart, good-hearted hottie!

Does the plus-size heroine feed YOUR fantasy?  I guess it does.  So go for it!  Read, write, and live the “plus size” romance. 

I wish you all the best at it!

If there is a huge market for fat heroines and paunchy heroes, it is my guess that publishers will fill that gap.  Time—and sales—will tell.

This may qualify as a “faux” plus-size heroine, but Catherine Anderson has a novella in the anthology Tall, Dark and Dangerous where the heroine Charlotte believes she is fat, but the hero thinks she has curves in all the right places.  It is one of my favorite stories ever.  I’ve read it countless times.

that I far prefer being a size 6 to a size 16.  I have been both.  This is MY preference.

That’s great, Wanda Sue, but I don’t know if you missed the point that we don’t care what size you are. We care what books you read.

One book I enjoyed with a “larger” woman was “The Perfect Wife” by Lynsay Sands.  It is about a couple with an arranged marriage, and while there is some angst from the Heroine about her weight (largely because she had been told all her life how huge she is), the hero likes her exactly how she is.  From the back cover”

“Paen Gerville longed for a lively, well-rounded woman, one whose plump breast would cushion his head after the lonely, harsh life of a solitary fighting know.  At first his wife-to-be promised no such delights—her form was unbending, her health apparently fragile as she fainted into his arms after their first kiss.  But one split bridal gown later, her assets were eye-poppingly apparent and Paen could only grin as he anticipated the surprises yet to come on his wedding night with The Perfect Wife”

I ran into a Harlequin Presents a couple of months ago, “The Sicilian’s Virgin Bride,” (which I kept reading as “The Sicilian Virgin’s Bride,” but that would pr’ly be a very different book…).  Anyway, the heroine had grown up as a very curvy, non-skinny girl surrounded by thin, obsessive model-types, and never considered herself to be attractive. She flees from her new husband during the wedding reception, and they don’t see each other again for something like six months, maybe a year.

I was assuming that she would have done the usual “Depressed Romantic Heroine Starvation Diet”.... except she ended up at a farm with a family who were enthusiastic about feeding her. So, she came back and weighed even more than when she’d left!

More importantly, the hero found her gorgeous just as she was—and when she realized that his problem wasn’t that he thought she was fat and unattractive, it was that he found her incredibly sexy and it was driving him nuts, she not only got a massive self-confidence boost, she proceeded to attack his personal complexes with a sledgehammer. And also with lingerie. ;-)

After growing up reading endless variations on heroines moping and starving and ending up even more pale and waiflike by the time the repentent hero comes knocking at their door, I thought it was great to see a heroine who gained weight, and a hero who thought she was insanely sexy just the way she was.

JaneDrew

I can’t think of many romances where the heroine was described as being plump or overweight. “Beauty And The Beast” by Teresa Medeiros, someone said, had the heroine being larger, but if I remember correctly [Spoiler!!]she ended up losing the weight for one reason or another somewhere near the end (and the hero being annoyed/upset by the change).

I personally would love to read more romance novels that had heroines with not-perfectly-proportional bodies. Most of my weight is centered quite firmly on my ass and hips. My sister’s pretty much the opposite. I want to read about a pear-shaped heroine with a fantastic Queen-tribute-worthy ass, or one who has skinny limbs and large breasts, or pretty much anything other than super thin and perfectly hourglass.

I was a 6 for all of three weeks in fifth grade. Then I grew hips and 3 more inches of leg, and was in an 8. I wore a 14 through high school and a 16 through college. And I defy anyone to tell me a 16 is fat on me.
Pictoral proof.
I’d rather be a 16 than a 26. But after 4 babies, I doubt even my skeleton is a size 6.

Ev, we haven’t sold the one with our limping shot gunslinger yet. But we’re hoping.

SonomaLass, I write a lot of m/m. My guys aren’t adonises. They come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them aren’t even well-hung. (And some of them are just plain scary in that department) I get tired of perfect bodies.

[[Does the plus-size heroine feed YOUR fantasy?  I guess it does.  So go for it!  Read, write, and live the “plus size” romance.]]

Why does it have to be plus size romance? Does the sexing get bigger? The books longer? The font thicker?

Hmmmmm

I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned it—I may have missed in the comments, but Susan Vaught’s BIG FAT MANIFESTO has the most irreverent heroine who is extremely “plus sized.” It’s YA, but it’s one of the best books I’ve read. It’s funny, sassy, yet has its serious side, too. Hard to explain. (And I call myself a writer. Sheesh)

The Amazon link—
http://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Manifesto-Susan-Vaught/dp/1599902060/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217134252&sr=1-11

Susan Vaught’s site:
http://susanvaught.com/

Jamie has the kind of sass and attitude I wish I’d had at her age. Maybe even now.

Sue Ann Jaffarian has a plus-size heroine, Odelia Grey, who’s also over 40. Though they are mysteries there is some romance. Her heroine is not whiny about her weight and is described as attractive and is pursued by various men. She even gets married in book 2, Thugs and Kisses.
http://www.sueannjaffarian.com/

I think WandaSue and Stephanie are onto something with the question, what do readers want in their romance?  Do they want fantasy?  Or do they want to see themselves?  Or some combination of the two?  Judging from e-publishers, there’s room for everything.  Judging from what New York puts out, there’s a preferred look at the moment that brings in most of the money.  But have you been to NYC?  All the girls there ARE thin and awesomely dressed.

by today’s standards, Marilyn Monroe would be around a size 12. She sure as hell had no problems getting men!!!

I was kind of disappointed to find out that that’s a myth:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1385806

Dress sizes have changed so much over time that people get confused about what equals what, I guess. And I remember getting steaming mad at Elizabeth Hurley commenting on how if she were as fat as Marilyn Monroe, she’d kill herself (paraphrased.) Ugh! No matter her dress size, that attitude is ridiculous, and totally unattractive.

Ah, The Raven Prince! I LOVED how the heroine was truly plain, and so was the hero—and no magical beautification took place during the story to change that, either! Except perhaps for the beautification of love and attraction, maybe. Love it.

Min annoyed the crap out of me in Bet Me, but that was a refreshing book in the heroine’s size department.

Okay, before I go to bed, just want to amend my Marilyn Monroe statement: Snopes says MM’s weight was in the range of 118-140, so at the 140 end, the size 12 seems reasonable (right?).

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp

Yay! And goodnight.

romantic suspense rather than straight romance, but I enjoyed Meg Cabot’s ‘Size Twelve is not Fat’ and ‘Size Fourteen is not Fat Either’ books with a plus-sized heroine (Heather Wells).

Plus of course Crusie’s ‘Bet Me’ which others have mentioned.

What Snopes says about Marilyn is:

“A woman of Marilyn’s height, at the extreme of Marilyn’s weight range (140lbs), would probably wear a size 12 dress today (which is the same dress size listed for Marilyn in the the book The Unabridged Marily. Perhaps at one time she did wear dresses that might have been considered size 16 or even 18 back in the 1950’s, but she almost certainly did not wear dresses equivalent to today’s size 16.”

They go on to note that a dress of hers was actioned in ‘94 and was found to be a British size 16, which is an American size 12.

Probably more relevant is the info on US standard clothing sizes from Wikpedia, which notes that current US sizes are SIX SIZES larger than the standards originally set from statistical data in the 40s and 50s.  In other words, size 6 in the old standard is what is now a size 0, and a size 12 in the 1950s would be a size 6 today.  British sizes are, on average 4 sizes larger.

So maybe Marilyn was a size 16 at some point (tho’ what I read was size 14), but that’s a size 10 today. For a point of reference (and because she called Marilyn fat): according to celebsrate.com Elizabeth Hurley wears a size 6—or a size 12 in Marilyn’s day. Drew Barrymore wears an 8 (i.e., the same as Marilyn’s 14).

Which makes my size 16/18…a reason to cut back on carbs.

And frankly, “curvy” and “fat” are NOT interchangeable.  I am “curvy”—34 D.  But fat?  No way, no how.

It’s interesting, because a couple of weeks ago someone I’d met for the first time at a conference described me as blonde and curvy in her blog…and then retracted it the next day, because she didn’t want people to think I was fat.  Curvy has become a euphemism for fat…which makes it hard to describe yourself when you’re a girl with a waist and breasts—curves, in fact—but not actually fat.

Everyone has a different idea of what fat is, and I agree with the people who’ve said that putting a number on it doesn’t help.  Saying someone weighing 200lbs is fat doesn’t help in the slightest—especially if you have no idea how tall that person is.  I was irritated when the Bridget Jones movies were made, that so much emphasis was put on her being overweight.  I read the books well before the films came out, and I never once got the idea she was fat.  If anything, looking at her recorded weights throughout the book, I thought she must be either fairly slim or very short.

Has anyone mentioned Size 12 Is Not Fat by Meg Cabot?  A title that had both me and my best friend in stitches, because in the UK, a size 12 is definitely not fat—it’s equivalent to a US 8.  The heroine there was a little too defensive about her weight for me to believe she was happy with it.

I’m not generally a fan of the plus-sized heroine, because quite often it just seems to be a shorthand for saying it’s okay to be fat.  Well…again this depends on your definition of fat, but hands up who actually thinks it’s a good idea?  Any doctor will tell you it’s unhealthy.  Unhealthy and sexy are really unmixy things.

I know Bet Me has been mentioned many times.  What was wonderful about Cal and Min’s relationship was what he gave her—acceptance of her size and shape.  Was she fat, or was she just bigger than her skinny sister?  Min hates her body and punishes it, but once she starts dressing for her figure and enjoying food, she’s a lot happier, and it’s Cal who facilitates this.

Jude Deveraux has an overweight heroine in Wishes, who is magically made thinner (literally: her fairy godmother does it) but it doesn’t make her happier.  The godmother is the one who is made to realise that thinness doesn’t equate happiness.  It’s also a historical—late C19th, I think—during which the fashionable shape for a woman was larger than today (but not to the degree of actual fatness!).  Historically speaking, a thin person couldn’t afford proper meals, worked off all their calories, or was consumptive.  Not sexy.

Is it possible that these skinny evil women in these books are not believable villains?

Oh yes.  Yes yes yes.  More lazy shorthand—thin and beautiful equals evil.  It actually reveals more about the psyche of the overweight character…and not in a nice way.  Have you noticed how it’s so often the heroine who trumpets that she’s a real shape who spouts this viewpoint?  Well, if she’s so happy about that, then why does she hate the thin person?

I agree with Cat: Thin = evil (if it’s from the plump perspective)and curves = fat (I think this comes from personal ads).
I can’t recall a single plus-size heroine who doesn’t lose the weight in the end. Nor can I recall a hero who wants more than a handful… How sad!
I like my protagonists to be flawed - it only adds to the tension in the story and the obstacles they overcome to HEA.
I found a list of books here:
http://www.romantictimes.com/books_themes.php?theme=126

I think WandaSue and Stephanie are onto something with the question, what do readers want in their romance?  Do they want fantasy?  Or do they want to see themselves?  Or some combination of the two?

Jessa Slade, that is exactly the point. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I do want a great big whopping escapist fantasy. BUT I find it easier to get carried away if I can really identify with the heroine. And in my case, this is way easier with a fat heroine than with a skinny one. Also, it always cheers me up to see the fat girl get the man. Which brings me to another thing - I agree with one the earlier posts (sorry, can’t find you name to quote you) who said that “as long as the heroine finds him knicker-dampening sexy, that is good enough for me.” If that means scars, pock marks and limping from being shot - bring it on

I am perfectly willing to spend a lot of money on books, and I fully expect the publishing industry to service me. Erm. I don’t quite mean that the way it sounds, but you know what I mean.

I was going to mention Terry Pratchett and Sibyl Ramkin Vimes as well, but someone beat me to it.  Pratchett’s done an excellent job creating a variety of protagonists with different body types, and making the reader care about them for who they are.

Many years ago I read a mystery called The Thin Woman in which the heroine was to inherit a fortune on the condition that she lose weight.  The gigolo she’d hired to pose as her boyfriend for a family gathering turned out to be a gourmet chef who helped get her on a healthy (but tasty and satisfying) weight loss plan.  I thought it was a pretty funny premise at the time, but it sounds as if it’s become somewhat of a cliche now.

(And FWIW, the heroine of my Work In Progress has a plus-sized roommate who gets laid far more often than she does.)

You know, I love books with good plus size heroines. Not heroines who lose weight through stress (Good in Bed—even if it doesn’t last), heroines who lose weight “for health”—(He loves Lucy—because the science is frankly contradictory on whether or not the actual weight loss is helpful, as opposed to eating habits and exercise) or women who bitch about their weight (plus size or not).

I just want a hero who loves the woman for who she is, whatever size. That’s why I liked Night Play so much, and even Bet Me, because the heroes loved their BBW women and the women finally realized that being a particular size means nothing—happiness is not a size. Confidence is not a size.

Cindy Myers “Learning Curves” is also a good one, as long as you don’t read her alternate ending, which is one of those “loses weight for health reasons” endings—god, I hate those. Can’t you just leave it with “he loves her no matter what” and be done with it?

By the way, lest publishers thing that only BBW are into BBW novels, it’s totally not true—I don’t really qualify, and I love the subgenre. I just get so sick of reading books (or talking to women) who obsess over food and weight. Haven’t we realized yet this is marketing to keep us unhappy and buying diet products?

By the way, if you’ve never seen the hilarious video on Yogurt, the wolmen’s diet food, you’ve missed out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffIo2VAi_qg

Meredith (who thinks women should channel all this crap about food and weight into something more useful—revolution, anyone?)

BET ME is one of my favourite romances, and I appreciated that Jennifer Crusie tried to leave out all mention of Min’s actual size- never mentioning how tall she is, or her exact weight. I read a comment of hers once where she said that she wanted people to come up with their own version of what “overweight” was and then impose it on Min, which I thought was very clever.

Except on my millionth re-read, I realized that when Min is at the dressmaker’s trying on the corset for her sister’s wedding, it mentions that her size 8 corset is way too small. But they strap her into it anyway, causing great discomfort. (They don’t go with this size corset in the end, obviously.)

This bothers me because if you can squeeze into a size 8 corset, even in discomfort, I don’t consider you to be overweight. It depends on the lacing in the back, obviously, but I highly doubt Min is bigger than a size 12 or 14. Which to me, is not nearly large enough to herald Min as an overweight-and-accepting-it heroine, but that’s just my own take on it.

I have a confession—I work near a church attended by a lot of African Americans.  When there is an event, usually a wedding, I love to watch the congregation arrive.  No one is model thin and a lot are quite overweight, but the style the ladies show is amazing.  Like big beautiful birds of paradise they come in on the arms of dapper men who seem very happy to be seen with them. 

I stand and watch,  muttering to a friend like Cinderella’s ugly stepsister—- WHERE do they get those clothes?  And the hats!  Turbans in jewel tones and lovely flat saucer hats with exotic trimmings. 

So where are the heroines with confidence and style equal to that I see in those ladies?  If not at the beginning, then at the end of the story?

Meredith (who thinks women should channel all this crap about food and weight into something more useful—revolution, anyone?)

Meredith, I think I love you. :)

Regarding my aforementioned Edith Layton odd-looking hero, I thought it was the Earl of Drummond (Drum) from The Conquest, but he seems to be described as “striking” in the book blurb, so who knows.

this has been an interesting discussion so far
I enjoy reading for escapism, but I also enjoy reading books with overweight women.  I’m Asian and a size 12/14.  Usually you’ll never find an Asian female character who is overweight.  I think I’m overweight, so I don’t care what everyone else thinks of me.  Please don’t try and argue with me here, but I do have a gut and I don’t find it flattering.  Sometimes reading that gorgeous men find size 18 women beautiful is comforting.  It relieves the little voice in my head that tells me that men will not find my body unattractive.  (Granted I’m married and my husband adores me, and plenty of men have told me they think I’m hot).  Sometimes, I want to live a fantasy and read about tiny, independent, feisty, genius women because I want to live out a fantasy.  I’ll take both.

Thanks for this topic!  I think most women obsess about their weight no matter what size they are.  My friend is a 4 and she’s always pitching this bone at her hip and calling it “fat.”  *rolling eyes*  I’ve had babies and have fluxuated between single-digit and double-digit sizes.  Although my self esteem isn’t tied to the scale, I can always relate to a heroine who feels self-conscious or less than perfect.

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned Bella Andre’s TAKE ME.  It features a real plus-sized woman, and it’s an erotic romance.

That’s great, Wanda Sue, but I don’t know if you missed the point that we don’t care what size you are. We care what books you read.

and obviously you missed my post:  I think a little deeper reading of my opinions would have given you the answer ... Scroll back up and read my posts in their entirety.  Perhaps it was too late at night for you to get the gist of them all.

Or read on ....

I spend my hard-earned money feeding my romance fantasy—and that doesn’t include a fat heroine with whom I CANNOT identify any longer. 

When I was a Size 16, there existed inside of me a very wistful and hopeful Size 6 ... but if anybody asked me, I’d deny it til I was blue with indignation.  I told myself—and anybody patient enough to care—that I was “happy” and “content” and “secure” being fat.  (Deep inside, I wasn’t). 

So I’d read the “Plus size” heroine romances to feed that sentiment, and searched high and low for a heroine with whom I could identify—and who could validate my fatness.  It fed the fantasy OF THAT TIME IN MY LIFE.  It made me feel secure that, even heavy, I could find and keep a hottie for a mate… though I knew too well, from working in a mostly male environment (US Navy), that the REALITY is something else entirely. 

(Fortunately, I am married to a great guy who never seemed to notice that I’d gained 50 pounds from the time we’d first begun dating.)

So ... the point:

Do we prefer to read romances that feed our fantasy (of being slim, trim, and with awesome clothes?) ... or that validate our “reality” (not so slim, not so fashion-based)? 

Pick your preference.

I’m sure there are enough writers out there to feed whatever floats your boat.