Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

All rights to Ms. Edwards’ previously published Signet books except the bits she didn’t write herself have reverted to the author.

There. Fixed that for them.

Signet: “And by ‘irreconcilable editorial differences’ we mean ‘Good god, woman, what were you THINKING?!’”

*bows* Glad to be of service.

The blog entry appears to cut off in the middle of a sentence.  Posting error, possibly?

Tonight, the ferrets drink champagne.

Is it odd that I’ve never read anything by Cassie Edwards?

Neither have her fans.

(Ok, that was unfair, and it’s unfortunate that a mutually beneficial relationship
between Edwards & Signet had to die of a self inflicted wound, but snark dies slowly)

Wow.  I’m shocked that Signet finally did sometihng because I thought they never would.  It’s about time. 

Raising a glass to ferrets. This is to you black-footed ferrets.

My thoughts are that that is a class act from Signet. Yes, I know the outrage in many of us wanted something fast and furious, but it looks like they have taken the time to do a thorough review, investigate the legal and moral implications, discuss the issue with the author, and give her the fairness that a long and mutually beneficial relationship has earned. The statement makes their stance on the matter clear, but doesn’t engage in demonising her (as I would hope a publisher who bears some responsibility for the mess wouldn’t).

So, the part of me that hopes that all authors receive a considered, just response to any accusations of wrong-doing is impressed.

And the part of me that was totally outraged back in January and still is? It’s feeling pretty damned satisfied with Signet, and waiting for statements from the other publishers.

I’m new to this whole thing (where have I BEEN?) but I admit that a tiny part of me feels vindicated - Cassie Edwards is one of the only authors I have ever not read all the way through. I have a tic that makes me finish a book even if it’s reeeeeaaaally bad because I’m crazily fascinated with how it will end - but it this case it was so incredibly awful that I felt the need to pretend I had never picked it up. I have no problem reading books with mantitty on the cover, or females in various states of undress, or both (in fact, no one at work even teases me anymore, since my total non-reaction makes it unfun), but I was actually embarrassed that someone might see name and judge me by it. I felt like yelling, “I have better taste, really!”. And I didn’t even know about the plagiarism.

Also (kind of related but not really), could we have some more stereotypes? Please? I just LOVE assumptions made about entire groups of people! We should have a contest to see how many times the word “savage” is used.

And I forgot to say, kudos (again) to the SBs and friends, for uncovering and researching the extent of the plagiarism.

I bow before the awesomeness of BitchPower.

I’d echo what Bron said.

Signet performed due diligence—and that took time considering the number of books involved. And once that was concluded, they did what I feel is the right thing.

As I writer and a reader, I’m satisfied with that. And grateful to the SBs for bringing the situation to light.

Well said, Bron.
A highly satisfactory conclusion.
Signet is to be commended.

I have to say I thought nothing would come of this. I thought that the author and Signet had ridden out the brief storm of publicity and planned to do nothing more about it.

Clearly, I was wrong, and I am relieved to be so. This has restored a bit of my faith in the honour of the industry.

Well done, Bitches.

Wow. Amazing news. Well done, Ladies.

Like others have said, I’m really impressed with the way Signet handled this. They certainly gave it the time and consideration such a serious situation deserves, and they definitely did the right thing. Now I just wonder what willl happen next for her. While I’ve never read one of her books, and even though she clearly did something very wrong, the whole thing just strikes me as sad and stupid. After all these books, and such a big readership, she loses it all because she can’t be bothered to change big hunks of other people’s writing? Way to throw your writing career away with both hands!

Echoing Bron as well.  I’m glad Signet took their time and reviewed the situation and made a decision based on what they found.  And of course, kudos to the SBs for bringing it to light and for not letting it go, even when there were plenty of individuals out there who didn’t see anything “wrong” with what Ms. Edwards was doing.

Yay, ferrets.  *g*

Wow. Incredibly impressed with Signet. Kudos to them and to the Bitches.

Hallefuckinglujah. 

Me, I’m raising a glass of champagne to all the Native Americans who will no longer have to deal with her racist books appropriating their culture and reducing them to the worst stereotypes prominently displayed on the shelves and promoted by a major publishing house.

Well done, Bitches.  Well done, Signet.  Now we wait for Dorchester and Kensington, right?

I don’t know you are all so happy. 

Mrs. Edwards and Signet going their seperate ways has nothing to do with what you did so you can stop gloating!

Unless you know the exact story you should keep your mouths shut.  If you post the wrong thing you will be opening yourself up to one heck of a slander lawsuit.

I’m very glad to see something come from this. I’m very, very glad to see the publishing industry make a definitive stand.

Thank you to all of you who managed to read for the research. I tried, and couldn’t.

Mrs. Edwards and Signet going their seperate ways has nothing to do with what you did so you can stop gloating!

Well, given that the AP journalist led the piece with: Romance writer Cassie Edwards and publisher Signet Books have decided to break up after allegations emerged in January that in she lifted passages in several of her books from other sources. I’d suspect that it has at least a little something to do with the alleged plagiarism.

I don’t know… just a suspicion. 

And who’s gloating?  It’s not as if the woman is being hung in effigy or anything.  It’s simply a case of being pleased that in this day and age where closing your eyes, plugging your ears, and shouting “lalalalalalala” is all too common in the hopes that a situation will go away, it’s refreshing to see a corporation stepping up, conducting a thorough, measured review, and opting to take a stance.  Period.

As I said, you don’t know what happened.  It had nothing to do with what these people did.  You only know what the AP printed, not the whole story.  LMAO

By celebrating you are making asses out of yourselves.  LMAO

Sam, you’re right. This decision by Signet has nothing to do with what anyone who posts here did.

It has everything to do with what Edwards did.

I wonder that certain types of people just can’t stop tossing around the lawsuit gambit. Even when they have the wrong type of lawsuit.

And when somebody I don’t know believes she can rudely tell me to keep my mouth shut, I’m just compelled to say more.

You’re right, we only know what AP said.  And AP said “after allegations emerged in January that in she lifted passages in several of her books from other sources”.  Just where, SAM, do you think those allegations arose?  If you re-read all the articles on the subject, you’ll know they arose here.

Personally, I never really thought it was making an ass of oneself to celebrate someone doing the right thing, but perhaps I was brought up with different values.

Please, Sam, enlighten us. Tell us the whole story as we have to assume by your posts you’re in the know.

Because obviously, the AP is such an unreliable source.

Rachel, I don’t think she’s tossed her writing career away. I think she’d tossed the casual reader she was picking up away, and those that hadn’t read her and no doubt a fair amount of change. But there is a certain type of fan that will stand by your twice as hard if they feel you’ve been a victim and I imagine (based on observations) that she has a fair number of those. At this point she could probably do all right vanity printing. She’s down and dented, but only out if she decides to be. Other authors have come back from such actions. And I don’t know what she looks like in the international market, with her rights reverting to her she may have income from translations.

But yea, snark put back in the snark box, I am also very encouraged to see Signet took things seriously and an outcome was reached.

Is it odd that I’ve never read anything by Cassie Edwards?

- Madd

Neither have her fans.

- Liz

Ha! This exchange made my day. And SAM, you’ve given my hope. Tell me that they dumped her because they realised her books were racist rubbish? I’d buy you a ferret.

I’m curious as to what this means in practical terms. As of Thursday, when I was at my local grocery store, her books were still for sale. Will they be left there to sell or will they be pulled?

Congrats SBs for some righteous work.

I think it’s to their credit that they took their time. It doesn’t look reactionary; it looks like they actually investigated the allegations and did it all proper-like. Good for Penguin. Class act. And bravo to the Bitchery for starting the ball rolling. I wonder if the other houses involved will take their cue from this?

“Signet has conducted an extensive review of all its Cassie Edwards novels”
Now I wonder why they did that - if “Mrs. Edwards and Signet going their seperate ways has nothing to do with what you did so you can stop gloating”

Good for NAL and good job SBs!

And on a personal note, as a lawyer, I am SICK to FREAKING DEATH of the IGNORAMUSES who throw around the “watch out for the lawsuit” threat.  Let me just say that in EIGHT YEARS of practice as a trial lawyer, licensed in THREE different states and several federal jurisdictions, and as someone who has won multiple verdicts in the millions of dollars range, I spent WAY MORE TIME counseling people to AVOID litigation than to sue.  As by far the majority of my fellow trial lawyers did.  So here, once and for all, to any armchair lawyers, rabid threat-makers, and all-around nincompoops: 

Defamation is the act of harming the reputation of another by making a FALSE statement to a third person.  (Libel is written defamation; slander is verbal defamation).  Therefore, TRUTH is an ABSOLUTE DEFENSE to a charge of defamation.

Get it??  TRUTH.  You can’t sue people for telling the TRUTH.  Well, maybe you can sue them if you find an attorney desperate enough to take a case like that (don’t count on it), but you won’t WIN. 

So maybe read through those passages in the books and the ferret article, among others, again, before you go slinging around the lawsuit threat.  In the meantime, I’ll dust off my First Amendment, because a big part of why I became a lawyer was to protect people from threatening bullies.

My first cynical reaction was to wonder which publisher would pick her up next.  Then I thought about it some more.  Her penguin books now have a major liability attached.  How could any publisher trust a manuscript she hands in to them to be free of plagiarism?  One publisher has dropped her in a rather public manner so no other house could claim they were not on notice.  Contract clause or not about it being her own work, it is the publisher who would end up paying to defend a law suit—or a settlement.

Oh, and THANK YOU, Ms Holliday.

Nora said:

“Sam, you’re right. This decision by Signet has nothing to do with what anyone who posts here did.

It has everything to do with what Edwards did. “

Brava! Exactly on point.

You’re welcome, although perhaps “all-around nincompoops” was a little harsh . . .

If you post the wrong thing you will be opening yourself up to one heck of a slander lawsuit

How many drinks is that worth?

A

s of Thursday, when I was at my local grocery store, her books were still for sale. Will they be left there to sell or will they be pulled?

I was curious about this same thing.  Could also depend which house published them, I imagine.

As for the actual parting of Signet and Edwards, I’m both glad and hopeful she invested enough along the way.

“And on a personal note, as a lawyer, I am SICK to FREAKING DEATH of the IGNORAMUSES who throw around the “watch out for the lawsuit” threat.”
~ pounds desk in delight~
Add my THANK YOU too, Ms. Holliday!

You’re welcome, although perhaps “all-around nincompoops” was a little harsh

But it was funny as hell.

As one of the humorless assbrains who thought celebrating was inappropriate when these allegations arose, I find myself applauding Signet’s response now.  It’s not about being happy to see an author’s career hit the skids.  It’s more about being satisfied that sometimes publishing companies do the right thing.

I’m not celebrating because I have a vendetta against Edwards.

I’m celebrating because this type of abuse MUST have consequences.

I realized that when an author friend published with a small house thought perhaps Edwards had the key to getting a big contract. Heck, the woman sold millions? Right?

This is not the message to be sent.

I am glad to see resolution.  Sometimes the process is slow and you think that is the way of the world now and ‘lo and behold all the “bitching” wasn’t for nothing and thanks to all the hard work and research of the Bitches and beyond you get the feeling of a little satisfaction.

I am definitely not gloating over this parting of ways, but it is what is right.

I’m also with Bron—I’m very glad Signet took the time to do a thorough investigation, and I’m glad they responded the way they did when it was concluded.  Ms. Edwards and Signet had a very beneficial relationship, and it’s a shame that it ended this way…but it’s even more of a shame that such an ending was necessary.

Mrs. Edwards and Signet going their seperate ways has nothing to do with what you did so you can stop gloating!

Really?  Because this site was where the plagarism allegations began.  The news article that SB Sarah linked to references the plagarism and strongly implies, in the first paragraph of the article, that it’s behind the breakup, and specifically references this site.

And I don’t see anyone here gloating; I see people expressing satisfaction that justice was served.

I realize fans of Ms. Edwards are upset; they should be.  If I were a fan of hers, I’d be upset too.  But this is not where the blame belongs.

Huzzah for ethics!

My thoughts are that that is a class act from Signet. ... [T]the part of me that hopes that all authors receive a considered, just response to any accusations of wrong-doing is impressed.
~Bron

I’ll dust off my First Amendment, because a big part of why I became a lawyer was to protect people from threatening bullies.
~Alesia Holliday

*Stands up and applauds the AWESOME of the Bitchery*

*Stands up and applauds the SUPER-AWESOME of the Smart Bitches we exposed this in the first place*

If Edwards decides to go the vanity press route, she’ll have to identify and rewrite all of the passages that infringe on works that are still under copyright: “Laughing Boy”, the ferret stuff, and much more.

She can’t just have someone retype her work and go for it, because fron her on it’s “willful infringement” and that gets very expensive.

western48 ... Off by a dozen years!

Signet/Penguin would not have done this if it weren’t important for THEM, if they didn’t see that their best interests are served by not continuing to knowingly endorse authors who a) violate the basic ethical standards of authorship, b) violate the terms of a contract demanding original work, and c) expose the publisher to copyright infringement litigation.  It was the smart thing, it was the right thing, and hopefully it will send a message that intellectual honesty IS important in a professional publishing environment.

A romance novel Web site called Smart B———, Trashy Books posted excerpts in January from Edwards’ novels and placed them alongside similar passages from reference books and magazines.

This is from the Yahoo news link—I just love that they can’t use the word Bitches!

Well said, Nora and others.  Signet performed due diligence, which they owe to anyone whose made them as much money as Ms. Edwards probably has.  Ultimately, no one “did” this to her—she did this to herself.  But obviously she was getting away with it until SOMEONE pointed it out, and until there was enough outrage to make it a bigger issue than the money her books made.

I’m one of those cynics who thought nothing would come of this, and I’m very glad to have been wrong.  As a college professor who spends a lot of time trying to teach students about plagiariam (bad!) and ethical use of source material (good!), it’s great to have examples that those same values DO apply in the real world (a.k.a. life after college).  Huzzah!

If you post the wrong thing you will be opening yourself up to one heck of a slander lawsuit.

Seeing as slander applies to speech, I think we’re all off the hook here.

Signet has handled this with class and professionalism.
The SBs have been tireless in bringing the facts to light and pursuing this story.
And now there will be a fewer racist, stereotypical novels
out there on the bookshelves.
Talk about a happily-ever-after! I think even the ferrets are thrilled.
Cheers to the SBs and to Signet!

Brava!  Applause to the whistle-blowers for sticking to their guns, and applause to Signet for doing the right thing in the right way. 

I’m glad to see the squeaky wheel actually got greased - there’s hope for the future, after all.  And thanks, Alesia, for triggering the giggles with the word ‘nincompoop’!  :D

story56 - srsly, this thing is causing me some alarm.

We all should be proud (especially the people who did the actual reading and comparing) of having a part in this. But justice won’t be fully served until the royalties Edwards earned are parceled out to the people whose published writing she stole. And that may never happen. Who speaks for the now-dead American Indians whose words she pretended were her own, that are no longer under copyright protection? How vile to supposedly champion a people while stealing from it.

If Edwards wants to reconstruct her career, she can start writing books using her own words for a change, and not someone else’s.

Or she can retreat into whining and self-justification among a small coterie of largely incoherent fans who themselves are dishonest and who thus feel they should support the dishonesty of others. Because I cannot think of any other reason to support a liar and a thief than fellow feeling.

Oh, maybe out of pity. But why pity the thief, and not the victim?

Funny how SAM vanished, there ...

Anyway, good for Signet!  \o/

SonomaLass, yahoo might not have wanted to print it, but I was especially amused to find the following in CBC’s article:

In January, a romance novel website, smartbitchestrashybooks.com, posted excerpts from the Illinois-based writer’s works next to similar passages from reference books and magazines.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/books/story/2008/04/19/edwards-romance-signet.html

Over at DA, Robin’s posted a link to thank the Penguin (Signet) people for being so well, appropriate.  So I sent off a thank you note, because I couldn’t possibly boycott Penguin—I’d miss the new LaNora hardbound coming out in July!  Now I don’t have to feel guilty for continuing to buy a bunch of books from the Penguin imprint.

I am glad the publisher reacted as it did.  You are all right in that just dropping her in a reactionary way would have left a lot of ‘she didn’t deserve this’ from her fans (not that that isn’t happening) and this way, it seems that she must have truly been wrong after all. 

Sam (a different one, I swear:))

What I know and who I am is none of your business.  I’m just saying that you don’t know what really happened.  Just because the AP printed something doesn’t mean it’s 100% true.

No, Mrs. Edwards’ books will not be pulled and she will continue writing and her books will be in the stores.

You guys are the ones who think they know everything.  Find out the truth on your own.

I was waiting to see how long it would take for you people to start celebrating.  I thought just maybe you had matured a little.  I guess not. 

I have much more important things to do than to argue with a bunch of people who have to go around hurting others just so they can feel good about themselves.

And, Nora Roberts you are the biggest bitch in the industry.  You were one of my favorite authors many years ago.  Thank God I found more interesting authors to read.  You are no better than anyone else so get your nose out of the air and quit acting like everyone is supposed to bow down to you.

As I said before, what goes around comes around.

SAM, are you Cassie Edwards???  Or just a deluded fan??  Your comments have been bringing the lulz today.

Good for Signet to do the honorable thing and also taking the time to assess the situation fully.  Wonder what her other publishers will end up doing…

“And, Nora Roberts you are the biggest bitch in the industry.”

Takes one to know one, darlin’. Classless people have no rights to name calling.

~And, Nora Roberts you are the biggest bitch in the industry~

Why, thank you, dear.

~Classless people have no rights to name calling.~

Let her have her moment. She’s feeling sad and mad, I expect, and there’s nothing to do but throw stones.

Another BRAVA to Nora for her successful back-hand. (Tennis term, I think.)

SAM, when you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you.

The Smart Bitches supplied evidence that Cassie Edwards is a plagiarist. Because they did so, they were able to convince other people of the truth of their claim.

You come here and claim we don’t know what we’re talking about—but then you don’t supply any evidence to support your claim. Of course you aren’t convincing anyone of anything. Your argument is empty.

As to all your cheap shots, you’re certainly coming across as hilariously stupid—have you noticed this website is hosted by the smart BITCHES? Calling Ms. Roberts the biggest bitch in the industry on this site is one heck of a compliment!

Thanks for the laughs, Troll.

No, Mrs. Edwards’ books will not be pulled

No, they’ll just quietly go out of print.  We’re all entitled to our own opinions; I don’t mind debate, but only when discussion is possible.  I don’t believe in engaging people who hold didactic stances, and I don’t believe in pointless name-calling, so I’ll leave it with this: “I know something that you don’t” carries no weight in a discussion.  None.

And now I feel compelled to add that I’d never read Nora Roberts before coming to this website, but after reading the comments she’s posted (yes, I have gone through the archives; is it wrong to stalk a website?), she’s leapt to the top of my “Must Read” list.  I can only hope to express myself someday with half as much class.

~And, Nora Roberts you are the biggest bitch in the industry~

Why, thank you, dear.

Hee!  I was just thinking, actually, what a compliment that was.  (But then, I’m fond of the “bitch” label.)

Wow, sour grapes, anyone?  Sheesh!

And I like bowing down to the biggest bitch in the industry.  ;)

No, they’ll just quietly go out of print.

Er…the Signet titles, I meant.  I didn’t mean to imply that she’d never be published again.

“Let her have her moment. She’s feeling sad and mad, I expect, and there’s nothing to do but throw stones.”

True, but calling one a “bitch” derogatorily is unncessary in any forum.

True, but calling one a “bitch” derogatorily is unncessary in any forum.”

Scratch “unnecessary.” Make that “uncouth” of SAM the writer, and childish.

~True, but calling one a “bitch” derogatorily is unncessary in any forum. ~

Yes, but added to her empty neener-neerer style it only succeeds in making her look petty and foolish. I’d rather be a bitch than an ass.

Tell her, Nora! I like the way you think.

You guys are the ones who think they know everything.  Find out the truth on your own.

Ummm. . .  That sort of is what happened.  I mean, I’ve only read a page and a half of Cassie Edward’s work, and half of it turned out to be an extended transcription from Land of the Spotted Eagle by Luther Standing Bear.  That’s truth, I found it on my own, after about fifteen minutes work.  It probably took Signet several months just to accurately source all of Edwards’ novels.

I guess I’m not reading these comments with the same mindset you are, SAM.  I don’t see celebration over an author’s publishing base being reduced, I see satisfaction that a publisher, after they performed their own research, acted on the results of that research.

SAM, imagine at your work putting in hours of your own research and creativity to find a unique way to perform your job to the best of your ability.  Then, one of your coworkers that happened to see your work swoops in and uses the unique way you devised, that you worked so hard to create, in their own work, exactly as you created it, and presents it as their own creativity and accomplishment, to take credit for what you actually did.  Wouldn’t you be steamed?  Would you just expect a friend who found out about this injustice to you to let it slide, or to stand up for you?  This is no different.  There are some of the passages marked as plagiarism that I think fall into a gray area, but many, many more that are obviously lifted directly from their source.  Ms. Edwards took the hard work of other authors and sold them as her own.  Essentially, she took the unique way they devised and took credit for it.  If it happened to you, personally, you would have a very different opinion on it, I think.

And, finally, if you want to be taken seriously, don’t slam other people.  Nora Roberts has been very truthful, very controlled, and very eloquent in stating her views on this matter.  She has stopped many instances where personal attacks by other posters have begun, and returned the focus back on the actions, not on the individual. 

Many authors have stated their viewpoint on this whole affair on this website and many others.  Singling her out and attacking her for stating truth makes you look bad, and pretty much guarantees that no one will take any statement, opinion, or fact that you wish to convey seriously.  You will only be labeled “troll” and ignored.

Just my humble view…
Sherb (returning back to lurkdom)

shot62 heh heh Yeah, that was my shot at making myself understood.

Nora Roberts said ...

I’d rather be a bitch than an ass.

**snort**  Right with you there, Nora!

Now I have to wipe the very nice merlot off the screen…

And SAM, you’ve given m[e] hope. Tell me that they dumped her because they realised her books were racist rubbish? I’d buy you a ferret.
~Arethusa

Oh no!  Don’t do that to the poor little ferret!  LOLOL

*smile*

And well played Nora.  You are a class act.  If you weren’t already my favorite author, you would be now.

I’ll put my hand up and say I was one of the cynical ones too. I didn’t think Signet would do anything and I’m very happy to be proved wrong.

Now, on a related note, I wonder if this means publishers are going to be a little more diligent in the future? I know that trying to ferret out (ha ha) every possible hint of plagiarism from a 100K book is a non-trivial task, but I’m looking at the other side of the coin. There are authors out there who do take the time to add footnotes and references to their books but then lament that they are left out of the final copy. An easy way for publishers to keep themselves (and their authors) in the clear would be to make sure that, from now on, such references are kept IN the books. I wonder if any of the publishers has taken that extra step and seen this as something they can, and should, do…?

Seriously, Nora, I wanna be like you when I grow up. Well done!

As for SAM, I think she should be working on salvaging her career (or the career of her idol) rather than making things worse. Trolling and name-calling is just childish and petty.

(This is a bit long…)

SAM, I’ve pondered for an hour or two about whether I’d respond to your comments or not, but I decided that I wanted to explain to you, and any other Edwards fans reading, why I described myself as ‘outraged’ and therefore why I am satisfied with Signet’s decision. This is my opinion and my perspective, and may not reflect the opinions of others here.

I don’t know Ms Edwards. I picture her in my mind as a naïve woman who works hard for her readers, who believes she’s doing the right thing for a culture she loves, but who lives and writes in a kind of fantasy world that revels in happy pictures and ignores anything that challenges that fantasy. It’s the only way I can make any sense of this; if I had to write her as a character in a novel, that’s how I’d have to do it.

So, why was I angry, and why am I satisfied now by Signet’s response? Because we all have to be held accountable for our actions. An author who sells manuscripts to publishers, who creates a ‘brand’ that relies heavily on the depiction of a culture, and on ‘meticulous’ research about that culture, who earns millions of dollars from sales of her books - any author who does that has a responsibility to their readers, the industry, the culture they are depicting, and the authors of the research they are using.

I don’t hate Edwards or wish her ill; but, based on the evidence of the extent of the plagiarism, I do hold Edwards accountable for her naïveté, and for failing to educate herself enough about appropriate research and writing methods, and therefore failing as an author to act ethically and professionally.

I also hold her publishers at least in part responsible. Signet’s initial response came across to me as ‘they’re only romance books, so who cares?’ I wondered at the time what their response might have been if Edwards wrote crime novels, instead of romance. I wondered whether the editing process might have picked up the significant inconsistencies in writing style between Edwards’ own words and the plagiarised passages, if the publishers had been more concerned with quality than with sales.

Signet have now acted ethically, after due process in which I presume the author had opportunity to present her case. I am not gleeful, or celebrating, or joyous about that, but I am satisfied with that outcome.

If Sam is the Samantha who was so distraught when the (ahem) alleged plagiarism was discovered, then I do sympathize with you.  Finding out that people we admire have feet of clay (sometimes up to their knees) is hard. 

But looking at it in an adult way, Ms. Edwards also publishes with 2 other companies that appear not to give a flying frit about “borrowing.”  So her books will still be available.  Maybe after this, she’ll even, I dunno, paraphrase her research.  Everybody is human.  Everybody makes mistakes.  Not learning from your mistakes is unforgivable.  So hopefully Cassie will learn from hers.

As for your mistakes, attacking Nora Roberts is, trust me on this, always a mistake.

Nora,

I have the perfect t-shirt for you! I picked it up one day a few years ago at the local mall and swore I would wear it to work some day. (I’m a supervisor for a grocery chain for both deli’s and bakeries.) It says:

I am not a bitch. I’m The Bitch or Ms. Bitch to you!

Dude, go off to the in-laws for dinner and even more crap flies?

SAM of the all caps, wow.  Look, it’s been spelled out both eloquently and bluntly, in words large and small and still, you don’t seem to get it.

The material is there for the perusing.  There is more than enough evidence to support the notion that Ms. Edwards took words that were not her own and passed them off as her own, thus violating not only a basic tenet of most publishing contracts, but the trust between author and reader.  More than one respected news source has treated this situation with due seriousness as has at least one of the publishers that sold Ms. Edwards’ work.  That’s more than enough “proof” for me than someone with unsubstantiated claims of knowing “the truth.”

If you don’t give a rat’s patoot about having your trust violated, then that’s your prerogative, but do not presume to tell me that I have to buy into that crap.  I work too hard at what I do to take that trust, either as a reader or a writer lightly.

Okay, sorry bitches, probably unnecessary ranting, but I had to get that off my chest.

Count me among those who are genuinely pleased and impressed by the professionalism demonstrated by Signet in this mess. I’m really glad they reviewed the material, etc.

And I’m not remotely gleeful that Edwards’s decades of plagiarism (not to mention her blatant-but-apparently-well-intentioned racism) have actually had real-world consequences. Nope. Not gleeful at all. Not even a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. There’s no little voice snickering the back of my head. (And if I WERE gleeful—which I’m not, of course—I would still feel a *little* bad for Edwards’s fans and for Edwards herself, if she really didn’t know that what she was doing was wrong, and then I would feel bad for feeling gleeful.)

As for the other issue here? La Nora PWNS, as usual. :D

I too am glad that Signet (against my expectations) has done the right thing.  Although the Christian Science Monitor piece says she still has a two-book contract.

Before you people go off on the word “Savage,” remember it’s my mother’s maiden name.

The moles and I are now going down to the local tavern to buy drinks for every black-footed ferret in the joint.  And if we have any money left, we’re going to buy Nora her own wolverine.

(yes, I have gone through the archives; is it wrong to stalk a website?)

If it’s wrong, I don’t wanna be right :)

And let me throw my pennies in with the “satisfied” group. Signet’s statement was clear, polite, and non-accusatory.  Such a nice change from the petulance echoing through many PR offices these days.

I don’t really need to weigh in on the whole SAM comment, but I feel I must or I might combust…

I started reading this thread this morning and added my 2 cents - I came back this evening to finish the thread and I read Nora Roberts “is the biggest bitch in the industry.”  I gasped out loud and my husband asked what I was reading so I read it to him.  “Wow,” he said.  Wow sort of covers it.  The wow, Nora, is how you handled it.  To be singled out in this mess, yet again, and to have such class - not blowin’ smoke - just sayin’....you are lovely.

Peace.

For the curious, I know of at least one bookstore that pulled Edwards’ novels off the shelf and returned them– a friend of mine was the one who got to rip them in half so they couldn’t legally be sold.

SAM said…

What I know and who I am is none of your business.  I’m just saying that you don’t know what really happened.  Just because the AP printed something doesn’t mean it’s 100% true.

Well on one level I almost admire Sarah Ann Mitchell for her loyalty.  Blind and misplaced and most likely codependent it may be, but still… it’s loyalty.

However, her acting out in denial of an avalanche of evidence is just childish, pitiful and sad.  Mostly sad. I certainly don’t believe everything I read in the AP or any other news agency. Heck, I don’t believe MOST things I read in the media,  but in this case I don’t need to.

I’m not celebrating CE’s downfall. I am sad it ever happened at all. But I guess I do take satisfaction that there is a certain element of justice taking place.  It may not be enough or it may be too much, depending on your POV. But at least there is some element of ‘making it right’ taking place. Whether it was done out of laziness,  ignorance or blatant disregard for honest writing, what CE did was flat-out wrong. No excuses. There need to be consequences for her actions. 

While I have never been an admirer of CE’s work, obviously she’s had a loyal following of readers for all these years. They have a right to be disappointed.  However, it was Cassie Edwards herself who disappointed them—not the SBs or any of the scores of others who were equally outraged by CE’s outright plagiarism.  SAM and her pals would probably get a more sympathetic response if they acknowledged that there were flagrant wrongs committed.  SAM could still be disappointed that loyalty and trust had been violated, and yet love Cassie anyway. She and her pals are victims in this too.  But instead, she’d rather act out.  I have no intention of wasting my energy trying to reason with someone who can’t/won’t get it.  I’ll just pity her and move on.

I used to work in a crime lab.  Some 15+ years after it took place, I still remember what one woman said after her gang banger grandson had been gunned down outside his high school in a fight with a rival drug dealer.  He had been leader of a particularly violent gang of drug runners, robbers and car-jackers who often randomly assaulted people on the street just for sport. He led a short but quite nasty life.  This obviously grieving woman showed great dignity when facing a very intrusive pack of media who essentially said he deserved what he got.  She said,  “I know he wasn’t a good boy, but he was a good grandson.”  It acknowledged her pain and love for her grandson without discounting the crimes that had been committed, or the persons he had harmed. She didn’t blame others for her grandson’s actions either. She accepted him for what he was to her, and loved him in spite of his vile behavior.

Sarah Ann, you might consider how you respond in the future.  Start by saying something like, “I know Cassie Edwards was wrong in what she did. But I loved those books, and I still love her.”  You’re allowed. It comes across much better than name-calling and tantrums and ignorant, baseless threats.

Justice is necessary, but not always pleasant. There are no winners here, and no one is celebrating CE’s downfall.  It’s tragic that so many people were harmed by her actions.  Signet did the right thing, surprisingly enough. Good on them. 

Diane

In my own small way, I “celebrated” this news by pointing out to the owner of the little UBS in my neighborhood about “Savage-gate”, after noticing a number of her “works” on the shelf.

While I continued to browse, he googled at his computer and I could hear him alternately guffawing & growling in indignation/disbelief. By the time I got to the counter to pay for my books, he had a box of her books by the front door, heading for the trash! He also had a few succinct words for authors who plagarize another’s work, and said that he would be refusing any of her books in the future.

Bitches RULE! ;p

— Bonz

“data48” ... goes to show you can’t fight the data!

C’mon people, SAM’s obviously a troll. There’s only two ways to deal with a troll: ignore them, or make fun of them. But for Crom’s sake, don’t treat them seriously! That’s like feeding spinach to Popeye.

SAM’s list of trollsign is impressive in its triteness:

Mrs. Edwards and Signet going their seperate ways has nothing to do with what you did so you can stop gloating!
Unless you know the exact story you should keep your mouths shut.  If you post the wrong thing you will be opening yourself up to one heck of a slander lawsuit.

Whining? Check.
Accusations of ignorance? Check.
Threats of lawsuit? Check.

As I said, you don’t know what happened.  It had nothing to do with what these people did.  You only know what the AP printed, not the whole story.  LMAO
By celebrating you are making asses out of yourselves.  LMAO

Repeated accusations of ignorance? Check.
Implication that troll knows something secret, but won’t say what it is? Check.
Utterly ludicrous accusations that opponents look foolish? Check.

What I know and who I am is none of your business….
You guys are the ones who think they know everything….I thought just maybe you had matured a little.  I guess not.

Repeated “I have a secret” blustering? Check.
“You’re so immature!” third-grade-girl-level namecalling? Check.

I have much more important things to do than to argue with a bunch of people who have to go around hurting others just so they can feel good about themselves.

And the big winnah! “I’m gonna take my toys and go away!” Sadly, they never really do, but it’s the big clue that they’re getting really upset that everyone thinks they’re an idiot.

SAM, love, if you’re going to be a troll, at least be an entertaining and original troll. This is real noob-quality stuff.

Sarah Ann, you might consider how you respond in the future.  Start by saying something like, “I know Cassie Edwards was wrong in what she did. But I loved those books, and I still love her.” You’re allowed. It comes across much better than name-calling and tantrums and ignorant, baseless threats.

Amen. I rarely comment on blogs because I’ve already been sent to troll land (as if I care a rat’s…), but when SAM called Nora a bitch in utter nastiness, “them’s fightin’ words,” in my opinon.

Pardon my tantrum after 3 tunis.

It’s funny how her stupidity ruined her writing career.  If it had been one book, she could maybe have hidden for a little while, but a novelist with 100 books cannot hide long enough to try to rejuvenate that writing career.

Ferrets, schmerrets, I’m drinking champagne (or something close to it) tonight.

No, I’m not Mrs. Edwards.  I don’t know her but I do read her books and I enjoy them.

I’ve been coming to this site for the past several years.  There’s just never been anything I wanted to reply to until this.

I’m sorry if you don’t like my opinion but I have as much right to state it as anyone else.  At least I don’t set out to ruin someone’s career and then gloat about it.

Yes, you found information, investigated it, and provided all the information on your website, the AP, and everywhere else. 

The proper thing to have done was to first bring it to the attention of the publisher and Mrs. Edwards and allowed them to make a statement to you about the allegations.

You didn’t give Signet a chance to find out what was going on before the press was all over it.  Could you imagine what it was like for Mrs. Edwards when she answered the phone and was suddenly being questioned by the AP and not even know what was going on?

As for saying how I feel about Ms. Roberts…I’m not apologizing.  I said how I feel.  She’s had her nose in this since day one.  I didn’t see any other authors involving themselves or making statements to the AP.

The proper thing would have been for Ms. Roberts to have said, “No Comment”. 

Did anyone attend Bertrice Small’s workshop in Pittsburgh?   

Did she bring up Mrs. Edwards’ name? 

No, she didn’t.  She’s wouldn’t stoop so low as to attack a fellow author or anyone else publicly.

This is all I have to say on this matter.  It’s a waste of time. 

If there is one person here who has never in your entire life done anything wrong I’ll be happy to hand you the first stone to cast.

The proper thing to have done was to first bring it to the attention of the publisher and Mrs. Edwards and allowed them to make a statement to you about the allegations.

No. The books are all over the damned continent. Why should we allow the publisher and author to keep all that blatant plagiarism hush-hush? Readers have a right to know they’ve been swindled, and the press gets the word out most efficiently. If Ms. Edwards didn’t want people asking her about plagiarism, then she shouldn’t have plagiarized.

As for saying how I feel about Ms. Roberts…I’m not apologizing.  I said how I feel.  She’s had her nose in this since day one.

And I applaud her resoundingly for it.

The proper thing to have done was to first bring it to the attention of the publisher and Mrs. Edwards and allowed them to make a statement to you about the allegations.

SAM, I don’t agree with you on this, and I’ll tell you my reasons why. As soon as an author publishes a book, its contents are out there for public review, critique, discussion and debate. That’s what publication is about. It’s not sharing a book with friends, it’s putting your work out in the public, to let it stand (or fall) on the quality of the writing and story-telling, and its consequent appeal to the book-buying public. The moment an author signs off on the final proofs, they should be accepting responsibility for their work, and to be prepared for all the comments, positive and negative, that members of the industry, the media, and the reading public might make about that book. If an author makes claims about a book, then they establish an implicit contract of trust with the reader and the reading public, and they should be able to demonstrate the soundness of those claims.

The plagiarism issues identified in Mrs Edwards’ books were not a minor matter, or an isolated matter. It’s not a case of a small mistake or error of fact. Her actions have had a significant negative impact on herself, her readers, her publishers, and the broader romance genre. In publishing her books, Mrs Edwards has made her actions public, and therefore open to public scrutiny and discussion.

Publishing is a tough and a scary world for authors. I’m currently doing the final read-through on the proofs of my first novel. When I send that off tomorrow, I have to accept responsibility for my actions and my decisions as an author. Once my work is published, my readers and the reading community have a right to comment on the book, discuss, debate, criticize, or praise it, to ask questions, and to do it publicly. Mrs Edwards’ readers and the reading public have the same rights with regard to her books.

There’s only two ways to deal with a troll: ignore them, or make fun of them. But for Crom’s sake, don’t treat them seriously!

—E, while in some cases I’d agree with you, I figure that a) this is a serious issue and b) whatever we might think, as well as SAM there are people who are probably lurking here who genuinely don’t understand why we hold these views, and are feeling hurt by them.

Yeah, yeah, I know I’m a softy. I am a middle (or was that muddle?) child, and had to be the peacemaker. So, sometimes I choose to engage politely to an extent with a dissenting view.

However, I need to go now and finish the final read-through of the proofs, and I may reward myself afterwards with a Nora Roberts movie, so I probably won’t make any more comments on this one. :-)

I, for one, have no reservations about snarking Cassie Edwards right into the Savage Ground.  I found the plots of her books ridiculous and her approach to Native Americans insulting, which was enough reason for me to laugh myself sick at the SB commentary on her works.  The plagiarism, however, meant that the gloves are off. 

If she is, as her fans claim, an adult in her right mind, she has no excuse for copying other peoples’ work.  It was unprofessional and unethical and I think she deserves every bit of snark she gets.  She made money for years stealing other peoples’ work and I’m scratching my head as to why her fans are still trying to argue that this issue should have been swept under the carpet.

“Did she bring up Mrs. Edwards’ name? 

No, she didn’t.  She’s wouldn’t stoop so low as to attack a fellow author or anyone else publicly. “

She didn’t need to emphasize the obvious. What do you think provided the impetus and illustrated the necessity for a workshop on the subject of plagiarism?

Gosh, my nose is getting a lot of play.

I don’t say ‘no comment’ when I have one. I have very strong opinions on plagiarism. I imagine the media contacted me because I’ve been a victim of plagiarism. As it appears you see condemning plagiarism as an attack on Edwards I must assume you condone plagiarism. So we have very different views on what’s ‘proper’.

Signet took the proper steps, and the time required, to assess the situation.

Now we move to the biblical portion of the program with the old cast the first stone maneuver.

I have never plagiarized, so I’ll gather my own stones, thanks, and toss them at the act and issue of plagiarism enthusiastically. I’ve got a pretty good arm.

“I’m sorry if you don’t like my opinion but I have as much right to state it as anyone else. “
And so does Nora Roberts have the right to state her opinion, particularly on a subject with which she has had personal and painful knowledge.
Yet you, SAM,  hypocritically claim she shouldn’t comment?
Bah.