Scarecrow and the Romance

Bitchin' Blog Posts

by SB Sarah | by SB Sarah | July 13, 2010 | Tuesday at 1:59 pm | 102 Comments

At the Untethered conference, one of the more thought-provoking presentations was from the founder of College Humor, who talked about how and why videos go viral. One of the major factors in encouraging someone to connect with and pass along a video is the “candy corn” factor- that common nostalgia centered on an object, moment, or common experience that you probably haven’t thought about in years.

I had a “candy corn” moment earlier today when I was thinking about tv shows that I saw early on which fed my interest in romance, specifically Scarecrow and Mrs. King. This was definitely one of my “romance foundation” shows, and I haven’t thought about it for years until the other day when the quote from the show popped into my head and I tweeted it later: “You can’t just walk into my life, hand me a package, tell me to give it to the man in the red hat, tell me you love me, & walk out again!”

Imagine my joy that the first season is available on DVD or via Netflix and iTunes.

I used to set the VCR to tape each episode as it ran in reruns at a time way past my bedtime. I figured out how to program the VCR, set it so it would use as little tape as possible, and fit nearly six episodes on each tape. I saw the first episode where they meet a LONG time after I found the show, and was shocked at how distant and rude Lee was to Amanda compared to how affectionate and eye-rolling tolerant he was in later episodes. Then once her family knew about him, it was a completely different dynamic compared to those early episodes where her even knowing him is a complete and utter secret.

The interesting thing about shows like Scarecrow, Moonlighting, Remington Steele, and the like is that they weren’t as satisfying for me once the couple resolved the tension and got together - “They Did It” pretty much killed the tension (and it jumped the shark) between Maddie and David, and it wasn’t as satisfying for me either once Scarecrow and Mrs. King emphasized that “and” between them. It was the little moments of tempting possibility that kept me watching - once her family knew about him and they were a couple, it wasn’t as ... tense. And the reason to watch dissipated.

(Also, is it me or was it rather different at the time that Amanda was as single divorced mom heroine? I loved Amanda - she stood up for herself and followed her instincts and was unashamed and unabashed about being a mom, a housewife, and a smart woman. “Yes, yes, I’ll wait in the car,” and then she never did.)

Constrast that to my reading habits, where an extended series of will they-will-they-come ON ALREADY in a romance novel series drives me haywire batshit. I expect more resolution and faster development between protagonists in my romance fiction - which makes sense given the format differences even as I question my patience with television and my lack of patience with series that don’t develop as fast as I’d like. Maybe I’m too hard on my books.

Patricia Briggs’ Mercy Thompson series worked so well for me, though, backwards and forwards, by which I mean that once I read the book that featured the greatest romantic payoff and solidified my suspicions about who Mercy would end up with, I went back and reread the previous books to read more into the sparse moments between those two characters. Once I know where the romantic thread is going, I like to see it develop again with - which is why I rewatched early seasons of the X-Files while referencing a “shippers guide” that has since been taken offline, so I could watch for moments in the series between Scully and Mulder that reveal that gaspy-oh-yes-it’s-true feeling.

Then there are those shows that followed a couple who were already together, like Hart to Hart. Did you like those shows as much where the “couple” was already together, or Was the tentative smidgen-by-smidgen romance part of the fascination? I was a big fan of secret-couple series, where the circumstances surrounding the partners require that their connection be kept a total secret -
Scarecrow and Mrs. King and Beauty and the Beast being the two major examples in my entertainment nostalgia-journey. I was damn near obsessed with those shows.

What shows fed your romance habit? I know we’ve talked about romance on tv and in movies before, and MERCY STUDMUFFINS did I spend money on DVDs after those threads, but in this case, I want to know which tv shows about slowly-developing romances were your candy corn, the ones you look back on and think, “OH, I LOVED that show!”

Also, does anyone else have the theme to Scarecrow & Mrs. King stuck in their heads? Because it’s been the soundtrack of my day for hours now. Oy. Wait, let me help. MWAAAAHAHAHAHA.

Is there anything hotter than flying Bruce Boxleitner with a beige sweater tucked into his pants? No. No, there is not.

Filed: General Bitching, Random Musings

Tagged: video, scarecrow and mrs king, retro, nostalgia, awesomesauce

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MicheleKS said on 07.13.10 at 02:40 PM • [link]

I would say that Remington Steele and Moonlighting lit the romance fire in me back in those days. I had a serious crush on Pierce Brosnan back then and- dang, I need to get that show on dvd just to see if it was as good as I remember.

I also loved the episodes of shows where there was an oh-so-brief romance- I watched Magnum P.I. and Miami Vice like mad back then and the episodes where the guy got together with some babe where always some of my favorites.
Nadia said on 07.13.10 at 02:46 PM • [link]

I adored “Scarecrow and Mrs. King.” And “Moonlighting” and “Remington Steele” as well. I agree that the sexual tension was more satisfying than the payoff, and I’m not sure why. Maybe the writers were better at emphasizing the flirty banter during the lead-up? Once they were together, the focus was less on couple, and that’s not what hooked me?

I don’t generally care for an open-ended book series where there is seemingly no resolution in sight for heroes and heroines, or an HEA from one book turns out later to not really be an HEA. Iris Johansen pulled that in her “Eve Duncan” series, and while I get that she’s not really romance anymore, that’s not what I expected. And I’ve never been able to get into the Stephanie Plum series.

Perhaps that explains my deep and abiding child-love of “The Love Boat” and “Fantasy Island”: the resolution, for good (or even sometimes bad), by the end of the vacation. Certainty is very appealing when real life is anything but.

As to the marrieds, J. D. Robb gets Eve and Roarke together pretty quickly and that works for me (so far, I’ve only read about half, as I’m pacing myself). And just finished “Changeless” and without getting into spoilers, let me say that I am waiting impatiently for September to find out what happens next for our already-together hero and heroine. The author is either a genius, or I will hate her for the rest of my life. ;)
Beth said on 07.13.10 at 02:47 PM • [link]

Gilmore Girls. That show was all sorts of brilliant.
Sarah W said on 07.13.10 at 03:09 PM • [link]

I was all about Scarecrow and Mrs. King—the season where they finally figured out they loved each other was wonderful . . . but you know, I did stop watching after that.

Right now, Leverage is my romantic tv fix. It’s also my intelligence, snappy dialogue, Robin Hood, secret criminal heart fix, but I digress.

Nate and Sophie have been dancing around each other for two seasons, were separated for half a season during which he figures out she was essential, had a killer kiss in the finale of season two, and now the dance has changed—as in, Nate’s decided to do more than just shuffle his feet and turn in a circle. . .

The relationship between Parker and Hardison has changed, too. Just when Hardison’s stopped following Parker around like a puppy dog, she’s figured out that maybe these weird feelings she’s been having lately are about him (she’s really not good at interpreting feelings—or having them). She’s still got to figure out that love can mean pain, but it’s worth it.

i can’t wait for the next episode!
queenaeron said on 07.13.10 at 03:14 PM • [link]

I hate Hate HATE those will-they-won’t-they shows. I’ve been going through that crap with one of my favorite shows Chuck. Lois & Clark, Moonlightlighting, Scarecrow and Mrs. King…ARGH! No offense! :-) Personally I think it all goes back to Cheers and bad characters. Sam and Diane had sexual tension, but nothing in common. Heck, they weren’t even truly likable characters. So you put them together and where could you go with it…nowhere. But with the other shows you had fun characters played by decent actors and interesting writing. The thing about “will they, won’t they” is that it gets boring after a while. There is only so many extra “insert gender”-friends you can toss between them, evil villians, or frog eating clones before the viewers say Blah.

In each of the shows above, if they had explored how the relationship changed while they continued doing their “day” job. David could still quip snarky while Maddie rolled her eyes at his antics, but the eye rolling was more loving while they dashed around the city solving their latest case. How do you resolve the fact that the person you love is putting themselves in danger and still let them be themselves. There is drama and comedy in real life as there is in TV life. Personally, I chalk it up to lazy writing. It’s easier to say “Oh it was the Moonlighting Curse” than to get in there and make the relationship work within the confines of the story.

I’m hopeful that the creators of Chuck will reverse this trend, but I’m not entirely holding my breath, just in case! :-)

Bruce Boxleitner is one of those men who gets sexier as he ages. Try watching him in a military pants and white shirt a la Babylon 5…yum! Chuck even had him and my other fav actor Scott Bakula on, but they never did a scene together. That would have rocked my world! :-)
Sycorax said on 07.13.10 at 03:15 PM • [link]

I was a Ballykissangel fan as a teenager - though I thought they way they chose to end the sexual tension was a massive cop out. I lost interest after that. Still, I have fond memories of my frustration and anticipation as the tension played out, season after season.

The series I’m most sentimental about is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and there was always some suspended sexual tension going on there. At various points I shipped Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike, Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara.

On a vaguely related topic, I’ve just gotten my hands on the 1950 adaptation of Georgette Heyer’s The Reluctant Widow. Apparently it’s terrible, but I’m intrigued.
Joanne said on 07.13.10 at 03:16 PM • [link]

My absolute favorite was The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. It wasn’t as good as the movie but still: A dead sea captain, a widow alone in a (how did she ever afford that?) house on a cliff. Sigh. I’m sure it wasn’t as good as I remember so I’m never going to search out the re-runs.

Route 66 wasn’t really a romance series but there was something so sexy about two guys who both love a corvette. (it’s a wonder I’m not that crazy about menage stories now).

And Buffy and Angel. And now Angel turned FBI agent in love with Temperance on Bones.
Sarah W said on 07.13.10 at 03:22 PM • [link]

Sorry for the double comment, but I went from here to find Lee’s proposal to Amanda (‘cause i don’t ahve to clock in for another five minutes) and found “Scarecrow and Mrs. King Romance Lessons” on YouTube!

Part one is here. These are so great, I had to share!
Christine Merrill said on 07.13.10 at 03:43 PM • [link]

And now, I must try to finish a historical with the theme from S & Mrs. K stuck in my head. Because it’s not going away, until I go to netflix

I loved all of those shows. Especially Remington Steele, because Pierce Brosnan was so damn hot. Mulder and Scully broke my heart in the last season, for going so totally off the rails.

And the very last epsiode of Moonlighting, if anyone has seen that, is blisteringly funny. They address the fact that they ruined everything. Miss DiPesto marries Mr. Viola. And there is an exchange were Dave and Maddie think “Why don’t we get married? Too late. No one’s watching anymore.”

Sad but true.
Bri said on 07.13.10 at 03:49 PM • [link]

I echo Bones and Booth in Bones - love that story!

However, i think in many shows, when the leads get together the show suffers, so i kinda hope that the show runners keep the tension going until they are ready to end the show. felt that way about Harm and Mac on JAG and i think in a different way there is that tension Between Benson and Stabler on Law and Ordeer SVU (there were other things there too, like marriages), and the Alias - i STILL think Michael Vartan is swoonworthy ;)

i think there either needs to be the push/pull relationship or the couple needs to be together from the get go and we see the challenges of the marriage - like in Parenthood or as was referenced as in Eve and Roarke. i know there were other examples of this but can’t think right now.
MelB said on 07.13.10 at 03:55 PM • [link]

I loved, loved, LOVED Scarecrow and Mrs. King. I was addicted to that show and commandeered the living room TV each week, ticking off my family. I have to admit I loved it even after they got together. They were so good at taking care of each other. Dave and Maddie, not so much, I think it was because they were a totally different dynamic.

Oh and can’t wait for the new Tron, Bruce is back on the big screen. Yay!!!
Anna the Piper said on 07.13.10 at 04:04 PM • [link]

I don’t think I regularly watched Scarecrow and Mrs. King when it was on, but a good friend of mine ADORED that show, and she waxes nostalgic about it to this day. :)

But! It was definitely on my radar enough that when Babylon 5 started up, I was all “wait what, Scarecrow on a space station”? AND I gotta admit, Mr. Boxleitner was terribly swoonable.

Me, I was totally a Remington Steele girl. And I DO have the whole series on DVD now, and yeah, it’s just as fun for me to go back and rewatch it as it was to watch it the first time. But now I think I may have to actually watch some Scarecrow!
DS said on 07.13.10 at 04:04 PM • [link]

I watched a show here and there on Remington Steele, SC& Mrs. K and Moonlighting, but I was doing shift work part of the time and never got attached to one—ok, I hated Moonlighting because I every time I caught it the two main characters seemed to be fighting.

I did religiously watch X-files up to Post-Modern Prometheus. I don’t care how many Emmys it was nominated for, it was the Jump the Shark moment for me with that show.

I own and rewatch many of the earlier shows and I really enjoy the interaction between Muldar and Scully—Coprophagia is a favorite with Scully being so nonchalant about Mulder’s reports until he mentions the etymologist named Bambi. Then she decides this needs to be checked out in person.
M. Louisa Locke said on 07.13.10 at 04:06 PM • [link]

Remington Steele, Moonlighting, Scarecrow and Mrs. King, the romantic arc of Rockford and his lawyer, all romantic touchstones for me. But 2 British series that you can get on NetFlix also did it for me. Check out Spaced (couple rent flat as couple-even though they aren’t a couple) and Dr. Martin- (can uptight doctor and touchy feely school principal bridge the gap).
Laurel said on 07.13.10 at 04:07 PM • [link]

Oh, Sarah! Scarecrow, Beauty and the Beast, Remington Steele! Be still, my heart. Remington Steele has at least three seasons up on Hulu, btw. The first season, especially, totally holds up. They had the nostalgia factor going in that one with the old movie references and the wardrobe for Laura had lots of hints at classic Bacall and Hepburn looks so now it’s like candy corn squared.

The format definitely matters and I can’t figure out why. In books, I do fine with a series where they get together and still have a ways to go. In television, the hour long shows fall apart for me after the sexual tension is resolved. In sitcoms, it can go either way. But generally if the major couple is already together I’ll stay hooked in on a thirty minute sitcom but not an hour long drama/suspense/mystery/forensic whatever. Writers have obviously figured this out since Bones has come up with some of the most bizarre hurdles for romantic momentum that I have yet encountered.

Books do get a little more wiggle room since you can get inside the head of the character. In the last Mercy Thompson novel, the relationship tension wouldn’t play well on screen. You have to be able to mind read to understand they are still working things out.
Brussel Sprout said on 07.13.10 at 04:08 PM • [link]

Oooo, I loved Scarcrow & Mrs King. I did enjoy Remington Steele too, but didn’t really like Moonlighting. Cybill Shepherd yes, Bruce Willis meh.

It was movies that gave me romance - Fred Astaire movies, plus How to Steal A Million with Audrey Hepburn and Peter O’Toole, and of course, Casablanca.

Buffy and Angel were series that later worked for me regarding the romantic angle, and I loved all the unrequited passions - Willow for Xander, Xander for Buffy, Spike for Buffy, Buffy & Angel, etc etc.

Since then, the only series that has thrilled me romantically speaking was a British mini-series about the Civil War (ours, not yours ;-)) called The Devil’s Whore, about a woman striving to survive in 17th century Britain. The heroine is terrific, and there are two love interests.

I also enjoy the companion relationships in recent Dr Who series. Sigh David Tennant, sigh….He’s doing a romcom called The Decoy Bride due out next year.
Nadia said on 07.13.10 at 04:14 PM • [link]

Thinking about this more, and can’t believe I didn’t mention probably the main romantical influence of my childhood - Days of Our Lives! Grandma and Mom watched it religiously and so of course it’s one of my early TV memories. But you know, even when I was an early teen, it bothered me that couples weren’t ever allowed to just. be. happy. I mean, Renee and Tony were kept apart by fighting parents, returned-from-the-dead wife, and even incest! When they finally figured out they weren’t siblings? She gets killed that night. Seriously?!? I was pissed, lemme tell you! Maybe that early scarring is why I’m so hooked on the HEA now, LOL.
Ann said on 07.13.10 at 04:22 PM • [link]

Sometime in the late 80s-lifetime started showing this show called “Cover Up” about SPIES! LURVE! and HUNKY MODELS!

I loved the tension between Dani and Jack Striker (Jon-Erik’s replacement).

I think that’s why I love romantic thrillers. *sigh* I just googled a ton of pictures trying to remember this guy’s real name. I think I need to download them now…

larger79—-Oh yes, he was featured in larger than 79% of my biggest adolescent fantasies!
Nadia said on 07.13.10 at 04:29 PM • [link]

I just googled a ton of pictures trying to remember this guy’s real name.

Wikipedia sez: Antony HamiltonSomewhere in my attic is my old teenage scrapbook, and there is the cover of People magazine from when Jon-Erik died. Sigh. I loved that show, either guy.

Mel Gibson on People when he first hit it big is also in that scrapbook. Some crushes do not stand the test of time, LMAO!
Nadia said on 07.13.10 at 04:30 PM • [link]

And now I can’t get “Holding out for a Hero” out of my head.
Leslie H said on 07.13.10 at 04:30 PM • [link]

Funny you should ask…I loved Remington Steele and when I found them on Netflix I got disk one and…I couldn’t watch it. The actors real life silliness and petty jealousy overrides the sparks that should be there.

On the other hand… McMillan and Wife downloadable from Netflix was a LOT hotter than I remember as a kid when I watched it. Even knowing Rock Hudson was gay!

Another one: Perry Mason- I got the first season and whoa doggies! Bad Girls, sex, drugs, it has some VERY sharp edges.

Paul Drake dating the ex-suspects, Della throwing books on the table because Perry was seeing a client without an appointment. Perry pulling lawyer hijinks that are SO illegal now. The Miranda didn’t come into existance until 1966, so the cops are scary too.

Della and Perry… Not. Quite. Flirting. Erle Stanley Gardner said that if they had ever had sex his wife would have killed him because he based Perry on himself. Even so Della was very at home at Perry’s apartment cooking for him, and he bought her a LOT of dinners. He gave her a black pearl necklace with a trip to Fiji (I think) for her birthday in one of the 80’s movies. Yes, a trip with him. Yow!
christine merrill said on 07.13.10 at 04:36 PM • [link]

I am still a Chuck fan, now that they’ve gotten together. But the show has it’s ups and downs.

Although I am with Brussel Sprout. Doctor Who. All the way. Every time I think they’ve run out of ideas for romantic tension, they come up with something new.

And I LOVE the new season. Steven Mofatt was brilliant with Coupling and Jekyll and has put a lot of sizzle into the Doctor.
Mfred said on 07.13.10 at 05:00 PM • [link]

Veronica Mars. VERONICA MARS! And Logan?! Anyone?

First they hate each other. And then, forced to work together, they start to understand each other… AND THEN WITH THE KISSING!! OMFG NDKJSBDF NSAJDFHNE!!@@11!!

/fan girl explosion
Carrie Lofty said on 07.13.10 at 05:08 PM • [link]

Sam and Annie in LIFE ON MARS (British version). Several couples from BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, particularly Helo & Athena. And whoa damn, the Doctor and Rose from DOCTOR WHO (I still cry).

For the way-back machine, I was obsessed with THE YOUNG RIDERS. A shy, hot young gunfighter and a fiery, clever girl dressed as a boy (because she needs to earn enough money to spring her brother and sister from an orphanage)? Sounds like a romance novel. You’ll not be surprised to learn that my fascination with romance and history began there.
StacieH4 said on 07.13.10 at 05:10 PM • [link]

I watched all those shows Moonlighting, Remingtion Steele, Scarecrow & Mrs. King...loved them and still look for that relationship tension in shows today…Bones and Castle come to mind.

I’m sure there were/are a bunch of sit-coms that use the same device…Who’s the Boss worked really well until the relationship between Tony and Angela developed. My favorite show now is The Big Bang Theory and I was dead sure it would tank when Penny and Leonard became a couple so quickly. I have to hand it to the writers though, their relationship is a mess—over already (or is it?)—and I’m still watching. That could be the engineering geek in me though.
Deb said on 07.13.10 at 05:20 PM • [link]

There was a term coined in the 1980s for certain television shows: URST, which stands for “unresolved sexual tension.” In shows like Scarecrow, Moonlighting, Cheers, and others, there was always the “will they or won’t they” or, more appropriately, “why don’t they” factor. The key was to string the URST out until viewers began losing interest and then finally get the characters together. Sadly, at that point, shows usually “jumped the shark” because the URST was what had kept lots of people watching.

I think it’s different when you read a book versus watch a television show. A book is finite, with only a limited amount of time to present its characters, plot, tension, and other elements. A television show could (conceivably) go on for a long time and characters need to be developed more slowly.
Mary S. said on 07.13.10 at 05:22 PM • [link]

I was a huge Lois & Clark fan when it aired. Followed the early message boards and practised squeezing all the episodes possible on to one VHS tape like Sara mentions.

The odd thing about that show is that since the audience knew they were eventually going to be together (L&C got married on tv at the same time they got married in the comic book), half the folks on the boards were mad that they didn’t just “do it already” and half the folks enjoyed the tension and were willing to be strung along (I fell into this group). I think everyone realized that the reason for watching would be over once they got together. For me at least, this meant I was ok with stringing the relationship along as long as the writing was still fresh.

Thanks for bringing back the good memories. Maybe I need to dig out that “mixed tape” my friend made me of all my favorite L&C episodes. mmmm 1990s Dean Cain. numma numma.
Zoe Archer said on 07.13.10 at 05:30 PM • [link]

God, I loved the theme music to Scarecrow. It would play in my head as I would run into elevators as if someone was chasing me. Between that and Remington Steele, my addiction and fascination to heroes both shady and charming was born. Pierce Brosnan was my boyfriend, even though I was 11 and he was…not. Watching these programs (the Young Riders—yes!) definitely helped fuel my imagination and got me writing what might now be termed fan fiction, which eventually led me to becoming a published romance author. So, thank you Bruce and Pierce, for making all this possible.
JennKnight said on 07.13.10 at 05:49 PM • [link]

I grew up in the 80’s but the show that really influenced my romance reading was JAG because there was a legitimate obstacle to even acknowledging how they felt, and also because Mac wasn’t being pressured to give up her career, something she loved and excelled at. (I liked the way the writers chose to resolve it, but the final episode was very hastily written and it showed.)

I found that as the show went on, I developed a strong craving for strong, independent heroines like Mac, which is probably why I’m addicted to Bones now.

Now that I’m thinking about it, I think another reason I like these two is that the “will they or won’t they?” isn’t an element in every episode. It’s there, lurking in the background, and only comes to the foreground occasionally.

Plus, David James Elliot and David Boreanaz are hot.
Rachel said on 07.13.10 at 05:56 PM • [link]

When I first started reading romance, I used to occasionally abandon books after the first sex scene - or at least, I would have a very hard time getting interested in the book again. I was all about the lead-up! No doubt that came from TV. (And also possibly from the fact that I hadn’t been in a relationship, so the part before they were together, the part that I could imagine happening one day, was the part that I wanted. I couldn’t imagine actually being in a relationship, so the after didn’t grab me as much.)
Marie said on 07.13.10 at 06:18 PM • [link]

Wow. Memories, huh? Scarecrow and Mrs. King. Moonlighting. Beauty and the Beast! Oh yeah. Lois & Clark. X-Files - yum (although I was totally pissed when Scully ends up pregnant by Mulder, but we never got to see them reach that point in their relationship). My mom used to watch Days of Our Lives so I’m a Bo and Hope fan. B

Buffy & Angel, of course.
Now I’m a Bones & Booth fan :)
Wendy said on 07.13.10 at 06:23 PM • [link]

I didn’t watch a ton of TV when I was younger, but I have to chime in with Elisa and Goliath from the cartoon Gargoyles.

Seriously. Human/non-human tension coupled with all kinds of “we’re the last of our kind, my X is a crazy bitch, but I can’t give up hope because honestly…breeding.” So. much. love for these two. When Elisa is in trouble, Goliath forgets all his pretensions toward not showing how he feels, and the verge on Moments for sixty-some episodes. Their final moment of the series is delicious when it comes.

Also in a Disney Afternoon vein: there was totally something going on between Baloo and Rebecca Cunningham in Talespin. I just rewatched 90% of that show last summer. Seriously. I’m pretty sure I loved it when I was little for that subtle friendship-that-might aspect as much as for the silliness and the airplanes.
Angela James said on 07.13.10 at 06:43 PM • [link]

First of all…ARGH! Chuck spoilers in the comments and I’m still catching up on last season. ARGH!

Second, I think there must be many people who are like you, Sarah, and enjoy the “will they or won’t they aspect” because I hear as many people say they don’t want to know the answer to “Ranger or Joe” as I hear from those who do. But I also think that there comes a point in those storylines where you can no longer sustain a plot/tension/conflict by dragging out that decision, will the H/h get together, who will she choose, etc. because dragging it out ends up creating its own kind of problems, both with the fan and between the characters themselves. For one thing, it can end up being used as a substitute for stronger conflict, and for another, that kind of tension, as with any, needs some sort of relief or it wears out the reader/fan and the characters.

So while that storyline can create terrific chemistry and tension between characters, it can also create a barrier to moving forward to new conflict and plots, as well as create an almost sort of…disinterest or indifference because the fan is so worn out from never having any expectations met in a resolution of the tension.
WorthaFortune said on 07.13.10 at 06:46 PM • [link]

I’m going to totally going to be showing my age but… my favorite romance tv show?

Fucking 1990’s X-men. I LOVED Rouge and Gambit and the will they won’t they tension because they couldn’t really get together because of Rouge’s powers. And don’t even get me started on the Cyclops-Jean Grey-Wolverine story line. Ah so much tension and drama!

I totally remember that Gargoyles tension. And freaking April from Teenage Mutant Nija Turtle, but man I can’t remember which turtle she ends up being with!
Becky said on 07.13.10 at 06:49 PM • [link]

So if romantic tension can’t be drawn out as long in a book series, what is too long? The tension between Lady Julia and Brisbane in Deanna Raybourn’s series is absolutely delicious, and I can’t wait to see what happens in book four. (There was some resolution at the end of book three, but with these two I can’t imagine that means “smooth sailing forever”.) And at six books and counting, the developing relationship between Clare Fergusson and Russ Van Alstyne in Julia Spencer-Fleming’s series is better than the mystery in some of the books.
Zoe Archer said on 07.13.10 at 07:08 PM • [link]

Y’all are reminding me so much of shows I loved and watched all through my youth, including the animated programs. Gargoyles—yes! X-Men Rogue and Gambit—yes! (I had a poster of Gambit up in my college apartment. The accent, the coat, the yum.)

I think it’s becoming more evident that many narratives feature romance as a plot element, but it’s a matter of what aspects of the narrative are foregrounded. Now I can have my caper/adventure but with the romance front and center, where I like it.
queenaeron said on 07.13.10 at 07:46 PM • [link]

Sorry about the Chuck spoilers, I figured since it’s been a month or more, I didn’t need to worry about spoiler warnings.

Someone mentioned the J.D. Robb “In Death” series. That’s a great example of how to write a series with the main characters together. In fact, one of the things I like so much about that series (even though I can’t stand Nora Roberts’ romance novels) is how the characters have changed and grown. The relationship between Eve and Roarke has changed and deepened and become a real relationship in my mind. If it had stayed the way it was in the first few books, I wouldn’t still be enjoying it. But I like how Eve has been learning all the marriage rules and how she’s expanding circle of family and friends and how she’s learning to let Roarke in without feeling she’s losing herself in the process. I’ve read all the books (buy them in hard cover almost always the day they come out) and now I’m listening to them on audiobook. This is probably one of my favorite series because of the relationship between Eve and Roarke and the whole whole cast of characters. MaryJanice Davidson’s Undead series was also a favorite, but I’m withholding my judgment until I see the next book. I so did not like the ending of Undead and Unwelcome (I won’t spoil).

I find with both books and TV and even movies that some of the relationship twists and emotional bruhaha writers like to throw in as story line, I end up tossing the book aside saying “ARGH! Just tell her/him you love them” I have little to no patience with those gyrations. And I HATE those “fall in love, break apart for stupid/heroic reasons and then get back together so many years later” I find that I get really angry about missed opportunties in my own life and reading stuff like that makes me homicidal (J/K) so I’ve never seen The Notebook. A friend who knows how I am told me to never see it, I’d just lose it at the end!

I know I’m strange and funny enough it works well for me!
Ellen Brand said on 07.13.10 at 07:48 PM • [link]

I think one of the big problems with the UST and Moonlighting and such, for me, is that they base the show around the unresolved question, so when they finally do it, they don’t know where to GO.

Whereas with Eve and Roarke, for instance, the relationship plotlines are just that, about their relationship, not just whether or not they’re going to have sex. There’s all the little hurdles you have to deal with in a relationship with someone, because you’re both fallible human beings, and nothing’s perfect. Plus with such a large cast, you’ve got new relationships blooming and occasionally dying all over.
MB said on 07.13.10 at 07:48 PM • [link]

Northern Exposure was another one that was better with URST. Afterwards, not so much.
Cyranetta said on 07.13.10 at 07:50 PM • [link]

What a pluck on the nostalgic heartstrings—Scarecrow & Mrs. King, Beauty and the Beast…

I have to admit that BatB’s appeal was also (and majorly) the World Below where classical and handcrafted things had great community value.

Back to the romantic aspect of television series: I find there’s a delicate balance between gently prolonging the unresolved attraction and bizarrely throwing obstacles in the might-be couple’s path just because you have to prevent closure. I don’t think the balance has truly been achieved yet, and I just hope that more series try. Castle has done a fine job so far, but I suspect that the new season will start the bizarre phase.

I think book series are more effective at this dynamic than television series. Although Eve/Roarke has got to be the best most successful example, there are a number of mystery series where the couple’s dynamic plays out strongly, even though they “got together” in the first book—the Mr. & Mrs. Darcy series by Carrie Bebris, the “quilt” series by Earlene Fowler, to name two.

I suspect that the reason books are more successful at managing interest in a relationship over the long haul is that they broaden the canvas—one becomes interested in secondary characters like Peabody or Mira in the Robb “Death” series.

I do wonder if the gender of the television series writer has anything to do with how skillfully they play the couple dynamic?
Ann said on 07.13.10 at 08:06 PM • [link]

At Nadia
And now I can’t get “Holding out for a Hero” out of my head.

Now it’s in my head!!!! I’ll have to buy it for my ipod… I wonder if they have Cover Up on dvd? And Gargoyles… And Lois & Clark… Can you tell I’m going on a long flight?
Betsy said on 07.13.10 at 08:16 PM • [link]

Oh, The X-Files was the ultimate example for me. I found seeing them as a couple in the second movie depressing, because I missed the will-they-won’t-they tension so much!
John C. Bunnell said on 07.13.10 at 08:16 PM • [link]

Oh, lord.

I was very much a Remington Steele groupie back in the day, and at least aware of S&MrsK; Moonlighting, though, I never understood—partly because they seemed to be trying way too hard to make it funny, and partly because Bruce Willis as a Romantic Heartthrob never made sense to me. The one episode I rather liked, despite myself, was the Maddie-and-Dave riff on Shakespeare’s Shrew.

Incidentally, it was pointed out to me awhile back that Laura Holt and Maddie Hayes are obviously half sisters (or something) because both their mothers on those shows are played by Beverly Garland….

The Elisa/Goliath relationship on Gargoyles definitely has a place in the continuum, too, although (for completely logical reasons) it was way underplayed onscreen. Also worth mentioning in this context is the animated theatrical feature Anastasia, which is totally a stealth Tracy/Hepburn romance as well as an old-fashioned caper movie and a better classic Disney musical than some of Disney’s own features.

The current descendant-series to all of this is, of course, Castle, which in its best moments is just sparkling. I have some hope, given the writing to date, that the scripters for that one will manage to write their leads successfully through the resolution of the UST—but we’ll see.
Pam said on 07.13.10 at 08:19 PM • [link]

Remington Steele, yup! Mostly because Pierce Brosnan was so gorgeous. Ghost and Mrs. Muir—I loved that show, too. Also loved The Avengers, again because of the tension between the two main characters. Steed and Mrs. Peel weren’t exactly what I think of as romantic, but the relationship sizzled.

When I was a little older, I fell in love with Flickers when it ran on Masterpiece Theater. The marriage of convenience plot between two ordinary looking protagonists yielded some major awwwww! moments. Also loved To the Manor Born. Again the main characters were not heavy on glam, but seemed real enough to care about. Also, their interactions were hilarious without being demeaning. Though I’d never describe Peter Bowles as hot, I loved his character on that show. Loved him in The Irish RM as well.

I actually like that type of plot line in books as well as on film. It all depends on the writer’s skill. In a television show, the skill of the actors is a major factor in making of the sexual tension/reluctant attraction work. There needs to be real chemistry to sustain the will-they-or-won’t-they tension over the course of a series. And once they do, the series usually does need to end. Part of the reason might be that when the relationship becomes the central focus, other plot elements often become proportionally skimpier, and there’s not a lot to maintain the interest once the central conflict is resolved. In a book, it’s all about showing rather than telling. Clichés, static characters, and repeating variants of the same scene throughout the story can wreck this type of plot. However, when an author has a subtle touch and a sense of humor, I can definitely enjoy this type of relationship in a novel. Oddly enough, I think of Heyer in this context.
fifi trixibelle said on 07.13.10 at 08:37 PM • [link]

I’ll agree on Brucie (still breaks my heart that he married Melissa Gilbert)

and raise you Jon-Erik Hexum
Lyssa said on 07.13.10 at 08:50 PM • [link]

Okay I remember the Remington Steele led to Moonlighting story. (Basically the writers of RS were told to write very boring stuff, so they quit and became writers for Moonlighting…which you had to admit tried for that “His Girl Friday” verbal war style.) But that is why I loved that show, RS was well not only the romance, but also who was RS really…then yes the story went downhill. But I don’t know if it was that the story went downhill because the characters “did it” or if it went downhill because the “ROMANCE” became the plot, rather than a sub-plot device.

In books I like when a romance comes to a normal progression point, even if that progression is breaking up. I have read mystery series where the female protagonist went through 3 different boyfriends before she met the ‘right one’. And that story worked. The problem with Ranger/Joe/Stephanie is again the attempt to have the sub-plot override the need for a plot. Laurell K. Hamilton also suffers from this problem. Forgetting to have a solid plot, and deal with the romance/relationship. (With her she has almost left having any mystery plot, to deal with the soap opera drama of her musical bed characters). Still, same problem, same result. You loose viewers, readers, because the DRAMA of the Romance replaces any other plot.

When the Ilona Andrews writing team bluntly wrote about their dealing with the ‘romance issue’ in the Kate Daniels series, it made me happy. They decided to allow the slowly developing romance to have a strong subplot in book 4 of the series. And they did not allow for a HEA at the end…instead the protagonists will go on to deal with the next set of problems. What made me happiest, was that the ‘romance’ itself will come with new problems, does not solve old ones, and did not replace the plot line within the book. Actually the romantic tension just added more issues to be dealt with in the 300 pages. And when the book was over…I was looking forward to the next one.

Which is why I think books like the Eve Dallas, Kate Daniels, Miller’s Kill series work. They don’t replace plot with ‘romantic tension’ but allow that tension to add subtle shadings to the plot unfolding in the story. But I digress from the initial question.

Where did telly lead my romantic heart? A little before I ever watched Remington Steele, or Moonlighting, I watched Westerns. Terrible shows like “Bonanza” and “Big Valley” where men where men, women were women, and love equated loss. ((I think everyone of the Cartwright sons got married only to have their wives die. And well Ben himself with his 3 wives, all who died when the boys were young.)) But it made for great falling in love with a different person each week story line. Then there was MacMillian and Wife, a very silly show, but so much fun to watch. (I dislike how the writers had Sally be so dimwitted that she could barely tie her own shoes. Note in the westerns Women ran ranches, did almost every job a man could do, and looked good when they cleaned up!

spamword= series43 I think I have started and given up on 43 series that fell into formula-ic writing with no character development.
queenaeron said on 07.13.10 at 09:26 PM • [link]

Amen to the Laurel K. Hamilton comment. I loved her stuff until she found porn and then it was all about sex with a little plot thrown in for the die-hard fans. I’m not that die-hard.

I’ve been having the same issue with the Evanovich series. I can get that she lusts after Ranger, but Joe’s the normal stable guy who does get crazy when she does stupid stuff, he’s basically learned to support her and let her be “Stephanie” My bigger issue has been that until the last book or so, she never seemed to get any better at being a bounty hunter. She seemed to keep making the same mistakes and that gets boring and isn’t realistic at all. I’m okay with crazy things happening to her (my favorite was the trash truck falling on Ranger’s Porsche) but after a while, especially if she’s making her living being a bounty hunter, you have to get at least decent at catching the bad guys. Not Ranger “Bad Guys” but the minor criminals. I haven’t ready 14, 15 or 16, but 13 did seem better.

One of the things I liked with the Undead series was that with the Undead and Unworthy (I think that was where she made the change), Betsy herself gets tired of things being so out of control. I liked the way she handled the werewolf situation in the last one. It was like she was growing into her role as queen and sort of leader of their little band of merry paranormals. She seemed to take a few steps back in this novel. I haven’t finished it (I know, I cheated and read the end, I can’t help myself). But the last chapter is a doozy and if MJD is planning on going that road, I’m outta here. I don’t like it at all. But I’ll give it one or maybe 2 more novels and if things are still headed in that direction, I’m done. It was way too dark and disturbing and while I can see how the characters might end up there, I don’t want to be along for the ride.
Ciara said on 07.13.10 at 09:53 PM • [link]

Oh, I’ve been searching youtube for scenes from Scarecrow and Mrs King since I read this post. I agree with all of the above shows and while I adore Bones, I need a resolution.

My favourite John and Aeryn from Farscape. Love them!!
library addict said on 07.13.10 at 10:43 PM • [link]

I loved Remington Steele and was always rooting for them to get together, too.

Personally, I loved the later seasons of Scarecrow and Mrs King when they were married just as much as the earlier episodes when her mother kept wondering why she was outside so late at night.

And I thought Lois & Clark worked better when they were together. It was all the stupid, she-has-amnesia-no-she’s-a-clone-he-can’t-be-with-her-because-it’s-too-dangerous-then-has-to-leave-to-save-the-universe ridiculous scenarios and stunts to keep them apart for two seasons that killed the show IMO.

I quit watching Criminal Minds when Aaron and Haley got divorced. Later got caught up on the DVDs, but quite permanently when they killed her character off last season. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves that people are so rarely allowed to be happy in a relationship/marriage on TV unless they are sitcom parents with rambunctious children. Hart to Hart and McMillan & Wife are about the only shows I can think of where the leads were happily married. Oh, and the short-lived Jack & Mike and Under Cover. Hopefully, Brenda and Fritz will stay together on The Closer. I love their relationship on that show.

I would love to watch a drama series with a successful on-going relationship that isn’t all about will-they-won’t-they and totally disagree with the mindset that UST is the be-all-end-all of tv drama.
cmm said on 07.13.10 at 11:01 PM • [link]

My early adolescence was in the early 80s and I was definitely a fan of Remington Steele, although I liked the first season supporting cast the best. And it got me interested in watching a lot of classic movies!

Thursday nights were the best, with the Magnum/Simon & Simon block. Huge crush on Tom Selleck, huge crush on the preppy boy who played A.J. (but noticed later on rewatching S&S in 90s reruns that grown up me found Rick with his rougher edges much more interesting.) One thing I like, outside of relationships (neither Magnum nor S&S ever seemed to have any lasting romances) was that when shows last multiples seasons, there’s so much more chance to flesh out the characters’ relationships with each other, fill in their backstories and such.

One that hasn’t been mentioned was a little noticed one-season wonder that aired in 1982: Tales of the Gold Monkey. Pre-minister Stephen Collins as a South Seas seaplane pilot in the 1930s. Roddy MacDowell ran the bar/hotel where the main characters lived and hung out. Several characters were secretly doing intelligence work for various powers that were about to get into a World War with each other. And there was a will-or-won’t-they between Jake and the innocent American girl (and secret spy); supposedly he was still in love with an ex-fiance or something, but there were a few kissy moments at least. I loved the setup and the main characters of Jake, his mechanic Corky and Roddy MacDowell, but the “good girl” was too screamy and cream puff to be a very satisfying match, and the “bad girl” (the Eurasian princess who may or may not be working for the Japanese) was, for an 8:00 show, scary sexually aggressive, and Jake was too innocent for her!

The show recently came out on DVD and I’ve been enjoying rewatching it, although the ethnic stereotypes of various random “tribes” and civilizations showing up in the South Pacific are squirmy-uncomfortable. Between being made in a less PC time period AND harking back to 1930s serials, which traded even more in ethnic stereotypes, that’s a problem. But nostalgia still makes me love this show, and still be sad that it only got one season and never got to the point where they could really start digging into those interesting characters….

Nowadays? The other ones mentioned—Doctor Who, Bones, and lately, Lie to Me, where there is couple potential all over the place between the main guy and his ex-wife, the main guy and the main female in his firm, and the two younger proteges. Oh, and Burn Notice, which is just flat out fun.
Tina C. said on 07.13.10 at 11:28 PM • [link]

I remember Scarecrow and Mrs. King, but I don’t actually remember ever seeing it.

The first romantic relationships that I followed on tv were Joanie and Chachi on Happy Days (who knew he’d grow up into SUCH a Chachbag!) and Mork and Mindy. Later, there was Moonlighting—the first show that I really loved and the first to really disappoint me. The common reason given for why it went to hell so quickly is because they got the protagonists together. I say that’s pretty simplistic and doesn’t even address a lot of issues. Yeah, they rushed the relationship with those two—mostly, from what I understand, because Cybil Shephard got pregnant and they didn’t want to write her out or shut down production. From then on, it seemed like the writing alternated between mostly crap and complete crap. It didn’t help that Cybil told any number of people that she hated Bruce Willis. Meanwhile, Willis gotten famous and very popular and didn’t really want to be there any more, either, and it showed. Boy, did it show. Through necessity, desperation, and wild hope, the Powers That Be tried to cover for the stars’ lack of interest (and physical presence) by making the show increasingly about the goofy secretary and her weird boyfriend—the sort of Bizarro-land David and Maddy—and it just sucked all of the fun and interest (at least for me) right out of the room.

Currently, I’m rolling my eyes at the contrivances that they come up with to keep Bones and Booth apart and hoping they don’t do the same sort of thing for a multitude of years on Castle. I was so very disappointed with how the season finale ended on that show this year and thought that what Rick Castle did at the end was so out of character (and just another way to keep the characters apart for that much longer) that if they don’t come up with a really good reason for it in the season premiere, I might not watch anymore.
Tina C. said on 07.13.10 at 11:32 PM • [link]

Oh, forgot Doctor Who!!! I LOVED The Doctor and Rose! (And they made me cry not once, but freaking twice, over the two of them!)
Carrie Lofty said on 07.13.10 at 11:33 PM • [link]

Tina, I still can’t hear the “Doomsday” theme and not break down. Gah!
Angela James said on 07.13.10 at 11:57 PM • [link]

I’m pretty sure the Doctor and Rose storyline broke me.
Sarapencil said on 07.14.10 at 12:03 AM • [link]

Delurking to submit my Will-they-or-won’t-they favorite TV show. *deep breath*...
Who’s the Boss.
There, I said it! The tension was good, but they had little mini payoffs with dream sequences or other goofy gimmicks that didn’t ruin the tension but gave me a little satisfaction.
Relurking now.
couple32: about 32 times this couple dreamed about kissing!
Carrie Lofty said on 07.14.10 at 12:05 AM • [link]

Coincidence! Old Spice Guy has been responding to Twitter and YouTube comments via personalized videos and just did one for Alyssa Milano about Who’s the Boss. If this ad campaign doesn’t win awards for OMGBESTEVAH, there is no justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oElH6M_5i4&feature=youtu.be
cmm said on 07.14.10 at 12:19 AM • [link]

Oh! forgot to mention one of my favorites of the last few years, another one-season wonder: Moonlight. I hope that CBS is still kicking themselves for cancelling this show *just* before the sexy vampire wave truly crashed into the larger (outside of romance reader/sci fi geekdom) popular culture. Great chemistry between the two main characters, and another potentially sinister yet attractive male vampire to both flirt with the girl and add that slash-friendly vibe with the main male character….
Christine Merrill said on 07.14.10 at 12:48 AM • [link]

Any Doctor and Rose junkies had better be watching the current season. Especially the two season finale eps that will be playing this Saturday and the next on BBC America.

Not Rose anymore, of course. Just naughty, Amy Pond.

But OMG!!!!! Romance alert!!!!!! Chance of sniffling and big wet sighs.

I love that show. Just a little. Is it obvious?
Mary Anne Graham said on 07.14.10 at 12:53 AM • [link]

One that fed my love for romantic tension was a show called Silk Stockings. Anyone remember it?

It was on a cable network, I think, and may have been set in Florida somewhere. Maybe it was in the Miami Vice era. Anyway, it was a cop show and the “will they or won’t they” couple were, of course, partners.

I still laugh thinking about that set. Aren’t all police squadrooms covered in neon?

But the sexual tension was drawn out, built up and divine. Everytime one or the other of them would date someone else, I’d groan… and wait some more.

Fun question - thanks for inspiring the memory!
Mia said on 07.14.10 at 12:53 AM • [link]

I know they’ll never get together and probably should never get together, but I just love Jack and Liz on 30 Rock. Whenever they’re together there’s a sizzle. I used to like the thought of House and Cuddy, but so far the reality of it has left me cold and I’m now on Team House/Wilson. :D
Angela James said on 07.14.10 at 12:56 AM • [link]

I remember Silk Stockings though I would never have thought of it without someone reminding me of it. It was on USA, wasn’t it? And it brings up one I should have mentioned right away. A show where you were dying for the main characters to get together and find a HEA…La Femme Nikita. Michael and Nikita had some smokin’ sexual tension that sustained through a number of seasons but the show did lose momentum once they got together. I’m worried that the remake that’s being done won’t be able to compete with that same sexual tension.
Ana said on 07.14.10 at 12:57 AM • [link]

I adored Remington Steele (and Laura!), and here Silk Stalkings (I think it was named like that) was rather famous among teenagers because it was right in the middle of the afternoon. But I quitted when he got killed and Sam left…
Now I’m totally rooting for Bones and Booth, and HOTchner and Prentiss in Criminal Minds, though I’m sure the tension is better. However Chuck and Blair from Gossip Girl - even if they are more off than on - succeeded in getting the couple united and mantaining the tension
Chicklet said on 07.14.10 at 12:57 AM • [link]

As a kid, the show I loved best was Hart to Hart, where they were already married. I watched Scarecrow and Mrs. King and Remington Steele, but I seem to remember that I gave up on both of them after awhile because it seemed like they would never get together, ever.

Which should have been a warning. In the decades since, I’ve found that nothing drives me battier than a TV show drawing out the UST (Unresolved Sexual Tension) for years without a payoff in sight. I believe that characters who are interesting individually continue to be interesting when they are together, and if you think marriage or long-term relationships are boring, I feel sorry for you, and you should be writing the teleprompter copy for the evening news instead of fictional programs.

Right now, Bones is on probation with me, due to what happened at the end of last season. If the Fall Preview issue of Entertainment Weekly seems to indicate I’ll have another umpteen seasons of Booth and Bones being apart, I’ll quit watching.
Mary Anne Graham said on 07.14.10 at 12:59 AM • [link]

Woops - I Googled it and found out I got it wrong.

The show was Silk Stalkings…........ Silk Stockings must have been my “MaryAnne-ism.” I twist names and words a lot!

Sorry….....
Lizabeth S. Tucker said on 07.14.10 at 01:15 AM • [link]

I adored Scarecrow and Mrs. King from the beginning to almost the last year. The main problem with their marriage was that Kate Jackson was ill and wasn’t available to be on the series much as that time, meaning they scrambled to rework scripts to account for her absence. It just didn’t work.

I loved Pierce Brosnan, but never really felt much chemistry between he and Stephanie Zimbalist. Plus the entertainment reports about her resentment of his suddenly being the golden boy may have tainted my enjoyment.

I was captivated by Bruce Willis and Miss Dispesto, but not too much with Maddie. Some chemistry.

Loved, loved, loved Hart to Hart! But I’ve been a fan of Robert Wagner since before It Takes a Thief and Stephanie Powers since she was the Girl from UNCLE. Two wonderful people who were really friends. Check out their appearance on the Brit show The Graham Norton Show, probably available on YouTube (isn’t everything?).

My current fav in regards to romantic pairings would have to be Bones. Not only Booth and Brennan, but Angela and Hodgins as well as Sweets and Daisy.
edieharris said on 07.14.10 at 01:34 AM • [link]

Until the finale, I wasn’t sure about Kate and Jack on LOST. I mean, I knew he loved her—and I loved how up-front he was about those feeling—but that final kiss of theirs on the Island, when she realizes Jack’s staying…? Ultimate resolution of “will they/won’t they,” IMO. And the show, in general, managed to portray all sorts of different relationships: fidelity issues, separation, unrequited love/lust, myriad complications…the step-sibling incest bit from S1…

Like I said, something for everyone, but Kate and Jack for me.
EbonyMcKenna said on 07.14.10 at 01:35 AM • [link]

Geek alert - when Rose and The Doctor were separated by the time vortex (or whatever it was) and they were stuck on either side of the wall I BAWLED my eyes out.

Also, Bruce Boxleitner was later in Babylon 5 and it was great to see him again. I think he’s in the reboot of Tron as well. Ooooh, spandex body suits!

Something to remember about the earlier series like Scarecro/Moonlighting/Remington Steele - there was a writers’ strike which affected much of production. But yes, it did seem as if once they got together, there was nothing to keep the show moving forward. But to me that just shows a lack of imagination. I’m sure it can work. The problem with Moonlighting was also that Maddie wasn’t available as she was mega-sick with twins and on bed rest. Also, schedule problems with Bruce making movies on the side.

But I digress. Were we talking about Doctor Who?
avrelia said on 07.14.10 at 01:48 AM • [link]

I used to love Moonlighting very much - until they got together, that’s it. But not because they got together, because of how they gt together. Either writers messed up, or the animosity between leads seeped through, but it just didn’t work.

But then everyone is talking about Moonlighting curse, and the remedy seems to offer is to prolong the sexual tension indefinitely? Sorry, I hate that even more.
I love flirting and good sexual tension as much as the next person, but the main reason that I love it, that I like the characters and kind of want them to get together eventually. If I have no hope for that, and no meaningful reason for them to be apart, I am annoyed. Indefinite UST becomes bring and weathers off.
Now, the characters don’t have to be together for me to be happy of course. I loved Buffy and Spike’s resolution, even though there are no fat grandchildren in store for them.
Christine Merrill said on 07.14.10 at 01:58 AM • [link]

How about the Doctor and River Song? Particularly in those killer red heels she was wearing earlier this season?
Miranda said on 07.14.10 at 02:03 AM • [link]

To bring in older sci-fi, I was a big fan of Crusher/Picard on Star Trek the Next Generation. Odo/Kira of DS9 had a nice tragic aspect to it.
Lotta said on 07.14.10 at 02:22 AM • [link]

Wow, have I ever missed out on a ton! I stopped watching telly shortly after Remington Steele started and had no idea they DID IT! I’ve apparently missed out on Scarecrow and Mrs. King, never watched a single X Files and think of BBC when bitches type Dr. Who. THAT SAID. Did anybody catch 1998’s Cupid staring Jeremy Piven? I ran to a friend’s house for all 15 episodes; sheer brilliance, therefore it only lasted one season. Best URST I’ve ever seen. Piven insists he’s Eros and therefore lands on the couch of a sceptical shrink: Psyche!
Ashley JAM said on 07.14.10 at 02:35 AM • [link]

Right now I love Bones. (What an ending to the season! It makes you think they’ll never get together.)
When I was in middle school, they played 4:00 re-runs of Remington Steele that I would run inside from school to watch. I also loved Loved LOVED I Dream of Jeannie: one of the best drawn out will-they-just marry-each-other-I-mean-they’re-living-together-and-she’s-flinging-herself-at-you-(literally)-already! shows (...and I had a thing for Major Nelson =)

Also, I used to watch the re-runs of Dark Shadows on the Sci-Fi channel. I loved watching the romantic intrigues on that show, although most of them were doomed, and was constantly rooting for poor Barnabas and Josette to get together.

Amy said on 07.14.10 at 02:37 AM • [link]

I loved Scarecrow and Mrs. King (SMK), Remington Steele, Moonlighting and Lois & Clark. Oh, and another that just occurred to me, Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman (think that was the name, with Jane Seymour). I have been watching SMK again since the Season 1 DVDs came out, and the subsequent seasons which are available online (on SlashControl). I think SMK could have been great for a few more seasons after they got together, if Kate Jackson had been healthy. IMO Lois & Clark carried out the URST way too long. It got irritating after a while.

Tina C. said on 07.14.10 at 02:38 AM • [link]

Mary Anne Graham said:
One that fed my love for romantic tension was a show called Silk Stockings. Anyone remember it?

I didn’t until you mentioned it, but I really liked it alot.

Angela James said:
A show where you were dying for the main characters to get together and find a HEA…La Femme Nikita. Michael and Nikita had some smokin’ sexual tension that sustained through a number of seasons but the show did lose momentum once they got together.

I can’t believe that I forgot La Femme Nikita!! Speaking of “smokin’ sexual tension”, do you remember the episode where they posed as married assassins and they had to “perform” for the pervert guy that they were trying to take down? That was in the first season and one of the hottest episodes they ever did.

That show was the first show I ever sought out fanfiction for and the first time I ever went in search of message board dedicated to it. Of course, that was so that I could rant about how incredibly pissed off I was about the original ending to that series, when Nikita told Michael that she’d NEVER loved him and that it had all been a cover—I wanted to punch a hole in my tv!! I agree that the 8 episodes that the show’s producers created after that weren’t as strong as the previous ones, but it’s likely because they were made in response to the huge uproar that the “he betrayed absolutely everything he believed in for the love of her and she felt nothing but cold resolve and a bit of pity” ending caused. (And while not as strong, I have to admit that the final 8 episodes still made me a heck of a lot happier than I had been before.)

Christine Merrill said:
Any Doctor and Rose junkies had better be watching the current season. Especially the two season finale eps that will be playing this Saturday and the next on BBC America.

I’ll be watching, but I’m having the hardest time getting into Matt Smith and I’m not entirely on board with the feel of the show under Steven Moffat. At first, I thought that it was because I missed David Tennant’s Doctor (I had a similar transition problem when they first switched from Christopher Eccleston), so I’ve tried to keep an open mind. However, I was loving David within a couple of episodes and I’m really not there with Matt Smith, at all. Over all, other than the episode with the Dream Lord, I’m still just “meh”, so far. I have to say, though, that I love Amy Pond and River Song. Both of them are great!

Sycorax said on 07.14.10 at 02:47 AM • [link]

@Mfred
I’m with you on Veronica Mars and the fangirly shipping of Veronica and Logan. I watched the first season in the space of a week. Pity the later ones didn’t quite measure up.

I really didn’t like the romance plot between 10th Doctor and Rose. One companion shouldn’t matter more than all the others have.

Do any other Aussies remember Seachange? I adored that show, but it annoyed me the way they wrote out Diver Dan (David Wenham) only a few episodes after the ST was resolved, and introduced a new romantic lead. I hated the dynamic with the new one, and stopped watching the show before there was any resolution.

SB Sarah said on 07.14.10 at 03:08 AM • [link]

Oh this thread is going to make me download everything on itunes. I’m not even half way through the first season of Doctor Who (Thanks to Angie for mentioning it).

Good thing I have a 6 hour plane ride tomorrow.

Brooks*belle said on 07.14.10 at 03:12 AM • [link]

Oh I am such a nerd.

I loved Scarecrow and Mrs. King so much that I wanted to grow up to be a SAHM mom who worked for the CIA part time. I wore jeans like her, tennis shoes like her, and fixed my hair like her. I was obsessed.

I liked the name “Lee” so much that when I dated a guy in high school named “Lee” (who looked a little like Bruce Boxleitner, BTW) I got a secret little thrill every time I said his name.

Oh and when Bruce Boxleitner showed up in the TV show Chuck playing Mr. Awesome, I squee’ed like a little fan girl.

Candy Corn!!!!!!!

Ryuden said on 07.14.10 at 04:04 AM • [link]

What a great discussion! I’m fans of most all the shows mentioned and I’d like to add NCIS to the list. I’m still confused on what happened (or didn’t happen) a few episodes ago! I need a support group.

I think the very first show that I experienced this was with Hunter, police drama starring Fred Dryer and Stephanie Kramer! Ah, and a love of romance was born…

Sherry said on 07.14.10 at 05:01 AM • [link]

Oh you made my day by mentioning SMK and Remington Steele. (Sorry I hated Moonlighting because of the David character) Don’t forget Who’s the Boss and Lois and Clarke. Dr Quinn had IMHO the best ‘now they’re married and going to have sex’ episdoes!
But of course, my all time fav is SMK. Bruce was, and still is, majorly good looking and still has throngs of followers who write sexy smk fanfics in order that the romance never dies!

Theresa said on 07.14.10 at 05:10 AM • [link]

Beauty and the Beast is also available on Netflix! I’ve had it in my queue for a bit - I think you just inspired me to move this up the queue. But I do remember from that series that I loved the first season or two and then it got a little weird (ok, it was always weird, there was a beat) and had a poor ending.

I get so frustrated with tv shows because of the pacing. With a book, there’s a set length so the author can pace the action. With a tv show, if its popular, it may stay on a for a while and just draw out the tension that was so good initially (i.e. Lois and Clark). And even have silly situations just to keep the initial vibe going. Then, sometimes the show is cancelled and there just isn’t enough time to really resolve the plot line (I think this is what happened to Beauty and the Beast).

Meg said on 07.14.10 at 05:37 AM • [link]

Remington Steele, definitely. I always felt like Moonlighting was a Steele ripoff. Somehow I managed to miss Scarecrow and Mrs. King (please don’t beat me!).

Northern Exposure, Maggie and Joel, oh, yes. But the whole show jumped the shark when Rob Morrow left and the writers tried to make a Maggie/Chris relationship work. Eep.

I’m sort of surprised no one’s mentioned (or if they have, I’m sorry—the comments thread on this one goes on forever) the on and off and on and off and on and off relationship between Meredith and Derek on Grey’s Anatomy, but then I couldn’t forgive the show for killing off George, who was the best character on it, a season or two ago (I haven’t watched it since), and maybe I’m not alone.

Nowadays it’s Castle, Bones, and Chuck, of course. Nathan Fillion is the Pierce Brosnan of this decade, I swear. Well, in an entirely different way (I swoon over his relationship with his daughter almost as much as I do over the chemistry he’s got with Stana Katic).

Has anyone mentioned Numb3rs? The main reason I stuck with it all the way through its run was the lovely geeky romance between Charlie Epps (David Krumholtz) and Amita Ramanujan (Navi Rawat). Megan and Larry were cute, too.

I wish Men in Trees had lasted a bit longer, too.

Liz said on 07.14.10 at 05:38 AM • [link]

Thanks for bringing back the good memories. Maybe I need to dig out that “mixed tape” my friend made me of all my favorite L&C episodes. mmmm 1990s Dean Cain. numma numma.

I just finished watching the series on Netflix—its streaming there.

I was really young when Lois and Clark was on (when the show ended in 1997, i was 10-11), but i was totally sucked in by the romance. After re-watching it, I have to say that by putting them together during the 3rd season they really jumped the shark. The chemistry was really good there, but once they were together and she knew his big secret, it was over. I honestly couldn’t watch half of the last season. (btw, i skipped right past the frog-eating clone b/c even at 9 i knew that was lame). Honestly, my favorite episode was the one where Tempus told Lois the truth and they had to save baby Clark.

Anyway, Dawson’s Creek was one of the romance shows for me, although I could not stand Dawson. I was (still am) a big Pacey and Joey fan. The episode where he watches her sleep…hmm. Now, I watch him on Fringe, and I’m waiting for Peter and Olivia to get together.

Another one for me was Alias. I loved the tension between Syd and Vaughn, and that kiss after they brought down sd-6 was amazing.

My mom is a big ABC soap fan, so my favorite romances were on a lot of those shows: AMC—David and Erica (I predicted it, but my mom said it was never going to happen), Ryan and Gillian, Leo and Greenley, and Hayley and Matteo, Port Charles—Rafe and Allison, Ian and Eve and Jack and Livvie (but not Livvie and Caleb), GH—Kevin and Lucy, Jax and Brenda, LIZ AND LUCKY!!! (they were soooo sweet together!), Emily and Zander, Alexis and Ned (the storyline where he married Chloe and she married Jax was hilarious!), and Jason and Robin.

Friends…I absolutely loved Monica and Chandler. I read that the writers hadn’t planned on putting them together, but really if you watch the earlier seasons (1-4), you can see there was something there. Season 5 was the best season because you had the “secret relationship” storyline, and as long as its written well (and it was), that can be the best type.

Piper and Leo and Cole and Phoebe (before he was possessed by the Source) on Charmed. Piper and Leo were so romantic because they weren’t allowed to be together. With Cole and Phoebe it was all about taming the bad boy. In the last season, I loved the tension between Phoebe and Coop, and let me tell you when they found out that their’s wouldn’t be a “forbidden romance” like Piper and Leo’s I was ecstatic!

My current “romantic tension” tv shows are Bones, Fringe, NCIS, Warehouse 13 and Psych (i read that this season will be the one in which Shawn and Jules get together, but i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that they’re dating in real life).

Sycorax said on 07.14.10 at 06:18 AM • [link]

I forgot to mention Hamish Macbeth, another BBC drama that ran for three seasons and spun out the ST between Hamish and Isobel (who later freaked me out by turning up as Moaning Myrtle in Harry Potter).

I also read a hint of Esteban and Zia romance into Mysterious Cities of Gold. Is that creepy? Probably not, considering I was only eight or nine myself. Eighties cartoons were awesome. That series is my personal candy corn. (Not that I like candy corn. My personal timtam?)

elph said on 07.14.10 at 07:00 AM • [link]

I loved Scarecrow and Mrs. King, Remington Steele, and Hunter. The tension between the leads worked so well because the shows didn’t really try to hide that the characters were into each other even if they weren’t acting on it explicitly, and you somehow knew they’d go down that road when they were good and ready and not a minute before. Also, they were hot. I loved Magnum P.I. too, partly for the hot factor, and also because it had a theme song that I don’t mind being stuck on for hours. I’m stuck on it now, in fact. And I loved The X-Files, which had some of that same kind of tension. Chuck did too, although those characters were actively trying to hid their feelings from each other. With the other couples, the shows managed to give a sense that the characters knew, they just didn’t intend to do anything about it. Yet. Stargate SG1 and Stargate Atlantis had some of that going on as well, that sense that the characters are perfectly aware that there’s something between them thank you very much, but right now there are bigger fish to fry.

Caroline said on 07.14.10 at 04:34 PM • [link]

I had a huge crush on Bruce Willis when I used to watch Moonlighting. I loved the tension, and rooted for them to get together. I was a lot younger then, and can’t remember much else but a sext Willis in a tuxedo on some steps after dark. Yum. Must go find episodes to download…..

I bawled at the end of Bones this year. Bawled. How heart-wrenching is that ending? But another cheer worthy moment was when Hodgins and Angela realized they were meant to be and tied the knot in jail! I was whooping and bouncing on my couch! This story arc wasn’t really a will-they-won’t-they, more of a wonderful realigning of the stars. We all knew they should be together, we rooted for them, and when Hodgins said “I’m your guy” to Angela’s potential pregnancy with another man she wasn’t sure she loved, we just knew. YAY! (well that and his crazy tattoo likely inked by Angela’s ZZ Top dad.) have I mentioned I love this show?

Castle made me yell, of course. Stupid people! But again, they are really focusing on the URST between those two, and I hope they gat back to what makes the series good instead of soap opera-ing it, or they will jump the shark eventually. I’m looking forward to that season premiere.

Sally said on 07.14.10 at 04:51 PM • [link]

This is a sad confession for my sick little mind, but as a TWEENER, I adored Flamingo Road. I loved the tension between floozy Lana Ballou and torn- between-two-lovers senator played by Mark Harmon.

Plus there was the Titus Semple in the linen suit calling everyone ‘bub’. I used to count how many times he’d say it in an episode.

Sally said on 07.14.10 at 05:08 PM • [link]

Oh! @M. Louisa Locke: I LOVED Spaced! It’s just so British to be so twisted and end up sweet. LOL

Julie said on 07.14.10 at 06:22 PM • [link]

I’m still obsessed with Scarecrow and Mrs. King 25 years later!! There has never been a more romantic show on TV as far as I’m concerned. The chemistry between Lee and Amanda was magic, and was a huge influence on me as a teenager. You’re right—Lee is a much different person in Season 1 than he was by Season 4, but watching the transition that he went through as he fell head over heels in love with Amanda was a big part of the fun. Amanda was a great role model for girls in the 80s (and still is today). She was a smart, successful, confident, resourceful single mother that took everything Lee threw at her and gave it back to him twofold. If you haven’t seen SMK in awhile, get your hands on Season 1 ASAP! You won’t regret it.

Sharon said on 07.14.10 at 06:45 PM • [link]

I loved Moonlighting because it was smart and fast and real and because of the chemistry between the main characters—that was the point of the show—once the tension ended, the entire point of the show ended. Lois and Clark was wonderfully romantic (and Teri Hatcher was much, much prettier pre-plastic surgery), as was Beauty and The Beast.

OTOH, I loved Hart to Hart, too.

For me, since I’m as old as dirt, the television version of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir fed my attraction to romantic storylines—the movie, too, although I’m not quite old enough to have seen that during it’s original release run.

JennKnight said on 07.14.10 at 08:23 PM • [link]

@ elph: I’d forgotten SG-1! I liked the UST with Jack and Sam that, again, was not the focus of the show —and the writers getting rid of it eventually. Also enjoyed the Daniel/Vala storyline during the last season though the ending was….meh.

Madd said on 07.14.10 at 09:49 PM • [link]

I was like 7 when Scarecrow and Mrs. King came on and I had the HUGEST crush on Bruce Boxleitner. I think he was my first celeb crush. They only got odder from there. I moved on from him to Vincent from Beauty and the Beast and from him to Captain Picard. How many other 10 year old girls had crushes on Patrick Stewart? Probably not many.

I loved Moonlighting and Remington Steele. My English lit. teacher actually had us to watch the Atomic Shakespeare episode of Moonlighting in class during our section on Shakespeare.

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orangehands said on 07.15.10 at 02:20 AM • [link]

TV shows: I like sexual tension, but there needs to be a reason they don’t get together. After a certain point, I call it laziness on the writer’s part. I really don’t get how being together suddenly lessens the sexual tension and/or problems between the H/H.

Beth: I loved Gilmore Girls; they did the relationship so well until Luke’s daughter hit the scene/Rory left college. Up to that point, they were one of my favorite TV couples. And their first kiss was AWESOME.

Sarah W: I never really cared all that much about Nate/Sophia, but Parker/Hardison (though I was okay with Hardison and Elliot…yes, I’m a Ho Yay Fan) was adorable. I loved that last episode - the pretzels will be here. But if it takes forever, they’ll lose me.

they base the show around the unresolved question, so when they finally do it, they don’t know where to GO.

This!

Jennifer said on 07.15.10 at 07:28 AM • [link]

Remington Steele formed my romantic template of life—of my 3 exes, 2 look like him and the third ah…well, has another distinctive trait like him that I’ll restrain myself from mentioning in the modern era. Very funny…

See, the thing that drives me nuts is when the romantic tension is put off for seasons and seasons and seasons beyond the point of logic and reason. Bones and (most likely) Castle are going to be doing that with the MC’s for eternity because it’ll “ruin the show” if they get together, but after 8 years of people not hooking it, that ruins it too because it’s just gotten ridiculous. Bones fans in particular should be very mad. I actually prefer B&B as a noncouple (mainly I don’t want to watch Brennan being a parent, it makes me shudder), but even I think the way they’ve treated the subject of them getting together over the years is really ridiculous. I was also pissed at how stupid it was that they broke Hodgins and Angela up, but they then put them back together over the course of the year very nicely. So Bones has gone all over the map here.

It was a relief when they finally ended the “will they or won’t they” on Chuck, because the reasons for dragging the two apart were just getting so bad and weak and the fans were really angry over it. It was hurting the show NOT to show them as a real spy couple. I think most shows just need to transition into the people being a couple and go all Eve and Roarke, because stringing it out forever doesn’t work either. They can still fight/disagree/spark while together, you know!

Lexie said on 07.15.10 at 07:59 AM • [link]

Good lord, @Sarah, did we have the same childhood? Scarecrow, Moonlighting, Remington Steele… hell, even Robotech (the Macross Saga with the Rick/Lisa/Minmei triangle, ooh lawd what a hot mess that was). I grew up into a Mulder/Scully shipper in high school/college. Now grown, I’ve been sucked into shipperdom over Mary and Marshall on In Plain Sight… I guess I just like a good love story, in all its forms and through all its trials.

Stefanie said on 07.15.10 at 01:31 PM • [link]

In books and TV, I like to have a strain of romance that I can latch on to and keep me coming back. I can’t really stand procedurals/cop/medical dramas that focus on the crime and not the relationships. I also like some UST but not to the point of ridiculousness. Castle is an exception. Oh, and how could people neglect Pushing Daisies? I mean, the ultimate UST because if the hero touched the heroine, she’d die. That extra, tragic element would have definitely been able to sustain UST and my interest had the show lasted longer than it did. Right now, Gossip Girl (which is all over the map regarding their couples) is giving me my romance fix with the continually tension filled relationship of Chuck and Blair.

I grew up on HEA Disney/Bluth/whatever studio Swan Princess was movies. I love the HEA in everything, but also really love the what-comes-after part, too. The Swan princess sequels were great that way (not great in many other ways). Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman also had Michaela and Sully have a married relationship. I also adored Monica and Chandler’s long-term relationships, much more enjoyable than Ross and Rachel’s later storylines (Joey especially). Also old episodes of Hart to Hart, where they are already married and happy and adorable solving ridiculous murder cases.

All in all, I prefer knowing what happens after the marriage/relationship, and don’t think I could persevere through 8+ seasons of UST. The same with books, I really like when the Hero and Heroine get together halfway through and we see how they adjust to life. I love the closeness that comes from being in a relationship more than the fighting/biting repartee of the courtship.

Estara said on 07.15.10 at 02:20 PM • [link]

I was just thinking that there couldn’t be an 80s sitcom show that hadn’t been shown in Germany, when I got thrown by the title change once you referenced the content. This and Beauty and the Beast where THE SHOWS THAT MUST BE TAPED AND WATCHED, even when I went to the UK for 8 months as an au pair, so I forced my parents to tape them.

In Germany it was called The female agent with heart ^^ - oh and Hart to Hard was called hard but cordial (which works better in German: Hart aber herzlich)

JamiSings said on 07.15.10 at 05:03 PM • [link]

I don’t remember this show. However I did watch and absolutely adore Hart To Hart. To me, the love that was obvious between those two characters is what I want in a marriage, if I ever found a guy desperate enough to want me.

Plus they had a dog and that’s just awesome. Dogs rule.

Ardeliah said on 07.15.10 at 07:05 PM • [link]

I just adore Scarecrow and Mrs. King and I desperately hope that they release the other 3 seasons on DVD too. The love they had and how they waited until they were married (at least that is how it seemed on the show, in my head was a different story) were perfect.

Qadesh said on 07.17.10 at 10:38 AM • [link]

I am very late to the party, but I can’t believe no one has brought up one the most important parts of Beauty and the Beast… Catherine’s clothing and apartment! Good lord, I loved that show. So much that my older brother bought me the first VHS tape of the show when it was released, a long time ago. He’s too good for me. But I’m serious about Catherine’s clothing, I would still pay a serious amount of money for the maroon coat she wears in the pilot and opening credits. And I would argue that the design for the Vincent’s underground world is probably one of the first depictions of what would become Steampunk. As for the romance, Vincent and Catherine just did it for me. I’ve rewatched episodes and they still hold up. And it seems like Ron Perlman never ages. How is that? I have never had such a strong reaction to a romantic series since this one. I would enjoy them, but not love them with the same BatB passion.

Most of the other romantic shows I would watch for a season or two and then the “will they or won’t they” thing just bored me silly and I would drop them. I don’t think sustaining the tension works. What’s more I hate it when characters who have worked together for years suddenly develop tension. For instance on L&O SVU, when Benson suddenly developed the hots for Stabler, when for years I never got that kind of vibe out of her. Do not make a character do something that goes against all of their character development. (LKH are you paying attention?)

And on a side note, I’ve been surprised for years that no studio has done either a movie or tv remake of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. It seems to me it would be a no-brainer, but what do I know? The original movie is just about as perfect as you can get.

Meg said on 07.17.10 at 08:06 PM • [link]

And I would argue that the design for the Vincent’s underground world is probably one of the first depictions of what would become Steampunk.

Why does everyone forget The Wild Wild West? Sixties, long before any of these series, and it was the first television steampunk.

Not romantic in any sense of the term, but definitely steampunk.

library addict said on 07.18.10 at 03:50 AM • [link]

But I’m serious about Catherine’s clothing, I would still pay a serious amount of money for the maroon coat she wears in the pilot and opening credits.

I always loved the way Francine dressed on S&MK;. I had a cloak that I bought as I thought was very Francine Desmond-ish.