Bitchin' Blog Posts
Race and Loving in Romance
by SB Sarah | by SB Sarah | May 05, 2008 | Monday at 7:09 pm | 258 CommentsI’d been thinking about interracial romance over the weekend, while I was trying to draft a section for The Book (OMG The Whole Genre?!) {that's a working title, obviously} that examined minorities in RomanceLandia. What a verdant, green - or white, perhaps - pasture of peaceful writing that was. Not a landmine in sight for my clodding feet to trip on. No, no. *head desk* So when a friend of mine forwarded me a news article that Mildred Loving, the Black woman whose marriage to a white man overturned laws against interracial marriage died today at the age of 68, I had to think how different the world is in 2008 vs. 1958. Before I move on - our condolences to her family. I always thought it was unspeakably awesome that the name of the court case that declared laws restricting marriage on basis of race unconstitutional was called “Loving v. Virginia.”
Since I count among my neighbors several interracial couples and families, I have been spoiled with an experience that indicates interracial marriage as something that’s somewhat common. As the friend who forwarded me the article said to me over email, I’m nuts if I think that’s the rule across the US. It’s certainly not the case in romance - interracial couples in romance novels are still somewhat rare, though there are more of them of late. One writer of bestselling awesomeness told me recently that many romance writers, including herself, would love to write a romance that crosses racial lines - but those books are difficult to get into publication from established print romance publishers. In the e-format, there’s a more vigorous supply, but then, the “e” in romance is the one area that does tend to push the boundaries of the genre a little bit harder, giving the “nudge nudge” a more diverse meaning. Samhain has an entire section of interracial titles, featuring white heroes and Black heroines, and vice versa—and hero/hero, as well, so clearly someone or many someones are shopping for interracial romance specifically.
On one hand, it’s difficult to ask the right question. Would the presence of an interracial couple stop someone from buying a romance? (Would it stop me? Nope.) Is interracial romance solely the domain - and by domain I mean “located in the bookshop section” - of Black romance, because the minute one half of a protagonist pair is Black, the book moves toward Black Romance as a subgenre marker? Speaking solely for myself, I’m curious why interracial romance appears to be mostly found in epubs, small presses, erotica, or within Black romance publishing lines. Brenda Jackson has written several for Silhouette Desire, but those seem to be an exception among the backlist of series romance - and yet another reason how the dismissed-as-staid category romances can sometimes not just push but shred the envelope of boundaries every now and again like nothing else.
I’m also curious whether it’s a target people shop for, a type of storyline that some really enjoy the same way I am a total and complete sucker for a certain plotlines, including one that is too embarrassing to mention. If people shop deliberately for interracial romances, then why aren’t there more of them in mainstream romance (unless they’re there and my Google-fu has failed me)? Is there a difficult barrier towards publication of a romance that takes place across cultural and racial lines? And what counts as interracial, anyway? Does a Black woman and a Middle Eastern man count as interracial? (This reader thinks so.) Or is “interracial” code for solely white/black combinations? Hell, depending on what anti-Semite you ask, my marriage would be interracial.
Mostly I’m wondering simply why there aren’t more interracial couples in romance. There’s more than a few powerhouse examples in mainstream romance across several genres, so I am curious why there’s not more of it. For example, Ward’s Brotherhood plays with race, and the question’s been asked of her point blank whether the Brothers are Black (her answer was that they are not an identifiable human race so it’s impossible to say). Kleypas’ Mine Till Midnight also crossed a racial line in the historical sense, in that her hero was Rom and the heroine was white - a combination that caused me to question the endurance of their happy ending, given the social prejudice working against them. And someone will hunt me down and kick me in the knees if I don’t mention the multi-book subplot of Brockmann’s Sam & Alyssa. All three examples were holy crapping damn successful. Perhaps the problem is that what I perceive of as “few” needs to be adjusted. Someone else might think that’s plenty.
I’m not so much asking for a list of interracial romances, though feel free to suggest some that you’ve enjoyed, but more of a “Interracial romance: what’s up with that? How come there’s not more of it?” type of random musing. So? Your thought? Ha. I crack me up. I know you have more than one.
Filed: Random Musings, The Link-O-Lator
Tagged: shopping, interracial, harlequin, epubs, contemporary,
Robin said on 05.06.08 at 11:39 PM • [link]
Thanks, Rosyln; your comments make a lot of sense to me. I was especially struck by your point about not taking books for granted, especially books written by black authors about black characters.
Mac said on 05.06.08 at 11:40 PM • [link]
I forgot to mention that my friend is Jewish. (The book is about Irish Tinkers—not strictly “Irish” as we understand the word—and Jews interacting with each other. The publishers keep telling her “We love it! But it’s weird!” So, not picked up yet. Despite nice words from Brink and Oates. Which is baffling and disheartening like crazy. But I do take your point!
See ! See! Sci-fi is a bastion of glorious safety. Sort of. In a way. Kinda. ^____^
Anything that can be done can be done well. My go-to example has been the gross, angry, seeing-red prejudice I developed about white authors writing black characters after reading “Welcome to the World, Baby Girl” by Fannie Flagg—which was then completely dispelled by Anne Rice’s handling of the same material. Say what we will about her, Rice managed to have a black character commit an unconscionable act (maliciously outing a character who was “passing”—thus causing a huge tragedy) while retaining reader sympathy, as opposed to Flagg’s horrific cardboard cutout (similar action). So I had to discard my knee-jerk intolerance for white people writing blacks and accept that it’s all about talent and execution, NOT race.
(For the record, I still love a lot of Flagg’s other works. Heck, most of THAT book was pretty darn good.)
Dyanne Davis said on 05.07.08 at 12:06 AM • [link]
I wanted to join in on this mainly because I’m a writer that writes IR romance as well as AA and paranormal romance. I also have many friends who write some IR romances. And note that I said some. We are not defined by one genre.
I can tell you that the romance is the main focus in my stories. I have written stories that included a wm, a Hispanic male, an Asian male and two Pakistani males. Only in my first book was race the issue. I don’t write how to books I write romance and there are a lot of extremely talented writers out there that write likewise. The need for an expanded variety is ever increasing to reflect the needs of society. Women are now in more interracial relationships than ever before and they want stories that reflect that very important aspect of their lives. I am extremely grateful that readers have found me and my books.
Regardless of what sub genre my books fall into as long as it’s a romance that’s what will be at the front and center.
Dyanne Davis
Jeanne Barrack said on 05.07.08 at 12:07 AM • [link]
re. Jewish heroes and heroines in Romance and chick lit:
The Dominant Blonde by Alisa Kwitney (chick lit with a strong romance thread)
>Thinking that she’s finally gotten things right romantically when her boyfriend of four months takes her to a tiny Caribbean island for a scuba-diving vacation, New Yorker Lydia Gold ends up on an emotional roller coaster when her intended apparently drowns, her family’s business account simultaneously turns up $3 million short, and her stint in a recompression chamber with the sexy diving instructor has unexpectedly romantic results. A jigsaw puzzle plot that comes together in bits and pieces combines with a pair of likable protagonists and a host of quirky secondary characters to produce a lively, darkly humorous, occasionally violent romp that is more fiction than romance. Nevertheless, the skillful handling of the romantic relationship, the main characters’ emotional development, and the satisfactory ending will appeal to fans who like their romances laced with satire and a mainstream flair. Kwitney (Till the Fat Lady Sings) lives in New York City.
< My Comment: I read all of the customer reviews and my comment is this: A nice Jewish girl (as we're so often called)
loses her nice Jewish fiance, Abe - can we get more stereotypical?
and verys hrtlythereafter falls for a hunky Irish man - Now, in not one of the 43 Amazon reviews was it even mentioned that our heroine is Jewish - to me, this is typical of chick lit and one reason why I tend to discount it when I want a Jewish herpine who is Jewish.
Good in Bed by Jennifer Weiner: ditto -The book is out of print
Fallen From Grace by Laura Leone: Jewish heroine
>
>Ms. Leone has the most success with main character Ryan, who although perfect looking and perfect in temperment, has an unusual profession and personal history. She falls painfully flat, however, with the female protagonist—Sara is acutely one dimensional and unbelievable as a Jewish novelist in her mid-thirties. I can’t figure out why this would present a problem to the author, as she is apparently writing about someone quite similar to herself and this can’t be very difficult and yet Sara is far less fully developed than Ryan, and it’s not possible to really care about this character or worry if she and Ryan will get together at the end.<< Thus far, this is the only review that even mentions that the Heroine is Jewish and as can be seen, the response is negative. two other reviews mention that the character is Jewish one positive, one not. Overall, the story sounds interesting and I might read this one
Bed of Spices by Barbara Samuel: Jewish hero and heroine! Out of print (1998) and too bad because this is THE book I would buy
Crooked Hearts by Patricia Gaffney: Jewish hero I wrote to her about this book to ask her why she decided to have Jewish characters. She was very gracious and said becuase the subject interested her.
I know there are more, but I can’t think of them now. - There are very few more, and perhaps I should have been even more specific - I’d like to see Jewish romance h/h that do find partners from their own backgrounds fascinating and sexy.
There are some, I know - I spent a long, long time looking for them. I found that most are out of print now or are mainstream. A handful among the majority of stories that have Christian characters.
There are more books coming out and thanks for those who mentioned them.
Laura Vivanco said on 05.07.08 at 12:24 AM • [link]
The discussion about the lack of Jewish characters had me thinking that I was sure there had been a thread on here about this not so long ago. So I double-checked, and indeed there was. It’s here. I managed to get hold of one of the books mentioned on that list, Carola Dunn’s Miss Jacobson’s Journey as an ebook. There’s inter-racial attraction, though I won’t say more than that for fear it would be a spoiler (the heroine is on her journey with two attractive men and it’s a trad Regency, so there’s no possibility of a threesome).
Suze said on 05.07.08 at 12:27 AM • [link]
Yes, that’s what I was trying to say, in my post-lunch haze.
And now, to contradict myself, it doesn’t just come down to writing skill, and the technical construction of the story. A story can be completely inauthentic shyte and still be engaging, like J.R. Ward. Those Lover books make me groahn ouht louhd, often, yet I still enjoy them. And other, better-constructed books, aren’t as fun to read.
I’ve wondered, when reading a Kathleen Eagle novel, if I buy the story (stories) because she’s executed them well, or if I assume they’re true-to-life because she’s a white girl married to a native. Does it colour my acceptance of the story because I know that about her?
In contrast, I started a Jade Lee novel (Asian author writing Asian characters), and didn’t finish it because something about the style was off-putting. It was long enough ago that I’d have to re-read it to analyze what I didn’t like about it. I remember that I was intrigued by the story, but the execution left me cold. (Sorry, Jade) In the end, I just didn’t care about the people, and therefore didn’t care about the story.
And here I go, meandering again.
The Vixenne (aka Kymberlyn Reed) said on 05.07.08 at 12:35 AM • [link]
Savannah makes a great point, and one that I agree with totally. Her book is set in a southern town in 1968—not exactly the height of enlightenment when it came to racial issues—and there as a reader I would expect race to play an important part of the story. If someone wrote a fictionalized version of Loving v. Virginia (RIP Mildred Loving), I already know race is going to be a big part of the overall story. My thing is, and again I speak from a LOT of personal experience—that in contemporary 2008 cosmopolitan areas, race isn’t always the big elephant in the room and it’s a little maddening for the big publishers to assume the ONLY type of IRs that will sell are those which are race-driven. I’m not in denial or anything because there will always be idiots who think it’s their god-given duty to stick their noses in grown folks’ business, but not every book has to bash a reader over the head with how “hard” being in an IR can be. Couples are couples and every couple has things they deal with everyday beyond race, and I for one want to see more mainstream IR romances that deal with these various issues because they’re just as valid.
One thing I love about the e-book and smaller presses is that they think outside the box and it has been successful. At the risk of big celestial choirs in the background, those of us in the publishing industry are in some ways changing ingrained attitudes, and this is just one more ingrained attitude that needs to go the way of the dodo. For the longest time, big publishers believe that black people didn’t read (I guess we didn’t write either so Alice Walker, Toni Morrison and James Baldwin were white people with really dark tans). The overwhelming success of Terry McMillan (who was very popular long before the rest of the world figured out what time it was) showed NY that not only do black people read, but they’ll spend a LOT of money on books with characters who look like them—even though romance readers of color were spending major bucks on books with characters who DIDN’T look like them (go figure).
Bottom line is this: I want to see diversity in my reading material. I want to see Brenda Jackson, Roz Holcomb and Kelley Nyrae right next to Nora Roberts, Danielle Steel and Christine Feehan. Why? Because Jackson, Holcomb and Nyrae and others I love have just as much drive, passion and talent as those three and they deserve a fair shot to prove it.
Randi said on 05.07.08 at 01:12 AM • [link]
Shayne: ah! Ok. I felt like maybe I was getting your message wrong, but the way I was reading it made it seem like you were saying this was the wrong forum for this discussion. I get that it was the opposite. Sorry for the misapprehension!
Jocelynnesimone: Thanks for the compliment! I often feel like a total nit on the interwebs, especially in this company, as everyone is so freakin succinct and witty, so you just made my day! ;)
As an aside: The romance section at my B&N;in Plymouth Meeting, PA, has, oh what do you call it, um…highlighted books (where they showcase books at the end of the bookshelf-what’s that called and where did my brain go?) from AA authors in front of the romance section. Additionally, I have found romance, mostly erotica, in the general fiction shelves (which is where the AA romances are). Essentially, yay for AA authors being showcased and boo for how things are shelved at B&N;. Srsly. Srsly.
Trumystique said on 05.07.08 at 02:15 AM • [link]
Sorry in advance for the long post.
No I am not saying that the romance has failed to do its job if it hasn’t made you question race privilege in this country. Rather, I am saying that many people on this thread said they wouldn’t read a romance if it dealt with issues of race. Several posters went out of their way to say that the reason they have never read an interracial romance or multicultural romance was because they were not sure they could “relate†to the characters. My point is that the two are inextricably linked. You cant separate the fact that 2 people from different racial backgrounds are falling in love. If you say are writing about a black woman and a white man falling in love you are writing about just that. The story wouldn’t be the same if you were writing about a different couple. Yes, there are absolutely universal themes about falling in love. But if you are writing about two distinct characters then you need to flesh them out with thoughts, feelings and motivations. One couple will have a story in which how they deal with race, their childhood, work pressure is different from another couple.
To say it another way- I am a woman of color who grew up in a privileged community in the Northeast. If you want to write a story about me then at every moment you will be trying to capture what I as a well educated, economically privileged woman of color has experienced. If I fall in love with a college educated West Coast Asian guy ( who is also the oldest son) who works with me- then the story written about this pairing has to be specific. It has to take into account the challenges that face us as we fall in love. It might be that race is an issue in our relationship. It may be that race isn’t an issue but class could be an issue if say he doesn’t have a graduate degree. Or it could be that I work too much or he is feeling pressured to marry an Asian girl or instead of living his dream he is feeling pressured to run the family business. It could be a whole host of issues with just one of them being race. Race is an important issue.Whether you (general you) get to ignore race in your everday life does not negate the influence it has in the lives of millions of other people. In my life race is an important issue that is sometimes mitigated by my age, my gender, my class, my educational status and where I live in time and place.
What I heard is that some of the people on this thread would be afraid to read my romance( I’m not a writer- this is an example)because they were afraid that they would be preached at, that they wouldn’t have anything to relate to in this romantic story. Also a few authors chimed in to say that they couldn’t write a compelling interracial romance because people would call them out for being inaccurate, racist or classist.
So what annoys me here is this. Why is the assumption that the story above would be whiny or preachy? Why is the assumption that if the narrative deals with race and love in this country with these two particular people than it wouldn’t be a good romance?
So I can only conclude that the reason that several on this thread said they wouldn’t or don’t read interracial romance is because they deem these unsafe. Unsafe because there is too much race talk, that they might be forced to examine their privilege. Unsafe because there is too much preaching. Unsafe because there is too much anger, whining about inequality or whatever it is that annoys white people when people of other racial backgrounds talk about race.
Okay so you are saying that you have a narrow definition of what is not acceptable reading ( violent bigotry etc). But what I read from others is that “not acceptable reading†could include anything that had to do with interracial romance especially any romance dealing with black folk. The sense was that they couldn’t “relate” if the topic had anything to do with people of different racial backgrounds falling in love. So yes on so many levels I have problems with that. And I suspect the reason they don’t think they have anything they could “relate†to is because they are imagining certain racial archetypes and stereotypes. And yes many of those archetypes are exoticized and fetishized and Other-ed. And its those safer and fetishized images that make it into the romance mainstream ( noble savage Native American, martial arts practicing Asian). And I argue that this country is so incredibly racist that there aren’t any safe depictions of black folk. As a result the kneejerk reaction of many of the folk who don’t read “those books†is they cant possibly understand how they could relate to a hostile and oversexed black woman or whatever the prevailing negative stereotype is held about black men and women (or other racial subgroups).
The Vixenne (aka Kymberlyn Reed) said on 05.07.08 at 02:37 AM • [link]
Race is, whether we like it or not, is an important issue, and in no way would I dismiss a book for dealing with it. HOWEVER, and I will go to bat for this, it is not the ONLY issue facing IR couples and people of color in general, that’s really all I’m saying here. I don’t know about the other women in here who have this ridiculous notion that because the h/h have dark skin, slanted eyes, etc. they can’t relate to the need to find love and acceptance. That’s a huge crock and I’m so not buying it. Like you, I think a great deal of the resistance has to do with ingrained stereotypes obviously media-driven (if people wouldn’t get their ideas about race from Faux News and from BET, the intelligence quotient would go up a thousand-fold). I’ve read quite a bit of chick-lit in the past, but not for one second do I believe that every white single female is promiscuous, shallow, overly obsessed with their bodies, materialistic and looking for an MRS degree with at least five zeros attached.
You made cited a great example of a fictional romance book in which your Asian male counterpart may not be from the same class as you. He might be working-class and a disappointment to his family who wanted him to be a doctor. So, as an author are you going to spend two-hundred plus pages on the fact that his eyes slant and yours don’t or are you going to tell how a well-educated and well-to-do black woman from a notable family deals with falling in love with a man who isn’t of her race but her class? Sure, the race thing can be mentioned—his family would probably be appalled—but it doesn’t have to be the entire focus of the book. Frankly, as a reader I’d be more interested in how an author would deal with the class and education divide. Why? Because more black women are in college and in the professional arena than black men. How do we deal with that? For that matter, there are a lot of latino women who are struggling with issues of identity because they want more than to be a traditional wife and mother and in some families their desire for higher education often brings conflict. Those are stories that I think women of all backgrounds can relate to and would want to read about.
I don’t negate race, nor do I allow it to dictate my life. Books that reflect that worldview are not unrealistic in the least. If anything, I think I would just like to see a balance and less assumption as to what an IR book is supposed to be.
Trumystique said on 05.07.08 at 03:12 AM • [link]
I get that its not the only issue. Lets introduce another couple. A black woman who is a doctor and has been holding out for her King. But she spends so much time at the hospital and there is this really cute Indian Radiologist. He might be really digging her but his parents are really traditional and they may date but he may never tell his parents about her. Race could be a huge issue for a this couple and that would be a perfectly viable and valid romantic plot.
So in interracial romance/ multicultural romance as a genre you could have instances where race IS and IS NOT an issue. But that would depend on the story and characters. But I am reacting to all those on this thread that said they couldnt “relate”. And often the reason is because people in this country live segregated lives and frequently learn about other racial and ethnic groups through popular media at the worst and maybe in the best scenario (for most people) at work. Rarely do most Americans have deep and meaningful relationships with people of other races- let alone have meaningful discussion about race and privilege within those relationships. ( And before you jump in to say “I have black/white/asian/indian/afrolatino/anglolatino friends” sociological and demographic research says you are in the minority.
Angela said on 05.07.08 at 03:23 AM • [link]
Ah Laura, exactly what I said on my blog. The SBs and Bam and Sybil and the ladies at Dear Author have tremendous clout (an example, which I used: the quote from DA.com on Meljean Brook’s upcoming release. When was the last time a website got cover quote on a romance author’s book?)—I think a few of you guys single-handed sold Sherry Thomas, Meredith Duran and Joanna Bourne’s debut novels (of course, the books were excellent, but still—the buzz was powerful). Sometimes information coming from the horse’s mout (i.e. black readers and writers) isn’t as effective as people on the “other side.”
Jeanne Barrack said on 05.07.08 at 04:15 AM • [link]
The discussion about the lack of Jewish characters had me thinking that I was sure there had been a thread on here about this not so long ago. So I double-checked, and indeed there was. It’s here. I managed to get hold of one of the books mentioned on that list, Carola Dunn’s Miss Jacobson’s Journey as an ebook. There’s inter-racial attraction, though I won’t say more than that for fear it would be a spoiler (the heroine is on her journey with two attractive men and it’s a trad Regency, so there’s no possibility of a threesome).
THANK YOU!
Although many of them are familiar to me and I have read them, there were a few that weren’t and are romances (and erotic ones, too!)
And since folks were pimping ;~D:
I have a paranormal, historiecal, erotic m/m romance coming out this spring from Loose Id and my characters are Jewish.
Great discussion in all areas.
Joanne Merriam said on 05.07.08 at 04:19 AM • [link]
Funny you should say this. There’s actually a debate about Tolkein’s racism - that his various “races” (hobbits, elves, orcs, Ents, etc.) were thinly veiled racist stereotypes (eg. hobbits are really the Irish), and, also, that by presenting them as homogeneous (all hobbits are good, all orcs are evil, all Ents are slow, etc.) he was encouraging an essentially racist attitude of judging people primarily by the group they belong to. Sort of like Speilberg’s even-less-thinly veiled racist caricatures in The Phantom Menace.
Seressia said on 05.07.08 at 04:43 AM • [link]
Ah yes, Jay-Jay—I mean, Jar-Jar. I never saw another Star Wars movie again.
Susan Lyons said on 05.07.08 at 04:59 AM • [link]
Re Indian - as in Indo-American, not Native American -
check out Anjali Banerjee and Monica Pradhan. I enjoy their writing.
And so, this group has talked about African-American/black and Jewish. Who are people’s favorite Latino/Latina and Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Vietnames etc./American authors? I’ve read some books from these cultures and would love to discover more.
Suze said on 05.07.08 at 05:25 AM • [link]
So, I was surfing about and stopped by Scott Adams’ blog, and read the 200+ comments under his post in which he predicted that McCain will win the US election because of democrats imploding (or something, I got distracted), and was ...stunned, is the word, at all of the comments who said that they won’t vote for Obama NOT because they’re racist (and they’re darned tired of being accused of racism just because they don’t tow the politically correct line) but because Obama is a far-left socialist who is going to destroy America by blowing the treasury on welfare so that the useless bums can get fat off of the non-racists’ hard work. &tc;. Yes, indeed, a far-left socialist.
When my brain got over being boggled, I thought back to this also-lengthy comment listing, and how rational it all is. Statements are backed up with examples, interpretations, explanations. Conversations contain meaningful information, and contrary positions are read and understood, if not agreed with. I don’t see any statements implying that “this is what’s what, and that’s that, and don’t try to change my mind, mofos!”
Readers of the romance, what superior logic we possess.
Robin said on 05.07.08 at 05:34 AM • [link]
This reminds me of one of my cousins, who desperately tried to convince me that Kerry was a communist who was plotting with the Democrats to convert the country to socialism once he was elected.
Angela said on 05.07.08 at 06:05 AM • [link]
Susan, I profiled a number of non-black/non-white authors on my blog.
snarkhunter said on 05.07.08 at 06:10 AM • [link]
Actually, I think the hobbits are the English, not the Irish. The rural English—Tolkein is nostalgically eulogizing a certain image of England throughout LoTR.
But, yeah. Let’s not forget his “Eastern” men who fight for Sauron…or C.S. Lewis’s Telemarians…very, very thinly veiled Muslim Arabs.
Madeleine said on 05.07.08 at 06:55 AM • [link]
Dude, if Obama were a far-left socialist I would actually vote for him. He isn’t. But OH, how I wish he were.
And. I’m pretty sure Spielberg didn’t direct The Phantom Menace. He did direct Amistad - which is kind of like the second coming of Stanley Kramer, honestly. But Star Wars is def. George Lucas.
On an ON-TOPIC note, I want to thank people who’ve put lists together. One of the things that stops me (I’m white - surprise!) from reading (fiction) in the African American section is that I feel like by labeling it “African American fiction” I’m being told not to read it because I don’t fit the category. It’s honestly the label because some of my best friends - uh, I mean, I read black authors in other “categories”. But those categories are something broad like literary fiction, or they’re nonfiction like philosophy. I guess literature is kind of a “Dead White Men” category, though.
There’s probably a really interesting critical race theory paper on this. (I’m a philosophy/English double major. I think of these things)
Jana said on 05.07.08 at 08:11 AM • [link]
ITA. I live in a mostly-black area of a city and the library has a great selection of black romances and AA fiction in general but I always feel really uncomfortable standing there flipping through them. I worried that people would think I was objectifying blacks by reading black romance when I’m so obviously white. Like I had a fetish or was getting off on reading about black people or buying into old stereotypes about penis size and blacks as hypersexual, when what I actually wanted was a new romance somewhere other than 1815 England.
Maybe I shouldn’t worry about this, but I do… I don’t want to offend the librarians or the other patrons. Thank god we just got a self-checkout!
AgTigress said on 05.07.08 at 10:34 AM • [link]
Snarkhunter is right. The ‘Shire’ and all its appurtenances are a Golden Age vision of medieval ENGLAND; it is the pernicious ‘Merrie England’ myth, and it is disturbingly close to the Nazi concept of the Germanic Heimat.
Julie Leto said on 05.07.08 at 12:34 PM • [link]
Definitely George Lucas, not Speilberg. I was certainly struck and disappointed by the inclusion of Jar-Jar, but I don’t really think Lucas “meant” for it to be racist. I really don’t. Of course, I don’t consider the movies 1, 2 or 3 to be worth much in many ways…don’t get me started!
I just prefer to think about Billy Dee Williams as Lando Calrissian. Hot, roguish, hot, good-hearted, hot, brave…and did I mention hot?
Sorry…the Star Wars stuff always gets me going!
Joanne Merriam said on 05.07.08 at 12:49 PM • [link]
Oh God, I fail at science fiction. Sorry, I don’t know why I said Spielberg. And yes, the Hobbits are English. I can only say I was really tired last night.
Nanny said on 05.07.08 at 01:17 PM • [link]
Annnnnnnd…. Godwin’s Law!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law)
word: about34
It was about 1934 when Hitler became Fuhrer of Germany!
Mala said on 05.07.08 at 01:27 PM • [link]
Thanks for the recs, Susan Lyons. I’ll definitely have to check those authors out… and then cross my fingers and pray that I don’t get demoralized about my own WIP. I hate that feeling of “Oh, well Author X wrote this, so now I can’t.” Indian women’s fiction isn’t quite widespread enough for certain tropes to be an indicator of genre…or has it? Hmmm.
robinb said on 05.07.08 at 03:53 PM • [link]
Julie Leto! I think we’re soulmates. :)
Wirdald said on 05.07.08 at 04:15 PM • [link]
Suze said:
So true, so true. ;-)
And on another note—Darn you! Darn you all to heck! Every blasted time I glance at (/read voraciously) SBTB I end up with another Post-It covered with titles and authors names written in such tiny print that I end up having to abbreviate both, and then am left checking B&N;.com for author “BR,” title “Du. that LM” of “tDSB.” Someday I’ll come up with a personal shorthand I can actually understand.
snarkhunter said on 05.07.08 at 04:16 PM • [link]
I completely agree with Jana and Madeline. Although, for me, it’s that I feel like I must look like I’m trying to prove my liberal cred—look how “enlightened” I am, that I’m reading AA romance! I’m ashamed that that even enters my head, but there you have it. It’s this whole tangle with appropriation and liberal guilt and ... argh.
That said, I look forward to expanding my tastes a little bit. Rosalyn Holcomb’s Rockstar sounds pretty cool, and I hope I can find it. However, I’m not sure I’m going to have the guts to read Big Spankable Asses in public. God, what a horrible title.
Roslyn Holcomb said on 05.07.08 at 04:28 PM • [link]
I never considered that one. That must be weird, but I can certainly understand where you’re coming from. That would freak me the hell out, too.
Seressia Glass said on 05.07.08 at 04:31 PM • [link]
General response: do you worry about offending literary snobs? What’s your response when people look cross-eyed at you for reading “trashy books”? The response should be the same: “I like to read good books by good authors.”
human98: oh, the irony…
Viola said on 05.07.08 at 04:41 PM • [link]
Yes, the title is embarassing. But I swear it is SO worth it. At the Romance Slam Jam in Chicago last week, it was the holy grail of books. If you had a copy, you held it close and snarled at anyone that dared to ask to even breath on it.
Viola said on 05.07.08 at 05:20 PM • [link]
breathe, not breath. *sigh*
I’m at work with an uncooperative computer. *sigh* Sawwy.
Marcella said on 05.07.08 at 05:48 PM • [link]
I have to say, I am so totally impressed with this too.
And I really want to commend Roslyn. I agree with every word you wrote and I am blown away by your honesty and your courage to keep—saying—it. I got it. I totally got it.
Barbara Karmazin said on 05.07.08 at 05:56 PM • [link]
Nobody cares what you read. Just pick out the books you want and stop obsessing over what anyone thinks. Jeesh.
BTW: I recommend Beverly Jenkins. Her AA Romance books are fabulous.
Barbara Karmazin
http://www.sff.net/people/selkiewife
Barbara Karmazin said on 05.07.08 at 06:06 PM • [link]
My apologies.
That didn’t come out right. What I was trying to say was: You’re in a bookstore. The majority of people in a bookstore are busying looking for books, not watching you to see what you’re buying. So instead of getting paranoid because you’re browsing in the AA section of the bookstore, simply pick out the books that catch your interest and buy them. That’s how I discover new authors.
And yes, I do recommend Beverly Jenkins. Her AA Romances are fabulous.
Barbara Karmazin
http://www.sff.net/people/selkiewife
Barbara Karmazin said on 05.07.08 at 06:30 PM • [link]
Sigh. Another correction.
I meant to say. The majority of people in a bookstore are busy looking for books…not
My brain is mush today. My apologies for the typo also.
Barbara Karmazin
Barbara Karmazin said on 05.07.08 at 06:34 PM • [link]
Sigh. Another correction.
I meant to say. The majority of people in a bookstore are busy looking for books…not
My brain is mush today. My apologies for this typo.
Barbara Karmazin
Ree aka Shiree McCarver said on 05.07.08 at 06:37 PM • [link]
I believe when it comes to racial issues there is too much overthinking going on in general. If we as races stop apologizing for the past maybe we can move forward as a whole. I for one accepted the apologies years ago. Only you, as a person can choose to hold on to the shame or anger for the mistakes of the past.
Trust me when I say, Never have I once went to the Historical Romance, Mainstream, New Releases, Manga and wondered what people of the dominate race of that section thought of me. I am a Black female, I’m also okay with that terminology along with the current popular term African American.
For years we, Black women, have been reading books about Caucasion women, by Caucasion women getting all the good things in life. If you see a Black Women in those sections did you have the same thought process? Probably not, so there is no reason to think we are putting all that thought as to what you are doing in the AA sections. *lol*
In the end we are just like you, women, we love, cry, have children or choose not to, have careers or choose to be housewives. We argue with our husbands and lovers, makeup sex is the best. Just because history don’t mention us at every turn doesn’t mean we weren’t there having babies, raising families, working, struggling to make ends meet just like your families history.
The only difference if you have to dig a little deeper and have a bigger imaginations, but you know what I was Scarlett O’Hara (even thought I didn’t like her character) but I was her sweeping down those stairs telling Rhett I didn’t give a damn, when I know I did because he was hot. *giggle* Do you think in my head Scarlett was this beautiful White Southern Bell? No, she was me. Don’t cheat yourself by not getting to mentally be Chaquita Jones from Harlem or Dr. Fay Johnson in upperside Atlanta, because you wondering if someone is thinking about you at all.
Trust me, if everyone don’t know this by experience, my experience being mostly, porn. All black men don’t have big penis. I’ve seen more then slept with mind you, but all Asian men aren’t short with small penis, nor are all white men small with huge testes. You get my drift. With diverse DVD’s there is no reason for this question about penis sizes to still be a question. You curious about how the other half do it, check it out, it’s all done the same.
With this said, not once have I saw a white woman in the African American section and wondered about all these phobias you listed. I’m so busy doing my own thing, I probably didn’t even notice what section you were in at all. But when I happen to be in any section including African American, with who ever is standing there I may ask if they recommended anything or give recommendations of books I have read.
So see, just like this subject on this diverse forum opened up an opportunity to nip these sterotypical feelings once and for all. At least among us here and hopefully you will take away this rippling effect.
If I see a white woman in the AA section, and thought anything at all I would see you as beeing cool and diverse and most of all approachable. I would think you wouldn’t look at me as if I was about to take your purse, ask you for money, or cuss you out when I walked up to you and casualy say, “Hello, does anything look good?” and conversate like two women with a common interest. A darn good read.
Through reading, I’ve been Caucasion, Asian, Indian, Jewish,...ect… You are not doing your ability to dream any favors by the limitations you mentally put on yourself by not stepping in the mental shoes of a character of a different race. What better way to live vicariously as a black woman then reading a book about one and written by one. That is how I feel when I read books where women don’t look or think like me. Isn’t that what fiction is all about? To make you for once, not be…just you?
Ree
Suze said on 05.07.08 at 07:17 PM • [link]
Hm. Books I’m embarrassed to be caught reading. I read Kerrelyn Sparks How to Marry a Millionaire Vampire. NOT in public. It wasn’t terrible, and was in fact more entertaining than a lot of what I’d read around that time, but DAMNED if I was going to be seen reading it in the staff lounge at work.
They recently experimented in our (only) local bookstore with having the erotica at the start of the romance section, but they’ve lately moved it back to be at the front of the general fiction section. If I’m expecting a new release by an erotica author I like, I’ll gird my loins to go check it out, but I’m mostly embarrassed to be seen looking at the erotica. Which irks me, because I don’t want to be as prudish as I evidently am.
We don’t have a Blacks Only section in our pitifully small bookstore (not sure if it’s different in the big cities in Canada), so I haven’t had to face that particular social challenge. I did get challenged by a young lady at work, when I asked her to show ID before I would give her what she was asking for (privacy laws). She said, are you asking me that because I’m brown?
No. I ask everybody I don’t recognize, because I’m required to by law, and I don’t remember faces very well. It upset and shocked me, and I sputtered incoherently in response. But I couldn’t really take it personally, because she was young and clearly getting active in taking pride in her heritage. Or she was getting caught up in the Brown Nation (gang made up of Indian, Pakistani, and/or middle eastern thugs), but that’s a whole other thing.
I’m pondering the differences between bigotry and prejudice, the latter of which I define as assumptions I make about people based on their ethnicity, and don’t take the time to check. I think it was Trevallian who wrote that stereotypes are usually true when describing general populations, if not individuals within that population.
So, when I was talking about chakras with an Indian friend, and was totally surprised when she didn’t know anything about it, I was prejudiced, because I assumed that all Indians know about chakras. It led us into a discussion about the differences in the actuality of our cultures versus stereotypes, which was interesting and good for us, and the outcome is that now I can’t admit to reading Deepak Chopra around her because she thinks that he’s got a successful racket going on to sucker gullible white folks.
(She was surprised to learn that most blond kids grow up to have brown hair, unless they dye it.)
And now I’ve gone totally off topic, and should probably get back to work.
Robin said on 05.07.08 at 08:30 PM • [link]
I don’t know if I can explain what I mean clearly, but I’m going to try.
Obviously race—be it artificial, unreal, a myth, or a tool of economic domination (i.e. “The Invention of the White Race”—great book, IMO)—matters to us or we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And some of what has been said during this and other conversations on this topic goes along the lines of, “white readers and authors possess a privilege that they are often unaware of, which makes them insensitive to the challenges faced by black authors and AA/IR Romance.” Which strikes me as a call to be more self-conscious and more aware, which can also mean more sensitive to a situation that already has an incredible amount of exposed nerve-type sensitivity attached to it.
But if a white reader confesses her hypersensitivity—that she is afraid of offending black readers—then there’s an implication that that’s silly. If there were parity between offending a literary snob and offending a black author or reader, this sensitivity wouldn’t exist to begin with. But it does, and it creates a sort of double bind, where on the one hand white readers are told they’re not sensitive enough to the position of black authors and AA/IR Romance, but if they internalize a hypersensitivity for whatever reason, then that’s wrong, too. And it may be unwarranted (aren’t so many of our hypersensitivities). But in a conversation where people are struggling all over the place to refrain from stepping on someone else’s toes, or stepping over someone else completely, I understand the hypersensitivity, where it comes from, and how difficult the bind is.
Truly, in perfect honesty, sometimes it looks like white readers can’t win for trying: if we don’t read AA/IR Romance, it’s because we’re racially insensitive, and if we do read it but don’t like what we read, we’re racially insensitive, and then if we read some, perhaps we’re just pandering, and if we don’t like some, it’s because we just don’t get it, or we’re racially insensitive . . . . I don’t struggle with these issues personally because I’m not in conflict about what I read and what I like, but I really understand how others feel a little like they’re trapped regardless of where they are, even though I know that no one’s trying to make them feel that way, and that the position AA authors is in IS incredibly unfair and discriminatory. And even as I understand that black authors feel the same double bind when they try to explain their position and the effect of the discriminatory treatment. I realize that such sensitivity on the part of white readers must seem a bit petty (i.e. we already have the privilege and now we want to claim the sensitivity??). But it’s there, nonetheless.
NOT that this is anyone’s fault; it’s just, IMO, a side effect of this incredible hypersensitivity we have around race and the imperfect ways we’re trying to negotiate these issues. We all say that race shouldn’t matter, but we all know it does, and the very deliberateness of the way we’re trying to get integration and equity for AA/IR Romance illustrates that. Hopefully someday it won’t matter, but as long as it does, people are more likely to have particularly areas of ultra-sensitive reactions that may not be logical or desirable, but are, IMO, inevitable and hopefully transient.
Nadia said on 05.07.08 at 08:33 PM • [link]
Has anyone mentioned Natalie Dunbar yet? She had a couple books in the Bombshell line. I’ve read “Model Spy” but haven’t yet put hands on her other. In fact, there are several Bombshells off the top of my head where the heroine was non-Caucasion (although I don’t think the author is): three of Cindy Dees’ Medusas (although one hasn’t had her story yet), Maureen Tan’s “A Perfect Cover”, Crystal Green’s “Baited.”
Considering the premise of the Bombshell line was focus on the heroine’s journey (and of course, her general bad-assedness!), the ethnicity/race in the above books was generally brought in as an issue when it was part of her tale. The Tan book focuses on the heroine’s ties the Vietnamese immigrant community and investigating a crime therein, so yes, it was part of the plot. But in Dunbar’s “Model Spy” book, the plot points were more universal. Our spy-babe is a recovering addict working undercover, trying to do her job but faced with a choice between the stable detective or the exciting playboy with the fast lifestyle. Some of you have been refuting the “relatability” comments about reading AA or other non-Caucasian stories, and here is a prime example of your claims. Why would it be any more relatable if our model-turned-spy were white? Unless, of course, you are a white model-turned-spy.
I do think it would be better to have the AA romances shelved in with the genre as a whole, it certainly would bring the books to my attention. I tend to pick new authors up at the UBS (especially Half-Price Books clearance rack), and if I like them, glom them until I’ve covered their entire backlist. If they aren’t in front of my face when I’m rack-surfing, I’ll likely never get to them because the TBR pile on authors I’ve already discovered never seems to get any smaller.
hours72: If there were 72 hours in the day, I could finish that pile of books.
Savannah J. Frierson said on 05.07.08 at 09:14 PM • [link]
Natalie Dunbar is a black woman, and she’s very nice. I met her at the Romance Slam Jam last week and she gave me some very beneficial advice.
I think the general issue is, however, that universality is coded as “white”, which is part and parcel to the privilege that white people have in this society. As others have said, I as a black woman don’t look odd thumbing through “mainstream” romances, so why should a white woman look odd if she’s thumbing through multicultural romances written by authors of color? Some of the biggest benefactors of black artists during the Harlem Renaissance were white people. So many creative writing teachers say the more specific a writer gets, the more universal the story becomes. THE KITE RUNNER is written by an Afghani man, but I really appreciated reading that story. TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD is told through the lenses of a young white girl in the 1940s. I’m certainly not a young white girl in the 1940s. ENCHANTED by Elizabeth Lowell is one of my favorite romances, but so is THE COLOR OF LOVE by Sandra Kitt. And anything written by Beverly Jenkins is on my TBR list. Each story is specific, but there is a universality that I responded to.
There’s still that “THEM” v. “US” thing going on even in this discussion, a separatedness that is a consequence of a social construct that still applies and that science is still trying to find biological evidence with which to support it. Being honest means having to discuss some difficulties, and yeah, they might even come up in the romances, particularly IR. But is not the ultimate goal of a romance is an emotionally satisfying ending? Who sad a reader can’t expand her mind as she goes on that journey too?
Savannah
Mac said on 05.07.08 at 09:51 PM • [link]
I have to admit that I have seen some behavior in the AA section of places that I was not too approving of—yes, there was a definite vibe of “What does that [insert non-AA] person think they’re doing here?” I’ve seen the same vibe in a hip-hop club. And in the Gospel choir my first month of college. It wasn’t pretty.
This comes from a lot of sources, primarily the historical tendency of mainstream U.S. culture to lift/pinch/borrow/outright steal certain creative elements from AA culture without giving credit (or cash) where credit was due. (e.g. This was downright systematiic in the music industry relatively recently—say a generation ago.) So the bitterness is rather instinctive and understandable. But it doesn’t help anything.
I think that the onus is not only on white readers to branch out fearlessly, but on AA shoppers to also curb some of our suspicions—especially of strangers we know nothing about. (It’s different when you’re interacting with a friend or acquaintence whom you KNOW is fetishizing you. Not acceptable, of course. So cut your eyes freely. I shall do the same.)
What I’m saying is, 1. I don’t think the white readers on this board are imagining things (although I don’t think it’s anywhere near universal, and definitely not a majority reaction…really, most people are just minding their business. LOLOL—And if you exhibit too much nervousness, THAT can be offensive—“What do you think we’re going to do??!” This sucks, doesn’t it? It’s a minefield! Yikes. :-D) and 2. we can all work together for this; we all have something to contribute to the… smoothing of the atmosphere.
I’ve felt like a big weird otaku in Books Kunokiniya, but I was never made to feel uncomfortable there—Japanese patrons and staff always seemed pleased that an outsider was showing interest in their culture. I’d like to spread that attitude.
Seressia Glass said on 05.07.08 at 11:14 PM • [link]
But if a white reader confesses her hypersensitivity -- that she is afraid of offending black readers -- then there's an implication that that's silly.I don’t think it’s silly and I certainly didn’t imply that in my post. Now if I’d replied with “welcome to my world” that would have been flip and dismissive.
When you’re out of your element you have three choices: You either ignore it, deal with it, or let it rule you. As a black professional woman, and a woman with some interesting friends and hobbies, I’m often the only black person in a group at any given time. At least once a week if not more. I could be hypersensitive about it, but mostly I acknowledge it and do what I came there for—whether that’s jamming to Disturbed, attending a pagan festival, strolling a comic book store, or browsing the erotica section.
I was the only black chick at a Dierks Bentley concert (he’s country) and yeah some of the girls looked at me cross-eyed. I didn’t give a damn. I came, I had fun, I bought the t-shirt. Sure I could have let it freak me out, but why give them that victory? If I had told my (white) friends “no, I’m not going—it’s gonna be nothin’ but white folks!” I would have missed out on a fantastic experience. Same as when I went to the Metallica/Korn/System of a Down concert a few years back, or Def Leppard back in the early 90’s.
I don’t think how a person feels is silly. It’s valid for them. But I know I’ve had to learn to deal with being in a place where “my kind” shouldn’t be. I don’t think it’s too much to ask the same of others.
Of course, you can just go to amazon.com and go “Books > Romance > Multicultural” to bring up an extensive list of AA books. Once there you can type “interracial” to narrow to just those books and use the Look Inside feature to browse in the comfort of your own computer..
Laura Vivanco said on 05.07.08 at 11:52 PM • [link]
if a white reader confesses her hypersensitivity—that she is afraid of offending black readers—then there’s an implication that that’s silly.
Robin, I read those quotes from Seressia and Ree as being encouraging, not implying that the white reader was “silly.”
I thought Seressia was suggesting that precisely because we’re romance readers, reading a genre with covers that often get mocked, and that people sometimes call “trash,” we’ve learned ways of dealing with that. Knowing that we’ve got those strategies for dealing politely but firmly with people who query our reading choices might help us feel prepared if we’re venturing over into the AA aisle for the first time.
As for Ree’s comment,
there is no reason to think we are putting all that thought as to what you are doing in the AA sections. *lol*
I didn’t think she was brushing off white readers’ concerns, but was trying to boost those readers’ confidence. I know that when I first started buying romances I was self-conscious, and thought the librarians and booksellers would be watching me and thinking about my book choices. If in a discussion online a librarian had said “there is no reason to think we are putting all that thought as to what you are doing in the [romance] sections,” I think I’d have found that reassuring. Nowadays, of course, I’ve got to the point where, as Seressia implied, I’m able to give a good “response when people look cross-eyed at [me] for reading ‘trashy books.’”
And there’s always the online book-buying option and/or the ebook option.
sometimes it looks like white readers can’t win for trying: if we don’t read AA/IR Romance, it’s because we’re racially insensitive, and if we do read it but don’t like what we read, we’re racially insensitive
I’ve read some I’ve liked and others I haven’t liked, just as when I’ve ventured into any new area of romance where I hadn’t yet established which authors’ styles suited my tastes. That’s one reason why I think that more reviews would be helpful. Readers who haven’t tried an AA or inter-racial romance before might feel they were venturing out into uncharted waters, but recommendations from a reviewer they trust and whose tastes they share might help make sure they pick up a higher proportion that they will like.
The Vixenne (aka Kymberlyn Reed) said on 05.08.08 at 12:38 AM • [link]
I’m like Seressia and Shiree, in that as a black woman, I’ve always been into things that the ignorant consider “white”. My first love in a rock band was and is Journey. I still have the biggest hots for Steve Perry (he’s a client of my firm’s and I got to meet him AND get a hug—go ME!). I was a pre-teen but my parents allowed me to go to all their shows with either my cousin (also a Journey fan) or my best friend and fellow Journey-girl, Edith. Did it ever bother me to sometimes be one of a handful of black faces in a predominantly white crowd? Hell no, because I wasn’t there to see the crowd—I was there to rock out to Steve, Neal, Jonathan, Ross and drummer Steve. Now I keep the metal faith and just last month went to see Symphony X and Epica at the House of Blues and as usual, was pretty much the only dark chica there. So what? I’m there to see Russell Allen cause he’s got a great voice and is way hot!
I do Elizabethan re-enactments and am a member of the SCA. I am a past tournament D&D;gamer who still has the most kick-ass 36th level warrior-cleric ever. And never ONCE did it ever occur to me that I shouldn’t do or have done any of those things because of my race or that I should get all hypersensitive about being the only one with a decent tan. Life’s too short to get stuck on other folks’ head trips.
The point is, it is way past the time to step out of the limiting comfort zone. I know race is a touchy subject, but one reason it is has to do with how dishonest we as a society are about it. It’s the bull in the china shop we try to ignore while it’s smashing away at the Waterford crystal. Yes, there will always be the “more revolutionary than thou” types who will think it’s their business to criticize, but you can’t make those folks happy no matter what, so screw ‘em! By the way, not every AA book is ‘The Thug Who Loved the Stripper in Da Hood With His 22-Inch Rims on Da Bentley’. There are a lot of quality love stories featuring AA h/h, as the lists posted have shown.
Honestly though, who cares what someone who isn’t taking care of you thinks anyway? Frankly, I don’t care if you go to the AA section of a bookstore and I don’t see it as “fetishizing” people of color when you buy a Parker, Kimani or Genesis book. In fact, if I’m there, I wouldn’t pay attention to you at all because I’m too busy trying not to blow two to three-hundred bucks on books (which I’m very good at doing).
Fanboys give me looks when I’m over at the Forgotten Realms section, but I happen to LOVE Drizzt so they can kiss my butt. And yes, you might not like EVERY AA or IR book out there (believe me, I’ve run into some stinkers—ask my fellow IMRR’s about a certain writer who always gets my goat), and that’s your right. There’s quite a few caucasian writers who had to have slept with someone in order to get a contract because their books suck and yet they sell zillions.
My thing is, don’t go into a AA or IR book with all these silly (and yes, I said SILLY) preconceived notions of what the characters are going to be like. Nine times out of ten you’ll be disappointed. Open your minds, hearts (and pocketbooks) and see that love is truly a universal emotion.
snarkhunter said on 05.08.08 at 01:58 AM • [link]
Well, as one of the people who expressed a hypersensitivity that I FULLY admit is patently ridiculous (hence my shame), I will say that I was not offended by the comments in response. Well, maybe vaguely annoyed by Barbara Karmazin’s first response, but the second was much less annoying. :)
I can tell you, though, that this hypersensitivity in me is a product of two things. First, I am by nature hyper-aware of others’ reactions (unless I’m tired, which, by virtue of being hyper-aware, I often get very quickly around large numbers of people), and struggle to NOT be completely paranoid. (My Issues! Let me show you them! To think I pay my therapist for this!) I feel totally out of place in the comic book store, too—and not just b/c I have a vagina (though that’s part of it), but also because I feel like I don’t know enough/don’t have enough street cred in comics to be there. Of course, in order to get that cred, I have to browse the comics! Vicious circle.
Second, I am in academia. In English. In graduate school, aka Land of the Judgiest of Judgy McJudgersons. Mostly, I ignore it/shrug it off/flaunt my “lowbrow” taste (now that I think about it, I am going to make sure to read Big Spankable Asses right smack in the middle of the department, hopefully somewhere where my arch-nemesis, Dr. Dementor, will see me). But with some stuff, you do internalize the sense of judgment, the concern with appropriation, etc.
So, yeah. Like I said, I know the hypersensitivity is kind of silly. But it’s there all the same, and I have to deal with it all the same. And not let it stop me from reading good books!
Barbara Karmazin said on 05.08.08 at 02:30 AM • [link]
My apologies again. I realized as soon as I submitted my first response that it was too flippant. Which is why I immediately apologized with my second response. Then, Ree sent in her very thoughtful and excellent response which explained what I was trying to say in the first place.
Slinking away, now that I succeeded in putting my foot in mouth.
Barbara Karmazin
snarkhunter said on 05.08.08 at 03:54 AM • [link]
No, don’t slink away! I understood what you were getting at, and your second post made the point very well.
Robin said on 05.08.08 at 04:09 AM • [link]
I’m sorry if it looked like I was pointing fingers at some of the commenters; it just occurred to me when I was reading Jana’s post that what seems like an obvious case of “overthinking” to one person is a serious dilemma to another. I just pulled a couple of snippets out of the responses to Jana’s comment to give some context to what I was thinking. See, I knew I wasn’t going to be able to be all that clear.
Seressia said on 05.08.08 at 06:18 AM • [link]
Thanks, Laura.
Oh, and if I may point to a review site for AA romance, try http://www.romanceincolor.com/ They’ve been reviewing black romance since 1994 and have reviewer’s choice awards as well. I’ve seen ratings as low as two stars, if that helps.
sandra said on 05.08.08 at 07:35 AM • [link]
Upon a Midnight Clear by Amanda McCabe ( Jamaican heroine, upper class English hero) in the anthology Regency Christmas Magic.
If you want a romance set somewhere other than the British Isles, and not within the last 300 years, search the UBS for Dark Priestess by Juanita Coulson. Its set in Babylon ( modern day Iraq) during the reign of Hammurabi ( 1790-1750 BC). Spamword ‘ago46”. No, it was a lot longer ago than that :-D
pissed off one said on 05.08.08 at 10:45 AM • [link]
This is totally out of place, so I apologize in advance.
Where is Candy, why am I not seeing more of her? Candy, when will you be back? Are you working on that book of yours or do you not want to come and chat with us no more? We miss the witty conversation that the two of you use to have. Please, please come here more often or I will commit suicide very soon.
pissed off one said on 05.08.08 at 10:48 AM • [link]
This is totally out of place, so I apologize in advance.
Where is Candy, why am I not seeing more of her? Candy, when will you be back? Are you working on that book of yours or do you not want to come and chat with us no more?
Please, please come here more often or I will commit suicide very soon.
Looking forward to the days when you will be back.
Laura Vivanco said on 05.08.08 at 02:17 PM • [link]
if I may point to a review site for AA romance, try http://www.romanceincolor.com/ They’ve been reviewing black romance since 1994 and have reviewer’s choice awards as well. I’ve seen ratings as low as two stars, if that helps.
It would be so convenient if they could post their reviews with an rss feed. I’m lazy sometimes, and it’s so much easier to keep up with blogs because they appear in my feed reader, whereas if something’s on a website, I have to remember to check it. That’s not an excuse, just me acknowledging my laziness. Blogging in Black has an rss feed, which means I get notification of when APOOO’s selection of reviews, and the month’s selection from Romance in Color, are up there. I should probably use that as a reminder to click across to their websites and read all their other reviews for the month.
As for them giving a mixture of high to low ratings, that does help inasmuch as it demonstrates that they’re prepared to criticise the books and don’t just praise all of them.
I was thinking, though, that it can take a while for a reader to work out which reviewers’ tastes match their own, and until they do, the results can be a bit hit and miss. Which is fine if someone’s prepared to keep trying but if a reader has a limited budget/limited reading time, then it can be helpful for her to get reviews from a reviewer she already knows has tastes which match her own, because that way she’s more likely to feel confident that that books will please her. It’s not an either/or situation, but one where the two would complement each other, because once someone knows a few books they like, they can check out what the new-to-them reviewers thought of those books. I know that at AAR and Dear Author, for example, there are descriptions of the reviewers’ tastes, illustrated by a list of books they’ve liked. That can help guide a reader, but the technique won’t work unless the reader already knows those books and how she herself felt about them.
Sometimes comparisons can help too (like the AAR if you like ... (By author/style) section). I’m not sure if anyone else would agree, but there’s something about Beverly Jenkins’ style which reminds me of Nora Roberts’. And of course, they both have a tendency to win awards ;-) [Beverly Jenkins pretty much swept the board at the Emma awards]
sweeterex said on 11.10.08 at 12:45 PM • [link]
I think sometimes interracial relationship books are hard, because the interracial part becomes THE book… thank you 4 this nice post…
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