Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Is this a reissue and/or rewrite of another story by Emma Wildes? I have read a story by Emma Wildes called Lady Rothburg’s Advice that was in an anthology called Lust.

Politesse?  Not even a word that should be used once.  Also, Colton=as much of a historical English name as Brianna, so I suppose they deserve each other.

There is not much that I hate more than inappropriate names in historical fiction. 99% of the time I won’t bother reading the book. And my own name in a historical piece? It is a modern name, from what I can gather. I could maybe get over it, if the character was Irish. Don’t even get me started on Colton. Sheesh!

There is not much that I hate more than inappropriate names in historical fiction.

This.  It’s just one reason (of several, actually) that I can’t bring myself to watch Inglourious Basterds—Shoshanna?  Really?  For a Frenchwoman in the 1940’s?  She sounds like an Eighties pop star.  And don’t even get me started on Whitney My Love—if the reviews I’ve read here hadn’t already turned me off, the inappropriate name would have done the trick.

I bought a great book called Baby Names for Dummies that I look at as (when) I continue to write all the rejected books that will eventually lead to my first (published) novel. Why? Because one of the things it does is tell you what names were popular when. I love that you can pretty much guess the publication dates of Harlequins by the names of the protagonists. However, I agree with you all that historicals should have names closer to the era they are supposed to portray. Though I suppose most of us don’t find Gertrude that much of a turn-on. (With apologies to any Gertrudes reading.)

Re: the real Regency names:

Albina? I can visualize her alabaster skin now. Has there been an albino hero or heroine yet? I bet there has. Romance is so damn thorough.

As for the male name Peregrine, authors should be all over that! I’m so sick of the name Hawk for a hero, Peregrine would give me a chance to roll my eyes in the other direction. Oh and Rawden! I mean, it’s got RAW right in it! He sounds like an Angry Boner Man if ever there was one.

Thanks, Jo Beverly!

It’s just one reason (of several, actually) that I can’t bring myself to watch Inglourious Basterds—Shoshanna?  Really?  For a Frenchwoman in the 1940’s?  She sounds like an Eighties pop star.

Isn’t Shoshanna Hebrew (= English Susanna(h))?

Has there been an albino hero or heroine yet? I bet there has. Romance is so damn thorough.

I recall a couple of heroines with prematurely white hair—the heroine of Isolde Martyn’s Moonlight and Shadow goes to great pains to conceal her white hair, which is considered the mark of a witch (fifteenth century England.)

Isn’t Shoshanna Hebrew (= English Susanna(h))?

OK, how about Suzanne?  Or Suzette (though the latter sounds a bit stripper-ish.)

I’m just jealous you’ve already read this book. I LOVED this author’s last book (loved, loved, loved. Did I mention I loved her book?) so I’ve been looking forward to reading Lessons From a Scarlet Lady. And the problems you have with it, I don’t think they’ll bother me so much. So yeah!!

On an unrelated note, I was at the ARR Romance website looking at their recent reviews. There was a review for Proof by Seduction by Courtney Milan, but I read the title as Poof by Seduction. So now I really want to read Poof by Seduction. Anyone want to write it for me?

Loved the review, loved the concept, and seriously love the discussion on names. Colton is more common as a surname, but as Jo Beverly pointed out, surnames sometimes got used as first names. Colton is related to the word for ‘charcoal’, so especially appropriate if the hero is dark.  Brianna is the feminine form of Brian. Given a choice, I’d rather be Brianna than Wilhelmina (William) or Edwina (Edward). And Shoshanna is indeed the Hebrew form of Susana (meaning lily). Whitney is also a surname used as a first name, is gender neutral, but yeah, probably wouldn’t be used during that period. At least we’re no longer dealing with heroines named Flame and Starr and stuff!

Re: the real Regency names:

Googlebooks yay!  I’m the weird type of person who loves reading through the peerage lists and the Royal Navy lists of the time era and choosing the names of my characters from them.  The lists are great for browsing and character description.  And they’re free from your local googlebooks.

My word: “say84”—Just sayin’...

meh…its not just the unlikley period names…doesnt anyone ever get bothered by all the many many dukes that crawl out of the woodwork…. good lord if there were that many dukes back then we would all be related to one nowadays.

hehe… my word is federal39… the website agrees

(May be a double-post—the spam filter and I got into a fight and the spam filter won, so I’m reposting from memory.)

I don’t like anachronistic names in historicals, they seem to take over the book and make it hard to follow the story line.  Yes, there were some exotic names in the past (one of Edith Wharton’s noblemen in “The Buccaneers” is named Ushant), but mostly there were long lines of Janes, Marys, Elizabeths, Georges, Williams, etc.

Keep in mind that until the last 100 years or so, it was not common for people to refer to each other by first names (remember Scarlett O’Hara’s parents calling each other Mr. and Mrs. O’Hara? Or Emma’s sister referring to their father as Mr. Woodhouse?)  Noblemen were usually referred to by their land—so the Duke of Breadycakes would be called “Breadycakes,” even by his wife.  I remember giving up on one historical with a heroine named Skylar.  I mean, Skylar in 19th Century England?  Come on!

On the other hand, some of the names from back in the day, like Agnes or Gertrude, are now considered so old-fashioned, I don’t know that we’d want a heroine with that name.  (With all due respect and apologies if your name is Agnes or Gertrude.)

Spam filter: big46.  That’s in milimeters, right?

@Deb - I think I’d read about an Agnes or Gertrude. Especially the latter if the hero, seeking to get under her skin, shortens her name to “Rude” instead of the usual “Gertie.” And finally she can’t take it anymore and socks him one in the nose.

Colton? I think of Colt 45. LOL

Where’s a Duke Billy Dee Williams when you need one?

I like http://thepeerage.com/surname_index.htm for historical (and contemporary) names - there are entries going pretty far back, but you do have to do a little bit of work deciding which country the names go with, since it includes European as well as UK peers (and quite a lot of non-peers too, actually).

Finally found my copy of Lust. Definitely has a novella called Lady Rothburg’s Advice. -  featuring Colton Northfield, Duke of Rolthven, and his new wife Brianna. I remember enjoying the novella, so I’ll probably check this expanded story at some stage.

Albina? I can visualize her alabaster skin now. Has there been an albino hero or heroine yet? I bet there has. Romance is so damn thorough.

Yes! Just read one. The Strangely Beautiful Tale of Miss Percy Parker by Leanna Renee Hieber. Not available on Kindle so I got the paperback.

Not quite steampunk but set in 1888 London with an interesting mystical premise. I liked it.

A married couple?  Politesse aside, I am sooooo buying this book.

Laurel:  Just seconding the Percy Parker love.

@ Laurel—I knew it! What rare physical condition (please note, I’m being careful to not imply that albinism is an affliction) hasn’t romance covered? I’ve read about burn victims, amputees, blind, deaf, mute, massively scarred of course, limps, epileptic, angry boners, Republicans… Is there a physical condition too far? Has anyone written about a heroine who was a victim of female circumcision? Man, that’d be a challenge.

@Cara - I still haven’t seen a convincing fat woman romance. Where she at some point goes off in a tirade about how she’s ugly and not even good enough for Jack The Ripper and he’s not sure if he should try to heal years of damage from bullying and verbal abuse or just smack her and leave her.

One of the many reasons I fantasize about being the inspiration behind a Great Romance Novel Heroine. How many overweight, Star Trek watching, big band & disco music loving, comic book reading, Republicans (yes, I’m one of “those people” *blows raspberry*), owned by her dog, lives with her parents at 33 heroines do you see?

None! None I tell you!

I have, however, seen married couples in romance novels before. Usually they had split up years ago and he wants her back and they’re still legally married. Or, the one I picked up in a dollar store that struck me as unbelievable even if it was set way in the past. (Either Henry the 5th or Henry the 8th was in charge.) Girl gets forcably married at 4 years old to a 13 year old boy. They don’t see each other again until both are adults and she wants a divorce so she can marry someone else.

Brianna’s a modern name.  I don’t care if it’s a feminisation of Brian, you won’t find a Brianna pre-1900, and certainly not in England; from that point of view, an ‘Edwina’ would be welcome.  I’d find that name on a historical character more irritating than ‘Colton’.  Seriously, authors, use Georgiana and Will, or Harriet and Charles, or SOMETHING vaguely accurate?!  If you want something more unusual, make them Melusina and Piers, or Annis and Godfrey, if you must - but take it from a historical source.

It’s funny, I can suspend disbelief in historical romance novels when all the characters invite each other cheerily to abandon formality and use each other’s Christian names.  But I was wildly irritated while reading the Bridgerton novels when the feminine characters used their maiden names as their new middle names - ‘Francesca Bridgerton Stirling’.  No, no, and no.  Modern Englishwomen don’t do this, and Regency Englishwomen certainly didn’t do it.

Is it too crotchety to get in a huffpo about all the heroes in romances right now with names nobody gave their kids in the 1970s? I’m thirty, around the same age as many heroes, and none of my real-life male contemporaries are named Aiden or Jace or Braden. Ditto, none of my female friends are named Gemma or Madison. Sometimes I wonder if authors are getting a little too excited with their ©2009 baby name books.

Married couples:  romances in which the hero and heroine were already married at the start of the story were not uncommon in the 1950s.  Quite often the heroine was still a virgin because of some ridiculous misunderstanding. 
The fact that the protagonists were already legally wed enabled the author to allow them to retire to the bedroom to consummate their resolution of all their problems without offending against the morality of the time.  Of course, what went on in the bedroom was not described.  That would have been illegal in a widely available novel published in the UK before 1961.

Cara:

I know a Gemma! In her thirties! In the interest of full disclosure, she is Spanish.

And Jennifer Armintrout regarding Percy Parker: Read anything similar? Ish?

This.  It’s just one reason (of several, actually) that I can’t bring myself to watch Inglourious Basterds—Shoshanna?  Really?  For a Frenchwoman in the 1940’s?

Actually Shoshanna is a very traditional Hebrew name, meaning lily.

Can I just say watching you gals snark on the name issue is so much fun it makes me wish that either our lovely SBs would give us a blog where we can have a free-for-all-snark on things we hate in romance novels, or that SBTB had a forum that’s seperate from the blogs where we can chat about anything that comes to mind, from HABO subjects to Romance Snarks, without it having to be a blog first.

Cara, if authors want to be accurate, every third contemporary with a thirtyish couple should be Jennifer and Jason, LOL.  I remember thinking similarly years ago when I was in that thirtysomething range; instead of the plethora of soap hero-esque names, there should have been an assload of Davids, Michaels, Erics, and Christophers - just like in all my classes growing up. 

I continue to be surrounded by Dave/Davids, which has turned into a rather Beta name, I think.

@Nadia - Ahem, you forgot Jamie. Very popular name in the 70s because of a certain show called The Bionic Woman.

My dad picked my name out for that reason. (I was born in 1976.) Mom just insisted on dropping the “E” because all my brothers have 4 letters in their first name. So mine had to be four too.

I have yet to see a Jami(e) - that isn’t short for James - in a romance novel. Though at least Mad About You had Helen Hunt’s character named Jamie.

True enough, Nadia. Perhaps I’m not fully embracing the beauty of fiction as a concept. You have answered my question—I am indeed too crotchety, and at holiday time, no less. I submit! Send me all your Aidens and Bradens wrapped in colorful bows!

re: Shoshanna vs Suzette

It was my understanding that Shoshanna was Jewish. So her family wouldn’t have named her something French. Shoshanna’s a really common Hebrew name (as has already been pointed out) but if it the story had been set in Poland or another Eastern European country she would probably have had a Yiddish variant instead.

As for the male name Peregrine, authors should be all over that!

Has anyone read Peregrine’s Progress by Jeffery Farnol, one of my favorite old-timey romance authors (flourished in the early 20th century, was a major influence on Georgette Heyer?)

Just wanted to add, I actually was acquainted with an Agnes not too long ago—a very sexy cocktail waitress; so much for stereotypes!

Seriously, authors, use Georgiana and Will, or Harriet and Charles, or SOMETHING vaguely accurate?

And then get slammed for doing so, as I did, LOL! Honestly, you can’t win. I always try and use period names, but I happen to have had a book out at the same time as Elizabeth Hoyt, and we’d both chosen female version of “George” for our heroine. I got majorly slammed in several places for my heroine’s name being so mundane.

My new series has a hero from a family where all the kids got named after the great heroes of Greek history (dad’s a classics scholar). And I can’t help but wonder just how much crap my poor book is going to catch . . . maybe I should throw that bit out now and just name him William? Nah, he’s sooooo not a William.

if authors want to be accurate, every third contemporary with a thirtyish couple should be Jennifer and Jason, LOL.

Depends on where you’re from, LOL! I’m in San Francisco and I don’t have a single Jennifer or Jason amongst my entire circle of friends (not even in my office). It’s the land of “exotic”/ethnic names around here (frequently not even vaguely matching up with the ethnicity of the person).

I love the idea of a romance novel about an already-married couple. It’s too bad this one has execution problems, because that’s a concept I know I’d enjoy reading about.

As for the male name Peregrine, authors should be all over that!

I just finished “An Infamous Army” and Georgette Heyer had a character named Peregrine, called Perry. He wasn’t the hero, unfortunately. I agree, its a great name.

Where’s a Duke Billy Dee Williams when you need one?
I’d so read that book. Someone needs to write it.

Laurel:  No, I haven’t!  Got some recommendations?  I loved that book.

Jennifer:

I found Percy through one of those “people who bought this also liked” functions on Amazon. The book I bought and loved was Soulless by Gail Carriger. If you haven’t read it yet, go get it. Right now. Kindle friendly. Fantastic read. (all my high points: funny, hot in parts but not grotesquely specific, steampunk-ish, smart protag).

If any suggestions come to you, click through and shoot me an email!

Cheers!
Laurel

Kalen Hughes:  Oh, that’s true, San Fran and other hip places wouldn’t be caught dead following the “top ten” pack, LOL. 

Jayne Ann Krentz as Amanda Quick has turned the frumpy-sounding old-time name into an art form.  I’d never think twice about a dull but period name in a historical, because it flows.  Too-modern names jar as I read, even if I like the name or think it fits the character’s personality.

spamword: old95 If it was a trendy baby name in ‘95, it’s not likely to be old enough for Regency.

I first heard of the name Gemma when I saw Gemma Jones, a British actress.  Per imdb.com, she was born in 1942, so she certainly came before the current crop of toddler Gemmas.

I second Jami’s suggestion for a forum. I’d be all over that like my mother on Amanda Quick novels.

We’re 30ish in Boston and we know a million Amandas and Christophers. At one point we had 5 friends named Amanda, two of which were dating Christophers. Katie and Patrick were other common ones. My Catholic school class had from 20 - 30 students through the years and always multiples of those names. In 8th grade, I remember, 3 of the 7 boys were Patricks.

Also, Colton totally got lost on his way to a Lorelei James novel.

@quichepup - Try Heyer’s Regency Buck.  That’s really Judith and Worth’s story, but Peregrine and Harriet are fairly significant secondary characters.

We’re 30ish in Boston and we know a million Amandas and Christophers.

I’m 43 and my senior year of high school, I was in AP English with 18 students or so.  Of those 18, 5 were variations on “Chris/Kris”.  There was Krissy, Christie, Christine, Chris (male), and Christopher.  Apparently, Christine/Christina/Christopher were very popular names in the 1960s—at least in Lexington, KY.

Therefore, when I named my daughter Christa Nicole, I called her by her middle name so that she wouldn’t have to be one of the multitude with the same or similar names.  She decided to start going by Christa when she started high school because there were always at least 2 other Nicoles in every class that she had since elementary school and there were NO other Christas and very very few other variations of Chris/Kris in her entire grade.  I found that kind funny.

. Especially the latter if the hero, seeking to get under her skin, shortens her name to “Rude” instead of the usual “Gertie.” And finally she can’t take it anymore and socks him one in the nose.

>:D
I’m totally in if there’s an onery heroine that knows how to throw a proper punch.

(And let’s just face it. Punching someone in the nose is always pretty funny.)

@Cara - I still haven’t seen a convincing fat woman romance. Where she at some point goes off in a tirade about how she’s ugly and not even good enough for Jack The Ripper and he’s not sure if he should try to heal years of damage from bullying and verbal abuse or just smack her and leave her.

One of the many reasons I fantasize about being the inspiration behind a Great Romance Novel Heroine. How many overweight, Star Trek watching, big band & disco music loving, comic book reading, Republicans (yes, I’m one of “those people” *blows raspberry*), owned by her dog, lives with her parents at 33 heroines do you see?

@Jami - Have you read Jennifer Crusie’s books? Bet Me is my favorite and features a heroine with serious image issues. Also, she adopts a cat. : )
I love all of Crusie’s books, but I definitely feel you should try Bet Me.

Names that are “off” irk me equally in historical and contemporary fiction, and for the same reason; it seems like sloppy characterization to me to NOT consider something about what might have influenced the character’s parents.  Names reflect not only the politics of the time, but also the popular culture (witness the raft of “Aliyahs” and “Ashantis” born in the mid-1990s), the religious convictions or lack thereof, and the parents desire to fit in or stand out. 

Two movie romance examples: Who could ever forget “Baby” in Dirty Dancing admitting that her name is “Frances…after the first woman in the cabinet?”  Right there we have a whole view of Baby’s parents, their politics, their aspirations for their daughter, and the ideals that she’s always tried to live up to.  Similarly, in the less well known (but very sweet) film Jet Lag the main character (whose name is “Rose”) explains that she rebelled against her dedicated Communist parents by becoming a beautician “because everything was in black and white when I was growing up, even the tv.”  “But Rose is a name full of color,” says the hero.  “I was named for Rosa Luxembourg,” she replies grimly, in a throwaway line that later becomes crucial for the romance.  On the other side of the political spectrum, in Harry Mulisch’s novel The Assault the main character notes in passing that any Dutch person born between 1940-1945 who calls himself “Ton” or “Dolf” is the child of Nazi sympathizers (who named their children after Anton Mussert or Adolf Hitler).  Imagine having a hero who had to live with a name that marked him out like that…conflict much?

How can such a simple way of creating a back story for the character (including probable relationship or conflicts with people as important as parents) be just thrown away for a name that sounds nice but is totally implausible?  That said, it could be just that I enjoy researching period names. ;)

Rebecca:

How about Sabrina? I love the segment of dialogue about how she came to be named:

“It’s a poem about a water sprite who saves a maiden from a fate worse than death.”

“And Sabrina’s the maiden.”

“No. She’s the savior.”

And you’re right, it tells us so much about her background and foreshadows her future. Her father is a voracious reader of the classics and what he wants for his daughter is self-empowerment, not just a good man.

Ooh, names!

For the record, I’m 27 and English and I know loads of Gemmas. Growing up, I knew ten Emmas, and about six Amys. In my rather small drama class at school, there was a Kate, a Katie, a Catherine and a Kitty. When another Catherine joined the class, we called her Bob (and yes, that’s a Blackadder reference).

I love Rebecca and Laurel’s comments about parents’ motives. I always try to name characters appropriately to their age and class, and to give siblings names that ‘match’ (ie, would the same parents really name their children Colton and Robert?).

Personally, I quite like giving my characters names they have to live up, or even down, to!

It’s interesting to see how, during various periods of history, children have been named for popular figures, just as they are now. But then it might have been the king or queen, or very often a military hero. Those names might not sound very sexy now, but they’re accurate nonetheless. And besides, as discussed above, your hero might be called Englebert, but he’d be addressed by his surname, so who cares!

And besides, as discussed above, your hero might be called Englebert, but he’d be addressed by his surname, so who cares!

Unless you’re writing younger sons (which I am at the moment) . . . then it’s often Lord Christian Name. *grin* I’m having quite a bit of fun with my hero and his classically inspired moniker.

I’m not sure I could write an entire book with a hero called Lord Englebert though (though I guess I could get by calling him Bertie in the bits from his POV; but then we’re in the land of Wodehouse and the beans and crumpets would have to have their say).

There’s a couple of ways I can swing that. First, I don’t have the time, unfortunately, much as I would LOVE to, to run and manage a forum. Oh, that this were my full-time job, but it is not. As soon as Internet: Now With Health Benefits appears, I’m on it. ;)

LOL I’ll give you that, but also keep in mind there’s a lot of us who live all over the world whom I’m sure you could trust to moderate said forums for you. So there could always be someone around to bounce the trouble makers.

But if you’d like open threads to talk about whatever, I can do those periodically. Or, you can email me any time with a “Hey Bitches!” rant about what’s ticking you off romance-wise.

Boy could I give you a LOAD to talk about! Like why is it the token gay male is always effeminate and artistic. Being the youngest of four and the only girl I can be a bit tomboyish, so people often stereotype me as a lesbian. Well, I LOVE MEN! And being a singer I’ve known a lot of gay men and I’d say only about 10% were the Carson types. Just once I’d like to see a romance novel where the heroine has a gay best friend who’s so macho he could beat up Chuck Norris and Bruce Willis with one hand tied behind his back. While the hero himself is effeminate and artistic and everyone (100% wrongly) thinks he’s gay when he’s really straight. Just blow every stereotype out of the water. Plus it would make for good conflict. He thinks macho guy is heroine’s boyfriend and is jealous of him. She knows better but at first tries to set hero up with best friend. He gets ticked off and she doesn’t understand why until she finds his gigantic stash of porno - all involving naked women, which makes her realize “Oops! He’s straight and I’m an idiot!” (Just once I’d like there to be a big comical scene where the heroine finds a huge porno stash. Come on, not all heroes are porno-less.)

I just have a problem with stereotypes in general. Not all republicans are narrow minded war mongers - I’m not. Not all religious people are preachy - I believe in many paths to the same destination and only preach when someone starts preaching to me. And not all Star Trek fans live in their parents’ basements! I don’t! (California is earthquake country. There’s very few basements here.)

Have you read Jennifer Crusie’s books? Bet Me is my favorite and features a heroine with serious image issues. Also, she adopts a cat. : )
I love all of Crusie’s books, but I definitely feel you should try Bet Me.

I haven’t read any of her’s. Why are so many romance novel heroines either petless or cat people? I love dogs! I’m totally owned by my dog far as I’m concerned. (But if you knew Minnie you’d understand why. I adopted her from a shelter in September. They rescued her in a raid on a puppy mill where she was kept as a breeder dog. Never knew life outside a cage. Only has seven teeth. But a total sweetheart!)

>:D
I’m totally in if there’s an onery heroine that knows how to throw a proper punch.

(And let’s just face it. Punching someone in the nose is always pretty funny.)

Of course it is! Now realistically if it’s a period piece you need an explanation why she can throw a punch. Most likely she grew up with a lot of older brothers, perhaps mom was sickly or even died so she was raised almost exclusively by men, in an area where there wasn’t a lot of women around for her father to hire to teach her the “proper womanly arts” like way out west in America or deep in South America or even spending many years shipwrecked before they were all finally rescued. Just - don’t give her a monkey for a pet. Monkeys make terrible pets. They throw poop. Who wants a pet that throws poop? Except maybe a boy or a really immature man.

@Laurel - Thanks for the Sabrina dialogue!  It’s been ages since I’ve seen the movies (both original and terrible remake), and totally forgot that bit.

Funny about all the Gemmas.  To me, that name is completely owned by the series of children’s novels by Noel Streatfield set in the mid-60s (I think), with a child actress named Gemma Bow.  As a kid I knew NO ONE named Gemma, so I assumed it was a “movie-star” type name (Gemma’s mother is a movie star in the novels), not actually a common English one.  I didn’t know about the British actress someone mentioned up thread.

And there are WONDERFUL historical names that have fallen out of usage.  For example, “Preciosa” (or spelling variants thereof) was pretty common in early Renaissance Spain.  It means “Beauty” and I had lots of fun with a story where there was a Dona Preciosa who was a rather harried mother of three, married to a merchant, with not much time for her glamorous name.

@Jami

Why are so many romance novel heroines either petless or cat people? I love dogs! I’m totally owned by my dog far as I’m concerned.

Mine are dog people. *grin* In fact, I just wrote the scene in my next book where the heroine finds her dog and brings it home with her.

My world is pretty much centered around my dog, so I find it just leaks naturally into my books. I can’t imagine writing about people who don’t have/love dogs (and horses).

Just once I’d like to see a romance novel where the heroine has a gay best friend who’s so macho he could beat up Chuck Norris and Bruce Willis with one hand tied behind his back. While the hero himself is effeminate and artistic and everyone (100% wrongly) thinks he’s gay when he’s really straight. Just blow every stereotype out of the water. Plus it would make for good conflict. He thinks macho guy is heroine’s boyfriend and is jealous of him. She knows better but at first tries to set hero up with best friend. He gets ticked off and she doesn’t understand why until she finds his gigantic stash of porno - all involving naked women, which makes her realize “Oops! He’s straight and I’m an idiot!” (Just once I’d like there to be a big comical scene where the heroine finds a huge porno stash. Come on, not all heroes are porno-less.)

You has SO better be writing this yourself! It sounds fab (says the girl in San Francisco).

The very useful website http://www.behindthename.com/ not only gives the etymology and history of a very extensive database of names, but includes fascinating popularity graphs for many of them, separated for different countries, of course.

My world is pretty much centered around my dog, so I find it just leaks naturally into my books. I can’t imagine writing about people who don’t have/love dogs (and horses).

@Kalen - I want to buy every single one of your books now! *grins*

Now if there were only more romance novels centered around disco music loving Star Trek fans. *giggles* I can’t help it, I prefer romance novels where I can relate to the heroines.

Geeks unite!  :)

@Kalen again -

You has SO better be writing this yourself! It sounds fab (says the girl in San Francisco).

I’m great at coming up with characters and plots, but I totally SUCK at actual writing! That’s another reason why I fantasize about being the inspiration behind a romance novel heroine or at least the basics of the plot. I’d even let the author take all the credit on one condiction, if their book is ever made into a movie, they insist I get to sing at least one song for the soundtrack!

I even had this idea for a romantic comedy who’s target demographic would be women going through menopause or who have had menopause. A woman is cursed as a young child to, every time she has her period, instead of menstruating, she turns into a man for a week. Now she’s going through menopause and every time she has a hot flash she turns into a man. She finds out if she doesn’t break the curse by the time her menopause is over, she’ll be a man forever!

The romance would be between her and her best friend from childhood who actually became the head of a business so he could hire her and help her hide her condiction. (He sends her to his private cabin every month for a week claiming it’s a “business trip.”) She only just realized he loves her and she loves him. Maybe she wrongly thought he was gay because they work in the fashion industry. Or maybe she’s just spent so much time feeling sorry for herself and only now just grown up. Or maybe a mix of both. (And because of the curse I thought it would be fun to have her be a virgin just so she can whine about how now that Mother Teresa is dead she’s the world’s oldest virgin.)

Of course she has to turn into a man briefly on a live television broadcast. So she not only has to break the curse and avoid the pitfalls of the wizard who put the curse on her, but also escape crazy scientists who want to study her, psychos who want to kill her, and reality tv producers who want her to be in their show.

See? Great plot if you ask me. But I know for a fact if I tried to write it, it would suck harder then a Candace Sams book. LOL But anyone who wants is more then welcome to steal the idea!

I just want a chance to sing in the movie version! My rendition of Unchained Melody is my most requested. One time at an outdoor party I not only had the guests watching, but the horses that the guy who owned the property came forward to watch - including ones whom he rescued from abusive situations - and golfers playing on the golf course that was just behind his property stopped their games to listen and watch.

Ah! I’m hyper! Too much holiday induced sugary madness! Totally got off topic!

@Gathers - Yes! I am a geek and I am proud of it! I can even do the “Live long and prosper” sign! My first crush was Mr. Spock. I was three years old. To this day I find men whom are tall, kind of scrawny, with big noses UBER SEXY! Especially when accompanied by a touch of grey at the temples and some crows feet around the eyes. I’ve got a thing for older men.

I like big noses and I cannot lie.

Last follow-up re names.  Just saw this article this morning:

http://shine.yahoo.com/event/coolmom/babycenters-list-of-most-popular-baby-names-of-the-decade-and-2009-556206/

So if you’re writing futuristic sci-fi romance, remember to name your heroine Emma and your hero Aiden.

BTW, I was born in the 1950s.  My parents both came from large families and I have over 30 cousins, most of whom were born in the decade between 1955 and 1965.  Of those 30, there are two Stephens, two Marks, two Daniels, two Pauls, two Theresas, etc. (you get the picture).  But when you come to the children of that generation, there’s much more of an assortment of names (including, yes, Emma and Jacob, but also Laura, Nolan, and Julia, to name a few).  I think, possibly, as a culture, we consider and reject a lot more baby names before we settle on “the one” (I know my husband and I did when we were choosing names for our children).

Kalen, Kristin Higgins write books with dog-devoted heroines, and in fact most of Jenny Crusie’s books have dogs in them too.  But dogs are tough: they’re such a tie. You can’t have your characters spending an isolated weekend in a mountain cabin when the dog is at home needing a walk! Personally, I live with a Demon Puppy, so find it hard to write about adorable wonderful devoted dogs when my own is such a little…well, bitch.

As for younger sons, well, their friends would likely still call them by their surnames, or if they’re of a Woosterish bent, by some indecipherable nickname. In fact, my entirely modern and very middle-class male acquaintances still do this, although alas, it’s never quite, “Totty ahoy, Biffy old chum!” More’s the pity.

But dogs are tough: they’re such a tie. You can’t have your characters spending an isolated weekend in a mountain cabin when the dog is at home needing a walk!

Well, I write historicals, so the dogs are either taken everywhere or left with servants. Dogs are easy when you have an army of footmen to walk them and pick up the poo (oh for a footman of my own, cause let tell you, there’s NOTHING less romantic than picking up great heaping piles of mastiff poo).

verification word: reserach87 (why yes, I do research 87 ways to Sunday)

The thing that drives me nuts is obviously Irish names for English aristocrats of the REgency era.  Not “Irish peers” but English people.  Suzanne Enoch does this a lot.  In fact there is a Regency she’s written with an English heroine named Fallon.  I mean, really, an Irish surname for a Regency Englishwoman’s first name.  I couldn’t read the book. And Fallon as a girl’s first name was really only popularized by the show _Dynasty_ in the early 1980s, wasn’t it?

Apart from the protagonists being already married, something I like is the idea of is a romance acknowledging that sex is something you need to work at, and there’s no shame in not “clicking” immediately, just so long as you’re prepared to learn and be honest. It always bugs me a bit when protagonists in any fiction have sex for the first time and (even if they’re both virgins), it’s instantly dynamite.

@Elemental

It always bugs me a bit when protagonists in any fiction have sex for the first time and (even if they’re both virgins), it’s instantly dynamite.

I think that’s one of the reasons I adore Crusie’s Welcome to Temptation. The initial sex scene where things are just not going well is great, and the way the guy deals with it is a hoot.

@Elemental -

It always bugs me a bit when protagonists in any fiction have sex for the first time and (even if they’re both virgins), it’s instantly dynamite.

Me too. Unless there’s a “believable” reason. Such as they’re destined mates tied together by the Fates long before, so of course they’re going to have awesome sex. They’re Destined To Be and who wants to be destined to someone who stinks in bed?

There’s another subject I could totally rant about. Sex in romance novels. I could go on and on just on the fact so many women are willing to jump into bed with the hero without a single Hang Up or Issue.

Romance novels about already married couples.
Try Liz Byrski, she is an Australian writer (available from Amazon, if not other sources) who writes about older women, female friendships, women and their adult children. “Belly Dancing for Beginners” had me LOL on the train. Her books are very much appreciated in the tearoom swap shelf where I work.

Awkward yet accurate historical names: who can ever forget Fitzwilliam Darcy? It certainly fits his character perfectly, but it’s no wonder it’s always “Lizzie and Darcy,” not “Lizzie and Fitzwilliam,” heh.

I have to say, after 20+ books, it becomes difficult to come up with unique but still appropriate names for characters. That said, I have NEVER written a romance with a heroine named Fallon, Joy. I may deserve censure for some things, but I would never name a historical heroine Fallon any more than I would name a hero Biff.

Last follow-up re names.  Just saw this article this morning: http://shine.yahoo.com/event/coolmom/babycenters-list-of-most-popular-baby-names-of-the-decade-and-2009-556206/
So if you’re writing futuristic sci-fi romance, remember to name your heroine Emma and your hero Aiden.

Ok, it’s official! I’m now totally screwed where ya’ll are concerned, cuz my first paranormal coming out June 1 has a heroine named Emma!  *grin* A name I happened to love because I love Emma Wildes name! LOL And worse, my hero’s name is Ares (BUT I’ve got solid reasons for that one. *grin*)

I think it’s interesting how readers can get thrown out of a read so easily by a name. Someone earlier mentioned unusual names like Colton existed, and my research confirms this fact. I’d have to go hunting to find it as it was an obscure reference, but Colton was used for a man. I’ve never really had that problem with names. I tend to treat it like Calculus. It just is. Personally, I want the name to match up to the character, forget the time period. If the writer can convince me the character is a Whitney (loved Whitney My Love), a Iphigenia (an Amanda Quick heroine) or whatever name an author comes up with, I’m happy. The character’s name must reflect them as an individual, not a time period or political statement. Although that’s definitely an interesting spin to put on the name, provided the reader is given the chance to understand the subtly.

But if the name and character don’t match, then it would be a disconnecting experience for me. I’ve not read LFASL yet, but it’s on my TBR pile. I’m looking forward to it as I’ve enjoyed Wildes earlier works. An Indecent Prop I thoroughly enjoyed. I’m also looking forward to Lisa Valdez (stop throwing tomatoes!! LOL) Patience. I really enjoyed Passion, and I’m eager to see the followup. I love her voice.

Regarding the Suzanne/Shoshana debate, France had a law (up until the early 90s) that every child whose birth is registered, or who is naturalised, must have traditional French given names. Yes, there was a list.

So to assert that someone would have an official Hebrew name is wrong, and to believe that they would be so stupid as to use their unofficial or family Hebrew name if they were supposedly hiding from the Nazis is really and truly ridiculous.

One of my pet peeves about that movie, if that couldn’t be guessed.

Regarding a discussion forum, perhaps some thought could be using Ning to host it? Some regular commenters here might be able to help moderate. Ning would also work if you wanted to use host the occasional open thread (i.e. the ability to create new threads can be locked down)

Fallon O’Rourke is the heroine of a Sophie Jordan book, Sins of a Wicked Duke.

“also the word politesse was used way too much”

Another author who uses a specific word way too much is Suzanne Enoch.  She uses the word “apologies” in every frigging book she writes and more than once.  I don’t ask that she stop using the word entirely, but if she could vary it up and use “I’m sorry” or “I apologize” occasionally, that would be awesome!

I’m a big fan of hers by the way…

Snort. Duly noted, Nicole. Apologies. *g*