Bitchin' Blog Posts
Julia Quinn and Soap Opera Digest
by SB Sarah | by SB Sarah | June 30, 2008 | Monday at 1:00 pm | 85 Comments
In a curious overlap of two audiences which, I am told, don’t often overlap to a large degree, Julia Quinn’s novel The Lost Duke of Wyndham is featured in the latest issue of Soap Opera Digest because the cover features Norwegian actress Ewa da Cruz from As the World Turns. Several SBTB readers pointed that out when we discussed the cover awhile back, which I never would have known, as I don’t watch soap operas. The article in the Digest is part interview with da Cruz, and part review.
Which brings me to my next question: how many of you who are romance fans also follow a soap? I never got into them, though I admit to being totally enthralled with possessed Marlena with those freakass creepy contact lenses on Days of Our Lives all those years ago. But I’ve never been a big soap fan. I went to college with a large core of viewers who would tape them and watch together at the end of the day, but I couldn’t stomach the fact that anyone who earned a happy ending wouldn’t stay blissful for more than 2 episodes. There would be a fireside lovemaking scene with the L-shaped sheet (covers her from clavicle to thigh, but barely covers his manly pelvis, ahem), and a really opulent wedding, then, commence angst, drama and unhappiness! I just couldn’t take it. Are you a soap fan? Which one?
And where can I get some of Marlene’s freakass creepy contact lenses?
Filed: General Bitching, The Link-O-Lator
Tagged: wyndham, julia quinn, eva da cruz
ev said on 06.30.08 at 02:01 PM • [link]
I used to watch All My Children and Guiding Light religiously. Then I went back to college a few years ago and just didn’t have the time.
What is scary is that I can tune in now and almost now what is going on.
On the other hand, I love the beefcake that shows up on the shows. Who really needs to know the story line for that?
elianara said on 06.30.08 at 02:25 PM • [link]
Nope, I don’t watch soaps. I don’t have the time, and there are lots of other things I like to do a lot more, like reading and playing my video games.
MplsGirl said on 06.30.08 at 02:42 PM • [link]
I watched soaps off and on from ages 5 through 20. When I went to college, I just wasn’t into them anymore.
It’s been ten or fifteen years since I’ve watched them and I still understand some of the story line updates, if I hear people talking about them because the basic conflicts haven’t changed in all this time.
When I was a regular, I watched Days of Our Lives and Another World and will never forget when Bo and Hope finally slept together; I cried when Another World ended. And I didn’t even watch General Hospital and still remember Luke and Laura’s wedding (that dress?!).
But dude, seriously, soaps can be so dumb. I just couldn’t take it anymore.
Rose said on 06.30.08 at 02:49 PM • [link]
I don’t watch soaps, because I like to have a beginning, a middle and an end - and, of course, soaps never end. I have, on occasion, watched telenovelas, which have a limited run (usually 120-180 daily episodes). I watched most of Betty la Fea a few years ago - before it was remade as Ugly Betty.
My main issues with telenovelas were the stagerring number of secret babies, most of whom were also kidnapped at some point, and the ultra-traditional values many of them were based upon (I understand in some countries it’s not as bad anymore). So I don’t really follow any telenovelas anymore.
Mala said on 06.30.08 at 02:53 PM • [link]
The piece actually isn’t in the latest issue of Soap Opera Digest but rather just on the Web site, shared by Digest and Soap Opera Weekly and not considered the same thing as the print mag.
And I find it really strange that people would consider romances and soaps to have separate audiences. Both are genres geared towards women, grounded in love and relationships, and that rely on melodramatic storytelling tropes. I’ve been watching soaps and reading romance novels for years—and it’s romances that my mother forbid me to consume as a teen, citing that they were smutty and trashy and without worth, whereas General Hospital was something we would watch together.
There’s no doubt that, unlike a romance novel with a beginning, middle, and end, a soap opera can’t quite deliver a longterm Happily Ever After. I can understand why that would be frustrating for viewers used to a concrete HEA. But, for me, and many others, it’s still a genre that fulfills a need to be entertained, to see good love stories played out by actors rather than just with words, etc.
And just like romance novels, soaps get shafted in the respect department. People sneer and assume that soap writers can’t write and soap actors can’t act, and you’re stupid if you like it… all of which is vastly untrue.
As for which soaps I’ve watched… at one time or another, I have all the ones currently on air, as well as Another World, Sunset Beach, and Santa Barbara.
Eve Savage said on 06.30.08 at 02:56 PM • [link]
I used to watch Santa Barbara, Another World, and Days of Our Lives religiously, but that was only during summer vacations when I was about 12-16yrs old. I got hooked on Passions (regardless of it being one of the cheesiest things in television) and Sunset Beach as well.
Nowadays, I just read the little synopses in the TV Guide and I’m totally caught up on the ones still airing. They’ve not changed much since I was actually watching them.
I hate the fact they don’t get their HEAs!!! If my town had that much tragedy and kidnappings and supposes murders and deaths and hidden evil twins and everybody related to everybody else in some way (blood or marriage) and kids that age from babies to teenagers in about a year while the parents never age - I’d think I was in the twilight zone!
E
DS said on 06.30.08 at 02:57 PM • [link]
I’ve been friends with soap fans. When I first started to
college I used to listen to the soap and Johnny
Bench (some baseball player) round up. Then again in
the early 80’s I had a housemate who loved soaps and
not much had changed in the intervening years. So here
it is 20 years later with almost no soap contact and I was
sitting i a doctor’s office waiting for a friend to come out
and a soap was playing on the tv set and I recognized
the names of the characters although I think the actors
were different—but the plot seemed familiar.
It must say something that I can remember the names
and plot lines but not the name of the soaps they graced.
snowflake said on 06.30.08 at 03:00 PM • [link]
I don’t watch soaps b/c of time slots but after rereading Kathleen Gilles Seidel’s Again last week, I totally want to be ON one. That book is sooo good.
Eliza Evans said on 06.30.08 at 03:09 PM • [link]
I watched The Young and the Restless with my grandma when I was a kid. Then, yeah, I watched Days of our Lives for a few months when Marlena was possessed, because I was in college with a lot of time on my hands and also wtf. Since then, though, I don’t watch them at all.
snarkhunter said on 06.30.08 at 03:13 PM • [link]
I used to watch Passions, because there has never been a more bizarre circus of WTFery on television. It was like watching a train and a zepplin collide in mid-air on a regular basis: highly improbable, totally unnatural, and completely unwatchable. It was practically a parody of a soap opera, which is why it was brilliant.
Krissie said on 06.30.08 at 03:22 PM • [link]
I never was a huge soap fan, but did watch “General Hospital” back in the glory days (Luke, Laura, Scorpio, etc.) because of a babysitter. So there is some nostalgia there.
However, my roommate in college was such an addicted “Days of Our Lives” fan that she scheduled her classes around it! She refused to take an 11:30 class or a 1 o’clock class…EVER. No matter who was teaching or what requirement it might have filled.
This was prior to the DVR and personal televisions in every dorm room. There was a shared TV on every floor (the women took care of their public space so well, we were ‘blessed’ with a black-and-white tv, while the men had ruined their tvs and furniture so often, they had really nice stuff) without a VCR. So you had to watch things live, or that was it.
Joanna said on 06.30.08 at 03:41 PM • [link]
Passions for the win! I’m not sure if this is a usual feature of soap operas in general or Passions in particular, but I could watch 1 episode a month and still understand all the points made in between! It moved soooo slowly! Half the episode was spent rehashing what happened in previous episodes!
Carrie Lofty said on 06.30.08 at 03:44 PM • [link]
I also did the Luke/Laura/Scorpio thing with my mom back in the day. Snarkhunter’s right in that Passions was great for its completely farfetched weirdness, and I got hooked on Days a few years back when they were all trapped on an island. But then I, too, found the everlasting angst and temporary happy endings rather depressing. I moved back to reading—and writing—romances where the couples had a certain future together. It’s all entertainment, to be sure, but it depends on what people want out of their entertainment hour.
Liz C said on 06.30.08 at 03:50 PM • [link]
I used to watch all the ABC soaps during summers off from school, stopped watching during college, picked it up again during grad school although I stuck mainly to General Hospital. It was like a train wreck and I just couldn’t not watch. Occasionally I’ll watch Y&R;. But now since I’m working and am sans TiVo or DVR I don’t watch any soaps although I do keep up with Serial Drama which is sort of like Smart Bitches crossed with Go Fug Yourself for soaps.
Silver James said on 06.30.08 at 04:01 PM • [link]
DS - Johnny Bench wasn’t just “some baseball” player. He was the catcher for the Cincinnati Reds in the Sixties and Seventies and holds just about every record a catcher can hold. *points at self* Yeah. Baseball nerd! I also got to meet him during and after a game in the 70s when I was in college. He was and is an awesome dude!
Soaps - not any more. Back in the day, I watched Santa Barbara from the first to the last episode. A Martinez and Santa Claus in December. Oh yeah, baby! Hawthawtcold! I also watched Another World. I wanted to grow up to be Felicia Gallant, famed romance writer!
snarkhunter said on 06.30.08 at 04:42 PM • [link]
Joanna- Passions moved unusually slowly—even for a soap. My friends and I once figured out that, while in regular soaps a year was about 3-4 months, in Passions, a year was at the very most one month long. We once counted how many days went by in a Jan-Dec season—I think the entire year comprised a week in Passions time.
SonomaLass said on 06.30.08 at 05:18 PM • [link]
It always interests me how many viewers “admit” that they watch daytime drama/soap opera—like it’s something to be ashamed of. Or that they used to, like a bad habit they managed to kick. There’s the shame thing again, over a form of entertainment created primarily for women (who back in the day were the ones at home during the broadcasts).
My aunt watched ALL the soaps, using several TVs. This is the same woman who got me started reading romance, by giving me grocery bags full of her Harlequin Presents to read over summer vacation. My mom never got into soap opera or romance (mystery/detective fiction for her, all the way), but I remember when All My Children started as a new show, she watched it, thinking that maybe if she watched from the beginning, she’d get it. She didn’t, but I did! It’s been 38 years, and I can still watch an occasional episode or read a synopsis and recognize someone (or their child, or grandchild). I’ve also watched others over the years, having a number of friends who act professionally and who have appeared in daytime.
I guess the lack of HEA never bothered me too much because of the format—it’s not like a book where you get to freeze time at the moment of romantic resolution. Instead, the characters live on, age, face new conflicts and challenges, and sometimes they break up, get back together, are pulled apart, learn that “true love” at 20 is different than at 30 or 40, just like my life (without the international supervillains, espionage or returns from the dead, of course). It’s a form, with conventions, some similar to and some different from the ones of the romance novel. Sometimes they are executed well, sometimes clumsily; sometimes they are pushed or even violated, with fascinating results. I can see why some people like one but not the other, but for me there’s interest to be found in both.
And without soap opera, we would never have had the movie Soap Dish, and I know my life would be poorer for that!
I <3 Erica Kane….
Stephanie said on 06.30.08 at 06:07 PM • [link]
Soap Dish was AWESOME, although I do not watch soap operas. I came to romance via fantasy/SF, and therefore grew up watching Star Trek, which, in the DS9 incarnation, was sort of like a soap opera for SF people/guys. Sort of.
I don’t really like starting shows or movies anywhere but the beginning (unless I’ve seen the movie before, or at least parts of the beginning of a run of a show), so soap operas will not work for me. (Some sitcoms are exempt from this, but not all of them.)
soakbonus said on 06.30.08 at 06:14 PM • [link]
I have watched One Life to Live off and on since I was in high school. I got into it one summer when it was the Jessica and Will storyline. Will was definitely hot; thus my interest. Then I would record it every day during school. When I went to college, I got out of watching it all the time. I would catch an episode every now and then and still kind of know what’s going on. Now that I’m staying at home with my 1 year old, I watch it every day using the DVR. I tried watching General Hospital and Days of Our Lives for a while; but both of those just got annoying for me. For me the soap is kind of a comfort thing. You know there will always be some craziness going on and you can catch on to what’s happening pretty fast. Even though most characters don’t get a HEA very long, you still want them to have one sometime. I started reading romance novels in sixth or seventh grade and my parents never really had a problem with romance novels or soaps.
Mary M said on 06.30.08 at 06:20 PM • [link]
I’ve read romance for several years but I never watched soap operas, unless you count the French version of Santa Barbara I used to watch with my mom when I was about 10. I don’t watch much TV at all, to tell the truth. So I would never have known about the Norwegian actress on the cover of Quinn’s book. Interesting trivia, though :).
Chicklet said on 06.30.08 at 06:26 PM • [link]
My mom and I have been watching As the World Turns for 25 years as of this summer, and it’s one of “our” things, what we connect through. Lately, we just complain how every single storyline there now sucks except for the Luke/Noah plot, which is proceeding like every other soap romance (“Oh noes! We have been torn apart by a misunderstanding!”) but it’s novel because it’s two young men. (And talk about a wasted cast; there are some talented people on ATWT, but you wouldn’t know it from the lame-ass stories they’re saddled with.)
As a viewer, I’ve always been amazed that the cast and crew can create that much programming on a consistent basis. The production schedule is absolutely crazy. I was a film/TV major in college and for my TV production class, we created eight, 30-minute episodes of a soap opera, and I thought I was going to keel over. I can’t imagine creating 30 or 60 minutes every single day.
I don’t have a problem with the lack of HEA on soaps, probably because I don’t buy into static HEAs in romance novels; I just assume the main couple will have lots of ups and downs and someday might get divorced or whatnot. My favorite movie line this summer is from Sex and the City, where Carrie’s voiceover explains that “some love stories aren’t epics, they’re short stories, and that’s okay.”
rebyj said on 06.30.08 at 06:39 PM • [link]
I watched cbs soaps as a teen , as an adult not so much. I recently turned Guiding Light on and got a headache from the way the camera kept moving around and the sound quality was terrible. Plus everyone was so young it was like watching romper room to an old gal like me.
I’ve become addicted to the afternoon programs on BBC , those two old ladies that clean houses crack me up. Watching them stick their finger in a sink drain and pull crap out is much more horrifying and entertaining than a soap! LOL
Randi said on 06.30.08 at 06:44 PM • [link]
I was more into the night soap operas: Dallas and Falcon Crest. You could even say that 90210 was a soap opera-which I watched but not religiously. My issue with soap operas is not the lack of HEA, but that they are always about rich people who create their own frackin weird ass angst and drama. It just gets old and I end up not caring a lick about any of the characters. Alternatively, with a good romance, I get character development, a mix of socio-economic classes, a mix of races, and less drama. Which, for me, provides me with a better platform for empathy with the characters. Soap Opera characters: good care less.
Kelly C said on 06.30.08 at 06:53 PM • [link]
If effing Comcast in my area would return SoapNet to it’s basic digital cable lineup, then yes, I would be watching soaps.
But since that ain’t happening
I am currently Soap Opera-less.
And there is NO point in my taping/dvr’ing/tivo-ing them because I never watch anything I tape.
Lorelie said on 06.30.08 at 06:55 PM • [link]
The summer I was 10, I spent about a month in the breakroom of my mom’s office. While I could usually finagle some cartoons in the morning, in the afternoon I lost all control of the tv. As a result, I developed an All My Children and General Hospital habit that lasted a while. General Hospital lasted a little longer, since I could usually catch the last 20 minutes after I came home from school, but it eventually got too hard to keep up.
Gasp! I might just cry now.
Mala said on 06.30.08 at 07:00 PM • [link]
My issue with soap operas is not the lack of HEA, but that they are always about rich people who create their own frackin weird ass angst and drama. It just gets old and I end up not caring a lick about any of the characters. Alternatively, with a good romance, I get character development, a mix of socio-economic classes, a mix of races, and less drama. Which, for me, provides me with a better platform for empathy with the characters. Soap Opera characters: good care less.
Wow. Holy sweeping generalization, Batman. If someone had said, and several someones HAVE said, the same thing about romance novels, romance readers would be up in arms!
Soaps often have excellent character development, so much so that they engender a sense of character loyalty over the course of years. As for class issues… As the World Turns, Guiding Light, Ryan’s Hope, Days of our Lives... these are all shows that are largely blue collar in nature. While there are rich people creating angst and drama, there’s a fairly level dose of working class heroes as well. And a mix of races…? Oh, come on. Romance novels are way, way less diverse than soaps unless you mean the types of books Cassie “Savage Plagiarism” Edwards put out.
Everyone has their personal tastes, and that’s fine, but tarring an entire genre with the “ew!” brush, especially on a romance novel blogging site, seems disingenuous.
Suze said on 06.30.08 at 07:25 PM • [link]
I watched Days of Our Lives for about three months between finishing up secretary school and getting a job. In that time, Patch and Kayla almost came together and then were split apart three times. It got wildly frustrating, and then I got a job.
Now, in the days of VCRs and TiVo (neither of which I own), I don’t watch TV while the sun is up. Not due to any philosophy, it started off because the only spot in my living room that I could possibly put the TV was in a position that had sun shining on it during the day, unless I blocked out the light. I NEED my sunshine, man! So I just got out of the habit of daytime TV.
I do find it interesting that, for someone who defends my romance reading habit, I’m a little contemptuous of people who enjoy soaps. And, of course, just like people who look down on romances and have never read them, I have never really watched soaps. Philosophically consistent? Why, almost never, thank you!
Dayle said on 06.30.08 at 07:31 PM • [link]
One thing that fascinates me is that British soap operas are the opposite: they’re about working-class people. I’ve always wondered about that dichotomy. I guess Americans like to look at rich people and think “Oh, even rich people have problems,” whereas Brits like to identify with the people and their problems?
I watched General Hospital in high school, and being an SF geek, loved the plot about the guy who was using a weather machine to freeze Port Charles. Hee!
Nickle said on 06.30.08 at 07:33 PM • [link]
My mom was in the hospital recently for hip replacement and to entertain her while we were sitting there in her room I turned a soap on and the volume down and we did our own dialogue to it. It was hysterical and cheered my mom up immensely. The only thing that coulda made it better would have been if I was able to find a Telenova.
Jenyfer Matthews said on 06.30.08 at 07:40 PM • [link]
I watched Days of Our Lives religiously for years…would tape it and watch it when I got home at night. What I find the creepiest weren’t Marlena’s contact lenses, but the fact that she still looks the same as she did in the late 80s!!! WTFBBQ??
Melissandre said on 06.30.08 at 07:43 PM • [link]
The Sci-Fi channel used to air old Dark Shadows episodes in the mornings, and I would watch them when I was on summer break in high school. I am a huge vampire fan, and this was a good way to get my fix. That, and the shows were unintentionally hilarious. The 70s fashions! The cheesy special effects! Quentin’s obviously fake mutton chops! And there were occasional mistakes, like seeing the boom mike dip into the frame, or when an actress forgot her line and was prompted by an audible voice from offscreen. Good times. It got to be a little hard to keep track of, since I was watching it only during the summers. I couldn’t keep all the time travel, double casting, hypnotism, witchcraft, vampirism, and werewolfery straight. Still, it was an…interesting show.
Esri Rose said on 06.30.08 at 07:50 PM • [link]
I got hooked on All My Children during college, because it was showing in the Student Union when I had my lunch break—slice o’ pizza and the lovely and fascinating Erica Kane, who is my all-time favorite soap character (Hi, Sonomalass!).
Then I left college, went to work, and never watched ‘em again. They do move really slowly. The lack of HEA probably wouldn’t bother me, but the slowness might.
LizC said on 06.30.08 at 07:54 PM • [link]
The lack of HEA doesn’t bother me either. What bothers me is that for 10 years I’ve been waiting for Jax and Alexis to hook up on General Hospital and the stupid show refuses to go there. Not that they aren’t great as BFFs but Jax is the only one worthy of Alexis on that stupid show. They’ll throw every one else together but they keep ignoring my favorite pair!
rebyj said on 06.30.08 at 07:58 PM • [link]
http://www.noveltycontactlenses.com/
caution: wearing any of these lenses to church may lead to an exorcism!! lol
katiebabs said on 06.30.08 at 08:18 PM • [link]
I use to be a big DOOL fan! John is a drug addict now and Marlena has been given a vaca from the show.
Great too see that Patch is back wearing his patch!
Nadia said on 06.30.08 at 08:44 PM • [link]
Some of my fondest early memories are of watching The Doctors, Days of Our Lives, and Another World with my grandmother during summer breaks as a kid. I stayed with DOOL all through high school (would come home at lunch to watch) and college (would try to schedule my classes and work hours to watch with sorority sisters a couple days a week). I tried to watch after graduation, but with a traveling job, keeping up with VCR taping was a pain. Now that I’m a SAHM with a DVR and do have the time to watch, I just never got back into the habit. I like the quiet in the afternoon of not having the TV on, and I’d rather read when I get a chance to sit. I do still read the weekly blurb in the newspaper, that’s cool that some of the old favorites like Patch are back.
Aemelia said on 06.30.08 at 09:20 PM • [link]
Thanks to Soapnet…I’ve found myself watching General Hospital, One Life to Live and sometimes Days of Our Lives…
Randi said on 06.30.08 at 09:54 PM • [link]
Mala: Clearly your definition of character development and mine do not overlap. That’s not a big deal, I don’t think. However, in my opinion, having watched, at some point, all the soaps, the characters do not develop. They stay exactly the same, year after year, rehashing the same drama, year and year. Again, my opinion. You don’t agree: that’s cool. You don’t have to. But I do disagree with you on that.
Re: the socio-economic background of soaps: if American soaps now include middle class and poor people-that’s entirely new. When I was watching them, (and even now, the OC, Gossip Girl), they are about rich white people who have lots of ridiculous problems. Could be soaps have opened their storylines to include non-wealthy individuals; but when I was watching them….nope.
Re: race. No. I will debate this with you too. I have come across a lot more inter-racial romance novels, than soaps. And no, I am not talking about Cassie Edwards. If you find more non-whites in soaps, than you do in romance novels, I recommend expanding your reading selection.
re: the “ew” brush. I never said soaps are “ew” and if I implied such, then my bad. I don’t believe my post made any sort of judgement call against people who watch them. If I somehow made that implication, then I am apologize to all who may have taken it that way. But I believe my post only said why *I* don’t like them. You can feel free to disagree and certainly feel free to dialogue about it; but calling me disengenuous is a hulking big insult to paint me with, on a subject where I was stating my own opinion, not making judgement calls.
Melissa said on 06.30.08 at 10:29 PM • [link]
I grew up in Barbados where Days of Our Lives is the #1 soap (beloved by little old ladies) and I used to watch with my grandma. The only think is the soap is like 15 or 20 years behind the version in the USA so I grew up on seventies fashion followed by large 80s hair.
These days I don’t have time to keep up with any of them but I have over the years found that it is fun to check in from time to time just to see how everything has developed e.g. little Johnny who was 4 yrs old last time you watched 2 years ago is now 38 and married…only in soap opera land
ev said on 06.30.08 at 10:34 PM • [link]
Dark Shadows- my first intro to vamps,when I was a kid. I love that show. The remake sucked.
The Doctors was one I had forgotten about. I did watch that.
And Ryan’s Hope. Defunct. And Port Charles. Defunct. Does anyone see a pattern here, or am I just paranoid??
And I find it amazing that guys will cop to watching a soap, but seldom/never to reading a romance. Why is that I wonder??
Toddson said on 06.30.08 at 10:38 PM • [link]
I have, in the past, watched various soaps. Unfortunately, a lot of the ones I liked went off the air (I seem to be the kiss of death for any show I like).
I watched Dark Shadows when it was new. It was incredibly popular when I went to college - since we didn’t have Tivo or VCRs then, you had to watch when it was on. Since it came on in the afternoon, right in the middle of labs, fans who had a lab would leave one person to watch the lag and everyone else would traipse up to the nearest dorm, commander the TV, watch the half-hour of Dark Shadows, then go back to the lab.
ev said on 06.30.08 at 10:44 PM • [link]
Toddson- amusing we were thinking the same thing right then, isn’t it? Being the kiss of death is what happens to any good show on TV that I like. Moonlight? Blood Ties? New Amsterdam? See. I quit watching new shows.
SonomaLass said on 06.30.08 at 10:57 PM • [link]
Esri Rose welcome to the Erica Kane fan club! I like to watch actors on soaps, especially long term. The challenge of playing the same character, every day, for YEARS, in different situations and circumstances, fascinates me. There’s an interesting tension (in terms of “character development”) between keeping a character consistent over months and years (even when you change the actor!) and having him/her change, learn, grow, adapt over time. Some actors do it better than others —some writers, too. It’s always a shock when writers take a character “in a different direction,” with or without accompanying amnesia/multiple personality/possession/long-lost twin to explain it. For me that’s part of the fun, but I know lots of people find it silly.
To weigh in on class and race: most soaps start with one rich family and one working class family, and one of the early plot lines is a “wrong side of the track” romance between the son of one and daughter of the other. In the 70s, some soaps worked to add racial diversity, with varying results. There was a lot of segregation within the story, but there were also interracial romances (like Duncan and Jessica, the marvelous Tamara Tunie, on ATWT). And you did, and do, see cops, doctors and lawyers who aren’t white, and a lot of construction workers and waitresses who are. If you mostly watched prime time soaps, you’d get a very different experience.
All My Children had the first abortion on television—not televised, but in the story line—as well as a pretty good Vietnam protest plot. They also featured a lesbian storyline before such things were at all accepted on prime time. Other soaps have pushed various other social envelopes, despite daytime’s reputation for being safe and boring. I was writing a book about this, once upon a time.
Mala said on 06.30.08 at 11:04 PM • [link]
Randi - If you say I need to expand my reading selection, then I can pretty much counter with you needing to expand your viewing selection. It’s an argument that can only go round and round and will get neither of us anywhere.
As I said, personal taste is personal taste, but generalizing about soaps and their poor quality is the equivalent of making the same broad judgment about romance novels, and I didn’t mean to say that you, specifically, were being disingenuous. Rather, it’s the entire incredulous tone from several posters here, who are glancing at soaps askance, like it’s an embarrassment to admit to watching them.
Soaps are just as varied and diverse as books. You’ve got your Nora Roberts equivalent gold standard (The Young and the Restless), you’ve got your romance author who somehow veered off into action thriller territory ala Sandra Brown and Iris Johansen (General Hospital), you’ve got your OMGWTFBBQ! Emma Holly-Cassie Edwards hybrid in Passions, etc.
Randi said on 06.30.08 at 11:05 PM • [link]
SonomaLass: fair enough. I clearly did not catch those particular episodes (though I was born in 1974-not old enough to watch soaps in the 70’s). But now I’m curious: have you seen cultural moves in soaps form the 70’s? Or more specifically: If, in the 70’s, soaps were branching out into various socio-economic and racial story lines, did you see that trend continue in the 80’s and 90’s? Or, did you see a different trend in the 80’s and a different trend in the 90’s, and also, what do you see happening now in soaps?
ev said on 06.30.08 at 11:09 PM • [link]
Sonoma- I love All my children and esp Erica Kane. they have had the best story lines and some of the best man titty going for years. Jackson, anyone?? I need a bib.
Mala said on 06.30.08 at 11:11 PM • [link]
I’m not SonomaLass, but I’m glad to see the points she brought up. There has absolutely been a trend since the ‘70 to continue dealing with issues of race and class in daytime. From shows like Generations, to GH’s current spinoff, Night Shift. I just wish they’d get a better handle on their gender issues!
Malin said on 06.30.08 at 11:44 PM • [link]
Gotta ask: what does the BBQ stand for in OMGWTFBBQ? I can figure the rest out but the BBQ has been driving me nuts for a while. I assume its not barbeque. :-P
I can’t watch soaps. If I start watching I’ll get hooked on a story line and frustrated beyond belief because it’s just so SLOW and NOTHING EVER HAPPENS - except that one time I’m unable to watch. I’d rather spend that time reading. I’ll take books over pretty much anything on TV - ever. The more I watch, the less time I have to read. The more I watch, the less sleep I get.
That said, I sometimes like me some latin emotion in the form of a telenovela. The culture is so different, the emotions so big, some of the women so full of plastic (silicone, whatever) it’s unbelievable, and the macho, macho men who don’t take no for an answer… kind of like the heroes of bodice rippers. :-D That’s entertainment! I’m lucky to have a friend who watches regularly so I don’t have to, I just get an update once in a while.
time54. No time for everything I want to do, must prioritize.
Flea said on 06.30.08 at 11:55 PM • [link]
I’ve watched all of the ABC soaps (All My Children, One Life to Live, General Hospital) off and on since I was out of diapers. I have my complaints and I’ve done my share of cursing out the TV, but I just can’t seem to give them up completely for any length of time. I even went through a phase where I was a groupie and went to soap events and to Super Soap Weekend at Disney.
LizC…Jax rocks! He deserves a woman like Alexis, doesn’t he!
amhartnett said on 06.30.08 at 11:56 PM • [link]
Not since Another World went off the air, but even then it wasn’t the same since Anne Heche left. You could see the crazy in her eyes even back then! It sucked you in!
Melissandre said on 07.01.08 at 12:28 AM • [link]
Malin, I think BBQ does stand for barbeque. It’s added in as a joke, because OMGWTF already has enough letters, we might as well add a few more. I could be wrong, since I first heard about it here at Smart Bitches (along with a few other choice phrases).
Glad to know I was not the only one hooked on Dark Shadows. Barnabas Collins rules! Or sucks? I don’t know…
SusiB said on 07.01.08 at 12:49 AM • [link]
I love soap operas, they are just hilarious! Unfortunately, we don’t get many good ones in Germany; so currently I only watch a German one when I’m at home at the time it’s broadcast. The characters look funny - at least those that portray “cool” teenagers - and the way they can be a bar owner in one month, a teacher next month and work at a advertising agency after that always cracks me up. Also, nobody ever needs training or a university degree to get a fabulous job and earn tons of money. And almost all of the actors are incredibly awful! I used to love Guiding Light; especially the first episodes shown on German tv, which dated probably from the late 70s/early 80s. The drama of it all! The hair! The dresses! Mexican telenovelas are even better, especially the one that had an eeeevil grandma (I think) wearing a plaid eyepatch. I wish they would show that one again.
Nancy Bristow said on 07.01.08 at 12:58 AM • [link]
Ummm…read a hot romance with a HEA or watch somebody else’s never ending drama over and over and over again…just kill me now. I’d rather die with a good book in my hand:)
KatieO said on 07.01.08 at 01:13 AM • [link]
I got hooked on the ABC soaps in college, thanks to my roommate at the time who is a major All My Children addict. I already had a soft spot for All My Children though due to my parents’ college addiction when it was brand new and because of this little nugget: A Wrinkle in Time author Madeleine L’Engle’s husband, Hugh Franklin, played Dr. Charles Tyler, the patriarch of AMC, from its inception until his cancer forced him to retire in 1986 or 87 (I’m fuzzy on that date).
I’m with Chicklet on the respect for the writers. It’s a crazy job, and great training for TV writing. People always looked at me like I was crazy when I said that was an ideal job. It’s like bootcamp for television writers. Plus, Whoopi makes it look awesome in Soapdish, still one of my favorite movies ever.
Debbie Westlake said on 07.01.08 at 01:26 AM • [link]
Sigh - Melissandre you have given me proof of the generation gap. I used to be on YOUR side of the canyon. I REMEMBER when Dark Shadows first aired on TV. It started around the time of my 13th birthday - 1966 -and I LOVED it. The throes of outraged puberty + sensual (for then) show = me very confused and needy LOL. Unfortunately, the show aired when I got out of school and I always missed the first 15 minutes. Would watch ALL the re-runs during the summer so I could catch up completely. When I started driving in 1969, I MADE my mother watch it so she could tell me what I had missed. Only at the next commercial - if I happened to get home while the show was on NO TALKING was allowed until commercials aired. She was great about that because she absolutely HATED the show!
SBTB - love your site. Thanx for doing the work for the rest of us.
amy lane said on 07.01.08 at 01:31 AM • [link]
I’m with you for basically the same reasons. I LOVE the show that can make an HEA interesting and work—it’s the reason (I think!) that the J.D. Robb series has such a big following. Because watching Eve and Roarke MAKE IT WORK is so much more entertaining than watching Eve break up with Roarke in order to date Feeney, McNab, Trueheart, the Chief, and that one guy she bunked and left before she met Roarke, before they get back together for another two and a half sessions of L-shaped sheet sex!
allison said on 07.01.08 at 01:36 AM • [link]
I’m a big fan of Hollyoaks and Verbotene Liebe (a German soap). I watch the clips on youtube (thank god for youtube). I don’t really find the american soaps to be all that attractive as the acting and scripts seem so much worse than their British/German counterparts.
Then again, it might just be the accents. I’m a sucker for accents.
Joanne said on 07.01.08 at 01:45 AM • [link]
What???? They were fake? Oh holy-disappointment!
My fav memory as a kid was at my friend’s grandma’s house one summer afternoon: The gran came down the stairs in her Sunday-best floral-patterned dress with a flower pinned to her shoulder….. to watch a wedding on one of her soaps. Honestly. She cried. We gaped. My mother stayed an hour after her work to hear all about the “wedding”....... I don’t know, soap operas can’t be bad if women who were that good really loved them.
submit word: single46. I Wish.
ChristineM said on 07.01.08 at 01:51 AM • [link]
I love Dark Shadows! My mom and I used to watch it together when I was younger, and then I picked it up again in college when SciFi was showing it. It had just enough of everything to keep me hooked, including the cheese factor.
I’ve also watchd Passions and Sunset Beach, both, again, when I was in college. Both were completely absurd, though Passions moreso. WTH was up with Sheridan being Princess Di’s bff? Passions was one WTF moment after another. As far as soap time is concerned, I remember one year when the Sunset Beach folk were stuck on an island (Terror Island?) with Ben’s crazy twin brother or something. That and all the kidnapped baby drama!
Now I watch Y&R;and B&B;when I’m on break. The appeal of B&B;is that it is completely insane with all the marriages, the accelerated growth of the children, and completely unbelievable hook-ups. While Y&R;‘s Victor has been married numerous times to the same four women, for some reason, I find that more believable.
snarkhunter said on 07.01.08 at 02:27 AM • [link]
Mala, I’m going to agree with Randi on the race issue. Maybe it’s changed in the past four or five years, but as I recall, one of Passions‘s few positive traits was its diverse character pool. They started out with, if I’m remembering correctly, two white families, one black family, and one Latino family. Interracial relationships were practically the order of the day, and rarely (except when a particularly trollish character was being trollish) were they ever even discussed as such.
As far as I know, that level of integration is rare on soaps. I’d be happy to be wrong—but I want concrete examples. One black character does not a diverse cast make.
Mala said on 07.01.08 at 02:42 AM • [link]
Well, no, snarkhunter, one black character does not always a diverse soap make, just as a genre driven by and large by novels about white aristocracy and white parents of white secret babies with a few interracial romances scattered in isn’t diverse. Them’s just the breaks.
Race issues and soaps are actually something of an ongoing cause of mine. As such, I would definitely cite Passions as being healthily mixed, as well as General Hospital: Night Shift (the parent was doing well for a while, but not so much lately). All My Children has won back points it lost during its very white past few years by having the entire Hubbard family (four members), an additional black teen, and his father on the show. One Life to Live had a solid mix of both blacks and Latinos through the years (waning lately), and The Young and the Restless has had the core characters of the Winters family for a very long time. Unfortunately, despite the upper middle class, white gay teens, As the World Turns is driving the Epic Failboat in the racial diversity department, as is its sister show Guiding Light. The Bold and the Beautiful just brought in a black character, and considering it’s a cast of 12 people, most of whom are related, that’s not bad odds.
Soaps are trying. Sometimes they’re failing, but they’re trying.
Lori said on 07.01.08 at 03:34 AM • [link]
I’ve watched soaps on & off since I was in junior high or high school. I’m currently unemployed so I have at least a passing notion of what’s going on with most of the current crop. I can never watch any one show for very long though because I can’t invest in the characters when it’s a given that no couple can have a happy ending unless they leave the show or one of them dies.
In terms of race & class on soaps I always think of Santa Barbara. At least when it started it was focused on the rich white family, the poor white family & the Latino family. The focus & racial mix shifted a lot over the years, but it started out trying to be diverse and to have a slightly realistic view of class. Of course, that was the only realistic thing they tried. There was some serious WTF? on that show. I happened upon some clips on YouTube a while ago & it was even more insane & cheesetastic than I remembered.
ChristineM said on 07.01.08 at 03:38 AM • [link]
As far as African-American families are concerned, The Young and the Restless has the Winter family, with Neil, Lily and Davon. They used to have Druscilla and Olivia, but they have both exited the show since then. A few years ago Davon was introduced in a story line with his mother, an addict, and he had since been adopted the Winters. Now his aunt and cousin have been introduced, but I haven’t seen in the past few days to figure out where that’s going. And there’s Neil’s girlfriend, whose name I don’t remember.
As far as the introduction of Marcus on The Bold and the Beautiful, he’s also related to the characters. He’s the long-lost son of Eric’s new wife, Donna Logan. They’re all related on that show. I don’t think they know how to move out of the gene pool.
Mala said on 07.01.08 at 03:44 AM • [link]
B&B; is the whitest, most inbred, representation of Los Angeles I have ever seen. It’s kind of hysterical! But Marcus is a great addition and the best part is that no one has blinked an eye at uber-blond Donna being the mother of this handsome young black man. They’re more like, “She’s a golddigging slut who had a secret baby! OMG!”
m3t said on 07.01.08 at 03:53 AM • [link]
The summer I turned 14 the woman I babysat for introduced me to General Hospital and Barbara Cartland romance novels. She had every (I mean every) book ever written. When we were first married, my husband would tape GH and we would watch together (true love). Somewhere along the way, I gave up GH and never read another Barbara Cartland, but never stopped reading romance novels. Oh yeah, still married to the guy who would set the VCR so his new bride wouldn’t miss GH.
Mia said on 07.01.08 at 04:17 AM • [link]
OMG SusiB! I used to watch that telenovela with my mom. :D You’ve brought back some good memories, thanks… And if I remember correctly, the evil granny always coordinated her patch with whatever dress she was wearing. I always wondered if she had an eye patch size hole somewhere on her dress.
ev said on 07.01.08 at 04:23 AM • [link]
Baranbas sucked so good he was baaadddd…....
and I am glad the Hubbard family is back on AMC. I always loved Jesse
ChristineM said on 07.01.08 at 04:45 AM • [link]
mala, I totally agree with your summary of B&B;!
I hardly watch that show for it’s quality. Instead, I enjoy the absurdity of the entire thing, the constant bedhopping, and the fact that it’s only half an hour long, which is plenty long enough for that show. It’s about time that someone new was introduced on that show. What really creeps me out is how they could justify Phoebe and Rick being together, even if he wasn’t really her uncle like everyone thought because… oh, never mind. :)
Jenyfer Matthews said on 07.01.08 at 07:00 AM • [link]
As I recall, the Brady family on DOOL (I can’t use that acronym and not think of Joey on Friends!) own a pub and because the parents were Irish complete with accents, it was implied that they were “common folk”. John / Roman were cops. Not everyone was rich.
I was always interested in how soap opera fans were mostly loyal to a particular network and set of shows. (It was always DOOL and AN for me, though I did briefly watch GH when Luke and Laura were getting married.) Too much trouble to change the channel?? (Of it could be, especially if you were taping it)
Ehren said on 07.01.08 at 07:36 AM • [link]
I don’t like soap operas. They’re boring to me. I prefer to make my own drama if that’s what I want.
Stef said on 07.01.08 at 08:31 AM • [link]
I watched Days and Passions religiously with my mom when I was little (as did my little brother). For years I would plan my summer days around the 1 and 2 o’ clock hours. Once Passions was over, that meant the best part of the day was, too. It was nice because it was a show we could talk about. I also used to watch Y&R;with my grandma, but I stopped ages ago. Now that I am in college, and my mom works, its not the same anymore and I can’t watch it, the storylines just changed too much for me to keep up. But I’ll always have a softspot for them.
They were my first guilty pleasure, and one my mom let me watch, even though romance novels were off-limits. Oh, and Soapdish is one my favorite movies ever. The posters here have good taste. :)
Liz C said on 07.01.08 at 02:13 PM • [link]
He so does rock. And Alexis is certainly better for him than Carly. The only other one of Jax’s wives I’ve even enjoyed him with was Skye. Before they decided Skye was boring and relegated her to bit appearances. How Skye Chandler Other Last Names Quartermaine could be boring, I do not know but they did their damnedest to make sure she was.
snarkhunter said on 07.01.08 at 03:36 PM • [link]
Thanks for the examples, Mala! I am really glad to hear that soaps are getting more diverse…gives me hope for the rest of television.
I made a mistake in my comment last night—I meant to agree with Randi only on the lack of diversity in soap operas, and NOT on the greater diversity of romance novels. Because this: just as a genre driven by and large by novels about white aristocracy and white parents of white secret babies with a few interracial romances scattered in isn’t diverse is totally, totally true. Although how common are secret babies today in non-categories?
Marie-Nicole Ryan said on 07.01.08 at 08:01 PM • [link]
I’ve watched soaps for as many years as I’ve had a television. I also write romanctic suspense. There were many years when I had a day job that I might’ve only seen them when I was off for sick leave or vacation.
Male soap actors are some of the hottest guys on TV and believe me they must have a functioning cell or two because they typically have 30-60 pages of script to memorize daily. I record my faves daily and I can watch them (ABC ones) after I reach my daily writing goal.
SusannaG said on 07.01.08 at 08:02 PM • [link]
I think I’ve seen bits and pieces of most of the current soaps, and some of the defunct ones.
The soap I watched longest was General Hospital, from the era of the weather machine (the show’s response to a writers’ strike - they hired comic book writers) to February 2002. The writing of it had gotten so bad that I couldn’t take it anymore.
I watched As the World Turns second longest, from about 1984ish to 1995 - the Doug Marland era. I’ve checked it out periodically since then, but it hasn’t grabbed me. I think part of their problem is that they don’t USE their veterans (although that is better than some soaps, who have fired them mostly). People who haven’t watched in a while, who might be drawn back in, usually care a lot more about the veteran actors and characters, whom they know and love or love-to-hate, than they do if it’s all new characters and actors.
My grandmother was addicted to Loving. She started watching from the beginning, because a friend’s nephew (or other random relative) had been cast in a minor role. She kept watching long after the role had been recast! It was her only soap, though.
I went to college with friends down the hall who were addicted to The Young and the Restless, which I watched with them sometimes.
I’ve watched All My Children and One Life to Live on occasion. (I described them once to my sister-in-law, who is from Japan, as “the one with Erica Kane” and “the one where everyone has multiple personality disorder.”)
I think I last saw Days when Marlena was being possessed.
Ryan’s Hope and Dark Shadows I’ve seen and enjoyed in reruns, on SoapNet and SciFi respectively.
I think I saw once a tape of - I want to say As the World Turns - from the 1960s, where the heroine’s big dilemma for the episode was finding the rent money. It was the episode cliffhanger, even!
I don’t watch them these days, but I’m open to it in the future. I do miss the newsgroup “rec.arts.tv.soaps.abc” which had some great snark about the ABC soaps, especially All My Children.
Liz C said on 07.01.08 at 08:12 PM • [link]
Which time was that? I don’t even watch Days regularly but I’m pretty sure she’s possessed at least once every 5 years.
This is so true. Jason Thompson is totally dreamy.
SusannaG said on 07.01.08 at 08:33 PM • [link]
Marlena’s been possessed by the Devil more than once?
Oy.
That would be the first time, in the early 90s, then!
Liz C said on 07.01.08 at 08:45 PM • [link]
Marlena’s been possessed by the Devil more than once?
Well I don’t know if it’s always by the Devil. Someone more knowledgeable on Days history than I will need to back me up but I know I was watching a few years ago during a serial killer plot and Marlena ended up being the serial killer only not really because she was possessed or mind-controlled or something.
SusannaG said on 07.01.08 at 10:57 PM • [link]
Sheesh!
SonomaLass said on 07.02.08 at 02:02 AM • [link]
Lori, I think that’s true, but note the term “happy ENDING.” It’s THE END, and in soaps, stuff doesn’t end, it goes on. So unless someone dies or leaves the show, they don’t get an ending, they get an on-going. And ongoing relationships get tested, and sometimes the relationship makes it and sometimes it doesn’t. For example, Joe and Ruth Martin on AMC have been together since almost the beginning; it’s a second marriage for both of them, and he had one affair that I can remember, but they are still married and happy. Sometimes the “true love” stories in soaps remind me very much of romance novels (two people are just meant for each other, you can just tell), but the conventions are different, in large part because of the difference between a limited story arc and an open-ended one. Most soap actors will tell you that they are afraid when their character is happy, because happy means lacking conflict, which soon means lacking story. Once in a while a show manages to pull off a story with a happy couple facing challenges together, but that’s hard to maintain over the long term. The couple either tends to fade into a secondary role or to face challenges that pull them apart, sometimes permanently.
Randi, I don’t think that daytime pushes the social issues as much as it used to (although even those were rare events, that they got away with because so much of the rest of the plotting was more comfortable). When they do address issues, they do it pretty well, though; they have dealt with various addictions, with drunk driving, with incest and abuse, with rape, with the issue of having a child solely to provide a donor for another child who has a medical problem, all in very realistic ways. And several people in this thread have mentioned the gay teenagers on ATWT. Those are just the ones that come to mind; when I stopped working on the book, I made a conscious effort to quit keeping track of such things. And my examples are almost exclusively from As the World Turns and All My Children, because Doug Marland and Agnes Nixon established atmospheres at those shows that encouraged the exploration of social questions, very different from other soaps, especially the Bells’.
Mala, I agree that daytime dramas have some gender issues. You did see women as doctors, lawyers and cops in daytime earlier, more frequently and more easily than in prime time, but you also see a lot of bad gender stereotyping. I have a half-baked theory that some of the gender issues in daytime drama are related to the emphasis on romance, and that they are some of the same issues that we find in the romance novel genre.
Lori said on 07.02.08 at 02:30 AM • [link]
SonomaLass, I understand what you’re saying about the story structure on soaps. Like someone said earlier in the thread, I tend to like my stories with a beginning, a middle & an end. Popping in & out of the various shows allows me to sort of create artificial endings in a medium that doesn’t have them naturally.
About Marlena being possessed—-I’m pretty sure she was only possessed by the devil once. She was evil at other times because she was under Stephano’s mind control or had been replaced by her evil twin (played by the actress’s real life twin sister).
P.N. Elrod said on 07.02.08 at 03:13 PM • [link]
Humph. They did all the paranormal stuff first and better on good ol’ Dark Shadows in the 60s.
Sign me,
Still in love with Barnabas Collins
PennyLane said on 07.02.08 at 07:44 PM • [link]
Romance and soaps have always been linked in my mind—but that’s probably because my mother is heavily into both. She even named my brother after a character on Guiding Light. I recently found out that my friends’ moms gave her grief about letting me watch soaps and read her romances (my friends weren’t allowed to do either), saying that they would “rot my brain” and give me “wrong ideas about men.” According to a good friend, my sweet librarian mother very tartly replied, “I choose to believe that my daughter has the ability to decide what entertains her. She’s smart enough to know the difference between fantasy and reality. When she comes home with a wicked count or something, then I’ll start worrying.” My mom is awesome.
I’m a primetime soap girl. It’s sad, really. I’ve scheduled my grad classes around One Tree Hill. I love it—it’s insane! Psycho Derek, anyone?
I don’t really watch the daytime soaps now. I just don’t have time. I watched General Hospital in high school and college; my friends and I just had to know what happened with Liz and Lucky. (I don’t care who’s playing him now. Jonathan Jackson will always be Lucky to me.) My best friend obsessed with Days of Our Lives. I watched it with her during college—we’d eat lunch in the dorm so she wouldn’t miss it—but I couldn’t get into it. I do wish I’d been able to watch possessed Marlena!
PennyLane said on 07.02.08 at 07:46 PM • [link]
Whoops. *was* obsessed.
Beth said on 07.02.08 at 08:10 PM • [link]
Yep, I’ve watched soaps for many, many years, and will probably do so for many years to come. My level of commitment has gone up and down, but somehow I always come back to them. And it usually takes only one couple or character to turn me on the rest of the show. I’m coming off a five-year run with General Hospital, mostly due to Nikolas and Emily. And talking about the lack of HEA, well, when it comes to this couple, don’t get me started. I’ve watched Days of Our Lives for Jack and Jennifer and Chloe and Brady, watched All My Children for Dixie and Tad (ANOTHER HEA pissed away). And others have come and gone.
To me, soaps are the equivalent of comfort food. They take no effort to watch, they give me a small pleasure in my day, and, unlike mac and cheese, they don’t they don’t make me feel guilty after indulging.
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