Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Mary Jo Putney’s Angel Rogue has a slim, blond hero who’s better charming his way out of trouble than using violence.  It’s a rewrite of one of her traditional Signet regencies, but can’t remember which one now.

Seconding Francis Lymond (Dorothy Dunnett) as the best-ever lean hero (slender even).

Susan Napier, a Mills & Boon/ Harlequin writer, does some interesting things.  I’m actually not madly keen on her books (or indeed any Mills & Boon) but I find myself picking hers up if I see them in second-hand bookshops cos she constantly bucks convention.  For example, in one book, the hero was shorter and younger than the heroine.  In another, the hero was lean, bespectacled, geeky, socially awkward AND a virgin while the heroine was infertile through having contracted an STD in her youth.  She also features a lot of tall, full-figured women.

Somehow I’ve missed out reading Virgina Henley, and after hearing about black leather penile support garments for the humungusness…I’m sooooo happy.  By any chance, does she write erotica under the pen name Carol Lynn (of Ben’s Wildflower fame)?

confirmation wor “size81”

Jean Auel writes the same sort of “OMG his dick is SO HUGE, however will that fit?” crap.

Her entire CLAN OF THE CAVE BEAR SERIES—which became icky and slightly retarded right around VALLEY OF THE HORSES onward—features Jondalar, an early man. He is huge, blonde, blue-eyed (?), with a ginormous schlong and a mad desire to perform oral sex. He doesn’t even like blow jobs much and he thinks doggie-style is kinky and would rather do it in the missionary position ALL DAY LONG.

My favorite paragraphs (the ones I read and didn’t skip over while tearing my hair out) featured Jondular’s various former lovers discussing his huge cock and how it was too bad it never fit entirely inside them.

Can anyone say OUCH?

He picked Ayla as his mate because her coochie was magical and apparently just as long as his penis (yuck). I guess she had a very long torso? Um. Ew.

>>emomeister Francis Crawford of Lymond<

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This alone made it worth checking in today.

Other heroes who don't fit the profile: Armand Sonnier in Pamela Morsi's

Love Charm is shorter than the heroine.  When they dance she can see the part in his hair.

The hero of LaVyrle Spencer’s Morning Glory is skinny to the point of starvation at the beginning, and doesn’t get substantially heftier.

The hero of Georgette Heyer’s The Foundling, Gilly, the Duke of Sale, is described as small and slight.

And finally my all time favorite less than physically massive hero is Jason, the Duke of Torquay—“of medium height and slender as a boy”—from Edith Layton’s absolutely fabulous The Duke’s Wager.

Beefcake heroes leave me indifferent as a physical type. From a strictly visual standpoint, I much prefer the agility of the rapier than the bash of the claymore. Above all, though, I want wit, and it may be that I find the slender sort more congruent with wit than the brawny sort, maybe due to years of football player/debate captain dichotomies.

Katie - so with you on Jean M Auel.  As I recall, the reason Ayla had such a - erm - *deep* coochie was due to the fact that she was brought up by a tribe of neantherthals with - yes, you guessed it - HUGE schlongs.  Hence her ability to accommodate the (surely Fabio-like) Jondalar.  I hated Ayla with a passion. She kept inventing things (like, I dunno, the wheel), and being an amazing healer and working out that babies are created out of sperm and eggs rather than spirits or something.  I always found myself siding with the physically unappealing villains who tried to bring about her downfall.

Oops - that was a bit of an irrelevant off-topic rant.  Sorry!

Mary Jo Putney revised “The Rogue and the Runaway” into “Angel Rogue.”

In Heyer’s “The Masqueraders”, Robin, the brother who dressed as a woman, was slight enough to pass as an attractive female; his sister, Prudence, was described as “junoesque” enough to pass as male; her love interest was one of Heyer’s “big” men, like Hugo in “The Unknown Ajax” and the hero of “The Toll Gate.”

I tend to favor the Zorro-type, lithe, athletic, but not bulky.

Kay

“Anybody remember Virginia Henley’s heroes?  They always had to wear black leather “penile support” garments because their willies were so wonka.”

Gack! *gasp* *snort* WHAT are you trying to do to me??? I’m sitting in my cubicle wiping away tears, trying not to scare my coworks with mad hoots of laughter!

*sniff* hooboy.
anyway, wanted to post my contribution… with contemporaries, anyway. How about Diana Palmer’s heroes? They usually look like the Marlboro Man; slender but fit, and yeah, smoking, too. Can’t have everything, I guess. Also in my experience, most Harlequin Presents have slender heroes, in particular, I’m thinking of Penny Jordan.

Carla Kelly’s “Libby’s London Merchant” features a non-heroic looking hero.  IIRC, he’s the town doctor, is a little chubby, wears glasses, is a little clumsy etc.  Libby has to choose between him and the elegant but dissipated Duke who comes to town.  This is also a book with a “virgin hero”—at the end, Dr. Cook embarrassedly confesses to Libby that he’s never been with a woman (whereas the Duke has had lots of lovers).  Libby chooses Dr. Cook in part because, as she tells the Duke, “He made me a better offer—his whole self.” —sigh— It’s one of those Signets from long ago that ends without going beyond the bedroom door but—such a hero!

Let me just second (or third) the props to Lord Peter Wimsey and the Scarlet Pimpernel.  Although as far as the Pimpernel is concerned, we may be thinking of Leslie Howard’s portrayal instead of the character in the book.  Orczy’s Percy was languid but rather tall and well-built if I remember correctly.

Lord Peter, on the other hand- yowza!  I love, love, love the way he goes after the man who tries to frame Harriet Vane for murder in “Strong Poison”.  The attack is more psychological than physical.

Security word:  manner28.  Sink me if you think I’d write an ill-mannered post.

I am in an OPEN-PLAN OFFICE, you crazy wenches! What in God’s name are you doing, what with the leather ween rags and the Clan of the Cave Bearing?! I just snorked up half a cup of coffee. JEESUS.

Also: ha. I’m mentally searching through my bookshelf to recall the skinny-assed, shoe-gazin’ emo heroes. If I recall correctly, Seth from La Nora’s Chesapeake Blue was rather wiry, being a painter rather than a ship-building kind of man like his brothers. And there have been various book-sellers, journalists, and hot Harvard lawyers in the Roberts oeuvre over the years (oh Ian McGregor, I pine for your pale Waspy perfection).

God. I am the worst employee ever.

Peter Davison’s Campion.  While I am pretty sure that Margery Allingham created her character as a parody of Wimsey he did develop a lot of charm when she toned down some of his mannerisms. 

The early Wimsey was a bit over the top, but just kept getting better in each book.

Right, I’m going to spend the afternoon reading a Sayers mystery instead of getting on with my urban fantasy, and it’s All Your Fault. The lot of you…

I’m fond of tall and kind of scrawny, myself.  I like that in The Nerd Who Loved Me, the hero is described as looking “comfortable” a lot.  Where he kind of fails on the average-looking thing is the super-schlong.  Look, I’m not saying that we need a line of romances about under-endowed heroes, here.  But there’s nothing wrong with average, and average would avoid making many readers think “ouch.”

The hero in Nerd in Shining Armor likes to work out while he ponders solutions to programming issues, but I’ll forgive him the muscle because he needs it for him and the protagonist to live long enough for the book to get started.  Other than them, I don’t really remember where Vicki Lewis Thompson’s nerd heroes fall on the scrawny-to-beefcake scale.

*Tangent*  I used to read V. Henley before I knew better.  Her “Falcon & Dove” or “Dragon & Mistress” type books held my 16 year old self captive for a whole summer.  Luckily I was pointed to some other romance novelists where the heroes weren’t all beastly huge and the heroines delicate virgins.  But yeah.  The suggestions for lean, wiry men are great.  I’ll have to give Dunnett another go since she’s appeared on so many other posts.  Cheers!

All I can say is, whatever you do, don’t read Karen Marie Moning. 

(I was also gonna recommend Angel Rogue. Just grit your teeth and ignore the title, it’s worth it.)

Holy cow, I can’t believe none of us have mentioned Miles Naismith Vorkosigan!  Sure the books are billed as SF, not romance, but what is Miles if not the greatest swashbuckling romantic sf hero ever, even if he is only 4’9”?  I think by the end of the series surgery had stretched him up to 4’11”, but he was still shorter than average.

I vividly recall the scene in one of the earlier “Admiral Naismith” books where he kisses the girl while standing in an anti-grav elevator that brings them up to kissing height.  And by A Civil Campaign his place as a romantic lead was secure.

If you haven’t read the series, start with The Warrior’s Apprentice or to get the dope on Miles’ situation, the also very romantic story of his parents in Shards of Honor.

And Aral Vorkosigan is also described as barely taller than Cordelia and “stocky”.

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I had to laugh at this.  So true!!!Ayla’s like the Mary Sue prototype.  And while I loved Clan of the Cave Bear, I gave up on the series with Valley of the Horses when Jondalar appeared, ‘cause all they ever did from that point on was bump uglies, and even though I was only 15 or 16 at the time, even I knew there was more to life than that. Mostly I just wanted Jondalar to leave Ayla alone so she could go make more white leather out of the deerhide she’d been soaking in a puddle of urine for the past month.

I’m supposed to know better?  Than Henley and Moning?!?!?

Oops! ;)

I know my reasons—- one being I’ve spent my entire life around sick people (it’s my job) so skinny means “Crap, I’m gonna have to carry HIM upstairs!”

So, it just means more work for me….Lil’ ole’ me with my Lizzie Borden like compassion.  I can count on one hand the number of testosterone laden healthy men I’ve been around in the last year, 2, hell, 5 years!!!

They’re a dream of mine.

Ok, I’ll take them slender-ish, but they’d better be healthy!  REALLY healthy.  With lots of manly goodness oozing out of their pores.  Not a sniffle or a glucose monitor in site!

As for schlongs, it’s SUPPOSED to be fantasy, right? (Ouch, ha! Wait until you’ve had the other extreme with a ignorant schlub, then come to me complaining.)

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Well, it’s true that her heroes are beefcakey, but they’re also Scottish, and that has all sorts of redeeming value.

“I’m rich and I’m Scottish.  It doesn’t get any better than that.” (Craig Ferguson from the movie “I’ll Be There.”)

The Nerd Who Loved Me, Nerd in Shining Armor
*I told you so I told you so*

If the title says “Geek” or “Nerd”, he’s a normal-looking guy. How sad is that? OK, he’s still got an abnormally large nerd-baton. But still. Body image typing of a most painful sort!

It’s so unfair. Only normal guys are geeks? What about the true pencil-necks? How do they feel when normal guys appropriate their nerdery?

Worse yet, consider the plight of the short, pudgy, balding-on-top, rug-knuckled guys. They’re perfect no-neck Neanderthal throwbacks for these covers, but nooOOo. Only tall, *body-hair-free* no-necks get to be heros.

Over at Lust Bites, our Crush Wednesday theme last week was “Skinny Boys”. Check it out!

My upcoming coauthored book, A Little Night Music, has a more slender rock-star hero. I’ve never been one for the über-beefy…

Ooh, my submit word is man86!

It’s so unfair. Only normal guys are geeks? What about the true pencil-necks? How do they feel when normal guys appropriate their nerdery?

Look hun, I feel your pain.  Life ain’t fair.  As you get older, you realize just how effin’ unfair it is——romance is even more unfair that RL sadly.

You’ll get your book the day that an over 50, shortlegged, chubby woman (petite is only for tiny!) gets to be the sex object for some cute guy.

Sorry, but dem’s da breaks. 

Which is why romance is fiction, and why I prefer it over RL any day ;)

Holy cow, I can’t believe none of us have mentioned Miles Naismith Vorkosigan!

Oh, yesyesyes! Largely because of of the bitchery, I’ve been devouring those books. I love Miles so much. And I’ll definitely have to check out Dorothy Sayers, because a friend of mine always seems to express gentle appallment at the fact that I’ve never read her.

Hmmm, recommendations of my own. The only romance hero coming to mind for me is Mack from Nora Roberts’s Three Sisters books… the title of which escapes me, even though it was my favorite book in that trilogy. In non-romance, well, my favorite male romantic interest of all time is Calvin O’Keefe from Madeleine L’Engle’s books. He’s described as tall, but I don’t believe he was a beefcake either, and like all the rest of her best characters, he was genuinely smart, and a nice guy. *Swoon*

That book was Heaven and Earth, Shannon, if you’re thinking of the paranormal doctor guy, Mac. Who was kind of ripped, I think, but not the throws-cars-about-for-fun kind. I always get him confused with the second hero in Nora’s Dreams trilogy - Keeping the Dream, maybe? Anyway, he made the heroine lift weights because she was a skinny workaholic. And he cooked. It was hot.

My verification word is “image47.” Ah, we are so shallow around here.

Delicate virgins?  From Virginia Henley?  Are you sure you’re remembering correctly?

Yeah, her guys were buff, but her heroines were anything but delicate.  I still remember Sabra Wilde from her book, THE HAWK AND THE DOVE.  She was clever and quite knowledgable about things.  Same for her heroine in A YEAR AND A DAY, though I can’t remember her name.  She writes very strong women characters, in my memory.

Shannon—

Aren’t the recommendations you pick up here great?  So glad you’ve found the wonderfulness that’s Miles.  In our house, “Ivan, you idiot!” is still a catchphrase.[g]

And I want to thank whomever (I think it was here) recommended The Monk Downstairs by Tim Farrington. What a sweet story!  And the hero was balding, beyond geeky (he’d been a cloistered monk for over 20 years) and not particularly buff.  But I just loved him.

Ah, Alligham’s Campion and Sayer’s Lord Peter. Need to revisit both.

One of my favourite heros is Davey in Jenny Crusie’s Faking it. He’s no beef cake and lives by his wits.

*taking notes*

~Ian McGregor, I pine for your pale Waspy perfection)~

This gave me a really lovely laugh. Thanks.

I very rarely do the beefy hero. I like ‘em lean and lanky. Mmm, David Duchovny, why don’t you love me?

I’m actually writing a nerdy type right now—writes graphic novels. He’s toned—I like ‘em toned, too, but he’s kinda gawky.

Secret word is strength38. Ha.

I’ve got to mention the Angelique books (Sergeanne Golon).  The hero (or rather, husband, who she reunites with in the last book) was, as I recall, slender and a bit effette (though very tough beneath that veneer, quelle surprise).  And actually, was he not really quite old?  God, it’s YEARS since I read those books.  In fact, thinking about that, he may not have been that old.  It may just be that 40 seems old when you’re a 17 year old reader.

This gave me a really lovely laugh. Thanks.

OMG, this is like the time my roommate told a joke and George Clooney laughed. We were all drunk, but still. *Swoons*

I remember in Julie Anne Long’s To Love a Thief, the hero is said to have a bit of a pooch (but is only seen when he’s nekkid, lol).  To be honest, I think most of her heroes are generally normal-sized, but don’t quote me on it.

In general, I’m not big on beefcakes with bulging pectorals.  I find the lanky ones much more attractive, especially if their witting and charming.  ;)

>>It may just be that 40 seems old when you’re a 17 year old reader.<

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Oh, joanna, your comment made me laugh because I remember reading Anya Seton's

Katherine when I was about 16.  At the end of the book the H&H are reunited, he would have been in his early 50’s, she was in her 40’s and they had sex.  My teenage self was totally impressed that two people that old were still interested in sex.

Jayne Anne Krentz did one with a short man. Another one where the hero looked like a junk yard dog.

Bujolds The Sharing Knife‘s Dag is tall, but not well-muscled, old, and has aches and pains.

Secondary romance in Suzanne Brockmann’s The Unsung Hero is another graphic novel artist.  Gawky and dorky and so cute.  The main hero in there is bald—often compared to Bruce Willis—but he’s a SEAL, so still a bit of a beefcake.  Second secondary story (what does that make it?) is an eighty year old fighting cancer who remembers his youth in the French Resistance—not a beefcake either.  Beautifully plotted book—perfect and seamless and nothing is either forced or wasted.  Fabulous book.

It’s so unfair. Only normal guys are geeks? What about the true pencil-necks? How do they feel when normal guys appropriate their nerdery?

Um, nerds come in all shapes and sizes, and if you want me to start listing Guys I’d Call For Free Tech Support between the weights of 130 lbs and somewhat over 200, I can.  Going down to 100 if we include about female nerds (exhibit A would be me), and up considerably more if you want me to include the ones whom I would not want to see anything like described in a romance novel.  The only nerd build I’d have touble believing is beefcake, but the only reason I’m not sure I could buy that is because it’s hard to imagine a nerd investing that kind of time in muscle-building.

All this talk of Jean Auel has given me horrid flashbacks to sophomore year in high school where my Honors English class was assigned Clan of The Cave Bear…try and picture a room full of pretentious (myself included) 15 year olds trying to discuss all that buttsecks with a straight face.

Sidenote - I love DG’s Outlander series, and I always pictured Jamie as a big guy, after all, Red Jamie is often referred to by his impressive size.

I admit to loving KMM (hey, I’m not ashamed!). I like me some beefcakey highlanders, ok?!?

I’m married to a tall (6’4”) skinny nerd - and he’s sexy, and, just for a little TMI - he has some impressive hardware - so I guess he fits the stereotype of tall & skinny geek with a big brain to match his big…gah.

I like what someone mentioned about this being romance, not RL - so, yeah, most of the main characters will be young, beautiful, rich - etc., etc.

I never really thought about it too much, but now that I do, I guess it’s the whole package (personality, behavior, beliefs - as well as looks) that draw me in to like/dislike the hero of a book.

Hey, Han Solo may be the sexiest hero evah, and he is NOT beefcake.

Estelle, there was a hero in one of Jayne Ann Krentz books—don’t quote be, but I believe his name was Stark, and the book was Trust Me—who was the ultimate nerd. He also worked out because a)it relaxed him, and b)it got him out of some tight spots growing up.



ha! spamfoiler: perhaps18

I can’t believe nobody remembered Allegreto from For My Lady’s Heart and Shadow Heart.  He was a very slender youth who grew up to be—I believe, and nothing in her book indicates otherwise—a slim yet beautifully sinewed man.

Rosemary Rogers’s heroes tend to be tall and lanky.

I’ve always been into lean, rather than brawny.  So in my own book, I’ve described my hero, not as a creation of Michelangelo, who favored heft, but of Bernini, whose males are more streamlined.

Word Verification: ones73.

That’s right.  A guy doesn’t need to be much heavier than that.  :-)

“They always had to wear black leather “penile support” garments because their willies were so wonka.” That is just bizzare, I would be interested in seeing pics of that purely for scientific purposes just to see how that apparatus worked….
But it is interesting how the hero and heroine in romancedelia are always the extremes of their gender. The men are always huge in every regard and the women   are normally tiny frail virgins. And not all nerds are frail little weaklings, my bf’s best friend is a giant viking of a man.

My favorite lithe hero is Sir John Smythe from the Vicky Bliss novels by Elizabeth Peters.  He brings the banter, and while he can fight if backed into a corner his first choice is always to run away.

Ah yes, good old Clan of the Cave Bear series. I thought Ayla and Dongdalar and their endless boink fest was so hot—when I was 13. It got old fast before I hit my twenties.

I really do prefer my guys on the wiry side and not too tall, which makes it hard to get into books where the guy’s seven foot tall and wide with a schlong in matching length. It just seems so cookie cutter after a while, and, as others have mentioned, very unrealistic for certain time periods.

I’m definitely taking to-read notes from this discussion.

Sir John Smythe from the Vicky Bliss novels

Ahh! Good one! I love all those things about Sir/John Smythe/Smith/whatever his alias du jour. A self-centered, untrustworthy, unheroic wimp… and he makes us love him for it! Now THAT’s great character development!

Heaven and Earth

. That’s right. I wanted to call it “No One Else On Earth”, but that’s a country song I actively dislike hehe.

Also, does very definitely gay, very definitely not in a romance Vanyel Ashkevron from Mercedes Lackey’s Last Herald Mage trilogy count in this discussion? (I know, I know. There are seriously lots better fantasy books out there, but I have a soft spot for that series in particular.)

I knew that there was a reason I liked Nora Roberts books so much - I prefer my heros to be strong but in a lean sort of way. Long and lanky does not equal weak. I’m pretty thin myself and still have toned arms. Big and bulky is kind of a turn off because it it always makes me think the guys spends too much time in the gym and in front of a mirror preening.

Shameless promo: all the heros I write are normal sort of guys. No one is splitting the seams of the clothes (or inflicting pain with their giant schlong)

Funny that SarahP should mention Loretta Chase, because one of her early Regencies, The Devil’s Delilah, has one of the best nerd heroes ever. <3

<3 Jack Langdon. Also,

The Lion’s Daughter has a true fop of a hero, and Ismal of Captives of the Night isn’t burly, either, though beautiful as an angel.

Two other excellent fop heroes: Jherek Carnelian of Michael Moorcock’s The Dancers at the End of Time series, and Cyn Malloren of Jo Beverley’s My Lady Notorious. No, wait, make that three: Alistair of Miss Wonderful by Loretta Chase is also wonderful, though Alistair is perhaps more fastidious than a true fop. Oh, and then there’s Colin of Meljean Brook’s Demon Moon, but I haven’t read that yet, so I can’t say if it’s any good or not.

Speaking of Meljean: Hugh of Demon Angel strikes me as a fit bicycle nerd type.

I’m almost all the way done with Stardust by Neil Gaiman, and Tristran Thorn is shy, tall and gawky. What a lovely, lovely book.

My favorite physically compact heroes are probably Robin of Angel Rogue and Adrian of Uncommon Vows, both by Mary Jo Putney. They’re both slim, short, blond and angsty, but they deal with the angst in very, very different ways.

Lucien of Barbara Samuel’s Lucien’s Fall strikes me as a lean, sinewy type. He’s quite deeelicious.

Other awesome heroes who struck me as trim/lean, for whatever reason:

Sebastian of Patricia Gaffney’s To Have and to Hold

Ransom of Midsummer Moon, Allegreto of Shadowheart and Gryphon of The Hidden Heart, all by Laura Kinsale.

Obadiah of Sharon Shinn’s Angel-Seeker.

Devon of The Windfolower by Laura London aka Sharon and Tom Curtis.

Alan of Sunshin and Shadow by Sharon and Tom Curtis.

A couple of Anne Stuart’s older books featured slim heroes - Lord of Danger and Prince of Swords.  Both great books with quirky, interesting heroes.

I’ll second, third and fourth Red Jamie from the Outlander series.  Very tall but slim.  Also, try Dorothy Dunnett’s King Hereafter.  King Macbeth is described as tall and very lanky, all knees and elbows.  One of the most brilliant heroes I’ve ever read.

Personally, I’ll pick the lean hero over the beefcake anytime.  Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that regardless of how the hero is described in the book, the beefcake prevails on the cover.  Sales and marketing and all that.

“Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that regardless of how the hero is described in the book, the beefcake prevails on the cover.  Sales and marketing and all that.”

Aw, Grace, it’s the abs that sell the books, remember?

Ah yes, Allegreto - I love Kinsale’s heroes, she is probably my favorite of all time - but again, it’s their overall character development that draws me in. I’m so impressed by how well you all remember the physical details…I tend to forget the specifics! Thanks for all the recommendations of something that is not so run of the mill.

Yes, Lord Percy was big and sleepy.

“Mary Jo Putney’s Angel Rogue has a slim, blond hero who’s better charming his way out of trouble than using violence.”

As this is one of my fav’s Putney’s, I feel the need to point out…Robin was just as good at being charming or knocking someone on their ass. He did not like violence and tried to avoid it, but if he had to throw down, he did it well.

Thanks for all the suggestions though, I have never been a beefcake fan…I like ‘em toned, a swimmers/basketball player type body….yum!

My own addition, is a romancey leaning fantasy series by Moira Moore, the Hero books (horrid covers, don’t match the books at all). Though, Taro, is described as having a slight build, and under average in height, it never seems to stop him from getting laid.

I have to agree, I don’t like the overly muscled men.  What amuses me mostly though is why the hero often has an outstanding physique, whereas his friends have pot bellys even though they all participate in the same amount of debauchery - in some cases the hero is more debauched than his friends.  For example, in “Lord of Scoundrels” Bertie Trent is accused by his sister of getting rather fat, but Dain, who Bertie is trying to keep up with, is described as a stallion!

Some regency men would have gained good thigh and stomach muscles from horse riding, so I suppose that there must ahve been some very physically fit men around at the time.

My DH once pointed out that some of those bulging arm muscles on man-titty covers were useful only for punching oneself in the face. The thrill was gone, baby.

The physique of Fenimore Cooper’s Hawkeye was described thusly: “while muscular, was rather attenuated than full.” That description stayed with me through my seventh theater viewing of LOTM when Daniel Day-Lewis made muscular and “slender, fine, or small” really, incredibly hot.

Hmmm, as a female built roughly on the lines of a small oil tanker (my “fighting weight” is about 180, and I’m not all that tall), I have to say I like more solidly built men. At least then I don’t have to worry about inadvertently snapping them in two by sitting on their laps or getting, ahem, enthusiastic in my affections.

That said, there is something about the elegantly dangerous type that is quite attractive. Big-boned guys can be slightly muscled. I’ve seen it done, and oh, my, done well. I knew this guy who had been a gymnast in college before he grew into himself and sized himself out (he was at least 6’ tall) and while he was a big guy just in terms of how he was built, he was actually quite lean for his size. Absolutely no mantitty, yet still met my requirements for sturdy construction. Best of both worlds, and pardon me while I drool.

Gods, if I could find a romance novel with a guy like that in it, I’d never let it go!

And here I was thinking I was the only one that didn’t get the appeal of the bulging male physique.  Give me toned and lean anyday.  This column made me think of Jennifer Crusie’s novels.  Welcome to Temptation and Faking It.  The guys were fit, but didn’t look like extras for WWF.

I’ll admit that most times when a guy is described as being all huge and hulking, I just tone down the mental image to something in the Hugh Jackman range.  He’s gorgeous and about as muscular as I’d ever like on a guy.

my word: top69 *snort*

This is my first comment.  I’ve been a little intimidated by the smartness and the bitchiness, and I’m such a nerd. Witness the dorkitude:

Once you get away from armor and broadswords,  unless a (historical) hero is rebuilding the family estate with his own hands, it’s implausible he will be really bulky. Gentleman sports (riding, fencing, etc.) favor the leaner frame.

Even in the military, small men had an advantage onboard a ship (Nelson was petite; C.S. Forester’s Horatio Hornblower was tall but he developed the habit of walking stooped over, because he was always banging his head below decks). In the army, cavalry would have great upper body strength, but strength doesn’t necessarily equal bulk. In fact, the more bulk you have, the more your horse has to carry.

Which doesn’t even address nutritional issues.  Er… is that thinking too much?

Anyway. O’Brian’s Jack Aubrey was on the pudgy side, espcially when he’d been on shore for awhile. And he definitely floats my boat. So to speak.

I have to add one more, although he’s not really a romance hero:  Sam Vimes from Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series.  Shorter, slightly built, balding and a recovering alcoholic, but still very much my kind of man.  His best weapon:  his brain.  His second best weapon?  The Vimes Elbow (which deserves capitalization).  He even married an older, heavyset woman so I’m bound to admire him.

Aw, Grace, it’s the abs that sell the books, remember?

Mamanice, that is so true.  In fact, it looks like the man-titty in all its glory is what sells - at least according to the BGI bookbuyer, Sue Grimshaw.  This from Kristin Nelson’s Pub Rants post on 05/16 -

Some interesting romance-specific factoids:

1. Sexy covers continue to sell well
(so take that shirt off…but only if you are a guy)

**sigh**  Ya know, I don’t muscled, but does it always have to be Steroid Man that we see on the covers? 

One of the posters here mentioned Daniel Day Lewis Hawkeye in Last of the Mohicans.  His character in that movie is a perfect example of I’d love to see on a cover and what I like to read regarding a hero’s physique.

Rosemary said: “Anyway. O’Brian’s Jack Aubrey was on the pudgy side, espcially when he’d been on shore for awhile. And he definitely floats my boat. So to speak.”

I’m a Stephen Maturin girl myself—small, thin, dark, ‘almost handsome’—if one could only get him cleaned up. There aren’t too many habitually blood-stained romantic heroes out there.

Lucas Cortez in Kelley Armstrong’s “Women of the Otherworld” series is tall, thin, plain, and a little dull to everyone but the heroine, Paige… Just the way I like ‘em lol.  Smart, a bit geeky, and not “unusually handsome” and nothing is bulging, rippling or struggling for freedom within constricting britches and whatnot.

Two commenters have mentioned Jayne Ann Krentz. I agree—her heroes tend NOT to be beefcakes. I just finished Deep Waters, and the heroine had broken her engagement with a man because he was too tall and large. The heroine’s comment that her ex was “too big” led to a funny misunderstanding on the hero’s part. The hero was about 5’10’’ and lean. But he was, of course, extremely well endowed.