Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Teh 1st chapter or 2 left me scratching my head initially thinking that I mistakenly picked up a book that wasn’t attached to the series, then I got into the swing of things, but without any spoilers:  IT’S A HOT TRANNY MESS

It’s all over the place, it randomly checks in with all the characters and then visits details of secondary characters in a fashion that makes you think, was my last book missing a chapter? Why does it seem like she is reminding me of something I should have previously known, but I don’t?

Okay, I read the book and liked parts of it (Qhuinn, Blaylock, John Matthew and Xhex), while hating other parts (Phury, Cormia, Rehvenge, the entire Lesser/Lash thing).

1.  Dude, penile systems?  Spell-check please, unless she’s talking about a reproductive or urological problem, “penal” is probably the word.

2.  Head hopping—at least 9 povs—does any book need that many?

3.  The texting and tween girl language coming out of the mouths of the BDB reduces their badassitude.  Laters?  Makes me think of Pink from Bend It Like Beckham.  And the faux Texas thoughts/language of Mr. N was cringe-worthy.  Plus, it reminded me of Foghorn Leghorn. 

4.  I get the whole change or die theme, but the complete destruction of the mythology and world building seems not well planned to me.  Of course, it’s Ward’s mythology, so she can do with it as she wishes.

5.  This is me personally—I’m tired of vampire series in which the women see, for the most part, to be broodmares.  Where was Beth, other than one scene with Wrath?  Where was Mary?  Where was Marissa?  Jane was around, except, wait, she’s a freakin’ ghost.

I’m finished with the Khool-Aid.

I of couhrse, whill continue to rhread them

Personally I loved the book. Yeah, there wasn’t a lot of actual romance in that Phury and Cormia didn’t have a lot of together time, but they both had to grow before that could happen and we got to see that. It wasn’t the insta-love that was V and Jane. (Which really chapped my nads, so to speak.) I found it much more satisfying than V& Janes romance.

At this point I am much more interested in the world and the over-arching story. Yes, Phury’s book was mainly set-up for other characters and thier plotlines, but Phury has had plenty of facetime in other books, so I figure it’s all good.

I don’t have a problem with the series vying away from the strictures of ‘romance’ and the ‘HEA’ and more toward an urban fantasy slant. I’m invested in all the characters now and I don’t really care if they don’t all get thier shellans or whatever. I just want the story to continue so we get a resolution. I’d like to see some Omega ass getting kicked, true?

It wasn’t perfect but then no book is. I just really enjoyed it. John Matthew has gotten HAWT. But why do I still feel like a cradle snatcher?

My copy is in a pile of books I’m saving for my trip to Europe, but I have read a few of the comments on Amazon.  My reaction:  where have all these people been?!  They are very upset about multiple subplots, but Ward has been branching out with subplots from about the second book.  Those subplots became more prominant in Butch and Vishous’ books, but they’ve been there all along.  In fact, I like the fact that Ward sets up her future books; her sequels flow together instead of being choppy and episodic.  Maybe there are too many subplots in Lover Enshrined, but people shouldn’t be acting surprised at their presence.

Some people are mourning the loss of romance in favor of urban fantasy.  Maybe it’s just me, but books that use the word “shitkickers” as often as these don’t seem like pure romance.  I’ve been much more interested in the Brothers’ varied transformations from emotionally scarred alpha-males into partners in healing relationships.  If this continues to be the theme of Ward’s works, then I’ll continue to buy them.

These books have never been perfect, but they are perfect mindless escapism.  When confronted with a vampire-loving colleague going through a messy divorce, I lent these books out as therapy.  They were just what the doctor ordered.  If two English teachers can read the books without cringing too much, I don’t see why other people are so upset. Iht’s jhust a boohk!  Qhuit whinihng!

I really liked it. I thought it finally moved the series forward with a great big leap. I also like the bigger parts devoted to John Matthew. Phury I could do without. I thought he just needed to get over himself already. I wish Cormia would have got a clue and found another man but when you’re a cardboard cut-out of a character that’s hardly reasonable. I agree with what’s been said before about the heroines, *yawn*. But I still love the BDB dudes.

I’m reading this book now.
J.R. Ward’s BRD series was one of the first vampire series I got to read.

LOVED THEM! I’m all about the alpha males and these guys really kick ass.

Ward’s writing technique is different switching between scenes and characters like my 3 year old daughter switches outfits, but it’s nothing new for this current book. It keeps the suspense running because the character switch usually happens right when you’re getting really involved so you run through the next scene so you can get back to the scene you are really enjoying. It’s kind of like watching a movie or tv show. They usually don’t follow a direct line through a story, they jump around and they eventually mesh together making perfect sense.

So far I’m loving the book and I’m not even a quarter of the way through. John Matthew is easily one of my favorite characters and I’m so looking forward to seeing what happens with him. Phury is such a good guy I’m really hoping things work out between him and Cormia.

J.R. Ward is one of my favorite authors. Nothing she does will disappoint me in this series.

I have to say that I loved this book. I thought it was a lot better than Lover Unbound and Lover Revealed.

I’ll admit that the Phury/Cormia relationship left me feeling like things hadnt exactly gone anywhere, but their interactions with other characters worked very well for me.

All those multiple subplots and storylines and Big Revelations? Thats what I really liked about the book. I didnt want it to be about just Phury and Cormia because to be honest, I wasnt all excited about either of them. That the book was about the BDB world, not just those two characters, is what appealed to me. I loved all the secondary characters, especially the JM/Blay/Qhuinn storylines. The stuff with Xhex was awesome, the scenes with Rehvenge a great set up for his book (next in line, IIRC), and it was nice to see the Chosen behave as something other than a doormat, if only for a part of the book.

Plus, the wonderful appearance of Lassiter? I had been waiting for that since he first showed up on the message boards, back before Lover Awakened I think it was, and he has remained my favorite character even once I dropped off the boards. 

All in all, if the romance was lacking, really the books arent about that. They’re about the BDB world, and I felt that this one really delivered. It left me wanting so many storylines so badly there really isnt any way I could say I didnt enjoy it.

I liked it much better than Lover Unbound and it does move the stories of John Matthew , the lessers and Rhev along quite nicely.
The product placements made me laugh out loud , the first 50 pages were FULL of name brands, even toothpicks.

I didn’t think much of Phury and Cormia’s love. I didn’t get it, they were barely in the same room with each other and her interactions with John Matthew and Bella were more heartwarming than her scenes with Phury. That said, the direction the book takes with the BDB over all is well worth the read in my opinion.

As Melissandre said, ” These books have never been perfect, but they are perfect mindless escapism.”

I Totally agree!

Wasn’t there all kinds of howling when the last seasons of Buffy were so dark (which was perfect for me, btw, as I was in my own really dark place at the time)? Why does it seem we’ve been down this road many times: fan devotion transmogrifies into more than disappointment when a writer’s vision goes somewhere the fan doesn’t like, didn’t anticipate and now takes as a personal affront by that same writer?

I really liked the book, didn’t love it, although I’ll be reading it again shortly. Haven’t read the amazon comments and won’t because I cannot listen to the on-going outrage of some readers still over Lover Unbound. Honestly, my disappointment, let me show you it—and wave it around while I’m at it.

This is not the same series as begun by the first three books, I get that, and I do miss the banter, the humor and the passion. Lover Enshrined is so much darker in mood and theme—drug addiction, sexual abuse, murder, eye-popping blackmail—and so much broader in scope. It feels real and true, as much as a book about vampires can, and it feels urban, which appeals to me.  If this is where the BDB world is headed, how do you make that light and romantic?

I like the writing, I always have, no matter how over-the-top others feel it is. I love the characters, the details about them that we’re given—this new crop has enormous potential—and am fully invested, no matter where they go. More grit, less romance, I’m OK with that.

It’s also not my name on the cover, just as—surprise!—mine does not hang over the gates at Disneyworld. I open the book the same as I pull the bar across my lap and let Ward and Walt show me what they want me to see. My choice is whether or not to ride, not to yell that they should have gone thataway or added more dips to the tracks.

Shannon covered my reaction pretty well.  I’m about 3/4 of the way through, and I’m pleasantly surprised.  I’d thought Ward had jumped the shark (just learned that phrase, and now I’m using it EVERYWHERE!) because Lover Unbound was really disappointing.

The worldbuilding was always shyte, the lhanghuage was always laughable, and there are plenty of better-constructed novels and series out there.  The BDB books, however, have always been very engaging (except Lover Unbound), and that’s where the series’ strength lies.

She really hit the mark with this one.  She also has addressed the Scribe Virgin issue (if it’s blasphemous to ask her a question and, y’know, be insufficiently reverent toward the goddess, why do ALL the brotherhood and their SO’s get away with it?) and set that up for growth and exploration.  Although I noticed a few times Cormia said Virgin Scribe, which made me go, huh?

Anyway.  I liked it.  Am liking it.

I can accept the change of tone - its definitely morphing into Urban fantasy than straight paranormal romance which I think some readers are having problems with. But I didnt like some parts of Lover Unbound because of the ghost thing and I wasnt keen on Butch’s book but I am interested in the other characters like Rhev, Zhadist and co.
But I think Ward has a problem writing interesting, strong female characters. I just wished they were more developed as the brothers are.

I really enjoyed this one despite quite low expectations after the huge pile of WTF that was LU.

If you are intending on reading these for the romance I think you are going to be extreeeemely disappointed though - Phury and Cormia literally went from almost no interaction to OMG we’re so in love - HEA!

Oh and I’m with JMC on the teenage-girl-speak, that just cracked me up.

However, the story moved at an absolutely cracking pace - I’m loving what she’s done with Lash (finally the Lessers could be more than ‘oooh, we’re the scary mean guys - be afraidz’), the JM/Quinn/Blay story is shaping up to be my fave part and I’m dying to know what she’s gonna do to Rehv.

So yeah, I would totally recommend this one but you are going to be very disappointed if you’re in it for the love - unless it’s of the ‘love for my brothers’ kind. And I think it’s getting obvious that, sadly, the girls are wallpaper in this series only.

I’ve been reading the Amazon forum comments and reviews.

One thing that bugs me somewhat is that some there are saying that Lassiter and Payne are characters that you’d understand IF you read at the JRW message boards.

Now, I’m all for fandom but when a book I purchase is only explainable if I read at the author’s forum then something is off.

I had no idea where Lassiter came from. Vampire’s and Lessers and assorted gods and goddesses but now a fallen angel? Is he a christian angel or what? Is he going to be a main character in a future book? Is he even anatomically correct?  ( anyone else see Dogma? LOL)

Payne’s appearances in the books have been so fleeting that I’m not interested yet other than the thought that she seems to be bad ass but how much you wanna bet she gets “saved” by a big strong man later?

I’m a little irked ! Are there any other author’s that write stories that you only really understand if you’re a rabid fan who spends hours and hours reading message boards?

How about a forward in the book that explains those kind of things to unaware readers?

I loved it.  But I love urban fantasy.

I am still a Ward crack addict but the love story between Phury and Cormia was so weak IMO. Overall Ward is a master storyteller and gave me enough WTF and HUH moments to make me want to go read the next book, which is about my absolute favorite character in the series, the limp pimp, Rehv.
If you are a Ward crack addict you will read this book regardless of what anyone else thinks and her sales will be through the roof.
I give it a B-.
Lassiter and Payne have been mentioned on Ward’s boards and even Lassiter had a bit of a role play from time to time. I think Ward wants her series to be interactive where you go on her boards and interact with her characters. She also gives away TMI also.

Okay, now I’m getting it.  The brou-ha-ha I mean.  I haven’t read it yet, simply because I didn’t know it had been released and I thought LU was such a damn mess that I was giving myself time to decide if I wanted to jump on the crackwagon again. When I saw the comments on Amazon, and I only read a couple, I was a bit disappointed.  I was really hoping things would get back on track with LE, seems I’m bound to be disappointed on that front.  Le sigh.  However, I’ll probably once again buy the crack and see if I can still hang with the Brothers or not.  If not I’ll have to be happy with endless rereads of books 1-3.

However, I want to point out that this shifting of the series from a HEA romance to urban fantasy is not limited to JR Ward.  I started reading Eileen Wilks’ World of the Lupi books, which are shelved in romance, and she has done the same thing.  Book one has a traditional HEA, book two revists the characters from book one and then book three has romantic elements, but really is almost straight urban fantasy.  Is this part of some bigger trend with the editors at the bigger houses?  Maybe they see it as straight paranormal romance is dying out and thus they are setting up a shift to urban fantasy with decreased romantic elements?

My real problem is that this book (a definate Urban Fantasy) was marketed as a romance.  And I bought it as such.  I am more disgusted with myself for thinking that maybe, just maybe, Ward veered off a bit with V’s book and would move back into the romance.  Having enjoyed the series I really wanted to continue with the BDB.  So I bought it.  And read it.

I don’t demand “pure” romance, and I have no problem with “shitkickers” and subplots and various POV’s…  but I do expect a romance.  Especially when I buy one labeled as such. 

When I read a romance, I’m demand a great storyline.  In reverse, when there’s a great storyline, I still demand the romance.  Just my reading preference.

Adios, BDB.

I understand Jolie.  The book classification or misclassification is an issue.

I do wonder about readers that have a limited budget for books (thank God I don’t) and only want to read/buy romance.  How fair is it to them to spend time and money on a book that is not what it is advertised to be?

Sure, there is romance in LE but it is a small small part of the plot.

That’s what I have an issue with Jolie, if these series are moving toward Urban Fantasy and are no longer going to contain the central storyline of a couple who ultimately have a HEA, why are they being marketed as Romance?  Shouldn’t the correct place to shelve them be in Sci-Fi/Fantasy?  I’m still on the fence about reading it, but the HEA issue seems to be bothering me more.

Qadesh, I’m thinking the same thing.  I’ve seen authors go mainstream, but still push the book as a romance. 

Annmarie, exactly.  I think much of the disappoinment is from the romance fans.  I felt like a small bone was tossed to me to keep me interested.  They got me on this one, but never again.  There are too many great romance books out there I’d rather spend my time with.

My main question is, if Ward slowly goes away from the romance label, would she sell more book? Perhaps she feels that only being known as a romance author with urban fantasy undertones, limits her audience?

But for her next book with Rehv, I see heavy sex and romance in that one because his actions and the way his character is being set up.

I too was disappointed in the lack of connection and romance between Phury and Cormia.  I do like how JR wrote in his addictive behaviors without sugar coating them.  JM and Xhex have me very intrigued and I will more than likely buy Rhev’s book.  Not the hardback, but the mass market when it is finally released in that format.

Isn’t this ultimately nothing more than a bait and switch?  Get the consumers addicted to the BDB so that they gobble the books like candy and then, poof, change the genre.  So that ultimately you are no longer buying an orange, you’re now buying an apple.

Why Qadesh, I believe you have said it perfectly!

katiebabs, you could be correct, however how many men will read them if they know they started out as romances?  Sad, but true.  But I suppose she could be following a bit of the LKH series model with these latest changes.  By that I mean the abrupt change to an existing series.

What?  I did?  Wow, that’s a first.

I dunno what everyone’s so heartbroken over.  I am LOVING the book and am only halfway through it.

It’s got everything.  Drama, romance, violence, intrigue….

What more can you ask for?

I read it. I liked it better than LU, but do I love it as much as the first four, hell no. I felt in this book Ward at least tried to put more flesh on her world and her lessers. I dunno why she waited until Book 6 to decide that she needed to do this. Oh wait it’s cos so many people snapped over the hot mess that was LU. 

its’ also about damn time Lassiter showed up in a book. He’s finally canon instead of being a wanna be in the books character. I’ve never understood why I had to go to her message board to get the full story. One would think the story would be in the books given their length.

JRW writes the best BDB fan fiction, eva. It’s all on the message board.

To comment further on Katiebabs message board statement, I’d just like Ward to put everything in the books and more importantly, not brainstorm ideas depending on the mood of the ‘cell.’  I lost it recently when Ward alluded that Quinn’s HEA might be male after the reaction to the kiss. WTF? Make up your mind!

Also, I’m not sure I want to interact with a bunch of fictional characters who have separate lives outside of J.R.Ward’s head. They need to stay INSIDE the books, not out wandering the streets in upstate NY. LOL

But really back on point, the Phurmia portion of LeN just bored me. Perhaps if I didn’t already read their ‘mating’ ceremony on the message board they would have had a much meatier subplot. It was a Phurmia book, but damn if they were only in it for a minute. Don’t even get me started on Phurmia’s first sex hookup.  WTF was THAT?

The JM/Blay/Quinn stuff was wonderful. If it wasn’t for that and Rehv, who IMO brought the ‘bad’ back in badass in the beginning of the book, I wouldn’t have finished it. The first 28 pages are made of ridiculous:  The Wizard/ringwraith (Wizard of Oz meets LOTR crazy), The texan double negative pitchfork maulin lesser, and Cormia’s name brand toothpicks. Really? Do the toothpicks REALLY need a brand name? How utterly ghetto fabulous her books are!

Omg, I’m ranting..LOL

I liked it, but I had to roll with the ridiculous to get through it.  Obviously I didn’t drink enough Khoolaid to squee with delight and give it the Amazon five stars! I’d give it three and that’s being generous!

Oh noes, I have this book sitting right here in front of me! I’ve been looking forward to reading it because I’m hoping after the disappointment Ward heard from her readers over the last one that she gets this one right. Now I’m torn two ways, do I read the comments and find out if it’s worth the time, or do I not read them and read it anyway. Bleah, oh well, not like I have a huge TBR pile anyway right?

I gave it a C+. I’ve decided that the style that she’s gone with in the last three books just isn’t working for me.

Ward, to me, epitomizes the everything and the kitchen sink style of story telling. I just feel like the world has almost gotten away from her a bit. If I’m counting correctly she had eight (8!) storylines cooking during this book and that’s not counting the minor offshoots. I think the overall story is suffering for the massive world she has created. I honestly *loved* the first three books, but have been disappointed enough by the next three that I’m going to stop buying her. She’s had more opportunity than I give most authors to win me back as a reader.

I’m interested to see where she takes the story next, but I think that I’ll wait and just read the spoilers for Lover Avenged and if they intrigue me enough I’ll pick it up in a UBS. I just can’t justify spending the money anymore.

What I don’t get now or before with the reviews of her work is all this anguish. WTF?

I can’t begin to count the number of books I’ve bought since January that were stink-er-roo-off-the-wall and if someone asked I said I didn’t care for it or I wouldn’t continue with that series. I never, not once, thought about throwing myself off a building because the author didn’t write a book I liked. So what is all this about? I’m blown away by the reactions.

I liked it a lot. I like her style of writing, I like her characters and I pretty much knew that there was some dark stuff coming in terms of war and death and changes to the vampire community she created, just from reading the previous book. So what did people think? Like she was going to now write On Golden Vampire or some shit?

Anyway, I have friends emailing me that they love the book and I have others that said they don’t like it that much. I’ve emailed those friends back to ask and none of them are suicidal.
So again I say WTF is with the angst?

I still will go to la’ Nora for romance but I’ll also keep buying the BDB books because I like that every once in a while J.R.Ward does something like the “shot heard round the world” in Lover Unbound. LOL!

Happy Weekend Ladies

Was this the first book where the Shellan’s name wasnt carved into the males back?

Cormia’s name wasn’t carved into Phury’s back because I think and correct me if I am wrong, he is not longer a brother.

But on the message boards, there was this interactive scenario where they staged Phury and Cormia’s mating ceremony and her name in his back. Makes sense? Not to me! LOL

“On Golden Vampire?”  Now that’s a book I’d read!

Me too, Melissandre.  I like the sound of “On Golden Vampire”. 

“You’re my vampire in shining armour.  And don’t you forget it.”  It would also give new meaning to sucking face.  LOL!

As for Joanne’s point about the origin of all the angst, I think for most people the change away from a more traditional HEA is the breaking point for most readers.  Mess with their HEA’s and readers tend to get testy.

I actually liked Lover Enshrined. It was way better than Lover Unbound and Lover Revealed. It lacked the sex that the other two books had, but the writing, spelling errors and overall enjoyability of the book was much better.

That said, it was not romance. Not in the traditional since or the nontraditional sense. It was very much UF with romantic elements.

I think that what most people are opposed to is the lack of romance between the two main characters, and I hesitate to call them that because I don’t think they were the main characters. There was a lot of JM, more than usual, and that’s saying a lot. Then there were his side kicks and everyone else, then there was Phury and Corimia. So if someone picked this book up based on the back blurb, they would be sorely disappointed.

I can see where the extremely mixed reviews are coming from. I had multiple ups and downs while reading, and it took me some days to figure out where I fell on the love/ hate meter. In the end, I liked it. Had the romance been a larger part of the book, I probably would have loved it, as Phury and Cormia, in my opinion were good together, when they were actually together.

Cormia’s name wasn’t carved into Phury’s back because I think and correct me if I am wrong, he is not longer a brother.

Kate, He’s a brother in name only at this point. But he’s The Primale so that makes him a bigger force than a brother.

And I asked someone this same question (about the carving) and was told that it is not a brother tradition to have the name carved, but a vamp tradition. So all vamps get their mate’s name carved on their backs, not just brothers.

There’s no back-carving in the book, because they don’t have the wedding (or whedding, or mating ceremony, or whatever) in the book.  Phury mentions, as they head off to the baby’s ceremony, that they might as well have the mating ceremony at the same time.

I’m trying to imagine picking up the series if it had been marketed as urban fantasy.  I don’t think the worldbuilding is strong enough for that.  I think the BDB belongs in a “Crack Fiction” category, in which you get readers hooked on the shit, and then drag them with you wherever the hell you’re going, and they’ll go because it’s FUN.  So far, Ward hasn’t gone nutso to the degree of LKH, who I don’t read anymore because it’s just way too much work and not nearly enough pleasure.

However, somebody said the next BDB book is coming out in hardcover?  To me, that’s a sure sign the series is going for shit.  Every time a really good paperback series starts coming out hardcover, the writing suffers, and I end up paying WAY more for less story.  Except for Charlaine Harris.  And Lois McMaster Bujold.  They rock.

The introduction of Lassiter made me feel like I’d skipped a crucial paragraph or two, and had missed all previous references to a clearly-well-known character.  I really dislike not getting the whole story in the damn book.  Don’t be making me track down other information in order to get the full effect.  And especially don’t create an in-crowd wink-nudge thread in a story to cater to your fan club that actively excludes other readers.  Bad, bad idea.  Fiction fan clubs (unless you’re Star Trek) just don’t run to the millions of people.

if it had been marketed as urban fantasy.  I don’t think the worldbuilding is strong enough for that.

This!

I think this is the main reason why the fans are taking issue.

The first three were pretty heavy on the romance aspects if you ask me. I am no expert but it seems to me if that is what sold your dang series you might want to keep going that route due to readers expectations and all.

I still have not read these last two books since I am already getting the hint it will not be a pleasant experience.

I never, not once, thought about throwing myself off a building because the author didn’t write a book I liked. So what is all this about? I’m blown away by the reactions.

Book seven of the Harry Potter series affected a lot of its (more obsessive) fans this way. People who were very invested in the possibility of certain romantic relationships (e.g. Harry and Hermione) became apoplectic when those relationships didn’t come to pass—especially if other romantic relationships happened instead (such Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermione, both of which have only been foreshadowed forever.)

I’ve never read any of Ward’s books. Perhaps as a result, I keep reading Phury’s name as “Furry”, and given the modern connotations of that word, I’m having a good giggle over it.

He’s a brother in name only at this point. But he’s The Primale ...
... So all vamps get their mate’s name carved on their backs, not just brothers.

I haven’t read this one yet, but I’m a bit confused on this point. I thought that The Primale was supposed to pop out babies with all the Chosen. I know Cormia is supposed to hold a special place as the first, but he’s got multiple mates. I don’t think his back is big enough for the names of all the Chosen he’s going to have to play stud to.

You know, I get the disappointment.  I’ve shared the same kind when fave historical romance writers suddenly turn modern (and mystery, at that!).  Such a turn-off.  But, believe me, the decision to categorize something as a romance is incredibly broad (and, often as much a PR decision, as anything else).  Diana Gabaldan’s series was promoted as romance, even though she did not really intend that to be its category.  It would have been a huge leap-ola for the publisher to try to pawn what had been a romance series off onto the urban fantasy genre. 

I don’t know that I will like it because I’ve just started.  I’m actually heartened that the focus is not entirely on Phury as I am so over him (my dad had a martyr complex, so I don’t find that sexy).  I am intrigued with what might happen with the other characters.

Of course, I loved Lover Unbound…but I’ve got a thing for BDSM stuff.  Although, my favorite themes are actually about Z.

Book seven of the Harry Potter series affected a lot of its (more obsessive) fans this way. People who were very invested in the possibility of certain romantic relationships (e.g. Harry and Hermione) became apoplectic when those relationships didn’t come to pass—especially if other romantic relationships happened instead (such Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermione, both of which have only been foreshadowed forever.)

Um, the Harry/Hermione shippers were “apoplectic” because the author basically called them “delusional” and claimed that they missed “anvil sized clues”.  No author/artist has the right to to be CRUEL to their fans.  Fans who invested a lot of time and money on her creation.  She, herself, fanned the flames of the shipper wars and then she laughs and mocks the losers?  Yeah, thats classy behaviour right there. *rolls eyes*

As to LEn - sorry but I was very disappointed with it.  I had been waiting for the virgin vampire’s HEA from book 1.  But who was this whiny junkie?  I frankly wished that he would OD on his drugs and put ME out of my misery.

His relationship with Cormia was non-existent.  They had a total of 4, maybe 5, scenes together out of a 500+ page book.  There was no romance between them.  And frankly I don’t know what they found so attractive about each other.  We have a hero who is a self-pitying junkie.  And we have a heroine who is so bland and flat I’m surprised that she didn’t disappear at times, like the resident ghost!

The only parts I liked were the John Matthew and Xhex interactions.  With their book, we may finally get a heroine with a personality and who can kick a little ass.

Ward has changed genres mid-series.  I don’t think it’s fair to fans who have been waiting FROM BOOK 1 for certain character’s HEA.  If she wanted to move into the UF genre, then start another series.  Don’t change this one. 

The sad thing is that when she focused on the romance and the MAIN CHARACTER’S journeys she wrote some pretty wonderful stuff.  LA is an example of this.  I cried reading LA - and I rarely cry at books/movies - because the writing was so evocative.  I felt Z’s pain.  But Phury, I felt like banging his head against the wall.

I think Books 1-3 were hot, interesting and the romance was important to the storyline. She faltered a bit on 4 and 5, made some people upset, and I questioned my interest in the series continuing…With book 6, the romance and hotness is still majorly lacking, but she is branching out with world-building and subplots which I think is essential to a series that didn’t have a very interesting continuation in sight….Did I love Book 6? No. But it did make me think I’ll look up Book 7 and see what’s next.

I don’t think you can call Phury a “Hero” in any sense of the word. He was a bitter, whining junkie. I so didn’t enjoy this book. And I won’t buy the next one. You can’t trick me again.

I loved Lover Enshrined.  But, then, I loved Unbound too.  In fact, Unbound was my second favorite of the entire series (Lover Awakened being my favorite.)  I guess I’ve never really thought of them as straight romance books, either.  Maybe it is a perception problem, but I always think in romance the entire plot revolves around getting the two main characters together.  Sure, there are sub plots, sub characters, sub romances, but it all comes together and links back to hero/heroine HEA.  Great.  These books don’t have that, though.  There are entire sub plots that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the main characters.  So, from that perspective, I can see why people would be pissed off about her books.  For me, though, it comes down to a basic: Do I care about your characters?  Do they do things to piss me off (or feel any other kind of emotion, for that matter)?    Do I care about their interactions with other characters?  Do I want to know what comes next?  As long as that answer continues to be yes, I’ll continue reading. 

All of that said, do I give a fuck about Lassiter?  NO. 

It wasn’t perfect but then no book is. I just really enjoyed it. John Matthew has gotten HAWTBut why do I still feel like a cradle snatcher?

You said it.  And it’s just sooooo wrong.  (but so right!)

As for Phury’‘s name I just don’t get it either. Is it suppose to mean furious? In LEN Phury was in a daze half the time because of his smoking and then injecting and up pops this Wizard dude. Did see any of his “furious” tendencies.
I really think the BDB series will now be marketed as Urban Fantasy regardless of the romance.

I also thought Ward is also working on another series? Also her BDB books will be published once a year now, rather then the old 6-8 months releases. Yup, I admit I am a cellie. :D

I’ve never thought authors owe us anything except for a book.  If I flipped past the cover to find indecipherable babble, then I’d feel cheated.  But it’s the author’s prerogative to take a book or a series in the direction she feels it should go, even if it doesn’t please all fans.  In fact, I think authors’ work suffers in quality when they listen to fans too much (and I didn’t like the Lassiter scenes.  Uh, who’s he and why is he showing up like some big deal?  I bought a book; I don’t want to spend time on a message board to figure it out).  And I doubt that the change is a marketing ploy; it’s hard to pick up a series on the sixth or seventh book.
I thought this one was kind of a mess, even given my allowances for the addictive-but-trashy style Ward has used so far.  So many inconsistencies in her own mythology and characters, so much crammed in that everyone got short shrift.  And I still cannot for the life of me understand how vampires who still have “Old Country” accents talk like Cher in Clueless.

I agree that the series seems to be turning towards urban fantasy ... actually, after Lover Unbound, I suspected that’s where the series was headed so I can’t say I am that surprised.  What I don’t understand is that, if the series is now being turned into urban fantasy, why did she state in her interview at LifetimeTV.com that the series is definitely romance.  The way I see it, the series WAS romance… if the books continue in the same vein as the latest two are, they certainly are not romance.

I am liking the book, but I do miss the one thing that got me hooked on the series to begin with: the romance part as the main plot.  I am a romance reader, I don’t fancy urban fantasy.  I guess depending on what happens on the next one, I’ll not be rushing to get my copies of her books on release day any longer.

On a side note, I fell in love with John from the first book and Rehvenge totally intrigues me, so, well, maybe I’ll just continue reading the series just to follow the bits of storylines that involve them.

I have yet to decide if I am dropping the series or not, I may or may not.  At this point, who knows, maybe I’ll end up interested enough in the non-romantic aspects of the series, but I haven’t made up my mind up yet.  I guess I’ll have to wait and see what happens in the next couple of books.

The urban fantasy aspects may just be the way the books have naturally evolved.  Some authors feel very strongly that it is the characters who dictate the actions of the story.  I’m not saying Ward writes in this way, but she does have interviews on her own website with the characters from her books.  To me, that suggests that her characters have a strong will of their own.  She may still feel that she is writing romance, even if the world she has created has become darker and more urban fantasy-esque than she ever intended.

Also, if she wishes to continue this series, by necessity she must branch out.  All the original Brothers have hooked up (except for Torhment), so if she wants to keep writing about their universe, she has to move the focus to new characters and plot lines.  While I haven’t read LeN yet, I get the feeling from past books that an epic showdown is coming.  The shift away from straight romance may be in service to that climax, which will no doubt be several books away.

I’ve only just got Lover Enshrined and have flicked through it, and based on my flicking I think I will enjoy it more than LU. Okay my flicking was basically reading the John Matthew bits. :)

But for me, it’s not Urban Fantasy either. Not in the way I appreciate UF. Which in general is written in first person (or very tight third as with Personal Demons by Stacia Kane), with strong worldbuilding and is constrained by rules. I think this (for me) is where the urban in urban fantasy comes in - it’s real and tough. In the first book the author sets out the rules of the world, and in subsequent books they may bend them but they can’t break them.

By real I mean if LU had been urban fantasy Jane would have died and stayed dead. I think what I’m getting at is that UF doesn’t always end tied in a pretty bow. I think there is some incredibly well written realistic stuff in the books - John Matthew’s story in particular, what happened to Bella, what happens to Lash in the current book. But look at books like The Devil Inside, Magic Burns, Grimspace (UF in space LOL), Iron Kissed - some of the best UF out there at the moment and I just (personally) can’t include Lover Enshrined in with them. Actually the BDB book for me that’s closest to UF is Dark Lover - which is much more tightly in Wrath and Beth’s POV.

Maybe my major sticking point is the multiple points of view, which you just don’t get in UF. Maybe it isn’t PNR or UF, maybe it’s something new - Urban Paranormal Saga.

First, urban fantasy doesn’t end with a marriage proposal on the last page. At least not since I checked.

BTW LOVED the Dogma reference, rebyj. I thought that too when Lasssiter was introduced. (Just imagine the cheesy Voice Over when he descends in his big shiny light) *G*

OK, re story line. LOVED it. Even loved the flashbacks and head hopping. And I’m a budding writer. Wow. This installment of the series is what Lover Unbound MISSED. Even the resurfacing of an old character (should I spoil, of course) Tohr was handled “realistically” for a fantasy world. Those readers turned off by the brutality and gritty world building in this series should go back to reading Feehan for their HEAs.

So what there are elements of Urban Fantasy? Ultimately a third of the novel was a dance between two people extremely stunted in their emotional maturity. It took some fancy dancing (OMG Swazsy reference. Hum? ) to get them to be together. Culminating in the bathroom scene where one edit is a non-reaction (come on, former enablers can relate to Z) and then jumping to the clueless leading lady going about the motions of starting over while not realizing Phury was that close to the Fade (if he would even go there) was well done. I’m sick of the duos magically “knowing” their mate is in trouble. That is WAAAAY ohverdun.

And the Xhex/John…WOW! I’m hoping that book will be HOT. But really, John needs to get his name, grow up some more, be more dominant, take it from behind a few times from the sin-eater and…

Did I just say that?

As far as Payne goes, she should “save” Lash. Or be killed by Lash, or just plain hook up and lose Lash, or have Lash fall for her and her be a sh*t to him as a Greek tragedy twist. That would be cool.

Last note. If Lassiter had a penis, would he drink tequila? *snort*

Apologies, got sidetracked between Urban Fantasy and Swazsy.

Urban Fantasy: people really die. Not background characters, secondary characters die. No HEA.

Think Moonlighting (which was technically romantic but not a romance because at the end of the ep. Bruce never got on the ball).

Men are more clueless and more real in UF. Women are more ballsy and less clueless in UF.

OK, back to regularly schedule programming.

Thanks for listening.

Aehmee, I disagree with your interpretation of UF. The genera ranges in variety, and I’ve read UF that ended in Happily For Now, which is what the last book ended with. I’ve also read UF where the lead female was naive and had to slowly come into their own.

And it is not a commonality that in UF the main characters die, mostly it is secondary characters. And even if we were going to play that side of the coin, Ward killed off Tohr’s mate. That type of stuff does not happen in romance.

Dressing the book up in a romance cover and putting it in a romance section, does not a romance make.

Those readers turned off by the brutality and gritty world building in this series should go back to reading Feehan for their HEAs.

LOL.  I am not turned off by the “brutality” and the “gritty world building”  IMO, Ward hasn’t done a very good job with her world-building.  She has laws that can’t be broken but then the Scribe Virgin just steps in and waves her magic wand.  For some people.  Others don’t exist on her radar.  *rolls eyes* To me this is a cop-out.  I would have more respect for her world building if she stuck to the rules/laws of her universe. 

And if this book wasn’t UF - where was the romance between the “main characters”?  Actually, where the hell was the main character throughout the book? Oh yeah, getting high and thinking of his no personality mate. 

I’m just so incredibly disappointed with her latest books.  I loved LA. *sob*

I don’t mind if she is moving away from the strictly romance and HEA to a darker, urban novel format.  I think she’ll eventually end up somewhere between.  Not as dark as real dark urban fantasy but not quite the emphasis on romance/HEA that romance demands.

Personally, I felt that the ending of Lover Unbound would have been much better had she killed Jane outright rather than gone with that weird ghost shit.

Anyway, I liked Lover Enshrined in places and disliked it in others.  It is a so-so 3-star for me. 

I totally dug the whole John Matthew/Blay/Qhuinn subplot (which really shouldn’t even be called a subplot as it seemed to take up most of the book).  The best part of the book and it is what made it for me.

I thought Phury/Cormia were just window dressing to give lip service to the idea that somewhere/somehow this is still a romance novel.  Altho, if you check out the spine of the book, it is classified as a ‘signet novel’ whereas the other books are classified as ‘a signet paranormal romance’.  As a couple P&C;were a mess.  Not interesting, no chemistry, they barely spent any time together.  I think Cormia spent more time with Bella and John Matthew than she did with Phury. 

Phury’s pain and the reasons for his addiction seemed almost contrived.  I think as far as the damage to the heroes goes, she hit the right balance of tragedy, sorrow and sheer storytelling pathos with Zsadist the best.  Vishous’s backstory was also harrowing.  Phury’s?  eh… not so much.  It seemed forced.

I love a good villain.  I don’t like the lessers I think as villains they are mindlessly boring.  I hate it when the motivation for anything is simply ‘I just want to destroy you cuz I’m jealous of you.’ Which is basically what the Omega’s motivation is.  To draw a contrast, I look at Lynn Viehl’s Darkyn series.  The villains there are the Brethren.  They are trying to wipe out the Darkyn because they believe they are an abomination to the Church and God.  Meanwhile, the Brethren themselves over time have become corrupt and an abomination to God because of their actions.  They simply don’t realize it because they still believe they are doing God’s work.  Makes them so much more nuanced and interesting. 

I generally like Rhev, but my fear is that Ward is needlessly piling on an already complex character with extra complications..  She has introduced the sympath Princess who is blackmailing Rhev.  Given that Rhev is a sympath, a drug dealer and murdered a high ranking member of the Glymera,  I think his character has enough going on without also being blackmailed.

Strongly disappointed in the lack of presence of the other brothers.  Zsadist and Wrath had pretty meaty parts but Butch, Vishous and Rhage barely spoke three words.  Likewise, Beth, Mary and Marissa.  All of our old favorites were pretty much MIA.

Looking forward to more Lassiter, though and am happy that Tohr is back.

And the Xhex/John…WOW! I’m hoping that book will be HOT. But really, John needs to get his name, grow up some more, be more dominant, take it from behind a few times from the sin-eater and…

Did I just say that?

LOL!!!  Now that was the best thing I’ve read all day.

hahahaha!!!

With all my complaining this series is still the most fun I’ve ever had reading and yacking online about. I reccomend it to people and I know I’ll buy the hard back as soon as I’m able.

The scene with JM and Q vowing to each other had me all teared up and I’m a literary hardass. NOTHING makes ME cry! The book has it’s good points and the bad points are a hoot to get online and debate.

forgot why I was gonna post again in this topic..

Aehmee I’m glad someone got the Dogma reference, I was afraid I was alone in watching Kevin Smith film classics LOL

I had really mixed feelings about this book. Overall, I liked it, but not as much as the first three in the series.

My biggest frustration and disappointment stems from the HUGE build up for this book as *Phury’s* story, and how it was a great love story. Hello? The poor guy ends up being a secondary character in *his OWN* book. The author even dedicates the book to him. If I was Phury, I’d be pissed… I mean, come on.. second fiddle in my own damn story?? :-)

I enjoyed the secondary (third, fourth, etc) plot lines and world building, and the pace of the story was excellent, but I just wanted more of Phury and Cormia’s love story. Call me crazy, but I thought this was a romance novel? Can’t we have both? please? pretty please?

I heard someone say that if you are really craving chinese food, and someone gives you pizza, no matter if this pizza was the best pizza ever created, it still isn’t chinese food. :-)  I really, really was looking forward to chinese food. Maybe with the next book, I’ll be prepped for a bunch of possible entrée choices.

(sorry, long post below; some tiny SPOILERS)

I think why I’m still able to enjoy these books is because for her, I don’t think of them as romances but a series about a group of guys, some finding their way, some finding love, and some dealing with the life they have. (Plus, I haven’t liked any of her heroines- too weak and flat- so the romance was never that great anyways). I’m reading because I want to find out more about John, and now Qhuinn and Blay, and Xheh, and yeah Payne (I’m thinking she’s for Rhev). Also, I really liked Lash adding to the evil side because they finally come off as scary- when he’s explaining what his plans are I’m thinking, yeah, that’ll fucking work and be hard for the Brothers to beat. He’s creating disorder and social unrest and history says that’ll work big time. No more of this I-smell-like-a-baby-and-make-scary-faces shit.

Lassiter was a waste of space (WTF is she adding Dogma- love that movie, :) - to this?). The Scribe Virgin is no longer scary (though, sicne she was “the good one”, I suppose that’s ok). Cormia was a big disappointment; she was someone coming from no knowledge, and it looked like she was getting a spine (or at least more than any other heroine), and then zap!, nothing. What a waste. Part of me is glad Thor is back, but if she tried to give him a romance I’m going to feel way cheated. And if she gives Blay a girl I’ll be pissed.

I won’t buy her in hardback, but I’ll continue to buy her in paperback, because:

-I like her writing style (as in the words and order she puts them in and her analogies more than the extra POVs and lack of order and so on). Ex from a random page: ...he figured Blay went along probably because his inner Emily Post couldn’t handle not being a good host; pg. 354. It makes me smile.

- I want more of the new generation (even Lash is actually evil, as opposed to the bus exhaust who hates his sister).

- Because some of her interactions between characters are wonderful. The scene between Blay and Qhuinn when they’re making up near the end, and the scene when John is about to leave Thor, totally stick in my mind.

If I focus on that stuff and not on the stuff I don’t like (her weak-ass females, her lack of time on “main” characters, her throwing in very random shit like Lassiter, breaking her own universe rules, etc), then I can still enjoy her books. I’m not as excited, but for now they still give me some enjoyment. However, Z’s book was still the best shit to happen.

Or, to sum up my post, she’s like crack and I’m still addicted, even though it’s tasting a little funny and doesn’t quite hit the spot in the same way.

:)

Wow…okay people.  Sometimes there is tragedy in romance and people die.  Sure I’m mostly thinking “the classics” but I’ve also got a memory of a book about two native characters (I know, shocker!) in which the man was hung as the leader of a resistance movement and the woman died on the side of a road - a soldier finding her and “saving” her baby (although the future of an Indian school or starvation on the rez was what was probably in store for it).  They are few and far between, but people do die in romance.

I’m on board the annoyed train as far as Lassiter goes. Clearly Lassiter is someone familiar to the brotherhood, yet I kept thinking I must have skimmed some important chapter somewhere in the book. He might be the most intriguing character ever, but the fact that he’s a result of what was basically fanfic on the Ward MBs who found his way into the BDB published world is highly irritating. After paying $8 for a book, I shouldn’t be made to feel like an outsider at an exclusive JRW clique party. I stay away from the BDB MBs because it’s overly-exclusive, so it sucks mightily that I would need to go there to uncover the Lassiter mystery.

Too, I think adding angels to her ever expanding world is Ward taking the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink approach to worldbuilding. If in every book she adds new creatures and beings, the series moves further and further from having been somewhat grounded in “a” reality. What once really captured my fancy - the idea of vampires as nothing more than a separate species of beings who live peacefully beside humans - has been altered to complete fantasy with each successive title in the series. My ability to suspend disbelief was nearly destroyed by LU, and it hasn’t improved much with LEt.

That said, I did enjoy the JM/Qhuinn/Blay storyline. I do think Ward is trying to recreate the chemistry so many of us loved between Vishous and Butch but throwing in another unrequited homo/heterosexual love story. Unfortunately, the way she handled the V/B relationship so completely disappointed me that I won’t fall for it again.

I can handle the romance taking a back seat to action and the arcs of other characters. Rather that than force something as weak and uninteresting as Phury and Cormia simply so the book can be called a “romance”. If I were a hard-core romance reader who didn’t want to read anything but, I would be mad at Ward for taking her series in another direction. Perhaps she should have started a second, parallel series that followed the UF path. Kind of a spin-off.

I enjoyed the book but the editing was APPALLING. So many typos and grammatical errors, and sentences that didn’t make any kind of sense. Plus, the excess of name-dropping, brand-dropping and pop culture references just made Ward seem pathetic. The book will be outdated in a year.

The first three BDB’s were like chocolate covered goodness. Z is the BDB for me, true. He’s totally captivating. Then came Butch and V.  Not quite as addictive, but ok. Now I have mixed feelings about Phury.  I feel like only a third (and that’s being generous) of the story was actually about P/C.  It was anti-climactic and weak. The sub-plots took over and it was a constant battle against feeling jerked from one place to another, with my brain intact. I found myself skipping the Lesser/Lash parts and the Rhev parts.  Do intend to go back and read them.  John/Blay/Quinn is one sub-plot that won’t be skipped. Those boys have some drama coming up, can’t wait to see where they’re headed.

One other thing bothers me about Ward’s style.  Someone previously mentioned Lassiter and his online message board following. I feel the author should make the books her main connection with readers, not the message board.  Ward is on that board a lot, and posts random scenes about the BDB and future characters.  Fine. Great. But don’t drop a character in the book that only mb readers will have a clue about!  If he’s important enough to do what he did, then explanations are due.

Also, darlynne said:

Why does it seem we’ve been down this road many times: fan devotion transmogrifies into more than disappointment when a writer’s vision goes somewhere the fan doesn’t like, didn’t anticipate and now takes as a personal affront by that same writer?
darlynne

I totally agree. This seems to happen to a lot of authors. I could name two major ones off the top of my head, besides Ward.  Evanovich is one.  Just look at the early reviews for her upcoming book. If one faction isn’t complaining about the direction, the other is.

Here’s a simple reason why I disliked the book:

Don’t name the series, “The Black Dagger Brotherhood”, and then kick the main character out of it a few chapters in. 

Seriously.  Phury just wanders around in a smoke-filled haze the entire book, wallowing in sudden self-pity.  We’ve had Phury’s POV in earlier books, and he never sounded this pathetic.  The Wizard?  Pardon moi, the BRITISH wizard?  Solely set up as such for a timely “wizard of oz” reference and resolution at the end?

He has three meetings with Cormia.  And they’re in love.  And the end of the book?  From Mr. Warrior to Mr. Love Machine.  He’ll just stay up there in the Boonies, laughing heartily at the antics of those idiotic Chosen.  So what if there’s a war out there?  He’s got LOVE to do, my friend! 

And speaking of friends, he has none.  Not even his so-called Brothers, for whom he’s sacrificed everything for.  The so-called heroes of other book kick him the hell out of the mansion without a, “thanks for saving my life, pal.”  No one can even look him in the eye.

I really enjoyed LEn. I have enjoyed all of the books. I was still unsure about the ghost thing with V but I have since gotten used to it. I really agree with Vicky, Shannon, and Darlynne. If I don’t like where an author is going, I get off the train! I still read LKH cause I am just getting on and enjoying the ride. I didn’t much care for Phury but it was nice to get into his head and really understand his addiction. I thought it was well done. I love the POV jumping and the surprises that were revealed. I will be riding the crack train until the end. I don’t care what you call it: paranormal romance or urban fantasy, just so long as you call me when it comes out in stores! Bring on Rehvenge!

Why I disliked the book:

Misclassification - the book was supposed to be a romance and isn’t.  I don’t mind other genres but if remember people, this is a series that started out as paranormal romance and it’s only logical and fair that people following the series expect the key element of romance.  This was missing in LEn.  The blurb on the back of the book should match the actual plot and this was not the case.  I don’t think that’s too much to ask is it??

Absence of main characters -  I expect the main characters to be, well the MAIN characters.  Phury and Cormia were a sub-plot in their own book.  This goes back to the whole classification/marketing issue.  I think if this hadn’t been labeled at Phury’s book, maybe just BDB #6,  I wouldn’t have been so disappointed. 

WAY TOO MANY SUB-PLOTS AND DIFFERENT POV’s!!  Probably my biggest issue with the book.  Someone above pointed out the books have always had sub-plots and that’s true (also something I really enjoy) but this was way too much.  I felt like every 3 pages I was on to a different character and storyline.  It was a very ADDish read to me.  It felt so rushed to me, and stuffed with too much info and characters in an almost desperate attempt to get as much as possible out there. 

Feeling sad for Rhev’s book - Rhev be still my heart!! I worry for his book, which I don’t think will really be his book, but JM (who has just taken over the entire series) Xhex, Qhuinn, Blay, Wrath, Beth, Z, Bella, Boo, Lassiter, Payne, maybe a drop in by the Scribe Virgin….get the point?

Someone else made a good point about Ward’s website which I think could be made into a tv show called “When good websites go bad”  I applaud her involvement with her fans but there is way too much information on there.  Fans shouldn’t have to follow her large and confusing website to stay in touch with the series.  I also have an issue with her saying one thing and then changing her mind.

Amen about the website! Any board that requires an account to read threads is a board I for which I’m not making the small effort required to join.

I like LEn at a mere 99 pages in, and can agree with many of the pros and cons listed so far. I won’t pay hard back prices to keep up with BDB because my reader experience has changed since LR. I continue to reread DL-LA, but haven’t touched LR or LU since the first reads. And I was an uber Butch fan and loved the B-V tension!

I don’t begrudge an author the opportunity to grow a series, but an initial appeal of the BDB was the handful of Brothers promised to limit the to series to a small number of books Ward’s writing skill could successfully sustain. At the most, I expected a spin off for the BDB youngins and Zero Sum management.

Instead, I felt LR began the series decline with the change from character driven to plot driven stories. I like both, but can only take so many standoffs in the ZS parking lot. I actually photocopied Z and Bella’s reunion scene and kept it on my desk at work. Stuff like that gets me every time. Fiftyleven shitkickers up a lesser’s ass,  not so much.

Do you know what I like about Ward’s BDB books?  They are addictive page turners.  Recently, I’ve read a number of books where I’ve got half way through and thought “can I be bothered to finish this?”, not with Ward.  I may get to the end and think WTF? but I’m never bored.  I really liked the mulitple voices in LE.  It kept it interesting, it kept me reading.  So what that the romance was rubbish?  The other characters more than made up for the lack of personality in the H/H.  I read and re-read Ward’s books because they are pure escapism - isn’t that why most of us read books that are Romance or Urban Fantasy?

I guess I see why some folks are upset, but I enjoyed the book more than I expected.  I honestly wasn’t very excited about Phury and Cormia’s story.  Phury is, IMO, the least interesting of the brothers and Cormia is so dull as to be a non-entity as a heroine.  The only reason I bought the book is because I knew I would miss parts of other, more interesting stories if I skipped this one.  So, the fact that less time was spent with the main couple worked for me.  Now, if Rehvenge and John Matthew get the same treatment I will be pissed because those are stories I am really looking forward to. 

My thoughts after finishing the book and before reading this and finding out that some people are actually mad about how the book was written were that Ward realized she had painted herself into a corner by not making either of these characters strong enough to carry the book so she used the opportunity to move some of the other story lines along. 

Whatever the deal was, I liked the book.  It is not my favorite BDB but it was worth my time and money so I am not complaining and I’m still gonna buy the next one.

Regardless of my issues with the book, I’m definitely not “mad” at Ward. I may complain, but I think she’s still one of the best storytellers around. I kept turning the pages of LEn like a woman obsessed, so from that aspect she’s got nothing to apologize for. I just got caught up in aspects that I never expected to find in the first place - the JM/Qhuinn/Blay stuff - and missed the hot romance that I’ve come to expect from BDB books as well as the interaction between the Brothers.

One thing for certain, I won’t be paying hardcover prices. I’ll wait for the mass markets to come out to complete my collection. That’s a pet peeve I have - a writer who switches to hardcover mid-way through a series (hello, Suzann Brockmann). It messes up my collection unless I hold out for the paperback. Plus, I feel somewhat used in that I’ve been hooked and then told I have to trade up if I want to keep getting my fix. Well, I suppose that’s what the public library is for.

I had a hard time understanding the whole we’re kicking Phury out of the Brotherhood idea.  Where was Vishous to help with the guy that got him out of the Primale job?  How come everyone was just ready to boot him out the door when he wasn’t really doing anything he hadn’t been doing for the last 200 years?

Phury probably should have done the deed with some of the other Chosen.  Then him and Cormia would have had some issues that they could have worked with.  Addiction doesn’t leave much room for bonding and falling in love.

I think the gist of it was that Phury was just getting so bad that it’s sort of like an intervention, everybody’s supposed to back off and quit enabling? Enough is enough kind of attitude. But it wasn’t logical in that it wasn’t made out to be that huge of a problem in earlier books, and then this book was so weak in regards to interpersonal relationships between Phury and pretty much anyone else including the heroine, so nothing gets explained and the being kicked out seems to come out of left field.

I agree with lots of what’s been posted already but am not jumping ship yet. Maybe. I’ll certainly wait to see what’s being said before laying out the cash next time, and there’s certainly no way I’m paying hardcover prices.

I enjoyed the story for the most part.  My biggest complaint was not enough sex, plain and simple.  JR Ward writes EXCELLENT sex and there just wasn’t enough in this book.

But I’m looking forward to seeing where the rest of it all goes - I just hope the excellent sex comes back.

I wouldn’t call myself a “rabid fan” but I have read all of the books in J. R. Ward’s, “Black Daggar Brotherhood”, series and enjoyed all the books. However, I did not enjoy “Lover Enshrined”, for a number of reasons.

First, while I can appreciate the efforts on the part of the author to develop new storylines and plots within the series, there were just too many new ones introduced in this book. In fact, it became very confusing, resulting in a labourious and sometimes boring read.

Second, the development of secondary characters and, the introduction of new characters within the storylines overwhelmed “Phury’s” story. The romance plot concerning “Phury and Cormia”, was really under developed and essentially got swallowed up in the mess.

Third, the “wizard”, Phury’s psychotic, italicized ever present schizophrenic “voice” was not explained making it very difficult for the reader to understand what or “who” this thing or guy was. In fact, I found it damn annoying that what little page time was devoted to “Phury” had the good old “wizard” there whispering nonsense in his ear. It was just weird.

Fourth, the editing of the book was terrible, not only were there inumerable type “O’s”, but the text messaging wasn’t explained and was difficult to understand for those of us not accustomed to “text message” speak. Further, the slang language used was also very difficult to decipher at times, the “Texas Lessor” speak as an example. Don’t get me wrong, I quite enjoyed Ward’s humour in the other books and am no prude, and the use of profanity by the “Brothers”, was quite entertaining, some of that popped up here and there in this book but was few and far between.

I could offer other comments but won’t belabour my points any further.

I have tried to contribute a few constructive points to the various threads of conversation going on over at the Amazon website. And, in reviewing many of the conversations I have to agree with you, there are a lot of passionate, over the top readers of this series out there. I like to think I am a pretty voracious reader and I enjoy many different types of literature. There are just too many really good paranormal romance writers and series out there to get too bent out of shape about one book or series. I just won’t pick up any more of the books in the Black Daggar Brotherhood series because it doesn’t interest me anymore.

Anyway, just one person’s opinion. Thank you for the opportunity to express some thoughts.

Josie spake thusly:

So yeah, I would totally recommend this one but you are going to be very disappointed if you’re in it for the love - unless it’s of the ‘love for my brothers’ kind.

Truer words never spoken.  This series, from the start, has been about the Brotherhood.  It’s a BROmance, not a ROmance. 

Yeah, Ward can tip into inauthenticity at times.  (I almost laughed early on when Phury “rolled a fattie,” and the text messaging dialogue about made me choke on my own saliva - LOLZ!!) - but these men are TO.DIE.FOR.  For me, it’s always been about the Brothers, their relationships with each other.  About the Brotherhood.  I personally would have loved Butch and V gettin’ it on in the last book, and had no problem with LU’s resolution.
I love Urban Fantasy, and don’t particularly need a neatly-tied HEA, so I’ve enjoyed each book, and will definitely hang with the series.

I agree that this series seems to be moving more toward Urban Fantasy than Romance, and I’m OK with that. I’ll keep reading for one reason—Ward’s female characters are just now starting to get interesting with the introduction of Xhex and Payne, not to mention we might see some of the Chosen take on a new role. Ward may have lost readers over LE, readers who won’t get to see some interesting female characters.

I’m very disappointed in the Phury/Cormia storyline, mostly because important aspects of Cormia’s transformation happened off-screen. She had quite a lot of potential as a trailblazer, but the character didn’t quite live up to that. There’s a plotline about vampire female’s emancipation going on, but Ward doesn’t take it as far as I’d prefer. How the Otherside has changed might push this aspect of the series into a new direction. I really hope so.

I’m not crazy about how Xhex has a name that objectifies her sexually,  but there’s a precedent set there with Zzadist, so OK. I liked how Z’s healing isn’t immediate, that we get to see him struggling with many aspects of it. I’m was seriously squicked out by Rhev’s sex scene with the Sympath, though. I’m interested in finding out what happens to him, but I can’t see Rhev with either a human or a Sympath after that scene. Depending on how this is handled, the series could be reinvigorated or jump the shark for me.

I want to know more about the vampire community out west that Qhuinn planned to head for, and I loved the JM-Qhuinn-Blay storyline. I also felt better about Jane’s fate after having seen how she interacts with people in LE.

LeaF said:

Third, the “wizard”, Phury’s psychotic, italicized ever present schizophrenic “voice” was not explained making it very difficult for the reader to understand what or “who” this thing or guy was. In fact, I found it damn annoying that what little page time was devoted to “Phury” had the good old “wizard” there whispering nonsense in his ear. It was just weird.

And…why, in the name of the Scribe Virgin, was the wizard British???

LOL - good question and point MaryKate. Maybe it was from the translated “15th century bard”, dialogue from the Chosen? lol

I’m not crazy about how Xhex has a name that objectifies her sexually, but there’s a precedent set there with Zzadist, so OK.

Do you know how long it took me to figure out her name was Sex?  In my head, I pronounced it Zecks, and I kept thinking “her name is zest, but with a k” instead of “her name means sexxah mcsexerson”.  Honestly, DAYs after finishing the book, I’m like “zecks? really?  oh wait.. sex!!!”

And also, the whole book I kept thinking how Qhuinn really got the short end in the bad-ass names department.  Vicious, Wrath, Fury, Rage, Sadist.. and Quinn? 

Which goes to show, not a great book.  All I could think during Zsadist’s book was “oh.  oh.  yes.”

Honestly, if Ward had written two books—one just with Phury and Cormia’s story (hopefully fleshed out and better) and one with all the other stuff and no romance, I would have preferred it.

I’m not crazy about how Xhex has a name that objectifies her sexually, but there’s a precedent set there with Zzadist, so OK.

I always thought her name meant Hex LOL

I always thought her name meant Hex LOL

Gee, I guess that tells you where my head is at while reading a Ward book…doesn’t it?

All I could think of was “okay, Xena Warrior Princess”. Therefore the pronunciation must be Zex??? lol

In my head I have been pronouncing it like Zex, and seeing it as a combo of sex + hex.

Qhuinn did get a bad deal with his name, but John-Matthew’s name beats even that. He didn’t even have a deadly sounding name his first time around. Right after I read the first book, I wrote a blog post about what would Wrath and Beth name their children? If they had a son, would Beth name him Todd? Todd the vampire. Actually, Todd and the Vampires would make a great band name.

An inconsitency I think?

When Butch became a member of the Brotherhood, did they not say the only way out was death? If Phury was ” kicked out” they shoulda toasted him!! Then we’d have something else to bitch about LOL

Qhuinn did get a bad deal with his name, but John-Matthew’s name beats even that. He didn’t even have a deadly sounding name his first time around. Right after I read the first book, I wrote a blog post about what would Wrath and Beth name their children? If they had a son, would Beth name him Todd? Todd the vampire. Actually, Todd and the Vampires would make a great band name.

Wouldnt that really be Thod? - but it sounds too much like THUD. But then again with Wrath being his father thats probably the reactions of many women when they meet him :D

He didn’t even have a deadly sounding name his first time around.

Meaning Darius?

Can someone explain something to me?  The whole theory that JM is Darius reincarnated (and Ward does seem to hint that way). . . How does that work if JM and Darius were alive at the same time, for 20 years? 

PS I liked the book, but more for what were supposed to be secondary stories.  Phury and Cormia were about as meh as can be.

Wouldnt that really be Thod? - but it sounds too much like THUD. But then again with Wrath being his father thats probably the reactions of many women when they meet him :D

Thod - LMAO. Love it! I think the best name out of the whole bunch is Tohr. It works in its short and long form.

Can someone explain something to me?  The whole theory that JM is Darius reincarnated (and Ward does seem to hint that way). . . How does that work if JM and Darius were alive at the same time, for 20 years?

I have no idea. I just chalked it up to the Scribe Virgin being able to do what she wants. It really doesn’t quite make sense.

It really doesn’t quite make sense.

Nope, it doesn’t.  And more than that, I feel like if that turns out to be true it will entirely negate his whole traumatic young life.  No one loved you and you had a shit life?  It’s okay, that was just some soul-less version of you because you hadn’t been reincarnated yet.  Got raped in the stairwell?  No big deal—you we’ren’t *real* yet.

I feel like if that turns out to be true it will entirely negate his whole traumatic young life.

I don’t follow you. I have always assumed he would have memories from both lives once his true self was revealed, so I don’t see how his J-M experiences would be negated. The weird part would be Beth discovering the kid she saw as a brother was actually her dad.

I believe that Xhex is pronounced Hex.  I was thinking just plain “X”, but JR I believe confirmed that it’s Hex.  :)

I’m glad it’s pronounced Hex instead of Zex, but I’d never have known that otherwise. I’ll have to mentally adjust it to Hhex or something when I read.

The whole theory that JM is Darius reincarnated (and Ward does seem to hint that way). . . How does that work if JM and Darius were alive at the same time, for 20 years?

Yeah, this made me pause for a bit.  Quantum physics seems to indicate that time doesn’t happen in a linear fashion…?  But, honestly, the inconsistencies and implausibilities of the BDB universe are such that I’ve given up trying to make sense of them, and am just going along for the ride.  It’s a fun ride, but it’s not a logically consistent one.

I think this is one of the things that defenders of romance find so frustrating.  The worldbuilding for paranormal romances is generally really weak, but we buy them anyway because we’re enjoying the story and are more able than (for instance) SFF fans to suspend disbelief.

So, when we’re looking for paranormals to recommend to SFF readers to show them that romance can be fun, engaging, thought-provoking, and well-written, we often get egg on our faces because of the holes in the worldbuilding that we just can’t defend.  It comes across as laziness or stupidity on the part of the authors, and on the part of the readers who enjoy such under-par work.

Regarding the Phury/Cormia storyline, the big disappointment for me was that I was looking forward to seeing how Ward would handle a polygamous /polyamourous marriage for Phury and His Women, and OMG the potential for conflict and relationship building!!!  But she copped out and made Phury and Cormia fall in lurve, and the poor virgin warrior can’t get it up for anybody but his One True Chosen.

group98:  Heh.  That would be one heck of a relationship to work out.

I believe that Xhex is pronounced Hex.  I was thinking just plain “X”, but JR I believe confirmed that it’s Hex.

She’ll always be Zex for me, I’m afraid. That’s the problem with choosing to give oddly-spelled names to your characters. I keep wondering how we are supposed to pronounce all of those “dh” words. I think you might need a degree in Old Norse to be able to read BDB correctly.

Regarding the Phury/Cormia storyline, the big disappointment for me was that I was looking forward to seeing how Ward would handle a polygamous /polyamourous marriage for Phury and His Women, and OMG the potential for conflict and relationship building!!!

My thoughts exactly! What a great conflict. Phury falls in love with Cormia but he has to do his duty at Primale. How does he cope? But no, we get a cop out instead.

As for Jane the Ghost, every time she showed up in LEn, I got the sense that Ward is still trying to ret-con her way out of that goof-up. Over and over again we got reminded that Doc Jane might be a ghost, but she becomes completely corporeal, just like a real girl!, so really, it’s all cool. Not buying it.

And speaking of friends, he has none.  Not even his so-called Brothers, for whom he’s sacrificed everything for.  The so-called heroes of other book kick him the hell out of the mansion without a, “thanks for saving my life, pal.” No one can even look him in the eye.
deeemer

Yes! Thank you! I know that sometimes when you’re dealing with someone who’s addicted to drugs you have to let them hit rock bottom, but the way they dealt with Phury’s addiction was bullshit. At the very least I think Ward could have show the other brother’s fight and agonize over the decision to kick him out of the brotherhood but all we got is a couple sentences. “You’re out.” That’s it? That’s IT?! The most generous and giving of all the brothers, the one who has given up the most, the one who’s sacrifices have had a profound effect on the lives of not just one but two brothers is kicked out on his ass just like that?

I thought these guys were supposed to be ride or die for each other but I didn’t see that in this book at all. There was no loyalty towards the brother who deserves it the most. Clearly, becoming the Primale was the straw that broke Phury’s spirit. Z knew that and it didn’t occur to him or anyone else to try and help him out a little? Anybody want to lend a hand to the man struggling to keep it together? No? I’d read a chapter, shake my head, and think: You ‘effing ungrateful bastards (or maybe bhastards).

I didn’t like Cormia one bit. If the most interesting thing about a character is that she makes models out of peas and toothpicks then something has gone horribly wrong. And I honestly didn’t believe that she loved Phury at all. She had him believing that he’d sexually assaulted her because . . . ? I’m still unsure about that.

The book did have it’s good points, I thought Xhex and John Matthew have a very interesting—and hot!—relationship. Plus, I loved the interaction with John, Quinn, and Blaylock. I like that fact that the lessers might actually become a more serious threat. Before I had trouble believing that vampires were on the brink of extinction against enemies so easily defeated by the brotherhood. I think the book had major problems: bad characterization, unrealistic dialogue, inconsistencies in the world she’s created, etc. But that’s nothing new. I enjoyed it, the same way I enjoy McDonald’s hamburgers—no substance, but still tasty. I’ll definitely still be reading.

I had aaaaall kinds of problems with this book - probably too many to list. If I compare the quality of the storytelling, the building of the characters and romance to say, Lover Eternal there’s just no comparison. There are quite a few errors in the grammar, a lot of poor phrasing, weak characterization.. Even without my beefs about the lack of romance, it’s just okay at best for me. When there’s more heat and eroticism (not to mention more description) in a scene between two secondary characters compared to the supposed hero and heroine, you know the book’s got problems.

Qhuinn did get a bad deal with his name, but John-Matthew’s name beats even that. He didn’t even have a deadly sounding name his first time around.

JM’s vampire name is Tehrror.  He’d put that on the bracelet he made.  It was what Bella saw that made her realize that he was pretrans vamp.

Yup, chalk me up as another “Zex” thinker.

Out of all the inconsistencies, the J-M/Darius thing is the one that bugs me the most.  Ugh. And when they kicked Phury out, I was like, ummm, WTF? Z did that shit to lessers and everyone was like, oh, it’s just Z. V and Butch knocked back Grey Goose all the f-ing time, but whatever. But Phury does it and whoa, get him out before he brings our name down. 

Qhuinn. All I can think of is Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. However, the extra h’s never bother me. A stupid way to show the difference between vampires/humans, but whatever, she’s been doing it since the beginning.

but the text messaging wasn’t explained and was difficult to understand for those of us not accustomed to “text message” speak

*cough* she did it wrong, that’s why *cough* I was able to translate it in my head but she took out the wrong letters sometimes and it just bugged me.

The worldbuilding for paranormal romances is generally really weak, but we buy them anyway because we’re enjoying the story and are more able than (for instance) SFF fans to suspend disbelief. So, when we’re looking for paranormals to recommend to SFF readers to show them that romance can be fun, engaging, thought-provoking, and well-written, we often get egg on our faces because of the holes in the worldbuilding that we just can’t defend.

Ok, this is really interesting to me, because thinking about it I am more willing to let things slide in paranormal romance world building than I am in books marketed as SF/fantasy. Anyone else?