Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Seems to me everyone in that discussion went into passionate overload. The writer (no, she isn’t me. I’d have made a bunch more typos) did say she hated the idea of having typos and other mistakes in her mss—she didn’t say she thought they were a-okay…

Or maybe she did once the argument heated up and I missed it? I got to the first “and the horse you rode in on” and abandoned it.

I love reading AAR but I’m glad to be reminded why I shouldn’t post there.

I think we should have a gigantic eBay ARC auction and use the proceeds to hire a hacker to ID said “romance author”.

Adele Ashworth posted too, and didn’t do too badly—if you’re going to join in that kind of discussion it’s hard not to get to whimpery or angry.

I still argue that the best policy is to pretend you don’t see it. I think I’ll write a whole book based on this. . . http://romanceunleashed.com/blog/?p=363
....or if you can swing it, do like DDD.

Best part of the whole thread was Robin’s suggestion to hire a grad student. Oh. Duh.

Typos do happen. Despite all the major technological advances in the publishing industry, humans still edit the books. Human eyes get tired, human brains see what’s not there, or miss what is there.

BUT.

IMO,the correct response is not, “Well, who cares, it’s a romance, don’t be so damned picky, silly reader who pays my damned royalties.” The correct response should be the editor going, “Oh, shit, my bad. Sorry, author.” At least, that’s my response. And the big boys should have the staff in place to do the stuff right.

That attitude of “who cares” is especially prevalent in erotica and erotic romance, and it PISSES ME OFF. I have had people complain that edits were ‘too nitpicky’. That editing “takes too long.” that “People don’t read these books for the plot.”

If the authors don’t take it seriously, why should anyone else?

To me, there is nothing more beautiful than the written word and to have it butchered beyond recognition hurts me more than I can say.

I don’t care what form the writing is in, be it a work of fiction, a technical manual or a legal document, but any form of published or public document needs to be free of typographical and grammatical errors.

What I didn’t like was the tone that correctness and accuracy of the written form only matter in certain situations and not in others.

Hmmmmm. I should gear up into rant-mode, huh? Instead of wandering off on tangents? (What a nice shade of green is that sky over that tornado.)

Naw, every discussion should have someone in the corner talking to herself. Just call me Aunt Emmeline (a literary allusion: Wodehouse.)

A bit more mumbling . . .and now perhaps I’ll go collect a few cats.

and perhaps a rabbit.
I should like to have a baby bunny as well.

dodder, dodder, mumble,
AE

Strangely enough, I regularly only read here (Smart Bitches) and AAR. It’s like being in a room with William F. Buckley and Gloria Steinem.

I write romances. And I am not the Anonymous Author. I felt compelled to post this. I have had several glasses of wine and a B&B.
Holly

Seems to me everyone in that discussion went into passionate overload.

Hey, what can I say? It’s finals and I’m pretty much chained to my computer and surrounded by piles and piles of unstapled papers and heavy books (note to anyone who thinks it might be fun to go back to school: Just. Say. No.).  AAR is a good diversion, and it keeps me from venting in a way that would cause harm to those I love.  God bless “romance author.”  Now, if anyone could figure out who she is so I can send her my personally highlighted copy of Duke of Scandal to enjoy, I’d really appreciate it.

It’s finals and I’m pretty much chained to my computer and surrounded by piles and piles of unstapled papers and heavy books

I take it that means you’re not one of the students available to do proofing for cash?

Geez that “author” needs a reality check of some kind. I just finished my first bit of erotica writing and I panicked because I shared it with friends and then realized I’d made a continuity error involving a corset. No one else seemed to notice it, though, but I’m still irked that it’s there and I know it’s my fault.
If I can muster enough ire to get my nose out of joint and panic over a crappy bit of amateurish scribbling I’ve done, this “author”, be they published or not, should take a modicum of pride in his/her work.

Kate: I adore you. Cats and rabbits, dodder dodder mumble indeed. I may have exaggerated by saying that “romance author” was arguing that the mechanics of language didn’t matter, but she comes pretty damn close by trying to claim that it’s all about the author’s individual style, dammit (doing this in the face of the wonderfully incoherent sentence Robin quoted was…well, either blissfully ignorant or wonderfully stubborn, or a magic combination of the two) and playing the “oh you picky, pedantic readers and your love of tearing apart an author’s book because you’re all so goshdarn mean” card. Fuck that shit. Bad grammar is bad grammar, and telling readers we’re being picky is NOT a valid defense.

I’ve heard that one too many times myself. Don’t change that, it’s my VOICE. As you said, bad is bad. My personal winner was a submission I got that told me the misspellings in the manuscript were deliberate, and could not be changed. Sigh…

Okay, now I’m really panicing!

I’m going to come out of a particular comfortable closet and admit that I am a soon to be published dyslexic writer Though I haven’t told my publisher yet. possibly thay have already guessed?! My nightmare is me being chased by dictionaries. Or English teachers. Or both!

Everytime my book was rejected, I assumed that it was because of the spelling/gramar thing and edited it again. And again, and… well you get the picture. When I finally got accepted, after the hallelujah choras, well that’s when I really started to panic. And right now I’m Bleeding tears of shit over book 2!

But if a big company like avon can get it it wrong what hope have I got?

And why is spelling always associated with literacy. I’m very literate yet when last tested (Just before going into Uni) I have the spelling age of 10years8months (Reading age of 35)?

And how bad is to bad? What is the upperthresh hold for just plain shody?

Please, I need reassurance!!!!!!!

(Pathetic isn’t it)

PS Mistress stef: None of my spelling errors are deliberate. The goblins do it when I’m not looking!

I blame gremlins myself.

Nah, mine are definatly goblins. Not franchised you see. Shabby dressers.

I take it that means you’re not one of the students available to do proofing for cash?

Thank you, Kate; I needed that laugh.

Seriously, though, English grad students usually spend a lot of time teaching undergrads how to write at the college level, which also usually means lots and lots of grammatical review.  I never really learned the *rules* of grammar until I had to teach them, and I think it’s the same for most grad students (especially at the beginning when you’re all shiny and new and want to impress and be adored by your students).  And the best part is that it takes FOREVER to get your Ph.D., so these students are around for a long-ass time, generally speaking.

I edited a couple of books as a grad student (although I worked a lot of content as well as grammar and form), and it was really fun. I was also lucky, though, because in both cases the author gave me a great deal of discretion to make changes as I saw fit.

I wrote a short story for my fiction class where the male lead is tied up and the female lead is doing all sorts of shit to him… all of a sudden, his hands are around her waist…

My professor didn’t notice, I didn’t notice, but my workshop buddies did, and they made sure I knew about it.

I was so embarrassed that I had nightmares about it for weeks.

A writer owes it to her readers to make sure that shit doesn’t happen. It’s just irresponsible to say shit like, “Oh, well, it’s just grammar. You knew what I was trying to say.”

Tisty—get someone else to read your manuscript before you send it off.  Another suggestion, and I don’t know if this will help you or not, read your entire manuscript aloud.  Seriously.  You’d be surprised how many typos you catch that way, and it will help you realize if you’ve got a sentence fragment or some other structure problem. 

Finally, change the font for your last read through, then change it back.  I change mine from Times Roman to Comic San Serif and I catch some surprising missing punctuation marks that way.

Good luck!

<style.’ They are a grammar error.”

Comma splices have always been my error of choice.  Finally, when I was writing a final GRADUATE LEVL paper on Chaucer, my professor sat down with me and explained very carefully how to use a semi-colon.  At the time, of course, I thought she was being kind of petty (that was also the quarter I had whooping cough, so it was a miracle I was even going to class—note to grown-ups:  that vaccine only lasts 12 years).  In retrospect, though, I have been soooooo grateful for the time she took to make sure I got it.  Now, of course, I’m addicted to semi-colons (and I still occasionally sin with a comma splice).

A writer owes it to her readers to make sure that shit doesn’t happen. It’s just irresponsible to say shit like, “Oh, well, it’s just grammar. You knew what I was trying to say.”

I also think an editor owes that to the writer.  IMO it is the editor’s job to make sure that an author’s writing is the closest to how they *intend* it as possible.  A good editor will spot inconsistencies, as well as awkward phrasing and bad word choices.  I also think a good editor knows the difference between a writer who is breaking grammatical rules for effect and one who just made a mistake.  The better skilled and editor is, the more that editor will work to make invisible to the reader what is visible to the editor (effective use of grammar, spelling, word choice, etc.).  IMO, when an editor (or a fleet of them, as appears to exist at Avon for every book) fails to assist the author in this way, it’s much more than failing to proofread closely; it’s first a strike against the author and then an undermining of the whole writing-publising-reading process.  If it turns out that the author in question is so nearly illiterate that their MS appears to be in code (I’ve seen this excuse offered for less than perfect editing before), maybe the book shouldn’t have been purchased and/or released in the first place.  After all, this is fiction *writing* not pantomime.

>>Finally, change the font for your last read through, then change it back. <

<

Darlene, this is a GREAT idea. I've never tried this.

And, totally off topic. . .

Happy First Mother’s Day to SB Sarah! All children should be lucky enough to have a Smart Bitch for a mother.

“Oh, well, it’s just grammar. You knew what I was trying to say.”

Damn, that was some funny shit, bam.  The “you knew what I was trying to say” could be the excuse for so many things.

MJD’s joined “romance author” in insulting romance and romance readers. I’ll make sure to let everyone I know about how MJD feels, too.

Wow. Interesting conversation. Interesting in the fact that, “Wow, I can’t believe anyone disagrees on this.”

First of all, here’s how it works. An author writes a book. Some authors are obsessive and write fairly clean copy. The suggestion to switch fonts for a re-read is great. Also, reading aloud helps a lot with a lot of things, not just spelling. Do NOT rely on spellchecker; it’s a good start for basic stuff, but it won’t correct for incorrect uses of “there” for “their”, etc. And the grammar correction on most word processing programs is crap, because I, personally, violate grammatical rules like a viking in a new village if it serves my voice. But only if it serves my voice. I think grammar is important, but you bend it over for voice. That’s just the way it is. There is a difference between stupid grammatical errors, however, and deliberate violations that serve voice. Rule of thumb - if it kicks the reader out of the story, it’s not serving voice. This is where beta readers come in super-handy.

Then, once the author is done, it goes to the editor, who doesn’t give a crap about grammar and spelling (unless the copy is UNCLEAN!UNCLEAN!) - the editor edits for story. Then the writer gets it again, and can sweep it with fresh eyes while doing revisions.

Then it goes to a copy editor. I’ve had three copyeditors who were gifts from God, and one who incorrectly “corrected” my usage of a word, and then forced me to go back and double-check everything again, because I couldn’t trust her to catch what I couldn’t. I was right to do this - she missed easily 50% of my errors. Not just spelling, but continuity, etc. It was horrifying. I was still correcting big errors in galleys. So far, I haven’t found anything egregious in that book, so I’m starting to breathe again, but I keep waiting for someone to notice…

Anyway, after the copyeditor, it goes to the typesetter. I still don’t know much about this process, but I believe it’s still done by hand, because there are still basic typing errors that will come up during this phase. Then it goes to galleys or page-proofs, when I again take a fine-tooth comb to it and fix any typing mistakes. In their defense, at least at Warner, the page proofs are typically shockingly clean. I’ve been very impressed, and blame nothing on these guys. They’re pros all the way.

The bottom line, and what many authors fail to realize, is that it’s not, “I’m the writer and therefore if I say it’s okay, it’s okay.” The proper attitude is, “I’m a writer, and I humbly create this for you, my reader, and if my lazy-ass attitude toward this work kicks you out of the story, then here is my head, here is a platter, do thy will.” We are a million little Sheherazades, and readers are the King who will decide if we live to tell another tale.

So, yes. Mistakes happen. But, as far as I’m concerned, because every mistake comes before my eyes before it goes to print, they’re all my fault. Because I had to do more work on one when I had the bad copyeditor means nothing. I failed on that one, although I still don’t think I failed that badly. I did do my best. And I haven’t heard of it kicking anyone out of the story. Yet. Gulp. But if the reader notices, and it kicks her out of the story, I’ve failed, and it’s head and platter time. There’s just no other way to look at it.

Oh, and Tisty - tell your editor. You shouldn’t be ashamed of your condition. You should be damn proud that you have the courage to do this given your challenges. The editor can be sure you get the best copyeditor in the house. Then see if you can find a good friend to help you go through things. Sweetheart, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

bleh. Adele A’s feelings got hurt after all and she forgot the golden rule of being a rioter: only let it out in private.

Generally speaking (as in abandoning that particular example) it’s astonishing that people on message boards are taken aback when authors can be as waspish and unhappy as the readers.

I mean, obviously for PR reasons they should Rise Above It, but when you’re working in your house alone with only the cat for company, you tend to forget you’re a Professional.

Because very few writers have a staff on hand to remind them to shut up and because they tend to think of their writing as their Nearest and Dearest, I’m surprised there are more “yeah? and so’s yer old man” exchanges out there.

I, personally, violate grammatical rules like a viking in a new village if it serves my voice. But only if it serves my voice. I think grammar is important, but you bend it over for voice. That’s just the way it is. There is a difference between stupid grammatical errors, however, and deliberate violations that serve voice.

I think what people don’t often understand is that authors who effectively violate rules of grammar do so because they KNOW the rules first.  It’s like anything else; you don’t really know how to break and bend the rules most effectively until you know them, know their strengths and weaknesses, know their purpose in the first place, and know how you can serve another purpose by choosing to deviate from the rule.

I guess what’s most frustrating to me about the whole issue of whether “grammar” counts is that readers don’t always remember that this beautifully crafted prose they love in their favorite books may not have been sprung whole—Athena-style—from the author’s head.  Instead, it might have been wrought through multiple edits and revisions and numerous stages of feedback (of course, some authors write stunning prose to begin with, but not everyone does).  Readers should not, IMO, have to be worried, let alone distracted, by pesky little things like dangling participles, split infinitives (although I break that rule all the time and happily so, since I think it’s often stupid), comma splices and the like.  Someone, preferably the author or editor, should have caught all that before a book goes to publication, thereby making invisible what is glaringly obvious to those involved in crafting the book: writing is a skill and a process that often improves with practice, as well as caring and competent editing. No MS is perfect, IMO, but I think professionally published writing should be pretty darn clean.

>>I think grammar is important, but you bend it over for voice. <<

Lani, you rock so hard! I totally agree. The best way I’ve ever heard it said. Or writ.

Generally speaking (as in abandoning that particular example) it’s astonishing that people on message boards are taken aback when authors can be as waspish and unhappy as the readers.

Oh, I’m not at all surprised at authors who get pissy when readers point out mistakes or review their books harshly. I’ve even enjoyed reading the reactions of authors who get publicly pissy about this, as long as they don’t get all PBW.

Wait a sec: are you implying that Adele Ashworth was “romance author”? Adele’s response was gracious and mature; “romance author” seemed, well, delusional.

At any rate, there’s a difference between being pissy over a review or whatever, and trying to defend a logically indefensible position.

Candy said: Adele’s response was gracious and mature; “romance author” seemed, well, delusional.

In the earlier part of the discussion, I thought Adele Ashworth was holding it together pretty well, but she has now sworn off reading or posting on AAR:

http://www.hwforums.com/2035/messages/31076.html

Lani, I love you. I so want a permalink to your comment to pass around. I’ve banged the drum of authorial responsibility to the reader for years.

I saw the fandom explosion LFL mentioned in http://www.hwforums.com/2035/messages/31087.html , and I cringe whenever an author/reader conversation looks like it might go down that same route. It’s high school rally-around-the-head-cheerleader moved to another venue.

Oh. Mah. Gah. Adele Ashworth has, to be blunt, kinda sorta lost it.

Not arguing that her hurt feelings are invalid or whatever, but DUDE. Some of your sentences suck. OWN THE SUCKAGE.

I opened my big mouth. The rest of my day is now shot because I’m going to obsessively check that thread. Oh god.

Tisty, first off, WTG on getting that contract!  And I agree—tell your editor.  Another writer friend of mine is dyslexic, and it takes her a good 10 months to a year to write a solid book.  (Huge historical suspense romances of 120-150k.)  She told her editor, and now the house has a realistic expectation of what her output is going to be like.  Much less stress for both of them.

Are you a member of a critique group?  That can be mega helpful too.

Having read the whole thread at the forum, I would be really surprised if Adele was Romance Author.  Maybe a friend of hers, but my money’s on “not a writer at all but a passionately squeeeing fangrrrl.”

Why is writing a book treated by so many romance authors as different than producing any other salable good?

Borrowing from a metaphor posted recently at Paperback Writer, if an architect were to design and sell a house, it would be expected that the potential buyers would come through and check for witing, plumbing, and a myriad other potential problems. And if the buyer found any exposed wiring, faulty plumbing, badly hung sheetrock, and leaking faucets, the architect response could not be, “Well, designing and building a house is not an easy task; go build one for yourself before you dare criticize mine!”

That argument doesn’t hold for plot holes or poor characterization any more than it holds for poor grammar or shoddy editing, by the way. Even if many buyers will still love the house because of the overall design, they may well always shake their heads when passing that closet sitting right in the middle of the stairs.

WTG on getting that contract!

Oooh, that acronym is new to me. What does WTG stand for? If it’s along the line of congratulations, then I second that. Congrats, Tisty. :)

WTG: way to go (and I add my congratulations here)

Of course, Candy’s car analogy says all I wanted to say, only much better.

Hey, what the hell? Did the board just get trimmed? I finally had a few moments free at work to catch up on the brouhaha at the original Duke of Scandal thread, and it looks like a whole buncha posts got nixed. Anyone know where they went?

FYI, LLB pulled the thread including romance author’s now infamous comments and Emma’s incredibly articulate response.  Too bad, but I understand why she did it. 

Candy:  great post; I really envy your talent for being snarkily funny but astute and articulate at the same time.  As we’ve seen over the past week, that combination is really difficult to achieve such that everyone understands both aspects of it (and the writer clearly communicates both).

Aw hell! I just noticed that all of the posts by “romance author” seem to have been deleted. Dude, that stinks! Now people clicking on the link will have no effing clue what I’m referring to. Ah well. Off to edit the post.

I don’t know but the link from SB Sarah’s post still takes you to part of the original thread…

This whole discussion made me post a want ad in my blog.

Anyone want to earn piddly-ass dough for lots of work? Head over there.

(Robin?)

I just can’t take it at AAR at the moment so I thought I’d come here and bitch.  Smartly, I hope.

I understand some authors’ impulse to find someone who will kiss their boo boo and make it all better, but not why they don’t turn to fellow authors for that kind of support instead of to their readers.

Do they or do they not realize that this almost always causes a flame war and puts a big damper on discussing the flaws of books?  Is it their goal to stifle freedom of speech or are they so caught up in their hurt feelings that they can’t see the big picture?

And why is it that authors of literary fiction resist the temptation to share their wounded feelings with readers, while authors of romance don’t?  They also work out of home with only a chinchilla for company.  Surely they make even less money and also can’t afford a staff to help them hold onto their good judgment, but they still manage to do it.

Is it because romance is written primarily by women?  I hate to harbor such sexist thoughts about my own gender.  Is it because the genre’s being treated like the dregs of literature by the general public has caused some romance authors to lose perspective?  Or is it because there is a culture within the romance genre that leads some authors to expect nothing but mindless adulation from readers?

I apologize if I’ve gone too far in this post, but I’m near to losing it myself.  It seems to me that practically every other week some author on the AAR boards acts like readers have trashed her personally because they’ve said something critical about her book.  Reading the explosive threads that result over there can be exhausting for me.  It’s hard not to feel that there is a big war within the genre going on between authors and some of their readers, a war over how books can be viewed and discussed publicly.

Why would LLB pull the “romance author” posts and not the whole thread? And did she post an explanation anywhere?

Hmm. Maybe she tracked down who “romance author” was? The message board doesn’t show much identifying info on the client side, but I’m sure there’s stuff on the server side that’d reveal a lot more.

Oh, bizarre. The admin on the AAR message board posted this:

For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, but having to do with the guidelines that govern this board, the sub-thread was cut. There can be no further discussion on that point. Regardless, it’s time to move on.

WTF? If they deleted the thread just cuz they felt it got ugly (although it was certainly no more vitriolic than any number of other discussions I’ve seen over there), then why make it sound so frickin’ ominous?

If the thread was pulled because it violated in some way the forum guidelines, how can she not be at liberty to explain the matter? Are the guidelines top secret material?

*scratching my head in amazement*

I wonder if it has something to do with private emails from people who wished to remain anonymous, or with the identity of the author who posted anonymously.

Trombones? Ominious? Hmmm. Can’t hear that I’ll have to get the trombonist in the house to try for that.

My lastest message on AAR was cut too. I think LLB’s getting pickier about what can go on that board. Granted it was a want ad for a proofer—no, actually it was just a LINK—but it wasn’t a promo thing in any sense. (Who wants to announce to the world that she has no eye for detail?)

I’ve noticed more cut conversations on that board lately.

Candy? Why do you think you know who the anonymous romance writer is?

*snort*
now even “the thread was cut” thread has been slightly pruned.

AAR boards show even hotter passions and then sillier with comment cutting than some political boards I haunt.

Back to the real world today.

check out Rebecca’s post on the Potpourri Board—although she doesn’t name the book (yet), she indicates that another Avon she’s currently reading contains numerous and assorted errors and instances of awkwardness.  Boy, some people just don’t know when to leave it alone, do they? ;)

And Kate, I think your post got cut because it referred directly to the messages that were previously deleted and because, of course, it had my name in it (I love the idea of being in charge of a ‘New World Order’, though—do you think I could have Callebaut as my official chocolatier?).

I make it a practice not to post on other sites about goings-on at AAR, but this has gotten so ridiculous that I am going to, if for no other reason than to help put an end to the seemingly unending discussion about it. 

There is and always has been a link at the top of the Reviews MB listing our policies and guidelines as regards MB useage, and on each message board rules as pertaining to that specific board are given.  The Reviews MB’s specific rule is this, and I’ve copied and pasted directly from the Reviews MB:

Please post on this message board only about books reviewed by AAR or in Pandora’s Box

If your post does not belong on this board, it will be deleted

As for not giving more detail about which guideline pertained to the sub-thread that was deleted, seven guidelines are listed quite openly…one of them was involved.  Please, people, I’m asking that you move on to something else…why not just jump into the flames developing nicely as a result of our new ATBF?

Maybe, LLB, you could start deleting posts here too?  I think it’s entirely appropriate for you to run AAR however you want, but to come to another blog and try to limit the discussion which was invited by the owners in a manner in which you view as best?  Controlling much?

I dunno, LLB, it’s a fascinating subject because it’s about people and emotions. Now if there were actual pain on this thread (people getting feelings hurt, serious huffing and whatnot) I could see why you or the bitches would want to put a stop to it. Otherwise, pfah. It’ll fade away on its own.

Since you’ve stopped by…do you think that the AAR threads are more acrimonious than they used to be? Maybe there really should be a writer workshop at some RWA conference on interacting with readers online. Do’s and Don’ts (with gruesome examples. bwhahahahaha. Whoops, immaturity hiccup)

I think a regular AAR poster should give it—along with a writer who’s been burned or, better, one who has jumped out of a fire unharmed. Or hey—you post it at the back fence.

I wasn’t aware saying “please” was controlling…had I said “I demand that you cease and desist…” I would say you had a point. It was simply a request because I’d much prefer all romance novel sites and blogs spent more time actually devoted to books, and because yesterday was a hellish day for me not only because of the message board issue, but because of hosting issues and the four hours spent trying to fix a problem so that all pages at AAR would properly load after getting screwed up somehow online.

As for allowing any sort of post that doesn’t “hurt feelings,” AAR’s posting guidelines are shared by many online publications.  Each year as I pay hundreds of dollars in liability insurance to protect us from legal action I’m reminded of that.  I never want it to get that far, so whenever something comes up that does violate one of those seven listed guidelines, it’s deleted as soon as discovered.

Finally, Blythe was asked by RWA to participate in a workshop some years ago on authors and interaction with romance websites.  She was afraid tomatoes would get tossed her way.

The most valued possession a review site has is its reputation for openness and objectivity. This is not something that’s earned overnight, but it can be lost very easily. Mysteriously deleting threads, particularly ones that were not even close to being the harshest I’ve seen on AAR, makes it look like Adele Ashworth is getting special treatment, or that she or other unnamed individuals have made threats to AAR. If deleting the messages were simply a matter of enforcing posting guidelines, why the secrecy? How can posters learn what not to do if they aren’t told why a post was deleted? And why on earth would the owner of the board post on another review site to attempt to quell discussion there?

Like Candy said, LLB owns AAR and can do anything she wants with it. But in my opinion,  handling a tempest in a teapot in this manner is an easy way to damage the site’s reputation for fair dealing and honesty.

If you read through the seven guidelines, you will see that they exist not only to protect AAR against liability, but to protect users of our Message Board.  The individual who post(s) led to the removal of the sub-thread was informed of their violation of guidelines.  As to the idea that any author gets special treatment, all you need do is look at the remaining thread(s) and you can see we’ve done nothing of the kind.  There are currently at least 70 posts on Duke of Scandal on the Reviews MB, and most are not at all complimentary of the book or its author.

LLB, one of the seven guidelines may have been involved, but surely you must’ve known that we’d all be dying of curiosity as to WHY you can’t divulge, and why you tried to make it a point to say so. If you weren’t at liberty to divulge, why even say anything? It makes speculation that much more rampant. Nature may abhor a vacuum, but romance readers who’re having a slow day at work abhor it even more. I’m just sayin’.

I’m also curious about why the threads were deleted outright instead of moved to, say, Reader to Reader or Potpourri, because I’ve seen some OT topics shifted around that way.

At any rate, this has been elevated in my mind from “silly flame war started by anonymous chickenshit” to “OMG INTRIGUE WOO HOO.”

Hmm.  I vote for the category encompassing “fraudulent” information.

Sure fire way of having people talk about something for a good long while: tell people not to talk about it.

This’ll be my last post.  After contacting the individual responsible and deleting the sub-thread, I made no mention of it at all, because as far as I was concerned, I’d fulfilled my responsibilites as site owner.  It’s only when a reader started a new thread to ask why I deleted it that I responded at all.  I answered without getting into specifics because other than the fact that yes, the sub-thread was deleted as an administrative action, nothing else was or is anybody’s concern. 

We try to maintain as much sunshine on our actions as we can, but I refuse to second-guess myself in trying to determine which reader will be upset about this or that…if I did, there would be no AAR.  I realize that not every decision I make is one everyone agrees with, but my actions were taken in order to protect AAR’s readers and the integrity of the board, and find it ironic that that very action leads people to believe I’ve done the opposite.

I’m not in the habit of lying: a post or posts in that sub-thread violated one of our guidelines, the person who made the violation was contacted, and the sub-thread removed.  I’ve spent ten years online building a reputation for myself and AAR, and I don’t do anything that will affect it negatively.  I can’t help it if others believe something sneaky is going on, but there isn’t. Either you accept that, or you don’t.

I know I’m late but I just need to bow and scrape before some seriously worthy bitches.

I, personally, violate grammatical rules like a viking in a new village if it serves my voice.

Lani - thank you for making me laugh and letting me know that knowing your grammar rules is not some magical power people are born with ;)

Tisty - you go girl!!  I’m all misty eyed at your courage and determination but I’m blaming it on PMS.  I know all about looking into the face of fear and I’m proud of you for sticking your tongue out at it ;)  I know it’s not much for not knowing me and such, but, man, teary eyed ;)

CindyS (shutup, it’s PMS)

Robin: I’m willing to bet that an IP address for a certain series of posts turned out to be the same IP address for another series of posts, if you know what I mean, nudge nudge wink wink say no more.

If we’re speaking of the same person (on however many levels that description applies), at first I thought it could never be, but it would ‘splain some things I’ve had a hard time understanding.

In response to the “the author can break any and all grammatical rules as part of his/her voice” argument (aka “readers coming across as college professors”), I really like what a poster named Mark had to say here: http://www.hwforums.com/2035/messages/31148.html

In response to the “the author can break any and all grammatical rules as part of his/her voice” argument (aka “readers coming across as college professors”), I really like what a poster named Mark had to say here: http://www.hwforums.com/2035/messages/31148.html

Yeah, it’s similar to the point Lanie Diane Rich was making.

I am always in awe of writers who can take something with so few words—a haiku or a sonnet, for example,—and create something new and wonderful.  Poetry in and of itself is somewhat of a miracle to me, especially when it works for me.

Like how about Ezra Pound’s famous little ditty, “In A Station of the Metro”:

The apparition of these faces in the
      crowd;
Petals, on a wet black bough.
___

Or how about Wallace Stevens’s “The Snow Man”?  Not one “big” or superfluous word in the whole thing, yet so expansive itself:

One must have a mind of winter
To regard the frost and the boughs
Of the pine-trees crusted with snow;

And have been cold a long time
To behold the junipers shagged with ice,
The spruces rough in the distant glitter

Of the January sun; and not to think
Of any misery in the sound of the wind,
In the sound of a few leaves,

Which is the sound of the land
Full of the same wind
That is blowing in the same bare place

For the listener, who listens in the
snow,
And, nothing himself, beholds
Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is.
_____
It’s not about grammar for grammar’s sake (even to the college English professor)—it’s about the simple beauty and utility of clear writing.