Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

I started pilfering romances from my mom when I was nine, simply because I had run out of decent reading material.  My mom found out about 10, and while she didn’t really approve, the only thing she said was “Don’t store books on the radiator” and “Have any questions?”  By 14, I was having full discussions on the merits of plot and character in romances with my mom.  Now that I look back, I’m sure she would have liked me to have read romances that were less sexually explicit when I was first starting out, but romances were what solidified what wasn’t the strongest relationship I had.

So yay romance!  Yay teenage depravity!  Yay loose parenting!

My mother introduced me to Georgette Heyer when I was about 10 or 11.  All this new and exciting reading material did wonders for my vocabulary (odious! solicitously! maquillage! bang-up turnouts!).  A year later, I was surreptitiously filching her “contemporary” reading material ... Fear of Flying, The Ladies’ Room, and of course the infamous Naked Came the Stranger (oops, just gave away my age, huh?).  I must say that the descriptions of and attitudes surrounding sex in today’s romances are frequently a great deal healthier than anything in those three books, especially the last one.  (Going on a revenge-sex spree, just because you caught your husband with some bimbo?  Where your actions cause at least two deaths, one of which was a suicide?  Cripes.)

So yes, I would let a 14-year-old read romance novels.  Why not?  I would have already visited the library several years earlier to have the “my kid can check out any book s/he wants” conversation with the librarians.

I started at 13, with a Mills&Boon. However, I swiftly moved on to bigger, thicker novels, and the sexual explicitness grew exponentially. But then, it was the 90s, and even the good ol’ M&B had the bedroom door at least partially ajar. My mom, if I remember correctly, didn’t much care. In fact, she asked me to hand over the good ones so she could read them. But 2 things: first I was a farm kid, so I knew pretty much all there was to know about reproduction by the time I was 6. I was the kid in the schoolyard to talk to about this stuff. And second, I read practically everything I could get my hands on, and the stuff I was reading in Stephen King and Dean Koontz was a lot scarier, sexually, than any romance novel. There were rapes and attacks and, well, sex from a man’s point of view which can still be somewhat frightening ;-)  . Yet those authors are more acceptable for teens. Why, oh why is violence okay but sex a reason to censure?

I just had a discussion with a friend last night about this very subject.  My daughter is fifteen and she had been asking to read some of the romances that make me laugh out loud.  I kept telling her to wait because a lot of them do go into heavy detail in sex and yeah, I know she knows about it, but as a mom, it felt weird giving her the books. 

I finally decided to let her try since I was even younger when I read my first.  Also, she’s pretty mature and intelligent and she felt ready. 

She went through a series of three books in two days!  This is a child I had to force to read for years.  Now it’s her favorite thing to do.  She isn’t vegging in front of music videos and she’s laughing and talking over the plots with me—she loves them! And since I’ve got keeper shelves everywhere, she’s constantly going over all the books.

We’re having a blast and now I’m reliving some of my favorite books through her—even rereading them myself.

I’d say that if the daughter is fairly mature, why not?  BTW, the book she really wanted to read was Undead and Unwed.  I kept thinking about that scene on the roof with the intern.

I started reading Amanda Quick novels when I was 14 and devoured all of them to move on to Nora Roberts a year later.  I had actually not been a fan of reading until I picked up a romance novel.  It appealed to me more than any other genre and it’s still my favorite escapist fiction.  What the mother is probably most concerned about in this article is that exposure to romance novels may make her daughter more promiscuous from the exposure.  I actually didn’t even date until I went to college, so I know this is false in my case.  I’m curious to know, however, if this is a valid concern?  I felt like the novels helped me to respect myself more and wait for someone who would be worthy of me and respect my needs.  Thoughts, ladies?

I have a fouteen year old daughter who reads on a college level. I don’t censor her reading, though I do censor her activities(no dating older boys etc). My mother never censored my reading, and I had access to my much older brother’s fiction and I can’t see that it made me into uncontrollable teen trouble.

My daughter has read some Dan Brown and Stephan King, but she really prefers young adult fantasy and sci fi. She read all the libraries young adult(non romance) manga this summer.

Has she swiped a few of my Blaze books? Probably, they are not kept in a locked cabinet, afterall. Am I worried? No. She can read about twenty something characters having sexy romances, but her life style will still be that of a fouteen year old girl—school, homework, braces, band practice, sleep overs, middle school dances, Latin club…what she reads and what she lives are not the same thing!

I think that Abby’s answer was spot on. Children differ in their maturity level, but most 14 year olds should be able to handle romance. I also started with romance at a very young age. I have always been a voracious reader and my Sainted Mother kept a steady supply around the house. She was a nurse and I don’t even remember not knowing where babies REALLY came from. I can say that some of the stuff I got my paws on was not the best thing for a young teen to be reading, specifically, the prevalence of rape as a plot device which The Bitchery has discussed in the past. I was also reading Stephen King at that age. *sigh* Still, I have recovered with very little emotional scarring, at least not from romance novels. ;-)

I, too, question the violence vs. sex problem. One of the best examples was when the movie Titanic came out. Everyone seemed to object to the love scene between the main characters, while no one seemed to notice all the violent death. Why are we so careful to shield our children from something that they are expected to experience while at the same time we ignore what we hope they will never experience?

Oh, man. I started reading Stephen King when I was around 12, and I got away with relatively little damage. I think Abby’s right on, and I think it applies to everything - not just reading. Movies, music, everything. Right now my kids are very young, so I still monitor what they watch, but not too stringently, and by helping them process what they do see, I get a good sense for what they’re ready to think about. They’ve watched Buffy with us (although, mostly, just the musical episode) and as they get older, I’m going to loosen up more. My only problem is them reading my books. It’s bad enough having to think about my mother and my husband’s parents and grandmother reading what I write. I don’t want my daughters reading my sex scenes. It’s just… igh. As I don’t plan on censoring their choices, though, I’m just going to have to hope and pray that they find it “igh"y too and help me dodge that bullet.

As for the books I’d really like them to read for strong female role models - definitely Jennifer Crusie and Susan Elizabeth Phillips. Georgette Heyer. Jane Austen, of course. There’s loads of good stuf out there, and I think that even the bad stuff is worthy of discussion. Right now, my oldest is starting in on Harry Potter and has expressed interest in the Lemony Snicket books (she’s seven; I’m giving her time to get to Heyer) and I’m looking forward to us reading the same stuff. My youngest, who’s almost five, is still solidly in the Dr. Seuss camp, so I’m waiting patiently. I love that they’re reading, and excited by words and stories. Gives me a little thrill every time I see either of them with a book.

As long as it’s not mine. :)

I have posted here before but today I’m anonymous because ... well, you’ll see.

We’ve got one daughter, a senior in high school. Our stance has always been that she can read anything that interests her. We prefer that she is open about her reading habits so we can talk to her. This meant she went through the awful Goosebumps stage when she was about eight. I never criticized anything she wanted to read, but I talked to her about the books and worked hard to make her comfortable coming to both of us with questions. She is free to read anything in the house or library, to spend her own money on books.

She doesn’t show much interest in romance. What she does read (and watch) with great interest are stories about gay and lesbian relationships. She prefers the gay to the lesbian. She also reads a lot of nonfiction on gender issues, sexuality studies and gay rights (she has a subscription to The Advocate). But her reading material of first choice: novels written by gay men about lives of gay men. Christopher Rice, Alan Hollinghurst, David Leavitt, etc. She also watches any movie with a gay theme. She adored Brokeback Mountain.

This is not the kind of thing that worries us. Drugs would worry us, but an abiding interest in gay fiction? Nope. I talk to her about what she’s reading and she’s open to discussion.

I know what you’re wondering. About six months ago I just asked. I said: So, do you think you might be gay?

And she gave me this teenager look. You know the one: save me from my parents, for they are so dumb.

Mom, she said. I am so. not. gay. I’ve got crushes on like, four guys at a time. I’ve never had a crush on a girl. Not even close.

Okay, said I. But you know it wouldn’t upset us…

Mom: Not. Gay.

So here’s the thing. I don’t get the fascination with gay men and gay relationships and gay sex, but nor do I see any reason to forbid her something that interests her. What would be accomplished? She’d be more determined than ever to read and watch exactly those things we pronounced unacceptable.

I do wish she’d develop at least a passing interest in romance novels, though. I’d love to talk to her about them, too.

I will say until the day I die that (almost) everything I learned about how to build a successful relationship—communication and compromise and good sex—came from romances.  I was filching my mother’s when I was 12.  But then, when I was 12, she GAVE me Atlas Shrugged to read, and if that isn’t corrupting young minds, I don’t know what the hell is.  I think the mother needs to read some romances and figure out that they’re not all about women being “rescued.”  And I think SEP is the perfect place to start for both mother and daughter.

The only book my mother ever censored was Jean Auel’s Clan of the Cave Bears, or at least the one with the man “initiating” all the young virgins as a religious ceremony because of his huge schlong.  I read it eventually anyway.

I think part of the concerns here are the ones about separating fiction from reality.  Both Abby and the mother seem to be caught in the “how will she tell fiction from reality?” loop.  And I think that shows that the daughter is more mature than both of the adults.

My mother, catching a teenage me reading romance novels, made a point of letting me know that almost no women experience glorious orgasm from penile penetration alone while losing their virginity. 

Good to know.  :P I imagine that if I caught a teenage daughter reading those books, I’d want to remind her that while she was reading about pages and pages of fabulous foreplay from men who never ejaculate prematurely, teenage boys are getting THEIR ideas about sex from internet porn - and that expectations on both sides will probably widely differ from reality.

Hey, Not Today!  I’m one of those women like your daughter who adores gay male fiction.  Lots of the fiction you’re naming IS actually romances—just gay male romance.  There’s also lots of online slash fiction and M/M fiction on Torquere Press (an e-book seller) and Loose Id, but most of it is written by women.

The thing about liking gay male fiction…you don’t get to watch ONE guy fall in love—you get to watch TWO!!!  You get to figure out what TWO guys are thinking, not just one!  It’s wonderful.  None of those silly females getting in the way.

I’ve recently fallen in love with Queer as Folk, the Showtime TV show.  Lots and lots and lots of sex, but as a senior, she should be able to handle that, if she hasn’t found it already.  But it’s not about the sex—it’s about the emotions, the feelings, the relationships.  It’s fabulous, AND you have all those hunky guys to look at!

Perfectly normal, and hey, at least she’s reading.

Lots and lots and lots of sex, but as a senior, she should be able to handle that, if she hasn’t found it already.

Um, wow, that came out wrong.  She should be able to handle the sex (I know I was having sex (with my current husband!) as a senior in high school), if she hasn’t found the SHOW already.  Gotta love those floating pronouns.

Oops.

I started reading romance novels when I was about twelve.  They were paperbacks available at the public library, so we’re talking Harlequin romances of the late 1960s-early 70s.  Oh, and Barbara Cartland :-)  Nothing in them could compare, for eroticism, to the novels available in my home—remember Frank Yerby?  Romance novels today are more explicit, but I doubt there is much in them that the average teenager hasn’t already heard about.

My favorite heroines that embody those virtues are currently the P.C. Cast female leads.  I loved Rhiannon’s attitude and occasional snarkiness (Divine by Mistake), and the strength and independance that came from Lina even while she was a warm and nuturing woman in Goddess of Spring.

Previously it was Anita Blake… but I think all of us who have read LKH know there is nothing left of the strong character we used to admire.

Why are we so careful to shield our children from something that they are expected to experience while at the same time we ignore what we hope they will never experience?

I think your answer is in there. I’m not sure that bringing up attitudes towards violence when we’re discussing attitudes towards sex is that useful, really.

As for the rest, depends on the child, depends on the parent I don’t really think there’s a one size fits all answer. My first foray into adult fiction was Susan Howatch and my first sex scene involved whips and repressed husbands or something. (My memory is going.) In the scheme of things, not very important, but I would probably guide my daughter away from certain romance subgenres.

Romance novels were strictly verboten in my house because my mom thinks they’re trashy and inappropriate for everyone. So I started smuggling them in from the library at around 14 or 15. I’d check out 20 books or something with a couple of romances hidden away. Mostly Judith McNaught, Jude Deveraux, and Fern Michaels. Mom found them in my room three times, and every time she took them away and lectured me.

She would lend me action/spy/mystery novels and glue cardstock over the sex scenes. I had to read The Firm with part of the book being all clunky and awkward and explain it to my friends. That sort of thing is going a little too far—your kid can have the violence but not the sex?

All that said, I wouldn’t push romance novels on my kid, but I wouldn’t forbid them. That only makes them that much more exciting. 14 is too young for some writers, just fine for ohers. I might try to steer my kid into inspirational first, though. And I might hide the Emma Holly and Lisa Kleypas while I was at it. ;-)

Anne Landers is right, though, if the daughter is all about historicals. They’ve always been my favorites, and I didn’t start reading any contemporary until college. From that, I do think that my ideas of sex and romance and relationships and proper men are less than realistic. The much-maligned Alpha Hero minus some misogyny and hubris, add some sensitivity is kind of my ideal. I like traditional gender roles, though, and historicals play into that.

Hmmm. I first read both the satirical porn novel CANDY and Stoker’s DRACULA at age 10. Both had quite an impact! I’ll never forget some of those sex scenes, and I *still* have a fascination for vampires, although less fear of them than I did for years after that. (I think I slept with the blankets wrapped around my head and clutched tight at my throat for about 5 years after reading Dracula.)

My mom had thousands of books stuffed into her house (just as I do today) and we were all free to read anything we pleased. Lots of romance, horror, science fiction and fantasy, history… We never discussed it, I just always knew I could read anything I felt like grabbing from the shelf. I’m sure if I’d felt the need to discuss something with her, she’d have been great about it, but I never did—I think I wanted to decide how I felt for myself. I think perhaps the “we can discuss anything you are curious or confused about” thing may be more of a need on the part of the parent than on the part of the kid.

My son’s always been free to read anything he wants, as well. I did try the “discussion” thing with him a couple times, but he didn’t seem interested in discussing the sex or the violence or whatever the heck I was mildly-worried-but-trying-to-be-cool-about ... instead, he just wanting to talk about what he liked about the book. So, I decided maybe I was having hang ups, and let him talk about what he wanted to talk about.

I saw Abby’s column this morning too.  I thought her answer was excellent.  I did not start reading romances in my teens since what we call romance novels today didn’t exist then (I’m a bit older than most of you).  Rosemary Rogers debuted in my 20’s and I was hooked!  My ex (operative word) husband didn’t like me reading them because they “set an unnatural standard for womens’ expectations of men”. Most of the romances I read are well written with good stories.  Most empower their female characters to live up to their potential.  Most show character arcs of emotional development that are better models for teen girls than other forms of entertainment.  And a love for reading is a by-product.  How could this be bad?

Funny, 12 to 14 seems to be the defining age for the most part.  I started reading romances at 14 also.  The first romance I read was a western and I can’t remember the name, the author or the general plot.  I do however remember the sex scene.  The heroine lost her virginity on the wooden floor of a cabin and I remember thinking: really?  Not how I’d want my first time.  Of course, by that point I had quite the range of reading material, including Robert A. Heinlein, who was an advocate of group marriage.

My parents also had a problem with me reading romance, but not because of the sex.  They considered them trash because of the stereotype that they’re all badly written.  I remember, my senior year I wanted a romance and my step-mom declared I had to buy a “real” book also.  Oh, gee, no, I must buy more than work?  Say it ain’t so!

I read my first romance novel when I was eleven, I believe. They were my great-grandmothers, and by authors like Victoria Holt, Georgette Hayer, and Mary Stewart. They contained little to no sex, and most of the women weren’t the sit-down-and-take-it types. I loved them, and read predominantly the same type for years after.

The first romance novel I read with sex was Lisa Kleypas’s “Stranger in my Arms,” and I loved it. I never got into Harlequin, though; maybe because most of the Harlequins they had at my library had titles like “My Baby’s New Daddy” or whatever and I was put off of anything with that little clown on it.

When my mother caught me, she just let me know the realities of sex, such as the first time not being like it is in said novels, that sex is a lot messier, that penetration alone usually won’t cause orgasm, and so on. So I had no illusions reading them.

And I read them for the romance, not the sex. If I wanted the sex, I had the internet. I feel young now…

I’m not a parent, and I was a decidedly odd teenager, so my perspective on this is, you might say, unusual.

See, I censored my own reading when I was a teen. Oh, sure, I read one or two novels that I didn’t want my mom to find out I’d read (I went through, God help me, a V. C. Andrews phase. Gotta love that incest. Ugh.).

But I felt guilty every time I read something I felt was too salacious. So I read fantasy, Star Wars novels (another thing to hide from Mom), Christian historical romances (...don’t ask), and Dickens for years.

And yet, from the age of 11 on, I was obsessed with Holocaust fiction. I knew far too much about very ugly things, and got very little exposure to even ideal visions of physical love. (Christian romance novels, of course, usually feature kisses as their only sexual climax. Explicit description of any kind is strictly verboten.)

The point of all of this rambling is that if I had a fourteen-year-old, I think I’d encourage her to read my romance novels. I might even highlight the naughty bits. :) B/c my self-censoring led to an unhealthy perception of sex—in books and in life—as something that was bad and wrong, which persisted for a very long time.

(On a related note, nearly all of my friends discovered Clan of the Cave Bear at the tender age of 9 or 10, and that was, for them, their first encounter with fictional sex. I’ve never read it, and don’t plan to, but from what I understand of that series, I remain utterly confused as to why their mothers *encouraged* them to read said book.)

I was around nine I guess when I started filching my grandma’s old Mills and Boon novels. God, I thought Violet Winspear was the shit. Lots of May-December love going on and Greek Tycoons out the wazoo. I think probably even read some Betty Neels back in the day, but she was no Violet Winspear, lemme tell you.

There was one set in… Australia? Or Tasmania, where the girl had been away at school, and her step-brother was running the ranch / station? My god, he was the ultra-alpha male. I was in love with him for years. Wish I could remember the name of it. For some reason I think his name was Mungo, but I wouldn’t swer to it.

But God, she had great titles, and I thought Violet Winspear was the most glamorous name imaginable. *swoon* I wouldn’t have any qualms about letting a my 14 year old read romance. She’s only 9 now, though. Like everyone else, I’d rather she get their fill of sex from reading rather than boinking some guy.

Hey, for what it’s worth, my parents let me read romance at the age of 12—pretty violent stuff, too. (Catherine Coulter’s medieval books were chock-full of rape; I think she’s cleaned them up since, but wow, I have some lovely originals.) I’m 20 now and seem to have the most responsible outlook regarding sex of all of my friends. (Well, the ones that are my age.)

If I have a daughter, and she comes to me, say, before she has her first period? I’ll give her the Regencies and the non-explicit Gothic romances. I’ll save the fun stuff for when she’s bitching about cramps. ;-) Besides, if she’s a daughter of mine, she already knows where to find smut on the internet—and how to erase any traces of where she’s been!

She really would be better off learning about sex from fiction than from some idiot in the backseat of his dad’s car.

Clan of the Cave Bear only features a rape scene, but Auel’s sequels were…interesting, at least to my 15-yo self.  Various positions, rituals, etc. 

Before that, maybe 13-ish, I found sex in the abovementioned Stephen King books (ick, mostly, like the 8-yos having group sex in It) and the Jakes’ North & South books.  I learned to keep my mouth shut about explicit content after having shared details of Love Story with my brother.  He blabbed to mom and she took the book away.  I was 11.  Wifey by Judy Blume received similar treatment, but the fact I was pointing out the naughty bits to my little brother indicated a certain lack of maturity.  Mom was probably right. 

I read my first romances relatively late, say 16 - Midnight Rose by Robin Lee Hatcher (fairly chaste) and Santana Rose by Olga Bicos - a fabulous book with ORAL SEX.  Eyes open.  Paying attention now.  Even then, tho, I felt the need to read those books at home - I never took them to school for fear of the kidding I would get.  Geek A+ girl reads romance novels?  Sure - but where else was my nerdy self gonna get any?  Eventually my friend found Outlaw by Susan Johnson, but even at that age I was intrigued yet bored by the sex scenes.  Get on with it already.

My girls are young - almost 4 and 2 1/2 - so the issue is a distant one for me.  Talking, sifting through the fact and fiction - these will be strategies.  I figure that, pesky maturity thing aside, if I write romances and read them, I would be like a smoker telling my kids not to light up.  As long as they explore titles from all sorts of genres, go for it.

Oh, I already fear the flack.

I probably wouldn’t let my fourteen-year-old read romance novels, not for the sexual content, but because many of them are so fluffy (IMHO, she added hastily) that I fear it might spoil her appetite for other, more difficult genres.  I frown on things like the “Goosebumps” series for the same reason.  I was allowed to read anything as a child—not because my mother was hip and permissive, but because she was negligent and lazy—and was introduced to a whole world of inappropriate subjects long before it was probably good for me.  But the thing I really struggled to get over, later in life, was not the racy subject matter but the shite writing.  (All that incest in V.C. Andrews was nothing compared to the dialogue so wooden you could build a deck out of it.) 

No matter what people allow their kids to read, Abby makes a point: encourage your kids to share their reading with you and let them ask questions.

Up front: I don’t read a whole lot of romance novels, honestly.  I’m interested in reading about all kinds of books, but most of what I read are fantasy, science fiction, or historical fiction more neatly than anything else.

When I was nine, I got into reading Dave Barry.  Different from getting into romance novels, possibly, but many of his humor books (he hadn’t written any novels back then) do contain sexual humor that a lot of parents wouldn’t want their children reading.  My parents couldn’t have cared less, on one condition: I couldn’t take them to school with me.  I could read whatever I wanted, but I couldn’t show some things to kids whose parents might object.

My first impulse is to say that of course I’d let a fourteen year old daughter read romance novels, while trying to correct any misimpressions they might give her and answering questions.

But then I remember when I was a teenager, and a friend of mine became very into romance novels and insisted on sharing sex scenes at the lunch table.  I had been reading Marion Zimmer Bradley for years by then, and I don’t think anything she read to us was any more graphic than that.  However, just because I was comfortable with reading sexual material myself didn’t mean I wanted one of my friends to read it to me in a crowded cafeteria.

I would hope that if I ever reproduced, I would raise a daughter who had enough sense of propriety by the age of fourteen that she didn’t read sex scenes to people who didn’t want to hear them.  But just in case, I would probably make the same rule as my parents did for Dave Barry.  She could read what she wanted, but if it was written for a target audience much older than her age, it wouldn’t be going to school.

I started reading romances at 11 or 12 with my mother’s knowledge and permission.  My mother liked the historicals, and I got her interested in the Harlequins when I was 13 or so.  It didn’t seem to warp me…much. :)

I have such a poor memory for what I read as a teenager. Must be hysterical amnesia. I know my first romance was Anya Seton’s Katherine. Loved, loved, loved it! All that honeyed oblivion. But I went down the crime and thriller road and didn’t get into romance until relatively recently.

But I do remember my mother telling me I couldn’t read Leon Uris’s Battle Cry because it had sex in it. I think I just sneered at her and continued on. Then she tried to stop me watching Arther Miller’s The Crucible on TV which I still tease her about.

Kick arse heroines - I’ve just finished reading a Ruth Wind Bombshell called The Diamond Secret? (in the process of moving and I’ve packed it away so can’t check the title). It was great. Fast cars, sexy villians and an older French hero.

It’s interesting isn’t it?  I have to agree with Dear Abby here. 
Does anyone else remember “Forever Amber.”?  It was contraband at my junior high.
You know, I’ve noticed that with erotic romance making it’s surge forward, the sweet romance (with less explicit sex) is going unnoticed.
I’m not alone.  We started a group.  Sweeter Romantic Notions for writers of sweet romances and the readers trying to find them.  It’s been fun. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/SweeterRomanticNotions/

along the same lines as some other posters…i’ve been sharing romances with my mom since i was eleven, most of which are the trashiest of the trashy. it makes ME more uncomfortable knowing my MOM reads those more than it probably bothers her! but you know, i’ve learned a lot about relationships as well as sex from reading them, especially the good ones like nora roberts, and i always felt sorry for my friends whose moms censored their reading—i even had one friend whose mom let her read “the horse whisperer” but put paper over all the racy passages. ha. if that was me i’d've torn that paper right off. anyway, i love what abby said, and yeah. i’ll stop rambling now.

Heh. My mum didn’t read anything but Regencies and pre-1960’s romances that didn’t have sex scenes. I started raiding her bookshelf when I was about twelve or thirteen (97/98) and naively assumed that all romances were like that.

So I read historical fiction for smut instead. Jean Auel in particular was lovely for that. ^_^

But my folks were fairly unusual in that they didn’t care what I read, for the most part. The only book my mom asked me not to read—of course, I snuck it out and read it anyway—had a graphic gang-rape scene towards the beginning of the book and a lesbian relationship later on.

I don’t quite get why parents freak out about what their kids read. I mean, really, with so many of the modern youth screwed up on drugs, alcohol, sex, and gods know what else, you’d think reading a romance novel would be a bit low on the priority list for things to bitch about.

You know, I think it’s okay for parents to be aware of and perhaps concerned by what their kids are reading. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are freaking out. And just because there are kids with much worse problems doens’t mean you might as well not worry about what you perceive as a lesser problem.

I suppose I should say upfront that I’m one of the less permissive parents around here, though that’s more to do with movies and age appropriate activities than reading. I balk at censoring books for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn’t mean I don’t care.

I do find there is a lot of pressure on kids these days to grow up fast, much more so than when I was young, and if I can act as something of a buffer, I will. But I suppose I’m straying into a somewhat different topic here.

I suspect that many romance readers (such as myself) will write to Abby in defense of our genre. I’ll be interested to see whether she prints anything objecting to her characterization of romance as “idealized depiction of romance, and women being “rescued” by powerful, wealthy men” - didn’t that trope go out with Barbara Cartland?

-becca

<objecting to her characterization of romance as “idealized depiction of romance, and women being “rescued” by powerful, wealthy men” - didn’t that trope go out with Barbara Cartland? Not entirely. Some of the category lines still go down this pathway. If you want to read stereotypical gender roles in romance they are out there just as there are books full of strong, autonomous women. Something for everyone.

I’d love it if my daughters would read romances.  The oldest (22) reads nothing - except Harry Potter, because she’s addicted - and the younger (19) has always been a voracious reader, but mostly Oprah books, with a bit of chick lit thrown in.  If Oprah books won’t mess up your head - gimme a break.  Romances are like a skip through the park in comparison.

I gave each of them copies of my books - their names are in the acknowledgements - but to date, I’m pretty certain neither of them have read any of the books.  Funny, because the sex is very tame - a lot of it off the page.  But because they’re first person, and somewhat autobiographical, they both say it squicks them out too much.

I can understand that.

At 12, I spent all of my babysitting money on Barbara Cartland books, then hid them at my friend’s house so my mom wouldn’t know.  She didn’t care that they were romances - and uber silly ones at that - but she’d have been pissed at me spending money on books.  That’s what libraries are for - but I read all of their stuff way early on - I needed a fix, right away.  Off on my bicycle I went, babysitting cash in pocket.

Then I turned 16 and saved the money for a typewriter, so I could write my own romance novels.  Thirty years later…..here I am!  And I’ve always wondered what happened to that box of Barbara Cartland.

Oh - did I say THIRTY years later??? I so meant 20.

Yeah.  That’s what I meant to say.

Some might argue that the idealized depiction of romance, and women being “rescued” by powerful, wealthy men, is more worrisome than the sex and eroticism. However, if you are raising your daughter to respect feminist principles, I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

Oh, really, Abby? What if I’m not raising my daughter to “respect feminist principles”? Am I still a good parent?

How about if I raise my daughters the way I see fit, and you shut up about what “feminist principles” I should be teaching them?

My mother isn’t the reader, in our family. My father is. So my first ventures into commercial fiction when I was about 12 were things like Michael Crichton’s “Great Train Robbery” (whose Victorian setting mesmerized me) and R.F. Delderfield and John MacDonald’s Travis McGee novels. (And “Looking for Mr. Goodbar,” which is the only book anyone’s ever yanked out of my hands when I was caught reading it. :-O)

Also, I’d get books from my grandmother, who traded off boxes & boxes of books with her two sisters, my great-aunts. Through this decorous, elderly generation, I was introduced to books by Barbara Cartland, Jane Aiken Hodge, Victoria Holt, Clare Darcy and Georgette Heyer. (The greats & grandma didn’t read Harlequins—they were snobbish about them. Yes, they who were Cartland fans, were snobs about Harlequin. Go figure.) These grandma-approved books were very different from the young adult novels I was devouring at the time, which were all dark screeds about teenage pregnancy, LSD trips, manic-depression, suicide attempts, gangs in inner-city schools & etc.

So I loved those two kinds of books: I liked to read about long-haired, big-eyed young teen chicks in trouble, particularly if it seemed they might be going crazy, like Sylvia Plath or the heroine of “I Never Promised You a Rose Garden” or “Lisa, Bright and Dark”—but I also liked to imagine feisty 19th century governesses with low self-esteem issues getting chosen by the dark, brooding handsome master for a waltz—and scandalizing all the snobbish female guests. They were saner, but still kind of interesting. And I must say, this division in my reading matter continues to this very day. The ratio that works for me, personally, seems to be about 6:1. (That is, six books outside the genre, and then one romance.) And I’m a fully functioning, taxpaying adult, frequently considered a responsible juror, free of traffic citations since 1991, consistently testing negative for anything that would worry anyone. So I’d say that early exposure to sex scenes in adult-oriented printed matter has had no lasting damage.

(That I can see, anyway.)

I remember being shocked by a couple of Judy Blume books, actually. Wifey was one and I think the other one was Forever. The “adult” romances I swiped belonged to my grandmother and I think the steamiest scenes had a bigscreen style clinch. As I recall, that Judy Blume book taught me everything I learned about sex until I was 19 and started investigating for myself.

Like many here, I started reading romances early - I was about 12, I think.  I picked one up after a family friend left it at the house, and later on swapped them with a friend at school whose mother had a trove of late-70s/early 80s stuff.  My mom realized what I was reading and I think it did bother her a little, both because of the perceived quality of the books and because of the sexual content. Like Tam’s mother, mine did take me aside once to explain that real-life sex was not always quite so ideal, and I rolled my eyes to hide my total mortification and left that conversation ASAP.

To their credit, my parents didn’t keep my sister and I from reading anything, maybe because they knew we read everything in the house and weren’t getting all our ideas from the same place.  We seriously read all the time - for years, I’ve fallen asleep with a book in hand. 

I can’t say that the romances I was reading as a kid had the strongest female role models; even through the late eighties, most were pretty archaic in terms of gender roles.  I can say, though, that some of the notions I picked up about sex were positive and important ones to learn: that pleasure during sex is not just normal but expected for women as well as men (it seemed to take my friends YEARS to pick up on this); that there’s a lot to sex besides penetration; that sex can have considerable emotional and physical consequences (at least, this was always shown for women - my only quibble here is this is not often evoked in the same way for the male characters in the books). I wouldn’t mind a daughter of mine learning these things, especially because the way sex is shown in the mainstream media, especially in teen-centered shows, really bugs me - it always seems like sex is shown as this great “gift” the girl gives the boy, like it’s some kind of huge sacrifice or obligation for her as opposed to being an enjoyable act for her, too.

I must say, though, that I’m glad that force-her-until-she-likes-it storylines are pretty much gone - there were so many in romances when I was younger, and although I made it through that era without ever coming to think that a man would be justified in doing that, the overtone that women don’t know what they want until men show them isn’t exactly ideal for a young audience.

Ana, I remember reading Wifey.  Seems like the very first scene is her looking out the window at a hot guy doing it on the lawn - but it’s been a really long time since I read it.

What screwed me up forever was getting my hands on Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Sex*

*but were afraid to ask

I think I was about 13.  Mom hid it, so I naturally had to find it.  There was a whole section on perversions and such - Peeping Toms, guys who wear mirrors on their shoes in libraries, and worst of all, foot fetish guys.  There were real accounts of people - actually patients of the Dr. who wrote the book - and this foot guy worked at a shoe store.  Of course he did.  He’d measure a woman’s foot, go in the back and jack off, then take her the shoes to try on.  Holy God - I STILL think about that, every time I go in a store that has shoe salesmen.  DSW is my friend.

Oh, and I snuck into The Godfather at a very tender age - we were supposed to be seeing a Disney movie, I think.  Haha!  Still remember thinking Sonny doing the bridesmaid against the bathroom door was…well, pretty amazing.

Dang, up against a door? I never got to see movies as a kid. It was a huge deal if we got driven into town to see a Disney film. I do remember sneaking in to see Purple Rain though (God I loved me some skinny little femme, the artist formerly known as Prince).

PS I’ve got $how Her the Money in my hot little hand right now. It’s at the top of my reading list.

Oh, hell.  Now I’m nervous.  Doesn’t matter that Sarah and RITA liked it - it still wigs me out to know someone’s reading one of my books.

I hope you enjoy it as much as that shoe salesman liked…oh, never mind.  That was gonna be wrong on SO many levels.

And dude, have you never seen The Godfather - the whole thing, not on tv, with all the good parts still in it?  You should - you really should.  Never mind that it’s turned into a guy flick - actually the Gold Standard guy movie - it rocks.  Sex and violence and then more sex and violence.  What’s not to like? :)

Hah- I was nine the first time I thieved one of my mother’s romances.  I was bored, I was cranky, and I think I wanted to disturb my teachers- but I enjoyed it and didn’t really look back.  I’d say I’ve learned a lot about many things from romances, in the same sense as Wikipedia- it’s not where you want to get your hard information, but the genre’s a good source of inspiration for questions and lines of inquiry.

I’d say a bit of maturity and the standard requisite separation of reality and fiction and it should be fine.

“I have posted here before but today I’m anonymous because ... well, you’ll see.

We’ve got one daughter, a senior in high school. Our stance has always been that she can read anything that interests her. We prefer that she is open about her reading habits so we can talk to her. This meant she went through the awful Goosebumps stage when she was about eight. I never criticized anything she wanted to read, but I talked to her about the books and worked hard to make her comfortable coming to both of us with questions. She is free to read anything in the house or library, to spend her own money on books.

She doesn’t show much interest in romance. What she does read (and watch) with great interest are stories about gay and lesbian relationships. She prefers the gay to the lesbian. She also reads a lot of nonfiction on gender issues, sexuality studies and gay rights (she has a subscription to The Advocate). But her reading material of first choice: novels written by gay men about lives of gay men. Christopher Rice, Alan Hollinghurst, David Leavitt, etc. She also watches any movie with a gay theme. She adored Brokeback Mountain.

This is not the kind of thing that worries us. Drugs would worry us, but an abiding interest in gay fiction? Nope. I talk to her about what she’s reading and she’s open to discussion.

I know what you’re wondering. About six months ago I just asked. I said: So, do you think you might be gay?

And she gave me this teenager look. You know the one: save me from my parents, for they are so dumb.

Mom, she said. I am so. not. gay. I’ve got crushes on like, four guys at a time. I’ve never had a crush on a girl. Not even close.

Okay, said I. But you know it wouldn’t upset us…

Mom: Not. Gay.

So here’s the thing. I don’t get the fascination with gay men and gay relationships and gay sex, but nor do I see any reason to forbid her something that interests her. What would be accomplished? She’d be more determined than ever to read and watch exactly those things we pronounced unacceptable.

I do wish she’d develop at least a passing interest in romance novels, though. I’d love to talk to her about them, too.”

Hey there! I’ve NEVER liked “traditional” romances, and I’m only here because I wanted to see some of the worst of the genre snarked. ^_^ Just to be honest.

Seeing your comment made me smile, because I’ve been a lifelong slasher (even when I wrote crappy originals and was deep in denial, my men would always end up together-though whining about how wrong it was! ^_^).

I can’t speak for all, or even a majority of slash/yaoi fans and writers, but what draws me to the idea of writing slash/yaoi/gay fiction is the idea of a difference and yet a similarity, the idea of two equals being in love (for others, it’s a man called a “seme” and a “woman” man called an “uke,” but I personally hate that trope) and of friendship turning into love.

^_^ I’m working on my first novel this year if my stupid computer here will cooperate. *kicks it* Though I’ve written fanfiction for two years now. If anyone here has ever read the manga “Trigun,” most of my fanfic is for it and pairing Wolfwood and Vash.

I was a little bit of a late bloomer when it comes to romance. I discovered my first romance (Kona Winds… some kind of broken family, frigid woman saved by hot native) in my library at my Catholic school when i was about 14. I had nightmares about what the nun was thinking when i checked it out.

My first love was Judith McNaught. I read all of her books at the public library. I was big into Anne McCaffery and Mercedes Lackey but was bored. My mother, a voracious reader, gave one of her long-suffering sighs whenever i’d have a big stack of books with one of my gaudy pink romances tucked in the middle. To this day, she still comments on my reading habits, as does my older sister, my younger sister, and my brother.

I still haven’t branched out much in the genre (i’m still working my way through Nora Roberts, god love her), but i was pumped and psyched to find this site, realize there are other smart bitches out there who aren’t afraid to admit to reading romances. :)

My eldest is still a preschooler, but I hope I’ll adopt a similar attitude to my own mother.  Let my daughter make her own decisions and her own mistakes with reading, but make a point of commenting positively on her good choices, and discussing anything she wants to discuss.

There are some books that can be a bit scarring when discovered too soon.  I read Poe’s ‘The Black Cat’ at around 9 or 10 and man, it haunted me.  Really, really bothered me a lot.

So, I’d try to steer her away from things that I felt were a little too dark/complex to be digested easily too soon, but finally leave it up to her.

There are certain books I’d really prefer her NOT to be reading - the sex scenes and violence and general ickyness of, for instance, Kiss The Girls struck me as not even slightly appropriate for a young girl.

So, if she dives into explicit romance? Ehn, whatever floats her boat, and sex is pretty interesting at that age.  If she goes for the gruesome sex torture and serial killing stuff? I may have to revisit my censorship stance, or just hope it wears off quickly :P

And I’m with previous posters on thinking that stuff like Jennifer Crusie, while explicit it gives good strong female role models.  And Georgette Heyer is an enduring delight.

I think Sphinx had an interesting point - yes, blah, blah,blah, read everything as a child, never did me any harm [as the proponents of smacking also argue] but just because it never did me any harm, does that mean it’s the best thing for my daughters [15, 13, 11] to be spending their time on? If they’re reading relatively little, is my job as a parent to encourage them to read in this genre?
It’s not actually the sexual content that worries me - it’s more the argument that made my mother forbid me Enid Blyton as a child. In general could a person [an un-reader] enjoy romances so much, and be so much in the habit of reading them, that they wouldn’t explore other types of literature? [I’m thinking mostly of category romances I suppose.]
Hasn’t actually come up, bar once, when I stopped the oldest as a twelve year old reading one of my SIMs. So far, they’re choosing to read other stuff.

I remember reading The Bastard in 8th grade, age 13, at my Catholic school. It had sex, violence,and a “dirty” title. *snicker*

And that was after having gotten my hands on Harlequins and other such novels! Stef, I swiped my mom’s Everything you always wanted to know… book too, and I remember that shoe guy! Ugh!

And of course, Forever by Judy Blume was being passed around my 7th grade class, with the passages read aloud, during lunch. Heh heh heh.

My oldest is 10, and right now she is totally immersed in Meg Cabot and other fabulous YA novels. She’s lucky in that there’s a much wider variety of novels for readers her age than I remember there being at my age. I am looking forward to the time when she’ll be ready to read romances; I’m hoping it won’t be for a couple of years yet, but who knows.

I’m already starting to put together a pile of books that are more sweet and less sexy, but are still romance novels, for that inevitable day—which may come as early as this year!

Oh, I loved Enid Blyton as child. The Adventure series was one of my best reading experiences ever. She really struck a chord with me and I would have hated to have missed her books. (They really don’t hold up as an adult.) I didn’t hear about people banning Blyton from their kids reading until we lived in England. (I’m from Canada.)

That said, to reiterate from my earlier posts, I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong for parents to guide or even censor their child’s reading. People seem to get really up in arms in a way I don’t understand.

But honestly, I personally don’t believe that reading easy, fluffy books are bad for children. In fact, I think when they go through, say, a zillion of Babysitter’s Little Sister (as my daughter did) it can increase their reading speed—which will be a big benefit later on. The familiarity and knowing what to expect of such books allowed her to zip through them. If a child is always making his or her way through relatively tough, unfamiliar text their reading is likely to be slower, or so I’ve observed.

Btw, my kids do not pilfer my shelves. They have library cards and the YA industry is absolutely booming and chock full of choices.  And YA books are not what they used to be, either.

Hmmm, what a disjointed comment. Obviously I find this an interesting topic!

My late stepmother was a strange lady, but she did love books.  When she caught me reading Coffee, Tea or Me? as a teen, she sneered and said, “If you’re going to read sex books, at least read good sex books,” and gave me a copy of Boccaccio’s Decameron.  Which I thoroughly enjoyed.

I came upon an explicit romance FAREWELL THE STRANGER by Sailee OBrien in my grandparent’s basement when I was 12.  I didn’t talk to anyone about it, but I was fascinated.  None of the adults in my life ever asked or checked about what I was reading.  I had no censorship, but lots of questions.  I would have welcomed some discussion.

I have boys 16 & 19.  I don’t believe in censoring what they read, but I do believe in reading it myself and discussing it with them particularly when they were younger and I thought the book, comic or magazine might contain adult themes. 

Personally I’ve always been much more concerned about violence and military fiction for them than any sex.  I worry about negative stereotypes they encounter in video games and the denigrating way women are treated in video and music more than a book, so we’ve had lots of conversation about respecting women.

I would love it if they read romance.  I think they could learn something about the way women think.  Yeah, not all romances I know…but there are some good ones that could enlighten a young man.  Of course, I don’t see it happening, so I’ll just keep plugging away as we have been.

Decameron has sex in it?  Hold on - checking Wiki - quite a bit of sex, actually.

Rawk on with its bad plague self!  It’s been on my classics TBR pile for ages.  It just moved ahead of The Communust Manifesto, that’s for damn sure…

As for The Godfather, Sonny up against the door with the bridesmaid - good times. Although I prefer the young Pacino / DeNero sequel.  Not so much sex, but double studly Italian hotness.

There is discussion of this topic on the Avon message board with a link to Abby to express yourselves directly.

I am so old I only WISH there had been romances to read. I hung out with a delightfully geeky crowd in high school that shared “meaningful” books: Atlas Shrugged, Childhood’s End, Grapes of Wrath, On the Road, War and Peace and the like. Yikes.

Pointless pleasure (now there’s a romance title) didn’t happen for me until I discovered Georgette Heyer on a trip to England. I reconnected with romance reading about three years ago and am quite happy the genre has “matured.”

I have three daughters, none of them with an interest in romance. The youngest, wiseass that she is, reads certain passages aloud to her coworkers in their store when things get slow. They all snicker.

My only caveat about teen girls reading explicit romances is that it sets them up for inevitable disappointment when their partners have no clue where their “center of pleasure” is. Perhaps teen boys should be provided with with appropriate texts. And condoms.

lovelysalome—Reading Decameron is a twofer—you get to feel all special for reading the classics, and you get sex and laughs at the same time.  Some of the humor is ageless.

Certainly a lot more intentional yuks than the Communist Manifesto.[g]

I’m a reader Jorrie: I found ways. My best friend smuggled me in some Blyton, and there was that blissful summer holiday when I discovered my uncle didn’t share my mother’s educational qualms…
It’s not reading speed with my children really, it’s more that they aren’t readers. My thirteen year old’s best friend is - she zoomed through my Agatha Christies’s last year. I’d worry less about what a child like that read, because in the end, she’ll read everything, or die trying. She’s going to come across different styles, ideas, vocabulary, and if she gets stuck on Christie for a bit, in two months she’ll have read the lot and be cautiously trying Sayers. But if a child like my daughter got stuck on Agatha, it might take her [guessing here] a couple of years to do the same.

Huh. I’m really intrigued by the idea that reading “easy” books = bad/not optimal.

I read Babysitters Club until I was way, way, way past the target demographic (into my teens, I think), and my mother wouldn’t buy them for me b/c I could read one in half an hour. I read “fluffy” books for years—still do. I love YA books and kids’ books and romance novels and you’ll pry my L. M. Montgomery collection out of my cold, dead fingers.

And yet I’m finishing up a PhD in 19th century British literature. Somehow, I don’t think I was damaged by my reading choices.

I know I was unusual, in that I challenged myself voluntarily, reading Shakespeare one day and Ann M. Martin the next, but as far as I’m concerned, if a kid’s reading anything at all, then it’s all good.

(Was it Bookseller Chick who had that brilliant discussion of boys and reading in her blog a few days ago? That said most of what I want to say now.)

Marianne—I’m so glad you read Blyton anyway! :)

As for non-reading kids, I’m no expert, since both my kids do read. I’d tend to be in the better read something than nothing camp, but I honestly don’t know, having no experience.

The idea that children and teenagers should be discouraged from reading fluff like The Babysitters’ Club is silly. They’re having to read through the “great works” in school. Why should they have to read the same stuff at home or on breaks? I LOVE good literature and have a degree in 18th c. Brit lit. On breaks from school, I wasn’t about to pick up anything serious from the TBR pile. Kids need breaks from school. Do you come home from work and delve into Milton for relaxation? Probably not.

Of course, I was voracious and read everything. I was way into Nancy Drew, but then would pick up To Kill A Mockingbird or Madeline L’Engle’s adult fiction on my own when I was 8 or 9. Why would anyone try and force kids to read things they don’t like for “fun”? More harm than good if you ask me.

Exactly.  My daughter is in AP English and she has to read Watership Down, Grapes of Wrath, Animal Farm, Ender’s Game, and several other heavy books.  She likes them but wanted something more fun to read for a break. 

I’ve always encouraged her to read across the board—as I do.

I started reading romance & historical novels at about age 11.  They were my mom’s and aunts’ hand-me-downs.  Traded Harlequins with my friends and their older sisters.  Kept the used bookstore in business.  Read them almost exclusively until I was about 15 or 16, then came back to them off and on over the years.

No kids, but if I had a 14 year old who wanted to read them, yes I would let them, because:  They’re reading!

I would however want to be aware of what they were reading, so I could answer questions or clarify information for them.  And I would encourage them to read other genres as well. After all, that’s what my mom did for me!

I felt kind of weird when I found out that my teenaged little sister was a Zane fan.  I wondered if I should tell her that the books were too mature for her.  I wondered if I should tell the parents. 

Then she told me that she was currently reading the book that I was still wait-listed for at the library.  I asked if I could borrow it when she finished, and she said sure.

So now we trade books.  And I’ve realized that my little sister isn’t a kid any more.  She’s got a good head on her shoulders, and she knows how to tell truth from fiction. 

If she’s old enough to walk into a bookstore and plunk down her hard-earned money for a book, then she’s old enough to read what she wants. 

So instead of getting all over-protective, I just count myself lucky to have a sister who has become a friend - a friend who is nice enough to lend me her books.

I remember the first romance I ever read was a Phyllis Whitney book. (Actually… I’m not sure she counts as romance but she sticks in my mind because you always knew that the main character would end up with the gruff guy she didn’t like, whereas the nice guy was going to be evil. Anyway, I loved those books, though they weren’t fluffy exactly for a ten-year-old. Mostly, nobody censored my reading growing up. I recall reading an explicit sex scene in a science fiction short story at eleven. (It involved a woman who was a sex slave, if memory serves, and the story fascinated me.) But my parents and I never really discussed books because aside from the Phyllis Whitney stuff, when I was a teenager my mom (who was the only real reader) and I had very different tastes in books.)

I don’t think having kids is something that’ll happen for a while, but I’m definitely in the censoring kids reading isn’t good camp.

This is an interesting subject. :)  I started reading romances very young.  My parents had been very upfront about sex and reproducing all my life, so I was probably way ahead of everyone else my age & older.

I think I read my first “romance” when I was about 8 or so.  I thought it was interesting and stuff, but wasn’t a big eye opener for me at all.  I got my first contemporary romances when I was 10 from my aunt.  She gave me a big box of Candlelight Ecstasy’s (remember those?) and I remember devouring them.  Sex & hot heroes.  Yum!

I don’t plan on reproducing ever, but if by some miracle I did, I’d be very upfront with any child of mine who go into reading.  As long as what’s being read isn’t regarded as shocking or secret, then it doesn’t come across as “naughty.”

I was the kid who had a locker full of romances all through high school.  Each year, the last day of school found me piling books into a large garbage bag to drag home.  :)

“I’m really intrigued by the idea that reading “easy” books = bad/not optimal.”

Well, on the face of it, it’s an easy idea to argue for. My youngest daughter is very dyslexic, and thus reads very little, and her general knowledge score is appallingly low, because, the educational psychologist told me, children pick up a lot of that sort of information from books. I’d guess children also widen their vocabulary through reading, and encounter new thoughts and ideas. The ‘better’ the book, the more information, ideas and new vocabulary it will contain.
To repeat myself, none of those considerations apply if you’re a ‘real’ reader - if you’re reading Shakespeare as well as Martin, how would it matter if the Martin books have a null effect on your overall development? It’s like saying you do aerobics, and also sit in front of the TV, and as you’re reasonably fit, that’s proof that sitting in front of the TV does no harm. If you’d only ever read the Martin, and were getting your PhD, I’d be more convinced. [I’m impressed though. Congratulations.]

I don’t force the girls to read anything - I’m lucky if I can get them to tidy their rooms. The question is: Does it matter what they read? My oldest - when she reads - is reading plays at the moment. She borrows plays from her English teacher and reads things like The Glass Menagerie and Look back in Anger. Not my idea of light reading. But still, could it be argued, that as a parent, I’d be doing better to wax enthusiastic about playwrights, and discourage Mills & Boon, or is that a misconception? Is one as good as the other?

I started reading romances at 11 or 12 by borrowing my mum’s Mills and Boons and Barbara Cartland’s, not exactly with permission! I still read M & B if I want something light and fluffy but no more Barbara’s. My daughter is 14 and a bookworm but I have been guilty of trying to censor her reading somewhat even though she is quite mature for her age and would definitely discuss any questions she had with about a book (often loudly and somewhere public - libraries and bookstores being her favourites as they must jog her memory as to what she wanted to ask me!) I am trying to get over this and having glanced through some of the targeted ‘teenage’ books, I realise that I am being over-protective and she wouldn’t turn a hair over most of my books, so next time she asks to read one of my romances, I’m going to bite the bullet and let her and then brace myself for any subsequent comments (about my choice in reading material). She told me in all seriousness that her books weren’t appropriate for me and I wouldn’t understand them - I did manage to keep a straight face! Her latest choice of a back to school reading book is ‘Pride and Prejudice’ and the other 2 she chose at the same time were the latest Princess Diaries (no. 7) and a book by Anne Cassidy which raised issues of mental health, child abduction,  giving a dog a bad name and child abuse - all of which we discussed at length whilst shopping and on the train, probably to the bemusement of our fellows passengers.

If a kid shows any interest in reading it should be encouraged.  You’re never going to teach a child to enjoy reading by forcing them to plod through things they don’t connect to and don’t enjoy.

I’m not saying kids shouldn’t be exposed to the classics.  Of course they should.  It would be wonderful if everyone read Shakespeare for fun.  (I’ll admit, I do it.)  But you can’t expect someone to start there.  (You don’t go from being a couch potato to buff condition overnight.)

I was always pretty much allowed to read anything I wanted, though I can remember an time or two where my young judgment was overruled.  My grandmother gave me a book to read when I was around 10 or so that started out with a rape scene.  I was such a little innocent, I didn’t even truly understand what was going on, but it disturbed me enough that I buried it under a pile of papers and never read any more.  My father is the one who discovered it there and read far enough along to decide it probably needed to go back.  When he asked me how far I’d read, I think he could see that I had no interest in reading it farther and didn’t make a big deal out of it.

But, things changed as I got older.  A couple of years later, when somebody at the library made a mistake and shelved Forever between Blubber and Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing I was intrigued and grossed out in about equal measure.

By the time I got to high school, my best friends were bringing Bertrice Small books with them to share.  I don’t think my mother ever knew I read them, but they didn’t make me start running out and having sex.  Even at 16, I think we realized how over-the-top they were.  And they were far from the only things we read.

The discussion of kids reading the classics reminded me, there was one time my parents made a rule that I wasn’t allowed to read something yet.

My elementary school had a program where kids got prizes for how many books they read.  Every month, you turned in a list, and every fifty books you got some sort of prize.  Mostly they were patches to go on the back of a t-shirt with the number, but on a few milestones you got a little trophy or a pin or some such thing.  It maxed out at two thousand.  Most kids who bothered with it finished in fourth grade or so, but I had started reading thicker books earlier than most of my fellow students did.  Since page count and reading level of books wasn’t a factor, just the number of titles on the list, by the summer after fifth grade, I still hadn’t finished.

During that summer, I saw Man of la Mancha at the local summerstock theater and absolutely fell in love.  It was the first play that ever made me cry at the end (and I’m not sure I remember doing so since except at other productions of it).  So, I decided I wanted to read Don Quixote.  Sixth grade, Christmas, my parents gave me a 1050 page unabridged paperback, which I was forbidden to read until seventh grade so that I would finish the rest of my bloody two thousand books instead of taking up all my time on that one.

I finished the program, got my necklace, and read the book.  I’ve reread it about every two years since then.

So I had to compare notes with my sister. We both think we were about 12-13 although she might have been earlier because she was younger than me and reading my books. This lead us to remember some of our first books only we can’t remember authors or book titles. :O So now I have a couple of my own personal Guess the Lonely Heart only I don’t know the actual answers. :D

I think I started stealing my mom’s harlequins at about 13.  She knew about it and all she ever said was don’t go out doing this stuff until you’re grown up okay.  I also started getting books after my very elderly very catholic great aunt had finished with them.  She read all the time we all seem to in my family.  If anything reading all those romances in adolescence made me realize that I didn’t want to go out and do “that” unless it was with someone I was committed to.  So actually I think it had the effect of making me less likely to experiment as a teenager because most of my questions were already answered *G* at least enough to make me content to wait until college.

Not Today:

Here’s my theory. Your daughter might be looking for examples of gay relationships/people in a loving context, rather than the sensationalized version she gets from the news media.

My own experience was very similar. I grew up pretty sheltered. Once I figured out what gay was, I wanted to know everything I could about it.

I think it’s really cool that you are letting her have the freedom to read what she wants.

My daughter only reads if she can read out loud to someone. I wish I could get her to make the leap to the idea that reading, even when you’re by yourself, is fun. I tried to hook her with Madeline l’Engle but so far, nope. She’s nine.

All I know is, no way I’m letting my 10-year-old son read the romance I’m writing. I really don’t want to explain rim jobs to him.

Fiamme mentioned Poe upthread.  Poe was my mother’s favorite author so I read him early.  My mother read constantly. The ceral box if that was all there was.  She was not a genre snob.  She mixed her genre fiction (mostly mystery and family sagas) with the classics.  I remember her “Faulkner summer”; it wasn’t pretty. As a result we were book kids.  My sister, mom and I would take a stack of books on vacation.  I remember my dad trying to get us to look at scenery but we were too busy reading.  Even though Mom was a pretty conservative Catholic, she didn’t censor what we read.  If she read it,it was okay if we did. I inherited her love for reading and her eclectic taste.  If not for her I wouldn’t have discovered Twain, Poe, or Austin as well as Christie, Sayers, Stout, M.M. Kaye and Wouk.  Thanks, Mom!

When I entered High School, my Mother informed me that I was old enough to read whatever I wanted. For my frehsman year, I raced through her collection of Georgette Heyer, Barbara Cartland, and old Harlequin romances. From there, I found Danielle Steel and then Julie Garwood.

I used to boast what a great reader I was and a friend pointed out that I can’t be considered one if I real only one genre. For whatever reason, this struck a very deep chord in me and I began broadening my reading, finding Sidney Sheldon, Mary Higgins Clark, and Stephen King. I am eternally grateful to her for her statement because without it, I might not have discovered some wonderful authors.

As for teens reading fluff? I’m all for it. As a children’s and teen librarian, I talk to the kids about books all the time. If they have to read a difficult book, I tell them to treat themselves with a “fun” book. For example, summer reading. Some kids want to use Captain Underpants as their summer book. I tell them read a book from the list (or by my recommendation) and then treat temselves afterward with Dav Pilkey. It’s what I do. I read Juvenile & YA Fiction constantly for work and treat myself with romances in between. I see nothing wrong with it at all.

I say if the child is able to know what the plot of the story was and talk about it well, then it doesn’t matter what they are reading. From the Clique novels to the more serious YA, it’s a book and much better than most of what’s on TV.

I have 10 y/o b/g twins.  My DD, I can’t keep in books.  She reads whatever she wants.  I would be more inclined to stop her reading brutal rape/murder mysteries than I would romance.  So, I may censor violence, I don’t know because I haven’t been tested.

If I could only get the boy to read ANYTHING voluntarily I’d be happy.  He has to be forced.  I tried the Spiderman, X-men, Hulk etc. comic books and he’ll go through them.  He actually finished Cornelia Funk’s Dragon Rider in 4th grade (he read it during mandatory reading time in school).  I think it took hime 3 - 4 months. 

I am caught between the ‘you have to do this’ and the fear that if I push too hard he won’t do it just as rebellion…

I may even let him read murderuous stuff if it sparked his interest.

My DD still hates my books.  She calls them kissy-kissy books.  I don’t think she’ll be borrowing them for a few more years.  But, when she gets up to where she wants to….she is welcome to them.

Sam

I am caught between the ‘you have to do this’ and the fear that if I push too hard he won’t do it just as rebellion.

Have you tried audiobooks—at least to get him interested in the whole reading/story concepts?

Oh, and one piece of advice:

Keep your kids AWAY from the early V.C. Andrews. It’s not just mind-blowing, it’s mind-warping. That, if anything, was the reading material that actually damaged me.

The first book I read that contained sex was Sooner or Later by Bruce and Carol Hart. I believe the sex lasted about 2 sentences if that much, but it was the first I had read. I have to laugh to think of how shocked I was then considering that I now have a shelf full of Aprodisia and Ellora’s Cave novels-right next to well worn copies of Dickens, Woolf, and Austen to name a few. During one of the Library Science classes I took in college I had to give a report on encouraging children to read. In my research I learned that children who are allowed to read what pleases them tend to gravitate to the classics on their own. Therefore, if someone is worried that their child is only reading Goosebumps or romance novels I would advise them to relax. Children who love to read and have plenty of encouragement will hear about how good those classics are supposed to be and curiosity will work her magic on them.

I used to boast what a great reader I was and a friend pointed out that I can’t be considered one if I real only one genre.

I’ve never bought this argument.  “You’re not a good reader because you don’t read everything.”  Yeah, well, suck it.  :roll:  Just because I don’t enjoy reading your preferred genre, doesn’t mean that I haven’t read it in the past and decided that it wasn’t my cup of tea.  And your favorite author is great for you, but doesn’t interest me at all.

I started reading Stephen King at 11, and read everything in the horror genre that I could get my hands on (except vampire books) until the age of 15, when I switched to romance.  All through my years of formal education (23 years total),  I’ve read the classics for class and always went back to “fluff” for entertainment. 

I’ve tried mystery, westerns, chick lit, Oprah Book Club selections, etc.  I keep coming back to romance because everything else is boring to me.  And that’s not to say that everything in romance is interesting to me.  I am bored by contemporaries and paranormals.  But I tried them.  And everytime I let someone guilt me into trying them again, it just confirms my belief that they aren’t for me.

It should be enough that I’m reading.  My parents never restricted my selections, and I never let my peers shame me into hiding my selections.

In my research I learned that children who are allowed to read what pleases them tend to gravitate to the classics on their own. Therefore, if someone is worried that their child is only reading Goosebumps or romance novels I would advise them to relax. Children who love to read and have plenty of encouragement will hear about how good those classics are supposed to be and curiosity will work her magic on them.

I’ll go with this. My reading was never censored as a child, so I got a nice balance between my favored fantasy novels and the heavier, classics (especially the craptacular 1950’s classics—if I never read another Steinbeck again, it’ll be too damn soon!) Went to high school and kept the same balance, only adding some, very few romance novels. Even I was a snob then! Went through my 20’s in a depression (probably all the Tolstoy and the philosophy I had to read in college) and when I came out realized I didn’t want my fiction to be quite so heavy anymore—real life is heavy enough. So I got VERY into romance novels, with the understanding that they be of the “happily ever after” type, in my late 20’s, starting with Jayne Ann Krentz—who, no matter what else you say about her, is absolute Queen of the Lighthearted Romance Novel. I re-read those when I’m down, even if I have moved on to other authors, the erotica subgenre, and the vampire/supernatural category (although that’s one that’s starting to bore me, so I need to find another subtopic of interest!)

I still think they lead me down interesting research paths. After reading some historicals, I spent a full month researching the life and times of real pirates, sheep farming in Lancashire in the 1700’s and read a biography of Jane Austen. You don’t need to know what I do research on after reading an erotic romance….  :smirk:

the first romance i read was titled “tregarons daughter” (i may be spelling that wrong.. good book to transition from little house on the prairie books to more grown up literature.

i was 12

my teen is 15,she can read any of my books cept my ellora’s cave collection hehe..those are mama’s!!

we’ll giggle over stuff together and talk about how stupid some things are in the books and have good discussions over places the books take us..

case in point..sherrilyn kenyons dark hunter series sparked her ineterest in greek mythology. she looked stuff up on the web and checked out library books on the subject.

i’m pretty much liberal about the topic.. if something is too sexual or rediculously sexual, i’ll reccomend she not read it..like laurel hamilton’s incubus dreams, it was too much for even me. i made it thru 1/4 of the book then put it in my swap bag to take to the used bookstore.

rebyj, I adore Tregaron’s Daughter and most of the other Brent novels, my favourite being Golden Urchin. <3

Robin,

Thank you for suggesting audiobooks.  I will try one.  IF he likes it I can always get more from a library.

One thing my kids school do right is read to them.  They have 20 - 30 min a day.  The teacher reads for those minutes, marks the page and comes back to it the next day.

I love subbing on days when I get to do that…

Sam

In addition to audiobooks, try seeing if he’d go futher into the comic realm with Graphic Novels. There are a few out there that a young boy might like. (One is titled Origin where the author creates the background for Wolverine - great story and gorgeous artwork).

Play on the noflyingnotights website. It has great recommendations.

Oh, really, Abby? What if I’m not raising my daughter to “respect feminist principles”? Am I still a good parent?

“Feminism is the radical notion that a woman is a human being.”

So.. IMHO, no.

:coolsmile:

I’ve wondered about that comment, too.  I’ve always felt the word feminism represented a positve—equality and respect between sexes. 

Here are the dictionary definitions:

1.the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests

I don’t know for certain, but I speculate that poster was thinking of fringe militant feminism and referencing the belief that men should be oppressed or punished because women were. I can’t get on board with the idea of causing any group of people harm because it isn’t going to change the past. I just want a level playing field for me and my daughter, so that we can do anything we set our minds to achieve.

I started reading historicals when I was 12, and I don’t think it did me any harm.  I preferred traditional Regencies, but not really because of the lack of sex.  I just liked the repartee!

I think that while things have changed a lot in the romance genre, it’s still exciting to me every time I read a
historical where the girl gets equal time in rescuing and action instead of just being “feisty” or only being as badass as the hero until she’s finally overpowered and suddenly here he comes to the rescue!

And maybe things have even changed since I was in high school (when I read a lot more widely in the genre than I do now, when I mostly stick to authors that I know I love or that are recommended to me by trusted fellow readers), but I remember HATING all those forced seductions and heroines getting one-upped and overpowered and rendered speechless and pressured into marriage and made to realize how frigid they were or to feel clumsy or to whatever it was by the cool, forceful hero.  It just felt like whatever the situation, the heroine was never in control of it.  I remember how happy I got when I watched _The Court Jester_ for the first time, because the chick is the captain of the resistance! 

Sometimes, I know, attempts in historicals to make the heroine equally strong can end up just plain anachronistic, and I don’t like that, but I think a lot of books could do better than they do.

Some of my favorite strong-girl romances are:

The Grand Sophy by Georgette Heyer
The Last Hellion by Loretta Chase
Sorcery and Cecilia by Caroline Stevermer and Patricia Wrede

LMAO!

Jesus…

I wrote this pretending to be my mom two years ago, when she threatened to confiscate my stash of romance books because she stumbled across a slightly BDSM themed one. (The cover made it clear)

It didnt end up doing anything, actually, when I showed her this…she just said HM. and refused to talk about it.

Good times, good times…