Bitchin' Blog Posts
Brand Loyalty and Book Loyalty
by SB Sarah | by SB Sarah | February 01, 2010 | Monday at 11:00 am | 78 CommentsAfter a full weekend of ZOMG on Twitter about the Macmillan/Amazon showdown, where Amazon did the hokey pokey with the buy links for Macmillan authors, I was having a hard time articulating why this didn’t send me into rage and ire. I’m horrified for authors whose books are no longer on sale from what I’m told is the largest independent bookseller in the US, and I’m sorry that people looking for books from Macmillan authors on Kindle will not find them and likely move onto something else. But I’m not angry at one party over another. Mostly I want to throw my hands up in the air similar to when my children are fighting over a small pile of Cheerios while I’m holding a full box.
Why? Because I don’t harbor any particular feelings of loyalty toward Amazon or toward Macmillan. As I said on Twitter:
My brand loyalty: to authors who write good books. Not to publisher, not to bookstore, not to vendor. Author. And Book. That is all.
I care who wrote the book, and I develop loyalty towards authors and towards specific books they’ve written. I could give a rat’s ass who published it. I suspect the only people who pay attention to what house published whom is someone who works in publishing. I couldn’t tell you who writes for Pocket or who writes for Tor - except now I can find one author’s books in Kindle and not the other. I don’t know who is a Macmillan author and who isn’t - and even when I started searching for books to see who was and was not available at Amazon, I had to stop and think which book and which authors would be affected because I honestly didn’t remember.
I have no brand loyalty towards a specific house or imprint. Increased transparency for editors online is a good thing for readers like me because I’m more likely to learn about their tastes, and see where they align with mine. I don’t necessarily remember if something is an Avon book, but I might care that Esi Sogah edited it because I know her taste from following her on Twitter and reading what she says on the Avon editor’s blog. I’m not impressed with Macmillan’s positions on ebooks, and know that if I am looking for a book published by a Macmillan author online in digital format, I likely will have a devil of a time finding it.
The exception to the publisher house brand loyalty oblivion are small presses who’ve consistently impressed or horrified me. Most of the time, if it’s a big publishing house or an imprint of one? I couldn’t tell one from another and don’t care to, either.
I don’t have any terrible brand loyalty to Amazon, though. I don’t care where I buy my books. I care about price and whether I can get them digitally in the format I want. I am discerning about the books and the authors and the prices I pay. And I don’t buy books all that often from Amazon. I buy groceries, children supplies and electronics, but books? Hardly ever. I use a Kindle, as I said earlier, but I bought it used and rarely do I put Amazon books on it, even though buying my books from other sources means I don’t have access to the additional features like syncing across devices. I’m more likely to buy from eHarlequin or AllRomanceeBooks.com than Amazon.
I don’t think either Amazon or Macmillan is thinking about the consumer in any of their tree-pissing positioning. I understand intellectually what they’re doing, but in the end, since I look for books and authors, not publishers and stores, their showdown only strengthens my deep and bubbly apathy towards publishers and vendors.
It doesn’t change much of my shopping habits, though it prods my empathy in a big way for the authors caught in the middle of this face-off. My loyalty is to them, and to the books that they write that I love. I don’t care where they come from, and I don’t care where I buy them, so long as I can have them. Neither Amazon nor Macmillan have stirred my loyalty as a reader such that I’m going to change anything.
What about you? Do you notice which publisher published what? Do you shop at more than one bookstore? What’s most important, the author and the book, or the publisher or the store - or none of the above?
Filed: General Bitching, Random Musings, Ranty McRant
Tagged: wtfery, twitter, tor, publishers, macmillan, kindle, ebooks, bookstore, books, avon, authors, asshattery, amazon
Audrey said on 02.01.10 at 12:45 PM • [link]
This is unrelated, but as a student, the ereader market really interests me because I see it as an alternative to physical textbooks. And as pricey as textbooks are (and being a poor student!) the biggest factor for picking books is pricing. I’m going to get it wherever it’s cheapest and this trend towards selling higher-priced books worries me because if we move towards digital media, that means students won’t even have the option of buying “used” (and thus cheaper) textbooks. I guess in answer to your question, all of the above are important to me because they affect so much of my reading experience (in textbooks and personal reading). Publishers and stores affect the price I can get books at while the author really provides the content. But there’s a certain price cap for me and once it exceeds that, the book’s not worth it any more.
m3t said on 02.01.10 at 02:26 PM • [link]
ummm who is macmillian? Never heard of them, don’t know their author list. Like you, I don’t care who publishes what. I care about author and price. Not loyal to amazon. I am loyal to paperbackswap.com (tyvm sbtb!)
SheaLuna said on 02.01.10 at 03:13 PM • [link]
Like you, I could care less who publishes a particular book or author. In fact, I couldn’t tell you a single publisher name from my vast collection of books, not even my auto buys from my favorite authors. I do know that Tor does sci fi and fantasy and Luna does urban fantasies aimed at women, and that’s about as far as it goes.
When buying books at a physical store, I go to whatever one is closest to me when the mood strikes. Usually because I’m not going in to buy a specific book, but rather to browse and possibly buy whatever catches my eye. 90% of the time this usually means Waterstone’s, but it could just as easily be WH Smith or Borders or some random indy shop (though those are very few and far between here).
I will admit that when buying online, I almost always buy from Amazon. Why? Because it’s easy and because it means I can get a lot of US authors that aren’t otherwise available over here. And if a US author/book isn’t available at Amazon.co.uk, I can get it through Amazon.com if I’m willing to pay the shipping. Having said that, I have no particular loyalty to Amazon and if I could find the same book elsewhere online for the same price or less without going on a massive hunt for it, I would be perfectly happy to do so.
It’s all about the books and those wonderful authors who create them.
AgTigress said on 02.01.10 at 03:24 PM • [link]
Macmillan is one of the world’s largest publishing houses, and was founded in the 1840s. They publish in just about all fields—academic, educational and fiction.
I should have thought that if they are having a set-to with Amazon, they probably have the clout to win.
I agree with Sarah, though, that one does not normally think of books in terms of their publisher, but rather, their author. Publishers naturally find that hard to believe.
:-)
Shannon Delany said on 02.01.10 at 03:30 PM • [link]
As one of the author’s impacted by this issue (as of this moment supposedly resolved, although my book is *still* not back up for pre-order) I have to say that authors are often told to look at the publishing houses marking books in their genre so they know which house might be more likely to want their next mss. So this may simply be something we authors are hypersensitive about. And personally, I’m glad that many readers don’t shop along publishing house lines since many authors strive to publish with multiple houses.
SheaLuna, Tor is a Macmillan imprint. As is St. Martin’s Press and St. Martin’s Griffin, so two YA authors whose names you might recognize who are impacted by this are Alyson Noel and PC Cast (just off the top of my head).
So glad you gave your input on this, Sarah.
Trai said on 02.01.10 at 03:39 PM • [link]
Frankly, I shop at whatever bookstore has the book I’m looking for (I check the inventory online before I go, so I can go to the store and know they most likely have it). At home, Barnes and Noble is much closer than Borders so I’m more likely to go there.
Now that I’m in college, it’s a little more tricky. There’s two nice independent bookstores in town—one sells new and the other sells used. I can usually find at least something I’m looking for, and the new bookstore is very nice about taking orders if not, but both don’t carry romance novels (I’ve only gotten into them fairly recently). For anything by Harlequin or the other imprints, I have to go down to my town’s Stop and Shop and pick up books with my groceries :) Otherwise, I have ordered online from Barnes and Noble’s website.
I’m not loyal to one particular store—like you said, I care more about the author and the book—but for me, it usually depends on convenience. My loyalty goes a little more towards Barnes and Noble these days, though, because they actually offer free expedited shipping over $25 an order, so that’s very nice when you’re impatient like me!
KatherineB said on 02.01.10 at 03:54 PM • [link]
I think in terms of book commerce, I go for author, then price next. As to publisher? Hmm. Really, at that point I just look for how my books are put together (read: durability), in hard copy formats anyway. Haven’t invested in a Kindle, just using my iphone for ebooks, so no comments there.
If had a publisher loyalty, it’d be to Penguin, whose books never fall apart no matter how I often I read in the bath.
On the other hand, Random House had better get their shit together - I purchased a trilogy, in that annoyingly large-than-pocket size they keep pushing, and the glue in the spine was so shoddy that it cracked and chunks of pages fell out during the FIRST reading. Shame on you Random House. I have paperbacks from the 1950s that are still in good shape, so there’s no excuse.
Susan Helene Gottfried said on 02.01.10 at 04:00 PM • [link]
When I was debating what to do about my publishing problem, I talked to a lot of people who read books. Who read. Not write, not review. Read.
Know what I learned? 95% of them didn’t know the difference between publishers. Didn’t care, either. The other five percent? They were either business junkies, or had heard my discussions of what to do with a project that had an audience but no publisher interest.
It’s similar to record companies: the only people who follow the people who make books and music happen are the people directly involved. The rest want to turn on the radio or open a book and be entertained.
Shiloh Walker said on 02.01.10 at 04:09 PM • [link]
This is me as an author…thank you.
This is me speaking as a consumer…damn straight. Taking books out the buyer’s eye-which is what happened when all the ‘buy now’ links disappeared-proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that that Amazon wasn’t thinking about the consumer. Sorry. They weren’t. They can claim they were trying to use that as ‘leverage’ for their kindle readers but their kindle readers still make up a pretty small percentage compared to their print readers, if I’m under stand correctly. No way can they claim it was ‘putting the consumer first’ when they removed easy access to those print books.
And keeping ebook prices high isn’t keeping consumers in mind, either. Pubs need to turn a profit, but maybe the new ‘agency model’ that puts Amazon back more in the ‘retailer’ position instead of retailer/wholesaler/publisher will allow the pubs to offer better prices and still turn the profit they need.
Dunno.
But, one cool thing-scored like 7 books from Omnilit yesterday for $22 bucks. Can’t beat that.
SB Sarah said on 02.01.10 at 04:20 PM • [link]
Isn’t that based on the specific editor you’re querying, though? Like Ms. So and So is looking for romantic suspense, but not paranormal, while Mr. Whosiswhat is looking for paranormal?
ETA: So in other words, it’s a specific person you’re after, not a house? Or is there a draw for publishing houses that supercedes the draw to work with or pitch to a particular editor.
Also: question for authors - does this price war maneuvering make you more or less likely to want to publish with Macmillan? Does it make a difference at all?
Joanne said on 02.01.10 at 04:27 PM • [link]
I don’t care who the publisher is. What I do know is that I’m not paying $15 for an ebook. If that’s the price MacMillan charges for an ebook, they’ve lost my business because of what they’re doing, not who they are.
MicheleKS said on 02.01.10 at 04:32 PM • [link]
Sarah, in reply to your first question above: as an aspiring author, I research not only who the editors are and what they’re looking for, but the publishing house they work for also. For example, Avon publishes a lot of historical romance so if I wrote historical romance (which I don’t) I would start looking at what their submission guidelines are, etc. As an aspiring author, I not only research individual editors but also publishers because you wouldn’t want to submit something to a publisher who doesn’t publish that type of book (like sending a category-length book to a publisher that only publishes single-title length, etc).
Kara said on 02.01.10 at 04:43 PM • [link]
I care more about the author and the book!! Don’t know who their publishers are and really don’t care. What I read is based on my interest, the author who writes that particular genre, and both the current and backlists of my favorite authors.
I also shop a lot of different places…Borders is closest to my home. We don’t have any independent booksellers where I live or I would support them first. Then usually I buy from Amazon online…just because of the ease. But I have no particular loyalty to them. I get my eBooks from Fictionwise. And some of the independent eBook sellers out there like Ellora’s and Samhain. Then of course there is my all time favorite of shopping the library book sales.
Terry Odell said on 02.01.10 at 04:57 PM • [link]
I’m also one of those who doesn’t pay attention to the publisher. Bookstores and libraries don’t arrange shelves by publishers. I was surprised to see some of my favorite authors mentioned as those whose books wouldn’t be available at Amazon. I’ve been reading Sue Grafton since A is for Alibi, and had no idea—nor did I care.
Price does matter to me as a buyer, and since I assume I’m not alone, I expect it matters to readers as well. When one of my e-publishers decided to move into larger distribution channels and set up Kindle versions, I was delighted. On the other hand, I was shocked that my publisher set a sale price of double what they charge on their own website. So when Amazon listed the books at $9.99, I was more than OK with it. To me, as an unknown, it’s all about reaching readers, not the royalties. And I’d rather people not have to know who my publishers are if they want my books.
Harry Connolly said on 02.01.10 at 05:02 PM • [link]
And an awful lot of those authors are furious with Amazon.com right now. They may not like Macmillan’s ebook plans, necessarily, but what Amazon.com did was nasty and it wasn’t the first time, either. Many of them are pulling links to that seller off their sites and pointing readers to competitors, for good.
Judy said on 02.01.10 at 05:03 PM • [link]
Reiterating all of the above: author and book.
I admit to preferring hard copy over audio or electronic, libraries and swapping over buying. But when I do buy, I buy for the above and wherever I can can find it (the cheapest, hopefully).
This debacle is another reason why I am not yet investing in an eReader. Hopefully things will shake out within the next year or so but in the meantime it is difficult for both the consumer and the author. To all the authors affected: if you write it, we will find it….
Bobby Ray Brown said on 02.01.10 at 05:17 PM • [link]
Oh but the authors know who published them!!! Big bragging point, this. You won’t hear authors brag too much when published by this or that e-publisher, but if their publisher is Berkley or Random House, you will definitely get an earful. Yes reader could give a fig less, but authors do care.
As far as the squabble going on between a bookseller and a publisher, we are in agreement—Big DEAL. However, when it comes to the pricing of books, this hurts us all, reader and author alike, so we’d best pay attention. And by the way, when Macmillan increases the price of their book, do they direct some of their profit to the author? What a dumb question that is—of course not. I’m thinking they need the extra money to cover their mistakes—you know those ones they make when they buy a crappy book that readers reject?
Finrael said on 02.01.10 at 05:26 PM • [link]
Where I live the only retailer used to be walmart, now we also have target. Oh boy! There is one used bookstore in the area, and it sucks. So I do all of my book buying through Amazon, unless I wanna drive an hour or more away to visit B&N or Borders. I stood back and watched the outcome of the whole E-book thing. I wasn’t overly impressed with the sony e-readers. When the amazon kindle came out I waited for the price to drop on it. It works for me because I live in an area where wifi isn’t the norm, so the Kindle won on that front for me.
Now on pricing. I’ve watched paperbacks skyrocket in price, and I’ve watched the Novelette thing happen. Who wants to pay $25 for a hardback that’s slim and double spaced? I have really enjoyed buying new books for $10. I’ve tried authors that I wouldn’t normally try. I was a die hard fantasy person, and now I’ll read anything practically. Amazon and the publisher are both businesses, they really don’t care about the customer. They are both out to make a profit. The publisher can say they want to make it a variable price and list a really low price, but you know they are gonna stick it with the highest amount they can. They are crack dealers and they know they have us in their pocket.
I gotta say tho, now that I have an e-reader there is less dusting and taking care of books, which is nice. I no longer have to take box loads of books to the library or the used book store.
Nat said on 02.01.10 at 06:03 PM • [link]
Science fiction author and blogger John Scalzi has a really good point about this. Alas, I can’t do the correct quote thing, so here’s a link:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/01/all-the-many-ways-amazon-so-very-failed-the-weekend/
Point 6 is especially interesting. He’s right, people just want to buy the damn book.
To answer your question, Sarah, “does this price war maneuvering make you more or less likely to want to publish with Macmillan? Does it make a difference at all?” Nope, no difference at all, except that whenever I’ll think of these two, I’ll remember the public hissy fit more than anything else.
Kwana said on 02.01.10 at 06:04 PM • [link]
I only notice publishers of books I like in the genre I write in for research purposes as an unpublished writer. As a reader it doesn’t matter to me. What matters is the author and the story. If I like an author I’m going to try and get that book at the best price I can. If I get a recommendation from a friend I’m going to try and get that book at the best price I can.
So I guess author and price are the bottom line for me and honestly if it is too high I’m putting it on hold at my lovely library and getting it there. I do that often still. My library is wonderful that way.
Publishers and sellers must realize that it’s all about the economy right now and the consumer will shop around. Don’t make us work too hard or have the authors suffer please. They work hard too.
I’m happy for my Sony and the ability to do that shopping around.
Missy Ann said on 02.01.10 at 06:26 PM • [link]
I have no specific publisher loyalty, like most others my loyalty is to the author.
But I do admit to avoiding a publisher. Tor Romance was so awful that I will check a book and if it’s published by them I put it back on the shelf. Same with Medallion. Both burned me with what I consider unreadable dreck more than once.
Anyway, Amazon vs. Macmillan. Both are wrong. Amazon went about trying to force Macmillan in a way that punished readers. And Macmillan needs to lay down the crack pipe if they think I’m going to pay more for an e copy than I will a print edition. I won’t even pay the same for an e copy. I expect a small discount because there is no printing cost or shipping.
Publishers need to hire someone to look at ACTUAL buying habits; someone who will tell them the truth and not what they want to hear.
If I’m reading a hardcover it’s because I borrowed it from the library or found it at my local used bookstore.
If I’m reading a paperback it’s because this author is one of my favorites or I bought it from my local used book store.
If I’m reading my Kindle it’s because the author is a favorite or the book is getting really good reviews.
Did you see that? When a book is getting good buzz I will buy it for my Kindle. I won’t wait and buy it second hand where the publisher & author make nothing.
Diatryma said on 02.01.10 at 07:01 PM • [link]
In SFF, I can identify a Baen book at twenty paces, I know Luna is usually fluffier than I want but still readable, and certain small publishers are a bit disappointing or reliably good. But I’m more aware of this kind of thing because I also write and hang out with writers.
Like bestseller lists, publishers count when I need more data. Otherwise, it’s author, autograb, et cetera.
I usually buy from the independent bookstore downtown because it’s walking distance, immediate, and I want there to still be a bookstore downtown next year. It’s the same reason I still buy a few books even though I’m pretty broke—I know the authors and want them to succeed. I try to buy them in the first month, when it gives the sales an extra boost.
I’m on the side of the authors on this one, and all of them seem to be against Amazon. Amazon’s not the one writing checks to authors.
liz m said on 02.01.10 at 07:04 PM • [link]
Author, then Publisher, then Price
First, I buy by author. Then, if I don’t know the author, I am more likely to give (I should say was more likely, since I have had a break in faith this last year or so) a trusted publisher a shot, then I look at price. If it’s overpriced (over paper market price, etc) it’s not bought. If it’s not an author I know, but it’s got a loss leader price (buy first of a series for 1.99, etc) I’ll get it.
I don’t have a set price. I just bought Balogh’s novella Matter Of Class, and I have purchased some ‘hardbacks’. But I do have a set ‘value’ marking. If it costs more in ebook than in paper, I will never buy it. Not even if the price falls.
Lynne Connolly said on 02.01.10 at 07:19 PM • [link]
Somewhat. There’s one big publisher I’m a bit lary of because the authors tend to be not my favorites. But I didn’t realise it until I checked to see what the authors had in common.
In ebooks, yes, because I know that the author gets a bigger cut if the book is bought from the publisher website.
Otherwise, no. With one big exception. Harlequin. It because where Macmillan, Penguin etc tend to prefer to have diverse lines and identities, Harlequin has house styles, house lines and they’re instantly recognisable in the store.
Karenmc said on 02.01.10 at 07:53 PM • [link]
I keep track of all my books in bookpedia, which keeps a stat on publishers. When I first saw the bar graph I thought, “I don’t care”. I still don’t. I look for the authors I enjoy and the authors recommended at sites like SBTB, then I check pricing. But publisher? Not so much.
Lori said on 02.01.10 at 08:21 PM • [link]
I don’t even have a e-reader, although, I do want one. But with prices that high, I don’t think it will be worth it. I couldn’t agree more with what you posted. I don’t look at the publisher when I am buying a book, I am looking for the author. I don’t generally know who there publisher is. Frankly, I don’t care. It’s obvious that they don’t care either…Nicely done.
Laurel said on 02.01.10 at 08:26 PM • [link]
What I took away from this whole thing was this:
Amazon blinked.
That’s a good thing, even if it means some eBook prices will climb. They’ll probably do the same thing the paper model does. Macmillan’s website says that some of their eBooks will be available for around $6.00 and others as high as $14.50. But allowing the publisher to have input on pricing will pave the road to things like an eBook release at a premium price at the same time as the hardcover.
It is probably not a coincidence that Macmillan waited to pick this fight until after the iPad dropped. Apple and Macmillan had worked things out so Macmillan had a place to go. Amazon knew it. And some of the Macmillan authors have fans like us, people who buy an author over a house or bookseller or format.
eBook pricing will shake itself out over time as long as nobody has a monopoly on digital books. This looks like a crack in Amazon’s evil plot for world domination to me. Love my Kindle, but I’m glad to see Amazon getting some pushback and competition.
Henofthewoods said on 02.01.10 at 08:41 PM • [link]
Baen - Because they have made themselves different and worth checking.
There are lines that are good at linking groups of authors I will like, but mostly I am skeptical of publisher’s predictions of what will appeal to the same group of readers. I would rather read the review that tells me why someone liked the book (or didn’t) and get a feel for whether I will want to read it.
I buy most of my books from Fictionwise because when I had a catastrophic computer failure, device failure and network failure all within a few weeks (computer and reader were days apart) they were the easiest to reload. No email to beg for reactivation, no snarky “you should have backed up” [I did, on the server that crashed, the reader that crashed and the stupid dead pc.] Now I feel locked in with them; it worries me that if I buy something somewhere else, I will forget and buy it a second time. I already did buy a book whose title changed - actually one of the GA Aiken Dragon books that Sarah mentioned a few days ago. I hate buying an ebook twice, I can’t give it to someone.
I did my real world shopping with my dog. My closest bookstore was a Barnes and Noble that gave dog treats. They closed when their rent went up 5-fold. The next closest was a Borders. They allow dogs in the store, but they are in Penn Plaza and the guards on the sidewalk outside of the store don’t allow dogs. I can carry him over the sidewalk, but it is less pleasant. I really have dropped off shopping since I can’t go with the dog.
Jacquilynne said on 02.01.10 at 08:53 PM • [link]
I largely don’t care who publishes a given book, though I used to find a fair number of books that I liked from the Orion imprint in the UK. I noticed what seemed to be the house cover style more than the actual publisher, though.
Oddly enough, in music, I do find label to be a better indication of whether I’d like something, at least in the mid-level houses. Rounder, Sugar Hill, Lost Highway, all labels I can usually rely on to put out discs that I will like.
I suspect if my taste in literature ran more to smaller press publications, I might find I had more loyalty to a given house, because I imagine that small presses are more likely to publish niche lists.
Tabetha said on 02.01.10 at 09:33 PM • [link]
I’ve never paid attention to publishers until I started buying ebooks from the the epubs but I do now. EC, overpriced mixed bag quality wise—may buy but probably not, Siren complete unedited crap—will not buy even the authors who I like from them because everything else is so shitty, Samhain great prices and there’s always an attempt to provide a well edited story—I’m happy to buy from them and take a chance on new authors.
I shop for books where it’s convenient and for me that means Amazon (I don’t own a Kindle I’ll never buy a proprietory platform), Samhain (whatever book store they use) and the grocery store. My husband likes to meet a friend at Borders so occasionally he’ll get a list of books to bring home from there but the covers are embarassing so I try not to torture him too much.
The author has always been the most important factor for me until I started reading ebooks. It started with the epubs like I said above and soon after I took notice of Macmillan and how they would delay their ebook releases and charge outrageous prices for them. But since I’m one of those readers who’s just as happy reading a paperback (I never buy HC) as an ebook it wasn’t that big of a deal for me I just bought the paperback instead of the ebook.
But Macmillan forcing Amazon to charge more for their products? That outrageous and totally unacceptable to me—sorry favorite authors but I won’t be buying your books if you’re with Macmillan. I don’t even know who you are yet but as I buy books from now on I’ll be taking notice of who publishes them. And I won’t be buying from Macmillan. If I don’t buy a favorite author because of this mess I’ll be sure to send them an email letting them know and hope at some point they consider finding another publisher so I can buy their books again. Maybe they’ll put up a donation button so if I end up pirating their book to read it—I’m not a martyr I’ll still be reading my favorite authors trust me—I can give them a couple bucks.
ghn said on 02.01.10 at 09:38 PM • [link]
I couldn’t care less who is the publisher of any given book. When I go book-shopping, I first look for books from authors whose books I have read before and liked. When I have time I have a look around for anything I haven’t yet read but which looks interesting.
The one exception to this is is Baen, where I faithfully buy every single monthly webscription package. As well as a number of e-Arcs and other stuff.
It means I buy those books that are included in the monthly webscriptions that I damned well know are awful. It doesn’t mean that I have to read them. And there will be at least a couple of titles that are decent reads in any given month.
example69 - Yes Baen is a good example to the publishing world. Wonder why more don’t follow their lead?
Deb said on 02.01.10 at 09:56 PM • [link]
My loyalty has always been to author. It has been since I was 16yrs and buying my own books. I am 55yrs old now. I have never noticed publishing houses, with the exception of Harlequin.
But I have noticed the trend of delays and double price points. So yes, I have started to notice. Not because of loyalty, or interest. Like any one with a limited source of income and ever increasing cost of living, I have to watch prices. As much as I want an author to succeed and continue writing, I have to take care of myself first. I simply will not pay double of original mm pbbs. I would wait for the ppb release, but not @ an increase in cost. And Macmillin expects me to. I suspect their bigger selling original release romances are going to be higher, as romance accounts for the majority of books sales.
I believe both MacMillin & Amazon have made a hash out of this whole mess with a side order of Apple influence. It astonishes me that it took this long for the publishers to start paying attention. (Oh, right, Apple) It would seem like no one is running the ship. They have unrealistic expectations on the buying public.
Laura (in PA) said on 02.01.10 at 09:59 PM • [link]
I buy author, then book, then price. I read a lot of series, so often I’m looking for certain books by certain authors. If it’s an author I love, I make an appointment to buy his/her next book when it comes out. I look for the best price, but if I have to pay full price for a book I really want, I will, for certain authors.
I buy from a lot of places, sometimes independents, sometimes B&N or Borders, sometimes BJs or Costco, or Target, and I’ve often bought from Amazon. I buy from them mostly because it’s convenient, they have a huge selection, and sometimes for price. I obviously won’t be buying a book I want if it’s not there.
I don’t have an ereader, other than the Kindle app on my iPhone. I have bought books for that from Amazon.
I’ve certainly heard of Macmillan as a publisher, but I couldn’t begin to tell you who the publishers are of my favorite authors. I don’t care. It is very obvious to me that neither Amazon nor Macmillan care as much about their consumer as they do about winning their side of the pissing contest.
I’m sure I’m showing my ignorance with this question, but why isn’t what Macmillan is trying to do considered to be price fixing?
Deb said on 02.01.10 at 10:00 PM • [link]
ETA: “yes, I have started to notice publishing house.”
Estelle Chauvelin said on 02.01.10 at 11:20 PM • [link]
Well, I now know Stephen Saylor is with Macmillan because his website has explained that his books are affected by the current fiasco, and I know that there are a fair number of Tor books on my shelf and that it’s a Macmillan imprint… again, I found out about that last part because it came up in a discussion on an SF fans board that they were affected.
I do have something of a preference for B&N, but in the end I’m ultimately with this- if it were B&N that had announced it would not be carrying certain books that I’d wanted, I’d get them elsewhere.
Janet C said on 02.01.10 at 11:26 PM • [link]
Well in the case of Macmillan/St Martin’s press I actually have noticed them in the past—after more than a couple of cases of not being able to obtain a newly released book I want to read in eBook format, and then once it finally does appear generating my reaction of “Holy Crap they’re charging how much?!!!!”
Otherwise, my loyalty is pretty much to me. I want what I want and to tell you the truth I want it now. I want to buy eBooks and then I want to read my eBooks, on my terms. I quietly admit my first action upon any eBook purchase is breaking that DRM and backing the file up ........ not because I want to pirate the thing but because if I decide I want to read it 14 years from now on my Sony 2025 eReader I want to be able to with a minimum of hassle.
Otherwise, if authors want me to buy their books, they need to get their work out there at a price I’m willing to pay. If Publishing houses want me to buy their books, they need to be out there at a price I’m willing to pay. If Amazon wants me to buy books from them, they need to…..
well, whatever. How they all work that out between themselves is their business. Not my problem.
DS said on 02.01.10 at 11:39 PM • [link]
Haven’t read all the comments but when publishers were less conglomerated I used to know who published my favorites and I would try new books just because they were published by the same house. I think I bought nearly every book published by DAW for two decades except for the GOR and other similar sexual fantasy stuff. Even though Donald Wolheim has been dead for 20 years a new DAW book gives me positive feelings.
However now that they are all eaten up by bigger fish, I don’t pay a lot of attention to who publishes what except for Tor and Baen and some small publishers.
i had to check online to see which imprints were owned by Macmillan.
i dug my library card out this weekend and checked out books today for the first time in a year.
Essa said on 02.01.10 at 11:50 PM • [link]
Strictly as a consumer, I like Amazon. They have what I want, generally less than I can find it other places, and with my Prime membership, they deliver it on my doorstep within two days. (The hermit in me loves that.) I don’t think they’re some evil corporation ready to take over the world—I think they’re a giant corporation with buying power who knows that the way to make money is more buyers. Lower prices equals more buyers. It’s the way they operate across the board. The desire to do the same with ebooks should not be a surprise.
MacMillan can do what they want. It’s not going to change what books I buy from the authors I like. But if I were their author, their actions would precipitate a call to my agent. Because the real losers in this pissing contest are the authors—in sales and in royalties.
Erin said on 02.02.10 at 12:09 AM • [link]
I think Sarah’s idea about giving greater transparency/spotlight to editors is the best idea I’ve heard in all this brouhaha. I’d be much more likely to follow/be ‘brand loyal’ to a given editor whose tastes I respect/recognize as similar to my own, than a big anonymous publishing house.
Gail said on 02.02.10 at 12:20 AM • [link]
Honestly the time I’m most likely to notice a publisher is when I’m filling out a request form for my library to buy something (it’s one of the pieces of info asked for). Or when something like this happens and they’re suddenly getting less then stellar press.
I keep track of authors, the only time I notice if they’ve changed publishers is if I follow their blog or newsletter and it gets announced there.
As for Amazon vs MacMillan all I can say is while I have no illusions about Amazon being some warm fuzzy beneficent entity MacMillan doesn’t seem to be winning any smart business practice awards on this and from my perspective this is looking lose lose for both of them.
Shiloh Walker said on 02.02.10 at 12:26 AM • [link]
@SB Sarah
Right now, I don’t know what I’d do-I’m in the middle of a project for Ballantine, writing for Berkley, and my head explodeth at thought of trying to write for another big place.
At some point, I’d love to work with Monique who edits @ St. Martins and if I have that chance, this isn’t likely to affect that decision. But as I’m not there…I dunno.
EliG said on 02.02.10 at 12:55 AM • [link]
In general I’m not going to care the publisher/imprint for an author I know, that I already buy. But I do look at the publisher/imprint when considering an author I don’t have experience with. I am much more likely to pick up an unknown with a Berkley imprint because many of the authors I follow are with Berkley. I avoided Tor for a while following a bad experience early on with their Romance line. So I can see where the MacMillan v Amazon issue could hurt some authors. I don’t typically buy from Amazon unless they’re the only option because I prefer to buy from the local Borders. The local Borders gets my business because of a dedicated, knowledgable bookseller. If she wasn’t working there I would probably go to the Barnes and Noble that is geographically mroe convenient. They aren’t particularly romance friendly, but I can request just about anything to pick up.
Brenda B. Hill said on 02.02.10 at 01:12 AM • [link]
I AGREE WITH YOU: My brand loyalty: to authors who write good books. Not to publisher, not to bookstore, not to vendor. Author. And Book. That is all.
I don’t think either Amazon or Macmillan is thinking about the consumer in any of their tree-pissing positioning. They just want it all in their ballpark.
Why can’t the authors add links to other book sites where the reader can just buy from their web site?? Is this possible? I don’t look to see who the publisher is when I buy a book but this may make me start to look.
Looks like someone is trying to play the monopoly game.
fshk said on 02.02.10 at 01:47 AM • [link]
Just to be contrary, I do notice publishers, and I know which imprints belong to which houses, and I always look at spines when I buy books. I work in publishing, though, so I’m not disproving your point. :-D I used to work for a big house, and I don’t anymore, but I’m always curious.
Amazon and Macmillan both acted poorly here, and I struggled all weekend with who to be angrier at: Amazon for depriving authors of sales or Macmillan for being so fool-headed about ebook pricing (not to mention John Sergeant’s mind-boggling antipathy towards ebooks). And it does affect yours truly as a consumer, since I own a Kindle (which is the only reason I’m a regular Amazon customer; I rarely purchased anything from Amazon before that, but I live in a big city with lots of nifty indie bookstores). Although, half of what’s on my Kindle came from epubs, not Amazon, so I’m not totally Amazon loyal.
I don’t have any particular brand loyalty towards publishers, I base most of my purchases on author loyalty and tend to try new authors based on reviews. (The exception here is epubs, which I have some loyalty to based on past experience, editorial standards, etc. I’m more inclined to try a book put out by an epub that also publishes an author I like, but I don’t make that same determination with the big publishers because I find there’s more variability.)
Lyvvie said on 02.02.10 at 02:30 AM • [link]
Ditto. I have no clue about publishers. I find an author who gives me a good read I’ll cling to them, defend them and be loyal until they seriously disappoint and even then I’ll simply turn the other way but not really trash them behind their back. I respect that they were there for me once and have gone off to pastures new. It’s like any friendship. I look forward to their return should they choose to come back.
Gwen said on 02.02.10 at 03:03 AM • [link]
Loyalty to the books/authors always. I’m not going to buy a book I don’t want just because I feel loyalty to a seller or publisher. Actually, I have a great fabulous best ever indie bookstore nearby that I’m very loyal too (other than convenience purchases at Borders) (see?), but there’s always too many books I want to buy. I rarely notice publisher. Except buying the Georgette Heyer reprints. The quality of the physical book is better from (oh dear, I can’t think of the name) (see?) than Harlequin.
CaseyL said on 02.02.10 at 03:13 AM • [link]
“Why should I support Macmillan when it wants to charge me more money for a book, versus Amazon who wants to charge me less?”
It’s not that simple.
Printed books come out in HC first, usually priced in the mid-$20s. There are certain writers I like enough that I’ll buy their books in HC because I want to read them that much.
About 6-12 months after the HC, the mmpb or tpb is published, usually priced at under $10. Most people wait for the book to come out in pb, because it costs less. They are willing to give up the instant access - the “Read it Now!” - for that price reduction.
As I understand it, what Amazon was insisting on doing was publish eBooks *at HC dates but charging pb prices.* That is, the eBook would be available as soon as the initial HC printing, but would only cost as much as a pb.
And yer durn tootin most people will want to buy that: get the benefit of early-access without paying for early-access? Sign me up!
But the money comes out of the author’s pocket, and the publisher’s pocket. Not Amazon’s. The writer makes money on HC, which enables the writer to write another book. The publisher makes money on HC, which enables the publisher to, well, edit, read, review, find new writers, and keep established writers happy… and, again, Amazon doesn’t do any of that.
Remember the kerfuffle over Harlequin directing slushpile writers to its vanity-publishing arm? Remember how one of the concerns was that the reading public wouldn’t be able to tell which authors were worth reading and which ones were DIY hacks? If the Amazonian sell-for-less model is the Next Big Thing, where do you think publishers are going to make up for the lost revenue? I’ll tell you: in the quality and care of the writers and books they publish.
liz m said on 02.02.10 at 04:08 AM • [link]
@ CaseyL - it is rather that simple, akshully.
Macmillian is charging double the mass market paperback price for many ebooks released only in mass market. There never was a hardcover. You can pay twice the price for the ebook or half the price (or less with store discounts) for the paperback.
The hardcover argument is the slight of hand (look here!) they’re using to distract from that and make it seem a valid marketing policy. This has been discussed many places, many times, but their excellent PR on the issue obscures it.
Kaitune said on 02.02.10 at 04:10 AM • [link]
I didn’t really notice anything about the different between each publisher until I started thinking of becoming an amateur writer. I, then, started to notice how some publishers deal with their covers better or how the writers get more control over her book format and so on. (That knowledge is strictly limited to publishers in Thailand though, I am still entirely clueless about US publishers.)
I don’t think that this issue is something I would generally recognize as a consumer. I don’t care about the publisher or any retailer as long as I get to read the book that I want.
Deb said on 02.02.10 at 05:07 AM • [link]
I find myself increasingly frustrated and angry over this issue. My first loyalty is to myself. It has to be, I have financial responsibilities which must be met before I can even think about “supporting” the author, publisher, bookseller, industry. Not poking you Sarah, but this raises a very unfair view of priorities, albeit a distinction which we engage in every time we discuss the prejudicial view of the romance genre itself.
I have found myself questioned re: sense of entitlement due to shopping for the best price, my unrealistic & unfair “expectations” of release dates and mode of delivery and format. I have found myself feeling apologetic for choosing to read ebooks vs. print published as the latter is the preferred sale within the industry.
The biggest casualty in this whole mess is author vs. reader.
Jenny said on 02.02.10 at 05:23 AM • [link]
I don’t care about publisher when it comes to my paperbacks, but if you step into the manga (Japanese comics) scene, you’ll discover publisher is huge. All of the publishers have different ways of translating the books for the English market (translated sound effects or no? Leave in the Japanese honorifics or switch them out for Mr/Mrs/Miss/etc? how many translators notes? paper quality? strict translation or loose? and so on and on…) and the fans pick up on them fast. Plus, if they really don’t like a publisher’s efforts, there’s usually a pirated version online translated by fans that, if not better, is at least different and an alternative.
While the most popular titles naturally still follow author-book loyalty, when it comes to the middle of the road stuff a lot of it’s interchangable, and then the advertisments in the backs of the books actually become important, as does building up a presence at the book stores. The little logos of most sci-fi publishers are nothing on manga spine logos. These are more like when Fabio took up a good inch and half of spine space.
Amy! said on 02.02.10 at 05:29 AM • [link]
I’m loyal to a couple or three publishers (two of them technical, pragmatic and o’reilly, and one not-usually-romance, baen). That’s because I can get stuff for value there, and I can find it.
I’ve always liked amazon; even when they were at their most raging-dickish, I couldn’t find it in me to completely abandon the ease of use. That’s a point for my loyal-to publishers to keep in mind: their websites suck, from my point of view. There’s no way they would scale to the size of amazon. All three are fine for the small collections that they have, but not for finding books. Poor search, worse reviews (if they have reviews at all), generally non-existent previews, like that.
If I didn’t have to find publishers to buy ebooks from, I’d buy more. I won’t buy DRM, and I won’t buy proprietary-format. I won’t buy from a company that has proven it’s willing to destroy parts of my collection. That all sounds aimed at Amazon ... I own around 12000 songs, all ripped from CDs that I own; I have never seen or heard of anything on the iTunes store that I’d want to buy enough to hand over a credit card (even though I own three apple computers and an ipod, and was waiting for the apple tablet with ‘bated breath).
I saw some statistics on how poorly ebooks sell, compared to print (in the blog crawl from the amazon/macmillan kerfluffle). I was interested to see how much it costs to prepare a book, and what the breakdown is (and was saddened to see authors insist that print-only expenses *must* be included in the cost for ebooks). I was surprised by how *well* they sell—I mean, *I’ve* never bought an ebook that cost $10 to rent. There’s actually a market out there for that?
All of which is a roundabout way of saying: the publishers that I remember, and that I listed above, are DRM-free ... and more than that. Their commitment to providing books to readers infuses their catalog (including the pre-ebook catalog). I’ve encountered some other publishers that I thought were similar (technical and other genres), and found that the DRM issue was a sort of touch-stone. If they’re determined (or even merely willing) to pretend to copy-protect 0s and 1s, the confrontational, even hostile attitude toward customers soon surfaces in other areas.
So ... no thanks to that. The publishers whose houses I remember—the ones I’m willing to visit, house by house, to see if they have something for me to read—are the ones that want me to find something. Their search may suck, and recommendations may suck worse, and production values may be less than stellar ... but they care enough to find the good books and deliver them to me, to be mine all mine, no compromise, and they’re worth remembering and revisiting for that.
Amy!
Cora said on 02.02.10 at 05:30 AM • [link]
I mainly care about the book and the author, but I do notice publishers and I do notice that some are more likely to publish books I enjoy than others. For example, at the moment I enjoy Roc and Juno and to some degree Orbit for urban fantasy, Tor for SF and steampunk and UK publisher Little Black Dress for contemporary romance. In these cases, seeing the publisher’s logo on the spine makes it more likely for me to pick a book from a new to me author from the shelf and read the blurb.
What is more, Tor (Macmillan’s SFF arm) has built a strong brand loyalty in the SFF community via its website/online community. This is probably also why I had no problem coming up with several authors published by Tor without resorting to my bookshelves/database, but could only come up with one author published by St. Martin’s Press (another Macmillan imprint), even though I own and read books by several.
Regarding the Amazon vs. Macmillan debacle, what infuriates me most about it is that Amazon not only pulled Macmillan ebooks (which were the subject of the dispute) but print books as well. I don’t own a Kindle, I don’t buy or read ebooks, so their pricing does not interest me (though I most certainly wouldn’t pay 15 dollars for one). But by pulling print books along with ebooks, Amazon punishes me as a consumer (not to mention the authors who are the ones truly hurt by this) over an issue I have no stake in. And for international readers like myself, Amazon is often the only reasonably cheap way of getting English language books.
Suze said on 02.02.10 at 05:39 AM • [link]
Loyal to the book, and to me. I want rewarding reads for reasonable money, when it’s convenient to me.
I have some favourite authors I go looking for, and some I’ll pay hardcover prices for, and some I’ll pay several times for. I won’t knowingly steal a book, but I will trade paper books with friends. I now prefer e-books (storage issues), but damned if I’ll pay more for an e-book than I would for the paperback.
But really, it’s all about me. If an author consistently delivers good reads, I’ll keep looking for them, and be a squeeing fangirl who JUST CAN’T WAIT for the next book (Bujold, Briggs). If they start to diverge from my taste, I’ll eventually drop them (LKH).
I’ve become more aware of publishers since coming online, but I kind of resent the knowledge. It was interesting reading about the kerfuffle this weekend, but in retrospect I’m kind of miffed that I even have to be aware of it.
Publishers and retailers need to get their heads out of their rectums and clear up their business models. I resent the guilt trip about not shopping at indie stores. There are no indie stores in my town, and the ones in the nearest cities don’t have romance sections. I resent the hue and cry about publishing companies going out of business. It’s not my fault they can’t figure out how to publish, market, and price their products.
I even resent being made aware of the financial realities of professional authors. I feel for them, and I hope to be one of them one day. But I don’t want to be guilted into buying books I don’t particularly want, just to support them in their careers.
As a consumer, I’ll buy the books I want to read, at a price I can stand to pay. Anybody who makes it hard for me to do that will lose the sale. The end.
I may feel differently tomorrow, but that’s my take right now.
Jessica Bacon said on 02.02.10 at 05:47 AM • [link]
I have never bought a book because of who the publisher was or wasn’t. It’s author, all the way.
I’ve ordered books from Amazon—not e-books, I prefer print—and I’m sure I will again. I’m not going to hold this fiasco against them as if they were selling blood diamonds.
Same with Macmillan. If they want to delay the release of e-book titles, fine. I don’t see how that’s any different than waiting for the lower cost paperback edition after the HC release.
Becca said on 02.02.10 at 06:07 AM • [link]
If Macmillan actually remembered to lower the prices, that would be one thing. But they have a habit of leaving the ebook price high, even for books that never went into hc, or so I’m told.
dunnettreader said on 02.02.10 at 06:19 AM • [link]
Amazon just won me as a loyal ebook customer, and Steve Jobs just got a big black mark next to the iPad in my book.
As I see Amazon’s strategy as it has played out over the past few months—and its new alternative pricing offer for publishers—it’s pushing a pricing structure for ebooks that recognizes what nearly all of us consumers of ebooks believe—a license to a digital copy is something quite a bit different than a physical book in terms of value to the reader, Cost of Goods Sold to the manufacturer (publisher), and distribution costs to the retailer (Amazon). Amazon is looking ahead to build an ebook industry based on higher volumes of a larger universe of books (like backlists) at low enough prices that they can be impulse buys—about the price of a movie and instantaneous to buy and receive. Amazon is fighting the big publishers who live off of a few megahits, want to milk as much as they can from that handful of titles, and are terrified that ebooks will cannibalize their hardback sales.
Macmillan isn’t fighting for a higher ebook price when the book is first issued and comes down later—Amazon already offers a “dynamic” pricing for ebooks. The ebook price is higher while the book is only available in hardback, and should (if the publishers aren’t dunderheads) come down when the MPP is issued. What Macmillan is insisting on is that the ebook price be 40-50% higher than the price Amazon wants to offer. And as hard as it is to believe, Amazon’s proposals to Macmillan were better in terms of the publisher’s revenues than Macmillan is going to get when it forces Amazon to charge the higher price. I quote from the letter from Macmillan:
Yes, indeed! The entire difference in the higher price will come straight out of the reader’s pocketbook, not Amazon’s, and all goes to Amazon, not the publisher. All the price hike does is discourage the purchase of an ebook relative to the physical book. Oh, and make price room for new online retailers to not have to compete with Amazon. Any news this week of a new retailer come to mind?
So, along comes Steve Jobs who has to have lots of bestseller content on opening day of the iPad at a competitive price with Amazon. But he can’t meet Amazon’s low prices on the bestsellers. So he has to get the retail prices on popular items raised—which is the deal he offered the six biggest publishers this week. Macmillan then used the fact the Apple iBookstore will be available to mass market their ebooks and used it to force Amazon to raise its prices.
I understand why the authors are irritated—though jeez louise there are a host of alternatives if someone wanted to order one of those books online this weekend, so their sales shouldn’t have tanked. But they really should direct their ire at Macmillan, who is so committed to their current business model they’re going to sell a lot fewer books in the long run, which isn’t good for the authors or the publishing industry. To say nothing of the readers on whom their livelihoods depend.
There’s a reason Amazon doesn’t want to price popular books for more than $9.99 even when it takes a loss on those items—the value proposition it offers its ebook customers. And it’s not simply to peddle their Kindle devices, since increasingly you don’t have to have a Kindle to read Amazon’s ebooks. You’ll even be able to read Amazon ebooks on the new iPad since it runs all iPhone apps.
Thanks a bunch, Apple, for being so concerned about your new iPad customers! And thanks a bunch, Steve Jobs, for enabling heads-in-the-sand publishers like Macmillan who don’t “get” ebooks at all to keep running their business the same self-defeating ways.
Castiron said on 02.02.10 at 07:11 AM • [link]
I’m aware of some publishers (Tor, Baen, Interweave Press, several university presses, the classic Penguin monochrome bindings) and completely oblivious to others. I know that Lois McMaster Bujold is published by Baen and Eos, and that most of Madeleine L’Engle’s fiction was published by FS&G, but I can’t tell you off the top of my head who publishes Loretta Chase, and four of her books are sitting ten feet from me.
As a reader, my loyalty is to a good read. I buy very few books cold; either I’ve read the book at the library, I’m familiar with the author and trust them to give me a decent read, or I like the author personally and am buying the book to support them. (And that last won’t happen more than once if I read the book and think it stinks.) Publisher isn’t a factor; a given publisher can produce both books I love and books convincing me the editor was high when they accepted that manuscript. Vendor—I’ll pay more for a book at the local big indie or at the yarn shop when they have the book I want on hand, because I want the book now and because I like having them around to browse in; I’m also perfectly happy to order from Book Depository or Knit Picks. (Amazon lost my book custom after the GLBT edition of AmazonFail, though I still buy MP3s and DVDs through them.)
As a publishing employee, while I’m certainly happy when a reader decides to buy a hardcover directly from us at full price, I expect readers to buy when they think the format and content are worth the money, and to not buy when they think it isn’t. You’d rather buy a hardcover from a discounter than from an indie bookstore? Then do it. You don’t want to pay $15 for an ebook? Save your money for ebooks from other publishers who charge less. You think a book is worth buying as a paperback but not as a hardcover? Buy the paperback and enjoy. You want to just check it out from the library? Go to it. Used book store? Fine. Find a beat-up copy for ten cents at a rummage sale, decide that fills your moral obligation, rip up the pbook, and torrent the pirated version? Just don’t brag about it in front of the publisher ;-).
liz m said on 02.02.10 at 07:22 AM • [link]
I’m following this discussion in several places on the web and I really, truly do not understand the dynamic at work. It’s clearly spelled out in the publishers own statements, the fact that this does not increase author revenue, the history of pricing the paperbacks at twice mass market is easy to verify, and STILL the conversation from the readers goes back over and over to hardcovers and the $10 price point and author loyalty / income.
It deeply confuses me. Its like an abusive relationship. They (Macmillian) are not treating us well, they are not treating us like the value us, they prefer other people to us, and we’re (readers) rushing to explain and defend that like we ‘walked into a door’.
Susan Chambers said on 02.02.10 at 08:01 AM • [link]
My loyalty is to the authors. I feel used by the publishers because I think they are pricing ebooks way too high. I absolutely refuse to pay more for an ebook than a print copy. Ebooks don’t have the production costs that print books do. I’m not going to just lie there and let them rape me. Okay, I’m exaggerating there, but I’m offended.
I only buy print books from Amazon because I’m not interested in the Kindle. I don’t have an ebook reader, I have several apps for my Palm and I’m happy with that.
I’ll buy ebooks that I like the price of or I’ll buy a print copy.
Jes1 said on 02.02.10 at 10:45 AM • [link]
I would not have as much of a problem with the Macmillan position on this if they did not have such a bad history of charging much more for the ebook version than the paper version of a book. I firmly believe they are lying outright when they say they will charge less when the paper back comes out. They are one of the publishers that treats those of us who prefer ebooks the worst. I know Amazon is no hero in this, but I have to say I think Macmillan is more of a villain in this particular issue.
Kooritsuki said on 02.02.10 at 02:46 PM • [link]
For me, it’s author and book first and then price. But then, I do prefer to shop at Amazon more than any other online stores. I like their customer service people, and their easy return policy, though I do not exclusively shop there.
However, for me, what Macmillan did was not acceptable. To charge $12.99 - $14.99 for an ebook with absolutely no resell value and minimum publishing cost on their part is completely unreasonable. If they succeed in forcing the price up, other publishers will follow suite. And then a couple of years down the road, they’ll do it again. That is why, on principle, I will no longer be purchasing their books.
And no, I’ve never bothered to look at who was the publisher before this, but from now on, I will.
Pat L. said on 02.02.10 at 03:15 PM • [link]
Frankly I dont care who the publisher is and since I have a Borders 5 mins away that is where I go. I also have a b&n about 10 mins away, so if I am in that area or feel like browsing there, that is where I go. I also use paperbackswap and occas a used bk store. Author and back blurb determine whether I buy a book. Sometimes recommendations or reading reviews on various sites will spur me to purchase a book.
Ulrike said on 02.02.10 at 08:16 PM • [link]
There are three authors whose blogs I follow. For two of them, I could tell you who published their books. The 3rd has two different publishers; I know the small, indie press, but not the larger, big name press. Of the hundreds of other books in my house, even the ones I’ve read repeatedly, I couldn’t name the publisher of a single one! Like you, I’m all about the books and the authors. I only know the publishers I do know because the *authors* have mentioned them enough for the names to stick, not because I actually *care* about who published what.
Brian said on 02.02.10 at 09:37 PM • [link]
Just some thoughts, which may or may not make sense to everyone. :)
I used to not care or know who the publisher of the books I bought were. That all changed when I went exclusively ebook in ‘07 (and spend over a thousand a year). Because of the vast discrepancies in the quality pricing and availability of books in electronic format I’ve found it’s more necessary for me to know who’s publishing it.
As far as Macmillan specifically it’s kinda scary for them to get such a heavy hand in pricing. They already have scary ideas on what to charge for ebooks. For example ‘The Eye of the World’ by Robert Jordan was first published 20 years ago. It’s been reprinted many many times and copies can be found in used books stores across the country very cheap (for which the publisher and author’s estate get $0). I can buy a new copy in paperback for $7.99 yet if I want it as an ebook (which is finally available) the book has a list price of $15. How does this make sense? They done the same thing with countless Tor and St. Martin’s titles ($15 ebook .vs $8 paperback). Now if you’re telling me this new pricing setup will lower prices on books like this to a more rational level then it’s something to take a look at.
I’m not as hung up as some on the whole ‘ebooks must not cost more than $9.99’ thing. If it’s an author I want and the options are a hardcover for $16-$20 ($25-$30 list) or and ebook for $12-$15 I’ll take the ebook. I am however more selective the higher the prices get. I can think of at least 10 books from unfamiliar authors I bought last year at $9.99 that I wouldn’t have at a higher price and of those at least half the authors have gone on my buy list.
Publishers. Look at Baen (and the other pubs at Webscription.net). Offer us a decent product with no DRM (DRM doesn’t work anyway) so we actually feel we own the book and let us download/re-download them in various formats so they’ll hopefully be usable on whatever device we might get next. Price them well (most books $6) and you’ll be successful. You can even price books getting a HC release at $12-$15 for those that want it right away (kind of like Baen does w/ eArcs) and it would be successful.
Keishon said on 02.02.10 at 09:49 PM • [link]
Yep, I pay attention to the publisher. In fact, Macmillan was the publisher I was buying hardcovers from until I started buying ebooks on a regular basis. My loyalty is to the authors as well but with Macmillan’s discouraging ebook prices, it’s kind hard to ignore them because their ebooks has consistently been high. I’m still waiting for JSF’s ebook prices to come down. Bottom line: I’m looking at Macmillan as an entity that wants to inhibit the growth of ebooks and it makes me not want to support this publisher at all. But rest assured, I’ll probably buy Julia Spencer-Fleming’s next hardcover book anyway because I can’t quit that series. On the other hand, I can quit Chelsea Cain.
liz m said on 02.02.10 at 09:56 PM • [link]
Someone should make a list of authors we found we could quit due to e-book pricing. For me, it’s Kleypas, Alexander, and a few more of my former automatic purchase authors. It might be interesting to examine who we stopped buying and who (if anyone) we’re willing to pay a premium for as an ebook.
sweetsiouxsie said on 02.02.10 at 10:43 PM • [link]
When I retired, I decided that my reading material would be mostly romance novels because I had always loved them and their happy endings. Looking for authors was a challenge. I didn’t know what would be good or not so good. My mom gave me some books by Johanna Lindsay. In a short time I read every book that author had in print. Then I went to B&N and found the romance section. I looked for an author who had a huge selection of books, a whole shelf full. I picked a book that had a nice color cover and I read it and loved. It was by Stephanie Laurens. I read everything she had in print. I noticed that other authors were advertised in the book so I tried some of those. That’s how I found Lisa Kleypas. All of those books were published by Avon. Hmmmm!
Thanks to the SmartBitches website and the people who write on the site, I have discovered some other wonderful authors like Loretta Chase and Laura Kinsale. I don’t pay much attention to the publisher anymore.
I prefer buying books from used book stores because all I want is the story. At this point, I don’t have a keeper shelf, I have a keeper shed. It’s 9x12 feet. Happy reading!
Flo said on 02.03.10 at 03:17 AM • [link]
I notice the publisher on graphic novels. Really because they tend to employ a specific type of genre story and particular artists. If I don’t like the style or genre I won’t buy it.
With books I rely solely on the author’s work. If it turns shitty, I drop them with a vengeance. If they improve I make sure to buy them in hardback on the opening selling day.
Perhaps that makes me picky. But if I believe in their story I’ll stick with them no matter who publishes them. I’m stilling waiting on the sequel to Dragon Tongue which was dropped from a crumbling publishing house. I keep hoping it will be published someday since it was such a fun story.
Christine said on 02.03.10 at 06:53 AM • [link]
I will not be buying anything from Macmillan until they lower their ebook prices. Charging more for an eBook than for a hardback seriously!?! My loyalty is to Amazon which has awesome customer service by the way. I do wish that Amazon had held out and not given into Macmillan’s ridiculous demands by selling their e-or paper books.
Lisa richards said on 02.03.10 at 09:38 AM • [link]
Who gives a rat’s ass who publishes a book. Not readers for sure. Author and pricing is ALL we look at. And I’m damn sure not going to pay the same or more for an ebook than a print copy. Not in my lifetime. The only time I’m aware of who publishes a book is when I see that they have a whole book free to read online (usually when the 3rd or 4th in the series comes out). And other than HarperTeen does anyone else do that?
Laine said on 02.03.10 at 12:02 PM • [link]
On my reader book files are organised in a folder labelled epub. The subfolders are one per month.
Except for the folder labelled pubishers which has subfolders labelled Baen, Harlequin, Regency Romance and Smashwords.
Every month I buy the Baen Webscription, at least 25 Harlequins, the 5 new Regency Romances and I’m just getting started buying from Smashwords.
So I have developed a loyalty to some publishers. I will always buy the Baen Webscription even if I don’t read any of the books that month. Same for Regency reads.
Generally with other publishers I go by author and recommendtions.
However I am developing a strong dislike for Tor and am disinlined to even look at their books.
Laine
Rose said on 02.03.10 at 04:36 PM • [link]
I think most readers are loyal to authors—and that’s as it should be. Books aren’t pickles. Some imprints (Harlequin, Baen) have branded themselves well enough to have a following.
I find it interesting that so many people on Team Author, but chastising Macmillan for trying to charge more for ebooks (or, more accurately trying to institute a variable pricing system similar to paper books), when they’re actually the author’s advocates in this case. Money to the publisher includes author’s royalties, and investment capital to buy more books.
Amazon’s selling those 9.99 ebooks at a loss right now, but if the marketshare grows they’re not gonna want to do that forever. Charlie Stross pointed out that the distribution chain for books used to be:
author—>publisher—>wholesaler—>bookstore/distributor—>reader
and Amazon wants to take over all the money for points 3 & 4 of that chain. Meanwhile, Macmillan, many authors, and most readers (if they thought about it) would prefer to cut one of those points out all together, so books can be cheaper, authors can be paid more, and there’s more profit for the publisher.
Then the market can work out what percentage each of those benefits should take. I really recommend reading Charlie’s whole post: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2010/01/amazon-macmillan-an-outsiders.html (and Tobias Buckell’s, which he links to at the end).
Joe said on 02.03.10 at 09:21 PM • [link]
My loyalty goes like this ME—>author —->price. I don’t usually consider publisher.
But this mess with MacMillan has made me acutely aware that I need to start thinking about them.
I don’t have a problem with their stance on pricing ebooks when it comes to a Hardcover book. I never buy hardcover anyway, so if they want to price an ebook version of a hardcover at 15.00 I don’t care. I think ppl who buy hardcover normally would probably welcome something like that, actually. But like I said, I don’t buy hardcover, doesn’t interest me.
No, my issue is that they want to charge 15.00 for the mass market book (a mass market, that incidentally, never came out in hardcover). This is untenable. To me, this is a conscious decision by the publisher to deter me from reading in my preferred format at a competitive price. How many people would pay 15.00 for a mass market pb? To me this is the same thing. So I make a conscious decision not to reward that publisher. If i like the author I go to the library and get the book or I buy used.
Becca said on 02.03.10 at 10:06 PM • [link]
so - what’s Macmillan’s romance label? or do they publish romance? who are Macmillan authors?
I hate to punish an author for the sins of their publisher.
nancy v. said on 02.04.10 at 07:51 AM • [link]
I am a romance junky who buys books by cover blurbs and occasionally authors. For instance if I find a great book, I’ll go back and pick up the rest of their books to read, and pull a marathon read-a-thon of romance. I rarely look at a publisher, although I do tend to avoid some that publish things I’m not into. (I’m not a big vampire type reader, so you won’t find me reading books in that genre at all, though I do know who publishes them, after an unfortunate purchase where I inadvertantly ended up with three of them that I couldn’t return) So I avoid that publisher. But I do love a book with a good blurb on the back. NOT inside. For authors whose publishers put the info about the story inside, I leave your books in the store, your best bet to sell to me is if I download for my Kindle PC. This is the only way the authors at Macmillan might be impacted by me because I DO download quite a bit from Amazon.
lilywhite said on 02.07.10 at 04:25 AM • [link]
This is inaccurate, actually. Amazon was still paying the same list price to MacMillan, and taking a loss on the cheap eBook. Speculation is that it was a loss leader to sell more Kindles, and that sounds right to me.
Publishers allegedly will make LESS money off the new pricing structure, though I don’t quite understand why that is. This move isn’t to net the publishers more money. Rather, this move is intended to manage consumer expectations before they get too set in stone. The entire “agency model” is predicated on the idea that publishers don’t want consumers to get used to cheap ebooks. It didn’t use to matter because it was such a niche market. Now that they’ve opened their eyes and can finally see ebooks hitting it big and becoming a HUGE market, they’ve decided that they don’t like the $9.99 price point and they want to control what retailers charge.
The principal of this thing makes me sick. You don’t get to sell something to someone and then dictate their resale price. That’s not how business works. That’s not how business has ever worked, nor should it. If Amazon wants to take a loss, that is and should be their choice. They’ve obviously run the numbers and decided that they can afford it.
ashley said on 02.07.10 at 11:43 PM • [link]
for me, it’s loyalty to an author. if she writes well she’s hooked me for the entire back story, even when some of the back story sucks (hey, we all improve right?) this actually becomes a problem because I get reluctant to try other authors and have to wait months for my faves.
also, publisher DISLOYALTY. I refuse to buy penguin books that are not written by American authors. why? because I have noticed, and I’m not the only one, that when a penguin book is translated into English from a foreign language (or even from UK material) it’s done in such a way that it reflects American styles and opinions (not to rag on Americans). Try reading the Qur’an in Penguin edition versus any other edition. it’s a bit insulting, and I’m not even Muslim.
Also, I don’t really like when North American publishers print editions of UK books and go and change all the words. I don’t know why, it just bugs me. It throws me out of the scene when I’m reading a book set in somethingshire and the characters are playing soccer. maybe that’s weird.
Care to comment?
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