Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

Help help, I’m being repressed!

That’s laying it on a bit thick.

Pointing out copy-pasted paragraphs of statistical information about ferrets:  the smallbox blankets of the twenty-first century.

1) Publishers have published plaigerized works in the past, just ask Nora.

2) I fail to see how such liberal use of someone elses words without crediting sources is honoring Native Americans.

3) I hate when people play the “My race is picked on and now look at me being picked on card”.  It’s has nothing to do with race/creed/color/gender—plaigerism crosses all lines.

3) Candy and Sarah—are you included as part of “those women” sort of reminds me of “the other woman” and affairs. 

In the words of Rhett Butler: “You’re like the thief who isn’t the least bit sorry he stole, but terribly, terrible sorry he’s going to jail. “

To clarify, I meant that I thought Cassie’s response qualified as “laying it on a bit thick”, not the SB’s post.

ZOMG!Opreshun!

It’s not exactly Godwin’s Law, but it’s definitely close. Edwards’ Law, perhaps?

I wonder if some of her Cheyenne ancestors included a Chief Sitting Bullshit?

I’m dots, not feathers, and totally offended on behalf of both!

Was she kidding when she wrote “vendicated”, or was this a typo? I hope so….. happens to everyone in the heat of the typing moment, but if not, it won’t support her cause much if she also has issues with “spellifyin”.

“She would be so proud of me if she could read what I am writing about the Indians who have been so maligned for so long”
Or, you know, what I cut and pasted from countless sources.  Honestly, if she’d just put her hand up and say that she was wrong most people would have a lot more respect for her IMHO.  Given that she’s written 100 books, most of which are probably being run through google as I type, this whole controversy is just going to run and run.

Are the misspellings and other errors in the original?  I itch for a red pen to edit it.

vendicated?  Are her books sold in vending machines?

And I suppose I ought not to pick on ‘alright’, but it seems typical of her general sloppiness.

The comment that amused me the most is “And if I couldn’t use this material my books would not be worth anything to my readers who depend on me.”  - head scratch - I don’t believe anyone ever implied that she shouldn’t use her research, just that she should not copy it verbatim.  The clue phone is apparently still ringing into empty space.

She made a lot of mistakes in the heat of the typing moment: spelling, punctuation, and so forth. (“All right” is not one word!) But I fear lingering on that will make me seem like a mean girl, so I won’t. I’m just surprised that a professional writer wasn’t a bit more on the ball with the “following the rules of written English,” even if she is traumatized by the meany meany Bitches at the moment.

Oh, dear. I don’t think the Bitches are mean at all! That might not have been clear in my last message. Thank you for all your work, Candy and Sarah.

Why do I hope this isn’t really written by her? I think I still have too much faith in humanity or something because the idea that she is trying to say she’s being picked on because of her heritage hurts my head.

No one is picking on her because she says she’s part Native American (isn’t everyone? Whether they really are or not?). They’re “picking” on her because she plagiarized!

I would have a little more respect for her if she just stood up and accepted that she did something wrong rather than blaming “those women” for “picking” on her.

I’m surprised that she didn’t take a page from the Plagiarist’s Handbook and try to claim first that she received permission from the Native authors in some sooper sekrit handshake deal to “honor” them.

Oh hell no.  She did not just place the race card… She’s gone beyond research and reference books, and this “woe is me” letter just makes her look stupid.

I think we have a clear correlation to Snacky’s Law here, what with us being such meanieheads an’ all.

*Somewhere Janet Dailey scurries out from under he rock in search of her own Native American heritage.*

:::rollseyes:::

Even if she were Indigenous, and I believe my evidence shows she probably is not, this is pretty offensive. 

Elle

I agree, Liz.  I really don’t want this to have been written by her.  I want to believe that her response doesn’t boil down to, “OMG, I’m being oppressed for being one-quarter Cheyenne!  It’s a total mean grrls conspiracy!”

The only reason I know about her heritage is because she mentioned it.  I take umbrage with her plagiarism and “noble savage” portrayals, not what race her grandmother was.

And off topic, I was taught that “alright” was, well, all right.  “Alot” was wrong, but not “alright”.  I guess you learn something new every day.

(“All right” is not one word!)

It is if you pick up one of her books in Kroger. Although in that case someone at least made an effort and instead of ‘alright’ it was ‘allright’ but I’m pretty sure the copy editor fell asleep reading that book.

No way that’s actually her. Bad books aside, no one who makes their living writing is going to whine about being “picked on now as our Native American Indians have always been picked on throughout history.”

I don’t buy it.

Also, I’m not familiar with her work, but is she likely to call them Native American Indians? I would assume anyone who actually knows that much about the Native Americans and says she is one wouldn’t use “Indian”, would they?

Can anyone please tell me WHY ppl on other loops and blogs are still insisting that this should have been kept quite and out of the news. I just don’t get it and it’s driving me crazy.

I see in the centrw’, Cassie Edwards, 1alised PDF that a book by an author called Mari Sandoz was plagiarised. Interestingly I was just coming here to report an instance of CE plagiarism I’d noticed, which is from the historical preface/note to a different Mari Sandoz book. I thought I’d read the preview of a CE book on Amazon, you see, to decide if she was as bad an author as she’s made out to be (no comment). Anyway, one passage struck me as suspiciously different in tone. Google books kind of confirmed it for me.

From ‘Flaming Arrow’, Cassie Edwards, 1997 reprint, Signet:

“By 1864, with the United States at war, ostensibly to free the black man from slavery, the white pony soldiers had accepted a policy of extermination for the red man.

This policy had been initiated as early as 1854.

To the Blackfoot, the white pony soldiers had been labeled “squaw killers,” for they had not hesitated to gun down women during their surprise attacks on the Blackfoot villages” - p 11

From ‘Cheyenne Autumn’, Mari Sandoz, 1992, U of Nebraska Press:

“By 1864, with the nation at war ostensibly to free the black man from slavery, the public had been prepared to accept a policy of extermination for the red. This policy was actually initiated as early as 1854 and 1855. It was given impetus by General “Squaw Killer” Harney’s unprovoked attack ...” -p vi

See I can’t spell either. I meant keep quiet not quite.

Pet Peeve - It’s ALL RIGHT…not ALRIGHT

ARGH - She’s a writer (or copier or whatever)... She should know better…or should be copying from better sources.

Managed to mistype my chosen username to contain “creping” instead of “creeping”. Hmph. I am pancake-ing ...

Cornel West doesn’t feel the need to steal whilst working against the oppression of black people. Elie Wiesel did not need to steal while writing his books about anti-semitism.

I don’t care if Ms. Edwards is 100% Native going back to the frickin’ crossing of the Bering Straits ice bridge. Stealing peoples’ work to spread the word about the oppression of Native Americans is still stealing. And I don’t think Ms. Edwards’ dear old Granny would be the slightest bit proud of her thieving ways.

Help help, I’m being repressed!

Bloody peasant! XD

Also: with regards to the spelling/grammar issues noted: I’m sorry, but proofreaders and editors do not exist to fix a lazy writer’s bad habits; they exist to polish and correct typos. Mistakes are one thing, but laziness and the inability to spell correctly are quite another.

Writers are carpenters and their tools are their words and they’d damn well better know how to use them correctly, no matter how beautiful they can spin a phrase. I have no sympathy for an author who cannot be bothered to crack open a dictionary/thesaurus or run a spell check program.

It’s possible that this letter if it originated from the author was written under stress (duh) but that’s no excuse not to fix the errors before going out. Does an executive chef send a dish out half-baked and shoddily presented, just because they’re under stress in the kitchen? Not if they want to keep their job they don’t…

I found this blog after reading a yahoo news article about the whole Cassie Edwards thing, and I have to tell you that I am shocked at how blatant the plagiarism has been. 

Her newest response is so over the top I almost don’t know what so say.  If it weren’t for the plagiarism of “The Laughing Boy” I could almost believe that she sincerely believes that her copy and paste work was doing research, but pulling out the race card and claiming persecution is just ridiculous.

Consider me another skeptic, I’m not sure this is her either. There’s no note from her husband at the bottom.

The Smart Bitches made yet another media outlet. Shelf Awareness tells the tale, complete with attributed quotes.
http://news.shelf-awareness.com/nview.jsp?appid=411&j=371220

Argh, let’s try to keep away from hitting the low blows, eh? The digs at her spelling and her husband etc. don’t make anyone look good.

That being said, I can’t believe Edwards wrote this either. I’d think she’d have contacted her lawyer by now…he/she would certainly have advised against such a poorly argued defence.

Her books trade in on racist stereotypes and she only gets away with it because they’re romance books; the best thing you could say about them is they’re problematic. Does she really want to go down that route? Does she really want a media article picking apart her portrayals of Native Americans? Can’t be her.

I agree that there are many great writers who don’t spell well. Not the issue.

But as an aside… “alright” is an acceptable spelling, and has been for over a hundred years. Sorry, ladies. Just ‘cause you don’t like it, doesn’t make it a mistake!

I’m sorry but I don’t see how criticizing a writer for bad spelling and grammar is a “low blow.” That’s like calling it a low blow if you point out your dentist uses Black & Decker. It’s a valid complaint and is part and parcel with the laziness argument.

Personal digs about appearance, age, etc. however, are.

(And I do apologize… I think it has nothing to do with Ms. Edwards, but grammar & spelling snobbery gets me every time.)

I already emailed this to Candy, but even the bloody introductory AUTHOR’S NOTE of _Savage Obsession_ is plagiarized.

_Obsession_ p. 5, via Google Books:

“The Chippewa, especially the Lake Superior bands, have been neglected by historians, perhaps because they fought no bloody wars of resistance against the westward-driving white pioneers who overwhelmed them in the nineteenth century.

“Yet, historically, the Chippewa were one of the most important Indian groups north of Mexico. Their expansive north woods contained valuable resources, forcing them to play important roles in regional enterprises. They have remained on their native lands, still a proud people, and continue to develop their interests in lumbering, fishing, farming, and mining.

“I found my study of the Chippewa a most rewarding and heartwarming experience. It was a pleasure to write about them!”

*coffsplutterheaddesk*

_The Chippewas of Lake Superior_ by Edmund Jefferson Danziger, University of Oklahoma Press, January 1990 (Amazon has the complete text of this book searchable online), Preface, page ix:

“The Chippewa tribe, especially the Lake Superior bands, has been neglected by historians, perhaps because they fought no bloody wars of resistance against the westward-driving white pioneers who overwhelmed them in the nineteenth century. But, historically, the Chippewa were one of the most important Indian groups north of Mexico. Their expansive north woods contained valuable resources, compelling them to play important roles in regional enterprises such as the French, British, and American fur trade. Neither exterminated nor removed to the semiarid Great Plains, the Lake Superior bands have remained on their native lands and for the past century have continued to develop their interests in lumbering, fishing, farming, mining, shipping, and tourism.”

I agree with Arethusa. I don’t really think ( or at least I HOPE! ) that Ms. Edwards wrote this. I would think that her lawyers would have told her not to comment about this until absolutely necessary. To ANYONE. PERIOD.

Unless of course she wrote it before she contacted them.

Who knows. I just know for myself, this has gone from terrible to just plain sad.

And for the ones bringing up the age thing- My 76 yr. old, full time working, 2 league bowling, hospital volunteering mother would totally disagree. Hell, she wears ME out ( I’m in my 40’s btw. )

all romance authors who use research for historicals have to use reference books to do this.

Yeah, but most of them don’t run paragraphs through the Word Thesaurus filter in order to serve up a nice dish of ‘cut and pasta’.

the sad thing is that I am writing these books now in a way to honor our Native Americans, past, present and in the future.

So she gives all proceeds of her work to Tribal charities?  If she doesn’t, then this sentence means nothing?

CNN, The New York Times, AP, everyone who those women could think of to contact.

Wow, you’all must be incredible multi-taskers; you’ve contacted EVERYONE about her—and yet when did you have the time?  Do the guys on the space station know?  Perhaps it’s time to email NASA.

Has anyone run her My Space letter through Copyscape.com, to see if she jacked it from another writer who’s been caught doing bad things?

I can’t tell you how grateful I am to Cassie Edwards for teaching me the truth about researching historical novels.  I’m off to write myself a novel set in 1930s California.  I hear that book “The Big Sleep” is pretty accurate…

Well neither the OED nor Bill Bryson in his book ‘Troublesome Words’ like ‘alright’ but they both mention it.
Bryson says that ‘even in the most respected papers ‘alright’ crops up from time to time’ then gives examples from The Observer and The Times.

The OED gives it in a quote from Stoppard.

I think I disagree with you anyway, Arlene. I know I read about a journalist on the Times who dictated his copy, because he was so dyslexic they couldn’t decipher it if he wrote it down: I’m wondering if it was A.A. Gill, but I’m not 100% sure.
And I think Agatha Christie dictated her books because she was dyslexic.

I know I’m prejudiced because my dad, brother and daughter are all really dyslexic, but for me an inability to spell is just an inability to spell - it doesn’t mean you’ve nothing interesting to say.

Whether she wrote it or not is def. up for debate - but I am convinced she would most certainly use the term “Indians” in reference to Native Americans - when this whole thing first started I checked out her website, and I believe she used the term in a note to her readers about how her writing career started etc. I think someone mentioned all that has been taken down, but I haven’t bothered to go back and look for myself.

The best thing in the letter for me? How the Bitches supposedly contacted various people in the media THEMSELVES - uhm - didn’t this get picked up by the AP and gained momentum from there?
If not, and Candy & Sarah are truly just media whores, I want to know - have you contacted Oprah yet? I would love me some of that!

But wasn’t Oliver LaFarge (author of ‘The Laughing Boy’) part Native American?  Apparently Ms. Edwards has no problem in stealing text from a fellow ‘picked-on’ Native American.

And I’m pretty sure “a lot” is headed at a very fast past toward “alot”. And why shouldn’t it be? It’s used as one word. Like “to morrow”. Remember that one? An oldie but a goodie.

Okay, I’m gonna have to go blog about this one my own time. It’s totally off topic and so fun! For a word nerd anyway.

“fast PACE” Eek!

I’d love to know what sort of comment Sherman Alexie might have on the situation, considering his past tangle with that “Nasdijj” quack a while ago: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1154221,00.html

With so much actual heinousness(I know it’s spelling something like that)to choose from, picking on her spelling and grammar seems silly and wasteful.

On this “Letter” I mentioned this in the other thread, I find it ridiculous, and reading it just pissed me off.  To say that she’s being picked on for any reason but the fact that she steals other people’s words is silly and juvenile.  To say that she’s being singled out because she’s supposedly Native is disgusting to me.

I think Dear Author was trying to verify whether this was really a message from CE through the person it was addressed to. Did anything come out of that?

Can I make a suggestion? Where it was posted in the comments I saw a line above it that said ‘feel free to pass on to friends’ or something. Maybe it would be wise to include that in the post so to avoid further accusations of taking private posts or emails and posting them? I can see a shitstorm coming from people saying that you’ve made public what wasn’t supposed to be, and though I’m not sure either if this, if it turns out to be by CE, is actually intended to be an official statement, it would be detracting attention from the issue at hand. (run-on sentence ahoy!)

Other than that, I think you have and are still handling this remarkably well. Kudos, SB.

I hope some kind of ‘official’ statement will be issued by the CE camp. Because if this is it? Wow. There are no words.

If that really was by CE then it’s rather sad that she’s stooped so low as to play the race card. I don’t remember any comments made in that vein by anyone (of course I may be wrong about that).

And the whole “when I’m feeling stronger” thing is a bit overdone isn’t it? Not to sound mean, but is she going to swoon next?

But really, this just can’t be her. I agree with the other’s who’ve said it, you’d think she’d have a phalanx of lawyers telling her NOT to say anything publicly about it while they did their stuff to get her off the hook.

She even stole the frikkin’ introductory note to her own novel?!!!

That’s just…

I’m sorry, but that clearly warrants the extra exclamationmarks.

A priceless quote from CE’s MySpace profile: “While growing up Cassie Edwards dreamed of either being a English teacher or a secretary.” Surely someone who wanted to be “a English teacher” can wrap her brain around the concept of plagiarism! Or maybe she’s still stuck on the proper use of indefinite articles.

When a certain dirty epublisher threatened me with a lawsuit for posting their email on my blog, my very well respected lawyer informed me that as long as:

it was truncated
or
it came from a second source

I was cool legally.

That said… maybe asking a lawyer of your own would be smart?  If it’s not her (sounds like her—the racist bs alone…) this could get sticky.

The changes to this line of the Danziger are really interesting. Here’s Edward’s version:

“They have remained on their native lands, still a proud people, and continue to develop their interests in lumbering, fishing, farming, and mining.”

And here is Danziger’s:

“the Lake Superior bands have remained on their native lands and for the past century have continued to develop their interests in lumbering, fishing, farming, mining, shipping, and tourism.”

Notice how Edwards slips in “a proud people” (which seems in line with the portrayal of the “noble savages”) and also deletes the references to shipping and tourism, perhaps because these industries are either not noble or not savage enough.

I dug out some of my CE books and within five minutes found another instance of plagiarism that I don’t think has been reported.  She literally changed a single comma.

Savage Passions
By Cassie Edwards
Published 1996
Dorchester Publishing
Company, Incorporated
ISBN 0843939028

p.204

“Indian corn and sweet flag in the swamp, are the descendants of beautiful spirits who still live in them.”

Algonquin Legends of New England

By Charles Godfrey Leland
Published 1884
Houghton, Mifflin and
Company

p. 339

“The Indian corn and sweet flag in the swamp are the descendants of beautiful spirits who still live in them”

The funny thing is, Savage Passions is about the Ottowa Tribe in Michigan, and Leland wrote about the Algonquin of New England. That’s some meticulous research!

Don’t know if she wrote the letter. Don’t really care. However on her myspace page in her “About me” there are references to her Indian romances and Indian series.

I do find it a bit weird that in the About me portion it’s written as if some one else is writing it. Don’t know about anyone else but if I ever got a myspace and I was talking about myself I’d use me instead of She.

Just found this blog. I think it’s great.

Heh, I didn’t even think of possible legal ramifications (didn’t think there could be any, with the ‘alleged’ and everything - is that naive?). I was merely suggesting including the original headers for the sake of clarity.

Savage Passions
By Cassie Edwards
Published 1996
Dorchester Publishing
Company, Incorporated
ISBN 0843939028

p.204

“Indian corn and sweet flag in the swamp, are the descendants of beautiful spirits who still live in them.”

The added comma is quite misplaced, but the spirits are still beautiful. This is the identical comma error I itched to correct in the letter alleged to be from Cassie.  Is that corroboration or coincidence?

I’ve never posted on this website or blog before, so this is a test.

Gwynnyd, I don’t know.  Here’s another example I just found.  This time Leland is heavy on the comma use:

Savage Passions, p.206

“But I will tell you this now – that the highest ambition of an Ottawa Indian is to become mequomoowessoo, a mystical being who enjoys all highest privileges of humanity allied to the supernatural.”

Algonquin Legends of New England, p.376

“The highest ambition of an Indian was to become a Megummoowessoo, a mystical being, which is explained differently as a fairy, faun, sylvan deity, but which means one who enjoys all the highest privileges of humanity allied to the supernatural.”

Okay, my test comment came out okay. 

I wasn’t going to post about the Cassie Edwards allegations, but when I read that she felt picked on because she was Native American, I had to post.  I don’t like when people use the race or religion card as a reason.  That clearly is not the case in this instance.

Congratulations! You guys are “those women”!

I’m so jealous. I want to be a “those women”!

Oh, come on. 

I read the stuff posted on Dear Jane last night, and it reads like a copy editing revision…  Changing punctuation and omitting a word here and there does not make something original or something not plagiarized. It makes it, well, copy edited.

Any high school English teacher would consider this plagiarism.  It’s akin to re-wording an encyclopedia/Wikipedia article in a book report.  Kids get popped for it all the time.  That’s how they learn the definition of plagiarism with a very firm _DON’T DO THAT!!!! VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN IF YOU DO!!!!_

I’m so annoyed that I can’t even think of a snarky comment to end this post.  Arrgh.

please bring a bucket…I think I may be sick

I think I may have found something copied from a work published in 1978.  It appears to have been published by the Grand Rapids Public Library, and is only available in snippet view in Google Books, which suggests it’s still under copyright.

From Savage Passions, p.206

“A bearwalker was a man or a woman who, with herbs and special words which only they knew, could instantly transform themselves into balls of fire, or assume animal forms. Anthony had explained that once the person was transformed, they were able to travel great distances quickly, and go unrecognized.”

And from:

The Tree that Never Dies: Oral History of the Michigan Indians
By Pamela J. Dobson
Published 1978
Grand Rapids Public
Library

p.82

“man-doz-it to the Potawatomi, can with hers and special words which only they know, instantly transform themselves into balls of fire or assume animal forms. Once transformed, they are able to travel great distances quickly and go unrecog-“

That’s the only text available from the snippet view.

PW has a new article about it including the myspace statement

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6522437.html

From what I remember of my Native studies, there actually is some debate among Native peoples about whether they’d rather be called “Indian” or “Native Americans.”  Of course, I’m sure they’d rather be identified by their actual nation’s name.

I think it’s time we look at this issue in the best light.

At least the Bitches found a historical author who does her research!

A final post because I’ve been following this story WAY too closely and I need to stop.  I defended Cassie Edwards at first, perhaps because I like to believe that most people are inherently good and have honorable intentions.  Call me a Pollyanna, call me a troll.  I can take it.  I can also admit when I’m wrong.  I’m not usually a backpedaler, but in light of the latest evidence, I have to say her actions are indefensible.

From what I remember of my Native studies, there actually is some debate among Native peoples about whether they’d rather be called “Indian” or “Native Americans.” Of course, I’m sure they’d rather be identified by their actual nation’s name.

This matches what I’ve read/heard.

The one thing I’m all but SURE Native Americans wouldn’t consider at all respectful and honoring is all those books titled Savage This and Savage That.

Hello, first post here after lurking a while.  I just wanted to observe the rather interesting fact that this “response” actually rather pointedly refuses to address what she’s actually accused of doing.  It’s all “those horrible people, those horrible accusations, pity me. . .”

As I said on my own blog, I feel kind of sorry for her.  Not that she isn’t in the wrong, but we have something like a quarter century of editors who didn’t have enough respect for her or her readers to find this stuff, and gave her implicit permission to continue doing what she’s been doing.

If some editor reamed her a new one back in the 80s, when they should have, her career probably could have recovered (assuming she could have learned how to write without wholesale copying) and she might have 80-some legit works to claim her own.  Instead, because everyone gave her a pass, she now has a 100-title list of debatable work which will probably be impossible to live down.

If I was her, I’d take one silver lining out of all this.  I would take some comfort that this did not happen posthumously, leaving my heirs a legal mess to clean up and leaving me no opportunity to make things right.

It’s problematical that I can spot two incorrect facts in the PW article addition.

1. The mail is allegedly from CE, something they fail to note.

2. There’s more than one body of plagiarised work that’s still under copyright. The Ferret Thing was copyrighted all along.

Sloppy reporting wont help at all.

but we have something like a quarter century of editors who didn’t have enough respect for her or her readers to find this stuff, and gave her implicit permission to continue doing what she’s been doing

No, sorry. This wont wash. She owns her theft. Her action as an adult, her responsibility.

Of course, I’m sure they’d rather be identified by their actual nation’s name.

Totally off topic, but this comment by spinsterwitch brought to mind the fact that I find the Canadian terminology “First Nations” to be quite elegant.  I think because it recognizes that the Americas weren’t inhabited by a monoculture in the way that “Native American” somewhat implies.

And back on topic, I’m quite hoping that statement didn’t really come from Cassie Edwards because it’d be such a poor reflection on her if it is.  (But hey, on the positive side: no mention of car trunks and the New Jersey Parkway!)

Since my grandmother was half Cherokee, I have as much Native American blood as CE, so I think I can say she’s full of shit.

Falling back on the plight of the Native Americans just pisses me off. 

Next we’ll be hearing her problems stem from her dog dying.

“Smartbitches came to my house and stole my land and gave me smallpox WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGNST!!!!”

but we have something like a quarter century of editors who didn’t have enough respect for her or her readers to find this stuff, and gave her implicit permission to continue doing what she’s been doing

No, sorry. This wont wash. She owns her theft. Her action as an adult, her responsibility.

I’m sorry, I don’t absolve the editors of responsibility here.  When 15 minutes of work by a librarian, or random Googling a review quote, turns up troublesome passages, there is absolutely no excuse for editors missing this stuff for years.

Note, I do not give CE a pass.  She’s apparently a serial plagiarist of high order.  But like steroids in baseball, a fair amount of blame exists for the people in charge who allowed the wrongdoing to continue because of the bottom line.

I’m brand new to SB. I found it through talk on the CE issue on a loop. Although I have been following the situation very closely and think it is an extremely important issue, I would also like to see those reviews, HABO, Cover Snark and other things I’ve been missing out on not knowing about the site.

But like steroids in baseball, a fair amount of blame exists for the people in charge who allowed the wrongdoing to continue because of the bottom line.

I don’t actually disagree with you as such, I’m just loath to let even an ounce of guilt slide of CE by implied permission.

Do I also think an editor should have caught on to this? Hell yeah!

I hang out over at Making Light and I find it very hard to believe that someone like f.x Teresa Nielsen Hayden (editor for Tor)wouldn’t have caught this shit fairly quickly. She’s fearsome sharp. Maybe CE only ever came across young and inexperienced editors.

Just remember do not accept blankets from those women. ;)

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/06/21/video-the-race-flag/

I would like to take this moment to play The Race Flag.

I’m sorry but I have to comment on this myspace response. As an aspiring writer this whole situation pisses me off. Thus far I have been pretty silent.
The mention of “what has been done to her” really gets my goat.
What about what she has done to other writers? She stole from them, like a thief in the night. Now that she has been caught she is playing the victim.
It is tantamount to literay rape.

I hope that Ms.Edwards did not really write this.

Regarding Savage Longings and its heroine, Snow Deer—there is an old song called “Snow Deer.”  Interestingly enough, it’s about an Indian Maiden and her Cowboy Lover.  Some lyrics may be found here:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=7733

I don’t have Savage Longings, so I can’t check it out and see if any lines from the song appear in the book, though ;)

I think Dear Author was trying to verify whether this was really a message from CE through the person it was addressed to. Did anything come out of that?

From Dear Author: “Updated to add: DA contacted, via telephone, a representative of Cassie Edwards to authenticate the statement below. In response, the representative replied that there would be no comment. You can all draw whatever conclusions you want from that.”

It’s not exactly a resounding “No, I never said that!” is it?

LOL!

Yeah, she wouldn’t have to plagiarize if you guys would only STOP INTERFERING WITH HER BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS!!!

I’ve waited for some sort of verification to seriously comment on the statement purported to be from CE.

As she’s chosen the no comment route instead of denial, I have to assume it came from her.

And that it follows the general pattern when someone’s accused of plagiarism.

Denial, excuses, a bid for sympathy and blaming others for the situation they’re in.

I will qualify that in my statement to the press I didn’t condemn Ms. Edwards. I condemned the act of plagiarism.

I still do.

“No comment” is PR-speak for “yes.”

Pardon me while I go shuffle my deck of race cards so that I, too, may use them when I am called on the carpet for misdeeds.

Wow.  I am really grateful for all of your and your readers’ research on this topic.  From The Education of Little Tree to The Blood Runs Like A River Through My Dreams, Native writers are not unfamiliar with outright plaigarism and general theft of our very real history as fodder for some seriously whack white writers’ game.

Marginalization of Native people not only includes the physical marginalization of reservations, but also the academic marginalization to historical prologues and it seems, the artistic marginalization that gives these white writers the gall to subsume an entire continent of a people’s history. 

Two years ago, Sherman Alexie wrote a small essay after the outing of Nasdijj called “When the Story Stolen Is Your Own,” and asked: 

So why should we be concerned about his lies? His lies matter because he has cynically co-opted as a literary style the very real suffering endured by generations of very real Indians because of very real injustices caused by very real American aggression that destroyed very real tribes.

“I do find it a bit weird that in the About me portion it’s written as if some one else is writing it. Don’t know about anyone else but if I ever got a myspace and I was talking about myself I’d use me instead of She.”

LadySnarky, I have a friend who works for a company that manages myspace pages for popular country artists- it’s a service they offer in addition to keeping the artists’ websites updated.  I’ve saved the friend request she sent me from Popular Country Artist, just so I can look at it and giggle at “Popular Country Artist wants to be your friend!”
Maybe CE has a similar setup going?  I mean, myspace is an unparalleled timesuck, and she clearly needs lots of time to do such thorough research.

Nora,

I’ve always liked you, admired your storytelling abilities, and happily bought and read your books.  You are (rightly so) an icon in publishing.

Unfortunately, now I have to add “moral crusader” to the list of things I admire about you, and I fear it’s pushed me over the line into total squee-fangrrl territory. *sigh*  Damn you and your integrity!

Ahem.

Thanks to the SBs, all the Ja(y)nes at DA, and others (not the least of whom are those poor souls who’ve done the dirty work of reading/researching) who have brought this to light and kept it there.  It’s unfortunate that ya’ll have to endure the slings and arrows aimed at you for *gasp* telling the truth.  Mean girls, indeed.

Dak

I’ve been following this, as many of my friends have, since the news broke.  Hats off to the Smart Bitches for uncovering this information, and for standing up and reminding anyone who claims not to know that plagiarism and copyright infringement are WRONG.

As a writer, I can only say that anyone who deliberately copies whole chunks of information verbatim from another source and claims it as his or her own is guilty of plagiarism, possibly copyright infringement, and most certainly theft.

And there is no excuse for stealing someone else’s work.  None.

If anyone wants to check Edwards’ My Space page for updates, it’s here:

http://tinyurl.com/3c98fk

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=109400810

NOTE: you need a faster computer than mine.  I have midbroadband and a computer with, I believe 2 gigs of RAM, but loading the page tied up my computer for a while.

dude.  she’s comparing her plagiarism to the murders, thefts, and persecution of the indigenous peoples of north america?  tell me she did not just go there.

You know, you guys and Dear Author were doing well until you all decided to post this letter.  I went and read the PW article and they haven’t put ‘allegedly’ in there anywhere.  So now this letter is being attributed to CE and no one nows if it really was written by her.

I was going to comment at Dear Author last night when I saw it but too many people were happy to believe what they wanted.

You have clear proof that Cassie Edwards plagiarized and even though some of the comments were a little too personal and gleeful I recognized the wrong committed and like many am wondering at the ramifications while hoping that the romance community does not take the brunt of the fallout.

That said, posting this ‘supposed’ letter without knowing exactly who wrote it makes everything you worked for now seem like gossip.

I refuse to comment on this letter until I know who exactly wrote it.  I guess I am wondering why you posted this - was it to be the first ones out of the gate?  If so, maybe a little commentary about what you both think would help to keep people from just assuming this is fact.

CindyS

CindyS, check at Dear Author—they did try to get confirmation or categorical denial, and got a “no comment” instead. Take it as you will.

I’ll say exactly what I think and that is this letter was written by Cassie Edwards.  We sent emails to three different individuals and place a phone call to an Edwards representative and rec’d a response that was “no comment.” 

If Edwards did not make this statement, she had the opportunity to refute it and choose not to do so.

Ah.  So no comment is now proof.  Anyone figure she’s getting a ton of questions tossed at her now and maybe someone told her all answers were to be ‘no comment’.

No comment is not proof.

CindyS

CindyS - you asked what my thoughts were and that is what they are.  As I said in the post, everyone can draw their own conclusions.  Your conclusion is different from mine.

Are the misspellings and other errors in the original?

Gwynnyd

Yes, the message is posted *exactly* as the original bulletin read.  I verified the exact wording, spelling, etc. three times before posting. 

That said, SB Sarah is right.  This isn’t about the typos, it’s about the content.  As appalling as it is.

Fair enough.

CindyS

Wow.  I’m still stunned, which after a week of this comes as a surprise.

She lifted the intro of her book?

**headdesk**

As to the statement on MySpace, all I can think of is where is her publicist?  If indeed she wrote the note, it makes the situation look even worse.

There is nothing like pulling out a race card to get people, who weren’t interested in the debate to begin with, ticked off for co-opting their heritage as a legitimate defense for what’s been done wrong.

I’m certain she’s likely overwhelmed by the response to all of this and if the note is her’s, clearly she still doesn’t understand the import of what she’s done or she doesn’t care.

Thank you Smart Bitches for continuing to stand up for the rights of writers.  Thank you Nora for being so damn professional despite how hard this must hit home.  And thank you to all of you intrepid souls who’ve done the hours of research to show that this is a serious issue across numerous published works, not a one-time instance.

Did she WAAAHLETE her MySpace?

This is like LiveJournal drama, but with less porn. :(

Just as an FYI, in my state, in a civil case, a defendant’s assertion of his privilege against self incrimination can be inferred against the defendant.

This is not true in a criminal case whereby the 5th Amendment strictly prohibits negative inferences.

In civil actions, however, (and any action against CE would be a civil one), “The rule permitting adverse inferences from the failure of a party in a civil cause to testify as to matters in issue within his personal knowledge is commonplace and elementary in our jurisprudence”

I know a “no comment” doesn’t necessarily mean “yes, but we don’t want to admit it.”

That said, my gut tells me this email was, indeed, written by Cassie Edwards.  Otherwise, I wouldn’t have posted it. 

I’ve slogged through four or five—dear Neptune, I’ve lost count—CE books and have become familiar with her writing style.  Not the stuff she copies but what is *hers.*  And this email sounds like her.  I hope I’m wrong.

As for whether she would use the phrase “Native American Indians,” the answer is yes.  Throughout her “Savage” books, characters refer to themselves as both

and Indian.  When explaining the native language the characters are speaking, the chief/maiden/whatever will say something like, “That is Indian for ____________.”  Not Chippewa, Sioux, etc.

I’m just as repulsed by the self-pitying tone of this alleged whine as the rest of you. But more so by its refusal to respond to the most important element here: that plagiarism has occurred, and that plagiarism, because it has been well-defined by law, is not a matter of mere opinion.

But I’m also getting the feeling from the prior Cassie Edwards response and from this letter alleged to be from her that reorganizing research material, then writing her own original sentences, then making a note to credit her sources, and finally telling her editor about her sources—well, it all seemed like too much work, such an onerous task, and one she should not be expected to do.

And one which if in fact she has never been asked to do is scary, but likely.
Who was the person who said wealth was the great deodorant? Well, it applies here. If CE’s books were selling, her publishers would not rock the boat by upsetting her and requiring her to work harder. They just wanted the pages on time.

Somewhere along the line, certainly at the copy editing stage, people at the publishing house would have noticed the obvious inconsistencies in grammar and in writing style. My guess is that they were told to shut up. As for people higher up, there’s a good chance that they might have found CE’s mss. so tedious and repetitious that they did not read closely after a bit. Or they got distracted by all the heaving bosoms. Sorry. Sex does that.

And I have to give some editors a bye on parts of this issue, because before the Internet, they would have had to know the original sources to catch most of the theft. And they were trusting Cassie Edwards to be honorable and to behave professionally, as most writers do, and cite any permissions needed, and so on. Which obviously she did not do, and from these letters, it appears she truly does not understand that she has committed both a moral and a legal wrong. Repeatedly. But ignorance of the law is not a defense.

CE’s claim to innocence and ignorance in this situation is laughable. Or maybe pitiable. Or maybe both. Even if this second letter isn’t by her, it’s by someone who thinks that plagiarism is OKAY. And it’s not.

I’m sorry, maybe I’m the only one who noticed that she used the word spiteful to describe the SBs.
What do they have to be spiteful about? That she rights what I would truly categorize as “Trashy Books” that may be well researched but still deal with the stereotype of Native Americans, whatever their tribe or nation, being savages?

And on a side note I have always been a horrible speller and the one book I always keep close at hand is a dictionary. I have a degree in journalism and can tell you that spelling properly will just give you that much more credibility in any forum.

Also you don’t have to contact the news media sometimes because they enjoy reading sites like this to get away from some of the daily grind. In some places even the lowest person in the chain of command is asked to come up with story ideas and to provide some sort of a springboard for the writer’s research.

I am so repulsed that I can barely think. I don’t know where to start: her idea that her horribly offensive stereotypes of Native Americans sexing up the white wimmins are “honoring them”? Her stance that she has done “nothing wrong” despite the fact that she STOLE, WORD FOR WORD, other peoples’ hard work? Her complete and total lie about Sarah and Candy contacting all those news organizations? Hiding behind her dead grandma?

Good God. There really is nothing to say.

This is like LiveJournal drama, but with less porn. :(

And fewer cat macros.

see I told you I was a horrible speller. I meant “write” not “rights.”

oh poor poor pitiful CE…not hardly.

One of my biggest pet peeves is the popular “it’s not my fault” stance, when clearly it is. Is she afraid that she will seem weak if she admits she was wrong, or does she feel it has just gone to far for her to back-up now. 
I can respect a person who makes mistakes, admits it, and is willing to pay the consequences. I know that is one of the hardest things to do, but the RIGHT thing.
Now is time to step up to the plate and take it like a woman.

sorry for my ramble…

Okay, CE is in a self-made, inexcusable mess, agreed. I also agree it’s likely ‘no comment’ means she did indeed write that post herself.

HOWEVER, we must also consider another possibility, which if she didn’t actually write it, must make her ‘swooning distress’ all the worse—-It could be that her lawyers have *finally* told her to just shut up and not respond to anything==ANYTHING==not even to say she didn’t write that pathetic example of taking no responsibility whatsoever. If ‘no comment’ is the lawyers’ new law to her, then, well, there you go…or there she goes…

“Notice how Edwards slips in “a proud people” (which seems in line with the portrayal of the “noble savages”) and also deletes the references to shipping and tourism, perhaps because these industries are either not noble or not savage enough.”

I noticed the same thing, but couldn’t be as witty or cogent.  Thank you, Laura!

Misquoting Monty Python… that’s almost as bad! ;)

This makes me sick, especially since she invoked Native Americans and they experienced as a shielf of “geez whiz, I’m getting treated just like them!” I’m not gonna beat around the bush, this lady is an idiot, a coward and I hope she doesn’t get away with this.

I love how she’s acting like people are attacking her for no reason, I can’t stand people like that… especially ones that have made a lot of money and fame by stealing and acting innocent about being thieves.

I really want to hope that this message wasn’t written by Cassie Edwards. The tone of it smacks of the girls’ locker room in eighth grade—definitely as close to an evocation of Snacky’s Law as makes no difference. Plus, the comparison of getting called on the shit she pulled to race hatred gets on my nerves. A professional author ought to know better.

Sadly, I find myself believing that she may well have written it. A lot of authors have blogs and suchlike nowadays, and all sorts of folk in the public eye keep MySpace profiles. And Lord knows that professional writers are capable of throwing tantrums when called upon (Laurel K. Hamilton, Anne Rice). If she didn’t write it, she should deny it immediately, because it’s not doing her any good in the public eye.

And on a completely insensitive note . . . the mental image of the Smart Bitches in high-school-girl getups, tormenting a poor CE in the hallway, made me grin. Somebody needs to photoshop that.

I’m still shocked that she had the audacity to compare her (well deserved) public humiliation to the sufferings of the Native American people. It reminds me of PETA saying that chicken farming is a modern day Holocaust. It’s offensive, disgusting, and it trivializes the suffering of innocent people.

No, Cassie, your embarassment is NOT equivalent to the Trail of Tears.

You’re right, Liz.  Needs moar cat macros!

Yes, still off topic, but COME ON:

(And I do apologize… I think it has nothing to do with Ms. Edwards, but grammar & spelling snobbery gets me every time.)

Why is it that writers are the only artist who are given a bye for not polishing their own work? “They’ll fix it in editing” is not an appropriate response. What painter says “Oh, the art dealer will finish the details”? What sculptor says “I’ll leave the rough bits for the installers to smooth out?” What composer says “Okay, here’s the melody, I’ll let the conductor work out how the harmony goes”?

How is learning how to use the tools of your craft correctly “snobbery”?

I think I disagree with you anyway, Arlene. I know I read about a journalist on the Times who dictated his copy, because he was so dyslexic they couldn’t decipher it if he wrote it down: I’m wondering if it was A.A. Gill, but I’m not 100% sure.
And I think Agatha Christie dictated her books because she was dyslexic.

Dyslexia is not laziness, it’s a medical condition. They are NOT the same thing. A writer who dictates because of dyslexia is not lazy, any more than one of my LJ f-listers who has crippled hands is lazy because he’s now using speech recognition software. DUH. Apples, orangutangs.

And let’s face it, the grammatical errors here span far beyond “alright”. Dissect this sentence and see for yourself:

“I hope that you will tell your friends, who are so much also mine, the wrong that has been done to me, and tell them that I will get through this. I will be found innocent and vendicated of any wrong.”

who are so much also mine ??

and it’s wrongdoing, not wrong.

Bad structure, inappropriate word choices… this is poor craftsmanship. Nothing snobby about it. Or do you not care when you buy furniture with nails sticking out?

If this is her statement this damns her as much as the cited passages do, because it shows clearly why she would feel the need to do something like this in the first place.

Does/did Ms. Edwards do her own research? I’m not giving her an out. I’m anticipating, if she has assistance with the research, that she’ll blame it on the researcher.

How is learning how to use the tools of your craft correctly “snobbery”?

XD I cracked myself up. My HTML fu is not strong… let’s try that again:

How is learning how to use the tools of your craft correctly “snobbery”?

Arlene, this isn’t something she’s trying to have published. This is (allegedly) a message she sent on MYSPACE. Picking on her grammar and spelling for this is like being upset that a person who shoplifted had bad hair; it’s completely missing the point.

I’m sorry, but i’m a little confused as to why there is any debate about this?  She plagiarised.  Period!

I really don’t see how the fact that she writes romance makes a difference.  Ideas that are not your should be sited.  If she was ignorant to the fact that what she was plagiarising then she should release a formal applogy (not the self indulgent whine fest she released) and start citing her sources!

I can reccomend an excellent book to her by Sylvan Barnet.  Infact, i’m going to quote it right now!

From A Short Guide to Writting About Art:

“If you borrowed any ideas, be sure to give credit, usually in footnotes, to your sources.  Remember that plagiarism is not limited to the unacknowledged borrowing of words; a borrowed idea, even when you put into your own words, requires acknowledgment.”  p.166

“Never copy a passage by changing an occasional word, under the impression that you are thereby putting it into your own words.  Notes of this sort may find their way into your work, your reader will sense a style other than your own, and suspicions of plagiarism may follow.  It is worth saying again that you should either quote exactly, and enclose the words within quotation marks, or summerarize drastically. In both cases be sure to give credit to your source.” p.267

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. It’s not a private email communication, it’s an open post that is meant to be distributed, and therefore may be considered the same as a press release. This is not the same as if she had been surprised by a film crew at the grocery store in curlers and a hairnet. This is a writer’s PUBLIC statement that she (allegedly) drafted herself. Is this the face you would want to show, in light of the allegation that you can’t write your own stuff without help?

Sorry, but it is exactly the point. Unless she did it (if it is hers, which has still not been proven) purposely poorly, to give the impression that she is indeed upset and flustered and shocked, which would imply an even deeper, darker purpose to it, one of premeditation.

Since I’m not willing to suspend my disbelief that far, the alternative is that it’s poor craftsmanship.

I’ve been musing on the difference between schadenfreude and indignation, because I suspect that some people think the comments on this site are the former. And I’ve been thinking about my own complete and utter lack of sympathy for Cassie Edwards at this moment, and my desire that she be punished—as in lawsuits, being dropped by all her publishers, being shunned by all romance writers, being the name people bring up as shorthand for a plagiarist, etc.

And I have concluded that indignation trumps them all. I am outraged that this person has so debased herself and the writing profession. I do understand how people can come to this. That’s why I have no sympathy. Because it was wrong from the first moment, and she always had the choice to be a more morally upright person. And she chose not to be.

Shakespeare said it so well: “Cry ‘Havoc!’ and let slip the dogs of war; That this foul deed shall smell above the earth With carrion men, groaning for burial.”

1. There is using reference books, and there is COPYING OUT OF REFERENCE BOOKS. There is a distinction.
2. People expect you to do research. Duh. Just not to rip it off while changing 2-3 words.
3. This is not about picking on Indians.
4. Or your great-grandmother. Who you seem to hype constantly for someone you probably didn’t even meet or know for very long if you did. And really, your great-grandmother would probably be ashamed of you right now.

On the Publishers Weekly article, it says:

Smart Bitches posted a message today in which Edwards supposedly wrote to one of her MySpace fans,

They slipped in that supposedly. Which to me is as good as allegedly.

In any case, if this statement was written by Cassie Edwards, my estimation of her has sunk quite low. It’s one thing to “not know” it was wrong to not cite sources. It’s another thing to plagiarize. It’s yet another thing to blame someone else for it. Hell, she’s not even really blaming someone else for the plagiarism. She’s saying that the Smart Bitches are accusing her of something she didn’t do.

It’s as black and white, CE plagiarized, and she’s stopping at nothing to throw the blame somewhere else. What, did the Smart Bitches go back in time and sneak in the plagiarized passages on her galleys before the books went to the printers?

Lord Almighty, someone needs to learn to take responsibility for their actions.

The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material. 

The irony would be too delicious.

The Romance Author who is without sin…

Poison Ivy, are you sure that was Shakespeare? I could have sworn that was Shadow Bear…;)

Joanna spewed:

The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material.

The irony would be too delicious.

The Romance Author who is without sin…

And this is why the issue should be examined publicly—so that when trolls sound off, they can be proven to be full of crud in front of every one who cares to look.

~The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material.~

They’re free to do so—and so are you.

Maybe I’ve made a mistake or two along the way. I hope not. I know there wouldn’t be citing after citing after citing of wholecloth copying. And if you find a mistake I’ve made, please post it here. If it’s valid, I’ll take my lumps. I’ll deserve them.

I’m not without sin—I’m sinning now in my head at least for what I’m thinking about your comment.

However, you’re free to imply what you like. I’m still going to take a stand against something I believe is wrong.

A few more examples I found. It took me about 30 minutes. I don’t think anyone is picking on CE. The way I see it right is right and wrong is wrong and in my opinion what she’s doing is wrong. Marissa

Wild Whispers pg 27

Since his sister was still a child, she wore a hairdo which young girls wore until they reached their menarche, maturity. Her hair was braided in three sections, one on either side of the head, and another in the center. Three braids were brought to the top of the head to form a little topknot, secured with a ribbon.

The Mexican Kickapoo Indians by By Felipe A. Latorre, Dolores L. Latorre pg 173

It is easy to distinguish a Kickapoo girl before her menarche, as her hair is dressed in a particular fashion to indicate that she is still a child and not a senorita (young lady). The Hair is braided in three sections: one on either side of the head and another in the center. The three braids are brought to the top of the head to form a little topknot, secured with a ribbon.


Wild Whispers pg. 33

The Kickapoo, as a tribe, used the same brand on all of their cattle - a circle with a hook. This circle might be placed in various positions. The hook might be upright, downward, to the left, to the right, or in the four other positions between them.

The Mexican Kickapoo pg. 121

Although the Kickapoos, as a tribe or as individuals, have not registered their livestock brand in Muzquiz, they have used one for many years. Until the forties, all of the Kickapoos owning livestock used the same brand, a circle with a hook. This circle may be placed in various positions. The hook may be upright, downward, to the left, to the right, or in four other positions between these.

Savage Whispers pg. 8

On each instep there was a bright disk of beadwork - an eight-pointed star, red and pale blue on a white field- and there were bands of beadwork around the soles and ankles. The flaps of his leggings were wide and richly ornamented with blue, red, green, white, and lavender beads.

The Way to Rainy Mountain by N. Scott Momaday pg. 83

each instep there is a bright disc of beadwork - an eight-pointed star, red and pale blue on a white field - and there are bands of beadwork at the soles and ankles. The flaps of the leggings are wide and richly ornamented with blue and red and green and

The Romance Author who is without sin…

Aaaaand yet another example of “Keep it quiet,” “Stick together, sisters,” and “How dare you bring up the negative stuff?” How will the genre grow, improve, and gain respectability if people aren’t willing to speak up when they see something that’s wrong and needs fixing?

The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material. 

The Romance Author who is without sin…

The sin of plagiarising? That’s the only “sin” I see here.

There are a lot of romance authors (read: the majority) out there who write their books without copying word for word from other works.

Btw- I’m on vacation this week. And as the chore of clearing out my son’s room holds little appeal ( we don’t call him “Hurricane” Andrew for nothing) AND I noticed a large quantity of CE’s books at my local library, if there are any titles not yet gone through…... let me know via my e-mail.

Authors who have nothing to hide have no problem with you checking their work.

FYI I’ve personally checked one of Nora’s books myself.

The wording in a couple of passages in Morrigan’s Cross sounded familiar to me, so much so that I remarked about it in discussions.

So I checked them thru several resources and they were not found ANYWHERE else, it was just the lyrical tone and dialouge style of the race speaking is often similar.

NOTHING plagiarized. So I kept reading the book and the subsequent books in the series and highly enjoyed them.

Ms. Roberts,
I believe you are now my new hero.

CJ.

Joanna, I wish I were a nun who could smack your hand with a ruler. What you said was mean and un-called for. This isn’t a witch-hunt. The allegations against Ms. Edwards are worthy of further pursuit—as even her publisher has now agreed. Ms. Roberts, as far as I can tell, has called for fairness and ethics in her craft.  I don’t understand why you took a shot at her. Did you really mean to be so spiteful? MplsGirl

It’s not a private email communication, it’s an open post that is meant to be distributed, and therefore may be considered the same as a press release

I was under the impression, from the original posting of this on the other comment thread, that this was not actually a bulletin.  That it was a message within the MySpace site, though CE had given permission to forward to “friends” which I believe also makes it possible to post here.

What can I say, I like my hairs split.

The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material. 

The irony would be too delicious.

I’m having a flashback to 3rd grade, when I said to the little boy across the aisle “Oh yeah?  Well you’re stupid too!”

Totally off the CE email topic, have Sarah and Candy heard back from the publishers of the works that are still under copyright? I guess I’m just concerned that they’ll collaborate in brushing it under the carpet—sort of like how there’s a House Ethics Committee, but rarely do they take any action because when the majority shifts, they want to be able to point out that they didn’t go after the last representative who was bribed or whatever.
If the publishers of The Fatal Shore and Laughing Boy (which funnily enough is now out in a Signet Classics edition) are ignoring this, than maybe an effort should be made to track down the authors’ agents. If the SBs or others want to start some effort along these lines, I’d be happy to volunteer for that.

Joanna, I don’t know which of us is more sad.  Me for enjoying the downfall of an arrogant liar, or you who assumes the entire profession is made up of them.

Edwards, to all evidence, is an abhoration.

~The only thing that could make this better would be if Smart Bitches started going through Nora Roberts’ books with that same fine tooth comb and found some more “lifted” material.~

Wow, I really read that differently… I thought Joanna meant that we should go thru LaNora’s books to see if we found some of her material lifted and re-used in CE’s repetoire. The rest of you seem to feel that she meant that Nora was plagiarizing, also? Now I’m wondering exactly what Joanna meant.

~I thought Joanna meant that we should go thru LaNora’s books to see if we found some of her material lifted and re-used in CE’s repetoire~

If this is the case I completely and sincerely apologize. And would say that my writing style and usual subject matter wouldn’t fit in a CE book.

could be Dragonette..

I’m generally clueless and dense as a stick without ...the
” she said ironically”
” she said sarcastically”
“she said with all seriousness”

Dragonette, if that were the case, I would offer my apologies for calling Joanna a troll.

Hey, I keep looking to see if she published this in her name…

By the shores of Gitche Gumee,
By the shining Big-Sea-Water,
Stood the wigwam of Nokomis,
Daughter of the Moon, Nokomis.
Dark behind it rose the forest,
Rose the black and gloomy pine-trees,
Rose the firs with cones upon them;
Bright before it beat the water,
Beat the clear and sunny water,
Beat the shining Big-Sea-Water.

Oh, for those wondering this is Longfellow.. As in, *cough* Longfellow serenade such were the plans I made… etc etc etc. Yeah, that Longfellow.

Longfellow would be a fitting name for one of CE’s heros teddypig, quit giving her ideas!

I would venture to say that the line “The Romance author who is without sin..” pretty much puts to rest the idea that Joanna meant anything benign with her comments towards Nora.

How is learning how to use the tools of your craft correctly “snobbery”?

This wasn’t a critical discussion of a book. We were talking about a letter. A letter, one has to assume, that was written in high emotion, whatever you might think of that emotion.

And by snobbery, I mean the personal opinion that “alright” is tacky and incorrect even though it’s listed in the dictionary as an acceptable spelling. I mean mocking people who aren’t great spellers. I mean putting someone down because their first drafts might be messier than you’d expect.

Some people have a skill for spelling and others don’t. It has nothing to do with a writer’s imagination or her ability to craft beautiful imagery. And what does it matter to you, anyway? If a certain writer needs more in depth copy editing, then the editor makes the decision whether or not it’s worth it to take that person on.

N. Scott Momaday????

Holy baby Jesus hot glued to the creche! *

Honestly, in the world of American Indian penned fiction… dude, that’s a pretty big name to be lifting from.  Maybe in stead of asking Sherman Alexie for a quote somebody should have him and Leslie Marmon Silko check their stuff against hers.

*from Ellen DeGeneres’ show

Ms Edwards shouldn’t be feeling sorry for herself. Although her reputation is in ruins outside her arena of fans, that doesn’t matter because she did not have much of one outside her fans originally (by definition). I’d like to see evidence that she has lost any fans over this.

She has had a long, illustrious career and has made a good amount of money. She has been incredibly lucky so far in not being caught. Unless she has been not very prudent with her finances, a fair percentage of that may go as damages to someone or another while still leaving her with an okay amount.

Still, that doesn’t even mean her career is over because of this. I think we all should be patient before anyone starts feeling sorry for anyone.

I want to see the power of law and public opinion in this matter. We’ll see if this is duly handled.

If not, some serious reforms are required.

However, it is very possible that she will be harboring a grudge against this website. You can see the track of thought ‘oh, if it wasn’t for them…’, not to mention the previous reviews of her books on this website.

Meanwhile, I hope she breaks out of the flawed thinking and ethics that have taken her down this dark path.

Goodness, Nora Roberts, you are now my Goddess!

Yeah, I kinda thought N. Scott Momaday was a bad person to plagiarize—too high profile!  That’s huge!

Velma:  Signet books, here’s your plagiarist!

The villain cringes as Velma tears off the mask.

Shaggy:  Why…it’s…Cassie Edwards—the famous novelist!

Edwards: And I’d have gotten away with it if it hadn’t been for those meddling bitches and their blog!

Scooby:  Scooby-doobie-dooooo!

(I cross-posted this from my blog)

I tried an experiment.  I decided to spend part of my evening hunting down some CE sample text, look through it, and see if I can Google a lifted passage.  I decided this at roughly 7:30.

The seventeen subsequent minutes were spent as follows:  Fifteen minutes launching Amazon in my browser, searching for Edward’s work, finding a random book of hers that allowed the “search inside” feature, and scanning the pages for likely candidates.  Two minutes punching a few phrases into Google.

I got a hit.

From Savage Intrigue by Cassie Edwards, Leisure Books 2007 p4-5

Wakan Tanka breathed life and motion into all things, both visible and invisible. He was over all, through all, and in all. Great as was the sun, and good as was the earth, the greatness and goodness of the Big Holy were not surpassed by either.
The Dakota could look at nothing without seeing Wakan Tanka; they could never evade his presence, for it pervaded all things and filled all spaces.

From Land of the Spotted Eagle by Luther Standing Bear, Bison Books 1978 p179

Wakan Tanka (the Great Spirit) breathed life and motion into all things, both visible and invisible. He was over all, through all, and in all, and great as was the sun, and good as was the earth, the greatness and goodness of the Big Holy were not surpassed. The Lakota could look at nothing without at the same time looking at Wakan Tanka, and he could not, if he wished, evade His presence, for it pervaded all things and filled all space.

So in less than half an hour I was able to hunt down a random piece of Edward’s text, find its correct attribution, transcribe it, and write a blog post about it.

That’s how bad it is.

Scoobie—??!

[gah!]  Fresca, all over the keyboard—!

The post from Scooby-Doo is just tooooo funny!  Love it.

Oops, one little correction.  The quote from Luther Standing Bear actually doesn’t have “(Great Spirit)”

I got the citation from an academic website that was using the same quote (with proper attribution) and inserted the explanatory text with parenthesis rather than the brackets I am used to.

I since found his text on Google Books, and actually saw that Cassie lifted the whole next paragraph too.

Have a box of Scooby Snacks, Scoob!

Hee!

I have never read a Cassie Edwards novel but have definitely heard of her.  And I must admit, I have always wondered how one woman could write 100 books in 25 years.  That comes out to 4 of those big books a year.  Because my favorite authors only write 1 of those big books a year.  So naturally I was curious as to how this lady could do it.  Well, I guess I now have my answer.  She cheated.

Jeez, you found even more?! I’m beginning to wonder if she didn’t just buy a couple of research books and randomly insert badly written romance scenes in between the informative paragraphs.

Donna,

There are people who achieve that, but they are very self disciplined and hard workers. 

And than there are people who use ghost writers.  I used to read a lot of espionage thrillers and you could tell when a writer got big enough to employ ghosts because their output would increase much faster than their previous novels *cough*Tom Clancy*cough*.

When I was writing a speculative alternate history book (fiction in a non fiction style I guess), I was producing about 2000 words a day. 

There is also a question of grind house authors.  There are publishers who will sign an author to a contract that they produce a book in a month.  Or less.  And it happens.  None of those novels are going to win any Nobels for Lit or Pulizers though. 

It all really depends on the genre you are working in and the expectations of the publisher.

And by snobbery, I mean the personal opinion that “alright” is tacky and incorrect even though it’s listed in the dictionary as an acceptable spelling. I mean mocking people who aren’t great spellers. I mean putting someone down because their first drafts might be messier than you’d expect.

Some people have a skill for spelling and others don’t. It has nothing to do with a writer’s imagination or her ability to craft beautiful imagery. And what does it matter to you, anyway? If a certain writer needs more in depth copy editing, then the editor makes the decision whether or not it’s worth it to take that person on.

When did the pursuit of excellence become “snobbery” and why are so many content to settle for anything less? If you settle for junk that’s just what you’re going to get. And it goes beyond “alright”, which is in some but not all dictionaries and although it is indeed common usage, common usage no more equals proper speech than urban legend equals truth, simply by repetition and recognition.

And we’re not talking about the antics of some tweener fanfic writer, or a dabbler, or an occasional commentator, we’re talking about someone who has made a career out of writing, with thirty plus years in an industry. Not a novice, not a newbie, but a professional with more time in her field than most people commenting on this blog have had in theirs. For such a person, good writing should be innate and unconscious, even under stress; it should be second nature, simply through 100 books of sheer osmosis, if nothing else. That doesn’t mean perfect the first time, but the inconsistencies of that letter suggest that if she wrote it, she either didn’t reread it or she approved it as is.

It has everything to do with the subject at hand because it gives credence to the idea that her writer’s voice is not her own… or that her real voice is not the one she’s been putting forth. That’s the writing equivalent of lip synching or air guitar. If you want the illusion without the substance, that’s fine. But demanding an artist not only do their own work but know HOW to do it is not snobbery.

Pay no attention to the badly constructed manuscript behind the curtain; the editor will clean it up. Shove it under the rug; as long as she churns out books, who cares how good her grammar is?

Demanding better than that is not snobbery. It’s not even asking too much, said the ferret.

If you don’t know how to spell, learn! If you have dyslexia (and, oddly enough, the dyslexics in my family can type well enough, they just can’t write in longhand) learn to use a spellchecker! Need work with synonyms or parts of speech, or punctuation? Practice! Play the word games on the dictionary websites and build your aptitude! It’s not an inherited quirk like perfect pitch or wiggling your ears, it is an acquired skill set! There’s no excuse not to hone your skills if this is your trade!

If given the choice between reading something poorly spelled but brilliant or perfectly spelled but gawdawful I would naturally choose the first, but the point is, WHY should I have to choose when they’re both so very important? That’s why there’s two marks in figure skating: technical and artistic. You cannot have one without the other, and that goes for writing as well.

And I care because I read and I write, and although I am far from perfect, I am for the most part clear and concise and use the words I want to use in their appropriate contexts, except when I choose not to be clear, or, as in this case, cannot make this more concise without changing the content, and so I apologize for the length, but nothing else.

(see “Fenimore Cooper’s Literary Offenses” by Mark Twain for a much better, and funnier, explanation of whatever point I was trying to make.)

Katherine, After I wrote that, I knew someone might take it the wrong way.  I didn’t intend that at all, honestly.  I know there are writers out there who are fully capable of producing lots of manuscripts during a one year period - the correct and honest way.  And yes, I have heard of grind house authors.  But I didn’t mean that it couldn’t be done -producing lots of books during a one year period.  I just meant that all that has been brought to light (about CE) explains how she was able to do it.  I was only referring to her, no one else.

When did the pursuit of excellence become “snobbery”

The pursuit of excellence for yourself isn’t snobbery. Looking down your nose at other people is. (And let me be clear that none of my remarks have been about Ms. Edwards’ ability to write or not. Just generalizations.) I’m fascinated with the evolution of language, and also fascinated with the idea that the evolution must stop right here! So “all right” shouldn’t become “alright” even though “already” is fine because that happened before my time. Likewise “a lot” shouldn’t become “alot” because it’s just lazy and only ignorant people use it. Hell, spelling of most words was a fluid art until the twentieth-century! It evolves more slowly now, but it still evolves, much to some people’s chagrin.

But I digress. Spelling is a tool, as you said. Frankly, I have no problem with spelling or grammar issues. It’s a relatively strong tool for me. My plotting tool? Errr… it needs constant sharpening. I have to work at it and I do. So I don’t throw stones at people who have to work at the spelling part or the dialogue part, etc. Now once it’s in print, I expect to not be able to tell which writer has which weakness, if you know what I mean. But as for posting on blogs or writing letters or sending emails… None of my beeswax.

(None of this having anything to do with my opinion about plagiarism. Nobody should have a tool labeled “copy and paste!”.)

Myself, I prefer ‘alright’.  Why?  Because to my strangely-wired mind ‘all right’ is merely the opposite of ‘all left’.

Dyslexic, and an EnTP logophile.

Just to be sure my daughter knew better I asked her two questions.

1) Can you copy, or copy and paste from any source (book, encyclopedia or on-line)?

Her answer: NO

2) What is that called?

Her Answer: Plagiarism

She’s 12 and in 6th grade. 

What CE did was wrong.  She has no excuse.  I don’t know what punishment is appropriate.  I would think pulling all books off the shelf and then letting the lawyers hash it out is going to be as far as it goes. 

She’s already been held up to public scrutiny and found lacking.  I am sure this is all mortifying for her (as it should be).

I’m sorry if this follows the questions being asked in one of the other threads.  I keep seeing 165 or 190 or whatever comments and don’t know which one I saw the ‘what punishment do you think is right?’ question.

SamG

I think I can answer the question of how long CE has been plagiarising: More than 20 years.

20 minutes and two windows open to GoogleBooks found the following from Savage Heart, originally printed in 1985.

Savage Heart (original c/r 1985, reprinted 2007, Zebra)
pg 33: She had also read that the descendants of those ancestors inherited the right to display symbols of the supernatural being to demonstrate their noble descent and that the painted or carved motifs were referred to as “crests,” a brand of sorts, which established legal ownership.

Indians of the Northwest Coast by Philip Drucker, 1955, reissued 1963, Published for the American Museum of Natural History [by] The Natural History Press, Original from the University of Michigan; 
pg. 181 [...] of that ancestor, in the proper line, inherited the right to display symbols of the supernatural being to demonstrate their noble descent. Whether painted or carved, the motifs are often referred to as “crests” [...]

Savage Heart
pg 44: “Berries,” he said, leaning over to take a squarely wrapped skunk-cabbage leaf from the basket. “An assortment of berries. They have been cooked together to a pulpy mass, poured into rectangular wooden frames lined with these leaves, and dried into cakes.”

Indians of the Northwest Coast
pg 54: For storing, the berries were cooked to a pulpy mass, poured into rectangular wooden frames lined with skunk-cabbage leaves, and dried into cakes.

I’m sure there are more—there are quite a few passages which are highly suspicious, but I didn’t have any luck finding their source.

I’m with you, Arlene.  Thanks for your passionate and eloquent defence* of spelling and grammar!

*English spelling - I’m not being ironic.

I never thought the discussion would get so heated about ‘alright’ and lead to accusations of snobbery. Ok, I admit it. I can be a snob about spelling.

But if you look in the on-line dictionary you’ll find this:

Already and all ready, as well as all together and altogether have separate meanings.

Copied from dictionary.com -

—Usage note Although already and all ready are often indistinguishable in speech, the written forms have distinct meanings and uses. The phrase all ready means “entirely ready” or “prepared” (I was all ready to leave on vacation). Already means “previously” (The plane had already left the airport) or “so soon” (Is it lunchtime already?).

—Usage note The forms altogether and all together, though often indistinguishable in speech, are distinct in meaning. The adverb altogether means “wholly, entirely, completely”: an altogether confused scene. The phrase all together means “in a group”: The children were all together in the kitchen. This all can be omitted without seriously affecting the meaning: The children were together in the kitchen.

Alright and all right mean the same thing. There has been a suggestion - at http://www.word-detective.com/back-q.html - that if alright is used strictly as an adverb that means ‘satisfactory’, and all right as an adjective where it means ‘completely correct’ it could follow the same pattern and the formal usage could change. But that has not yet happened. If you use it that way, you may be able to convince me that you are in the vanguard of a grammatical revolution, but I’d probably still cringe. The nuns who taught me that all right is the only correct version thwacked me too often, I guess.

If alright is used interchangeably with all right, where would you draw a line? Would you be comfortable with alstar (Tiger Woods is a golf alstar)? or alaround (I need to do cleaning alaround the house.)? 

Besides, if English didn’t have weird rules and constructions, would it still be English?

And you’ll note from the exact same source: “already, c.1300, compound of all + ready. Colloquial use in U.S. as a terminal emphatic (e.g. enough, already!) is attested from 1903” 

Which was exactly my point.

And to make my point again, it doesn’t matter to me how any one person feels about the word “alright”. (

<= Note that I feel strongly about not putting punctuation in a quoted phrase even though that's not the American style of doing it.) The

snobby (dare I say rude) part is publicly mocking someone for any misspelling. I have no idea who the original poster was. I don’t have enough concern to go back and look. I wasn’t accusing Arlene of it; she just asked me for clarification of my thoughts.

After finding out about this in the NYT I was laughing so hard, because I just had to give seven of my students in one of my classes zeros for plagairising.  Four of them used the same exact quote, and one used words like empirically, congruent, and philosophically (words they couldn’t spell much less define) Mind you they are juniors, and they claimed they didn’t know copying and pasting were considereed plagiarism (yea, ok, I’ll believe that) but they didn’t even understand what was so wrong with it.  Now I’m going to show them… Thank you, Ms. Edwards for being so lazy and so smug that you used others’ work, passed it off as your own, and did it for so long.

As a current teacher of Freshmen composition, the rules are as follows:

1) It is plagiarism to use more than 3 words from another source without proper citation or attribution.

2) Those 3 words (or less) must be cited or attributed if they constitute the original author’s unique wording, word choice, or phrasing.  If the author uses such unique wording without attribution, then he or she has plagiarized.

3) It is DEFINITELY plagiarism to take large chunks of texts from another source, change a word or two, and then pass said work off as original.  There is a difference between the words “paraphrase” and “plagiarize” - a distinction that CE has willfully and willingly ignored.  And, really, even paraphrases require attribution.

In light of everything, I would say that her “research methods” are inexcusable.  I would automatically fail a student for doing what she has done.  It is only right and fair that she face public outrage and condemnation.  I’m not saying she should be stoned, but this is far more serious than a mere slap on the wrist warrants. 

To the other Joanna who posted above, you could drive a mack-truck through the teeth on the comb people are using on CE’s work!  If you can find the copied passages in less than 10 minutes on Google, then there is no “fine tooth combing” involved.  It’s as bad as my students who try to deny that they have plagiarized from an online source when they failed to change the color of the hyperlinks!

And, finally, for that letter—with its self-pitying drivel as well as its disgusting attempt to equate the same torment, degradation, and centuries of mistreatment that Native Peoples have suffered simply because they had the audacity to want to live on land someone else wanted to a situation she quite knowingly brought upon herself AND profited from—well, Ms. Edwards, if you actually did write that whiney tripe, then SHAME ON YOU!

Someone commented that the asked their 12 year old whether you could copy and paste something from the internet into a paper of your own.  The 12 year old knew the answer was “no” and it was called plagiarism.

On the other end of the spectrum, earlier I asked my 73 year old mother the same question.  (For the record, my mother did not graduate high school, she dropped out.)  Even still, she knew it was wrong, telling me you would go to jail for doing something like that.  I asked her what it was called, she answered “plagiarism”. 

So see?  Even a 73 year old high school dropout knows it is illegal.

Okay, I mean JESUS, now it’s Hiawatha?

SAVAGE OBSESSION
Page 284
The odors of the forest, the dew and damp meadow, and the curling smoke from the wigwams were left behind as Lorinda [...]

HIAWATHA by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow:
Lines 3-5 of the Introduction
With the odors of the forest,
With the dew and damp of meadows,
With the curling smoke of wigwams

Afraid so, Nora. 

I’d found a couple of passages that, in my opinion, crossed the line. This was the third one I found—and most damning—and therefore informed the SBs and Jane. 

There are a few oddly lyrical sections I still need to check so there may be more evidence to come. 

I really didn’t think it would get any more bizarre.  Obviously, I was wrong.

I found a shitload of stuff tonight (four hours in the library looking at the *actual* texts)—and all of it’s copyrighted.

She plagiarized from NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, people. National Geographic!!

What was she ON?

Anyway, I am actually commenting to say that I e-mailed one of the publishers (U of Penn Press) of one of the most egregious examples, and I’ll keep you posted if I hear anything.

Also? I found the source of the raccoon penis bone toothpick. Go me!

Hiawatha? Hiawatha?!

Words fail me.

I know what some are saying. It’s a pile-on, a witch hunt.

If any who are saying that are writers, I ask you to think. Think about this, and carefully.

Have respect for the work. The work of others, and your own. It isn’t right, and it sure isn’t writing, to lift and lift and lift, book after book, year after year and pass off the words and the work of others as your own.

Forget the personalities, the messengers and think about the message. Can we ask for respect for our craft from the readers, from the media, from anyone if we don’t respect it ourselves?

Snarkhunter:  what was the source of the “raccoon penic bone toothpick”?  I tried to track that one and never found it.

Swift Horse (2005) has at least five pages in a row of material plagiarized from a book published in 1993, and I’m only up to page 70. Have emailed the original author and need to lie down for a while.

Okay, my first reaction to Hiawatha was similar to Nora’s.

My second reaction, after a few moments, was, well, if Hiawatha was drummed into American people’s upbringing like, say, Banjo Patterson’s The Man From Snowy River* was drummed into my Australian upbringing, then maybe, maybe, you could imagine that somebody might have unconsciously used similar phrasing…

My third reaction? Nope. Highly unlikely. Especially in the light of all the hundreds of other instances.

Like many of you, I’m shaking my head in   sadness.

OMG! I was joking people!

The old bitch ripped off By the shores of Gitche Gumee…

Damn! Just DAMN!

Have you ever gotten the feeling something has gone beyond the capability to even snark anymore.

I think we just hit the Twilight Zone of idiocy beyond measure.

Oh, God. I thought I’d finally burned out on the plagiarism discussion. (And I’ve definitely burned out on the spelling discussion… part of my last post made no sense. Sorry.) But when I read that Hiawatha had been brought into it, I actually gasped. Loudly. I’m still able to be shocked, I guess.

This is gonna hit a front page NYT article in 5 4 3 2…

Kate, it’s from Penobscot Man, by Frank G. Speck. It’s the primary ethnographic study of the Penobscot, and the copyright is held by U Penn.

Tragically, that particular line wasn’t actually plagiarised…but I left it in the table anyway, b/c RACCOON PENIS BONE TOOTHPICK!

Even students in the 6th grade are taught how to cite works.

Her excuses are ridiculous and immature for someone who makes a living in the publishing world.

I’m not defending her, exactly, but I do think the Hiawatha thing *could* be accidental. Because a woman of her age would have had Longfellow drilled into her head in school, so it’s possible she internalized the quote, or even put the lines in there as a deliberate homage.

Doesn’t excuse any of the other examples, though.

OMG! She ripped off Hiawatha! Can this get anymore unbelievable? I’m with Victoria Dahl.  I thought I was over being shocked by all this.  I was wrong! Dear God! Has the woman no shame?

I think I already sent this to one of the TOPbitches, but evidently Cassie Edwards loves the Encylopaedia Britannica! I got these
examples easily, on line, by simply pulling up excerpts of one of her books
on Amazon, and then Googling it. Britannica tends to reprint the same
entries year after year unless there is new information to warrant an
update.

Encyclopedia Britannica: Wild dingoes, although bold and suspicious, can be
tamed, and those raised from puppies may become affectionate pets.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9030501

1991: Page 9, Touch the Wild Wind: Ashton had no trouble convincing Sasha
that wild dingoes, although bold and suspicious, could be tamed, and those
raised from puppies could become affectionate pets.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/050552211X/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-5461250-2806328#reader-link

Encylopedia Britannica Online: Its colour varies between yellowish and
reddish brown, often with white underparts, paws, and tail tip.
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9030501/dingo

Page 9, Touch the Wild Wind: Its color varied between yellowish and reddish
brown, with white underparts, feet, and tail tip.

Not only did she start doing this over 20 years ago, as someone else pointed out, but she liked to do it early on in her story. I mean, Page 9?

~I’m not defending her, exactly, but I do think the Hiawatha thing *could* be accidental. Because a woman of her age would have had Longfellow drilled into her head in school, so it’s possible she internalized the quote, or even put the lines in there as a deliberate homage.~

I don’t buy it. I might, maybe, without all the rest. But I don’t buy it.

If it’s drilled into you in school, you know where it comes from. And you know it’s not yours. If it’s homage, it’s very poorly done.

And so easy to change. First, use active voice:

Lucinda left behind the scents of forest and meadow, and the haze of the smoke spiraling from the wigwams.

Still not really yours, but at least you worked at it a little.

I’m not defending her, exactly, but I do think the Hiawatha thing *could* be accidental. Because a woman of her age would have had Longfellow drilled into her head in school, so it’s possible she internalized the quote, or even put the lines in there as a deliberate homage.

Snarkhunter: While I might buy the “deliberate homage” claim if there hadn’t been so much prior evidence, this Slate article that someone upthread linked to kind of ruins the statistical argument.  Also, a search for the terms [odors of forest dew damp meadow curling smoke wigwams] on Google Books gets only 6 results, 5 of which are from or referring to Longfellow.  The last, of course, is Cassie Edwards.

Snarkhunter—

I get what you’re saying about the familiarity = accidental plagiarism thing and, at first, that was my reaction when I stumbled across the sections in question. 

HOWEVER, this is not the only example of “borrowing” from HIAWATHA—it’s just the most damning.  There are also phrases/wording lifted from Section XIII: Blessing the Cornfields.

Here’s a test—recite a section from Hiawatha about magic circles and the spirit of sleep.  Can’t do it?  Yeah, me either. 

But Cassie Edwards sure can.

In my opinion, there is NO way this was an accident.

I could be wrong, though.  Please, God, let me be wrong.

I swear, this is actually better than keeping up with Britney Spears on TMZ!

That was a joke and meant to be funny.  Don’t want to offend anyone.

I know this is serious and I’m grateful that people have volunteered their time to research and find proof for these allegations against CE.

Okay, I don’t know if anyone posted on this, because it’s such a little quibble I didn’t read through all the posts, but here goes…

A lot of early posters commented on Edwards’s use of “alright.” Alright is a controversial spelling, but it is pretty widely accepted, especially in journalism and fiction.

Besides, there are about a million things to pick on in the letter other than a maybe questionable spelling variation.

For example, how she’s crazy. But that’s pretty much been said already (actually, the letter speaks for itself)

No, I’m sure you’re all right about “Hiawatha.” I periodically suffer from what I like to think of as Jane Bennet syndrome—I find it hard to believe the worst of anyone, even in situations like this, where the wrong is so blatant and so egregious. So I try to find some alleviating factor…even just one, tiny little nuance of hope that in one case she might not have been stealing…

::sigh:: Actually, this does feel very Britney-like—trainwrecky and just so very, very sad.

RE: Cassie Edwards loving the Encyclopedia Brittanica

I was just reading some of the reviews of CE’s books over at AR and came across this in the review (by Candy Tan!) for Desire’s Blossom:

“There are a couple of accurate facts in the book, such as the discovery and application of iodine, but then those passages sounded like they were lifted straight from the encyclopedia.”

Eight years and a massive Google database later, we’ll probably find out that they were.

HOWUWANNA by Pigfellow

By the scores of Catch-me Sue-you,
By the sinning Native-American-Writer,
Stood the excuse of NoComment,
In it for the money, NoComment.
Dark behind it rose the bitches,
Rose the black and gloomy evidence,
Rose the victims with copyrights upon them;
Right before they sue the writer,
Sue the stupid and plagiarist writer,
Sue the sinning Native-American-Writer.

Okay, I don’t know if anyone posted on this, because it’s such a little quibble I didn’t read through all the posts, but here goes… A lot of early posters commented on Edwards’s use of “alright.” Alright is a controversial spelling, but it is pretty widely accepted, especially in journalism and fiction.

Noooooo, Alice! Don’t go there! *g* (See previous posts.) Seriously, it was fun to touch on the subject.

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I copied weak and weary
Prose from many a quaint and curious volume of (I hope) forgotten lore,
While I copied, neatly pasting, suddenly there came lambasting
As of someone Googling, Googling my stolen prose galore.
‘No comment,’ I muttered, ‘those Bitches are on Ignore -
Only this, and nothing more.’

Ah, distinctly I remember that it was post-December,
And each seperate dying Savage brought its own fresh war.
Eagerly I wished the morrow - vainly I had sought to borrow
Others books, for to my sorrow, my own prose I abhor -
For the rare and radiant wordage that angels would adore -
I have not; so I’ll take yours.

This is all my own work, I swear.  If it sounds like

Edgar Allen Poe’s The Raven

anyone else’s, they’re just jealous and demeaning to my Irish/Norwegian/mutt heritage.

As noted, would anyone of either Native American heritage OR someone who apparently studied their customs and history in such depth refer to them as Indians? (And I only accept ‘Native Americans’ because it’s not always easy to think of a widely recognised alternative for the collective.) And then the switching from one to the other ... and not even naming her own claimed ancestors consistently from their own tribe ... Interesting.