Smart Bitches, Trashy Books

For an older audience, you might try LaVerle Spencer, specifically one of my favorite romances ever, “Years,” which takes place in the early 1900s in North Dakota. My mother loved that book and she’s not a romance reader. It’s about a younger girl falling in love with an older man, but also very much about the time and place in which it’s set. I can still cry reading that book though I’ve read it many, many times before.

I agree that The Time Travel’s Wife contains a powerful story between two people (it’s a must-read book really) but it doesn’t fit into the romance genre. 

*will not say more in an attempt to not reveal anything*

My all time favorite Georgette Heyer and the first romance novel I ever read was The Masqueraders.

http://www.amazon.com/Masqueraders-Harlequin-Single-Title/dp/0373836066/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201623260&sr=8-1

We in that age group really don’t need to be protected/pandered to. We’re adults. Really. We’re no different from females younger than we are. Wait. Yes we are. We’ve got lots of experience, and most probably don’t go for the helpless female plots.

Ditto. Don’t pander to your students just because they’re an older age-set! We aren’t all ancient geezers, some of us listen to Gwen Stefani and Kanye West (and Foo Fighters and Matchbox 20…and on and on).

I do agree that older female readers are less likely to be tolerant of “poor little me” heroines. Or maybe that’s just me. I realized that unlike in the old days when I empathized with those whining little girls who needed their man to help them get through life, these days I just want to smack her silly and tell her to grow the hell up.

But for Lord’s sake don’t think that your older age set will somehow be horrified or shocked at the sex scenes. They’ve probably got more experience than you do!

(though I do confess to a bit of bewilderment about the whole BDSM scene, I just don’t find it terribly hawt that a guy has to carry butt plugs and ball gags around to service his wimmen with in order to feel like a real man…)

submit word: woman44. Close, actually woman47!

WOw, tough order especialy for still in print. One thing though, I am a 45 year old church lady and I would PREFER moderate steam. I would suggest a Jayne Ann Krentz I haven’t read the new one yet (just came out today) but she could cover several mini genres with her Arcane novels.

My picks would be…

Morning Glory ~ LaVyrle Spencer
Bet Me ~ Jenny Crusie
The Villa ~ Nora Roberts
Heaven, Texas ~ SEP

It’s not really a romance, in that it’s shelved as mystery, but Gaudy Night has more than enough romantic elements to make for a kick-ass contribution.

Bonus for Most Romantic Proposal Of All Time.

It’d be a shame to take a class and miss Nora and Jenny Crusie.  Lots of good ones to choose from and many have been mentioned.

Nora writes great guys, but her sisters books are awesome too.

And, for Crusie, Welcome to Temptation is my favorite, Bet Me is hilarious, and I personally liked Faking It.

Randi - I second Outlander but the Neville books read very dated and heavy, love them tho i do.

If you do a bit of genre mixed with romance, Sunshine is wonderful but I would also recommend Barbara Michaels. Black Rainbow is an almost parody of Jane Eyre - it’s awesome.

For straight romance, I’ve always liked Nora Roberts and Jennifer Crusie and Amanda Quick. Karen Moning can also be a fun read, esp the ones near the end of the Highlander series.

Anything by Dorothy Garlock. Real heartland stuff.

Also, what about Jane Eyre? It’s such a classic of a woman’s slowly maturing self-confidence as well as her fascination with a man who has a secret.

Or Jennifer Weiner’s Good in Bed, which is technically chick lit, but it’s romance.

Personally, I’d love to hear their take on something on the hip and modern side of romance.  Something geared totally outside their age group and maybe something urban.  Gena Showalter, perhaps?  Catch a Mate? Julie Kenner?  Like the Manolo Matrix?  Ought to stir things up and make for some really interesting conversations in class.

I have a mid 60ish friend I’ve been slowly introducing romances too (not something she’s read before). Her favorites so far are Nora Robert’s “Montana Sky” and “The Villa”.

Thre’s lots of talk about Crusie and Nora, but I didn’t see one mention of my two favorites from them:

Fast Women - quintessential Crusie and fanstastic for any age.

Carnal Innocence - has my all time favorite hero - Tucker Longstreet, yummo! - and doesn’t pull any punches on the love story or the serial murderer running amuck.

Most important for me is that both books treat the reader as adults who can handle complex situations.

Oooh, thanks for the link Sarah, I will check them out.

Oh, and a resounding YES to Jenny Crusie from me as well—although my favorite is Fast Women, which no one has yet mentioned. First one I read of hers and it totally hooked me!

Lisa Wingate
http://www.lisawingate.com/

Particularly her Texas Hill Country series. Makes me nostalgic and romantic at one time.

No erotica?  My first RN I picked up from next to my grandma’s chair.  I liked to pretend she didnt understand the naughty bits, but the woman did have five kids…

Heyer has been covered, but is essential because (a) she provides the link with Austen and (b) Heyer’s Regencies unconsciously set the parameters for a whole genre. She is the main reason why we associate Regency historicals with elegant social comedy rather than tales of political intrigue, for example. Heyer is also well worth studying for her rigorous approach to historical research (well represented in this generation by Loretta Chase and JAK in her Amanda Quick persona).  I would use Venetia, The Grand Sophy, Cotillion, The Nonesuch or Black Sheep.

For romantic suspense, another classic: Mary Stewart.  For example, This Rough Magic.  Lots of things to discuss there, including the fashion for setting adventures in ‘exotic’ locations.  Also great stories for illustrating heroines who grow in strength and competence throughout the book.  And some VERY interesting socio-sexual material, particularly the rapid courtships, typical of the 1950s when attitudes to pre-marital sex in the middle classes was dramatically different from today’s norms.

Definitely Linda Howard, but not, please not, any of her recent sorry crap with the ghastly, unbearable Blair creature.  Dream Man and Now you see her are both terrific romances and adventures, and paranormal with it, in a way that can be accepted by people who jib at SF/fantasy stuff.

A Nora Roberts, certainly, and also almost anything later than 1983 by Jayne Ann Krentz, under any of her names - sympathetic characters, a light touch, good dialogue, clever wit, and convincing sex.

:)

I’d like to recommend one of my favourite Heyers, Sprig Muslin.  Wonderful, mature heroine and hero, and it’s been reissued in the last few years.

Sorry for typo in previous post.

Crusie:  I would endorse the suggestion of Fast Women, but actually I think one of the most interesting ones for doing a formal study of her work is Crazy for You.  As an object-lesson how to write an enjoyable, funny and ultimately pleasurable novel about an extremely dark subject - stalking - it is amazing.

Incidentally, I am in my late 60s myself.  But my perceptions will not be altogether like those of the intended students, because of the different nationality and culture.

Nora Roberts and Jenny Crusie are a must for sure. I’d vote for Agnes and the Hitman because of the action and the way it’s written as a collaboration.

If you’re going for Southern romances, I see no one has mentioned Gone With the Wind. I realize this is a lengthy read but you could still cover major scenes through excerpts if you wanted and encourgage the ladies to continue on their own. It’s still one of my favorite reads.

If it wasn’t out of print, I’d recommend The Book Of Eve by Constance Beresford-Howe: The day her first OAP cheque arrives, the heroine impulsively runs away from her stifling life and finds herself as a sort of geriatric hippie. (It was first published in 1973). I’d also recommend Grin And Bear It by Leslie LaFoy. (The cover shows a smiling bear with a napkin around his neck - because he is about to eat the heroine’s unfaithful husband ;-D.)  However, neither of those is a romance, strictly speaking. For me, the Big Three Romance Novelists are( in alphabetical order) Mary Balogh, Jo Beverley and Mary Jo Putney.  Almost anything by one of them is worth reading.  My personal favorites are Beverleys’s An Unwilling Bride, Putney’s Silk and Shadows and Balogh’s A Summer To Remember.

I agree that Georgette is wonderful, but the ladies of that certain age probably read her back in the day.  Here’s another older historical, my mom’s personal favorite:  Elswyth Thane’s Dawn’s Early Light.
A Williamsburg romance, recently reissued. 
Just don’t tell my mom that I consider her to be “of a certain age.”

But for Lord’s sake don’t think that your older age set will somehow be horrified or shocked at the sex scenes. They’ve probably got more experience than you do!

Not all of them would be horrified, as a rule, of course.  My grandma?  If I was recommending something to her, I wouldn’t hesitate for a second based on a sexuality level.  My best friend’s mom?  My friend once accidentally sent her a Joey W. Hill book.  Hooo-boy.  I thinkk she’s still praying for our souls.  As a result,  I can’t help but think she’s right to consider dialing it back a bit.  Go for a middle range.  Maybe doesn’t have to be all inspirational-level sensuality but I’d avoid the flat out erotica too.

Anyway, my two cents for a recommendation - Loretta Chase, Lord of Scoundrels.  I started it last Saturday, based mainly on how many times it pops up around here, and have since read it 2.5 times.  I’d definitely nominate Sebastian as the asshole alpha done right.

“Shards of Honour” or “A Civil Campaign” for a look at books that have a strong romance plot but are marketed as sf. I think ACC could be particularly good for tying into the history of the romance genre (because of that explicit acknowledgement of influences in the dedication), but SoH is more accessible to people not already familiar with Bujold’s work.

And yes, I was also thinking of “Gaudy Night” and “Crocodile on the Sandbank” on the mystery side. :-)

Granted, at 55 (in just over a month), I’m at the lower end of that certain age, but you young’uns will figure it out in time. Sexuality doesn’t end with menopause.

Nora Roberts is an absolute must. I would suggest

Remember When

- a Nora/J.D. Robb “collaboration”. The first half is set in the present (written by Nora) with the second half set in the future with Eve Dallas (obviously written by Robb).

LaVyrle Spencer is popular with many of the older ladies though I’ve never been that thrilled with her books. For a vampire entry, I would suggest the Sookie Stackhouse books by Charlaine Harris. They had me snorfling coffee. Georgette Heyer should be a given as she pretty much let the way.

Oh - and silly heroines are good fodder for discussion as most of us “oldies” would like to smack them up side the head with a clueX4.

This sounds like a fun class. Wish I could take it.

I think that you definitely have to have something by LaVyrle Spencer.  I vote for Morning Glory.  I don’t care what age you are, it is such a beautiful love story that anyone would love it.  Plus, there is absolutely nothing in the the book that would embarass you to talk about.

“..there is absolutely nothing in the the book that would embarass you to talk about.”

I don’t think that Dr.Frantz is all that easily embarrassed.  Just a feeling I have…

I’d recommend The Outsider by Penelope Williamson which is a story about an Amish widow who rescues a gunslinger.  It’s a wonderful story.  And there’s a great movie version available.

I’d also include a series romance.  Maybe let each class member choose their own.  There is lots of room for discussion about how different lines have different sensuality levels, how the topics range from fluff to serious, etc.

old79:  Ummmm, not yet.

StacieH4!  OMG!  I too LOVE “Heaven, Texas”!  Bobbie Tom Denton is actually one of my five… 

But for other ideas—what about Robyn Carr’s “House on Olive Street”?  I particularly like that it’s not just romance, but also the relationships of the women.  That might appeal to your students.

Now, if you really want a twist, I also enjoy Dee Henderson, which is a 180 from what I usually read. And they’ve reprinted her first, “Danger in the Shadows”, which hooked me on her with a great story.

Something vampire maybe.  The whole thing about the mystique of the vampire and what it symbolizes, i.e. permission for women to be “taken” without all the vamp/virgin baggage.

That sounds like a great idea.  I have no ideas what books would qualify for a class on romance, though.

How about Emily Lorring?  My mom has stacks of her books that I used to read when I was kid—some of the earliest ones were published in the late ‘20s.  My favorite one was Here Comes the Sun! (and yes, I’m sure the exclamation was absolutely necessary), about a dirty politician and a nasty politician.  She dealt with a lot of contemporary political and women’s rights issues in her books which I didn’t really get as a kid—like in one, a WWII Audrey Murphy-type vet who everyone thought was dead gets plastic surgery and returns to his home town, but no one recognizes him.  That was another fun one.

Oh yeah, here’s another vote for The Outsider, which would give you a Western.  I would also recommend the only Inspirational I’ve ever enjoyed, Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers.  It too is a Western, the Biblical story of Hosea and his wife retold.

Let me join the crowd of echoes and suggest Jenny Crusie, either “Welcome to Temptation” or “Manhunting”, my two favorites by her. 

I’d also suggest Julie Garwood for historical romance.  “The Secret” and “Lyon’s Lady” are 2 of her best, IMHO.

If you’d like a Heyer-type, try Clare Darcy.  Her book “Lydia” is my favorite, about an American family storming London in an effort to save themselves from poverty.  Lydia herself is a great character, and the hero Northover reminds me of Dameral from Heyer’s “Venetia”.

I’d also recommend Mary Jo Putney’s “The Rake and the Reformer” (get the original and not the reprint The Rake), Stephanie Laurens’ “Devil’s Bride” (the first Cynster book) and Loretta Chase’s “Mr. Wonderful”.  As if there weren’t enough suggestions here for you, Dr. Frantz.  :>

I’d say anything by Josie Litton. Her first trilogy was lovely (Dream of Me, Believe in Me and Come Back To Me) and centered around three woman with extrodinary powers.

She’s historical (Viking age) and paranormal rolled into one and is wonderful.

Also, anything by Caridad Pineiro. She writes an incredibe vampire series (The Calling) which has several books out.

Her new novel The South Beach Chicas Catch Their Man is out and is a wonderful contemporary romance about single older woman finding the men of their dreams.

It’s tough to know what to suggest, as there are so many that should be read in pairs.  For example, Sunshine is one of my all-time favorite vampire books, BUT…should be read in a class with a JR Ward or Hamilton, to really get familiar with what makes it so different.

Also, reading a Laura Kinsale novel (such as Shadowheart with the hints of BDSM) and comparing it to a more mainstream BDSM-themed book, such as Wicked Ties by Shayla Black.  Or one of her other historicals, such as Flowers from the Storm, and comparing it to another wounded-hero story, such as ALmost heaven, by Judith McNaught.

But for my own list I would love to see in a class:
Sunshine, Robin McKinley
Shadowheart, Laura Kinsale
Scandalous Lovers, Robin Schone
Tell Me No Lies, Elizabeth Lowell
Jane’s Warlord, Angela Knight
and as a series:
Kushiel’s Dart/Chosen/Avatar, Jaqueline Carey, which is both fantasy and romance, I guess.

BTW…how do I find out about classes like this in my town?

How about Nora’s Midnight Bayou? that’s a Nora novel, mild paranormal aspect (mild ghost story aspect) and takes place in New Orleans, so might appeal to Southern Ladies of a Certain Age?

I’m stunned there’s no Johanna Lindsey recommended. (Or if it was I’m sorry. I must have missed it) I had the play Streetcar Named Desire pop into my head, although not really a romance, and yet…I must be having a yearning for 50’s Brando.  Or High Fidelity, Nick Hornby? Lord of Scoundrels, Loretta Chase? Perfect, Judith McNaught?

Stewie,

You’re absolutely correct about pairing Sunshine with a LKH book.  All your pairings are intersting.  Somebody do a class of this stuff online and let me know when to sign up.

Oh, and here’s another recommendation:  Jane Austen in Boca by Paula Marantz Cohen.  It’s a lovely homage to Miss Austen, set in a retirement community in South Florida.  You’ll recognize characters from P&P, and it’s witty and fun.

I always loved Kate Chopin’s The Awakening.  A short story but does it pack a punch!!

My 89-year-old grandmother (game though she was) watched most of “The Full Monty” while muttering “Oh my goodness” and “For Heaven’s sake” while keeping one palm fixed to her cheek in semi-horror. I can only imagine how she’d respond to a super-hot romance or erotica book. But she’d never sign up for the class in the first place. I say don’t hold back due to steaminess.

For sheer fun pick something by Katie Macalister. Maybe not the Aisling Grey books, but one of her stand-alone novels.

Garwood’s “The Secret” is my fave of her books. And I second (or third?) Nora’s Garden triology.

If you pick a Johanna Lindsey, my fave is Regina and Nicholas’s story. But any of the early Mallory books are good.

P.C. Cast’s Goddesses series is good—paranormal/fantasy; fresh takes on Greek myths with modern-day characters.

I’m snickering over the suggestion of Jane’s Warlord. I thought it was a fun read, but man-o-man, Ms. Knight writes some steamy stuff.

What a fun class. Good luck!

I don’t know if she was mentioned - but what about Victoria Holt - I have a friend who is late 60’s and she always talks about Victoria Holt and how she loved those books.

I suggest:

The Shadow and the Star by Laura Kinsale (Fabulous book and I believe Leda was inspired by Kinsale’s Southern aunts)

Black Silk by Judith Ivory (another fabulous, fabulous book)

Wild at Heart by Patricia Gaffney (Also fabulous!  I’d recommend my favorite, Gaffney’s To Have and to Hold, but I think it might fall into the “embarassing to talk about” category for some).

I hate to say it, too, but “Ladies of a Certain Age” taking a romance class have lived through enough truly awful “Romance” bodice-rippers that I’m sure a little (or a lot of) steam isn’t going to make them run, screaming, into the night.

When I think of some of the absolute garbage psudo-rape, buttsecks loving, ALPHA SHEIK crap! (exclamation definitely needed) my grandmother had, the thought alone that there’s anything out there she would run away from, screaming, is laughable.

Jo Beverley is my favorite author, so I’d recommend anything she’s written.

PS I’m of that certain age.

Oh, and Shaunee,

      Coo, coo!

But srsly, we need a book club or something for this!  I’m gonna talk to my cousin…she’s teaching English Lit right now…maybe we can get something set up.  Anyone else interested?

spamword: blue57…hut, hut!!

“Too embarassing to talk about”?
Lord, you children should have heard my grandmother and her sisters and sisters-in-law, all born in the 1880s, when they got together!
That said, and being personally very fond of historical romances, I’d suggest anything by Loretta Chase, Eloisa James, Lis Carlyle, Lisa Kleypas, Jo Goodman.
Bet Me is definitely my facorite Crusie.

I suggest SEP’s Match Me If You Can - That was such a funny, romantic book!

I want to second (third, fourth, maybe fifth!) Nora Roberts’ _The Villa_.  It has terrific characters in several age groups, all of them dealing with romance and family issues as well as the suspense angle.  It’s still my favorite Nora single.

Lots of other great suggestions here, of course—James, Crusie, Chase—I would have a hard time choosing if I were lucky enough to be teaching the class.

What a great idea for a class.

I suppose any study of Romance must include Austen, (possibly Bronte), Heyer and then Roberts and Crusie. Also, voted no1 for the nth time in the AAR poll: Lord of Scoundrels is surely a must.

A book I would love to discuss in minute detail - Black Silk by Ivory. My favourite Heyer - I second Cotillion for the laughs and the subversion of popular romantic themes.

What about Frances Hodgson Burnett for a mid-point between Austen and Heyer? The Making of a Marchioness is a very tongue-in-cheek romance. Burnett wanted to write about a Cinderella ‘with big feet,’ a romance with wildly unromantic characters. The heroine, Emily Fox-Seton is in her thirties and extremely nice, and the Marquess in question is ‘‘past middle life and plain.’ This might appeal to readers who find nubile young things a little tiresome and immature.

It’s a very good story at the ending is quite perfect. And (she said, shamelessly) I blogged about it recently

Some seconds on REMEMBER WHEN for the obligatory Nora book, as it will give them a feel for the contemporary and the JD Robb books in case they want to explore further; and thumbs way up for JANE AUSTEN IN BOCA (unfair of Darlene to beat me to that as I recommended it to her :-> ) For SEP, I’d go with AIN’T SHE SWEET, the most Southern of her books and with a slightly older heroine, although HEAVEN, TEXAS is a good choice too.

Someone else remembered Jeanne Ray but I think the book from her that would be great is JULIE AND ROMEO, a funny take on ROMEO AND JULIET with feuding florist families, much older protagonists and their obstinate kids. Wish that the Regency AUTUMN ROSE by Marjorie Farrell wasn’t out of print as that features an older heroine.

I third, or fourth A Civil Campaign by Bujold. Wonderful character development in both heroine and hero, subplots galore, and the undying image of Armsman Roic, dressed only in boots, briefs and holster.
.....
sigh
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...um, sorry, go a little distracted there.

I don’t *get* Shards of Honor/Barrayar on the same level. I guess my heart belongs to the hypermanic little git.

Must admit to being surprised at the recommendations for Bujold’s A CIVIL CAMPAIGN. I don’t think it’s really accessible if you haven’t read the previous books and frankly, I found myself getting slightly annoyed at some of the more farcical scenes.

Regarding SHARDS OF HONOR, I thought it was an examination the price you sometimes have to pay for relationships and how people make hard choices in life in general. It’s still my favorite of the whole series (with KOMARR a close second).

Although not specifically romance, the Red Hat books by Haywood Smith are wonderful.  I’m not sure I can consider myself “of a certain age” yet, being as how I only hit 45 this year but I agree with everyone else who says not to hold back. 

FWIW, Nora was my father’s favorite author right up until his death two years ago in his 70s.  And I know my mother doesn’t shy away from sex in her books!

We read Night Gardening by E. L. Swann in my book group about a year and a half ago. It would be tough to call it an HEA, but it’s definitely got a romance, and a lot of sex in it. It generated some very interesting conversations in my book group.

Nth recommendation for Bet Me. I was a huge fan of Mary Stewart’s romantic suspense growing up, but never could get into Burnett.

Katie Fforde is always good for a somewhat high-brow chicklit/romance.

How about Under the Tuscan Sun or has everyone seeing the movie ruin the book?

If you decide not to do a Heyer perhaps you could use Jo Goodman’s If His Kiss is Wicked. I loved the way the main characters seduced each other with words.

A bow in JaniceG’s direction, way down in the land of Oz.  She did indeed insist I read Jane Austen in Boca, and I was darn glad of it.

If I could put a vote in for a different set of Georgette Heyers: it has to be a Regency (even though Masqueraders is my personal favourite, it has a Georgian setting) and I think Lady of Quality, which again has an older heroine, or Frederica, which is a hoot, or The Foundling are great introductions to her work.

Nora Roberts, how about Montana Sky, which also has Cowboys, a massive subgenre which nobody seems to have mentioned so far, or any of the early MacGregor books, which were so groundbreaking when they came out on Silhouette way back when.

Elizabeth Lowell’s Diamond Tiger is a good suspenseful contemporary, or Linda Howard’s Dream Man has a paranormal side to it.

I also think that ladies in the South may not particularly want to read stuff set in the South - they’re very likely to spot anything remotely off in the details and be annoyed.

My spaminator clearly94 (clearly slightly above the target age of this course)

Teachery opinion, here:

I love the rec of Cruisie—I’d go for “Fast Women,” “Crazy For You” or “Bet Me.” You can discuss the perception of what is a romance heroine and/or appropriate material for a romance novel with the changing of cultural perceptions of women as a gender. Plus, good characterization of main characters, interesting secondary characters, and all that other writery stuff like plot building, setting, blah blah Englishteachercakes.

“Outlander,” which I love, is too long for a six week multiple book con-ed class.

“Sunshine” is not a good exemplar of the romance genre. It’s a freakin’ awesome books, but I think it’s wrong for the audience. Robin McKinley’s webpage has one of the funniest grumpy writer FAQ’s I have ever read, though, IMHO.

Roberts, yes. My personal teaching and student preference would be to do a stand-alone, though.

There are so many great authors and so many subgenres that I don’t envy you. (Well, yeah, I kinda do, but high school English class subject choice is a leetle easier). What about doing a bibliography according to subgenre? That way you could include all the great suggestions you don’t choose, and help students pick things to read in the future according to preferences.

I, being evil, would also schedule a class for individual books: I’d do something like ask students to choose a book from the biblio in an area they think they would NOT think would be to their taste, and give a mini-overview on what surprised them, in a pro-con way, and then have a roundtable discussion based on the overviews.

I think it sounds like a lot of fun!

(My personal stand alone pick for the Roberts would be “Midnight Bayou.” I like the main characters a lot, you have a Southern semi-Gothic setting, paranormal plot twist, reincarnation, and a virile man who is, for all intents and purposes, kinda…pregnant. So much to discuss!)

*I usually lurk, but I cannot resist a romance convo with a pedagogical twist*

Oh, oh, what about The Princess Bride?

And pick a pirate story—sexy swashbucklers and high seas adventure—what could be better??

spamword: finally81. I’m not but how appropriate . . .

I second whoever said PC Cast - Goddess of Spring is so beautiful - with a slightly older heroine and Hades for a hero, what’s not to love?

My mum’s 75, and she doesn’t like to read too many explicit sex scenes. (I’m 45, and neither do I. Bores me silly.) However, that said, she’s a grown woman who’s read D.H.Lawrence et al - she wouldn’t fall apart at the sight of a fictional prick.

As for recommendations, my favourite book of the moment is The Charioteeer by Mary Renault. It was written in the 50s, so nothing really explicit in the text, and while it’s not strictly speaking genre romance, it is a love story with a HEA. It’s m/m - which might broaden the scope of the course.

I’d suggest Venetia for the Heyer, because it’s the classic Regency - rakish hero, beautiful heroine - and Madam, Will You Talk? by Stewart, because I love it the best.
I’ve just finished reading Flowers from the Storm by Kinsale, and loved it, so I’ll add that - and it might be nice to include a category as well, just to show the range there is in romance. You could always use Roberts or Crusie there - show how good series books can be. 

Be nice to make up a further reading list, because there are some great suggestions.

And after all these suggestions, I would really like to know what you picked in the end. - Just because

Spam word:call49 - not yet but now in the right decade

Sorry for the multiple posts but I just thought of another one that might be very good for this audience: THE SHELL SEEKERS by Rosamunde Pilcher (SEPTEMBER by the same author would be good too). Not classic romances, I know, but the romantic element is there.

Renault’s The Charioteer is a wonderful novel, and has been a favourite of mine for about 40 years, but I just don’t see it fitting into a course like this.  Not because of the fact that the lovers are men, but because there is just so much social and cultural background that needs to be understood to appreciate it fully. It would be too easy to get bogged down in trying to explain the culture of wartime England, particularly the class issues, which are crucial to the story. 
If one wanted to include a classic gay romance, I think that the students in this case might be able to relate better to Jane Rule’s seminal Lesbian romance, Desert of the Heart, which is also a very fine novel.

What’s a “certain age”??  That’s really bothering me.  I’m 54, I’ve been reading romance for 40 years, am I a “certain age”????

verification “minutes55” - no about 7 months to 55, but close.

What about a Mary Stewart?  They are all back in print.  I recommend THIS ROUGH MAGIC.

For a futuristic, a JAK/Jayne Castle:  SHIELD’S LADY or AMARYLLIS.

My favorite Carla Kelly is MISS MILTON SPEAKS HER MIND.

Nora’s THE VILLA and the In the Garden trilogy both feature three generations of heroines, all of whom find love.  And her magnolia-drenched CARNAL INNOCENCE is one of my all-time favorites.

For Crusie, I prefer BET ME.  And the Crusie-Mayer collaboration AGNES AND THE HITMAN.

And Susan Elizabeth Phillips’s AIN’T SHE SWEET? for a twist—the heroine is the (somewhat reformed) Evil Bitch.

Sarah, Sharon Shinn’s JENNA STARBORN is “JANE EYRE in outer space”; however, from what I’ve heard, it’s not all that good.

Colleen, our professional archaeologist the Silver Tigress is very thumbs-down on BIRTHRIGHT as being poorly researched.  And I agree about CROCODILE ON THE SANDBANK—I adore it.

I’d also recommend GAMES OF COMMAND, FINDERS KEEPERS, and THE ACCIDENTAL GODDESS by Linnea Sinclair.  Awesome sentient felines in the first one.  They are published as Bantam Spectra SF, but plenty of hot romance.  My favorite SF romance blend is Lee and Miller’s Liaden Universe series; but to get the full rounded storyline you’d have to read five books.  Not that that would be a hardship, but I doubt that “rusty ladies” would be into space opera.

Snarkhunter, can you really include GAUDY NIGHT without including BUSMAN’S HONEYMOON?

I don’t rate THE MASQUERADERS that highly; besides, it’s 18th century rather than Regency.  I’d suggest ARABELLA (the first one I ever read) or THE GRAND SOPHY for the Heyer.

I very much resent the Tigress for saying she is in her late 60s, since we are the same age at the moment.  That’s MID 60s, you mangy feline!  Just because we are recommending the same books doesn’t mean I’m going to channel EVERYTHING you say!

I understand that there is a very successful writer of historical romances called Cassie Edwards.  Why is no one recommending her?

miss48—Yes, I do, especially now that I’m 66.

I would suggest Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. One of the classics of gothic romance and several of plot devices from of it have become iconic in the romance genre including the plain jane heroine, the dashing, sophisticated hero who sweeps her off her feet. The theme of jealosy, revenge and redemption.

I also love Julia Quinn and think that a lot of older ladies would identify with the big Bridgerton family and the warmth of the family.

Knight in Shinning Armor by Jude Deveraux would also on my list.

I also think that you would have to include Nora Roberts because she has written so much in so many different sub-genres.

My vote is for Morning Glory by LaVyrle Spencer (third recommendation!)

It’s perfect for older, southern women.  It’s set in the time right before WWII (and during it) and it’s in set in Georgia.  AND IT’S A GREAT FREAKIN’ BOOK!

Holy moly!  My word is south25.  How appropriate.

Just have to delurk to suggest No Humans Involved from Kelly Armstrong. One of the Women of the Otherworld series, and a great paranormal read. Plus the heroine is more the age range we’re talking about, I think.

Late to the party, but here’s my 2 cents:

I do think you could cover some of the sub-genres and crossover genres via excerpts. This would also allow you to tailor what you cover once you see how the class members react to the earlier longer selections. On the other hand, I love the idea of each student choosing something from a booklist and then discussing the books in class. That way you could cover a lot of the breadth of the genre in one focused discussion.

If you do decide to cover some Romantica (I agree you should probably stay away from erotica, although Emma Holly’s books are very good at incorporating the HEA), I vote for Julia Ross or Pam Rosenthal. Paranormals are big right now, but so is romantic suspense. Suzanne Brockmann gets my vote in this category. And it might be fun to look at how authors jump categories.

It’s too bad the class is only an hour and a half long. With the PBS airing the Complete Jane Austen right now, showing one of those in class would be an interesting way of looking at the roots of the genre. But they run an hour and a half long, so no discussion time.

As for other topics, how about the evolution of the Romance Hero and Heroine from 1930 to the present? I saw something similar discussed via the Bond films recently, and it was really interesting and fun to watch.

I’m coming to this late, but I would second Years by LaVyrle Spencer.  I loved that book!  (I guess I’m at the low end of “a certain age” at almost 42?) 

I was going to suggest the first of the Southern Vampire series by Charlaine Harris, Dead Until Dark, but someone else beat me to it, so I’ll just have to second it.  Funny and fun, with a definite Southern twang.

As for Nora Roberts, I LOVE her book, Angels Fall.  I told my husband when I was reading, “This is one of the best books I’ve ever read.”  That said, if you used Remember When, you could compare the two parts and compare and contrast the writing styles and stylistic choices from when she’s writing as Nora and when she’s writing as J.D. Robb

I also second (or third) Tell Me No Lies by Elizabeth Lowell.  Her Donovan series is also great (though she either never wrote about the last few siblings or I missed them somewhere because there’s only 3 books in the series so far that I know of).

make52—I probably could make 52 suggestions, but I’ll leave it 4 or so, since it’s late and I should have gone to bed an hour ago.

What about doing a bibliography according to subgenre? That way you could include all the great suggestions you don’t choose, and help students pick things to read in the future according to preferences.

Excellent suggestion!!

SEP - she’s such a great example of romantic comedy. My fav is Lady Be Good, set in Texas. The drug store scene made me laugh until I cried. Anyone who knows me in person knows that’s saying something :)

I second the earlier recommendation of Carla Kelly - it gives you a shorter-length book for planning flexibility and several of them take on real issues.

What about Kathleen Gilles Seidel? “Again” is set on the set (ha!) of a Regency soap opera and is fascinating for behind the scenes as well as for a fun plot. And several of her older ones would resonate as contemps for an older generation -  Maybe Next Time is about sixties musicians, and After All These Years is about a Vietnam vet.

The only downside is that these are not always easy to find. You’d have to order online.

I add my voice to the chorus recommending Mary Stewart - the heroines will mostly have been born at the same time as the class members, roughly, so they should empathise. I think one of my favourites is “The Ivy Tree”, which is set in the North of England - not particularly exotic to me, but it will be to them ; )
And I’m 42, and I tend to skip or gloss over sex scenes, too. I am totally unshockable - I’ve read LKH and Anne Rice’s Beauty trilogy, for goodness sake - but I have never seen the point of them. In my eyes, sex is all well and good as a participant, but not so much as a spectator, and that’s how I feel when I read even a well written sex scene. It’s one reason I like the older romances so much. I was reading a Nora Roberts the other day and realised we’d got to about page 250 before they got into bed, and really that was fine because at least I knew the characters well by then. But I don’t see myself ever reading much more erotica, because - why? I would love to know what those who like it get out of it; is it female porn, serving the same physical purpose as male porn, or does it appeal to some mental erotic circuit that I am underutilising? Maybe the SBs could address this some time, if they haven’t already?!

I have to say that I am a bit surprised by the suggestion of du Maurier’s Rebecca, which I don’t think of as a romance, and the heroine of which is a total, dreary pain.  The hero is pretty repellent too, as far as I remember - only read it once, probably more than 50 years ago, but it never struck me as a ‘romantic’ book in any sense of the word.  If one wants the Gothic element because it illustrates one line of descent of the modern romance, going back to the Horrid Novels, then any Mary Stewart romantic suspense would be far better, with heroines who are centre-stage (and first-person - useful for discussing the pros and cons of first-person POV, which is seldom used these days in the romance genre, and is very difficult to write well), three-dimensional and admirably competent and determined.

Tal, I don’t think one needs to read Busman’s Honeymoon as a follow-up to Gaudy Night, any more than one needs to read the earlier books to get the impact of the resolution of the Wimsey/Vane relationship.  The huge, ongoing element of conflict is laid out clearly in Gaudy Night, so that one needs no prior knowledge of the couple, and is debated in all sorts of ways.  And it is at the end that the HEA is guaranteed.

No one has mentioned “Lady Gallant” by Suzanne Robinson, which, IMHO, is the best romance ever written (but I have about 50 second-best favorites).  In fact, I don’t think you can claim to actually be a reader of romance until you’ve read this book.

Wow, bitches, this is so great.  I’m getting ideas in my head about “Romance in the South.”  There’s a strong RWA chapter in Raleigh, so I think it’ll be easy to do.  So, probably one of Nora’s set in the south (I like Midnight Bayou as well, and I love the paranormal elements), as well as Virginia Kantra’s Home Before Midnight (set in NC by a NC writer), and maybe Claudia Danes (NC writer) for historical.  And then I do like the idea of having them all pick a category and report back.

Thanks so much for helping me!  I’ll be reporting about this class and the one I’m teaching now at Fayetteville State U (an HBCU) over on Teach Me Tonight.

Sarah and other Heyer fans-

I found out that the publisher Sourcebooks has started reissuing Heyer’s books as nice, easy to read trade paperbacks.  As of right now, they only have _Cotillion_ and _An Infamous Army_ ready to go.
http://www.sourcebooks.com/cart/shopexd.asp?id=1392

I’m looking forward to seeing more of them.

Most of Heyer’s oeuvre has been reprinted over the last few years in trade-size paperback by Arrow Books:  since many of these appear on the American Amazon site as well as Amazon UK, I assume they are also available there.
The covers are all taken from 19thC paintings of no great distinction, many of them not particularly appropriate in terms of costume.
:)

Heyer of course - Cotillion, Arabella, Sylvester, Lady of Quality, Friday’s Child.

Second (or third?) Gone with the Wind - surely most of them will have already read it which will help but reading the book and discussing/studying it are different things so it could be a great class.

How about Maeve Binchy’s wonderful Circle of Friends - it’s probably her best, it doesn’t cross any boundaries when it comes to sex scenes and it’s got some very real and bittersweet romance in it. It’s set in the late 1950’s Dublin college scene as well as small-town Ireland so it could make for some very interesting compare-and-contrast exercises - what was dating like for them, what was college life like for them etc etc.

Sarah,

Spencer’s Morning Glory is an excellent novel.  Nicest thing about it, the hero is an ex-convict and the heroine is a pregnant widow (bare feet and all).  Yet their love story comes across as very real and believable. 

The book was extremely well researched.  My da read it when he was recuperating from cancer surgery at my place (he’s 81) and said that Spencer must have lived through WWII.  (Too young for that to my knowledge.)

Must include Heyer, Venetia and Cotillion, both delightful, Cotillion is a lighter read, show in stock at Amazon.  False Colours is also available, but much as I love GH, I hates me books about sucky twins.

And Mary Stewart created the romantic suspense genre.  Agree Ivy Tree is probably the best, but This Rough Magic is the most readable.

Linda Howard, Open Season or Dream Man.  Although Dying to Please does have one mild bondage scene!

Two that come immediately to mind are Envy by Sandra Brown for its setting in the south and My Summer with George by Marilyn French because the protagonist is an older woman who happens to be a romance author.

Consider Rosina Lippi’s contemporary romance, Tied to the Tracks, about a New Jersey film crew plunked into a small, Southern college town.  Rather, it’s about filmmaker Angie and her past (and current?) romance with college department chair John.  And it’s about Miss Zula Bragg, the revered and mysterious author about whom Angie is making a documentary.  And it’s about a whole cast of characters, cleverly portrayed, and topics like adultery, racism and homosexuality.  Oh, there’s lots going on in this book, and on top of it all, Rosina’s clever writing style makes this a very enjoyable read.

Tigress, I didn’t mean that Gaudy Night wasn’t complete in itself; I just meant that one really WANTS to see how the marriage works.  Ideally, one should read the whole four-volume series dealing with the relationship (conveniently available now in a two-volume hardcover set from The Mystery Guild).

Mary Frances, I really dislike Suzanne Robinson because her heroes are such utter bastards.  Kind of ironic, because I went out and bought all her books in one swell foop because I so loved Lord Meren, the hero of the mysteries set in King Tut’s Egypt that she writes as Lynda S. Robinson.  The only one who writes nastier guys that I’ve read is Anne Stuart.

As for sex scenes, I’m with Alison; they just don’t turn me on.  I much prefer what Andy Rooney described as “explicit mush.”

The Tigress and I recently persuaded the gang at The Lunatic Cafe for Romance Readers over on Delphiforums to discuss a Mary Stewart book.  After much discussion, we selected five to be voted on, and Nine Coaches Waiting won.  I don’t think the discussion was as successful as it could be, as many of those who read it (I think all at least a couple of decades younger than The Ancient Briton and The Early American who started it) didn’t care for it, at least partly because it DIDN’T have steamy sex scenes.

Incidentally, we both agreed that This Rough Magic was our favorite and The Ivy Tree our least favorite.  We picked 9CW because the Tigress pointed out it was a superb example of the traditional Gothic (governess heroine, dark brooding aristocratic hero) transforming into the modern romantic suspense novel (capable and daring heroine who doesn’t trust the hero, despite her love, because he might be the one trying to kill her charge).

I read a lot of Mary Stewarts at school (I think our school librarian was a fan). She’s a very British/English writer. Do her romantic suspense novels convey well across the pond?

I quite liked Wildfire at Midnight.

JaimeK:  I recently found several Victoria Holt novels in a USB and read them.  They do not hold up at all well.  In fact, if they are used in a literature course, it would have to be as an illustration of how weird romance novels used to be, back when heroines were TSTL (In one book the heroine suspects her husband of killing her father, but never confronts him about that, or about the fact that she thinks he’s unfaithful) and heroes were rapists (cf The Demon Lover - where TSTL decides she’s in love because he’s a man who takes what he wants !)  Antispam word is saw95,  Only another 91 Saw flicks to go, then.

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this or not, but what about Whitney, My Love.  That was my first romance and I tore thru it!  It’s a great book and I think ladies of all ages would love it.
Also, anything by Sharon Shinn or P.C. Cast.

For a Nora selection, I think I’d go with NORTHERN LIGHTS or BIRTHRIGHT.  Not sure why… just my mood at the moment. It’s hard to go wrong w/ any Nora, though. I personally prefer the straight romances and categories over the romantic suspense/woo ones, but they’re all good.

I’ve seen recommendations for her other stuff, all great BTW,  but Jeanne Ray’s EAT CAKE is probably my favorite. It’s about a wife in the ‘sandwich’ generation, dealing with a husband in mid-life crisis, rebellious teenagers and even more rebellious parents - all living in the same house.

While I’ve come to believe bitterness and envy has made her batshit crazy IRL (I won’t bore you with my theory as to why), for southern romances, it’s tough to top Deborah Smith. As a rule I don’t read southern stuff or first person (hers is both), but she’s an exception for me.  Dang, but that woman can weave a story that resonates indefinitely in one’s mind.  THE CROSSROADS CAFÉ was one of the best books I read last year, and A GENTLE RAIN was pretty darned incredible too. Most of her stuff takes place in Georgia, while RAIN took place in northern Florida.  However, for easier access you might want to go with two of her recent-but-before-she-was-dumped-from-her-publisher backlist, and go with SWEET HUSH or CHARMING GRACE. Both are delightful. They can be obtained in both HB and PB. The two newer ones are trade sizes from her private publisher, and harder to locate w/o shopping online.  HUSH might be fun from a political angle… readers might recognize shades of Bill and Hillary in there. And in GRACE, there’s a big movie star/ business angle – think Stallone, or some other cartoonish over-the-hill action star.

Diane

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh brain overload. Stop it stop it!! Too many books, not enough time or money. Bitches, never, NEVER, in my life, have I come across such an exhaustive list of “must reads”. I don’t know if my wallet can support this. Not to mention my bookshelves (or lack thereof, specifically). Oh sweet merciful god.

*runs around in circles*

How can I have forgotten to mention Jane Heller, who writes funny romance novels about fortyish heroines who get it together?  In Infernal Affairs, the heroine, a frump dumped by her husband with a career going downhill, accidentally sells her soul to the Devil and turns into a gorgeous success.  But there’s a slight problem…