As was reported in the NY Times back in 2007, the NASCAR Harlequins have some specific rules by which they must abide: no sex, no crashes, no drugs, no alcohol use in the content of the story.
Back in 2007, Mark Dyer, VP of licensing for NASCAR, said in the article,
“Look at our stats. Forty percent of our fans are women, and among younger fans it’s trending toward 50-50.” He added that according to Nascar surveys 72 percent of female fans enjoy reading and are more likely than nonfans to purchase books.
This is particularly interesting (and somewhat laughable) in light of Kasey Kahne's Tweetstream yesterday, in which he called a woman breast feeding “nasty”:
And in case you missed that last part, he then told @knittingrad, who told him he was being a douchebag, “Your a dumb bitch.”
All of these screen caps are courtesy of @scatx, who later called out Farmers Insurance, one of Kahne's sponsors, asking if they condoned his behavior.
Ok, first, I cannot let this opportunity pass:
Your: something that belongs to you.
You're: You are.
Let's try that in context!
You're being horribly sexist, Kasey Kahne, and your misogyny is really unattractive considering the number of female NASCAR fans.
If NASCAR is a family sport, one must assume some of those family members were breastfed.
And while I'm hanging out here, let me just take a paragraph and screech: Why is breastfeeding in public still a problem for so many people? What the hell? Do people stare at other diners in a restaurant, unable to look away as they eat? It's a breast. Get over it. You need to see some? Go look at a romance novel cover from the 80s. And some of the ones online.
And as someone who was unable to breastfeed, I hate the shaming and pressure I received to breastfeed (even though I couldn't), and I hate the pressure that those who choose to do so receive from people who can't mind their own damn business. The issue of breastfeeding is such a contentious battlefield. You'd think Mr. Kahne would have the smarts to not voice his rather dimwitted opinion on Twitter – which then fed directly to his Facebook page, where more people supported his comments than argued with him.
But back to Mr. Kahne.
Kahne's response was to delete the tweets and go back to talking about Christmas (I wonder if Santa was breastfed?) but screen caps and angry fans lit a stream of crank ass on KnittingRad and Scatx.
KnittingRad is taking it all in stride:
Kahne tweeted later that he was “Glad everyone had a good Christmas! Thanks for all the feedback. I gained some new perspectives today.”
Wow, that's miles short of an apology, isn't it? I was waiting for the completely flaccid, “I'm sorry if anyone was offended” apology from Kahne. I'm almost disappointed.
Makes me wonder about NASCAR and romance, though. Harlequin NASCARs have the no crashing, no drugs and alcohol, no sex rules. Does that also apply to breastfeeding? Good lord, maybe there's no breasts in NASCAR romance.
No, that can't be right. I've watched NASCAR. There's definitely breasts, both in the stands belonging to women fans, many of whom are mothers, and in the restricted areas, belonging to women hired to promote various products.
It's rather stunning to see misogyny and sexist comments about breastfeeding from a NASCAR driver, especially considering the percentage of female fans of the sport, and NASCAR's effort to reach them with branded products like Harlequin novels. Perhaps the solution is more breastfeeding in NASCAR novels, lots and lots of breastfeeding.
Then we make Kasey Kahne read them all.
ETA: 9:38pmET. Via simba's comment below, Kasey Kahne has apologized for his Tweets via his Facebook page, saying “I understand that my comments regarding breastfeeding posted on Twitter were offensive to some people. For that, I apologize. It was in no way my intention to offend any mother who chooses to breastfeed her child, or, for that matter, anyone who supports breast feeding children.
In all honestly, I was surprised by what I saw in a grocery store…. I respect the mother's right to feed her child whenever and wherever she pleases.”
LizTalley, do you equate mother’s milk with urine or feces? That’s apparently what your husband does, and you seem to think it’s cute. I know, I know – he doesn’t mean that. But that’s exactly what he said and it is extremely offensive. Being a Southern man or woman should not be an excuse for boorish behavior – or a reason to expect others to fetch and carry for oneself. Most wild animals won’t eat feces or drink urine either, and often bury or cover it up. If what a nursing mother is producing when feeding her baby is as offensive as that which is expelled by the body as waste products, can I assume that he does not consume any dairy products at all, or if he does, do you also have animal waste products in your fridge next to the skim milk or ice cream?
My kids are grown now. I couldn’t breastfeed my first and breastfed my second, and hated every minute of it. I didn’t do it in public, but I never had a need to. Activists on both sides can be extremely offensive. Well-meaning ladies of the LaLeche League made me fell unnatural and like a poor mother when I had difficulty with my first daughter.
People should live and let live, and that applies to nursing mothers and their babies. Where one lives may be an explanation of sorts for one’s early education, but not an excuse for continued ignorant attitudes when one knows better.
Americans are funny about breasts…
Since moving here from the UK where breastfeeding is encouraged (but god help you if you choose not to do it), I went from watching UK T.V. with breasts all over the place to US T.V., with guns and violence all over the place but all breasts removed.
Weird.
I think this guy will live to regret that comment.
No idea about Santa, but Jesus was definitely breastfed.
Wow. That was not what I intended at all. My husband did not equate lactation with excretion in any manner. He was merely indicating the showing of the body part and the manner in which some people can find the baring of a body part as offensive no matter the reason. As to the serving of food I was being sarcastic. I don’t serve my husband dinner (or anything) unless I want to. I guess humor doesn’t translate.
As to making excuses for a region, I don’t. I don’t necessarily approve of this attitude in my area. My intent was merely to explain why the driver may have reacted as he did. Not excuse it.
Except Kasey Kahne grew up in Washington State.
@Snarkhunter: I breastfed my eldest (now 10 years old) all over West Virginia when we were vacationing there, and I never once got a single person make any comment or ask me to stop. He was probably about 12 months old at the time. I never did anything to try and cover up, either, because I wasn’t aware of the cultural necessity to do so. The only even slightly unusual event was when I was breast feeding him on the Durbin Rocket steam train and an older couple (70’s) had a big look and asked lots of questions because neither the man nor the woman had ever seen anyone breastfeed before! So, in my expereince WVa is a fine place to bf.
I like the fact that this has lead to some discussion on the topic of breastfeeding amongst women. As someone who has breastfeed I think that either way the needs of the child not the needs of the public are what is important.
In his post he said he had to look twice to confirm she was breastfeeding – why bother if it grosses you out? I am not a huge proponent of breastfeeding in public, for myself personally, but do I care if others do? Not really. When my kids see it I view it as a chance to educate my kids on what is happening.
I will also say that juggling a sometimes squirming baby, and keeping a blanket covering all the important stuff is a bit of a challenge if not downright impossible but what is “hanging out” is generally less than what you see hanging all over a car in a bikini. He does not deserve the publicity this is gaining him and as for Nascar I will likely now always associate them with that driver who was too loose with his words on twitter.
I agree with you 100%. As someone who lives in a country routinely portrayed as violent in the news (well, until recently but still), I’m more shocked by the amount of violence on US television. As my mother likes to complain “Do they ONLY have crime dramas on tv? How do they sleep at night?” LOL.
I too am surprised at all this baby covering nonsense. It’s not a big deal here. Breastfeeding is not sexual but somehow the duality of the breast (Nurturing and Sexual Stimulation) is not allowed? I don’t understand at all.
This reminds me of something a famous advertising specialist said about how in France you don’t talk about money and in the US you don’t talk about sex and the body.
So maybe it’s not a regional thing as much as a gender thing which would give credence to the thought men find it more offensive because breasts are not being used as they *think* they should be. Or should I clarify and say *most* men. But there are some women who aren’t comfortable with it either, so maybe it’s merely a personal view? Regardless, I’ve found the conversation here today so interesting, and other than a few who took my comment as it was not intended, enjoyable. I don’t often comment on blogs such as this, but found the various thoughts enlightening. I an only hope that Kasey found it the
same case. Or at the very least, will be more careful with his words.
Kasey Kahne is from Enumclaw, WA. Any further north and he’d be from Canada.
Yeah, so that totally destroyed my theory 🙂 I’m waving the white flag …but I still enjoyed hearing from various people from all over on how it’s viewed in their neck of the woods. And it’s made me think, and ask other people what they think, so I’m glad I “discussed” it here today. Although maybe next time, I’ll just keep my thoughts to myself.
Breast feeding at the supermarket? Sorry, I don’t expect that any more than I expect to see an adult munching his lunch at the supermarket. It’s not an objection to breast feeding—I breast fed my children. But not at the supermarket, or at the hardware store, or walking down the street. Let’s not get ridiculous here. Not every activity, no matter how “natural”, needs to be done in public. Nor are people entitled to do anything they please in public.
And I don’t see that calling someone a “dumb bitch” is any more offensive than calling someone a “douchebag.” Less offensive, actually.
Yes, he’s an ass for having twitted these comments. But that’s one of the problems with Twitter, isn’t it? People say dumb things and all of a sudden their stupidity is spread all over the universe.
Wow, Sarah, witness the awesome extent of Smart Bitch influence. The news story in the Seattle Post-Intellegencer about his apology quotes your comments. http://www.seattlepi.com/sport…
I’m glad you shared your perspective, Liz. It gave me a lot to think about today. I went to college in South Carolina at a school that was mostly local women (it was a women’s college) and for the first 2 years I think I was the only Yankee. I learned a LOT about Southern culture, and the variations between, say, Irmo & Lexington, and Charleston & Edisto, let alone the differences between SC and PA. (Which are huge.) (OMG.)
There are vast cultural differences between different parts of the country, and I think that part of what leads to some of the more contentious battles politically is how little different parts of the US understand one another.
Breastfeeding is a small example of that. I’ve seen women breastfeeding in the mall, and once in a diner, and thought very little of it, except how she kept the baby from whapping his head on the table was beyond me, as he was a very! energetic! feeder! it! was! lunchtime! *fistpump!* yeah! (This is Jersey, after all.)
But it sounds like, from your account and others, that there are places where you live in the US where it’s considered by many to be really, truly unacceptable to do in public – and that makes me sad. As I said, there’s enough pressure to breastfeed when you have a baby that to then face censure when and where you do so is miserable. It shouldn’t be shameful to breastfeed anywhere you need do, but I understand that some people feel that it is embarrassing for them to witness.
Good thing we all have eye muscles and can choose where to direct our eyeballs.
What is worse to me are some of the negative reactions that not only reject the idea of breastfeeding anywhere but in total seclusion so no one has to see it, but then go on to castigate the mother in question for not knowing better, and employ sexist and demeaning language in order to further state their opinion. (Liz- I’m not saying you did this *at all*! I’m talking more about the lovely people who engaged with me on Twitter about where they prefer to see tits and where they prefer not to see them) (0_o).
I’ve joked that it doesn’t take a village to raise your child, it takes a village to tell you how you ought to be raising your child. Mothering a baby can be alienating enough already without that pesky village. I think it’s fascinating to discuss how and where opinions differ, but this issue seems to bring out frightening levels of sexism, misogynist comments, and vitriolic defenses of breastfeeding, too.
Which is a really long-winded way of saying I’m glad you shared your opinion, Liz, even if I disagree with your husband and neighbor, as you gave me a lot to think about.
Holy smoke – thank you for the link, Simba!
When I breastfed in public (when I had to; babies nurse every couple hours and are pretty insistent when they are hungry, and you can’t spend your whole life at home) I found that with a loose-fitting shirt, nursing bra, and skilled baby—you have to be pretty close and at the exact right angle during a split second to see the breast at all. Because the baby’s head blocks the view of the breast, and the shirt and baby cover the rest of your torso. And this is also what I observe when I do spy women breastfeeding while out and about—sling nursing is also similarly modest, and none require covering the poor baby with some weird tentlike contraption (which I also see, but more rarely).
And seeing bodily fluids at the grocery store? You do know you’re walking around in a building full of dismembered farm animal organs, cow bodily fluids, chicken periods, and bee vomit, right?
Kasey Kahne’s sponsers include: Farmer’s Insurance, Chevrolet, Quaker State, Sunoco, Good Year, 3M, Coors Light, Moog, USG, Mahle…there are a few others but I couldn’t read the decals on the car image. http://www.hendrickmotorsports…
Good to know! I actually wasn’t sure—I’ve only lived in WVa for a couple of years (2.5 almost exactly, I think), and I’m still learning. I’m actually fascinated by what a mass of contradictions it is. I had friends there who are from the Deep South (and who are moving back :;sob::), and they find WVa to be “Yankee.” I laugh and say that if we’re below the Mason-Dixon (well, if it extended beyond MD), then we’re emphatically NOT in the North.
As someone who grew up not far from Enumclaw, I can say with authority that this *does* reinforce my theory about it being a rural attitude.
We used to jokingly call it “Enumscratch.” Enumclaw is to other parts of King County what West Virginia is to the rest of the nation. (And as I now live in and will defend West Virginia, I imagine that Enumclaw is probably a lovely place with a few issues.)
The only romances I’ve read featuring nascar all have sex and crashes and alcohol. Wait, does Erin McCarthy just say they’re race car drivers and I somehow assumed it was Nascar? No, no way, it’s totally Nascar. Which I have never seen. And don’t car about. And I’m over her books (strangely enough, it was the devoid of redeeming qualities alcoholic heroine that was the last straw, nothing to do with the cars), but the fact remains, these are not PG romances. They may not be harlequin, but they’ve got nascar all over the place, and I assume nascar could put a stop to it if they cared to.
I’m not thrilled when I see women breastfeed in public, but I would never question their right to do so. It’s simple to look away, and it’s not like it’s a scarring experience or anything. It just seems private to me. Like when people are kissing I don’t stare at that either, not because kissing is bad or shameful or shouldn’t happen in public, I just feel like I’m witnessing something…personal, I guess. Not for me.
And I thought the exchange with your husband was funny, liztalley.
While I personally have no problem with breastfeeding, and won’t glance twice if some lady whips out her boob to feed her baby, I understand that lots of people find it unappealing to look at, and I honestly don’t understand why, unless it’s ridiculously hot out, draping a blanket over yourself is considered to somehow be “wrong” or “bowing to the pressure of prudes,” or whatever the argument is.
I mean, I’d like it if lady nipples were to somehow become less sexual, because it would be great to not have to wear a chafing bra or bathing suit in the summer to avoid lecherous stares, but the unfortunate truth is the immediate association with breasts is sex.
And yeah, obviously they’re formed from mammary glands specifically for breastfeeding, but in my experience, at least, they definitely have a purpose when it comes to the sexytimes, so I don’t see that association from people on the street going away any time soon, even if a baby is what is attached to the nipple, and not an adult of the breast owners sexual preference.
I also agree with the person who said they’re more shocked by the guy calling the woman a dumb bitch than by him being grossed out by breastfeeding.
i couldn’t breastfeed my 1st because she was in an isolete for a week because of jaundice and back in 69 parents weren’t allowed in the nursery much less allowed to go in and breastfeed them. my 2nd i breastfeed and my husband was a you know what about it. he wanted her breastfeed but he didn’t want to see it. to bad i did it where i wanted. i lived in Japan from age 10 to 14 and saw it all the time as natural. my 3rd my inlaws had fits over the breastfeeding because as my fil put it if you breast feed a boy he will be gay. (OMG) and a girl should only be feed for a couple of months. i feed my 2nd and 3rd up til they were 18 months old and they decided they were no longer interested. It is natural and anyone that doesn’t want to watch can go elsewhere a baby eats when and where they no matter what when they get hungry. and it is so stupid the pressure people put on us.
It’s not that putting a blanket or cover over yourself and the baby is “wrong”—it’s that some babies won’t stand for it. Really. And why should they have to? I don’t want to eat under a blanket.
oh wow… so many thoughts on this…
1. Twitter-guy (NASCAR guy) comes out looking very bad. Granted, he can have whatever opinion he likes about what he does/does not like to see, but… his chosen manner of expression – it looks bad for him.
2. In a grocery store? bwhhhhaaaa? Is this a special grocery store that has some form of seating, or was the woman just walking or standing around feeding baby? Because… I don’t think I’ve ever seen a grocery store with seating. On the other hand… walking while attempting to breast-feed sounds ALL KINDS of awkward. My mind boggles at the logistics.
3. On the topic of logistics, it WOULD be nicer if more stores/shopping centers/restaurants had places where you could go attend your small child. Granted, now many (but not all!) restrooms have some form of changing table, often fold-down, but it would be nice if more of them had a quiet place with seating where you could go feed your baby. None of this is of benefit for those of us whose babies are past that stage – it might have been nice back when mine needed it, you know? Progress is being made, but…
4. I can understand both sides of the breast-feed wherever yes/no debate. Yes, it is a natural and good thing for a mom to be able to breastfeed her baby, it isn’t about sex, it shouldn’t be considered thrilling/stimulating/whatever. Yes, there have been studies that say breast feeding boosts the immune system and helps create a stronger mother/child bond. No – There are places where it might not be a good idea – be it due to social norms, logistics, or environmental factors. (in church. At a wedding/graduation/funeral. in the rain. At a noisy sporting event. at a school. in a store.) Please define ‘in public’ for the purpose of your question…
5. I am not surprised that some people would stare/gawk/make rude remarks. I would be rather surprised at such a sight in the middle of a store as well. The very fact that you know there are people who would stare (completely setting aside the question of should they stare) would be enough to put some people off of attempting such things in public, as well as some people’s sense of personal body-modesty causing a reluctance to attempt in public. In short, many women would be reluctant to attempt breast-feeding in public die to either the knowledge that some people would stare or their own body-modesty. – Let’s face it, some people are just more willing to expose more of themselves than others (for whatever reasons) and while one woman may be okay opening up her shirt to feed baby right there, the next may not.
6. Yes, some people on either side of the breast-feeding yes/no question can be very forceful. Sometimes even scary.
Honestly, I can understand being surprised. I can understand feeling like breast-feeding baby is something that might be better done in a less public area (my babies were both highly distracted by crowds, noises, lights…) I do know that behavioral norms change over time and region.
But there was no need for him to be so rude about it.
…and it would be nice if someday, the question of breast-feeding in public wound up the same as debating if two inch heels were appropriate (can you walk in them? is it not-problematic for the place – beaches and places with lots of grill-work should be right out), or a particular color of clothing (would you prefer that in red, ivory, or teal?). But I think we can all admit that this is not yet that day.
Yup, as soon as they could pull the blanket away, all bets were off. Too many other interesting things to look at, including the favorite show of Mom’s face. I nursed in the car, in the dressing rooms of major department stores (my go-to place), and even, yuk, in bathrooms. But there’s always a day where nothing goes as planned, and you are out to lunch, and the food just gets there, and the baby goes nuts, and the toddler can’t be left alone at the table…and the people in Chili’s are just going to have to deal. And unless you were staring right at my breast you likely wouldn’t even notice what’s going on, so eyes up here mister!
I live in TX, and a conservative part of TX at that, and I never got hassled about it, but like most moms I didn’t make a big fuss about it either. You just do what you do. The only time anyone ever gave me shit about anything was when I took the first baby out when she was a newborn because I desperately needed something to wear in between maternity and pre-baby sizes. Some busybody in Target got on my case: “You shouldn’t have a baby that little in a public place!” “Yeah, well, if you keep your germs over there to yourself, she’ll be fine!”
If a person finds breast feeding as nasty as urine or feces that is their opinion. Who are you to tell someone what they should or shouldn’t be disgusted by?
Liberalism at it’s worst. So now people have to put up with public breastfeeding. I suggest combating this by leering at the women or filming it for porn sites..
can’t be professional lactation consultants or educators…
In NASCAR the white flag means one lap left to go, right? Heh. Really though, I appreciate the insights and discussion!
Yes. Exactly! Where you live (at least not in western countries) is not an excuse, not in these times when you have all the information you could possibly want (and more) at the tip of your fingers! Ignorance and unwillingness to better yourself and see there is more than one way to do things the “right” way is never cute and shouldn’t be viewed as such. How can we overcome any kind of prejudices if we make light of them and explain them with Oh, it’s ok to be close-minded ‘cause that’s the way it’s always been where I live and isn’t that charming! And yes, I do feel that comparing mothers milk to urine is ignorant.
If you see someone breastfeeding in public, and it bothers you, look elsewhere! MYOB. And move on and go about your business.
I hope the nursing mothers of America start having “nurse-ins” at NASCAR events. The one today seems to have done wonders for Target’s attitude. If I’d known about the nurse-in thing today, I’d have made a sign saying I’m in solidarity with them and joined the one at my local Target. Only heard about it after the fact.
Of course, I’m not shopping at Target right now anyway because I’m participating in the Moveon.org boycott…
This reminds me of a Sarah Franz article that analyzed sexy breast feeding scenes in romance novels (obviously not NASCAR Harlequins!). Not that I have anything against either sex or breast feeding, but something about guys getting turned on by watching women feed their babies and the descriptions of the milk sensually squirting into their mouths – *disturbing*…
Liztalley’s comments reminded me of my years in the “rural south” as a member of the U.S. Army, how despicable the entire region and its pig-ignorant redneck majority was then and still remains in so many ways, how destructive the influence of southern politicians in Congress is now and always has been, and how much better off the rest of us would be now if the ancestors of the said politicians had gotten their way in 1861 and peeled off to live in their own self-reflecting barbarism, hypocrisy, and completely unmerited arrogance. Plus, those of us who live in blue states wouldn’t need to keep exporting tax money to prop up the miserable red states of Dixie and preserve them from a total collapse into something like Somalia. And Kevin Kahne, trashy-rural Washington lad that he is, should probably move down there if he hasn’t already—it seems he would fit in perfectly.
What does he think boobs are supposed to be used for? I am so tired of some assholes thinking that breasts are just for some kind of sexual purpose. How do they think babies were fed before bottles? Duh! And he can’t handle seeing a boob in public? A douchebad indeed!!!
I grew up in the land o’ Nascar—this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Someone mentioned a slightly hippie angle of the Pacific NW, and I just may happen to live in Eugene,Oregon…ahem. I have seen plenty of breastfeeding and it has never bothered me, even though I myself wasn’t breastfeed, yet am not dying, weak, or mentally unfit (or at least have never been judged so by a court of law).
I totally understand the viewpoint of a penis or a breast being whipped out as equivalent, and honestly I could care less if I catch a glimpse of either breast or penis, though if I walk through a puddle of any bodily fluids all bets are off on my tolerance.
I have also come across the lust by watching “their” woman breastfeed and find it weird. Also it makes me instinctively go “No! That’s not for you, get your own milk! Greedy!” as it always seems like they’re jealous of the baby getting to feed.
I know, I can’t get my head around that either. Warm, gooey feeling seeing your woman feed your baby? Check. Overcome by lust and wanting to taste the milk? Back off, bucko. I don’t know about anyone else’s experience, but swollen, sore, leaking breasts do not make for good sex toys, LMAO! And honestly, the babies left me feeling very “touched out”, and that became a non-erogenous zone for the duration.
It also floors me when heroines are so eager to jump back in the sack as soon as humanly possible after childbirth. And some of them don’t even wait for the 6 week doctor check. Their mileage definitely varied from mine, because first let’s wait for the bleeding to finally stop – longest. period. ever. – and then, yeouch, handle with care, my ladybits have been abused sorely! And let’s not even talk about wonky hormones and the effects of sleep deprivation. Six weeks easily turned into eight or more.
1. Women raising children today – there is a push against it. The push is for women to be in the market place and not raising their own. Coupled with rising prices there is a NEED for women to take up the role of making money for the household as WELL AS raising the children. Having 2 jobs at once never ends well for anyone. Least of all the child.
2. Breastfeed vs Formula: it’s all cyclical. In my mother’s time it was all about the bottle. My mother looks back now and told me “If I had known breastfeeding would have helped you I would have injected myself with those hormones, no matter how hurtful.” (FYI I’m adopted so that’s why she didn’t straight up do it). Now it’s a push for the boob. On top of it all is the psychological pressure of being the perfect mother and providing the best for your child.
3. Sexuality of the Boob: Men have the strange problem of dealing with with their Person Whom They Have Sex With turn into a mother. That does NOT in anyway preclude sexy times again but you’d be lying to yourself if there aren’t any moments that are strange. Men who tend to view women as sex partners (I’m staying away from objects just to be nice) see that new role of “mother” as a threat. How can she be sexy and someone eat at the place that they want to play with? What happens if boob juice gets on them??? OH SWEET LAWDY! I wouldn’t expect someone who hasn’t had a child or gone through this to understand. I DO expect them to shut the fuck up about what they don’t know or are experiencing themselves. Just as I wouldn’t mock NASCAR in front of a NASCAR driver so they should be smart enough and kind enough to keep their traps shut about things they don’t know elsewhere.
Common Courtesy. We needs it.
Well, obviously the guy is a moron. The world is full of them. I was most excited to see that Sarah used his tweet as an opportunity for a grammar lesson. Good for you! You made me smile this morning:)