I flip around a great deal between the subgenres that I love, and I was curious what you like to read. If you’re so inclined, would you share with me what subgenres you like? Please click all that apply – and thank you!
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Virginia: no, not reality. The human imagination is what they are grounded in, and imagination is frequently diametrically opposed to reality.
It’s not difficult to think of a winged horse, or of a person changing into an animal. Any child can imagine it. Doesn’t mean it has anything to do with the world we inhabit.
@AgTigress but suppose a reader doesn’t want the historical element? Wouldn’t it be misleading then to categorize it as just fantasy, then? Point being, then you’d have to have Historical-Fantasy-Romance… What about historicals that have paranormal elements?
This is all rhetorical, of course. Much like with the digital media debacle, the publishing industry is also mirroring the music industry in this regard, too. “Now there’s a category for every song.” – Blue October
I don’t think it’s a *bad* thing, necessarily, either. Just – amusing. 🙂
@Ag Tigeress
I would consider anything by Georgette Heyer a classic. Also Mary Stewart. Likewise I agree with you classics were left off the list.
It always bother me a smidge when people classify an austen as a historical, because she wrote in her own time. Actually it bothers me more when some- any -author is referred to as the Jane Austen of our time because she writes regencies/books about JA characters.
As for Heyer comtemporaries, Dude where did you find them?
None of them have been reprinted as far as I can tell, and Heyer herself tried to repress them. I have read a fair amount of Heyer about half of eveything she wrote, but none of her contemporaries.
Sorry but Waterloo was in 1815.
I’m strongly tempted to say ‘what historical element?’; since vampires did not exist in the Regency (or any other time or place), then the book cannot be historical in any meaningful sense.
But to answer more constructively, this is why we read blurbs and reviews. 🙂
Emily, Heyer only suppressed her four early contemporary romances (and at least one of her early historicals, The Great Roxhythe, which I have read), but her 12 contemporary whodunnits, published between 1932 and 1953, are available. I have all of them. Like Christie and Patricia Wentworth, Heyer tended to incorporate a romantic element into these detective stories.
I know when the Battle of Waterloo was!! I was commenting on the general period of the Regency, 1811-20 and indeed, into the reign of George IV, and the many things that were going on during the first quarter of the 19th century.
I have to agree with AgTigress’s definition of what is paranormal and what is fantasy. I do wish that some of the genre labels were a bit more precise. It would make searching for specific types of stories so much easier. It seems that the category “paranormal” has become a catch-all and is defined as “any damn thing an author can dream up that we don’t feel comfortable putting in another category.” Come on publishers, you work with words all day long. Feel free to slap a couple of them together and come up with a few new genres/categories to help us readers find what we want.
And I have to disagree with the above. I do believe such things as vampire and shape-shifter myths are grounded in common human fears or psychologies, or whatever you want to call them, but I highly doubt that they are grounded in reality. But then we’d need to discuss what is the precise definition of “reality.” :o)
And “Historical.” Yes, way to broad a category. I like a lot of historical romances: Regency, Medieval, American West, Viking, and on and on. I’ve read good examples of all of them, but it would be helpful if they were listed more specifically on book selling sites, for when you’re in the mood for a certain type of read.
And, yes, overall, this HAS been an interesting discussion of everyone’s interpretations of what defines different subgenres.
@AgTigress. Oh, man. I so heartily apologize and curse mildly at myself. It was m-m-mouse replying to you. I shoulda known better. I promise to be so much more careful in the future. Public humiliation, even when administered to and by myself just kinda ruins my day. I so admire your erudition. I almost couldn’t believe it myself. It is actually kind of a relief to have been so wrong.
Oh, and I forgot to mention under “other”… post-apocalyptic romance. I dig it.
Me too, somewhat. I understand it though, because for today’s readers, the setting IS historical and they read like a historical, although probably a more realistic version of that history.
Okay. There are certain genetic anomalies that crop up now and surely cropped up in ancient times where physical deformities and certain behaviours gave rise to perhaps folklorical explanations and, strong in my memory, but not clear enough to cite, is the description in one of my Arthurian legend “fictional” books of the hairy dark little Pictish dude clinging to the neck of his hairy dark little horse and appearing as one with it. I hate to go here, but a terrible little man with a weird moustache that was not Charlie Chaplin, had some people do kind of a lot of research on the subject and there is photographic evidence. Of the first example, not the second. I am not an academic and I have to empty the dishwasher. Keep on keepin’ on. . .
@AgTigress
I certainly hope so! It would make my purchasing choices that much easier – go into a particular category, play roulette, and check out. I jest (somewhat).
Thank you for the thorough explanation – you’ve given me some food for thought. Since I’m a lazy reader, I never really questioned the paranormal romance category publishers tagged onto books, nor have I considered their etymology too closely. I only hope the field will come to some standardized terminology soon.
You’re right – F/F romance was a TOTAL brainfart on my part. My apologies to every awesome lesbian everywhere. Feel free to add it to the ‘other’ field as those will be included when I do the final tally.
As far as paranormal romance, and how to define it, I honestly think the definition shifts so much every year, it’s harder to say what is and what isn’t. Some UF is, some isn’t paranormal at all. Is post-apocalyptic UF paranormal? Not always. GAH. Science Fiction/Fantasy romances can contain worlds that don’t involve paranormal elements at all, such as vampires, campy vampires, ghosts, etc. Developing the list and keeping it SHORT was tough. So I well understand where folks disagree with my delineations. My goal was to keep the subgenre terms as simple and clear as possible.
@Anony Mousse: I recently read the Adrien English series by Josh Lanyon, and I absolutely loved them. Definitely worth reading.
JL Langley is another good m/m author. I like her Sci-Regency series, starting with My Fair Captain. Her With or Without series is popular, although I haven’t gotten to that yet. And I plan to pick up Tin Star, a cowboy book, as soon as I finish up a few library books.
Duck! by Kim Dare was good. It’s a retelling of The Ugly Duckling, with BDSM. The romance is really kind of sweet and made me tear up a time or two.
And I read The Happy Onion by Ally Blue the other day and enjoyed that quite a bit, too.
I second the recommendation to check out the m/m group at Goodreads. It’s a big group and can be kind of overwhelming at first. But they’re very helpful and willing to make suggestions based on the kinds of stories you like. They claim to be the #1 source for info on m/m books on the internet, and I believe them.
@LG
But to further confuse the issue, in my mind, you can split Urban Fantasy and Urban Fantasy Romance into two different sub-genres. The distinct HEA or HFN is the line for me, along with the romantic relationship being central to the plot. So if you have a long series where there’s no romantic resolution, or the romance is decidedly back seat (if even in the car) to the action and world-building, then that would be UF. I’ve not read them, I think the Dresden books might be an example here? But something like the BDB series would be UF Romance because each book provides the completion of a romantic arc that is key to the story. And something like Moning’s Fever series, I’d call that UFR because the story arc did resolve the relationship between the two leads. It’s just one big-ass book in five volumes, LOL.
But I’m not sure what one should do with Anita Blake. 😉
Virginia. You had me worried there about the word ‘guy’. It is in my vocabulary only as (1) a proper name and (2) the term for the effigy burnt on November 5th (derived, of course, from the proper name). If I found myself saying ‘guys’, I would know I had been possessed by an alien entity, an entirely paranormal event. To say the least.
Natural events and manifestations that have been claimed as the origins of certain mythological/fantasy concepts may conceivably be valid. Everybody knows that aberrations occur in nature, such as two-headed lambs, so perhaps it is not too big a stretch to suggest that the first riders of horses in the Bronze Age gave rise to the idea of Centaurs, and so forth.
But the thing is, these ‘explanations’ are simply not necessary. Any human can imagine them with no difficulty whatsoever, and they don’t even have to have taken quantities of mind-altering substances to do so. We can extrapolate from the natural to the fantastical without any prompting from objects in nature. I can remember imagining a winged horse when I was a small child, long before I knew about Pegasus in Greek legend (and I was delighted when I did encounter him!) As I said, anyone can do it.
AgTigress said:
I don’t disagree, but the thing that’s interesting to me about this is that Romance Writers of America has no such category in its Golden Heart and RITA contests. Every romance that’s paranormal, UF, time travel, fantasy, futuristic, or has sci-fi elements competes in a single category – Paranormal – which, as you might imagine, is hyper-competitive. It’s an interesting conundrum.
RWA’s definition: Paranormal Romance
Romance novels in which the future, a fantasy world or paranormal happenings are an integral part of the plot.
http://www.rwa.org/cs/category_descriptions
Get LKH a good therapist?
Tamara, I think that the RWA broad category probably just reflects the fact that the genres are changing and evolving at a rate that makes it impractical to subdivide too much. The moment one tried to cover all the possibilities specifically, someone would come up with something new.
AgTigress, I agree 100%. I don’t think creating more sub-categories or further slicing and dicing PNR would accomplish much, for the very reason you cite. Also? Even here, amongst some of the most passionate, informed readers of romance I’m aware of, we have strong differences of opinion about sub-genre categorization. No easy answers.
I’m finding this discussion fascinating, in case you can’t tell. Such a nice break from doing taxes. 😉
@Anony-Mousse in addition to all the recs you’ve received further up the thread (and totally seconding the recs for everything that JL Langley has written), try Madeleine Urban and Abigail Roux’s books. ‘Caught Running’ was reviewed by SBSarah here a while ago, and another stand-alone, ‘Warrior’s Cross’ made me cry and cry, but I think their best work is their ‘Cut and Run’ series.
@Anony Mousse:
I was reluctant to try m/m, but am a big fan of Joey W. Hill’s “The Nature of Desire” series and didn’t want to miss one, so I read “Rough Canvas” anyway. Absolutely loved it. It is an erotic romance and BDSM to boot, but if that’s not too much for you, I can’t recommend this one highly enough.
Dark Divas also reviews a lot of GLBT books.
I like all paranormals except for shapeshifting that involves wolves/canine, cats/feline. That is an eww for me. Dragons and birds of prey are fine. I consider futuristic (also post-apocolyptic) to be sub-sub-genres of sci-fi and urban fantasy a sub-sub genre of fantasy (and my preference in that genre). Cowboy/Westerns are sub-sub genres of Historical (unless they are Contemporaries).
Steampunk is in a wonderful genre all by itself.
Whether it’s a marketing category or not, I do see “western” as a subgenre, with some books being historical and some not. While the historicals may deal with the settling of the American West, the contemporaries also deal with aspects of the modern “western” lifestyle—cowboys, ranches, rodeos, remote rural living, etc.
captcha: average44. I’d average reading about 44 cowboys a night if I had more time.
While my taste runs to erotica—usually historical—there’s one area virtually untouched in either romance or historical writing:
Superheroes.
There’s something very sexy about gorgeous women in revealing outfits and hard-bodied men wearing tight spandex. There’s often a love/lust-vs.-duty (Batman and Catwoman, Spider-Man and the Black Cat), and I’ve lectured on the parallels between BDSM and many hero-villain relationships. And the mysterious masked romantic figure goes back to Zorro. Yet the closest romance/erotica books come to this genre are the “paranormal” folks who seem to be more of a subspecies of human (vampires! cat-people!) than uniquely powered beings.
(Incidentally, an area where this is starting to get covered quite a bit is porn. There have been x-rated movies of Batman (‘60s show and THE DARK KNIGHT), Wonder Woman, and Superman; upcoming ones include THE JUSTICE LEAGUE (yay!), Spider-Man, and the Incredible Hulk.)
Becky, the With or Without series is really good. I would definitely recommend them. There is a new one coming out this month that I preordered. Also, Tin Star has a sequel called the Broken H (just in case you didn’t know about it)
As far as other m/m, I LOVED Marie Sexton’s Coda series. A definite must read for m/m, imho. And I really liked KA Mitchell’s Florida series – Diving in Deep, Collision Course, No Souveniers (the second two are better than the first I think) I also love ZA Maxfield. My favorites are Drawn Together, EPistols at Dawn, and Crossing Borders (as another poster said, ignore the awful cover). Her St. Nachos series is good too.
Happy reading!
I love reading fantasy and YA books. They seem to take up about 90 percent of what I read (and review).
Great question! Is there any way you could tell us what the most popular genres were?
Like a lot of people who commented, I gotta love a good paranormal romance!
@ SheaLuna “Oh, and I forgot to mention under “other”… post-apocalyptic romance. I dig it.”
I’ve read Joss Ware and have really enjoyed her series, but haven’t found any others as yet. Would anyone recommend other authors for me to try?
Anony Mousse: For m/m, I recommend Maritime Men by Janey Chapel and the sequel Anchors Aweigh (contemporary SEAL story), and second the recommendations of No Souvenirs by K. A. Mitchel (contemporary, on the border of erotica) and something by Amy Lane [either Keeping Promise Rock (contemporary), Talker (contemporary; heart wrenching), or Truth in the Dark (fantasy; re-telling of Beauty and the Beast)]. If you like shape shifter stories there’s JL Langley With or Without series (more erotica) and Joely Skye, maybe Feral (its more complete than some of her others seem). If you want to read the story from the emotionally-unavailable hero’s perspective, Resistance by LM Turner (contemporary) was good too. Like someone else said if you want a more kinky/open sex book, I’d suggest Double Blind by Heidi Cullinan (its technically a sequel but I liked it much better than the first one.) If you like stories with some kind of military guy (contemporary), I’d suggest Sarah Black too, maybe start with Idaho Battleground.
Still haven’t found a good F/F author, but please share if you do, as I am looking.
LMAO! Also, BevQB, thinking about it I kind of agree.
Hmm, its interesting where we place books in a sub-genre. For example, I read some cowboy romances, but they’re usually m/m or contemporary, so I didn’t even think of adding “western” as “other” because two different things I clicked would have covered them.
Personally, for me, UF can be romance. Look at Mercy Thompson. It’s not her singular defining feature, but it’s been one of her biggest triggers for awhile. It’s lead her to a lot of mix-ups in the past couple books. It’s definitely something she thinks a good deal about. It’s a part of the world-building. Especially for pack type behavior that tends to use the trope about one-mate for life typically. But the women also kick serious ass with or without the male around. Usually with a mindset of preferably with back up, but hey, a girl can’t everything in life. (I tend to think of it like Underworld 1 and 2 but in book form. I’d say the prequel was more like PR.)
For Paranormal Romance, I tend to fall into the Linda Wisdom, or MJD side of things. Both deal with genres deal with supernaturals (paranormals) but they’re vastly different in the content. PR, I’ve found, tend to be more light-hearted. Or the Jane Jameson the Librarian series that I’m in love with. Michele Bardsely, too. The focus is primarily on the impact of love in a new world for most of the authors. Not all. But most.
They are both favorites and bulk of my reading is about them. Lately, I’ve been reading a lot of YA Fantasy Romance, like Melissa Marr. It’s definitely Fantasy, what with the faeries. But for me, I love that type of stuff. I get utterly bored by doctors, architects, and billionaires. I love some contemporary, like the apparently much dreaded Chick Lit. I’m a sucker for it. I’ve no idea why, but I love it nonetheless.
@AgTigress Medical Romance is alive and well in Mills and Boon! They recently ran a big campaign to get more new Medical authors, so the demand for the books is obviously there. I believe that in the US you can get them too but only from the online store, not in shops.
Good heavens! I associate them chiefly with the 1950s-70s! I think I like the new covers better than the ones I remember.
🙂
Sarah, I hope you’ll share the results with us. I’m curious to know what everyone else is reading.
Based on the recommendations above I finally tried Z. A. Maxfield (Crossing Borders) and liked it so I’d add her to the list, Anony Mousse. (Contemporary)
@Anony Mousse
I can also recommend Josephine Myles for British m/m romance.
I’m with Hollygee about “older” h/h. Life does NOT end at 30. IN fact, I find writing about more mature h/h brings a new dimension to the stories I write. And read.
@Anony Mousse
One of the best m/m love stories is by Tere Michaels “Love and Fidelity series”
best mystery m/m Adrien English Mysteries (there are 5)
Warriors Cross- just loved that book
@Anony Mousse
I actually write F/F , Lesbian Romance for Bold Strokes Books. They have a great catalog of book from every subgenre. http://www.boldstrokesbooks.com/ (I’m actually typing this comment from our Lesbian Book Festival in Palm Springs)
I would also try Bella Books. http://www.bellabooks.com
I went through a phase in high school where I read every romantic novel I could find about f/f relationships. The two I remember being really good were Curious Wine, which at this point must be considered a classic of lesbian fiction, and the YA novel Annie on My Mind, which is much loved—just check out the customer reviews online.
I now require suspense in ALL my fiction reading, regardless of subgenre. I think of subgenre as more of a setting than a type of book. What I happen to really dislike at this point in time is chick lit. I do read some inspirationals, but I really hate being preached at so these are not my favorite but will do when nothing else is available.
I don’t think the classification would work like that, Jacqueline. 😉
Classes and sub-classes are hierarchical, so if we take ‘Fiction’ as the main class (level 1), ‘Romance’ is a genre within it (level 2), and ‘Historical romance’ is one level down again, level 3, alongside the other classes or ‘sub-genres’ that Sarah listed. But within that level 3, ‘historical’, we can go down another level (4) taking chronology as the crucial parameter: e.g. Ancient Egypt, Classical world, other Ancient World, Early Medieval, Medieval, 16th century, 17th century, 18th, 19th, 20th. Those would be a broad-brush coverage of sub-sub, or level 4, classifications. But they can also be further subdivided (for example, ‘Regency’ is rather a major subdivision of ‘19th century’, and ‘Roman’ is a subdivision of ‘the Classical World’). These would probably be sub-typed under the level ‘4’ headings. And then, as so often happens in typology, there are parameters that cut right across the chronological divisions, namely geographical settings. One would obviously need very different sub-classes for, say, a European setting in the 2nd century AD, and China in the same period (Han Dynasty).
Classification is not for wimps: it’s quite challenging to assess which similarities and differences are significant, and to ensure that the levels are consistent. One does not want to finish up with every unit being in a separate category, or there is no point in the exercise, and the framework devised must also be flexible and logical enough for new types to be slotted in. For example, I doubt if there are many Han Dynasty Chinese romance novels around, but there needs to be a logical place for them if they suddenly become popular!
Sometimes one can only classify satisfactorily using a table with horizontal and vertical lines, each subdivided with clear titles, and the classes consist of the patterns made by ticking or leaving blank the cells where the two intersect. That system can deal with the problem of overlapping classes (the case with classifying novels), which is always a big problem with a simple hierarchy.
Probably too much about taxonomy. Sorry. 🙁
Why yes, yes I can.
But if you haven’t read Whistling in the Dark by Tamara Allen, start there. Now.