I had a long conversation recently about self-publishing and how readers perceive it. I personally occupy a weird space: I am a blogger, reader, reviewer, published author, and with every month that I run this site, I learn more about publishing than I knew when the site began over 5 years ago. I interact differently with self-published books than most romance readers. Most of the time, they are pitched to me for review.
Case in point, this book, which is on sale now at Fictionwise: Touched By an Angel by James Trivers. Mr. Trivers emailed me with the blurb to his book to request a review. I explained that I didn’t have any room on my to-be-reviewed schedule, but that I wanted to reproduce his blurb here, and he agreed:
I find there is greater freedom into what you want to write with online fiction. You can go to darker places. I have a new ebook called “Touched By A Charlie’s Angel.” A bisexual hack writer sells a script to Charlie’s Angels and is invited to snort cocaine with Robin Doe, the newest angel, when the two-person party is crashed by a star-struck lesbian cop. To avoid being busted-they kill the cop, mince and dice the corpse and make it mulch for the actresses garden. The writer flees LA for the Mojave where he hides out from the law as a born-again Christian. Two years later, Robin Doe, emerges from rehab and after given a governor’s pardon (she is a celebrity who, after all, is friends with Jerry Brown) decides to do her Ninth Step with Barbara Walters on nationwide television. Upon doing so blows our hero’s cover. What he does to save himself-you have to read it to find out.
Say it with me now: 0_o?
I honestly read that paragraph three times to make sure I didn’t miss a plot point. “Darker places” doesn’t begin to cover it. Holy holy holy. Faster than you can say “star-struck lesbian cops” my perception of self publication changes.
But thinking about this pitch, and the many-layed cake of WTFery going on in there, made me think about the conversation I’d had about self-publishing, and how readers perceive it.
My perspective is someone skewed because I find out about most self-pub books either because they are pitched to me for review, or because an author has written online about going for self-publication instead of accepting a publishing contract. I have never to my knowledge stumbled upon a self-published book in a store, or encountered one outside of the confines on my inbox or my Google Reader. And I’m really curious about how you, a reader of Romance (the very best genre in the entire world! Without hyperbole! Of any kind! With or without star-struck lesbian cops!) encounter self-published books and what you think of them.
There is so much discussion about self-pubbing, from publisher standpoints, from author standpoints, from financial standpoints, and yet, while I read stories in online news articles about the mythological author who sold books out of the trunk of her car then got a six figure publishing deal, I’ve never actually seen said author, or the trunk of her car (and if it looks like mine, those books had to share space with a stroller, a few bottles of apple juice, and some spare wet wipes). Authors who ponder self-publication, digitally or in print, are facing a lot more competition from other books, both from publishing houses and from other self-publishing authors. I’m therefore really curious: how do you, as a reader of books, view self-published books, and what do you think of those you’ve seen – if you’ve seen any?
So: I have created… A SURVEY. Oh, I can hear the excitement from here. Try to contain yourself. I’m really curious how you as a reader of romance have encountered a self-published book – if you have – and what you thought. I’d so appreciate your input. As usual, my surveys are entirely amateur (I let the survey program do the math for me) and utterly unscientific. My science is tight, but that’s about it.
Please let me know your point of view, or share in the comments what you think. And if you are a star-struck lesbian cop, please, PLEASE leave a comment. OMG. PLEASE.
ETA: I have to take the survey offline to compile the results – but please feel free to continue to discuss in the comments!
Since my name came up here . . .
I’ll throw in my two cents. In the Way Back Machine (say, oh, 15 years ago) when I first heard about e-books, they were sold on floppy discs at local RWA chapter signings—autographed!. The publishing industry was still receptive to my work and I, like most other pubbed authors who were working, thought that a book on a floppy disc was a ridiculous, pathetic attempt to sell a book that NY wouldn’t touch with a poop scoop and a pair of rubber gloves. Um, actually my opinion about those days hasn’t changed. I’d sold the first book I ever wrote and didn’t receive my first rejection until about eight books into my career. About that time, everything began to get a little tighter and more uncomfortable. Enter the new age of online publishers, some of which folded up their tents in short order, taking their authors’ rights with them to bankruptcy court. Desperate writers would proclaim in a newsletter that they’d “sold” a book to one of these entities, when in fact, no money changed hands because most of these outfits didn’t pay an advance. Nothing was actually “sold.” Ellora’s Cave and Samhain have held on, but even at my lowest point, I still held out hope to get another traditional contract, agent, and publisher. I’d gotten my rights back on my first books, and two years ago decided I’d better get the rest of them back too. When I kept getting rejections from agents (sometimes after as long as a year!), I began to consider Kindle for my OOP titles. I wasn’t getting any younger and I wanted to work. I looked around at some of the indie stuff and saw incredibly bad covers, bad spelling, bad sentence structure, bad everything. I made my backlist available on Kindle and Smashwords—NOT WITHOUT some major bumps on my part since I was totally unfamiliar with this new media. I’ve since written and made available an indie-only new title, HOME BY MORNING. (I hired a freelance editor for that, just so you know.) This will be followed up by a sequel.
Yeah, there is a lot of crap out there right now—but I’m advising not to blow off every indie writer. Some have great talent and want to write a story about something besides vampires and erotica. Readers want something besides vampires and erotica. I’m having the best time of my writing career and I’m making more money than I ever did as a print author. This sector of the business is really in its infancy. (Autographed floppy discs were part of the Plastimagnetic Era that some archeologist might eventually discover.)
I guess I’ve used up my two cents and now owe Sarah about $5.00 here. 🙂 So I’ll close this by saying that in November, I will be giving away a new-generation Kindle on my web site so if you’re interested, stay tuned for details.
I worked in book retail for many years. Self Pub authors were viewed as vermin by most of the book sellers.
The rare exception was the self pub author who was really a writer perfecting their craft day after day. Most were just “the-publishing-world-does-not-understand-my-talent-and-I’m-too-busy-and-special-to-bother-to-learn-how-to-get-a-book-published-or-even-how-to-properly-write-one.”
I’ve read several self pub’d titles because I had to for my job. They were all awful. As a rule, the authors with the least amount of talent were usually the pushiest about insisting we carry their book. Far from convincing me to stock their books, we usually banned their titles from the shelves except for pre-paid customer orders.
Even years after leaving the retail book selling world, I still view self pub authors as lazy narcissists.
I have tons of self pubbed reference books, since the subjects I’m most interested in are often so small and niche-y that there’s be no point in a publisher putting out an edition.
Fiction? Not so much.
However…
I self published a book of my own that was far outside the genre I’m traditionally published in, and deemed unmarektable and a bad career move. When I tried to sell to an e-press, they didn’t want it either, since it wasn’t romance, paranormal, UF or erotica.
I am not getting rich. But I made enough to pay for a better cover, put it through another round of edits to solve formatting problems, and buy some advertising. Sales are going up. And I offer generous samples, so readers know they aren’t going to get burned.
In my spare, non contracted time, I am working on a sequel to the book that everyone told me would not sell, and a collection of essays and blog entries.
I am also following the careers of a bunch of self published writers, and planning to glut myself on samples and ebooks, with the purchase of a reader for Christmas. These people are outselling me. I want to know why. But I am pretty sure it has to do with quality of work, and not a naive audience.
Again, I’m not getting rich. But I am officially very doubtful about the ability of a small e-press to offer more than an author is willing to get for themselves, should they be willing to put the work into a project, edit, cover design, etc.
I definitely do not consider previously published books from traditional publishing companies self-published if the author starts publishing their back list after they get their rights back.
I think we have to treat them just as we do print books when they are reissued with a new cover. This really is just a book that is reissued except this time it’s in digital format. To call that self-publishing after the book has gone through publication through a traditional publishing company (professional editing, line editing etc) is a misnomer.
I’ve bought two because I knew the authors. Both were worth reading; neither would have succeeded in traditional publishing.
One was poetry about the author’s life. She’s had a very interesting life and is one of my role models; of course I bought it.
The other was from a guy who’s written several very good nonfiction books. He’s both studied and lived his subject matter, and they’re excellent, if not widely known. They were published traditionally. He wanted to write a semi-autobiographical novel (he changed names, the number of siblings he had, and added a major historical figure come back to life). First novel, not that good, poorly edited. But because it stemmed from his early life, it was very authentic and worth reading.
I look at what’s in hardback on my shelf and wonder if those same books would be published in today’s publishing world. Probably not. Sho-Gun, for example – which I loved. Long, wordy, involved and deep. Not your average read for your average reader. Anyone else agree that it would be a hard sell in today’s market? Then I wonder how many other great reads aren’t getting past the traditional publishers – which is why I’m willing to give self pubs a chance.
Yes, there’s a lot of crap out there. Anyone who’s been in a writing class or writing group (or participated at writing.com, for that matter) knows that. And a lot of that crap is now making its way into the world thanks to self publication and fairly easy distribution online. That said, traditional publishing has a bottom line they have to pay attention to, which means a book that’s really good but might not have a large audience or fit in a particular niche doesn’t get published because it won’t make enough money to support the bottom line. It comes down to whether you’re willing to mine for gold on your own or let someone else make the choice for you, a choice that is based largely on profit margins.
I do not have much to say about the world of self-publishing (never bought or read one that I am aware of). However, I wanted to let you know that while I do not qualify, my girlfriend is a (sometimes) star-struck lesbian who went through the police academy.
Close enough to be wary of the wood chipper. 😉
I’ve tried them, and won’t again for a while.
I got burned on Smashwords with my very first buy when I tried an indie author/publisher. I found a book that sounded good. No reviews on it at that point, so all I had to go on was the description which sounded good, tags, very nice cover, and decent excerpt, which I realize now was very selective and short. The cover and title were the only good things about the book. The author/pub should have invested some of the cover expense on an editor.
I was very disappointed because the blurb and tags didn’t match the content, and it was a wallbanging crapfest to boot. I haven’t bought anything by that publisher or author or Smashwords since. It was so poorly written my brain and eyes were fried.
For now, I’ll stay with traditionally published authors until my brain and eyes heal. Even free indies don’t appeal to me right now.
I needed to make a second post because I have purchased more Self-published books than I realized. I didn’t name the first book but the second is Naked Through the Snow (and Other Bits of Silliness) by Sailor Jim Johnston. Paperback, originally $10 from Quarterion Press. Amazon has some available used from $23.98, LOL.
I also owe an apology to the first author – he’d had the book proofread and eliminated the eight dot ellipses and excessive exclamation points, and the “mute” points problem was a different author altogether.
I must confess to a deep prejudice against self-published books. When you work in a library, you frequently encounter local “authors” who feel that you are obligated to purchase their books. In a high school library, alumni “authors” have an even greater sense of entitlement.
Logically, I know there must be some good stuff out there, but my encounters with the breed have all been negative. They’ve also been limited to print materials. I particularly loathe those who believe that young people are an eager, undiscriminating audience for bad didactic writing. My biggest gripe is that some of our alums have been published by standard publishers, big and small, and have been ignored because they are not as heavily into self-promotion as self-pubbed authors. There’s a reason it used to be called vanity press.
I entered Barnes & Noble to find a table with an author and books planted right by the front door. It was awkward to pass without being rude, and I’ve been one of those authors feeling awkward and so, after glancing very quickly at the cover and title to see that it wasn’t totally offputting, allowed the very confident author to engage me in conversation. The subject matter of her book was intriguing. I flipped through and then realized that this was not a traditionally published book, and it was crap.
I will admit it. I simply didn’t know how to put it down and walk on, and I bought the damned thing. Took it home, tried to read it, and by the third page had already closed it, never to open again. It ended up donated to some charity or another, for which I hope I am forgiven. I should have just tossed it. (Honestly, a 1940s private eye’s response to a situation is a straight-out-of-blogdom Grrrr. in his thoughts? Oh my.)
I still haven’t figured out how she got B&N to let her sell her self-published book there. It did not do their store any favors.
[Begin frustrated rant]
Self-publishing is not “indie publishing.” Self-publishing is publishing one’s own work. Indie publishing is done by independent publishers.
That may seem like an unnecessary quibble, but on behalf of the nearly 150 authors whose works we publish I assure you it isn’t.
When the two terms are used interchangeably, it becomes infinitely more difficult for authors published by small independent digital presses to be taken seriously. They are immediately treated as though they had, in fact, self-published, and all the various assumptions regarding quality are applied.
Digital publishing hasn’t only opened the gates to a flood of authors thinking DIY will maximize their income. It has also allowed people who think they know what they’re doing to offer themselves as editors, even though their actual experience in the field is all but nil.
As an aside, I will also note that, having read some of the books self-published on Kindle by established authors, whether backlist or original, the same problems listed here as affecting all self-published works are just as rampant.
Granted, as an editor I’m particularly sensitive to it, but nevertheless the statement made by one such author that experience as a published author relieves one of the necessity of an editor is hogwash.
It’s also frustrating for me when I read a self-published book and my reaction is how truly good it could have been had the author received proper editing support. What’s sad is I pick up far too many traditionally published books and have the same reaction.
@pooks: It’s my understanding that B&N gives their store managers some leeway in stocking books from local authors, even if the books are self-published or vanity-published.
I work with a group that puts on a Science Fiction convention, and every year we get requests from self- and vanity-pubbed authors asking to sell books, sign autographs, sit on programming, and so on. We have to turn them down. One reason is that we have so many authors with commercial presses (large and small) who want panel time, that we can afford to be selective.
Like the librarians and booksellers who have commented above, it seems the aggressive self-published authors aren’t doing the ones who know what they’re doing any favors.
@Julie
Thanks. I assumed as much. I just couldn’t figure out how any bookseller could take an even cursory glance at her book and think it was a good idea to allow her to sell it through their store, much less give her a table by the front door so she could address people both coming and going. I have to assume she was a relative.
As a reader who knows she’s going to have stuff to read no matter what happens in self or indie or trad pub (my TBR pile would probably last me for years, at this point), the stigma against self-publishing bothers me because it feels very much like the stigma that’s still attached to Romance from those who don’t read it or who are judging the entire genre by one (or three) horrible book(s) they picked up or heard about. There’s good stuff and absolute crapola published in all genres, and I wonder if the percentage (not the number of books, but the ratio) is similar across genres and modes of publishing.
Still, I do wish we could talk about self-publishing separate from the self-pubbed books any of us has encountered.
Clearly it’s NOT a process by which ANYONE can produce a quality product. Nor would/should every author want to go that route. Because acting as author AND publisher is an incredible responsibility, requiring many skills beyond simply writing a manuscript. Editing, cover design, formatting, marketing and promo—all of these functions and more a traditional publisher manages (or is supposed to, anyway) must be assumed by the author in a self-pub venue, even if (like many trad publishers these days) s/he farms them out.
But for an author who has those skills or knows how to effectively outsource them, why can they not act as publisher of their work without being seen as “vermin”? Why does shitty editing or cover design or marketing/promo from a big NY pub get a pass? IMO failures of publishing are failures of publishing, whether by a NY pub or a self-pubbed author. In fact, IMO there should be FAR LESS slack given to trad NY pubs that try to pass off badly edited or otherwise inferiorly published books.
Publishers are in the business to make money, and they demand an astonishing percentage of the author’s earnings (and value of their work) to do so. Self-pubbed authors who are seriously trying to market a book (as others have pointed out, there are many, many reasons to self-pub a book, from wanting physical objects to pass out to family members to being able to constantly update editions of reference works) want to retain the lion’s share of their book’s earnings and value. That seems completely logical to me, given the percentage of earnings and value an author cedes to a publisher (and these days, how much of the marketing and promo work is done by the author, anyway?).
It also seems completely logical to me that self-publishing needs to be taken more seriously by many of those who enter it, since publishing is a much different enterprise than writing. But at the end of the day, IMO bad publishing is bad publishing, and good publishing is good publishing, no matter whether it’s a NY pub or a self-pubbed author on Kindle. That many self-pubbed books are crappy IMO doesn’t—or shouldn’t—mean that self-publishing is a disreputable business, any more than Romance should be viewed as littering the bottom of the fiction barrel.
Wow, this one has a lot of comments!
Now I’ll add another one.
1. Have I ever read a self-published novel? Not to my knowledge, though I won’t swear to that. I’ve read lots of books of varying levels of quality.
2. Have I ever bought one? I don’t think so. There have been some places that I went (conventions & renaissance-faires) where I think there may have been self-published books, but they either did not appeal based on subject matter/cover/back cover description or I had no money at the time. I have some books on Kindle – it never occurred to me to check the publisher, just author, description and price. a) I have not read them all yet to be able to give an informed statement other than ‘it had a interesting description’ and b) I refuse to pay more for something in Kindle-format than I would for the same thing in paperback.
1) I do agree that an author re-releasing a previously published book/story without the traditional publishing companies involvement in the current go-round is NOT the same as a self-published story.
2) I do agree that with various factors including the recent economic down-turns, fewer new authors are being given traditional publishing opportunities. Each new author/book is an investment from the publishing company, and in the more recent times, all companies are thinking very carefully about investments, and wanting to be VERY sure that it will pay off for them. A new author is not such a guaranteed investment.
This means that many good stories by talented authors are NOT being given that contract with a real, established my-story-into-a-printed-book publishing company. Especially if the story in question isn’t easily categorized, easily marketed, and fitting nicely into a few niches and blurbs. Especially if it isn’t currently part of one of the big trends.
Does that mean that I think every story/author rejected is being pushed aside because an unknown name is a risk the company won’t take, and if their story could be easily classified as UF – leather-clad heroine in love triangle with (cross out as appropriate) vampire/shifter/fae/detective/rival/mercenary/wizard or historical romance with (cross out as appropriate) Nobility/kilts/bastard half brothers trying to steal inheritances/scandalous affairs/inheritances depending on marriages/plucky adventurous girls/gambling for inappropriate stakes? No.
Does that mean that I’d be willing to purchase a self-published book? Maybe. IF the subject matter appeals to me, IF the description sounds interesting, IF I could read a sample first before forking over some of my not-so-plentiful money. IF I had said money at the time. If the website didn’t make me leery if giving any information (not that I’m aware of any credit-card fraudsters attempting to scam credit information by pretending to sell e-books, but you have to be at least a little careful), and IF it was available in a format compatible with what I already have (which would mean printed or Kindle).
Yes, I’m sure that there is a vast quantity of bad self-published fiction out there in a range of classifications. Comparable to fanfic in that there will always be many, many people who’s writing is NOT the category/mood/character types that you enjoy reading, and that skill levels vary. With fanfic, many get better with practice (mine did – the stuff I first wrote, that I remember being quite pleased with at the time, sort of makes me cringe now. Reader comments about those early works (the dialog is stilted, your action sequences are clunky, make the reader feel the emotions) helped me know where & how to improve. My current stuff is much better than the early efforts.
Like many others, I’d be cautious about a self-published work, and also like many of the above, I’m a bit cautious about buying traditional printed books (most of which are presumably from established publishers) because not everything published will be to my taste. What leaves one reader shouting praises will make the next go ‘not too bad’ the next ‘oh my’ the next say ‘what? How did this get published?!?’ and another toss it against the wall and never finish and another not even have the interest to start. I do like the ability to compare to known (to me) authors and to see what people who’s reading tastes I know have to say. But I apply that to movies and fanfic – why wouldn’t I apply it to a self-published book?
But I can definitely see why someone would be upset at finding abundant spelling errors, grammatical problems, and inconsistencies. I don’t like finding those in my own forum postings – finding one in a fanfic of mine is frustrating. The idea of not looking over something that was an original work for publication (and having a few other people look over it as well, even if guilt tripping, calling on friendship, ect. is required) is mind-boggling to me. This is the way most people will receive their first impression of you – why wouldn’t you want it to be the best one you could possibly make? (and yes, some grammatical rules are relaxed or ignored for dialog. Speaking is different than writing.)
anti-spambot word is college29 – if these people had better than a 29% in college, they’d know that spelling, grammar and consistency count.
second try (my computer is having issues) is research29 – again, if they did the research…
What Robin said.
My day job: editor. I’ve gone through phases of wanting to be Moriah Jovan, but I’m not that good at design and my wrists hurt. There are many parts of this process to put out a quality, pleasing-to-read book, and I’ve chosen to specialize instead of trying to do it all (and Moriah, I know you specialize too).
As a self-employed person, one thing I’ve learned is that it’s hard to learn about the field when you’re working alone. Pitching self-pub as a way to start a career as a writer is a little like teaching to swim by throwing you in the deep end of the pool.
I work for small and niche publishers, so perhaps I have more tolerance for self-pub because I see that there are small and niche audiences looking for something they don’t get from the nationwide best-seller list. Readers have a thousand different reasons for picking up a book, just as writers have a thousand different reasons for writing one, and I don’t think it’s useful to globally condemn one or another without considering whether the book meets any of those specific goals.
That excerpt didn’t sound so bad to me. I recently read about a book about hermaphrodite gunslingers in the wild west having a last stand in a town where the residents have TVs for heads (um, before TV’s were invented?)
It was by a trad publisher, and in my opinion sounds far worse than the book quoted above.
In the passed two months I have read a lot of (free) indie books over at Smashwords. Some were shit, others were fantastic. Today (it’s my birthday today) I got an e-reader device.
Before I got it I wasn’t willing to pay for e-books (any e-books, not just self pub) but now I am willing… and I have a list of about 25 must have e-books by self publishing authors.
A self-publishing author I know recently told me she spends $80 per hour on cover art. I know self-pub authors who have spent $700 getting their books edited. I know of one self pub author who made it into the top 25 of ALL books on Amazon.
I’m putting my book out self-pubbed this month. It isn’t a romance, so probably won’t appeal to you guys. I come here because I like to read paranormal romances, not because I want to write them.
If my book is phenomenally successful and a big six publisher offers me a publishing deal, I will turn them down. You can believe me or not, but I don’t write for the money, the fame or whatever else and, honestly, publisher’s can’t offer me the things I want.
I have friends who have published with small publishers. These friends are good writers but they’re not so good at business. Not everyone is, and they took the path best suited to them. On the other hand, I studied business at college and I live in a country that seriously rewards entrepreneurs (for example, the gov. gave me a completely free website because I started a company. And they’ve offered me some very good, heavily subsidised deals which I am currently considering).
Small publishers can’t offer me a single thing I can’t get for myself.
In response to those who have been burned before, I would ask… when? If it was 2+ years ago, you may want to reconsider your opinions.
Self-pub e-books are usually about $2.99. The most expensive are $4.99. Traditionally published e-books are $14.99.
Self-pub e-books are often well-edited and with professionally designed covers.
They are often by authors who really can write.
More and more authors who could be traditionally published are putting their work out themselves. They sell less copies but get much higher royalties, and their e-books will be available forever.
Sure, some folk are sticking together any old crap and publishing, but others seriously see this as the only competent business move they could make. I know self pubbed authors who self pub as a full-time job and earn enough from that to have a livable wage.
Course, there’s a lot of shit that’s going to make you wish you were blind, too. But that’s life…
Ann Marie, yes, you’re absolutely right. I specialize in ebook formatting and, while it’s not the majority of my business, interior print design.
I farm out editing to a brilliant editor (who edited Stay), and cover design to whichever artist I know who fits my client’s needs. I discovered through trial and error that I DESPISE doing covers for anyone but myself. I don’t have the patience to edit others’ work and don’t have the distance necessary to edit my own.
I’ll even go so far as to say The Proviso (even though it has a lot of fans) needs another edit. I just didn’t have enough money to do it at the time. When I get around to it, I’ll do a second edition.
As for the “lazy narcissist” comment, well… I just don’t know what to say to that.
Is it lazy to spend three years, almost 18 hours a day, thousands of dollars trying to build a publishing company and the 1,000 true fans? Or is it just being weary of the query/reject hamster wheel?
Is it narcissistic to think my stuff’s good enough to put out for public acceptance or rejection? Arrogance? Mere confidence? Or is it a willingness to hold one’s breath, jump off the cliff, and go directly to readers for them to decide?
I know of no other entrepreneurial endeavor that engenders this level of blanket disdain.
Argh. You know what? Refusing to even try another self-pub book because you read one or two that sucked, is like refusing to eat meals served on white china because you got food poisoning once off a meal served on a white plate. The mode of delivery doesn’t make something suck. Nor is ‘Smashwords’ a publisher, responsible for the overall quality. It’s a distributor. Do you boycott Walmart just because you bought one brand there that you didn’t like? No.
Yes. And as Chris Kelly said “Small publishers can’t offer me a single thing I can’t get for myself. ” My experiences with three small ‘indie’ presses have been entirely negative – incompetent, unprofessional and downright nasty owners wanting to do minimal editing and get a maximum cut from my work, for doing less than I would expect to do putting out a book myself (and before you say, oh well, your book wasn’t very good, I’ll say that they have been extremely well reviewed, and one was picked up by another epress – and sold very well – after the first press owner threw a temper tantrum. My sin? Objecting to his *typesetter* doing on the fly edits, ‘removing many adverbs’, in the *typesetting* process. Yes, that’s quality editing right there.) I would rather set fire to my manuscripts than ever submit to a small press again.
However, not all small presses are the same, and I wouldn’t refuse to buy a book from a small press just because I know of three which are utter fuckups. But I’ve stopped buying paper books completely from big and small publishers because the product is so often incompetently edited and indifferently written. Even the more successful and reputable epresses don’t offer consistent editing standards, and it’s immensely frustrating to pay money for a so-called pro-published book that still contains a multitude of line errors, egregious POV switches, and flaccid prose. Don’t tell me that there aren’t mountains of crap in the pro world, because there are. At least self-pub books don’t charge a premium for rubbish editing.
Look, I won’t convince anyone who has a prejudice against self-pub books to try them, no matter what I say – and that’s their loss. But I’m so immensely irritated that most all we hear are blanket statements about how awful and unprofessional the books are, and the experiences of those who’ve read good self-pubbed books are ignored. I’d like to see some reader recs of books they’re read and enjoyed, because this ‘self-pub sucks and the authors are all delusional’ gets really old. Self publication is like Print On Demand. It’s a way of getting books to market. It’s not a genre.
Which is even more interesting when you think about how many “inventors” start their own companies to market the product they’ve created (Apple comes immediately to mind). When these companies fail, no one says, “See, look what scum these inventors are thinking they can SELL their own work!” Although clearly not everyone who creates something is suited to selling it, either.
I do wonder how strong the psychology of endorsement in publishing is, though. A publisher is basically putting its name on a book and saying it approves. The higher status the publisher, the more that recommendation can mean (assuming one pays attention to these things, of course). It doesn’t matter that the publisher is merely acting as agent for the author, that they are looking to make money on books that sell, whether or not the “publisher” (as if the publisher were a person and not a corporate entity separate from the single editor who acquired the manuscript) loves the book.
The perception that someone is standing at the quality-control gate seems strong, despite the objective evidence we can all point to that a third party publisher does not guarantee a high quality product (or even a product for which everyone would set the quality at the same level). The psychology of the third party publisher is still very powerful, it seems, regardless of the fact that, as Ann Somerville said above, publishing is “a way of getting books to the market,” not the core creative content itself. Which is not to say that the vehicle isn’t of substantial importance (editing, especially, is critical in so many ways that can substantially and substantively affect the creative content), but it’s still a vehicle of the market.
Robin, I’m thinking you’re on to something with the “psychology of endorsement” comment. I think it’s difficult for some readers to separate their own negative experiences with self-published books from their concept and understanding as self publication as an industry/business decision because (a) as it stands now, there isn’t a lot that can be done to review all the self-pubbed books out there (we’d never sleep!) and (b) the reader’s understanding of the industry (blanket statement ahoy) rests almost entirely on the book, and not how it arrived in the reader’s hands.
So there are few curators or gatekeepers or key masters or ghostbusters out there for self pubbed books, and there’s a lot of judgment against the self-pubbed or the venue of sale (e.g. Smashwords) resting on one bad experience.
Add to that the somewhat crazed hubris of some self pubbed authors, the ones who pretty much tackle you and maybe even slime you with some green booger-looking ghost to get you to buy their book, and there’s a lot of OMGHELLNO reaction that results.
It’s not optimal and it doesn’t work well at present for a critical discussion of self-pub as an option for some, but I do think it is an understandable reaction. I also believe that much like the confusion between digital pub and vanity pub has (Oh Lord I Hope) been put to rest, the different methods through which authors self-publish (to hire editor or not to hire editor, that is a bit question) will help in part define quality books from books that make you want to mulch your garden with star-crazed lesbian cops.
Please note :I do not condone such mulching techniques. Not only is that a felony but humans make crap mulch, as some have already pointed out.
What’s so interesting to me, Sarah, is that readers would pay so much attention to differences among publishers. Because until I was reviewing, I sure as hell didn’t.
While I completely see how authors would acknowledge and value that gatekeeping function (and I think that’s an interesting phenom, too—the way publishers are perceived to have so much more power than content creators!), as well as booksellers, but it surprises me a bit coming from readers. Is it just a more knowledgeable and aware cohort of readers we’re dealing with, is it a function of reader loyalty to authors (i.e. Nora Roberts fans will know that Penguin pubs her books, etc.), or something else?
Like has the awareness increased as the digital market has emerged (although I’m thinking that may be more responsible for the positive reader comments, with recommendations, I’m seeing here)? Or is it something else entirely?
If readers objecting to self-published books is so objectionable, who’s going to start reviewing the self-published books?
The only time I buy a book without reading a review is when the author has a track record with me. I also own more reading material than I will ever get around to reading. If I’m not willing to waste time choosing traditionally published books serendipitously, why would I do it for self-published books where the gems are even harder to find?
My perception is that publishing has a slush pile. Traditional publishing weeds through the slush pile and self-publishing expects readers to do it.
At one time there was a site that reviewed POD books. I think the proprietor gave up because there were so many books, and so many of them were bad beyond belief.
Fact: the success of Ellora’s Cave and the popularity of erotica and erotic romance in ebook format has given birth to a plethora of small ebook publishers whose main focus is in that area.
Many of these are run by people with no publishing experience of any kind, except perhaps for having worked as an editor or in some other capacity for another ebook publisher. Others are authors who were unhappy with their publisher and started out self-publishing, then expanded to include additional authors.
However, as Ann said, not all small presses are the same. There are many who are just as professional as any larger publisher. The size of the company has nothing to do with the professionalism of those who operate it.
As for the bias against self-publishing—and, frankly, digital publishing in general—it’s basis is simple. Those who struggled for years to get an agent, then struggled more years till they signed that first major contract, resent that there are authors who opted for another route.
So, they denigrate the publishers and the publishing method by issuing a blanket dismissal that the books thus produced are badly written/poorly edited/etc. because you aren’t really a professional unless you’ve “paid your dues.”
I know this because I’ve had traditionally published writers tell me in so many words. They aren’t even cognizant of how they’re insulting me and all my authors, who work very hard to ensure what comes off the presses or the server farm is as good as we can make it.
The reasons behind the loathing that is directed at self-published or Indie published authors are complex. There are a lot of different points of view regarding the process, and all sides have valid arguments. It does astonish me, however, that so many people seem to take it personally when authors decide to go it on their own.
Reviews have been mentioned several times in these comments. It is very hard for me to buy a book these days that does not have at least a few reviews. I’ve been burned very badly more than once, ironically enough by traditionally published authors, because I trusted their names and didn’t research the books in question. However, I can say that I have never been burned by an Indie book, as there are so many resources available now with which to do research, not the least of which is Smashwords’ 50% sample availability. If nothing else, I can email the author and ask them to send me a sample if one is not available. That’s one of the small perks of the authors not being hidden behind twelve layers of agents, assistants, publishers and the like. I’m new to the whole idea of self-publishing, so I don’t know what it has been like for readers in times past, but these days, there is no excuse for getting burned – the resources are out there, and pretty readily available to weed out the good from the bad. In most cases, it is as easy to find out about an Indie book as it is to find info on a trad. pubbed.
There has been a popular misconception that Indie authors trade reviews. Um, no, we don’t as a general rule. That behavior is frowned upon. It’s considered bad form, smarmy and very unprofessional. Reviews for Indies are hard to come by – we don’t have the traditional routes available to us, since we don’t have a free pass (a.k.a. publisher’s name behind us). Yes, there are self-published authors out there who pay for reviews or who get their friends and family to write reviews for them, but there are a lot of us who depend on our readers to be honest and share their feelings on various websites – Amazon, Smashwords, etc. As I mentioned before, if I write crap I want to know. So far, no one has told me that my work is crap, but a lot of people whom I do not know have said otherwise. Given how upset folks become when they encounter a bad self-pubbed book, I have to think someone would have said something by now.
If you, dear reader, are firmly set against self-publishing or Indie authors, or whatever tag you want to reference us as, you will never cross over and explore the new authors who are up and coming, rising through the ranks, the Amazon sales numbers and headed on the path to success. That is a very sad thing, in my mind. As someone who loves to read, I wouldn’t deny myself the opportunity to find new writers simply because they don’t have the stamp of NY on the spines of their books.
It has for me. I’ve bought some real stinkers of e-books, some of which actually show up on my e-reader as Word documents. I’ve read some really fantastic ones. I’ve started paying attention to publishing companies, because the fantastic ones seem to be coming from the same publishers. For example, Dreamspinner Press (the books I’ve read so far, anyway) has good writing, good editing, EXCELLENT formatting. By contrast (I’d name names, but I can’t remember at the moment), one book I read was purported to be an Adobe ePub, but was so very not. On every single page, the first sentence would start, jump to the next, and then finish off at the end of the line.
ItAdded to the fact that every page filled half the screen, so Iwas kind of like this, and quite irritating. had to turn the page every paragraph, I ended up just too irked to enjoy the story.
@Ann Somerville: I didn’t say I totally refuse to try another indie author or pub ever again, just not right now. Maybe in the future.
If someone rec’d a “great” book by an indie pub’d author, and I was assured that there was some good quality control happening, I might read it. I’m just not going to actively seek them out on my own—right now. I don’t disdain all indie pub’d authors or small pubs. I read a lot, and am open to new authors. I’m not slamming ALL doors due to being burned that time. But I definitely won’t buy anything else by that author or publisher again. Live and learn.
One HUGE reason I requested my rights back for the three contemporary romance books I have published with Cerridwen is so I can offer them myself through Smashwords at a price I set. Currently they are *way* overpriced. Who pays more than $10 for a digital book from a largely unknown author? NO ONE. I want the right to offer the book for much, much less (a reasonable price, gasp!), offer the book in print (which is where most of the vanilla contemporary market is), and collect the majority of the royalty myself as well. All of these books have received very good reviews so it makes sense to me to do this at this time. Now I can only hope that people won’t immediately dismiss them as “crap” because they no longer have an Official Publisher’s stamp of approval.
Jennyfer—
Do you not intend to state that they are re-released, previously published by…? There would be no reason for confusion. I think people using re-published books in this discussion are getting caught up in a straw dog. It’s not the same thing and would not be seen as the same thing unless the author neglected to put it’s earlier publishing history in the description.
… its earlier publishing history.
Sorry for the typo.
@ pooks – I suppose I will do so now – especially after this enlightening comment thread. I’ll just have to hope that the reviews will transfer and people will be willing to give them a shot, in spite of being re-self-published.
The novel I published completely independently? I guess I’ll have to wait and see on that one.
Jenyfer—
I guess I continue to be confused by people claiming the “self-published” label when their book was traditionally published. It’s not the same, just as indie-publishing is not the same, which is part of the point of this thread, right?
But why do you need to review ‘all’? The number of self-pubbed romance novels is relatively small, and all you’d have to do would be to open up a post for suggestions in the genre you want to read in. For example I’ve already given you several good tips for excellent self-pubbed m/m authors (and here’s another I forgot to mention – Jordan Castillo Price http://jcpbooks.com/), and I’m sure het lovers could do the same. Given how few of your readers seem to have tried and liked self-pubbed books, the ultimate number of recs from which to choose a few to review would be pretty small.
It’s not an unmanageable task, is all I’m saying. Most review sites just won’t touch self-pubbed at all, or conflate self-pubbed with previously pubbed/resissued and concentrate on the latter. There’s no reason why they have to, or why the craziness of some self-pubbed authors should affect what you choose to review.
I’m not saying, by the way, that you have some unique duty to review self-pubbed books at all. I’m just pointing out how it could be done, if you were interested.
@pooks – I will re-publish three previously (currently) published romances I have with Cerridwen, but also recently self-published a women’s fiction novel on my own so I have both situations to manage.
As for reviews, even if the only people who reviewed a book were the ones who’d read it – like at Fictionwise, Amazon, etc – it would be helpful. I know that isn’t a foolproof system either, but it would be more helpful than nothing at all, especially in conjunction with a generous excerpt.
@Sarah – I hope this info is okay to share – if not, I’m sorry!
I’ve been following this thread since it started and I’ve noticed a lot of talk about the lack of review venues for self-published romance novels. In an effort to help the authors who need reviews, and the readers who want as much info on a self-published book as possible before they’ll consider buying – here’s a list of romance sites that reviewed my self-published dark paranormal romance novel:
Coffee Time Romance – coffeetimeromance.com
Bitten By Books – bittenbybooks.com (they only review paranormal)
Romance Junkies – romancejunkies.com
PNR ParaNormal Romance – paranormalromance.org
Romance In The Back Seat – romanceinthebackseat.com
Mrs. Giggles – mrsgiggles.com (She has a special POD/SP section – I didn’t request the review from her, it just showed up one day – but she does review self-pubbed romance.)
I should tell you that I was very upfront with the above sites (aside from Mrs. Giggles), and opened my review request by immediately telling them I was a self-published romance author. I let them know I understood the stigma attached to self-pubbed books, and then I invited them to read the free chapters on my website before they made a decision (unless they asked for the e-book to be uploaded with the request). Luckily, each site e-mailed me and said they were happy to review the book. However, as with most review sites, each site above reserves the right not to review any book they receive – but none openly state that they won’t review a self-published book.
So, for you self-published romance authors, I’d say give these sites a shot. I had a really good experience with all of them. And for you lovely romance readers, if you run across a self-pubbed book you think you might like but want more info about before spending your hard earned cash – check out these sites. Most of them review a lot of small press and e-press books too, as well as all the major traditionally published releases.
Hope this info helps!
Being the author of “Touched By A Charlie’s Angel” I find this self publishing debate intriguing but in my case, it doesn’t really apply to my ebook. “Touched By A Charlie’s Angel” is not self published, it was published by Club Lighthouse publishing ebook publisher who edits and markets my work. By the way, I have been published by Prentice Hall, Harper Collins, Avon and in the U.K. by Quartet Books.
In response to the previous comment, I have to wonder why this blog is called SMART bitches.
I mean, come on Sarah, as every single self-publishing naysayer in the comments above has pointed out, self-publishing books are EASY to spot.
Unless you knew it was traditionally published, and you were fucking with peoples heads in order to challenge traditionally held self-publishing views.
So, you’re either dumb or devious. I wonder which…
Wow! How’s that for a punch-line! It WASN’T self-published!!!!!!!!