I had a long conversation recently about self-publishing and how readers perceive it. I personally occupy a weird space: I am a blogger, reader, reviewer, published author, and with every month that I run this site, I learn more about publishing than I knew when the site began over 5 years ago. I interact differently with self-published books than most romance readers. Most of the time, they are pitched to me for review.
Case in point, this book, which is on sale now at Fictionwise: Touched By an Angel by James Trivers. Mr. Trivers emailed me with the blurb to his book to request a review. I explained that I didn’t have any room on my to-be-reviewed schedule, but that I wanted to reproduce his blurb here, and he agreed:
I find there is greater freedom into what you want to write with online fiction. You can go to darker places. I have a new ebook called “Touched By A Charlie’s Angel.” A bisexual hack writer sells a script to Charlie’s Angels and is invited to snort cocaine with Robin Doe, the newest angel, when the two-person party is crashed by a star-struck lesbian cop. To avoid being busted-they kill the cop, mince and dice the corpse and make it mulch for the actresses garden. The writer flees LA for the Mojave where he hides out from the law as a born-again Christian. Two years later, Robin Doe, emerges from rehab and after given a governor’s pardon (she is a celebrity who, after all, is friends with Jerry Brown) decides to do her Ninth Step with Barbara Walters on nationwide television. Upon doing so blows our hero’s cover. What he does to save himself-you have to read it to find out.
Say it with me now: 0_o?
I honestly read that paragraph three times to make sure I didn’t miss a plot point. “Darker places” doesn’t begin to cover it. Holy holy holy. Faster than you can say “star-struck lesbian cops” my perception of self publication changes.
But thinking about this pitch, and the many-layed cake of WTFery going on in there, made me think about the conversation I’d had about self-publishing, and how readers perceive it.
My perspective is someone skewed because I find out about most self-pub books either because they are pitched to me for review, or because an author has written online about going for self-publication instead of accepting a publishing contract. I have never to my knowledge stumbled upon a self-published book in a store, or encountered one outside of the confines on my inbox or my Google Reader. And I’m really curious about how you, a reader of Romance (the very best genre in the entire world! Without hyperbole! Of any kind! With or without star-struck lesbian cops!) encounter self-published books and what you think of them.
There is so much discussion about self-pubbing, from publisher standpoints, from author standpoints, from financial standpoints, and yet, while I read stories in online news articles about the mythological author who sold books out of the trunk of her car then got a six figure publishing deal, I’ve never actually seen said author, or the trunk of her car (and if it looks like mine, those books had to share space with a stroller, a few bottles of apple juice, and some spare wet wipes). Authors who ponder self-publication, digitally or in print, are facing a lot more competition from other books, both from publishing houses and from other self-publishing authors. I’m therefore really curious: how do you, as a reader of books, view self-published books, and what do you think of those you’ve seen – if you’ve seen any?
So: I have created… A SURVEY. Oh, I can hear the excitement from here. Try to contain yourself. I’m really curious how you as a reader of romance have encountered a self-published book – if you have – and what you thought. I’d so appreciate your input. As usual, my surveys are entirely amateur (I let the survey program do the math for me) and utterly unscientific. My science is tight, but that’s about it.
Please let me know your point of view, or share in the comments what you think. And if you are a star-struck lesbian cop, please, PLEASE leave a comment. OMG. PLEASE.
ETA: I have to take the survey offline to compile the results – but please feel free to continue to discuss in the comments!
Most of the self-published stuff I have come across is digital and I suspect I have probably read a few novellas that have been self published but I’m not sure because I don’t really check the publisher.
I would say a lot of the time what keeps me from purchasing is the god awful cover art and titles. I’m not going to lie, if the cover art is really terrible, I am going to judge a book by its cover.
Twice—one is a book my sister wrote (non-fiction, not presently intended for wide distribution but she’s thinking about it for the future) and another is a book written by a friend of a member of a book discussion club I’m in (which, given some intelligent editing, could probably have sold to a publisher—the bones were there).
In both cases, they considered going the regular publisher route and went Nah, not worth the trouble at this time.
I’ve read self published books, but it started because Sarah Frantz recc’ed the author. I can’t remember if at the time Matthew Haldeman Time had traditionally pubbed books. I’d love to know how she found him. Mostly the author has to be recommended from reviewers I trust or I have to find a sufficient amount of information to know I’m not wasting my time/money. The other thing that will convince me is if the author has traditionally published works. Then I tend to assume the publisher declined the self published works for reasons other than the author not being able to plot or write well enough.
WHOA. That book blurb makes me go “baroo?” – in the bad way.
Like saltypepper mentioned above, the only self-pubbed books I’ve read are by actor/writer Wil Wheaton. Strictly non-fiction, very well-edited, and utterly hilarious.
As a self-published author, I’ve purchased and read many self-published books, all of them Kindle ebooks. I’ve enjoyed many of them. I will tell you that I only buy a book once I’ve read the sample and it’s grabbed my interest, and I can see it’s quality writing. Have I grabbed samples of self-published work and not liked it? Sure. I’ve seen some real stinkers. But those don’t usually sell, and don’t get much attention. The books I have enjoyed (off the top of my head) have been Thin Blood, by Vicki Tyley; Deed to Death, by D.B. Henson; 33 AD, by David McAfee; Portal, by Imogen Rose; and right now I’m reading My Blood Approves, by Amanda Hocking. All very good books. If you like YA romance, Portal and My Blood Approves are must reads. Don’t judge a book by who published it, you’ll be missing out on some great books.
As a reader:
Such a great discussion. I am so mixed on this. The free marketeer in me *wants* to believe that the cream always rises to the top, that we are not all pawns in Emperor Franzen’s Evil PR Empire, that artists are free. Then I sag and start humming Joni Mitchell: “That was just a dream some of us had.”
As a writer:
This past June/July I used Amazon DTP as a beta-reading platform for family and friends (“I hope you will read my book and let me know what you think,” and figured if I sold a few, all the better), meanwhile fully intending to query agents and publishers with a version of that book. (True Confession: I also sent an email about it to you, SB Sarah, which I have been meaning to ask you to destroy. Please. I live in fear of being your next object lesson.) While at RWA Orlando I spoke briefly with Angela James of Carina about the DTP-as-beta and she said (I’m paraphrasing) “Don’t.” She said as long as I had not marketed it (does that email to SB Sarah count as marketing, I still wonder?) I could pull it from Amazon and still *try* to pitch it to print publishers. I scurried out of the conference room and “unpublished” right then from my iPhone on the window sill of the Dolphin Resort. I realize now how much I want the total experience (or failure from a valiant attempt) of a traditional agented/edited/published author. (Good thoughts on same at http://tiny.cc/at2dr Jane Friedman’s interview with Johanna Harness, creator of the #amwriting Twitter hashtag).
That said (one of my least favorite transitional phrases, sorry) if you have the time, energy, and focus to dedicate to marketing you and your book, have at it. (But most writers need that time for writing.)
As a capitalist:
I do not think re-released backlist titles should enter into this discussion: they’ve been professionally edited, marketed, etc., and if the publisher is foolish enough to relinquish possession of their rights, then of course the author should take advantage of name-fame and, for lack of a better phrase, re-publish.
Lastly, I have never purchased a self-published book, but I would on a friend’s recommendation, minced star-struck lesbians excluded—no matter how multi-layed (one of my favorite typos in a while)!
SORRY to be so long-winded!!!
It would be for me. I would consider that more of a re-issue than a self-pub. I recently picked up some of Karen Ranney’s OOP backlist at Smashwords that way. But, having read and liked Ranney, I already had a pretty good idea of what I was getting.
I’ve bought a few self-published books. I have seen the proverbial woman selling books out of the trunk of her car, if you revise that to man selling books out of a box on a subway platform—there are a handful of people hawking books on the NYC subway, and I know of one (his name escapes me right now) who sold a book to a curious editor and got a contract out of it. Or you have authors like Ann Herendeen who self-published a novel that was later bought by HarperCollins. So, stranger things have happened.
I’ll buy a self-published book if a) it got a really positive review somewhere, b) if someone I know wrote it (a good friend of mine who is an absolutely brilliant writer self-published a book of essays a few years ago), or, apparently c) if it looks interesting and is priced reasonably? I was browsing Amazon last week and stumbled upon a self-pubbed book that looked good based both on the title and the blurb (the cover art was not so great, but I’ve seen a lot worse) and I wound up buying it because it was $0.99 for the Kindle, so I felt like it was a low-risk purchase. (I haven’t read it yet, so I can’t speak to its quality.)
I have a pile of my own biases, as both someone who has worked in the editorial department of a Big Scary New York Publisher and as a writer who chose to publish with smaller presses, but it’s a good option for some writers. Just to devil’s advocate, I know a woman who tried the usual agent route, failed to get a contract, and decided to self publish, and she’s completely happy with the experience and even sold a few books. Some of the criticism leveled at self-published fiction is certainly valid, but there are some diamonds in the rough, too.
I haven’t seen any hate just a bunch of don’t like. But I really just wanted to say there’s a HUGE difference between reading a story for free that has merit but could use some polish and PAYING for it.
As a self-published author and fanfic writer, I blushingly put myself forward here.
My motives for self-publishing are two: first, I don’t want to wait and work and wait and hunt for an agent and wait and proof and wait and wait to see my book in print, and second, there is little market for my style (“sweet” Regencies). My self-pub Regencies have now been published by a commercial ebook company, which gives them a bit more validity. And for those of you with grammar gripes, my ebook publisher returned my first manuscript with very, very few changes.
That said, being a self-pub/fanfic writer, I have cruised Lulu (where my books are) and ff.net a lot, and I have to say that, well, to put it bluntly, there is a lot of crap out there. Yeah. True.
Obviously having no prejudice against self-pubbed books, I do buy them, and I use the exact same criteria that I do for traditionally published books. That is, I buy if (a) I can read a sample (I am always lingering in bookstores, reading the first chapters), or (b) someone I trust recommends it.
Given the way the publishing industry works, and the pervasiveness of the Internet, I am really hoping that self-pubs and ebooks continue to grow in value, stature, and volume. “Indie” does not always equal bad! Just… a lot of the time. Yeah.
(By the way, “Eragon” was a self-pub sold out of the trunk of a car.)
I’ve purchased a few self-published books, whose content and grammar/spelling/punctuation has ranged from average to excellent, and whose design and layout has ranged from dismal to very good. However, these were all non-fiction books—a home organization guide, two sock knitting pattern books, a genealogy book, etc. I’d read the person’s website and knew they could write essays on the topic, or I’d seen several strong reviews from reliable reviewers, or I knew that the book would contain information I needed; I knew the books would probably be worth my money.
I own one novel that I believe was originally self-published (no, I’m not counting anything published before 1900), but the edition I have is the one that was picked up by a Big 6 publisher.
I might buy self-published fiction that hasn’t made the leap to a traditional publisher, but it would have to have stellar reviews from sources I trust, or be by a person who I knew could write a competent story (because I was already familiar with their previously published fiction, or because I’d read their fanfic or a free original story). I’ve done slushpile reading; I know there’s a lot of writers who think their story’s publishable when it isn’t even readable. I’m not willing to spend any of my money on slush, and if I want to spend my limited free time looking through slush, I’ll hie over to a fanfic archive.
I started to fill out the survey, but remembered the only self-pubbed romance I’ve read was handed to me by the author as a gift. It wasn’t bad, but it could have greatly benefited from a good edit.
I will admit that I am probably prejudiced against self-published books. Like many people have mentioned, there is a lot out there that’s awful. There is also very good stuff, I’m sure, but I’m not willing to trawl through the “slush pile” to find it. I’d rather someone else did that for me, and established publishing houses do that quite nicely as far as I’m concerned.
My tastes are fairly mainstream, so I’m not looking for wild, out of the way plots and I like something to be well edited. I have plenty to read already, so don’t often take a risk on new authors (sorry, new authors) no matter how they are published.
I don’t think I’ve ever bought a self-published novel. I have bought some short stories – but those were from an established author who was telling some extra tales in her worlds where she doesn’t currently have contracts for full books. I’ll happily do that.
If some of my old, favourite authors self-published futher books in favourite series that have been dropped by their publishers, I’d buy them (so long as I knew they were well edited).
If a self-pubbed book came highly recommended by people I trust, the plot interested me and I was promised it was well edited, I’d be willing to give it a try.
But just scanning the shelves/online bookshop, not it isn’t likely.
Will totally admit that I am prejudiced against self-pub after being burned on several purchases.
Back in the early days of Amazon, I found these books with some amazing themes that I never saw on the bookshelves at Barnes & Noble. One was an ancient egypt time travel! One was about the Highwayman but he was a ghost sexxoring up the heroine! All kinds of strange and bizarre paranormal plots (back before there was a paranormal boom) and all with very plain covers and $20 a pop for a trade paperback. me being a great ignorant fool who had no idea who ‘Xlibris’ was, I happily purchased these books by the DOZENS.
They all sucked. Sucked haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard. I found out after the fact that they were self pubbed and I felt ripped off.
So no, I won’t try self-pubbed stuff anymore.
I was once handed a book on the subway in NY. It went on my shelf and I never cracked it. Still haven’t, but mostly because I read historical and it is contemporary. That said, I have read two excellent self-pub’d books The Proviso and Stay by Moriah Jovan. I’m no editor, but I don’t remember anything that bothered me. The plots are wonderful! I love her books! I am waiting with baited breath for her next self release, Magdalen.
So yeah, there is certainly a lot of crap out there in self publishing, but honestly the same can be said in traditional as well. With epublishing I am far more open to self pub’d works than ever, but an excerpt or a strong and trusted recommendation is required.
I have read a good number of self-published books this year, and with the exception of one not being my cup of tea, I can’t say I disliked any of them. In fact, compared to the traditionally published books I’ve read recently, some of them were better. Yes, there are some crappy self-published books. But there are also some crappy traditionally published books.
It occurred to me while I was reading all this that much of the world thinks genre fiction is crap, and more of the world thinks romance is crap, and even more of the world thinks small press romance is crap, and still more of the world thinks erotic romance is crap, so I guess that puts self pub at the bottom of the crap heap. If it’s true that many self pub authors point at trad pub books as being the true crap (the self pub authors I know don’t, but I don’t know many), it’s kind of a crap snake eating its own head thing. I guess we all need someone to point at as being crappier than thou.
I have bought two self-pubbed books to date and was disappointed by both. One had spelling/grammar errors left and right – and was therefore just a pain to read. I felt embarrassed for the author and there is *absolutely no way* this book could have been published through a traditional publisher.
The other one did not flow at all…it was all over the place…and so again, it was difficult to read. Reviewers said the same thing.
I bought them both for the topics and out of genuine interest, and ironically, both books had an editor name on them, so I thought they had been edited. When I opened the books, I realized that these must not have been professional editors. They were probably friends.
Both books were extra pricey because they were self-pubbed, so I ended up feeling ripped off and annoyed. I always check publisher names now and am very careful about buying a self-pubbed book because honestly folks, it’s a gamble.
I realize that there are good writers out there who are probably self-pubbing…trying to be independent of the publishing industry. I respect you’re ambition, but you have a challenge on your hands because self-pubbed books are risky business.
I have been guilted into buying only a handful of selfpublished books and I have always been disappointed. I no longer buy them because I’d rather have nothing to say than have nothing nice to say in the long run.
Now, it’s been a while, and things, as you say, are changing faster than you can keep up with them in the self-publishng world, so perhaps I might be persuaded to purchase in the future, but I’d have to be guaranteed in advance that an actual editor was involved somewhere along the line.
I’m buying some self published digital books. Some have been excellent—whatever one thinks about Ann Somerville’s opinions, I enjoy her writing quite a bit. Which says a lot because I’ve decided I am not a m/m fan. Let me also jump on the Vicki Tyley bandwagon. I’m current reading Thin Blood and have Sleight Malice lined up next. It’s currently only 99 cents on Amazon.
I’ve also found three other authors that I really enjoy who self published on Kindle. None have nearly as many editing errors as the last Dorchester published novel I read.
What really puts me off is if the book was “published” by PublishAmerica. I don’t like it when I feel the author was taken advantage of by the publisher. I also now avoid POD books from small presses. I have bought some POD books that were put out by small presses that will remain nameless because I can’t remember any of them although one of the books won some sort of an online award. Really horrible. Even the award winner.
One digital book published by a small press, Amber Quill, has the dubious honor of being declared The Worse Book We Have Read In Our LIves So Far—see, I’m leaving room for the future, by the friend I shared it with and myself. Shame. It had a clever title and a good cover, just needed an author.
I’ll take a chance on a book that sounds good for $2.99 or less. I’ll try a sample based on recommendations.
And with regard to Amazon non-reviews, has anyone else noticed
The rest of the story is here: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100826/16563710787.shtml
while I read stories in online news articles about the mythological author who sold books out of the trunk of her car then got a six figure publishing deal, I’ve never actually seen said author
While she writes lit fic—not romance novels—Hilary Thayer Hamann iss an author whose self-published novel Anthology of an American Girl was picked up by a major publisher. It’s also garnered a ton of favorable reviews (if that’s how you determine success I guess) so there is one story to back up that self-pub myth. Again, it’s only one author in the thousands who will publish shit and then suffer under the weight of their own genius.
I think I’ve read one self-pubbed book – Darlene Marshall’s Captain Sinister’s Lady – and that was after seeing it and other of her books reviewed on various sites by people whose opinions matter to me. It was a really fun book, nothing special, but definitely on par with traditionally pubbed books I’ve read in terms of quality.
As a rule, however, I avoid self-pubbed like the plague. Why? Because the authors annoy the ever-loving piss out of me on the Amazon romance board. One too many has spammed the board or recommended this great book they “found” or generally spoken to us like we’re dimwits. Then whenever they’re called on it, they break out this high-pitched whine about how The Man doesn’t appreciate special snowflakes. No way I’m going to support twats like that. Their heroines are guaranteed to make me reach for the gas can and the lighter.
When they stop behaving like emo teenagers, I might buy their books.
What turns me off self published or indie books?
Lack of editing. Bad/amateur formatting. Lack of editing. Ugly cover art with funny colored fancy fonts, like yellow Comic Sans or Curlz that scream “I did it myself”. The same holds for a lot of small press. Plastic people on the covers straight out of a 3D program with no post work. Bad cut and paste and awful compositing. Covers that look like a tribe of 3 year olds with crayons made them. (Unless it is a book about or by three year olds.) Misspellings in the pitches/blurbs, product descriptions, or author webpage.
On the other side, there are incredibly talented authors out there in the indie world. They have professional editors. They get professional cover artists, and you can tell. They format with care, or find someone who can. Kindle or print book, it is quality, well presented, well written, well plotted, exciting, and re-readable. The good ones are out there. You just have to find them.
I filled out the quiz but think you could use another category. I bought one self-published book because I felt sorry for the author, a friend who’d gotten caught by a scammy press. I avoid them like the plague otherwise. I get annoyed by the occasional professionally published book that I think could use a bit more editing – every self-published book I’ve ever picked up has given me the impression that no editors at all were involved. Possibly I’ve run into mostly bad ones.
Because I was mentioned here: http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/self-publishing-reader-survey/#122907 I feel I need to clarify what I said.
While at RWA Orlando I spoke briefly with Angela James of Carina about the DTP-as-beta and she said (I’m paraphrasing) “Don’t.” She said as long as I had not marketed it (does that email to SB Sarah count as marketing, I still wonder?) I could pull it from Amazon and still *try* to pitch it to print publishers.
I remember this conversation! And I did say don’t, but not because I was discouraging you from self-publishing, but because you clearly indicated this wasn’t a book you wanted to self publish/hadn’t intended to publish, but wanted to shop to publishers. And I was saying that once you self publish the book (and it’s self published as soon as it’s for sale anywhere), it’s now considered previously published by editors and agents, and you’re entering a whole different level of querying, because now the editors/agents are going to want to know how many copies you sold. Why it did or didn’t sell well. And they can’t (or shouldn’t) present it to their readers as a new book. Because technically it’s been previously published. No matter your intentions!
I have purchased quite a few printed self-published books.
Eight years ago, paranormal romance was much more difficult to find, and I was hungry enough for the topic to order and give them a try. My local retail store would order a couple at a time for me, and let me take a look before I put down my hard earned cash. Yes, those with horrible grammar were rejected and returned. To be honest, none of them were literary works of editorial art. The selling point was how the author handled the sex scene; I leaned more toward the paranomal erotica, and I don’t buy sex scenes with “throbbing manhoods” or “sweet manjuice”.
As mainstream publishers picked up on the paranormal trend and more was available, I tapered off the self-published simply because mainstream has professional editing and a more consistent product.
As far as purchasing another self-published, I won’t buy e-books; it has to be in print format so I can look at it. I have to be able to actually flip through and check the consistency of the editing. Skeptical? Yep.
As for your survey questions, the cover art doesn’t make or break a self-published book for me because I know these people are working on a budget. The blurb itself is the primary contact that will get me to pick it up.
(However, cover art from a mainstream publisher WILL have a big impact on the sale for me, because if the publisher doesn’t believe enough in the book to pay for decent cover art, then the book probably isn’t worth much.)
Thank you for elaborating Angela.
I’ve bought self-published cookbooks and some new-age stuff that has a limited market, but I’ve never bought self-published fiction. I have an acquaintance who self-published, and she paid a professional editor, and it sounds kinda interesting, but I still haven’t bought it. It may be that I’m just not into that historical era anymore, but it’s more likely that I don’t want to feel obligated to give her my opinion—especially if I don’t like it. So many books to read, so little time…
Even reading e-books these days, I’m finding myself relying very heavily on reviews, and taking fewer chances when I buy. When I only bought in paper, I’d buy a lot more chancey books, because they were published by houses I recognized.
I think I should have clarified earlier – Ultimately, I very rarely buy *ANY* book without reading a sample of it. Those I do purchase without previewing, it’s because it’s an author I’ve either already read, or they’ve come highly recommended by a friend or trusted source (like SBTB!.
Maybe because I’m familiar with fan fiction and have had the pleasure of coming across some real gems that are extremely well-written and have wonderful plots, I’m less inclined to be prejudiced against *all* self-published works. Yes, there’s a LOT of crap. But there’s a lot of crap everywhere – in self-published fiction and published fiction (and fan fiction). And yeah, the crap ratio is higher in self-published. But I guess the way I see it is that there’s so MUCH crap everywhere, I’m ecstatic when I find something really great anywhere. And I’m not willing to write off entire sources of reading material on the argument that most of it’s crap. I kind of think it’s the “most of it’s crap” argument that leads to people making sweeping generalizations about whole genres of fiction (like romance).
Maybe because I don’t purchase without sampling, period, it’s all the same to me. *shrug*
Up until about 2.5 years ago, I had purchased 2 or 3 self-published paperbacks, all mysteries that fit in a particular niche I’m fond of and never get enough of. None of those books were terrific, but none were so awful I felt cheated either.
Then came Kindle. At the time I purchased my K1 I had no idea how much difference the sample feature would make. In the beginning I got some indie books without knowing they were indie. They were inexpensive, so I gave them a try. As time passed I found and joined some of the Amazon and other forums and became more aware but also found more information about indie books. In fact, full disclosure here, I found the information about Amazon’s DTP that led me to become an indie author last February with books that had been sitting on my PC’s hard drive for years, not because anyone doesn’t appreciate genius I make no claim to have but for other kinds of reasons I won’t bore anyone with in this long enough post.
I absolutely understand anyone who doesn’t want to bother with the self-published and have no urge to try to change anyone’s mind. However, I personally am grateful that there are thousands of readers out there who are more adventuresome, and I do have to wonder why a discussion of self-published books couldn’t feature the description of, or an excerpt from, one of the many successful ones.
What she said. I’ve bought several of this variety. They’re in a totally different category, IMO. “Re-released by the Author” or something.
On the subject of self-publishing, I feel compelled to mention Dara Joy.
Sorry to revive those memories, but it had to be said.
I’m definitely leery of self-published books. I’m hard to please in the first place, and self-pubbed books tend to have so many errors and a general lack of quality that I have to be VERY interested to buy one. I read a fair amount on literotica, and some of the authors that I read have gone on to self-publish but I have never bought any of their stuff. I don’t mind reading half-baked plots for free but paying for it, even if it is the edited version, is not something that I’m willing to do.
I’ve bought self publisheded and still do. There’s an author that sells on Fictionwise that I buy when ever I can. All self published are not error filled crap. Just like all pro. published books are not error free wonderful stories.
I’ve gotten books from Dorch.,Tor, Harlequin ect. that were just awful. I couldn’t understand how they managed to get a contract for them. All but 1 professionally published author I have read in the last 2 years had multiple mistakes [at least] in their books. Including the heavy hitters from major houses. I’m not talking spelling or punctuation either. I’m talking major mistakes. Character going back & forth between her/him he/she when they were a single sex character. Non shifter main characters having different eye colors; wrong names; doubling of words etc. etc.etc. If I can catch them, they are pretty blatant.
When that’s mentioned with prof. published books there is always an excuse. There are crappy books in both groups. Don’t be closed minded… not all talented writers have an agent to go to bat for them or are willing to wait how ever many years to be picked up by a publisher. In the internet age why should they have to wait to be considered legit.? I don’t get the thinking they need to suffer thru rejections to be actual writers. From what editors & agent alike are saying rejections are not always because a book isn’t any good, correct?
To me it’s like saying review bloggers for example are not legit because their reviews are not being published in a newspaper or magazine, they haven’t gone thru the rejection process and eventually been picked up. I don’t think that’s true either.
I’m thinking of several authors whose digital rights are returning to them soon. One in particular is Lois Bujold, whose novel Spitit Ring, published in mmpb by Baen Books and digitally by Fictionwise.com is now being offered by Amazon for Kindle.
Baen Books is negotiating with Amazon to offer its entire back list through Amazon. Mind, they already offer all their books in multiple formats including kindle already. So many potential customers associate Amazon and kindle as the only ebooks that it’s worth it for the added exposure. I understand the sticking point is how much the authors get from the sales. Toni Weiscopf at Baen is holding out for a bigger slice. Lois, meanwhile, is sticking a toe in the water and hoping for noticeable movement in her back list.
I have purchased one (1) Book from LuLu in three overpriced volumes of 175 chapters. So, I will buy self-published books. The reasons were that I wanted to help the author financially without just sending a check (which I had done before), and I enjoyed the story when he published it freely on the net, though it desperately needed editing and trimming. The author never let three dot elipses do the job when he could indicate a longer pause with eight dots, and he also loved expressing vehemence and excitement with multiple exclamation points, just to give a couple of examples. I also hate when points become mute.
I have downloaded free stories from self-publishers. I have not purchased any others.
Code “again39”? I wish!!!!
I bought a self-pub book once a few years back because the author had already put the entire story online to read for free, and I liked it enough to want the print copy.
The problem was that there were so many typos (just on the back cover!) when the author had claimed that she had spent a month or so on editing. She also never revised, so all the constructive crit that people sent her way (“I like this, but there is a small inconsistency with this part”) went ignored.
Months later she posted another story, but only half of it was free and the rest went straight to eBook. Eventually she ended up posting a long rant on her blog (with comments disabled) telling people off because there were questions about large inconsistencies. She basically told her readers to fuck off because it was her story and if they didn’t understand it then that was their own damn fault.
Um, what?
So I don’t bother with self-published authors anymore. There are a few people here and there that post original fic free to read that is usually much better done than the self-pub crap. And they’re usually more polite too.
kinsmith wrote:
I’m in complete agreement. I never judge a book by its cover unless the cover is by Kinuko Craft. I have never read a bad book with a Craft cover. I can spot her style across the room and head straight for it. Judging from the prices on her web site, she doesn’t come cheap, so if the publisher has enough faith to pay her rates,the book must be good. I’ve never been disappointed. I’ve found new authors that have become favorites because her covers sold me the book. She’s the only cover artist I follow and automatically buy.
Nonfiction: I’ve bought it. Especially in college, there was usually at least one or two self-published books on my required and/or recommended reading list from the professor. I also got a few gift cards to a small bookstore that sold textbooks and self-published works so I picked up a few there. My mom, whose a hypnotherapist, has a number of books from self-published people on her bookcase about her field.
Fiction: The chances of me buying self-published fiction (unless we’re including authors releasing their backlist or an established author I already read selling a new book s/he couldn’t find a publisher for) is slim to none, because a) I don’t run across many self-published books and b) I don’t buy many new-to-me authors for full price without a really amazing sample chapter and/or a boatload of recommendations in any format. As for e-books, I only buy a very specific sub-genre in digital, and I tend not to buy beyond a few authors, all of which come from one of three e-book publishing houses.
Scribblerkat: Ah, that explains so much. 🙂 (Kidding…kind of…)
Jody W: *thumbs up* I was thinking a lot of the “I hate self-pub and will never ever read it cause it’s almost all utter crap” reminded me of what non-romance readers say about romance.
I have had three books published by Cerridwen (an imprint of EC) and yet I chose to publish my latest book myself. Why? Because it wasn’t an appropriate genre for Cerridwen and after more than a year of soliciting agents and publishers, just after the big economic downturn, I had lots of positive feedback but no firm interest. (Incidentally, this was manuscript which did very well in a chick-lit contest) Publishers are less and less likely to take a “risk” on what they consider a new writer in our current economic environment. Since my publisher wasn’t doing much to support and market my books and I am an experienced writer who believed in my story, I didn’t figure that I was losing much by publishing on my own.
Never say never. While I cannot deny that many many (too) many writers skip steps, are blind to their own writing problems, and impatient to just get on with it, not all self-published writers are the same. I take the time to write well, to edit my work, to have it read and get feedback, and pay for a good cover design – in general, to put forth the best, most polished work that I can, just as I would do if I were going through a publisher. No outlandish plots.
My book, Separation Anxiety, is available on Smashwords.com for $2.99 with a 20% free read option. I can’t really make it any more risk free than that, and it’s sad to think that just because I did it myself it will be dismissed out of hand.
Since I’ve been name-checked in this thread, it’s not surprising to learn that yes, I’m self-published. And pro-published, print and digital. In my mind, there’s zero difference in quality and editing polish between my Smashwords books and my Samhain books, because nothing gets submitted that’s not edited to within an inch of its life. I’ve given up trying to convince people who think all self-pubbed stuff is crap, but for anyone interested in why you should give my self-pubbed books a go, I wrote a little post about it. (Link on the front page)
But let me give you another example of an author whose self-pubbed books are as fabulous as her pro published books – Tamara Allen. Whistling in the Dark was published by Torquere (which is so close to being self-published it makes no difference), then self-pubbed, then picked up by Lethe. Downtime, which is one of the more superior books I’ve ever read, is self-pubbed. Check out reviews of either book – you won’t find people bitching about lousy grammar or bad editing there.
M/m is a genre where for so long, there was no market at all for our writing, that a lot of authors put their stuff up for free – this is before Lulu and Smashwords, or before Samhain and Running Press. So a lot of our longterm readers don’t have this artificial divide between free, self-pubbed and pro pubbed work – if it’s good, they’ll read it (though the downside of this is convincing that yes, now, they do have to pay for quality work even if they could get things like Kei’s Gift online for free for years.) I notice trad Romance readers are much more resistant to the idea, which is rather sad – a lot won’t read free books, and the comments here demonstrate the prevailing thoughts on self-pub.
But that’s okay. I can wait for people to catch up with the trend. Until then, I’ll be happy with the income I get from Smashwords, which equals or betters what I get from the pro pubs. I’m laughing all the way to the bank 🙂
This. Sales through Samhain are decent, but the figures for some other epresses are woeful. Editing is equally varied, and marketing is non-existent. If a press is going to sell under 100 copies in a year and give me 10% or less per copy (while tying me to a 10 year contract and refusing to release a digital version), which is my experience with one publisher, I’m a million times better off keeping control of my own work, sell as many or more copies in a month, and decide what formats and marketing my audience wants. People assume pro publishers have a clue about how to sell books – well, a lot don’t, especially in the small sub genres. No more small indy presses for me.