A Not So Simple Question

Since the epic flop that was Amazon’s behavior during #amazonfail, and in the weeks following, I haven’t linked to Amazon.com for sales links, using IndieBound instead. Some readers have emailed me privately to say that while they appreciate the change of linkage, their local Indie bookstore has not been friendly to them as romance readers in the least, and many shared encounters wherein their inquiries for anything mass market were met with derision and outright scorn.

Nice.

Others have emailed me to say that they still shop at Amazon and would welcome a link to support the hot pink palace of Bitchery. One dude said outright, “Everyone still shops there, even if they say they don’t.” Heh. I don’t know about that, but who knows?

So: a poll. I’m not making decisions based on the poll results. This is merely my own curiosity. I’m not inspecting results, and you can use whatever crazy-mo email address you want, so it’s not like I’m going to out you or something. I’m simply nosy: do you still shop at Amazon?

[ETA: Yes, this entry was up yesterday, and I took it down because the freaking poll software stopped working and I can’t figure it out – so it’s anonymous comment time – whee! Make sure you’re not logged in already via cookie (mmm cookie) if you want to be incognito.

ETA: Hooray for Esosoft, whose support staff is always on and populated by people with PhDs in PhP. Thanks for fixing the poll, Esosoft!]

Comments are Closed

  1. Sonic says:

    I don’t care if Amazon made a mistake with a code or if it was intentional or if only a few employees made the mistake.  I feel like it wouldn’t have hurt the company to issue an unambiguous apology and assurances that this won’t happen again.

    It is a big deal, but I still shop there because they have the cheapest books.  I’m glad smartbitches doesn’t link to them though.  I really do appreciate that.

  2. caligi says:

    I buy a box of books once a week from Amazon. I feel that pretty much every bookstore in the Greater Boston area – independent and chain alike – has cashiers who judge romance readers and find us beneath them. Sure I shouldn’t care what cashiers think of my tastes, but, regardless, it’s unpleasant to be criticized, even if it is ever so subtly done.

    Nobody smirks at my vampire romance when I buy through Amazon, and cashiers all but hug and praise consumers of GLBTQ literature around here – since we’re in head over heels love with gay rights in MA – so I’m going to feel it’s an even trade and not feel a whit of guilt over patronizing Amazon.

    I also thought the whole Amazonfail thing was a massive overreaction, though Amazon reacted kind of poorly to it all as well.

  3. HaloKun says:

    Does anyone use ABEbooks.com?

    I find it’s easier to find exactly what I’m looking for.  And you can shop by dealer.  But it’s mainly used or rare books.

  4. Sandia says:

    RonHogan just twittered (twatted?)

    Completely OT but my other half insists that “twatted” is the appropriate past tense for tweet… LOL.

  5. Suze says:

    I’ve never shopped at Amazon because I prefer to shop as locally as possible.  Even though chapters. indigo. coles. smith. everyflippingbookstoreincanada.ca is a ginormous chain, at least it’s still (so far as I know) a Canadian chain.  Support local jobs and all.

    That said, amazon.ca is much more navigable, and I like the peek inside option.  And the Indigo ebook screen just makes no sense.

  6. Jennifer says:

    I’d rather buy books in person whenever possible. I only buy off Amazon when I can’t find the book in person, and usually I am getting really obscure research titles a few times a year. I haven’t bought since amazonfail, but given the sheer practicality of it all I doubt I’d ban buying from them for that. They are just the most convenient, period.

  7. Yes, I still do some shopping at Amazon, usually for items that aren’t available through my local bookstores, chain and independent. 

    But since the majority of my reading is now done through my Sony e-reader, I tend to do most of my buying through Connect and directly from some publishers, such as Baen books. 

    My second choice, when a download isn’t available from anywhere, is my bookstores.

    Third is my bookclubs, such as Rhapsody and Mystery Guild and Doubleday.

    Amazon is last on the list.

  8. Lisa richards says:

    I shop from whomever has the best price and availability, sadly that is usually Amazon

  9. Kalen Hughes says:

    Does anyone use ABEbooks.com?

    I’ve used them for years, but it must be noted that they’re now owned by Amazon.

  10. Kalen Hughes says:

    I understand it’s useful to have a nice easy link, but why can’t the people who are annoyed by you not linking to amazon go to amazon themselves and search the book in question?  It’s your right as a blogger to avoid advertising for a company you disapprove of just as its their right as a consumer to shop where ever they want.

    I think it’s also about the small % that they earn via said link. It helps offset the ginormous cost of running a site like this (this is the same issue Dear Author had). If they’re posting a link nobody uses, they get no revenue.

  11. Jojo says:

    If it’s an older book that I’m okay with waiting until I can find it at a used book store, I’ll wait.  Otherwise I use Amazon, both because it’s easy and because it is cheap.  I too frequently qualify for Amazon’s 4-for-3 promotion, and I always buy enough to get free shipping.  If you posted a link here I’d be sure and use it for my many purchases.

    At one point I did think that maybe I was using Amazon too much when I called their helpline and the gentleman said, “Oh, you are a frequent customer, aren’t you?”  Then I reminded myself that one can never have too many books and went on my happy way.

  12. teacupnosaucer says:

    I live in a (very) rural area, so amazon.ca is my go-to for bookstore purchases, after our mom-and-pop bookshop (RIP Persnickety Books, who were NEVER rude about what books we bought, thank you) shut down when the owners moved back to Newfoundland to retire. A friend of mine says amazon.ca and amazon.com are two very different companies, so maybe I’ll return to shopping there, because I do so miss the convenience and the prices, but lately I’ve been shopping through indigo.ca and the chapters people, which has been alright, I suppose.

    What I’m saying is that YES, #amazonfail was enough for them to lose my business, even though it is annoying and inconvenient for me to shop elsewhere, as someone who lives hours away from the nearest Chapters, or even the nearest mom-and-pop bookstore.

  13. azteclady says:

    I forgot to mention earlier that another forum I belong to has tried for over a year to enter the B&N affiliates program, and has been denied each time. Amazon’s revenue, on the other hand, has saved their/our bacon more than once (meaning, the forum is still viable mostly thanks to that income).

    So if amazon links keep the bitchery alive… go for it, ladies. Pragmatism and all that

  14. Flo says:

    Personally, I don’t see the big deal.  If they have what you want you buy it.  If they don’t then go elsewhere.  Frankly, I’m going with whoever is cheapest.  I can be moralistic and stand up for others issues when the economy isn’t in the tank.  I know that may be harsh but it’s where I stand atm. 

    BTW why would the rank matter that much?  I mean if you know you’re going in to buy something why would you care the rank?  If you were simply browsing why would you give two shits what others think about the book anyway?  Can you not read the synopsis on your own?

  15. Krista says:

    I was totally appalled by #amazonfail, and in solidarity with authors who lost their ranking, I gave up on Amazon.

    But still, I use Amazon’s Look Inside feature to preview a book, then I pick up the phone and order through my independent.

    I’ll admit, I’m addicted to audible.com, which is owned by Amazon. Anyone know of an independent online audiobook seller?

  16. Cora says:

    I live in Germany and the local Amazon is my only way of getting pretty much any English language book I want at reasonable prices and with free shipping. The foreign language book sections in the local bookstores are often small and frequently skewered towards books/genres I have no interest in. Special ordering English language books at the bookstore (which is what I did pre Amazon) is more expensive than Amazon and the orders can take a long time to arrive.

    It’s not that I wouldn’t like to be able to shop at Powells, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository or any other Amazon alternative, but only Amazon gives me free shipping and I don’t have to deal with the exchange rate hassles and the credit card company charges extra for foreign currency.

    So if boycotting Amazon for their crappy behaviour regarding GLBT books means buying fewer books at higher prices, I choose the books anytime.

  17. Gary Jordan says:

    I canceled an order and haven’t used them since the fiasco, but… for treebooks, I’ll still use them. Most of my reading list is eBooks from Fictionwise or Baen Books, anyway. For eBooks, Amazon is teh suck.

  18. BTW why would the rank matter that much?  I mean if you know you’re going in to buy something why would you care the rank?  If you were simply browsing why would you give two shits what others think about the book anyway?  Can you not read the synopsis on your own?

    It mattered because removing the rankings meant that the books didn’t turn up at all in the results of searches done from the main page, so it looked as though they weren’t available. If you knew to search specifically in the book category, they did turn up, but a lot of people (and I include myself in that number) usually just search Amazon using the searchbox on the main page, without bothering to specify that the item sought is a book. Usually this isn’t a problem, but at the time of this incident it was, and authors may well have lost sales because it looked as though their books weren’t available.

    It’s not that I wouldn’t like to be able to shop at Powells, Barnes & Noble, Book Depository or any other Amazon alternative, but only Amazon gives me free shipping and I don’t have to deal with the exchange rate hassles

    Cora, the Book Depository say they offer “Free delivery worldwide on all our books” and in the top right-hand corner of their main page you can choose the option of seeing their prices in Euros, which would presumably eliminate any “exchange rate hassles.”

  19. cate says:

    Living   in the UK &  trying to get my hands on   the sort of deliciously trashy books that I enjoy is well nigh impossible.
    So for me,  Amazon is a necessity; &  in all fairness I’ve always had fantastic service from them.
    Like most of us who read   purple prose,  lust in the dusts,  bodice rippers……call ‘em what you will. I’ve been sneered at by the best. From librairians to spotty 20 somethings who are going to spend the next 7 yrs carrying The Satanic Verses around, making out they’ve read it ( Don’t bother,  it’s   truly,  mind blowingly awful )
    Amazon have definately cocked up,  big time……but,  they’re   still going to have my custom   for the foreseeable   future

  20. Moonlissa says:

    The independents in my city would not lower themselves to carry romance!  I am lucky that a new Borders was just built within miles of my home, but I can still usually get better prices at Amazon.  I had to break up with my local BN a few years ago.  They could not seem to get books on the shelf on their street date.  When I want my book…I want it now!  I am lucky enough to have access to Amazon Prime, so I can’t beat a 4 for three deal with free two day shipping.

  21. Pam says:

    Couldn’t vote (not working), but I haven’t shopped at Amazon since the Deborah MacGillivray scandal.  Anyone know what (if anything) happened with that?

  22. Sandia says:

    This was my perspective on the #amazonfail thing – I thought it was good that they were trying to clean up their search key words.  To be honest – I think a lot of authors overlooked the fact that there are so many things on Amazon that sometimes, when searching for one thing completely innocent, you can turn up something that may not be work safe or even appropriate for your children.  I can see why Amazon tried to put in the filters. 

    A great example of this – and still happens – is to look up “Girl Scout Cookies” on Amazon.  You’ll see a speculum and wolf urine turning up in the search.

    They need to try to have correct key words so that searches turn out appropriate items.

    So someone at Amazon screwed up, and they weren’t able to respond to it as quickly as it spread virally (sp?) via twitter.  But I never thought that meant that they were trying to delist authors at all, nor were they trying to screw “certain authors” over.  That’s the feeling I got through the whole #amazonfail fiasco and I really felt bad for Amazon.  I think ALL COMPANIES are still trying to learn to live and react in a new world filled with the speed of the “new” internet.  So Amazon got a first hand lesson in it – hopefully they learned something out of it….

  23. Marianne McA says:

    I was buying the new Julia Quinn & Loretta Chase, so just out of interest, I looked them up on both Amazon.co.uk & the Book Depository.
    (I do buy from Amazon.co.uk, but I’ve often bought from The Book Depository through Amazon, and – apart from once – they’ve been great, so I’ve nothing against either establishment.)
    Anyway the price on Amazon was £9.27 (with free shipping as it’s over a fiver), and from TBD it was £11.23. 
    Straw in the wind, but I’ve noticed before that TBD prices on Amazon were lower than the prices on their own site, so I imagine the prices on their own site include an amount that goes towards shipping. (Which is fine: they’ve always – apart from that once – got me the books very promptly.)

    I do think Amazon aren’t as good as they used to be – they ‘couldn’t find’ the last US hardback I preordered – which I took to mean didn’t want to find it – perhaps they’d have lost money at the price I’d preordered it at…

    I think part of what I like about Amazon is that I’ve my card details on the one site, but I can still order from different vendors like TBD, or greenmetropolis etc, without having to worry about whether each site is secure. (I’ve no idea if it is really safer, but to my Luddite brain it feels safer.)

  24. Kass says:

    I’ve never shopped at Amazon, so I can’t take your poll. 🙂

  25. Heidi says:

    I have continued to use Amazon, though I slowed down after the incident in question 😉 However, for several reasons I have continued to use them and will continue to use them.

    First, I have a Kindle and must feed it.

    Second, I have a Prime Membership and really enjoy it.

    Third, the prices are always, without a doubt, better, at least here. For example: going to buy “The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie” looking at B&N, would have gotten the 20% members discount off the $23.00 price, then paid 8.25% tax, so roughly $19.91. At Amazon, no tax, no shipping (believe me, I’ve gotten my moneys worth of that Prime) and its $15.64, total.

    Plus, the romance section at B&N is a joke of epic proportions. Even if I wanted to pay $2-3 more dollars a book, I couldn’t because they usually don’t have what I want.

    Please put the Amazon link back so I can at least give you bitches some revenue while I’m using the evil bad people! At least let me have a light in the darkness! Feel like I”m doing something good while I’m being oh…soo….bad. ACK! Sounds like erotica.

  26. susanmpls says:

    I receive Amazon gift certificates regularly, so I buy on Amazon. I also do lot of my online book browsing on Amazon because their site is easy to navigate, though sometimes what sources in a search is a little weird.

    In addition to Amazon, I buy from Barnes & Noble, the grocery store, Target, Common Good Books, Borders, and for old stuff, Half Price Paperbacks.

    I have a great indie not too far from work and home (Common Good Books). They don’t have a romance section in the store, though some trade paper chick-lit-y titles are mixed in fiction. I special order romances from them (have Nalini Singh on order)—no shipping costs, they call me when bks arrive, and I can browse for other stuff while there. The staff doesn’t treat me poorly for reading romances, though I’ve never really chatted about it with them, either. We usually talk digital books or the state of bookselling in general.

    FYI, Tattered Cover just started carrying more romance (their buyer got a recco list and ordered a bunch of titles last week), and is trying to figure out how to get the word out to romance readers so they’ll shop at TC (which would mean TC would stock more and more books if they were selling them).

  27. jessica says:

    Well, that’s the problem with ignoring a huge contingent of readers for a long time—they don’t trust you anymore. 

    I would love to shop at the Tattered Cover.  I live in Fort Collins but my boyfriend works in downtown Denver and I drive down with him if he works on the weekends and wander.  I was just on 16th street Saturday and spent some quality time and money in the Barnes and Noble rather than the TC just down the street.  And I spend quite a bit on books—I have about 30 authors on auto-buy and never turn down an interesting looking book.

    That all being said, I don’t trust that TC cares about romance novels and I’ve heard absolute horror stories about their attitude towards romance readers.  They wouldn’t be going from a mediocre to good romance section, they would be going from about 30 romance titles in a difficult to find location (I took a picture of this because I was so irritated—they are all facing OUT even!) to ?  Even doubling it is pretty sad.

  28. DS says:

    I’m an Amazon user.  It’s a relationship that has been better at some times than others, but I don’t see any reason to break up with Amazon.  In fact we just used Amazon to replace all of the office computers with cute little Asus eeeboxes.

    I did click on an Indiebound but it seemed complicated.

  29. Elayna says:

    I normally use Amazon.co.uk, but I have recently stopped for a number of issues, mainly centering on the amount of time it takes for them to deliver items due to being posted from Jersey.  Including the pre-order of a video game that would normally have arrived on the date of release, ariving 10 days later, and the order of an instock paperback book that took 6 days to arrive.

    I have started to use Play.com for electronic items as they have decent prices and usually free delivery.

    For books I use the Book Depository (which I note a few others use as well).  This site is fantastic.  The prices are usually the same as or cheaper than Amazon and they offer free delivery.  The small padded envelope the books arrive in is also easier to recycle or re-use, as opposed to the massive amounts of cardboard that seem to arrive with each Amazon delivery.

  30. Amie Stuart says:

    I could drive five miles to Borders or B&N, but they might not have what I want.

    Jane O. and anyone else with a Borders or BN nearby….they’ll both order books for you and/or hold them if they have them in stock.  You can do this online or call them, but Borders only holds books for like 24 hours.  Another author told me that special orders also make it more likely that a bookstore will order later releases.  (If you’re so inclined of course).

    I didn’t read all the comments but Rose, someone else recced that book site also—crap OH Karen from Karen knows best 😀

  31. Cora says:

    Cora, the Book Depository say they offer “Free delivery worldwide on all our books” and in the top right-hand corner of their main page you can choose the option of seeing their prices in Euros, which would presumably eliminate any “exchange rate hassles.”

    Thanks, Laura. I’ll give them a try and see how they compare to Amazon.

  32. The Extra OddNari says:

    Amazon is the only site that ships nearly everything (barring heavy stuff) to my country and at relatively cheap rates, too. I trust them more because they are a large organisation and whenever I’ve had trouble with my orders, they have been extremely efficient about handling the issues, going to the point to replacing lost orders totally free of charge. Small sites just were not able to give me that level of service so I’m all for amazon, despite being bi.

  33. GrowlyCub says:

    I just wanted to share an experience I just had with Barnes and Noble.  I usually don’t shop there because of their prices, but AAA has a 10% off and free 3 day shipping fr orders over 25 bucks so I thought ‘why not?’.

    Well, now I know why not.

    I had 4 books in the order, 2 available right now, one July 1 and one August 1.  It didn’t even occur to me that this might be a problem since when I order from Bamm.com they ship the available items right away even when you pick ‘ship in as few shipments as possible’.  Silly me, expecting that of B&N.

    Not only won’t they ship any of the books until August 1, they will also not allow me to cancel the order, because the two books that are available are ‘uncancellable’ even though they won’t ship them until August 1.

    When I called customer service I was told it’s their system and there’s nothing they can do about it.  I can return the items to the nearest B&N, except that’s about 100 miles from my house.  Or I can ship them back and hope they’ll issue a refund.  Or I can cancel the two items that are cancellable, but I’ll be charged shipping charges for the other two books that then would ship Friday.

    I cannot believe they are using a system that’s this customer unfriendly to hold my money hostage.  I haven’t decided yet what I’ll do, but I know one thing, that was the absolutely last time EVER I will attempt to buy anything at B&N.  Talk about screwing over your customers!

    And people wonder why I’m called ‘Growly’Cub… grumble, mumble…

  34. Barbara says:

    I’m another powells.com fan. Their brick-and-mortar store is a bibliophile’s wet dream, so I love to support that by buying from their online store, too.

  35. Karla says:

    I used to buy with Amazon, then I moved to just buying used books via Amazon so they’d still get a bit of a commission. But after discovering paperbackswap I don’t “buy” anything anymore. I’m far behind in the romance genre anyway, so I love getting great deals like 10 books for 2 credits on that site. And if it’s a more recent title and there’s a long wish list, I just add it to my own wishlist and let it come to me eventually.

  36. Mippy C says:

    I still shop at Amazon, but mostly for hardcover, trade paperbacks, or pb’s that are just hard to find.  I hate driving around from store-to-store in search of books.  Having them shipped directly to my door in two days saves me time, gas, money, and the headaches of driving through traffic.  I have their Amazon Prime and must say I love it.  All of our family live in other states and it’s just a convenient way to 2-day ship birthday and Christmas presents, not to mention ordering last minute gifts for my own kids, as well.  I buy enough from Amazon to make the $70 fee associated with Prime well worth it.

  37. CaroleM says:

    I still shop at Amazon.  At least when I can, since my livelihood is SELLING books on AMAZON, to support my book-buying habit.
    Now I know why sales have crashed for the sellers there.  Unfortunately, it means now I can’t afford to buy the books I want -anywhere.

  38. I still shop at amazon.  I honestly think it was a fluke and people overreacted.

    I mean I could start a rumor and watch it fly all over the internet.  The one thing I’ve discovered is that hardly anyone checks their facts when passing on stuff (for example-did you know that guys are trying to sell perfume samples at gas stations so that they can rape you?  Oh, and if you pass along my comment to five people, your phone will ring and the President will be on the line?  No.  really.  he will.  Would I lie to you?)  😉

  39. sara says:

    I used to shop at Amazon, but I have stopped some time ago. I use The Book Depository instead, which is absolutely great (as many have already stated) because I can now buy one book at a time without having to bother with ship delivery rates, conversion and customs. I love it :).

  40. Sonic says:

    @ Karla:
    Thanks for mentioning paperbackswap – I started using them as a result and it’s a really good idea.  Just received my first book today 🙂

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