What Is It About Edward?

I started writing this late last week while pondering what it is about Edward that has folks so addicted to the Twilight series, and so willing to overlook or excuse what critics find to be some creeptastic behavior on his part. Since then, the first 12 chapters of Midnight Sun have been leaked, much to author Stephenie Meyer’s dismay, and she’s halted progress on the project indefinitely. Whether the leak was a publicity stunt or whether someone she gave the chapters to was too tempted not to share them, there remains a LOT of interest in Sir Edward of Sparklyville, and I’ve been spending way too much time comparing him to Alpha Heroes from Days Of Yore to determine what it is about him that’s so transfixing, so addictive, so amazing that people are literally going bananas over the idea that they won’t get the rest of his perspective from Midnight Sun. And of course, I’m reading Midnight Sun and wondering how much time I can spend in this guy’s head before I go bananas. I warn you: this entry is holy shit long. Don’t say you weren’t warned.


While there seems to be some divide between the folks who love them some Jacob, I remain fascinated with the people who are over the moon about Edward, particularly as he’s portrayed in Twilight.

The more I think about it, and look back on Edward’s appearances and interactions with Bella in Twilight, the more he reminds me of the same old-same old Alpha romance hero —specifically, the old-school Alpha hero recast in glittery YA paleness. The same Alpha hero characteristics that so many readers find either tiresome or downright terrific are present in Edward, and serve to make him addictive and alluring.

Many people have noted how conservative and conventional Twilight is as a romance. They are not wrong, in my opinion. Joanne Renaud was the first to give me the heads up on her opinion that Edward was old-skool all the way down to the punishing kisses. I agree: Bella and Edward’s romance echoes the old skool romances of the beginnings of the romance genre: stories told deep within the point of view of the heroine, wherein the hero is a mysterious figure whose desires and intentions are not known, let alone his feelings. The old skool romance hallmarks are all there, most notably, as Candy pointed out to me after her glut of the old skool romances earlier this year, the idea that the hero’s worldview must be adopted by the heroine in order for her to secure her happy ending, complete with increased social status, wealth, and possible title.

Twilight fits that mold. Bella must become complicit in the secrecy of Edward’s world, and in fact she’s the one who presses to adopt his worldview – by becoming a vampire herself. Within Edward’s family, Bella is special merely because she is Edward’s choice and is absorbed into his family simply on that basis, leaving her father’s home for his, literally and figuratively, following the traditional pattern that takes a virginal woman from her father’s possession and guardianship to her husband’s, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

What set me on the Edward-as-Alpha road to much pondering were the interactions in Twilight after Edward has decided to cease ignoring Bella. Every time he shows up after he’s decided to talk to Bella, he rescues her, and immediately following sweeps in and manages every detail of her life. Moreover, that first occasion of rescue is telling; it comes at a moment of great vulnerability for Bella.

She’s alone at home on a snowy day, convinced she’s going to fall down on the icy sidewalks or wreck her truck on the roads. But she realizes after she gets to school that her father had put chains on her tires early in the morning, before he left and before she woke up, purely to keep her safe. As Belly realizes that her father was quietly watching out for her, an experience she has little familiarity with, in swoops Edward-  literally – to save her by bending flying vans to his will. It’s a subtle moment of underscoring: Bella literally travels from her father’s care to Edward’s care in that moment. From then on, Edward saves her over and over again, sweeping in and managing every detail for her.  Her father’s role is merely as a figure in the household, and readers of Midnight Sun know that Edward was as much a figure in that household as Charlie, whether Charlie or Bella knew it or not. Consider the sequence of Edward and Bella’s interactions:

She gets nearly crushed by a van. He saves her life.

She faints in science class. He carries her to the nurse, then gets her excused from classes so he can bring her home.

She is followed by creepy guys in a coastal town. He shows up after reading the thoughts of the villains and rescues her at the last moment before they act on their intentions.

Edward’s Alpha Heroism is solidified by the degree to which he micromanages Bella after those three rescues. He knows whats best. But he takes it one step further by becoming an overseer in her life. Because he doesn’t sleep, he can literally stay with her all the freaking time, aside from when he’s not hunting, and even then he worries about her safety. He makes sure she eats; he watches her as she sleeps.  He pretty much rebuilds his entire day around being with her. He meets her after class, he follows her home, and her day in the Twilight narration becomes measured by when she’s with Edward vs. when she’s not.  He pays a great deal of lip service to the idea of keeping her safe but it’s more a taming of the Alpha Hero, on speed with added crack and angst, because not only does Edward hover over her and pretty much glue himself to her side, but she wants nothing more than to be with him. Every. Minute. All. Day. He drinks blood to survive; she drinks the experience of being with him to avoid depresson.

He tames his desire to kill her and eat her, but he still consumes her, which is the point that made me the most uncomfortable, but may also serve as a primary reference as to why Edward is so alluring a character. While Edward and Bella don’t knock boots in Twilight, Edward manages to insert himself figuratively into her life and become the center of every moment of Bella’s life – and she’s all for it. More than one person commented to me privately after reading my review that the manner in which Bella subsumes her identity and becomes absorbed by Edward almost symbiotically made them as readers profoundly uncomfortable, because it echoed abusive relationships they witnessed or experienced. It wasn’t romantic for them, that totalitarian management – it was creepy.

Plus there’s the fact that Edward doesn’t really do anything else with his endless days.  The only one who does anything with that whole vampiric sleeplessness is Carlisle. He doesn’t need sleep? He’s a butt-trillion years old with light years of medical experience? Holy shit, he’s the best ER doctor ever. Imagine what patient lessons he could relate (thanks to Taylor for the link).

But Edward doesn’t DO anything aside from attend school in presence only, play baseball, and drive cars rather quickly. He plays music but he’s already excellent – a virtuoso, in fact. Bella, for all intents and purposes, becomes his hobby. Being near her, whether she knows it or not, is what he does. But because he has more of a life and routine than she does, she is absorbed into his world, partly because she has no real life in Forks herself, and partly because the secrecy of their society demands it.

The biggest characteristic of an Old Skool Alpha Hero is The Rape of the Heroine, which doesn’t literally occur in Twilight, though one could argue that James’ biting Bella could be interpreted as rape, and Edward’s refusal to change her into a vampire as the refusal to do so. Edward does invade Bella’s privacy and home without her permission in order to watch her, and if his commentary is to be believed, to try to resist killing her. That leashed intention to kill, I think, can be interpreted the same as the leashed intent to rape. But in a strange turn, Bella begs for that violation: she wants to be the same as Edward, and she wants him to kill her and change her.

Regardless of who asks for what form whom, Edward’s possession and possessive attitude are alarmingly Alpha. When anyone—his brothers, random serial rapists hiding in small towns, or another vampire—threatens the human he considers his own, Edward goes berserk. His possession of Bella, even in his mind, is complete and total, and her willingness to follow that possession, since he knows what’s best for her, casts her in a sheepish model that I never recovered from as I read Twilight.

Reading Midnight Sun’s first 12 chapters (while I try to intersperse reading The Jewel of Medina at the same time, speaking of going berserk) hasn’t helped much. Edward’s self-loathing is evident, but the “I’m not good enough for her but she’s MINE MINE MINE EDWARD SMASH” attitude reinforces my suspicions: that Edward is an old-skool Alpha male hero in the classic model, dipped in sparkles and dispensed to a younger audience. Perhaps that explains his allure – there are many, many readers who adore the Alpha model in their romance hero, and Edward is no different.

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Random Musings

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  1. Mel-O-Drama says:

    You might enjoy reading this analysis of the LDS influence on the books, written by an ex-LDS member:
    http://stoney321.livejournal.com/tag/lds+dogma

    Holy shit. That is awesomely funny and sadly a bit frightening. The picture of Bella is cracking me up!

    Thanks for the link, Amy.

  2. bluepixie says:

    I’ve been watching these entries with a lot of fascination, because I read Twilight and enjoyed it thoroughly, a throw-away kind of enjoyment, and I know at least three other highly intelligent women in their mid-twenties to early-thirties who have also enjoyed it. However, I couldn’t get through any of the others (I gave up, and haven’t even attempted Breaking Dawn). I had problems in Twilight too, where I would just get bored…but then I’d go back to reading it again and enjoy.

    I am admittedly a big fan of the alpha hero. No idea why, I haven’t psychoanalyzed that part of my brain. But I do know I enjoy that type of story, especially when they are counterbalanced by heroines who also kick ass, who are intelligent, who don’t mind being a little coddled and protected, and who effect a change for the better in the hero by the end of the book. Bella couldn’t be further from that, and I think that’s what I found so boring about her and the other books. By the end of Twilight I was done with her, though I might have liked to know more about Edward and his family.

    I am kind of surprised, and a little ashamed frankly, that I didn’t pick up on the creepy, unpleasant overtones as I read Twilight the first time. I guess I’ve never been a super-observant reader; I absorb books and decide whether they’re good or not based on whether I read it in one sitting, liked the characters, and remembered it afterwards. Twilight, interestingly, didn’t make my “to buy” list, even though I did enjoy reading it. So maybe my subconscious picked up on something my conscious brain didn’t.

    I’ve defended the book to a colleague who declared she didn’t think teenage girls should be reading it with my “give the girls credit for brains and knowing that kind of relationship is a complete fantasy” argument. I still agree—I would never censor a book; books don’t make decisions for people, and a reading of Twilight isn’t going to change every girl who reads it into a doormat looking for a stalker to love her. I remember being a teenage girl with low self-esteem, low confidence, and unrealistic relationship expectations. I don’t think I would ever have mistaken Bella and Edward for a perfect or realistic couple, and I don’t imagine it would have changed my personal views on the way love works. But maybe I am giving too much credit to teenage girls?

  3. Tea says:

    You are SERIOUSLY a smart beeyatch. Thanks for the close-reading and entertaining lit-crit. This made my week. I read Twilight and Edward freaked me out but you’ve articulated the whole thing brilliantly. Well done, you.

  4. cin says:

    In defense of Edward. 

    Wow, some pretty negative views here, together with some really salient points.  Lends itself to a great debate.

    I have read Twilight (and skimmed the other three books in the series).  I have a YA daughter and like to keep tabs on what she is reading.  I try not to censor her reading too much – I just like to be able to talk with her about what she reads if I think it is necessary or helpful.  In this case, we have had a few talks about how “real” boys aren’t like this (trying to discount the whole vampire/werewolf angle), and would you really want one who was like this?  The answer is an emphatic “No.”  And should you change yourself or your life just for a boy?  Again, “No,” unless it is both what you want for yourself and not a condition of receiving/retaining his affection.

    I didn’t particularly love the series, although I get the impression that I liked it (or the idea of it) a whole lot better than most posters here.  Honestly, I kinda liked Edward.  Yes, he had some Alpha qualities, but I didn’t see him as completely classic Alpha at all.  He was mysterious, but I don’t think his wishes, desires, etc. were unknown.  I thought they were pretty clear.  What he wanted most in the world was Bella, but he knew (or believed) that he couldn’t/shouldn’t have her and that it wouldn’t be good for either of them.  But still, he couldn’t resist.  Further, the whole stalker vibe (admittedly disturbing) is pretty much gone by the end of the first book.  Really, I saw this more as a forbidden/trying to resist type of love story (for which I always am a sucker) and not a dominating/domineering he has all the power and she must submit situation.  Also, as my daughter said to me, “Mom, Edward isn’t human – of course real boys aren’t like that.  This is just how vampires are.”  Isn’t part of the point that this is a fantasy and there are two different species – and not just two different sexes – trying to connect?  And what is acceptable for one species may be abhorrent or completely inexplicable to another?  Can’t that go beyond diet (smirk) to how relationships work?

    Again, I totally concede some classic Alpha behavior … and all the rescues and the constant need to protect Bella got tiresome.  But I also don’t think Bella subsumed her identity and was completely adsorbed in Edward, or that her actions/reactions were exclusive to her.  I think it was mutual – they were consumed by one another.  Moreover, I don’t think Bella completely lost her identity or her essential Bella-ness.  In fact, in the later books that is what saves her (and all of them).  Edward also grows and changes as the books progress, at least to some extent.  And, honestly, who doesn’t become a bit extreme in their behavior with their first love?  It doesn’t have to mean it is a bad, unhealthy, abusive relationship.  My first, true love was freshman year in college (I am not counting the high school crushes) and we spent every possible minute we could together – eating, sleeping, classes, socializing – for months and months.  Maybe not 24 hours a day, but close to it.  And he was a great guy, even during our breakup. 

    Anyway, I could debate this for ages.  Ultimately, I think that what draws readers to this book is the idea of “The One.”  A single, true, everlasting love.  Someone who you would do anything for and who would do anything for you.  A fantasy, but not an especially harmful one.  Not domination or submission, but the formation of almost a new entity.  Something mutual.  And the fact that it is a forbidden love only adds some spice.  Readers loving heroes with Alpha qualities may play into it, but I don’t see it as the primary draw.

    All that said, I didn’t love the series, but I also don’t think they are harmful books for teens, especially if they help prompt some discussion of real, healthy relationships.  Just my two cents.

  5. Lyra says:

    RachelM said:

    But also, many people are losing the reality that this is Fantasy Fiction.  If you want your kids to learn what a real relationship is all about, get them to read nonfiction or go out and make friends.  Fantasy Fiction should not take the place of real life experiences.

    I don’t agree with this at all. I think fiction (and not just of the fantasy genre) is a powerful tool for teaching about relationships. I think fiction gives the reader the power to “try on” all sorts of situations (and emotions) the reader’s real life may not allow. I believe there’s some psychologists who argue that teenagers fantasize because it is an emotionally safe way of trying out personas and finding out what they like and dislike about themselves (and other people).

    Escapist fiction also allows for a reader to decide what she (or he) doesn’t like about a certain situation, a certain trope. 

    The “this is fantasy, it’s not real so it doesn’t matter” sort of argument is one I keep seeing crop up in discussions of Twilight, used even by the author, and I can’t help but feel mildly insulted whenever it is employed.

    Fiction can teach, can convey experience, just as well as non-fiction, and both can teach as well.

  6. Wendy Betts says:

    My take on Twilight was the curious appeal of the lover who is incredibly dangerous to everyone BUT the beloved.  It grabbed me in a very personal, visceral way, though I can understand it being a huge turn-off for others. If you’re interested, my review is here: http://bunnyplanet.blogspot.com/2007_02_14_archive.html

    (page down a bit.)

  7. ijinx says:

    @ Edward. go see this, it’s odd how great it is, and how in character
    http://oxymoronassoc.livejournal.com/462027.html
    I thinkn this is what they came up with when they considered how a 107.year-old male virgin must feel.

    @ discontinuing Midnight Sun
    I get the feeling that S. Meyer wasn’t bothered writing Midnight Sun till the end, and had the chapters leaked so she could bitch, moan, and discontinue. I also think that she’s done it b/c she’s gotten such crappy reviews for Breaking Dawn.
    On with the conspiracy theories! 🙂

  8. GrowlyCub says:

    I think the relationship of Bella and Edward and the appeal it has to a dismayingly large part of the female population in the U.S is part of a larger swing toward conservative ‘values’ with emphasis on the male provider and the female homemaker who takes care of the babies and who doesn’t need to ‘worry’ about anything because her ‘loving’ alpha has everything, including her, under control.

    It’s not just in YA reading material, it’s all over, media, TV, politics.

    It creeps me out and it scares me.  Shades of ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ are turning into much more than mere shades, if you ask me.  That book should be required reading for everybody who thinks Bella/Edward make a good role model.  I’ve lived in the U.S. for 10 years now and it’s frightening to see the current (d)evolution towards the kind of society Atwood describes.

    I’ll proudly call myself a feminazi, if one is considered one for being concerned that the rights and choices women have fought for over the centuries are being eroded, scoffed at and taken away by a patriarch society in the most insidious ways.

    And to whoever thinks that young and not so young people do not take away worldviews, values and attitudes from their leisure reading or TV for that matter, I think you are deluding yourself, especially in the U.S. society where parental intervention and parent-kid talks just don’t happen due to chronic lack of time and energy.

  9. karmelrio says:

    I think fiction gives the reader the power to “try on” all sorts of situations (and emotions) the reader’s real life may not allow.

    Hear hear!  Romance fiction helped form my personal views of behavior I would and would not accept in a relationship.  And how many of us learned about sexual negotiation from reading?  I know I did.

  10. dillene says:

    Christ, that message board with all of the ER stories is classic.

  11. Lori says:

    I know this is just my personal issue but I really, really wish we could agree to use some other term for creepy, bullying “heroes”.  There’s a world of difference between Alpha and Asshat.  Blurring that line pushes every last one of my buttons. 

    That said, Edward sounds like he’s on the wrong side of that line for my taste & I’m going to continue to pass on these books.

  12. Reading all these comments made me think back to a YA novel I read last year that I enjoyed immensely, Keturah and Lord Death by Martine Leavitt.  You can keep ol’ stuck in high school Edward, because in this novel the protagonist (I dare not call him the hero) is the Big Kahuna of the Last Exit himself.

    Keturah is a young woman with dreams for her future.  She also has to make some tough choices, but the beauty of it is, the relationship is strong enough that she’s not being controlled while she makes her choices.  I’d highly recommend this fantasy to readers of any age, but I warn you, have the hankies handy.

  13. ttthomas says:

    >In the Grand Scheme of Things(TM)

    <

    I love this….GSOT

    My 17-year old niece spent 10 days vacation with us this summer, and I made a point to snap several ‘special’ pictures of her because in each one, she was carrying…you better sit down…a book.

    I know, I know. I couldn’t believe it either—thus the photographic proof, which I’m sending to her mother, my sister, as if to say: When she spends time with her aunties, she reads. Each picture a different book. Each book by Stephanie Meyer. Twice we had to take her to the bookstore to get the next Meyer. I usually try to first read anything I give her, but Meyer got ahead of me. Reading this blogpost has been an eye-opening experience, and yet, I am intrigued with any author who can so totally capture the attention of someone who hasn’t read anything since the Pokeman craze.

    Oh wait, I’m wrong—she’s been reading everything Anime. She’s even written some fanfic herself. I read one of the pieces and was appalled to see the rather nasty, alpha male type being so adored by the female who in turn was adored by him. No one else adored either of them. There’s something very sad about how so many teens, disaffected from the harsh world around them, are themselves harsh in their evaluation of everything except…that special, odd, not-so-nice, and yet, sweet-to-them, ‘hero.’

    Whoever said we need a new word might be right. And yet…do we? In the GSOT ™, every generation has

    its own version of Hero, and, as we see, history does, in many ways, repeat itself.

  14. Suze says:

    he’s been reading everything Anime. She’s even written some fanfic herself. I read one of the pieces and was appalled to see the rather nasty, alpha male type being so adored by the female who in turn was adored by him. No one else adored either of them. There’s something very sad about how so many teens, disaffected from the harsh world around them, are themselves harsh in their evaluation of everything except…that special, odd, not-so-nice, and yet, sweet-to-them, ‘hero.’

    I haven’t read Meyers, and probably won’t, but I’m not overly anxious about teen girls imprinting on asshole alphas.  It wears off eventually.

    I think this is kind of a prototypical bad-boy crush thing.  Like fantasizing that your boyfriend is a rock star.  Very cool to dream about, not so cool to live.

    needed17: needed to be a LOT older than 17 to figure that out.

  15. Eunice says:

    1) Very interesting, Sarah. As are the comments (though I haven’t gotten through all of them yet.

    2) It’s been kinda bugging me since I read the first book. Edward Cullen… Barnabus Collins. I’m thinking there my be some influence from Dark Shadows. Not that the characters are necessarilly alike (It’s been forever since I watched reruns with various older figures in my life, so I can’t comment one way or another), but while I was reading I remember thinking, ‘Huh. Subtle.’ But I might’ve been the only one to make that connection, and could be way off….

  16. Jennifer says:

    I was bored on Edward’s behalf.  Really, I was.

    I never really understood that one myself.  The only argument I’ve seen for Edward still going to high school was that information changes as the years pass so it’s a way to catch up on current events and standards.  Which might work, if he wasn’t “only” a hundred, he was getting any use out of those medical degrees he has, and most normal people went back to high school over and over again over their lifetimes to catch up.

    And the age thing is silly as well.  “Well, he only looks seventeen!”  How hard is the phrase, “I’m younger than I look” to say?  I have to say, “I’m older than I look,” all the time (I’m thirty and look twenty, thank the god of gene pools) and I don’t sprain anything doing it.

    I know this is just my personal issue but I really, really wish we could agree to use some other term for creepy, bullying “heroes”.  There’s a world of difference between Alpha and Asshat.

    I used to call a boneheaded moron I worked with Captain Asshat.  That’s up for grabs.  🙂

  17. Lori says:

    I used to call a boneheaded moron I worked with Captain Asshat.  That’s up for grabs.  🙂

    I would totally vote for that.  It’s descriptive, but actually markedly less vulgar that names I’ve given some of the men I’ve worked with 🙂
    And not a single one of the Captain Asshats has been an Alpha anything.  Alpha wanna be, maybe.  Alpha, no.

  18. Leah says:

    I think the relationship of Bella and Edward and the appeal it has to a dismayingly large part of the female population in the U.S is part of a larger swing toward conservative ‘values’ with emphasis on the male provider and the female homemaker who takes care of the babies and who doesn’t need to ‘worry’ about anything because her ‘loving’ alpha has everything, including her, under control.

    See, I think that picture in itself is a fantasy.  I’m a religiously conservative SAHM…but while my husband is the sole breadwinner (at least right now), believe me, it’s me who keeps it all running smoothly (ok, keeps it from veering completely into the ditch).  If something goes wrong with the house, or the car, or the toilet or the inlaws or whatever, it falls to me to figure out the money and the logistics and the tactful replies—and that’s how most of my friends’ marriages operate, too, whether they stay home or not.  I think we all know here that it’s not a big bon-bon fest, with some pliant, adorable children and a husband who just lives to rub our feet and draw us a bath, then sit around and talk about deep feelings, rather than, oh, playing Halo and watching Survivorman.  No matter how conservative you are, or whether or not you get to make the choice to stay home (not everyone can, should, or wants to), you have to be able to take care of yourself and the people who depend on you.  You husband doesn’t exist to supply your every need.  Teenage girls need to be taught this.  The control issue….well, I think that’s more of a personal psychological issue, and not specifically a religious one.  A man who loves his wife the way he is supposed to is not going to try to control and manipulate her.

  19. amy lane says:

    I’m fond of saying that the creepy, bullying heroes (okay, those were Sarah’s words) that were prominent in the romances of the 70’s and 80’s were the same abusive jerks that the heroines were rebounding from in the 90’s and 00’s to make the conflict interesting for the real good guy. 

    Edward IS the guy your father warned you about.  Every girl wants to think that the dark mysterius loner who only loves her really has a heart of gold.  Obsession isn’t fun unless there is some hint (however erroneous) that having your obsession is just as fulfilling as your dream of it.  I remember dreaming about an Edward. 

    And then I stalked and caught the guy I’ve been married to for twenty years and realized how totally boring Edward would be.

    One of the things that really oogies me out is the fact that Bella wanted to LITERALLY die for this guy—and she had no other kisses, no other life-experiences, no other hopes for anything else productive in her life.  Uhm.  Romeo and Juliet, anyone?  Where even the guy guarding Julie’s tomb has to die because he gets in Romeo’s way? 

    But we’ve always dreamt of obsessive, identity subsuming love.  And then we live real life and know better.  Still, I can’t help thinking of Edward and Bella and remembering my friend (yes, Mormon) who got her degree of engineering and then went to live with her husband (with a degree in agriculture) and their two kids on a farm in Visalia, and who quit talking to all of her old pagan friends because, really, what did we have to talk about? 

    Die for your husband indeed.

  20. amy lane says:

    Oh yeah—and can I just say that Anne Bradstreet had her shit published without her permission too, and instead of making her brother-in-law fish his tonsils for his personal bits and going off to pout, she just rewrote the fucking thing and sent out Poetry 2.0?

  21. Laurie says:

    Perhaps some enterprising fanfic writer should redo TWILIGHT in the style of Betty Neels.

    NOW PLZ. *grabby hands*

  22. GrowlyCub says:

    Leah,

    we obviously have different perspectives and experiences.  For example, I was completely bowled over when I found out how many wives of deploying soldiers had no life aka financial skills whatsoever (we live in the South, where the good ole boy network is well and alive and women literally get petted on the head by men who just happen to ‘know better’).  Most of the women couldn’t balance a checkbook, didn’t know what bills the family had and when they were due, how much money their husbands made, how much money was in their checking accounts, etc. (one guy had even managed to convince his wife that he had to pay the Army for drill weekend, instead of the other way around as unbelievable as that sounds!) and they had no idea how to cope with everyday life, besides driving the kids to school and after school activities, with really ugly results in some cases, bill collectors, foreclosures, etc.  And those were not just very young women, but also women in their 30s and 40s.  A real eye-opener and not in a good way.  Edward seems like just that kind of guy and Bella just that kind of woman.

    Certainly, they aren’t all like that as you and your friends prove, but as a semi outside observer I can definitely tell a difference in the attitudes and tolerance level now as compared to 10 years ago and I can’t say I like it, same as I don’t want to read any 70/80s alpha jerks any longer either.

  23. katiebabs says:

    Thanks Sarah. Even though I am a big fan of the Twilight series, I can see where people are coming from.  It makes me wonder if Meyer had Bella fight her attraction or whatever she had for Edward a bit more, what their relationship would really be like. If she did, would Edward indeed be more of a stalker many believe him to already be? Again, I think of Twilight as the ultimate fairy tale for teen girls. To find that boy that makes you feel intense love for the first time, to be protected and placed upon pedestal by the boy and know he is so perfect and only loves you is one fantasy most readers still long for.

  24. Leah says:

    quote]we obviously have different perspectives and experiences.  For example, I was completely bowled over when I found out how many wives of deploying soldiers had no life aka financial skills whatsoever (we live in the South, where the good ole boy network is well and alive and women literally get petted on the head by men who just happen to ‘know better’).  Most of the women couldn’t balance a checkbook, didn’t know what bills the family had and when they were due, how much money their husbands made, how much money was in their checking accounts, etc.[

    I expect you’re right.  I have to say that my father died when I was a teen, leaving my mom with a large family to raise on her own.  She has always been independent, and had to become even more so.  And I lucked out—my dad was very religious, but not at all a chauvinist, and my husband, as well.  My sister married an Army guy, and they seem to balance pretty well, but that is a very different, macho culture—which,in the examples you’ve given, puts women at a disadvantage, since they have to do so much alone.  Also, I am from Indiana, which may seem like another branch of Tennessee and Kentucky, but really isn’t.  So I have little idea of some of the nuances of southern culture.  It’s interesting that you’ve seen that change in the last 10 years….  And kinda sad.  If they’re using religion to justify this kind of treatment (and accepting it), I think there’s plenty of scriptural evidence that they’re mistaken. 

    Wow…my mind is boggling at women not knowing about their own family finances…..

  25. I haven’t read all the comments, or any of these kooky books, but I’m also struck by the urge to defend Edward’s passionate obsession with Bella.  I call this the kill her/kiss her conflict and I LOVE it.  Anne Stuart does it particularly well in her Ice series.  Most of the heroes, who would probably make Edward look like a choir boy in comparison, fully intend to kill the heroine at the start of the novel.  Hell, throughout the novel.

    This kind of hero is dangerous, tortured, and irresistible.  Do I want to date a vampire or a ruthless assassin in real life?  Of course not!  Give teens some credit.  The girls who read Twilight are smart enough to know the difference between a fictional character and a real-life a-hole, too.

  26. Lyra says:

    Most of the heroes, who would probably make Edward look like a choir boy in comparison, fully intend to kill the heroine at the start of the novel.  Hell, throughout the novel.

    Jill, I’m very curious about this Ice series you’re describing. Is there visible growth or sacrifice involved for the hero and/or heroine, and i so, how great of a change are we talking about? I imagine there has to be if there’s any sort of HEA (otherwise I can’t imagine there being anything but a dead heroine at the end of the road).

    Give teens some credit.  The girls who read Twilight are smart enough to know the difference between a fictional character and a real-life a-hole, too.

    I’m reminded of the initial Twilight review Sarah posted a week or so back (and the comments therein). The concern a lot of people have (myself included) is not whether young adults reading these books can distinguish fact from fiction. It is whether they will consider the borderline abusive behavior typical of alpha types acceptable in their own relationships.

  27. Tae says:

    I’ve been thinking about the “stalkerish/creepy” side of Edward that everyone talks about.  From my experiences in high school and college when a guy I was deeply interested in was “stalkerish” it was a good thing.  I liked him, I wanted to see him, I wanted him to be around all the time.  However, if I wasn’t interested in the guy, than it was seriously creepy and I was a little freaked out by it.

    I figure if the feelings are mutual, it’s okay, though not necessarily healthy.  I’ve never been one for couples being one entity and foreswearing their former lives and friends when they reach couplehood. 

    I’ve only read the first two books, and I read New Moon first because it I found it at my guesthouse in Chaing Mai, Thailand.  I got to read it for free.  I found the first book in the used books section of a store in Seoul, Korea a few months later. I’ve enjoyed them.  Alot.  I liked the tension in the second book going back and forth between Jacob and Edward as a match for Bella. 

    Someone said it earlier, but these books are pure fantasy for me as well.  There are a lot of things I accept in a fantasy that I would never put up with in real life.

  28. Lorelie says:

    And the friends of hers that do are the exact ones that shouldn’t. They are already having self esteem and relationship issues from dealing with messy divorces, absent fathers and mothers consumed in their own problems.

    This, along with the whole discussion, has me going shit-shit-shit.

    My 15 yo sister-in-law adores these books.  Last time I was visiting, I even drove her to the bookstore so she could use her birthday money to buy every single one.  I was thrilled, as she hasn’t been a big reader before.

    But she’s already unfocussed, uninterested in school, and has no discernible goals for the future.  Her mother’s prediction for the girl?  “Oh, Lisa will get married right out of high school and start popping out babies.” 

    Shit, shit, shit.  It seems like these might just reinforce everything I worry about regarding Lisa.

    Must go troll GS vs STA threads to see what better YA I can give her.

  29. Rosepixie says:

    Thank you for writing this post.  It was wonderfully insightful and clarified a few things I’d been thinking, but hadn’t been able to really lay out clearly in my head.  I’ve added a link to this post in a blog post that I recently wrote on Pixiepalace about this series.

  30. Aline Riverside says:

    I’m currently 16, and when I started reading the series I was 14 I believe, the first run through I was mesmarized… then I got to the third book and could not decide which of the boys I liked more.

    I recently reread the books and I have to say that Edward does in fact give me the creeps.  Not only is he very stalker-ish he is also so perfect in her eyes that it makes my teeth hurt.  Their is something about him that just bothers me and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.  I am a person with a strong sense of self, I cannot see myself wrapping around anyone, especially not at my age.  Bella’s change from indepenent to dependent is a recurring nightmare of mine.

    I read the third book reguardless of this fact and I have to say what a disappointment, even from a junior in highschool I can see that the relationship is not healthy.

    As a sidepoint on the Harry Potter comparisan, they are oddly similar in their relationships, in the sense that at the end the relationships weren’t healthy.  Potter’s was based on hero warship from Weasley, and you can almost say the same for Bella.

  31. how great of a change are we talking about? I imagine there has to be if there’s any sort of HEA (otherwise I can’t imagine there being anything but a dead heroine at the end of the road).

    Lyra:  Haha, yes, the hero sacrifices a great deal to keep the heroine safe, and the HEA is all the more satisfying because we see a “heartless” killer fall in love.  Cold As Ice won a RITA this year.  Guess I’m not the only one who liked it. *g*

    The concern a lot of people have (myself included) is not whether young adults reading these books can distinguish fact from fiction. It is whether they will consider the borderline abusive behavior typical of alpha types acceptable in their own relationships.

    Well, I can’t say teens and adults are the same, because they aren’t, developing brains and all that, but I’ve read a lot of old-school romances (as a preteen, even) and never been confused about whether abusive behavior is acceptable in my own relationships.

    Thanks for the discussion.

  32. Jana Oliver says:

    Alpha males can work, if used properly. I’m currently reading Lord of the Fading Lands (C.L. Wilson) and she has an Uber Alpha Male as her lead. He’s claimed the heroine as his “truemate” which means he’s maniac about protecting her.

    As the story progresses, he changes as the heroine steps to the fore and begins to take charge of her own destiny. That’s when the Alpha male really works in a story. His alpha-ness has to be balanced by a strong female. Give me growth for both lead characters (and some of the second bananas) and I’m a very happy reader.

  33. Lisa says:

    I’m surprised that nobody’s connecting this to anime. Any Fushigi Yuugi or Sailor Moon fans out there? Edward is totall a novelized rendition of Tamahome or Darien, right down to the excessive beauty and the bilty to make the heroine act like a moron and pine for him all day. But I like the anime heroines better…

  34. Lyra says:

    Edward is totall a novelized rendition of Tamahome or Darien, right down to the excessive beauty and the bilty to make the heroine act like a moron…

    They’re way ahead of you:
    http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=24393

    Let’s not even go into how my modern Japan class’ discussion of gender roles in modern Japan made my skin crawl…

  35. karmelrio says:

    Agreed, Jill.  I really like Anne Stuart’s “Ice” series.  These heroes (and one heroine) are members of a covert intelligence organization, and do not hesitate to maim and kill to accomplish their mission – it’s just part of the job, and they excel at it.  At the beginning of the books, the heroines tend to stand in the way of the operative completing the mission successfully, and the operative has no problem with the heroine possibly becoming collateral damage, being sacrificed for the greater good.  As the book goes on, the operative gets to know the heroine, makes many sacrifices, falls in lurve, and significantly changes his worldview – to the degree that most of the heroes retire from the organization so they can begin a non-violent life with the heroine. 

    The heroes’ emotional evolution is really well done, and very satisfying.  But I think this is possible because the baseline motivation of these characters is that they kill for the greater good – for their government.  The killings are “sanctioned.”  I think this is an important distinction.

  36. izzy says:

    and that is why i prefer jacob.

  37. kopperhead says:

    I haven’t read the Twilight Series, and do not plan to, but Ms. Meyer should just get over her hissy fit and finish the book so the devoted fans who made it possible for her to continue to publish can have closure. That said, it is unfortunate that the leak happened and I can completely understand what she says about that affecting how she would continue to write the book. It could possibly affect the outcome of the book for the better, no? If I had been a devotee of Twilight and Meyer, I would take this as an affront and never again buy a book written by her. Nevertheless, I wish her the best of luck and hope she finishes it.

  38. Chelsea says:

    You definitely make valid points. There’s a reason those heroes have been around so long, why they have continued to hold appeal decade after decade. For some people, quaint old-fashioned romances may not be what they are looking for, and maybe all-consuming love makes people uncomfortable. As for me, I fell hard for Edward, and whether or not he is “creepy” is not an issue. He’s creepy out of love. He has flaws, she has flaws, but if the reader lets themselves get swept up in that dramatic, I-will-die-for-you love story, it’s magic. One must remember that the books aren’t guides to life. Maybe the relationship isn’t healthy, but no one’s saying it should be.

  39. DS says:

    I find the fact that Edward is the person in charge of whether or not they have sex or Bella is vamped to be very creepy.  It’s more controlling behavior. 

    I have nothing against nonsexual stories although I wouldn’t bother reading anything that was a jeremiad against sexual activity and in favor of the presexual state.  That’s not a store, it’s a tract.  (Virgin is way too loaded a word for some discussions).  But where one character is in charge reminds me a lot of those icky Nicole Jordan books where the male character would repeatedly excite the heroine then to punish her (or for some other stupid reason) he would back off only to do it all over again a chapter or so.  The heroine never seemed to catch on what was happening so she neither consented or enjoyed it.

  40. Jenna says:

    Lots believe that Edward was going down the path of an abuser, I think he’s already there. All during the series Edward is contantly manipulating Bella in order to get her to do exactly what he wants. It’s just disgusting. But, lots of young readers seem to only believe that he cares for her so much he must know what’s best for her. In New Moon the second book in the series there is a chapter titled “Vote” ( not sure but I think it is) where Bella wants Edward’s family to vote on her becoming a vampire. Edward does not like the way the voting session is going and grabs Bella’s face in a way that she cannot speak and screams, no, no, no down on top of her head while his family just stood around and watched. Then Edward shuffles Bella out of the back door and takes her home where he “shushes” Bella when she begins to speak, so he can think of a way to manipulate the situation to his advantage.

    I’ve never like these characters. My reading of the series was work related. Thank goodness that assignment is over.

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