Thanks to Mel Francis and Funky Bunny for the tip: as part of a promotion of Danielle Steel’s new book, the Today show is hosting a quiz: Do you Read Romance Novels?
And of course, there’s no “yes” or “no” option – there’s “yes” or “no” with patronizing embellishments! And no room for comments for me to say, “BITE ME you sanctimonious fucknuts.” You can say, “Yes, yes, yes! Bodice-rippers are my ultimate escape” or “No way. I don’t touch those books.” Or, if you’re feeling really ambivalent about the state of your bodice, “Sometimes, while on vacation or at the beach.”
The poll results reveal that many, many respondents seem to equate “touching a romance novel” akin to “cleaning out the sink trap,” “fishing a really noxious booger out of someone else’s nose,” or “taking out the trash.”
Here. Have a More Funner Poll:
If I had my bodice ripped I would think it was hot and then later ask for money to get my dress fixed.
Ev – that is so true. The doctor who did mine – he also did my sister some 15 years ago – said that every woman he’s ever done one for was happy – he NEVER met a reduction patient who regretted it. Some women regret getting them enlarged, no one regrets getting them cut off. You suddenly have a visible waist – it’s incredible.
The pain was somewhat less than I’d expected, and Darvocet was plenty strong enough to handle it. I attended a New Years Eve party two days later with my bandages all peeping out of my top (it was family and close friends).
You can’t pick up anything >5 pounds for a few weeks, so that was kind of difficult cause I had a small child, but that was the only difficulty.
I LOVE my boobs. I know that sounds icky, but I just…I love them.
Holly—I know enough people in your situation that it doesn’t sound icky at all. I’m happy for you!
Cora:
(I love learning industry inside info like this. ^___^)
(Holy alliteration!)
I can see this. A magazine I worked for had to cut 20 percent of every article for the Japanese edition, kanji being larger than Roman type. The translator wouldn’t be responsible for marketing decisions or final-content judgement calls. Actually, I think cuts were made by editorial before the copy went to the translation department.
They really didn’t cover any of what you’re saying in my class. It was all theoretical: Did the absence of sex reflect Italian sensibilities (the Italian students were divided on this), or did all the sex being there in the first place represent American public repression busting out in the privacy of literature, and which countries had laws that stayed out of the bedrooms of private citizens NOT LIKE YOU YANKS (at which point I hid under my desk, as the only Yank there)…
Needless to say, the industry info would have been slightly more relevant to my current life.
Re: the weirdness of Fern Michaels
If I remember correctly “Ms. Michaels” is actually two people who each write different parts of the book. I read one and got the impression that they don’t communicate very well when it comes to putting the parts together. Thus, the weird.
How dare they call them bodice rippers. Everyone knows it’s referred to as “porn” these days!
I thought Fern Michaels was sisters. One of them had a son or spouse named Michael. Maybe both. I could be dreaming this.
Eh, I don’t really disdain the old romances, because styles change and the stuff was according to contemporary sensibilities at that time. Having just turned 40 (dammit, dammit, dammit), my formative years were spent reading Fern Michaels, Danielle Steele, VC Andrews (version 1), Patricia Matthews, Bertrice Small…
Most of those books wouldn’t interest me today, but I love them when I was a kid, and indeed they answered some questions about the birds and the bees I couldn’t ask elsewhere. And I took a whole lot of grief from teachers. Well, once I got out of Catholic School where the VC was well hidden in my book bag. Those teachers taught me the meaning of condescending.
Styles and sensibilities will continue to change, and twenty years most of the books in favor now will seem dated. It happens, and it’s okay, because the writers then will still owe a debt to the women I read and the ones who are read today.
girls54: Nah, this girl is only 40. (Dammit, dammit, dammit!)
Nicolette: word, sister (I am 44. still getting used to it).
I read bodice rippers – the old timey stuff, Kathleen E. Woodiwiss, Rosemary Rogers, Tender Loving Rape and that kind of stuff – in junior high, which was the 70s (my mom monitored my TV and movies, never glanced at what I read; the romance stuff did no lasting damage but after reading The Last Picture Show at age 11, it took me YEARS to work up the nerve to read McMurtry again. As I recall, it was something about the heiffer….don’t ask.)
Anyway, yes, the styles do change; back in the 70s the heroines were all impossibly sheltered 17 year olds and the action would today probably be called BDSM and sometimes it really was rape -am I remember correctly? I mean, modern romances still tend to feature virgins who enjoy their first time, noviates who spontaneously decide that going down seems like a delicious thing to do, etc. etc., but I when I remember the bodice rippers from the 70s, I tend to think “ick! we thought that was okay?”
According to Wikipedia, Fern Michaels is one female person:
Of course, Wikipedia is not always right!
🙂
Okay, I’ll say this…in a whisper…I have been reading bodice rippers since I was a teen and found my mother’s stash. Of course, back then, the ripping wasn’t quite so graphic (darn!) as it is now.
But even now, twenty years later (ok, thirty!), I’m drawn to tales of the south, when women were either wealthy and graceful or impoverished and had to marry the nearest land owner to survive. And what about those men? Strong, lurking hulks with attitude! ‘Calgon, take me away!’
Nothing like a good dose of fantasy before reality slaps you in the face. Let the ripping begin!
Cheryl Kaye Tardif,
suspense author
(ok, I add a bit of spicy romance to the mix, but nothing like my mother’s books—YET! lol)
Huh, I was sure I remembered Fern Michaels being a pen name for two people, derived from a house plant and the fact that both women were married to men named Michael. I really hope Wikipedia is wrong because if I made up that houseplant thing I’m seriously worried about myself.
Sorry, Lori. Fern Michaels is one person, but she sees herself as two…
From Accessmy library.com:
Fern Michaels is the pen name and alter-ego of Kuczkir, and Fern, the author, occasionally peeks out behind Mary’s eyes. Kuczkir makes the distinction between her two personas. “Fern acts like a lady. She wears Armani, drives a Mercedes Benz, wears Bruno Magli shoes, loves Chanel handbags and sports a few diamonds on her ears and fingers. “Mary drives a four-wheel drive, wears sneakers and blue jeans, drinks beer and smokes cigarettes,” Kuczkir says with a smile…
Cheryl Kaye Tardif, suspense author
Darn. My only comfort is that I think that’s a little weirder than my imagined houseplant.
Can’t comment on it any better than what Barbara Vey said at her blog:
first off…who in their right mind would take the TODAY SHOW seriously…i’m 57 and remember when it did mean…something…now it’s a bunch of “pretty”people trying to upstage each other while discussing meaningless topics…with KATHIE LEE on board that ship is sinking fast….so what they don’t know about Romance Fiction is proportional to what they don’t know about jackshit to begin with…we’re all safe then they count for naught my sweeties…what is a good bodice ripper anyway? i need titles!
first off…who in their right mind would take the TODAY SHOW seriously…i’m 57 and remember when it did mean…something…now it’s a bunch of “pretty”people trying to upstage each other while discussing meaningless topics…with KATHIE LEE on board that ship is sinking fast….so what they don’t know about Romance Fiction is proportional to what they don’t know about jackshit to begin with…we’re all safe then they count for naught my sweeties…what is a good bodice ripper anyway? i need titles!
first off…who in their right mind would take the TODAY SHOW seriously…i’m 57 and remember when it did mean…something…now it’s a bunch of “pretty”people trying to upstage each other while discussing meaningless topics…with KATHIE LEE on board that ship is sinking fast….so what they don’t know about Romance Fiction is proportional to what they don’t know about jackshit to begin with…we’re all safe then they count for naught my sweeties…what is a good bodice ripper anyway? i need titles!
first off…who in their right mind would take the TODAY SHOW seriously…i’m 57 and remember when it did mean…something…now it’s a bunch of “pretty”people trying to upstage each other while discussing meaningless topics…with KATHIE LEE on board that ship is sinking fast….so what they don’t know about Romance Fiction is proportional to what they don’t know about jackshit to begin with…we’re all safe then they count for naught my sweeties…what is a good bodice ripper anyway? i need titles!
Judith Michael is the husband and wife team of Judith Barnard and Michael Fain
I remember seeing their books on the shelves when I was reshelving the Fern Michaels books.
I love that working in a public library teaches me things like this
the only husband and wife writing team I’ve ever liked was Tom and Sharon Curtis, who as Laura London wrote my all time favorite romance novel – EVA – called The Windflower. First romance I ever read (this was years ago) that was really well written – lyrical, moving, funny, poignant, with three dimensional characters and obscure literary references and everything. Love that book. I think readers bugged them for a while to do a sequel featuring Cat – the cabin boy-slash-heir to an Earldom with blonde hair down to his butt, a childhood spent in a Carribean brothel (he was merchandise), and an indeterminate (or at least unspecified) sexual orientation. I mean really, I’d never dreamed a romance novel would go places like that – maybe that was one of the first, I’m not really up on the historical progression of romance fiction (not being facetious – I know that there has been progressive development in the romance genre, and I think it’s worthy of study, particularly as it relates to and reflects popular culture – as in, Rosemary Rogers and the 70s. discuss.)
And with that thread jack, I depart.
Please. Today has the WORST interviewers EVER.- Lauer, Viera, Gibson and now TSTL Gifford?!! Today lost any claim to valid journalistic integrity years ago!
Holly,
Oh, there was definite rape. It was pretty standard. But it was okay, because he was the hero. (Yes, I am being sarcastic.) I remember one book where the heroine lost her virginity to a rape by the hero, he continued to have hate sex her during a sea voyage, he falls off the ship (maybe, anyhow, he’s gone for a while), the crew rapes her, causing her to miscarry the hero’s baby, she eventually has an affair with a pirate, meets the hero again, finds out he’s married, continues to have violent and misogynistic sex with him, marries a guy she later finds out is gay, is sold into white slavery by the hero’s wife where she is raped again, hooks up with the hero again, becomes pregnant, runs off, and the hero comes looking for her after his wife is killed by her insane and bisexual cousin.
I clearly remember the hero looking at the son he didn’t know he had with a look of “stuptified amazement,” which spell check is telling me isn’t a word.
Anyhow, back then there seemed to be some sort of weird belief that a hero had to be mean, and was vindicated by the fact that the heroine orgasmed when he forced himself on her, and I swear that a whole lot of readers must have bought into it. Of course, these were the days of Luke and Laura.
Even the category stuff bought into it. A woman in a Harlequin had a good chance of making it through the book with her virginity, but there was still a lot of forceful stuff at the hands of some playboy count who was 15 years older or so. Often the playboy count would think the heroine was a tramp, which was laughable because the standard heroine was a blushing, simpering innocent. I remember one book, a Harlequin, I’m thinking the writer was a woman named Jessica Steele, in which the hero attempts to rape the heroine—thinking she is the town bike, which makes it okay—and the heroine tells him that when he realizes what he’d done self-disgust would rise up like bile in his throat.
That’s right—I can remember Harlequins from nearly 30 years ago, but I can’t remember my telephone number some days. 🙂
The first “bodice ripper” I ever read was Blaze of Passion by Stephanie Blake, and I think that was a guy writing under a female pen name. The most memorable things about it was the light bulb moment when I found out about erections—my friend had told me the basics about, but the missing detail was the turgidness—and thinking the heroine, who was in her thirties at the end, was really old.
Patricia Matthews was my favorite. The heroine was usually with two different men, and the way you knew which one was the hero was to read carefully and decipher which one was more hung. Sometimes the heroine would just gape at it. Well, I’m sure she was gaping after, too, but let’s not go there.
The first Harlequin I read was Yesterday’s Scars by Carole Mortimer. The hero’s name might have been Ran, but I could be confusing the name with a guy in a Barbara Michaels book. This was back when category writers mentioned hard thighs a lot, and we were supposed to pick up on the euphemism. If they were bold, they’d talk about manhoods. If tornadoes or vortexes were mentioned it meant the heroine had orgasmed.
I loved me some Janet Dailey as a kid—before she lost her mind and started thinking she was Nora Roberts.
And this has been: Tales of An Old Chick’s Bodice Ripper Reading Past. Where did I leave my glasses?
Holly- I was just gifted with a copy of the Windflower by a fellow Bella over at Lifetime. She is always going on and on and on about it. So when she came up with a copy (do you know they sell for $30 and more, in pb???), I snagged it. I wanted to see what all the hype was about.
I am soooo glad that I did. It is by far now one of my fave books. I spent an afternoon sitting on my swing outside just devouring it. (It was close to 100 degrees outside- so I put a fan on me, instead of getting up and going in. I didn’t want to be disturbed by anything.)
I really wish they had written a follow up to it with Cat. I did find an interview with them that said they were writing another book, but it never came to be. That was there last one for some reason.
As for the boobs, I just had a hysterectomy in March and there was a woman across the hall from me who had a reduction and went home the next day. Said she was sore but it wasn’t too bad. I don’t think she remembers that in the middle of the night she was screaming in pain. The surgery is actually my next step. Between my dr and I we will get the insurance to pay for it- backaches and headaches need to go away. I, however, am using it as a bribe to myself, once I lose more weight. Otherwise I will be off balance or out of wack, or just out of proportion.
I have had the big boobs since 6th grade but then it was more of a Dolly Parton look- I was a size 2. Now I have lost 35 lbs and have more to lose. I will get there someday.
Ev: I had a hysterectomy a year before the breast reduction. The hyseterectomy was way more painful. I can’t believe WF is selling for $30.00 – I need to track down a copy – this will be like my third, and I’m not losing this one! I’m an English lit major. I barely remember any poetry and I can’t quote the classics, but I remember whole lines from The Windflower.
Nicolette: girl, you are bringing back memories; I hadn’t thought about those old books in years. I remember exactly how shocked I was reading about erections, cause that was how I first learned the mechanics of the whole thing. Of course, for years afterwards I thought it was standard for a man and a woman to orgasm simulatneously.
Even back then I didn’t have any patience for the “clouds of bliss” and “throbbing manhoods” style – I wanted details. I think I remember Janet Dailey’s first “explicit”, non-Harlequin romance – it involved a chick who got involved with a South American revolutionary – in one scene he whipped her – like, whipped her, in front of other people – but it was necessary, you see, cause she had challeneged his authority and everyone’s life depended on him, and he needed everyone’s loyalty and he couldn’t be seen to favor her – or something stupid like that.
There was another one in the Southern plantation subgenre – the heroine was an English chick who was raped and subsequently married off to a pirate/planation owner; there’s a scene with her, the hero and his brother back at the plantation, and they’re trying to get her to talk with a Southern accent, and she tries but it comes out like the slaves’ accents. And they all think that’s just hi-larious.
And then there was Rosemary Rogers, who I remember as a kind of Jackie Susann type – very much a product and exemplar of the whole sick 70s culture.
And Nicolette, you’re my new BTF (Best Thread Friend) for your use of the word turgidness.
LOL – Great come back. My favourite is the person who smirks and makes a comment such as, “Oh ah, you, like read those books, my Mom (meaning an “old” person such as myself with a bodice) like reads those (grimance of facial expression) too.”
I usually respond, “Did you know that ‘like’ is a preposition used in the English language to introduce a simile? Therefore, you have used the word ‘like’ in an incorrect context on 2 occassions in that sentence. Perhaps if you read a book, or was awake in English class in school you may know the correct use of the preposition ‘like’.” I know – mean. But, hey, if you dish it out you must learn to take it too!!!
It does seem that television hosts have “interview favourites”, no matter what the area of discussion. But, Collins and Steele? Pleese, not good examples of romance writing at its best…
Having said that, I don’t watch the “Today Show”, (too busy reading bodice rippers) but maybe a topic for discussion on that show could be English language and grammatical usage. No, too boring and likely beneath Kathi Lee….
Oops – sorry – I’m changing topic – I think bodice rippers – reading them, that is, was the area (no pun intended) under discussion. Right there with all you ladies – reading them and ripping….. Enjoyed all your comments, you are too funny!!!
EV: I had a breast reduction, too. Um.. lemme think…fourteen years ago. The surgery has changed a lot since I had it, and the pain was totally manageable, then, and now.
The main difference as I understand it is technique. There’s also a greater chance of preserving ability to breastfeed now vs. then. I couldn’t make a meal out of what milk I had for either of my children. I was more like a snack – post partum I named my boobs Ben & Jerry. But my friend’s surgeon assured her that her ability to breastfeed should be mostly intact.
But in terms of pain, no worries. Percocet and then Tylenol were all I needed for the first week or so.
Rosemary Rogers! I remember her. She had a series of books with the same characters—Steve in Ginny—who never seemed to learn any relationship skills. They just kept repeating the same mistakes again and again.
Years later there was a book with their daughter as the heroine and Ginny discussed when she first met Steve and he mistook her for a hooker. Somehow it didn’t seem as romantic.
I think on eof the things that has changed is that few of the characters back then were compatible outside of the insane lust. If they were real people they would pretty much be Denise Richards and Charlie Sheen. Or Pamela and Tommy Lee.
Thank you guys for the pep talk on the boob reduction. At least I won’t have to worry about breast feeding anymore. Especially at my age. Maybe that will be my 50th b’day present to myself!!
The hysterectomy was just so fun. they did it laproscopically (and only took the uterus, so menopause wasn’t triggered) but it hurt like a bitch especially after they took my morphine drip away. Bastards. that was a nice 3 day stay in the hospital. And I needed it. No roomie either. And our maternity ward has these nice, new comfy gel beds that move six ways to sunday.
I have been off work since the end of March and have to go back in July. Don’t want to. I really need to find a new job. sigh.
I had an emergency C section two days before the hysterectomy – which means I got the vertical cut, instead of the nice horizontal one. And a C-section leaves you with the brown paper bag flap on your tummy. There’s a plastic surgeon in town – and he’s apparently really good, he’s done many of my sister’s friends – who is offering a special on tummy tucks this summer. No, I can’t justify the expense. No, I’m not the type of woman who gets, or thinks about getting, plastic surgery. Yes, I’d do it if my husband would let me spend the money. I could get it for 18 months, no interest credit!! I’d love for the stomach to match the boobs. But alas….
Anyone ever read a romance where the heroine has a C section stomach? Maybe I should write one…
I vaguely remember a book about a herione with a c-section, but of course, I think she had a perfect stomache after and just a small scar. Go figure. I think it was years and years ago. One of those dr. ones.
I would love a tummy tuck too. And suck my thighs. I don’t care about gray hair and wrinkles.