Thanks to the multiple Bitchery readers who forwarded this over. Erotica author and editor Zane emailed a DC-area email loop the following account of how her latest book is facing an uphill battle in terms of finding places in which to advertise. Why? Because it’s Black erotica? Nope. Because it’s gay. Specifically, according to Zane’s email, lesbian erotica. Read on
Zane’s Apology for the Status of Today’s World
At first, I was going to hold my tongue about this issue; I really was. When one of the biggest National chain bookstores informed my publicist that my latest book was “too racy” for me to do signings there, I discussed it with a few people and let it go. When a book club service that has carried every last one of my other titles decided “to pass” on this one because they did not feel it fit their demographics, I let it go. But, there is always that proverbial last straw and that straw broke the camel’s back last night. I received an “Apology” email from a person who runs an online magazine. It was an apology to her subscribers because someone was offended by her promotion of my latest title. She vowed to not promote any more erotica or books that were not PG-13 rated. I emailed her back to ask if that includes street fiction or roughly 85% of the novels on the market that have some form of violence, profanity, or sexual content.
The book that I am referring to is “Purple Panties: The Eroticanoir.com Anthology.” Now there have been many Eroticanoir.com Anthologies, including “Succulent: Chocolate Flava 2” that just celebrated six weeks on the New York Times Bestseller List earlier this year. No one had a problem with that anthology or any of the ones before it. They sold them like candy, threw them in the front windows of bookstores and had huge displays, and made them the automatic shipments for book club members. From day one, with “The Sex Chronicles: Shattering the Myth,” I have never toned down my content. It has always been what is has been. All of a sudden, there is “an issue.”
The only difference between “Purple Panties” and the nearly two dozen other titles that I have written or edited is that it is a collection of LESBIAN EROTICA. To that, I say shame on it all. It saddens me that we still live in a world that is so sexually oppressed. Now I am not saying that people need to rush out and read the book, or any of my books. I am saying, point blank, that people have a ton of sexual hang-ups that they need to get over. Everything is not for everybody but to “be offended,” to claim that a book is “too racy” for book signings but “Succulent” was not too racy a couple of months ago, nor “Dear G Spot” before that, or the book before that and so on, makes the real rationale behind it obvious. Will they feel that same way when “Honey Flava” comes out two weeks from now or “Another Time, Another Place” in early June? “Zane’s Sex Chronicles” in August? “Sensualidad: Caramel Flava 2” in August? Will they feel that same way when my next full-length novel “Total Eclipse of the Heart” comes out in November? “Head Bangers 2: An APF Sexcapade” in March? Will those books be “too racy” for book signings or to be featured?
Do not mistake this as some sort of plea to sell books. “Purple Panties” is currently #442 on Amazon.com, just as high, or higher, in rank than any book that I have ever put out. It will sell like crazy because it is a book that was long overdue. There are millions of people in this world in same gender loving (SGL) relationships. Who has the right to judge them, or tell them what they should or should not do with their lives?
This saddens me because I have now gotten a glimpse, just a tiny, miniscule glimpse of the discrimination that homosexual and bisexual people face in this world; especially in American society. Eleven years ago I set out on a quest to liberate and empower women”both sexually and overall. To know that we still have such a very long way to go is disappointing. I am not a lesbian but not because I have anything against it. I am just attracted to men. However, I now consider myself an “honorary lesbian” because I am pissed off at the injustices directed towards them and their gay male counterparts.
I am not going to go on and on about this but I had to speak on it. Life goes on.
Blessings,
Zane
P.S. Do not think that, for one second, this will deter me from my path. “Missionary No More: Purple Panties 2” is complete and will be released on schedule next January. “Flesh to Flesh” edited by Lee A. Hayes, a collection of GAY EROTICA, will be released later this month. I am proud of that book as well. People love as they love; not as directed.
I’m curious – is there a bias against lesbian erotica? Has anyone encountered this bias in their own work in the past? I know that a few erotica publishers have mentioned in passing that f/f erotica is not among their biggest sellers – is there a lack of interest in reading female-centered sexual content, or is there a blockage getting it to the marketplace altogether? I know there are different types of discrimination faced more by lesbians than by gay men, but are booksellers reacting to a perceived lack of demand for f/f erotica and protecting their bottom line, or is there a decided aversion to anything lesbian? Your thoughts?
Sad. I read mostly M/F and M/M romance, but I’ve read quite a few F/F romances and while they’re not my first choice, I certainly don’t avoid them. I don’t see anything disturbing, dirty, or uncomfortable about F/F romance. Emma Holly writes great F/F scenes. I wonder if she had this kind of trouble selling her books. The Black Lace imprint has tons of F/F content, and I see them all the time on mainstream romance shelves. What’s the difference? I’ve always wondered why the M/M market is booming, but people still seem to have such a problem with F/F. I wish I knew the answers.
I don’t think it’s considered a hang-up unless you are trying to shove your preference on to someone else or use that preference to sensor/ repress others.
Not necessarily. I think my husband is a typical male where sex is concerned. He likes to watch f/f, but gets really squicked by m/m. We’ve discussed threesomes and he’s all for f/f/m, but against m/m/f. He’s not the least bit comfortable with homosexuality where it pertains to men, but has no problem with it when it pertains to women. I think some women are like that as well.
I am gazing into my own personal Marketing crystal ball, (I predicted the paranormal and fantasy boom in 1996 in the local RWA newsletter so my balls are pretty good!) And I predict that the f/f m/m etc market will begin to expand in five years or so and will continue to grow to a pretty fair plateau.
Here is the deal. I have a 19 year old neice and got to hear (ENDLESSLY my poor auntie ears!) about her friends’ sexual exploits. (they might not talk about their own, but gossip endlessly about others) a surprising number of her buddies tried the other side of the street or thought about it. They will not have the same attitude as readers that are holding the genre back right now.
I think the IDEA of same gender sexuality will become rather commonplace and the market will expand to the level it should actually represent.
Two caveats: Lesbian fiction and f/f sex are NOT the same thing. One is cutlural and the other isn’t. I even predict ‘sweet’ Lesbian romance becoming a fairly hot item.
It sort of follows the timeline of other romance. Sweet sells first then sensual, sort of dinner before the kiss.
The other caveat: The market superstar. Somewhere out there is someone who can write a lesbian romance so good that straights will enjoy it even if they skip over the sex scenes. (I know a TON of middle aged ladies who do that with overly spiced romances now.)
Writing is about STORY. From literature to porn, a good story draws readers. The best example is that wordy but still VERY hot
Fannie Hill. Now over a hundred and fifty years old- that dangerous lady has a new edition due out in June ‘08
My point is, don’t throw out those MS. They may yet find a home.
I have to say, the reason I don’t find F/F romances/erotica appealing is because I associate the images with porn, and, fairly or unfairly, I probably expect the quality of the writing to be approximately the same.
I am also not crazy about explicit covers of any romances/erotica, whether “normative” or not, because makes me less likely to read the book (I fear the cover image is overcompensating, in an attempt to hide bad, unsexy writing).
OMG I just did the math! Fannie Hill is actually 260 years old this year!
I am sad to say this doesn’t surprise me. LGBT is shelved in its own “ghetto†in most bookstores; given that AA books are generally shelved separately as well, PURPLE PANTIES had two strikes against it.
But wouldn’t that be immaterial? My experience has been that the “erotica” thing trumps them all; most mainstream bookstores I’ve been in like to segregate the sexy stuff even more than the identity-based stuff. So all erotica would go together, possibly with sections within the erotica area depending on the store.
snarkhunter expressed everything I was feeling and didn’t know how to say…someone said that they had never heard a woman or girl say their parts are icky – but I think that’s just a symptom of the problem. How many women grow up NEVER discussing or mentioning anything about their genitals except perhaps, when their mother first shows them pads/tampons? On the other hand, guys are forever talking about their equipment, naming it, etc…it’s commonly known and more or less ‘accepted’ that guys masturbate, but how many young women would admit to ever touching that part of their bodies except during their periods?
You may see more nude women than men on TV and in movies, but have you EVER seen an actual vagina? Most women’s pubic hair covers it if you’re standing up, and even if it’s shaved, there’s not much to see unless she has her legs open. But there have been a few penises shown in mainstream media.
Anyways, though neither m/m or f/f interest me, I’m sure there’s a market for it, however ‘niche’, so any excuses of that nature ring totally false to me.
I don’t write lesbian or gay erotica exclusively, however, I have written and gotten published a book about swapping partners called FASCINATION STREET. There was an all out orgy scene in it, F/F scenes, M/M scenes, M/F/F scenes. You name it, it was in there. So far I’ve signed it at Waldens and Barnes and Noble without a problem. Of course, the cover of the book is way more tamer than Zane’s PURPLE PANTIES. I don’t know if that makes a difference.
BridgeT
http://www.BridgetMidway.com
From my point of view, the issue at the heart of this discussion isn’t if there is a market for lesbian sex or f/f in the romance genre.
The issue for me is that publishers are actively saying no to even receiving f/f content, or asking authors to take it out of their work. Reviewers are actively dismissing (or worse) f/f content—not books, but paragraphs or scenes in otherwise hetero books. And booksellers are apologizing for letting one of those pesky f/f books slip through the cracks?!
Doing those things isn’t a matter of taste or preference, its not even a question of quality of the work itself—its dismissing something because its lesbian.
I makes it hard for me to believe the “no market for it” explanation when its the very forces in the marketplace which are dismissing f/f content—the publishers, the reviewers, the authors, the booksellers.
Are the same people who are willing to read m/m erotica objecting to f/f erotica?
—I don’t read f/f because it has the same effect on me that a cold shower does…it turns me off completely. I wouldn’t buy f/f for the same reason. Conversely, I would read m/m because it turns me on and would gladly buy it. I don’t “object” to f/f erotica per se. If people want it, they should be able to get it, just like those of use who want stories with the h/h ending up with babies should be able to get them. I just want to know about it ahead of time so I don’t have to buy what I don’t want.
Why would one be less objectionable or more acceptable than the other?
—Why do some people really love chocolate cake and hate chocolate ice cream? People have different preferences, sexually as well as otherwise. Why should I like f/f erotica when I don’t? Why shouldn’t I like the idea of two men getting it on?
As I said before, I’m not the audience f/f writers want. I’d prefer to know about f/f content, as it would mean I wouldn’t waste my money or time on something I dislike. But if you like it, go ahead and buy it in bulk. Just don’t rail at me because I dislike it. I dislike some other romance elements that others on here adore to the max. It happens.
I can’t get over the fact that this is Zane. Zane, for crying out loud! The fact that there is a bookstore in the world (aside from a religious bookstore……which I assume wouldn’t sell any erotic romances) that wouldn’t sell a book by Zane is astonishing to me. ZANE!!! She could slap her name on an Aldi’s ad and I would have to buy 200 (150 of which would be promptly stolen……) for the library because the demand would be through the roof.
Crazy.
As for the f/f vs. m/m vs. m/f thing……I haven’t read any f/f books. I can’t get excited about the m/m books because I’m too busy wondering what they’d be like with ME not with him. 🙂
Seriously, not selling or hosting Zane. Wow.
As far as readers complaining about f/f… My novels have always been heterosexual, but some of the ebooks a few years ago had a little f/f in some scenes.
The few complaints I remember receiving about a few of my books were the f/f scenes. They were playful scenes, not serious relationships. Usually the male was around somewhere. But women felt uncomfortable with the f/f part. Personally I feel more comfortable with f/f than I do with m/m for some reason, even though I have nothing against it. Now m/f/m is fun. 🙂
WORD
Girl you took the words right out of my mouth*—literally! My mother could barely tell me about my period and we NEVER discussed sex. It’s not what we’re told but what we’re shown.
*for the record I’m 38
Even my conservative 87 year old grandmother doesn’t mind reading about f/f. I pick out interesting books for her to read (she doesn’t get out too much) and recently, with a little trepidation, got her Fingersmith by Sarah Waters. It’s a beautiful story that happens to have an f/f love story in it. I didn’t tell grandma about the romance, but she asked me about it later. We talked about it and she felt the story was real and touching, not to mention a darn good story. Since then I’ve shared more Sarah Waters’ books, Karen Joy Fowler’s books and other lesbian-themed books with her. Neither of us are lesbians, but love is love. If it’s a compelling story, we’ll read it.
Totally. I’m sure that’s part of it. I remember being feeling awkward about it myself…but not to the point I would burst into tears and talk about wanting to kill myself because it was so gross to grow up. (But perhaps that’s just my messed up kid, lol.)
As far as thinking women’s bodies are beautiful, I always felt that way too as did my self professed feminist girlfriends in college…yet not one of them had ever taken a mirror and looked “down there” and not one would admit to giving herself pleasure or exploring her own sexuality because that was “gross”. And I graduated form a very liberal NY school in 2000. These were recent times and girls from across the country who were so repressed and skeeved they didn’t want to explore their bodies. Only the future smut writer admitted to such things.
So anyway, not saying the points in quotes aren’t valid, but there are other POVs as well. And there are at least some of us out there who felt like the odd bird out for NOT thinking it was rather gross to be a woman. Or at least gross to be a sexual woman in touch (literally and figuratively) with her genitals :).
Anna J. Evans
I’m not entirely convinced by the argument that f/f would be found “icky” by most readers of erotic romance because it involves vaginas. The reason I’m not convinced is that even “hot” but not “erotic” romances quite often include long descriptions of the hero masturbating the heroine with his fingers or tongue, and there are plenty of descriptions of how dripping/damp/wet the heroine is getting in response to the hero. If that sort of description of female bodies/vaginas is acceptable in m/f romances, that suggests to me that the main problem that people have with f/f is not to do with the presence of descriptions of vaginas and other female body parts.
That’s not to say that some women don’t find vaginas “icky” or even women’s whole bodies “icky,” just that if large numbers of women readers don’t want to read f/f but do read m/f or m/m of an equivalent level of “hotness,” then I think it must have more to do with something about f/f that isn’t the presence of descriptions of vaginas.
[and the security word is member81, which makes me wonder if the security system has a preference for m/m orgies]
But, Cat, it IS the case. This seems real simple to me. Men wanting men is not all that different from women wanting men. We’re attracted to essentially the same things.
Quite frankly, lesbian erotica is a huge turn-off for me; gay male erotica, just the opposite. I suspect most erotic-romance readers—who are, let’s face it, largely straight women with a smattering of gay men—would rather read about the glories of hard dick than of “slippery folds” and oozing va-jay-jay. I know I would. The latter just has way too much squick factor.
Ellora’s Cave (and who better to know this?) claims that f-f erotic romance just doesn’t sell. So, based on my own reactions and EC’s assessment of the marketplace, I’m not surprised at the widespread resistance to f-f erotic romance. And, yes, it does have longstanding porn associations, so there’s the backlash element, too.
Count me in with the women who love m/m and are left un-titillated by f/f. The male movie porn depiction of f/f may have something to do with it, but primarily it’s because I identify mostly hetero. And two guys emotionally involved is just a powerful female fantasy as far as I’m concerned.
Two women emotionally involved isn’t that much of a mystery to me, so I agree with the poster who said f/f is boring. I’m a woman, I know what I feel and how I react to emotionally and sexually charged situations, but seeing in writing what a guy feels, that’s interesting.
So here’s one reason why there is a market for m/m and not for f/f. There’s no doubt in my mind that there are women who are homophobe and disgusted by the idea of f/f, but it’s not the only reason for the lack of interest in f/f.
I suspect most erotic-romance readers—who are, let’s face it, largely straight women with a smattering of gay men—would rather read about the glories of hard dick than of “slippery folds†and oozing va-jay-jay. I know I would.
Ok, maybe I need to revise my opinion of the level of ickiness some people associate with vaginas relative to male genitalia. So are there lots of straight female readers of erotic romance who avoid m/f because of the presence of descriptions of ““slippery folds†and oozing va-jay-jay” and therefore almost exclusively read m/m?
[and the security word is now ball52. I’m more convinced than ever that the the security system has a preference for m/m orgies.]
I hate to ruin anyone’s squeaky-clean buttsecks fantasy by reminding them just what can and does occasionally get all over the place when those who indulge in the practice do not undergo a preparatory enema? Although I grant you that, like hemmorhoids and anal fissures, it probably doesn’t find it’s way into too many erotic romance novels.
Not that I have anything against the buttsecks, in fantasy or IRL—just trying to be clear about potential squick-worthy elements…
I’ve written all the letters of the alphabet: M/M, M/F, MMF, MFF, etc. The Dareville books I have with limited F/F scenes do well, and the M/M does very well. I don’t mind F/F erotica, and would be willing to write it, but as others here have testified, it doesn’t move as well.
Of course, maybe I worry that I wouldn’t be able to market it properly.
Re. the issue of “hang-ups”: Come on, let’s be honest, we all have hang-ups. So OWN THEM! (By the way, Oprah told me to tell you this.) Do you gag at the idea of eating roadkill out of a crockpot? I’ve known people who do. Are you grossed out by toe-sucking? I knew a man who got off on it, and there are probably many more like him.
Really, truly, deeply, I don’t give a rip if my preference for a pillar of purpling man-meat far outstrips my desire to see and/or play with and/or read about a clam in a fright wig. To hell with political correctness; I prefer the pillar. So say it loud: I’m gay/straight/bi and I’m proud!
In terms of f-f being available? Hell, yeah, it should be! My libertarian conscience says, To each his/her own, as long as it isn’t hurting anybody. It’s all the PC pussy-footing (no pun intended) that offends me more than anything.
OMG@ the “Bosom Buddies” thing. Anne of Green Gables and her Diana are FOREVER changed in my eyes! Oh the warping!
I agree, it should all be available, and I’m not ragging on anyone who would rather read m/m than m/f or f/f. I just think it’s weird to find female gentalia gross, when you consider the comparative squickiness of the “slot b” featured in most m/m sex scenes.
I’m with SonomaLass. I don’t think Zane is saying that people who aren’t interested in reading lesbian erotica have hang ups. My impression is that she’s pissed, and rightly so, at the hypocrisy of these people saying her books are too racy and hence cannot be signed in public, included in a bookclub, or must be apologized for when her personal history shows this has never been a problem before. And whether or not people are interested in f/f in general, the fact that she states her sales rates aren’t that different with “Purple Panties†from her previous books, gives me the impression that a good amount of people are interested in *this* f/f. The only reason for *this* book being shunned seems to be the f/f element, and that bites.
Not at my Borders. When I’m looking for GLBT fiction, I’m always relegated to the other end of the store to the Social Sciences section. A few shelves of Women’s Studies, a shelf of gay/lesbian studies, and then two shelves of GLBT literature, erotica, and romance all crammed together. The first time I tried to find a GLBT title there, a bookstore employee had to trek all over the store with me to hunt it down, since the computer listed it as being in “Gay/Lesbian Literature†when in fact there was no such section in the store. {Sigh.}
As for the squick factor, every once in a while I read on one loop or another that an m/m author got into it because the words used to describe female body parts are gross. Now, writing an m/m because it’s who you are? Great. Writing an m/m because it turns you on? Also great. Writing one because your own body parts wig you out? That’s a problem.
{snerk}
security word: behind89
{also snerk}
🙂
Obviously not, Laura! I think women (most women) don’t mind reading about their “stuff” when their stuff is reacting to or working in conjunction with a man’s stuff. Know what I mean? I suspect problems arise when straight women have to imagine going down on other women or using strap-ons, because men aren’t part of the picture. Those images, I suspect, just push the envelope too far.
(Oh, yiy, why don’t I just sit on my damned fingers?)
There’s a big difference between not liking a type of story and objecting to it. Not liking something is perfectly valid. This is something else.
Maybe snarkhunter was thinking of the origins of the word vajayjay, which might even have been discussed on this site, can’t remember. Quoting: “[The] producer of the show [Grey’s Anatomy] explained that even though they use the word ‘penis’ on the show in several episodes, without any problems from the broadcasting standards board, ‘vagina’ got the board too riled up and the writers needed to look for an alternative. An intern suggested ‘vajayjay’.”
Interesting.
Quote from here:
http://www.dollymix.tv/2007/10/women_and_words_vajayjay_the_l.html
This story also can be found in a NY Times article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/fashion/28vajayjay.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1194192194-s1ezQqM/nDtsVytqXJBs5Q
Wow, that kind of blanket statement is interesting to me. I’m most definitely a straight woman but I like to read f/f. Of course, it’s not as much a turn on as m/f, but I like it none-the-less. And I don’t feel a “squick” factor at all. But I know that I’m in the minority.
I don’t associate it with the male porn POV either. The f/f I read in erotic books is completely different.
I’ll pretty much read anything if there is an emotional connection between the characters. I don’t care who’s doing what to whom as long as it’s a good love story.
What I don’t get is the discrimination against f/f. That’s what I find interesting. So it’s not popular. Just because it’s not a turn on for many doesn’t mean it should be across the board dismissed.
Urp, sorry for the long web addresses! I hope they didn’t screw anything up.
This is a reallygood point, Kirsten, and one that started dogging me as soon as I began writing m-m sex scenes.
The only answer is, I guess, that “clean sex” becomes part of the reader’s suspension-of-disbelief process. Getting into the enema thing would definitely ruin the moment. Just like douching would. Or dealing with one’s period. Or swabbing smegma from beneath foreskin. Or all kinds of icky stuff.
Writers must conveniently overlook bunches of biological realities to keep readers “in the moment”. And I don’t think readers mind. I even blogged about a book I love to pieces because one of the partners in a sex scene had long, pointed teeth. It tripped me up a bit . . . but didn’t keep me from getting lost in the well-told story.
Guess it’s all about what we’re looking for in fiction, sex or no sex.
As a straight woman who is writing a m/f/f story with her partner (a guy) really because I joked it was the only menage HE would write, who has BFF lesbian friends, (so much so that when we were first hanging around together my mom said “Is there something you like to tell me?” (me laughing, no mom, I drive stick shift.)… I have to say that I have heard that about f/f too. I’ve also heard that it’s done respectable numbers at a few places too.
I think the female form is beautiful. So is the male form. I would have no problem reading, or writing, f/f fiction, but I also understand that I may not be the “norm.” I will also add that Pink Petal Books, my company, would definately be open to f/f fiction (as well as all LGBT) fiction as well as M/F. After all love is a beautiful thing, no matter the gender of the individuals involved. Or at least that’s my personal opinion.
ones23- yes, it is ones personal decision.
I, too, have heard that f/f doesn’t sell well. Not that I was going to write it, this was from a friend who is an Ellora’s Cave author who was forced to remove a m/f/m/f scene on the basis that the women touched each other.
As a reader, I don’t like f/f, but that’s just because I’m as straight as a line between points A and B. Women interest me sexually about -10%, so a scene with two women is not going to turn my crank, and that’s pretty much what erotica is there for. I love m/m, but that’s because I think men are hot. Two men doing it? Even hotter.
However, I could never see being so outraged and offended by someone else choosing to write or buy f/f erotica that I would need a bookstore to apologize to me for selling it. I mean, I don’t read Christian Inspirationals, either, but I’m not going to demand Barnes and Noble stop selling them.
Which reminds me . . . how many romance sex scenes contain the all-too-common queef? “Her pussy suddenly made a sound worthy of a fat man’s arse, and the accompanying explosion of air nearly replaced my Adam’s apple with at least one of my balls.”
Bet you don’t read that too often!
I write it all and read it all! Great characters and great sex is hot stuff!! Love f/f.
In fact the first book of mine to get ‘Recommended Read’ from any reviewer was my f/f Sorority Girl Pledge Time. I think because it was unique, very hot, and genuine. I had the idea and I couldn’t get it out of my head…big selling genre or not. The best books are ones where the writer isn’t trying to be trendy but channels that great muse to write the book they’re meant to.
Loose Id has been great!! I have another book coming from them in July. The main relationship is m/f but there are f/f and f/f/m scenes so I think there are options out there for the f/f writer.
And Sorority Girl Pledge Time go a really hot cover! I have to share that..
http://www.loose-id.com/detail.aspx?ID=615
With EC, no the f/f stuff is out. I do get away with a f/f/m scene in one Exotika (Black on Blonde) but it’s not a romance story and it’s got a lot of magical elements with the sex.
Just my thoughts as an erotic romance writer who goes from m/m to f/f and enjoys it all:)
Cheryl Dragon
Maybe we’re talking about a different kind of fandom here, but most slash fen I know like both m/m and f/f (just, they like m/m more). I also know a surprising number of them are lesbian or bisexual. I found that the overwhelming consensus that slash fen thought f/f was icky a little startling.
They come from anime or game fandoms, mostly. Is this why?
See, now this just annoys me on so many levels. Being “forced” to remove something, for one. And because the women touched each other? That just makes me think about that part in Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, where Kumar’s into a three-way, but Harold isn’t because, “No way, man, I don’t want our dicks touching!”
I mean, if I’m going to read a scene with more than two people in it, I’d rather they all get down with each other: m/mf/f/f/m/m/f/m/f/f/m/m/m/f. Or whatever.
I’m at least as concerned about reviewers as stores and customers. I think people need to ask themselves if you’d give an otherwise good book a negative review because it contained one or two sex scenes that a large percentage of the population wouldn’t find objectionable but pushed a personal button for you. If the answer is yes, maybe you shouldn’t be reviewing romance, erotica or erotic romance. Or, at the very least, you should leave the review of that book to someone else.
All right, I’m glad my mouth wasn’t full when I read THAT!
Roughly 95% of what I’ve read in the last year or so has been slash, with the occasional m/m/f thrown in. I rarely read het anymore, and lez not at all *urps*
I’m the unabashedly bisexual daughter of two very happily married lesbians, and love women almost as much as I like men. Two hot guys going at it gets my motors running big time. Reading about two women smexing squicks me in ways I just can’t explain. Seriously, even the thought of reading lez makes me nauseous. It’s absolutely inexplicable to me, but that’s how I feel. I’m not worried that reading a f/f book will pull me over to the dark side, cuz I’m already there.
F/F doesn’t sell because the majority of the romance market is women, and they tend to have the same reaction I do to the books, for whatever reason.
So that’s where that stupid term comes from!
I don’t watch the show, so I’ve never heard it there. I just noticed that it suddenly started cropping up all over the place.
You and me both Gail. The Switch was great, and although Joey Hill’s Mistress of Redemption was an awesome book, I’m not that much into BDSM. But my publishers tell me Fem Dom will be a hard sell – yet I know plenty of women who would be into reading a story where the woman is the top, especially without the heavy BDSM aspect.
F/F doesn’t float my boat so much for my own reading, but I’m all for it being published. A girlfriend of mine needles me once and a while about when I’m writing a m/f/f, as she’s one who’d much rather get it on with another girl than with another guy and her man. Different strokes for different folks really even though were both pretty much as straight as a road in Florida 🙂
I think the difference in acceptance of m/m to f/f comes down to the fact f/f has been in long standing the domain of male fantasy – and one thing we all know is that (in the majority) men are so not about the romance, so I wonder if that is where some of the ‘ick’ factor some people experience comes from? The ‘dirty over sexed man’ quotent?
I made this comment on the Dear Author post on the state of GLBT publishing, it might apply well here too:
Level of acceptance meaning that the majority of women don’t find it as intriguing as the m/m alternative.
I’m in this generation, and I think part of it is we (general we) are learning to see sexuality as more fluid, and that when you find someone attractive, they’re attractive, and it’s not always in line with your genetalia preference. Also, I think Kinsey may finally be hitting it big (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Scale). 🙂
I do agree with above comments that part of it we are taught to see our bodies as “nasty”, part of it is homophobia, part of it is some people just don’t want to read it, and part of it is publishers think no one wants to read it . There’s probably a lot more factors at play, but those seem to be the main four.
The thing is, we aren’t really taught to love our sexuality, to play with it, to experiment with it. When Kismet wrote “I’m not sure we should be handing girls vibrators at 12”, my attitude was why not? Masturbation is natural for both sexes, so maybe not go so far as to hand out vibrators, but let females know it’s ok to be curious, it’s good to check it out yourself. You don’t have to be with someone (male or female) to learn about sexual pleasure. We teach/allow/are ok with boys playing with themselves, why not girls? I’m in college, and one night I was having a discussion with about ten/twelve female housemates. Two of us have touched ourselves, and the rest had a mix of reactions going from interested “hmmm, maybe I should try” to horrified “you do what? and then you kill puppies, right?”
That said, Zane’s post annoys me for two reasons, and both are just personal this-shit-annoys-me things. 1. All the name throwing; if I wanted her backlist I would have looked it up and 2. The “honary lesbian” line. Writing f/f scenes and not getting your book out is way different then the daily struggle lesbians have to go through.
But anyways, I’m personally not a fan of m/m/f (f/f/m was a little better but not much), but I’ve enjoyed m/m and I’m willing to try f/f. Actually, Cheryl, yours will probably be the one I tried. When I was looking for my first e-book, I came across yours and was like, hmmm, that sounds interesting. But I am having a lack of money at the moment, having bought almost all of JL Langley’s backlist (damn her).
I’m curious for those who said they don’t like f/f (which is perfectly valid, we all have preferences), but how many have tried it? Not saying you have to, to have that opinion (h/h rape is a big fact NO from me, and I didn’t have to try it to realize), but just curious how many gave it a shot first?
Cora: It’s been around before the show, it just became more popular since then.
rather36: rathe rhave a good book then anything else