A friendly person from an online book group emailed me with some ire, though not directed at us (always nice!). Seems she’s teed off because earlier last week, the fourteenth installment of the Stephanie Plum series, which hits stores 17 June, had a three-star ranking on BN.com, with a large portion of the 29 individuals who read an advance copy discussing how disappointed they are in the latest Plum installment.
But as of Friday, there are 11 ratings, all of them four to five stars, with more than a few from people who slapped that puppy with a fiver merely to indicate how excited they are that the book is coming out, omg, wow!!!11! According to the person who contacted me, there were 30 reviews up on Tuesday 20 May. Wednesday 21 May there were 9. 2 more glowing reviews have been added since. 1 negative review was posted on Thursday 22 May and removed on Friday 23 May. Scroll through the reviews posted and look at the dates. They’re a jumbled mess, in no order whatsoever. Never seen that before.
BN.com is one of the few places where you can review a book online prior to its release date. Amazon.com’s listing for the book indicates a five-star rating as well, but there are no reviews of the book listed on the book’s page on Amazon. (Where are those stars coming from anyway?)
However, there is a customer discussion that is less than impressed with the book, which echoes discussions on Shelfari and on Powell’s.
Can I just say I am so absurdly amused by the “How can you hate this book you are a moronnnnnn!” shreiking that comes along like a sidecar of idiocy in threads like those? It’s like the creature opposite of the squeeing fangirl: the shrieking fangirl. How dare you dislike her favorite author! Fangirl powers, activate – form SHREIKING HARPY BANSHEE!
Which is why my eyebrow is raised at the email from the bookclub miss. On Monday, there were 29 comments. Today: only 11, all of them five stars, or four.
Google Cache powers, activate!
If I Google “Fearless fourteen boring” there are several results, including one that quotes Evanovich’s “Meet the Author” page, and one that references the following phrase: “Like many fans, I was willing to overlook that boring, poorly written book…”
Take a look. (note: popup window! Oh noes!)
If I Google that specific phrase, which appears to be a review quote for Fearless Fourteen, an identical excerpt shows up in the Google info but is nowhere to be found on the BN.com page.
Additional Google-fu provided by Jane revealed a negative review from “Tired” in the Google cache, but the active link for that page does not show the review.
There are several review texts that appear in the cache but not in the current BN page.
The hardcover isn’t the only page with disappearing reviews, either. The CD version also has a then/now version discrepancy revealed courtesy of The Cache of Google. Here’s the cache version showing 12 reviews, and here’s the current version of the page , which shows 11. Note the top review on the cached page – it’s no longer on the site, though I don’t see any options to remove your own reviews once they’ve been posted.
Obviously, it’s in BN’s best interest to have higher ranking books for sales purposes, but who gets to say which books have the negative and low-starred reviews removed prior to a book’s release? Who has that kind of power? The publisher? The author? BN.com? Based on what criteria are bad reviews removed from people who appear to have actually read the book, while reviews from people who are merely slapping the fiver out of anticipation are left active? And why is it some authors have negatives removed while other authors with not quite the same sales powers have to fight and beg to have spoiler reviews removed? What, in short, is up with that?
I am so sick and tired of jacka*ses who mess with reviews. Why? What the hell do these little minions get out of it? More butt-licking from the author?
OK- we don’t know who had these reviews deleted but these people need to get a life. I’m so disappointed that I can’t trust customer reviews on amazon and now, bn. It’s a disgrace.
I trust SBTB and Dear Author at the moment.
Who else is worth reading for trustworthy and honest reviews?
I get both good and bad reviews, although don’t have the sort of fanbase that regularly writes reviews on sites like Amazon and B&N;. Maybe I’d feel differently if I did, but I’m afraid writers and readers need thicker skins when it comes to discussing the books they love (and the books they love to hate). NO book is going to appeal to everyone, no AUTHOR is going to appeal to everyone. That’s the way of the world (thank goodness), so suck it up and deal with it.
Like I said, I might think otherwise if people dissed my novels on a regular basis, but I really hope I wouldn’t. And yes, I realize that by saying all this, I’m inviting snark reviews as well as fangirl/boy ones. Maybe I ought to go grow that tougher skin…:)
Sounds to me like those nasty “gremlins” that were messing with Amazon, have now moved on to B&N;. What happened? Did they run out of bad reviews to eat?
*snerk*
This has been going on a long, long time. The last review I posted on Amazon was for Metro Girl 4 years ago. Gave it a 3 and kinda suggested that a number 1 bestselling (OMIGOD) NYT author could have written a better book.
Within 5 mins, kid you not, the rabid fans had been alerted and 17 glowing, oh you gotta love NASCAR and wrestling if you’re a fan of JE had been posted.
Needless to say, haven’t posted a review to Ammie since. And now am boycotting them for the Reba deal.
But I suspect that BN and Amazon go along with the crapola to sell more books.
Wow. Not that I trust other people’s opinions of books, anyway, but that’s just slimy. Why don’t they remove some of the bad reviews from my books?
Why even bother having reviews any more? I would rather not have them, if it’s coming to this…manipulated reviews. There’s no point to it. They tell you nothing. They are useless to the consumer, and eventually (as we are seeing in these comments) only creating disgusted and annoyed readers. I am sure neither BN or Amazon want to annoy customers. Do they?
Netflix has a great review system. It’s so accurate, I’m often disturbed by how closely my own reaction matches the overall reaction of the Netflix audience. The other great thing about Netflix is that they will show you other movie viewers who have rated movies similar to your own ratings…and I can really rely on what these people think of a film before I rent it since we have similar tastes.
I wish Amazon would let you do that….a true ratings system that would HELP. It wouldn’t have to be a written review, just stars. And you couldn’t remove anyone’s opinion in the star system. That would be so darn helpful!
Maybe leave the written reviews section for actual book reviewers of some kind…Romantic Times reviews, for example. Or other trusted sources for decent reviews.
Personally, I wouldn’t believe high ratings and reviews for a book that hasn’t even been released. It would be obvious these are friends or rabid fans just making crap up. Which, in the long run, doesn’t help sales, I don’t think.
What’s shitty is that it’s clear favoritism. Why not just say “OK we’ll take away ALL bad reviews before release dates” or “We won’t remove ANY suck it up mofo!”
What bothers me is these are reviews BEFORE the book is released. Unless they are professional reviewers or people who specifically get an ARC for the purpose of reviewing… then shut up! Don’t give away the damn book for the rest of us and let us make up our own minds.
It’s not like JE is supposed to be deep prose. She’s lovely fluffy pool side reading material. That’s it.
This is really depressing. I depend a great deal on amazon reviews in deciding what books to buy. But if I can’t trust those reviews, what use are they? It sounds like someone needs to set up an independent site for user reviews of books. One that’s not also involved in selling books and thus motivated to make the books sound better than they really are.
It’s not in Amazon or BN’s best interest to have low reviews. As a subscription service, Netflix makes their money whether you watch a particular movie or not. Amazon and BN only make money if you buy a book. In the case of Jane Q. Author, not that many people know of her, so a bad review won’t discourage that many sales. But for a big author, lots of people go looking and many more people are likely to be discouraged from buying the book. They could lose a lot of sales. So they torpedo those reviews.
They either need to block all pre-release reviews or find a way to limit reviews to those who’ve read an ARC. Maybe a code on the inside cover of the ARC that has to be given before the review can be posted?
I’m guessing (just a guess) that the publisher complained about the negative reviews; B&N;doesn’t remove reviews based solely on negativity (you should see some of the whining they get about that), but if it’s a big book and the pub date hasn’t hit yet, I can see them bowing to publisher pressure to remove the negative reviews.
The reason, by the way, that they don’t generally remove reviews (past pub-date) based solely on negativity is that they feel it gives more credibility to the customer reviews in general (same reason negative reviews from PW, Library Journal, and Kirkus stay on the pages).
Since this was mentioned above…if you’re an author and find a review that gives away spoilers for your book, or that you feel attacks you personally, contact your publisher and have them submit the request to have the review removed. (It’s difficult to verify someone’s identity over the internet—and yes, there have been cases of people writing to B&N;impersonating authors—so B&N;prefers to receive communication from publishers, whom they know, rather than authors, whom they don’t know.)
(I’m not hiding behind the word “they”, incidentally; I don’t deal with customer reviews at B&N;. But I used to, some years back, so I’m familiar with their general policies.)
Becky, then why have reviews at all? Why is Amazon subjecting itself to the ratings system, if their plan is to torpedo any and all reviews that are considered ‘poor’ or ‘bad’? I would think they’d have better things to do with their time. Plus, they sell SO many books, would they really want to be that deceiving to their buying public with any and all ‘big’ authors with bad reviews?
As for my Netflix comparison, I understand that it is a flawed…I guess what I wanted to say is that I’d rather have a system like theirs which would truly be helpful to the consumer. No, Netflix doesn’t have as much of a vested interest in how often a movie is rented…however, they do sell used DVDs, and lower rated ones probably do not sell as well…right? So there is an interest there. Maybe not as great, but there is one.
There is no way in hell all readers of a book will be 100% happy or give 4’s and 5’s. And consumers are not stupid. These sorts of manipulated reviews are not helping the author. It makes me very suspicious when I don’t see at least one or two negative reviews of a book…I won’t trust that a book is good when it has all high reviews. Because that is just not realistic.
I wish there was a way to fix this, because honest reviews and a variety of them are so helpful.
B&N;, Amazon, etc. are under pressure from big publishers.
On the one hand, Amazon is promoting the customer reviews as an information source for buyers, to provide various reader’s angles on the reading experience.
Yet Amazon’s goal is to sell books (how they make a profit), so they share the same interest as publisher/author.
What do you do when a top branded author (such as Evanovich) jumps the shark, and the editors and publisher missed on it, and now they’ve printed a gazillion copies for sale?
The publisher has spent a good deal of time and money pre-marketing the book (and the Evanovich brand). Now the brand is at risk, due to disappointing pre-market feedback (from those who have read the ARC) on her latest book.
They know how quickly a cherished brand can turn to toast (Cassie Edwards, for example) in the internet age. Word spreads at the speed of light.
The publishing industry, like the music industry, is in the midst of paradigm-shift change. Amazon is part of that change, but until they vertically integrate to take over upstream publishing (as they are starting to do by acquiring Booksurge) they have to dance to the old guard publisher’s tune.
My guess is that Amazon doesn’t like having to do this . . . it will come back to bite them.
I just finished reading through the reviews at Powell’s, and I’m getting a seriously creepy feeling.
Did Evanovich (the real Evanovich) write this book? Or was it a ghost written book with the publisher using the Evanovich brand to sell it?
I’m asking this because a number of reviewers mention that it isn’t Janet’s “voice”, and that many parts are simply recycled from her earlier works.
Very odd indeed.
I was thinking that they were taken off because they actually reviewed the book while the others were (sigh) just excitement, but since BN.com allows that then I just don’t see why. I know publisher’s pay to have books placed upfront at Barnes & Noble, I wonder if they could also pay them to delete bad early reviews? They may have assumed people just wouldn’t notice. No matter what, deleting reviews for any other purpose then them being spam/inappropriate is pretty fuc- messed up. They can do whatever they want with their business, but if it gets out that they removed less than stellar reviews, trust in the company will only drop and hurt them. Not the smartest move in the current economy…
I leaning toward that the last two books have been written by a ghostwriter. If the “real” Evanovich wrote the last two books, then her muse has up and quit because that muse no longer has the love for the characters that was so obvious in the earlier books.
When reading a very favorite author’s newest book and you find yourself constantly saying, “What the????” as you read, something is wrong.
Very, very, wrong.
No, they do not. Publishers make requests, which B&N;might or might not agree to. This time, it appears they agreed to comply with the request.
I hate to say this but it is not just Amazon and BN.com.
I recently reviewed a book for Romantic Times Mag and gave the book three stars when I sent my review to the editor. When I read the printed review in the magazine somehow it was given 4. Now I’m jaded and take everything with a grain of salt
Actually, there are reviews on Amazon, and one person who posted something negative got *pounced*
and geez:
Yeah, who cares if JE is lifting whole scenes from previous books and adding them to the current one? She’s done it before, so neener neener *rolls eyes*
This is why I don’t buy books unless they’ve been recommended by teh Bitches or teh Ja(y)nes.
I guess I don’t understand why amazon (or bn) has to cater to publishers by yanking undesirable reviews. What’s the publisher going to do: refuse to sell through them? Is there something else going on that I’m not aware of?
While I totally understand that amazon wants books to be reviewed positively, so more people buy them, I think if they take the long view, they’ll realize it’s more important to have customer trust than to gain a few short-term sales. A major reason I buy from amazon is that I go there to check out the reviews, and as long as I’m there, might as well buy the book from them. I even feel slightly indebted to them for providing the reviews—enough that I’d feel guilty if I checked out the reviews on amazon and then went somewhere else to buy the book.
If I decide their reviews can’t be trusted, then I’ll end up going somewhere else for reviews, and then there’s no reason for me to buy the book specifically from amazon.
Actually, I rarely care what anyone says about a book, if I like it I read it – the only thing that it might deter me from is paying $25 for the hardcover. I usually get my books used.
However, I do review books on Amazon and the History Book Club (I am an historian) and I see lots of negatives on both. What bothers me about the negatives is that so often the reviewers admit that they haven’t read the book.
I’ve seen negatives on DVD’s not because someone has watched it but because it wasn’t closed captioned and the person didn’t want to buy it without, so they gave it a negative. I would like to see the negatives like that deleted – it is so unfair. However, a system that is just stars is useless, I want to know why a person liked or did not like something – but I do have a mind of my own and if I am interested I will read or watch it and make up my own mind.
I am a book reviewer. I receive ARCs from publishers, publicists and authors. No one has ever pressured me to write a ‘glowing’ review. I HAVE seen the reviews that were posted on Amazon (on my behalf) rated ‘not helpful’ if I disagreed with the fan girls.
Part of me understands. *I* am fan girl squirrely over certain authors. Will I give them a glowing review if they write a stink bomb? No. But I can understand fan girl hysteria.
(I went mute went I got Nora Roberts to autograph a book for me at a book signing. Big eyed mute girl was in a daze for… well days.)
I think a savvy shopper can tell the bullshit reviews versus the honest reviews. Due to personal tastes, an honest review still might not match your take on a book. C’est la vie!
I do think BN should have left up those reviews. If they were written by advance readers, thats what they were supposed to do. Read it, review it, post the review.
Although I’m not into romance fiction, I’ve been following the controversy surrounding book reviews on Amazon ever since the Highland Press scandal became big news a few weeks ago. You may have seen my posts on the subject on Dear Author.
On the issue of reviews being posted before the official release date, I received a very revealing response from Amazon UK after I protested about one particular CD having 11 pre-release reviews. Here’s what I wrote
Amazon UK responded thus
Except for the third and fourth paragraphs, this is a standard canned response that Amazon could have sent to anybody with any complaint about reviews. But those two paragraphs show that they think it’s OK to review a CD based on seeing the same singer in concert. I assume they therefore think it’s OK to review a DVD based on seeing a movie on TV or in the cinema.
In my previous post, I cut off the part of the letter containing those bogus reviews. Here they are
I think those reviews prove that you can’t review a CD you’ve never heard, just based on a performance in concert.
I’d say I’m a fairly powerful author with a pretty powerful publisher. I don’t check out the reviews on Amazon (or B&N;) often, but did just now to see what was what re this topic.
I have several negative or luke-warm reviews mixed with 4 and 5 star ones on my latest book. I’m reasonably certain I could take a quick look at any number of my books on these sites and find the same.
So, it seems to me, if removing negatives was publisher-driven, I wouldn’t have those 2 and 3 star reviews. If it was site-driven (want to sell those best-sellers) I wouldn’t have them. They’d all go bye-bye.
As to how I deal with negative reviews, I keep my big-girl panties on. And mostly, I don’t go cruising over to Amazon or B&N;to read reviews anyhow.
So many people, so few pair of Big Girl Panties. The world would be a better place if we all had a pair.
When I look at reviews online, it’s usually pretty clear when fangirls are swarming, and it’s normally a turn-off for me. I am inclined to move on to another author.
In other news: I wish Nora Roberts would do something crass and/or despicable, so I wouldn’t feel so guilty about not reading romance novels.
Dang her. Dang her to heck for being such a class act, big-girl panties and all.
When I do look at reviews, it’s rarely before I buy the book – but it’s after I’ve read it to see if other people got out of the book the same thing I did. When I write a review, it is never really critical because fiction is so highly subjective. However, I am critical when I review non-fiction.
And Nora, I prostrate myself at your feet, you are the Queen of Romantic Suspense. I wouldn’t want you to think I was prostrating myself to see if your big-girl panties were on. If any author took these reviews seriously, they would never be able to write. Repeat book sales are the best yardstick. Hail to the Queen!
*gets on soapbox*
Noes, Virginia! What has the author done to you that you’re depriving her of income? Authors get nothing—zip, zilch, nada—for used books, and since most authors barely make enough to live on (I barely make enough for my cat to live on), every second hand book sold is taking away living income. If you really don’t like paying full price, wait for the paperback or get a library book—libraries pay a small sum to the author on books borrowed (at least they do in the UK; I assume other countries have similar arrangements).
*gets off soapbox*
I’ve personally thought the Plum books have been running out of steam a little lately, but not badly enough that I won’t be buying book fourteen.
Futzing with the reviews is a no-no in my book. Unless the reviewer suggests you have an inordinate interest in some perverted activity involving underage chipmunks, the review should stay on the page. The readers are a savvy lot. They’ll weed through what is valuable and what’s pure b.s. Amazon and B&N;should trust their customers more than they do.
Cat Marsters, is that a real soapbox? Because first-sale doctrine is well established in American copyright law and culture, and if you think it’s wrong, tough shit and get into another game. Or go tilt at the windmill of copyright. Garth Brooks will loan you a horse.
And FYI—public libraries in the US don’t pay royalties on circulation. We buy the book or lease it, and that’s the last time the publisher collects money from it. In return, we don’t have a guarantee that the books will circulate or be any good. We fulfill the role of a repository for knowledge and ideas. Libraries are highly local and decentralized, and if we had to keep records on circulation and remit payments, we’d collapse.
Actually, so sorry anyone has problems with people buying used books.That is very short-sighted. Buying a used book may not bring in money to the author immediately, but when a reader finds an author they like they don’t wait around til they find it at a
used bookstore or online (newly released titles online often cost as much when you add in shipping so I order a bundle on Amazon and save the shipping cost). You should be considering a used book of yours as free advertising.
In addition, I volunteer at a library, and there are no fees paid for circulating a book. Libraries face enough of a budget crunch,since they are not at the top of the list when town budgets are being discussed. I started up a used book store within the library and the funds raised- and they are significant – allow a great many services including author signings, children’s summer reading programs, books to the elderly, air conditioner units so that the library is usable in the summer, etc. Would you rather have your used book tossed ?In addition, if your book only comes out in paperback, it will not get into many libraries. Because of the Book Nook, it has exposed many people to authors they would never even heard of.
Yes, it is a real soapbox, and one shared by many, many authors of my acquaintance. Authors are like normal people: they don’t work for free. Publishers are not charities. The rash of lawsuits against file-sharing sites offering downloadable music for free, and the Hollywood writers strike over DVD royalties are both proof that it’s not just authors who feel this way.
Yes, it can be considered a great advertisement if someone buys your book cheaply; but I’m not convinced that a person who bought one book second hand will pay full price for the next. When ‘new and used’ books can be bought on Amazon within days of publication, it’s both easier and cheaper in many cases to continue buying that way.
I’m very sorry to hear that US libraries don’t have a Public Lending Right scheme. According to the PLR website, over forty countries worldwide recognise lending rights, including Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, and many European countries (where it is part of an EU directive on renumerative rights). In the UK, the payments are capped at a few thousand pounds so as not to bankrupt library authorities.
Quite frankly, we all have to make a living. Over the weekend I sold an older book of Nora Roberts (most of the books I sell are older or out-of-print). The young woman who bought it from me said she was just getting into reading romances and after reading one of Ms. Roberts books she bought used, she went out to a bookstore and bought her two most recent books. She hadn’t been able to find a copy of Three Fates at the store, liked my listing and my rating. I am quite certain, if this book had been available at the bookstore she would have bought it then and there. I probably made .30 after listing fees, final value fees and shipping. When books at the Book Nook sell, the library makes .50 or !.00. I’d say that was fairly inexpensive advertising for the author.
Cat, if you prefer, let me know what you’ve written and I’ll make sure it goes to the landfill where most used books end up.
There are numerous midlist authors who’d love to have an occasional nasty review removed and I have heard from several that it’s very difficult to accomplish this from the BN and Amazon review departments. I find it odd that BN chose to remove critical reviews but have in the past allowed early reviews for Evanovich’s other books. In looking at Ms. Evanovich’s upcoming tour schedule for Fearless Fourteen, I see four out of five stops are to be held at Barnes Noble book stores. Janet has debuted at the numero uno spot on the NYT for the last seven years and I’m sure she will land there again. I find this curious and curiouser.
Regarding used books: I buy a lot of books, most new and occasionally will buy used at a local usb. I once boycotted an author I once enjoyed for whining publicly about usbs and sharing books among friends.
Oh no, Virginia. I should hate to contribute to the destruction of the planet by filling up landfills. Paper can be recycled so effectively.
Cat, you’re getting paid on the first sale. But a book is a physical object, and after it’s out in the world, it is uncontrollable. It’s a container for expression and thoughts.
We’re not asking you to work for free. But if you have a problem with the longevity of your work in a print format, either stop writing or write only for a format with better controls, if it can ever be perfected. Or get better contracts.
By your logic, artists should get a royalty every time their art changes hands, and the builder who designed my house 95 years ago should be getting a cut of the sale.
The law is designed to encourage the exchange of ideas, innovation and the development of knowledge and the greater good. You make money off the first sale. After that, each container your story comes in has a life of its own.
Guess the same should be said for anything used that is up for sale on eBay…clothes, shoes, plates, furniture…the manufacturers should get a cut there as well. And what about the selling of paintings? The artist only makes money the first time it is sold…and then it get resold and resold and auctioned and the price goes up….poor starving artist.
Some people just don’t have the money to spend on reading books. So they use the library or paperbackswap or a used book store. And when they do get some extra cash and want to splurge, it will probably be on their favorite author’s newest book or one they discovered at the library or on paperbackswap.
I don’t see anything wrong, as long as money was made off of that first sale.
*Heaving a tired sigh*
No, I don’t own a used book store. I just want to find fantastic stories to feed my insatiable brain food habit. If the hunt takes me to the galaxy of X91PRTM’ Nucles Beta 5, that’s where I’ll go to get the book.
I’ll give a hurrah for used book stores. I am a reader. I read romance, science fiction, mystery, young adult, childrens books, horror, general fiction, and the occassional non-fiction when I can be bothered.
I frequent used book stores, thrift stores, yard sales, library sales, swap meets, and most other places many people would find used books for sale. I also frequent my local retail book stores such as B&N;and Borders, the supermarkets, Target, Costco, Walmart, online retailers, and other such shops to purchase new books.
Used book stores are not the enemy of authors. They can, in fact, be an author’s best friend. It’s all in how you look at any given situation.
Examples? Yes, I’ve got them.
I picked up two new-to-me authors in a used book store. Bless the authors’ hearts for having large backlists. Between the two authors, after having purchased one of each of their books at the used book store, I went out and bought seven of one authors’ books and ten of the others. In one day. New, from my local Borders. The authors were LKH and David Weber. It wasn’t the first time I’d done it, and it sure wouldn’t be the last.
(Ms. Roberts, I know you didn’t object but you’ve got the nice big backlist I need as a visual reference. Please forgive my presumption of using you as my example, true though the story is). A used book store was how I was introduced to the In Death series. I sure hope Ms. Roberts doesn’t mind I purchased Naked in Death used but have sinced purchased the remaining 27 books at full price within the first week of each of their release dates.
I’m am positive had I never set foot in that particular used book store I’d never have picked up the first two authors. Trust me on this. At that time in my reading span I was adamantly opposed to the genres both the first two authors wrote. I also would have never picked up J. D. Robb. As much as I adored the writing of NR in her romance genre, the thought of a futuristic police procedural at the time, *shudder*. I was a ROMANCE READER!
The clerk convinced me to read the authors. It’s that simple folks. Authors, you’re intitled to my contribution of cash on a sale purchased first time round. But don’t begrudge me if I find you by way of second hand shopping. I might never find you otherwise.