Dr. Sarah Frantz, Professor of Awesome, has forwarded me a very cool request: help her build her syllabus!
I will be teaching a course at NC State’s Continuing Eduction program called Encore! (exclamation point necessary, of course). I teach for six weeks for 1 1/2 hours a week. The students are mainly female, all at least over 50 years old, probably up to about 85. Last year I taught Austen and was apparently a huge hit. They’re begging me to teach again this year and I said I’d do it if I could do romance novels and they said, ‘Fine, please, anything,” so that didn’t work as a way out.
So, I need four or five romance novels that I can teach to older Southern women of a certain age. [SB Sarah says, “That would be: not really our age.”] I figure a Georgette Heyer, if I can find one in print that I like, and an SEP, probably It Had to Be You, as it’s my personal favorite. I’ll probably have a week with some RWA-NC members coming to visit (hopefully), including Virginia Kantra. Then what? I’ve got an older historical (Heyer) and a contemporary romantic comedy (SEP). Maybe a suspense (Kantra?)? An erotica (bwahahahahaha—yeah, I don’t think so)? An asshole hero? An inspirational? Any suggestions?
Just thought the bitchery might be able to help me with my syllabus.
So! We need romance recommendations for a continuing education syllabus geared for women of a certain age. Bring it!
If you decide not to do a Heyer perhaps you could use Jo Goodman’s If His Kiss is Wicked. I loved the way the main characters seduced each other with words.
A bow in JaniceG’s direction, way down in the land of Oz. She did indeed insist I read Jane Austen in Boca, and I was darn glad of it.
If I could put a vote in for a different set of Georgette Heyers: it has to be a Regency (even though Masqueraders is my personal favourite, it has a Georgian setting) and I think Lady of Quality, which again has an older heroine, or Frederica, which is a hoot, or The Foundling are great introductions to her work.
Nora Roberts, how about Montana Sky, which also has Cowboys, a massive subgenre which nobody seems to have mentioned so far, or any of the early MacGregor books, which were so groundbreaking when they came out on Silhouette way back when.
Elizabeth Lowell’s Diamond Tiger is a good suspenseful contemporary, or Linda Howard’s Dream Man has a paranormal side to it.
I also think that ladies in the South may not particularly want to read stuff set in the South – they’re very likely to spot anything remotely off in the details and be annoyed.
My spaminator clearly94 (clearly slightly above the target age of this course)
Teachery opinion, here:
I love the rec of Cruisie—I’d go for “Fast Women,” “Crazy For You” or “Bet Me.” You can discuss the perception of what is a romance heroine and/or appropriate material for a romance novel with the changing of cultural perceptions of women as a gender. Plus, good characterization of main characters, interesting secondary characters, and all that other writery stuff like plot building, setting, blah blah Englishteachercakes.
“Outlander,” which I love, is too long for a six week multiple book con-ed class.
“Sunshine” is not a good exemplar of the romance genre. It’s a freakin’ awesome books, but I think it’s wrong for the audience. Robin McKinley’s webpage has one of the funniest grumpy writer FAQ’s I have ever read, though, IMHO.
Roberts, yes. My personal teaching and student preference would be to do a stand-alone, though.
There are so many great authors and so many subgenres that I don’t envy you. (Well, yeah, I kinda do, but high school English class subject choice is a leetle easier). What about doing a bibliography according to subgenre? That way you could include all the great suggestions you don’t choose, and help students pick things to read in the future according to preferences.
I, being evil, would also schedule a class for individual books: I’d do something like ask students to choose a book from the biblio in an area they think they would NOT think would be to their taste, and give a mini-overview on what surprised them, in a pro-con way, and then have a roundtable discussion based on the overviews.
I think it sounds like a lot of fun!
(My personal stand alone pick for the Roberts would be “Midnight Bayou.” I like the main characters a lot, you have a Southern semi-Gothic setting, paranormal plot twist, reincarnation, and a virile man who is, for all intents and purposes, kinda…pregnant. So much to discuss!)
*I usually lurk, but I cannot resist a romance convo with a pedagogical twist*
Oh, oh, what about The Princess Bride?
And pick a pirate story—sexy swashbucklers and high seas adventure—what could be better??
spamword: finally81. I’m not but how appropriate . . .
I second whoever said PC Cast – Goddess of Spring is so beautiful – with a slightly older heroine and Hades for a hero, what’s not to love?
My mum’s 75, and she doesn’t like to read too many explicit sex scenes. (I’m 45, and neither do I. Bores me silly.) However, that said, she’s a grown woman who’s read D.H.Lawrence et al – she wouldn’t fall apart at the sight of a fictional prick.
As for recommendations, my favourite book of the moment is The Charioteeer by Mary Renault. It was written in the 50s, so nothing really explicit in the text, and while it’s not strictly speaking genre romance, it is a love story with a HEA. It’s m/m – which might broaden the scope of the course.
I’d suggest Venetia for the Heyer, because it’s the classic Regency – rakish hero, beautiful heroine – and Madam, Will You Talk? by Stewart, because I love it the best.
I’ve just finished reading Flowers from the Storm by Kinsale, and loved it, so I’ll add that – and it might be nice to include a category as well, just to show the range there is in romance. You could always use Roberts or Crusie there – show how good series books can be.
Be nice to make up a further reading list, because there are some great suggestions.
And after all these suggestions, I would really like to know what you picked in the end. – Just because
Spam word:call49 – not yet but now in the right decade
Sorry for the multiple posts but I just thought of another one that might be very good for this audience: THE SHELL SEEKERS by Rosamunde Pilcher (SEPTEMBER by the same author would be good too). Not classic romances, I know, but the romantic element is there.
Renault’s The Charioteer is a wonderful novel, and has been a favourite of mine for about 40 years, but I just don’t see it fitting into a course like this. Not because of the fact that the lovers are men, but because there is just so much social and cultural background that needs to be understood to appreciate it fully. It would be too easy to get bogged down in trying to explain the culture of wartime England, particularly the class issues, which are crucial to the story.
If one wanted to include a classic gay romance, I think that the students in this case might be able to relate better to Jane Rule’s seminal Lesbian romance, Desert of the Heart, which is also a very fine novel.
What’s a “certain age”?? That’s really bothering me. I’m 54, I’ve been reading romance for 40 years, am I a “certain age”????
verification “minutes55” – no about 7 months to 55, but close.
What about a Mary Stewart? They are all back in print. I recommend THIS ROUGH MAGIC.
For a futuristic, a JAK/Jayne Castle: SHIELD’S LADY or AMARYLLIS.
My favorite Carla Kelly is MISS MILTON SPEAKS HER MIND.
Nora’s THE VILLA and the In the Garden trilogy both feature three generations of heroines, all of whom find love. And her magnolia-drenched CARNAL INNOCENCE is one of my all-time favorites.
For Crusie, I prefer BET ME. And the Crusie-Mayer collaboration AGNES AND THE HITMAN.
And Susan Elizabeth Phillips’s AIN’T SHE SWEET? for a twist—the heroine is the (somewhat reformed) Evil Bitch.
Sarah, Sharon Shinn’s JENNA STARBORN is “JANE EYRE in outer space”; however, from what I’ve heard, it’s not all that good.
Colleen, our professional archaeologist the Silver Tigress is very thumbs-down on BIRTHRIGHT as being poorly researched. And I agree about CROCODILE ON THE SANDBANK—I adore it.
I’d also recommend GAMES OF COMMAND, FINDERS KEEPERS, and THE ACCIDENTAL GODDESS by Linnea Sinclair. Awesome sentient felines in the first one. They are published as Bantam Spectra SF, but plenty of hot romance. My favorite SF romance blend is Lee and Miller’s Liaden Universe series; but to get the full rounded storyline you’d have to read five books. Not that that would be a hardship, but I doubt that “rusty ladies” would be into space opera.
Snarkhunter, can you really include GAUDY NIGHT without including BUSMAN’S HONEYMOON?
I don’t rate THE MASQUERADERS that highly; besides, it’s 18th century rather than Regency. I’d suggest ARABELLA (the first one I ever read) or THE GRAND SOPHY for the Heyer.
I very much resent the Tigress for saying she is in her late 60s, since we are the same age at the moment. That’s MID 60s, you mangy feline! Just because we are recommending the same books doesn’t mean I’m going to channel EVERYTHING you say!
I understand that there is a very successful writer of historical romances called Cassie Edwards. Why is no one recommending her?
miss48—Yes, I do, especially now that I’m 66.
I would suggest Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier. One of the classics of gothic romance and several of plot devices from of it have become iconic in the romance genre including the plain jane heroine, the dashing, sophisticated hero who sweeps her off her feet. The theme of jealosy, revenge and redemption.
I also love Julia Quinn and think that a lot of older ladies would identify with the big Bridgerton family and the warmth of the family.
Knight in Shinning Armor by Jude Deveraux would also on my list.
I also think that you would have to include Nora Roberts because she has written so much in so many different sub-genres.
My vote is for Morning Glory by LaVyrle Spencer (third recommendation!)
It’s perfect for older, southern women. It’s set in the time right before WWII (and during it) and it’s in set in Georgia. AND IT’S A GREAT FREAKIN’ BOOK!
Holy moly! My word is south25. How appropriate.
Just have to delurk to suggest No Humans Involved from Kelly Armstrong. One of the Women of the Otherworld series, and a great paranormal read. Plus the heroine is more the age range we’re talking about, I think.
Late to the party, but here’s my 2 cents:
I do think you could cover some of the sub-genres and crossover genres via excerpts. This would also allow you to tailor what you cover once you see how the class members react to the earlier longer selections. On the other hand, I love the idea of each student choosing something from a booklist and then discussing the books in class. That way you could cover a lot of the breadth of the genre in one focused discussion.
If you do decide to cover some Romantica (I agree you should probably stay away from erotica, although Emma Holly’s books are very good at incorporating the HEA), I vote for Julia Ross or Pam Rosenthal. Paranormals are big right now, but so is romantic suspense. Suzanne Brockmann gets my vote in this category. And it might be fun to look at how authors jump categories.
It’s too bad the class is only an hour and a half long. With the PBS airing the Complete Jane Austen right now, showing one of those in class would be an interesting way of looking at the roots of the genre. But they run an hour and a half long, so no discussion time.
As for other topics, how about the evolution of the Romance Hero and Heroine from 1930 to the present? I saw something similar discussed via the Bond films recently, and it was really interesting and fun to watch.
I’m coming to this late, but I would second Years by LaVyrle Spencer. I loved that book! (I guess I’m at the low end of “a certain age” at almost 42?)
I was going to suggest the first of the Southern Vampire series by Charlaine Harris, Dead Until Dark, but someone else beat me to it, so I’ll just have to second it. Funny and fun, with a definite Southern twang.
As for Nora Roberts, I LOVE her book, Angels Fall. I told my husband when I was reading, “This is one of the best books I’ve ever read.” That said, if you used Remember When, you could compare the two parts and compare and contrast the writing styles and stylistic choices from when she’s writing as Nora and when she’s writing as J.D. Robb
I also second (or third) Tell Me No Lies by Elizabeth Lowell. Her Donovan series is also great (though she either never wrote about the last few siblings or I missed them somewhere because there’s only 3 books in the series so far that I know of).
make52—I probably could make 52 suggestions, but I’ll leave it 4 or so, since it’s late and I should have gone to bed an hour ago.
What about doing a bibliography according to subgenre? That way you could include all the great suggestions you don’t choose, and help students pick things to read in the future according to preferences.
Excellent suggestion!!
SEP – she’s such a great example of romantic comedy. My fav is Lady Be Good, set in Texas. The drug store scene made me laugh until I cried. Anyone who knows me in person knows that’s saying something 🙂
I second the earlier recommendation of Carla Kelly – it gives you a shorter-length book for planning flexibility and several of them take on real issues.
What about Kathleen Gilles Seidel? “Again” is set on the set (ha!) of a Regency soap opera and is fascinating for behind the scenes as well as for a fun plot. And several of her older ones would resonate as contemps for an older generation – Maybe Next Time is about sixties musicians, and After All These Years is about a Vietnam vet.
The only downside is that these are not always easy to find. You’d have to order online.
I add my voice to the chorus recommending Mary Stewart – the heroines will mostly have been born at the same time as the class members, roughly, so they should empathise. I think one of my favourites is “The Ivy Tree”, which is set in the North of England – not particularly exotic to me, but it will be to them ; )
And I’m 42, and I tend to skip or gloss over sex scenes, too. I am totally unshockable – I’ve read LKH and Anne Rice’s Beauty trilogy, for goodness sake – but I have never seen the point of them. In my eyes, sex is all well and good as a participant, but not so much as a spectator, and that’s how I feel when I read even a well written sex scene. It’s one reason I like the older romances so much. I was reading a Nora Roberts the other day and realised we’d got to about page 250 before they got into bed, and really that was fine because at least I knew the characters well by then. But I don’t see myself ever reading much more erotica, because – why? I would love to know what those who like it get out of it; is it female porn, serving the same physical purpose as male porn, or does it appeal to some mental erotic circuit that I am underutilising? Maybe the SBs could address this some time, if they haven’t already?!
I have to say that I am a bit surprised by the suggestion of du Maurier’s Rebecca, which I don’t think of as a romance, and the heroine of which is a total, dreary pain. The hero is pretty repellent too, as far as I remember – only read it once, probably more than 50 years ago, but it never struck me as a ‘romantic’ book in any sense of the word. If one wants the Gothic element because it illustrates one line of descent of the modern romance, going back to the Horrid Novels, then any Mary Stewart romantic suspense would be far better, with heroines who are centre-stage (and first-person – useful for discussing the pros and cons of first-person POV, which is seldom used these days in the romance genre, and is very difficult to write well), three-dimensional and admirably competent and determined.
Tal, I don’t think one needs to read Busman’s Honeymoon as a follow-up to Gaudy Night, any more than one needs to read the earlier books to get the impact of the resolution of the Wimsey/Vane relationship. The huge, ongoing element of conflict is laid out clearly in Gaudy Night, so that one needs no prior knowledge of the couple, and is debated in all sorts of ways. And it is at the end that the HEA is guaranteed.
No one has mentioned “Lady Gallant” by Suzanne Robinson, which, IMHO, is the best romance ever written (but I have about 50 second-best favorites). In fact, I don’t think you can claim to actually be a reader of romance until you’ve read this book.
Wow, bitches, this is so great. I’m getting ideas in my head about “Romance in the South.” There’s a strong RWA chapter in Raleigh, so I think it’ll be easy to do. So, probably one of Nora’s set in the south (I like Midnight Bayou as well, and I love the paranormal elements), as well as Virginia Kantra’s Home Before Midnight (set in NC by a NC writer), and maybe Claudia Danes (NC writer) for historical. And then I do like the idea of having them all pick a category and report back.
Thanks so much for helping me! I’ll be reporting about this class and the one I’m teaching now at Fayetteville State U (an HBCU) over on Teach Me Tonight.
Sarah and other Heyer fans-
I found out that the publisher Sourcebooks has started reissuing Heyer’s books as nice, easy to read trade paperbacks. As of right now, they only have _Cotillion_ and _An Infamous Army_ ready to go.
http://www.sourcebooks.com/cart/shopexd.asp?id=1392
I’m looking forward to seeing more of them.
Most of Heyer’s oeuvre has been reprinted over the last few years in trade-size paperback by Arrow Books: since many of these appear on the American Amazon site as well as Amazon UK, I assume they are also available there.
The covers are all taken from 19thC paintings of no great distinction, many of them not particularly appropriate in terms of costume.
🙂
Heyer of course – Cotillion, Arabella, Sylvester, Lady of Quality, Friday’s Child.
Second (or third?) Gone with the Wind – surely most of them will have already read it which will help but reading the book and discussing/studying it are different things so it could be a great class.
How about Maeve Binchy’s wonderful Circle of Friends – it’s probably her best, it doesn’t cross any boundaries when it comes to sex scenes and it’s got some very real and bittersweet romance in it. It’s set in the late 1950’s Dublin college scene as well as small-town Ireland so it could make for some very interesting compare-and-contrast exercises – what was dating like for them, what was college life like for them etc etc.
Sarah,
Spencer’s Morning Glory is an excellent novel. Nicest thing about it, the hero is an ex-convict and the heroine is a pregnant widow (bare feet and all). Yet their love story comes across as very real and believable.
The book was extremely well researched. My da read it when he was recuperating from cancer surgery at my place (he’s 81) and said that Spencer must have lived through WWII. (Too young for that to my knowledge.)
Must include Heyer, Venetia and Cotillion, both delightful, Cotillion is a lighter read, show in stock at Amazon. False Colours is also available, but much as I love GH, I hates me books about sucky twins.
And Mary Stewart created the romantic suspense genre. Agree Ivy Tree is probably the best, but This Rough Magic is the most readable.
Linda Howard, Open Season or Dream Man. Although Dying to Please does have one mild bondage scene!
Two that come immediately to mind are Envy by Sandra Brown for its setting in the south and My Summer with George by Marilyn French because the protagonist is an older woman who happens to be a romance author.
Consider Rosina Lippi’s contemporary romance, Tied to the Tracks, about a New Jersey film crew plunked into a small, Southern college town. Rather, it’s about filmmaker Angie and her past (and current?) romance with college department chair John. And it’s about Miss Zula Bragg, the revered and mysterious author about whom Angie is making a documentary. And it’s about a whole cast of characters, cleverly portrayed, and topics like adultery, racism and homosexuality. Oh, there’s lots going on in this book, and on top of it all, Rosina’s clever writing style makes this a very enjoyable read.
Tigress, I didn’t mean that Gaudy Night wasn’t complete in itself; I just meant that one really WANTS to see how the marriage works. Ideally, one should read the whole four-volume series dealing with the relationship (conveniently available now in a two-volume hardcover set from The Mystery Guild).
Mary Frances, I really dislike Suzanne Robinson because her heroes are such utter bastards. Kind of ironic, because I went out and bought all her books in one swell foop because I so loved Lord Meren, the hero of the mysteries set in King Tut’s Egypt that she writes as Lynda S. Robinson. The only one who writes nastier guys that I’ve read is Anne Stuart.
As for sex scenes, I’m with Alison; they just don’t turn me on. I much prefer what Andy Rooney described as “explicit mush.”
The Tigress and I recently persuaded the gang at The Lunatic Cafe for Romance Readers over on Delphiforums to discuss a Mary Stewart book. After much discussion, we selected five to be voted on, and Nine Coaches Waiting won. I don’t think the discussion was as successful as it could be, as many of those who read it (I think all at least a couple of decades younger than The Ancient Briton and The Early American who started it) didn’t care for it, at least partly because it DIDN’T have steamy sex scenes.
Incidentally, we both agreed that This Rough Magic was our favorite and The Ivy Tree our least favorite. We picked 9CW because the Tigress pointed out it was a superb example of the traditional Gothic (governess heroine, dark brooding aristocratic hero) transforming into the modern romantic suspense novel (capable and daring heroine who doesn’t trust the hero, despite her love, because he might be the one trying to kill her charge).
I read a lot of Mary Stewarts at school (I think our school librarian was a fan). She’s a very British/English writer. Do her romantic suspense novels convey well across the pond?
I quite liked Wildfire at Midnight.
JaimeK: I recently found several Victoria Holt novels in a USB and read them. They do not hold up at all well. In fact, if they are used in a literature course, it would have to be as an illustration of how weird romance novels used to be, back when heroines were TSTL (In one book the heroine suspects her husband of killing her father, but never confronts him about that, or about the fact that she thinks he’s unfaithful) and heroes were rapists (cf The Demon Lover – where TSTL decides she’s in love because he’s a man who takes what he wants !) Antispam word is saw95, Only another 91 Saw flicks to go, then.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this or not, but what about Whitney, My Love. That was my first romance and I tore thru it! It’s a great book and I think ladies of all ages would love it.
Also, anything by Sharon Shinn or P.C. Cast.
For a Nora selection, I think I’d go with NORTHERN LIGHTS or BIRTHRIGHT. Not sure why… just my mood at the moment. It’s hard to go wrong w/ any Nora, though. I personally prefer the straight romances and categories over the romantic suspense/woo ones, but they’re all good.
I’ve seen recommendations for her other stuff, all great BTW, but Jeanne Ray’s EAT CAKE is probably my favorite. It’s about a wife in the ‘sandwich’ generation, dealing with a husband in mid-life crisis, rebellious teenagers and even more rebellious parents – all living in the same house.
While I’ve come to believe bitterness and envy has made her batshit crazy IRL (I won’t bore you with my theory as to why), for southern romances, it’s tough to top Deborah Smith. As a rule I don’t read southern stuff or first person (hers is both), but she’s an exception for me. Dang, but that woman can weave a story that resonates indefinitely in one’s mind. THE CROSSROADS CAFÉ was one of the best books I read last year, and A GENTLE RAIN was pretty darned incredible too. Most of her stuff takes place in Georgia, while RAIN took place in northern Florida. However, for easier access you might want to go with two of her recent-but-before-she-was-dumped-from-her-publisher backlist, and go with SWEET HUSH or CHARMING GRACE. Both are delightful. They can be obtained in both HB and PB. The two newer ones are trade sizes from her private publisher, and harder to locate w/o shopping online. HUSH might be fun from a political angle… readers might recognize shades of Bill and Hillary in there. And in GRACE, there’s a big movie star/ business angle – think Stallone, or some other cartoonish over-the-hill action star.
Diane
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh brain overload. Stop it stop it!! Too many books, not enough time or money. Bitches, never, NEVER, in my life, have I come across such an exhaustive list of “must reads”. I don’t know if my wallet can support this. Not to mention my bookshelves (or lack thereof, specifically). Oh sweet merciful god.
*runs around in circles*
How can I have forgotten to mention Jane Heller, who writes funny romance novels about fortyish heroines who get it together? In Infernal Affairs, the heroine, a frump dumped by her husband with a career going downhill, accidentally sells her soul to the Devil and turns into a gorgeous success. But there’s a slight problem…
In Sis Boom Bah, two feuding sisters become rivals in love, get involved in murder, and wind up reconciling.
In Crystal Clear, the heroine dumps her life and her long-time, commitment-phobic guy and goes off to Sedona, where she encounters assorted wackos, one genuine Native American seer, and her sexy ex-husband.
She’s really good at relationships other than the romantic.
amount63—Hey! I thought I amounted to more than THAT!
De-lurking to add my vote for Heyer’s Cotillion. I actually felt anxious halfway through that I wasn’t going to get the ending I wanted – quite a feat in a genre that guarantees the HEA! She plays out the tension and silliness beautifully.
Also, Mary Stewart! I have a special fondness for The Moonspinners, although the Hayley Mills movie is atrocious. There’s just something about those spunky 1960s British girls in distress. I was shocked to learn, while taking a reader’s advisory class, that Mary Stewart was considered a romance author, and that I was therefore a romance reader! I had to completely recalibrate my snob-o-meter.
If you’re interested in romance novels set in the south, I’d suggest SEP’s “Ain’t She Sweet.” I wasn’t sure I’d like this one until I got into it a ways, because the characters are not really likeable at the beginning (they’re kind of reliving their high school relationships, and you know how mean high school kids can get). But as they grow and develop, it becomes a fascinating study in how people can improve and change as they get older. Plus a nice love story.
PS. Does the University have a distance learning program? Is there any way you can make this a distance learning course? This is the sort of course I’d love to take just for fun.
security word: zipper94—Hmmm … I think that I’ve read more than 94 scenes with zippers in my romance reading career!
Of course, Mary Stewart is classic – 9CW, This Rough Magic, Touch Not the Cat, Madam Will You Talk (gotta love a woman who can disable a car with her fingernail) and Airs Above the Ground. I’d list all her books, but she got less interesting in the newer ones.
Victoria Holt is worth reading for the sheer enjoyment of the TSTL quotient. No one’s allowed to write them that way any more and I almost miss those heroines.
antispam: girls39 – But are they smart, bitchy girls?