Dan Savage recently opined
quoted Joan Sewell and Sandra Tsing Loh as saying that women with sex drives as strong as men just didn’t exist.
My first thought was: should I strap a horn on my forehead, then? Because I can’t think of a single man I’ve slept with whose sex drives I didn’t match or exceed, and I’ve slept with a decent spread of age ranges—I’ve done guys 13 years older than me, and guys six years younger. In an ideal world, I’d have sex about once a day and twice on Sundays, but given time and energy constraints, once every couple days is much more realistic. In the ten years I’ve been enjoying the fizznuckin’, I can remember turning down the opportunity to have sex with boy du jour only a handful of times.
In short: I loves me some sex. Gimme!
“But wait!” you might cry. “Maybe you’re a statistical outlier. Averages are averages for a reason, silly rabbit, and your personal experiences do not invalidate the collection of data as a whole.” That’s as may be, but you know what? Most of my close girlfriends also have very high libidos. Out of all the women I know who’ve been willing to share details of their sex lives with me, I can think of only one who doesn’t have a libido as high as a man’s, and she’s an interesting case because she was sexually abused as a child.
So the question is: How the hell did I end up with such a band of horny broads as friends? Are we all statistical outliers?
Here’s what my friends and I have in common: we’re fairly young (the age spread goes from 22 to 35), and we’re all urban, sex-positive, progressive, middle-class, professional, mostly childless and very well-educated (some might even say over-educated). My friends tend to be hyperarticulate, slightly (or a whole lot) geeky and in full possession of a sense of humor.
Some of these factors have a direct impact on sex drive. F’rinstance, I’m thinking not having a child has a lot to do with higher-than-average sex drive I’m seeing. Childbearing is physically difficult on the woman, and God knows it fucks with her hormones. Drop a ton of exhaustion from taking care of a baby on top of that, not to mention housechores and a job, and bam: Libido-B-Gone. But even girlfriends of mine who have babies or young children had what seemed to be higher-than-average libidos before stress and exhaustion made a dent.
And age certainly affects sex drive, too; women supposedly peak some time in their late 20s and 30s, and the libido tends to gradually calm down with age. But I think there’s more going on than that. I think being young, middle-class, educated and sex-positive has a lot more to do with my girlfriends being Horny Broads, all tied in with sexual liberation, sexual attraction, sexual compatibility and mate selection.
See, for the first time in a long, long time, sexual attraction has become a legitimate factor for mate selection in women as well as men—in fact, for the first time in a long, long time, women (at least those in most Westernized countries) have a say in choosing their sexual partners. People born in the 70s on forward (late 60s, even?) grew up in different sexual spaces than previous generations. Sure, people nowadays still make a fuss about the word “vagina” being displayed on theater marquees and legions of people were scandalized by Janet Jackson’s prime-time nipple, but as a whole, we’ve made progress. The very fact we can make fun in an open forum of the the people who had a fit of the vapors because an attractive black woman exposed her boob is evidence of the fact. And to pick on a show mentioned in the Dan Savage column: much as I dislike Sex and the City for being a vacuous show obsessed with consumption (whether the items being consumed were designer shoes, designer martinis or designer’s cocks), the women were depicted as sexual beings, if still tied somewhat tiresomely to assorted sexual stereotypes and all the attendant baggage.
Sorry, got a bit derailed there. My point is (and yes, I do have one. Sort of): If you’re just not all that sexually attracted to your mate, and you’re not allowed avenues to fuck around with people you do find sexually attractive, what kind of effect would that have on your libido? I imagine it’d be pretty dampening.
But as msbunburyist pointed out to me while talking about this yesterday, sexual attraction is only part of the picture. Finding somebody sexy is all well and good, but telling your partner what you want? That’s difficult, y’all, even if you’re not exactly a shy, blushing virgin. Communicating what you want sexually, and being receptive to your partner(s)‘s communications regarding what they want sexually, is tricky. And this is where we enter the territory of sexual compatibility, which is where “OMG UR HOT” and “Hey, let’s do something about that, and let’s make it really stinkin’ GOOD” intersect. It’s a process, and it’s something you have to learn from somebody else or figure out on your own. I think my friends and I come from a generation of females who inhabit a social class and culture that encourages a certain degree of openness towards the issues surrounding sexual compatibility. And this in turn allows us to express and/or act on our sexual desires. We know what we want, we know how to get it, and most importantly, we’re willing to show our partner, which leads to better sex, and better sex leads to wanting more sex.
(How’s that for some sweeping generalization cakes for you, eh?)
Anyway, here’s what I think: my sample of friends seems so skewed because we’re openly horny broads. My theory is that there are many, many horny broads out there—more than people know or are willing to acknowledge. Not to say that there aren’t genuinely non-horny broads, because there are, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, and they no doubt make up a good chunk of the population. But I think there are two other classes of horny broads that are often conflated and confused with genuinely non-horny broads:
1. Closeted horny broads, who know they’re horny but don’t/can’t show it or act on it.
2. Dormant horny broads, who think they have low libidos but haven’t had the luck or opportunity to work out what will tap into their Reservoir of Horniness.
Membership in one category or another isn’t fixed in stone; an openly horny broad can become a closeted horny broad if she moves to a deeply sexually conservative culture, for example, or a dormant horny broad may discover after years and years of boring vanilla sex that she becomes a raging nympho when she’s allowed to tie up and whip her boys.
In my completely unscientific opinion, based on my completely unscientific samples and experiences, I’m willing to concede that men on the average have higher sex drives than women. But I honestly don’t think the differences are as drastic as what Dan Savage has made them out to be.
What do you think, O Bitchery?
What constitutes “sex drive”? Is it actual physical need, or is it psychological?
I have always always always, in my sexual relationships with both men and women, been the instigator of sex. Is it because I’m horny all the time? Or is it because I view sex as an important indicator of self-confidence? Do I need the sexing to reassure me that I am secure in the relationship? Or is it my coochie-governing chemistry going awry?
Sex is inextricably linked to power and feelings of self-worth, and I know I am not the only woman or man for whom this is true.
Thus:
The quantity of testosterone in a person is irrelevant to how often they’re going to demand sex.
I have a boyfriend with a very very very low sex drive. I want it every day, preferably several times in a day, but that would probably kill him. I’ve recently started a project to ensure that I get sex at least once a week. (I could tell you about it but then I’d have to kill you.)
We have managed to stay together nearly five years (starting when we were both 22 until now, when we are both 27) despite this, because it is not about sex, it is about having a good sturdy relationship. All my getting-laid machinations are done in fun, not actually out of desperation. (He buys me sex toys, which is very sweet of him. It’s a running joke.)
So, all that aside: Savage is an opinions columnist, and a very funny and very very gay one, and so his observations on female sexuality are likely to be more for amusement than for real scientific purposes.
Joan Sewell is a twit and that’s all I can manage to say about that. I am sick to DEATH of all these memoirs pretending to be social commentary. No, honey, that’s YOU that likes chocolate cake, not ME. Sorry. You said “women” when you meant to say “I”.
All the bad science in the world can’t cover up for the fact that there have been many myths about sex and which one predominates depends on the fad. I, too, took medieval studies; I, too, read De Secretis Mulieribus and that manual for hunting witches and all the rest of the venomous woman-hating claptrap about the sexually-predatory nature of females. It’s all myth. Bad humors, testosterone—hogwash. People are people and sex is more than chemicals.
And telling people that Science has Declared that they are Abnormal is really never any good for anyone, so please, society, stop with the telling me that my boyfriend would be horny all the time if he really loved me. That. Gets. OLD. And is complete bullshit.
Eeek!!! Just realized that it’s NOT clear in my comment that I rediscovered myself (and my sex drive!) a couple of years after I divorced the ROUS (aka ex). He’s my proof that sex by myself is Nth times better than bad sex. Heck, no sex is better than bad sex, as far as I’m concerned!
spamfoiler: congress55
Better Sex
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Devil’s Advocate here…
All living things are geared to reproduce, correct? So I’m idly pondering whether that could be a factor in why so many childless women have hight sex drives. Something along the lines of their bodies saying, “Hey! You haven’t fulfilled your biological imperative yet—hop to it!”
On the matter of horniness being dictated by testosterone (dillene’s comment), I beg to disagree. As far as I’m concerned, a helluva lot of it is in the mind. (Do hormones dictate our thoughts? Obviously chemistry affects our moods—i.e.,depression meds—but anyone here with hard data on hormones doing the same?)
I’m also with those who differentiate quality vs quality, as well as ‘wanting sex’ vs ‘having sex with a partner.’
On the anecdotal evidence front, my marriage completely killed my sex drive. For a long while I thought enjoying sex at all was a thing of the past—I blamed age, kids, exhaustion, depression, whatever. Then I rediscovered myself, and voilà ! Hello, horniness!
For the record: about to turn 41, two teenage kids.
Count me as one of the Chemically Oppressed Horny Broad.
Birth control has absolutely killed my libido, but I’m not going without it.
The pill made me f’n crazy. I hated everyone and everything around me. The ring doesn’t make me crazy, but it doesn’t make me the aggressor.
Not on birth control I was like a marauding amazon, wanting nothing more than food and a man to mount.
I’ve always had a healthy libido. Figured out how to do it myself at 12 and have had a satisfying sex life, for the most part, since then whether partnered or not.
The “for the most part” is rather recent. I went on the pill which actually created a lovely “in heat” time during the first week of the pills. It also effected my mood (along with several circumstantial mood changers) and I spun into a major depression. This will effectively kill the libido, of course. Then I went on zoloft. Great for the depression, not so great on the libido. But I’d rather have a lower libido than be suicidal, so there I am.
Still, my sex drive is still satisfactory. I’ve come to realize that it doesn’t have to be everyday to make me happy.
There was an interesting study done once that tested the difference between men and women’s ability to gauge whether they were aroused. Men were better able to do so. Women not so much…having to do with the fact that our genitalia isn’t quite so “out there.” Although, I imagine it also has to do with not enough quality time spent with our own Vajayjays.
Living in the Bay Area, I’m of course surrounded with folks who are very open about the lovely varieties of anything sex.
Hm… OK I’m a little alarmed. I got married and my sex drive flew the coop. The enjoyment of it left and whatnot. My better half is completely awesome. Best friend in the world. Funny, sweet kind etc. Worst thing he does is have farting matches with the dog.
Alas there still is no drive to have sex. I think I may be the woman that guy is talking about. I was always focused on other things in life while all my gal pals were like “OMG BOYZ!”. When the opportunity to canoodle came around I tried it, got bored, and stopped. Went back to doing my stuff (music, art, drama etc.).
Now that I’m older the same is true. He suggests and I think “Hey I could go do THIS or THAT instead… hm….” There’s just no drive to do the deed. Even while we’re trying to have the progency (which lemme tell ya is nigh on impossible when you only have the sexin’ maybe twice a month).
So there are women out there who just aren’t interested. My aunt’s friend never got into sex. She’s spent a happy life pretty much celibate.
Maybe it really comes down to how you were raised and how you feel about it.
…I’m asexual, and I *still* feel like crying bullshit on this one.
Quantity over quality bullshit. I’m multiorgasmic and he hits my buttons every time. It’s like heroine=I want more.
I also think it’s a frame of mind. We’ve been married for 13 years and it was not like this all the time. I had to cultivate it. To work on it. The effort paid off in spades. Also I think it has to do with the amount of kids I have . I HAD to make my marriage/relationship/sexuality a priority or I would have become a slobbering pile of goop that babbled about teletubbies all day long. I have girlfriends that are satisfied with less because their situations are not as drastic.
Also, I may be wrong, but I believe the Jewish mystics believe that a woman’s sex drive is far stronger than a mans, and therefore to be seen as a very serious need.
come42 -hehheh
Eva Gale, aren’t you saying that you get quality AND quantity? I was basically saying that I think women want *orgasms* as much as men do, but I think that their path to getting them is less obvious (or less other-person-directed) than men’s because giving a woman an orgasm is harder than giving a man an orgasm. But you and your partner got to the point where you do get an orgasm from sex with another person every time.
I usually think of this men-want-it-more stuff as being related to the single life, and men actively seeking just sex more than women do, so I guess that’s what I meant.
I’m going to wade boldly into TMI territory here, because several different people have brought up the issue of orgasm, and it’s one of my hot-button (hur hur hur) issues.
Nobody has ever successfully given me an orgasm. And it wasn’t until last year that I was able to come while having sex with somebody. Despite all this, sex is intensely pleasurable for me. Coming is nice, and ideally I get to have my cookies with every session, but given the choice between having a solo orgasm or having good sex, I’ll choose the good sex, every time.
Most people I know have a difficult time grasping this, however—especially men, who seem more focused on orgasm as the ultimate goal of sex than women tend to be.
“Despite all this, sex is intensely pleasurable for me.”
When my husband and I first got together we had sexual problems and the orgasm didn’t happen for me every time during straight sex. This was a big problem for my husband, who saw this as a failure on his part, and he just wouldn’t accept that I had a good time regardless.
The problem turned out to be an anatomical irregularity of mine that caused him not to be able to hit my buttons during sex and often resulted in his penis getting banged by a pelvic bone, which was no fun for him either. We finally figured out hat it just required an adjustment of angles and we were all good.
At the risk of sounding like I’m talking to Ken Starr, it’s important to define what sex means to each person you talk to. What I’d want to know, is if you count every time a man thinks a random, “I’d like to do her” thought or pops a casual boner that it’s considered in the realm of “sex drive.” And what’s the equivalent for women? Do our random, “wow, he’s hawt” thoughts count as our sex drive? Does a woman’s desire for physical closeness that doesn’t involve PIV intercourse count as the “drive for sex?”
Sex is more than the sum of its parts.
Good point, Xandra. I was just discussing how to define what sex is with someone earlier today, and this is what I wrote:
And for me, personally, my libido is defined as as how often I want to have sex and/or how often I want an orgasm (whether or not sex is involved).
Man I got sick and slept through all this, bummer! My husband can’t even approach my sex drive, I’d like it every day or more, and he likes it once a month (I swear to god) maybe. He’s just not interested! He was at one time, but I think it was just the novelty value, ie trying it out. Sadly, most of my sex life is in my dreams – being a fairly lucid dreamer comes very much in handy here and my toy collection next to the bed. He is quite used to my taking care of business with him right there, and it does nothing for him.
I came across that article myself this past week, both of them actually, and was kinda peeved. If there is sarcasm there, it is rather too subtle, in my opinion. In my research into this topic over the years, *sigh* yes years, I have learned that many many women have this trouble, it is by no means rare. I don’t really like to see what I consider to be the myth of all men wanting it all the time being perpetuated.
(I’m not really commenting on the Sandra Tsing Loh article, I read it while very sick and not very coherent, and apparently got the wrong message from it).
This discussion reminded me of…oh, what do they call those tv specials that aren’t documentaries, but more or less explain a scientific study? It was one of those…
Anyway, it was a sex study conducted on a college campus where a guy approached various girls, told them he had noticed them in class, thought they were attractive, and invited them to have sex. Not a date, just straight into a sexual proposition. All of the girls said no, with varying responses of “what a pig!” thrown in for good measure.
The sexes were reversed with a girl approaching guys and guess what the difference was in the responses?
If that “proves” anything, I think it speaks to the quantity vs. quality thing people have already mentioned here. I’ve had friends who are an exception to this, but in general it seems like women have to have a whole lot more checks in checky-boxes (aka “standards”) before they’ll consider someone as a sexual partner. Which is not to say they don’t want sex at that moment, they just don’t want it *with that person*. That element of women turning down opportunities for sex probably feeds into the idea that there’s such a large discrepancy between male and female sex drives.
My sister and I used to have a motto when single and hitting the bars: “we’re easy but choosy”. I still think that describes me, even though I’m married and my husband has been my only sexual partner for several years now. What that means to me now is that I rarely turn down an opportunity for sex (I rarely get the chance to initiate, though, ‘cause my husband covers that from about the first word in the morning to the last word spoken at night), and when I do it’s because I don’t think it’s going to be as satisfying as it could be. (TMI territory perhaps, but I think most long term couples learn to read the signs on things like their partner *thinking* they’re ready to rock your world, but not actually being as into the game as they could be.)
As a final, tangential thought, people have already talked about how medication, children, etc. affect their libido. I want to add one more thing that I’ve noticed has a big effect on mine: exercise. I definitely think about sex more during periods when I’m exercising regularly and more or less feeling good all around. I thought I’d seen/heard somewhere that regular exercise increases testosterone, which could be why. Or if that’s just a bullshit factoid, it could just be that good overall health leads to a good overall sex drive.
Here’s the message these tins of frosting send to men: She would put your dick in her mouth if only it tasted less like cock and more like cupcakes.
Um… yeah, I have to say, in my own personal opinion? Cupcakes taste better than cock. Sorry, guys.
laughing like hell @ that line
I find this debate amusing because it focuses on the polarities, low vs. high.
What about us gals with medium-level libidos? Where do we fit into the debate?
I like sex but don’t need it everyday. Once a week is good enough. Also, my desire has fluctuated through the years, sometimes burning bright, sometimes dimming when I had to focus on other matters in life. Whatever the level, however it manifests, it’s all good—as long as you’re honest with yourself and your partner(s).
Stats: 38, long-term relationship with boyfriend, no kids, and aspiring romance writer (and yeah, job stress has a way of zapping the ol’ drive.)